Cover shot on BabyTalk magazine causes outrage.
In this country, we want our breasts to be large, full, and barely covered by skin-tight Hooters' t-shirts. What we DON'T want, apparently, is to see pictures of babies doing what babies have done since the dawning of mankind: nursing at the nipple of their mother. The outrage over a cover shot on BabyTalk magazine for an article on breastfeeding is hysterically ironic.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Jen
In response to post #29
Dawn, you seem to believe that poverty is the result of laziness or some character flaw. In actuality, the majority of children from low income families have parents who are employed. With the minimum wage at $5.15, many of these parents have to work two or more jobs in order to stay afloat. With such hectic schedules, and workplaces that don't accomodate mothers who have to pump milk, it is understandable why many low-income mothers don't breastfeed.
77 - Martin Lav
Jen, you must be be uneducated or something not to understand Dawn's point......SHE was able to do go back to work and "manage" after all and it's not her fault that the poor are uneducated and they can only work minimum wage jobs that don't allow them to carry a suckling infant around all day......
#75 the problem with your theory is that these high and mighty liberal types that have little or NO tolerance for someone doing the absolute best for their child, encourage the nursing well beyond the kids natural weaning age. These are the same type that push their kids around in a stroller until their 7 or 8, let their kid carry their blankie and such their thumb because they don't want to discipline their kids.
WaWaWa...
78 - Snarkattack
Gosh, I actually think the image is beautiful - it's not just about mum being a fast food outlet, the whole breastfeeding thing, but about bonding, and love.
I recall in one of my favourite films, 'Tampopo' (it's a Japanese film), it ends with a mother sitting on a park bench breastfeeding her child. The camera zooms in, closer and closer focussing on the child sucking, with its eyes closed. It strikes me as being really peaceful, and pure.
Hey, I'm mentally ill! And most certainly not sexually repressed. Or, at least, I wouldn't freak out over a mother breastfeeding a child. We're mammals, we're supposed to suckle our young, and as you point out, it's actually really good for the child. Geez, it's not like the kid is thinking about sex while suckling!
Mind you, I didn't think of the socio-economic factor involved here - I merely assumed that the reason many women choose not to breastfeed for too long is that it's too time-consuming, or, even painful (at least, that is what my mother told me - she stopped because it hurt).
79 - RedTard
"Dawn, you seem to believe that poverty is the result of laziness or some character flaw."
Then she's quite enlightened because that's a fact.
80 - Lady Dragonfyre
For all you ladies who breast feed, I'm curious about something.
I have two nieces. The oldest was bottle-fed, the younger was breast-fed.
When my younger niece was breast-feeding, my sister couldn't stand to close to another woman because my niece, if she was hungry or even nervous, would grab for the other woman's boobs. She did this ALL the time! She even made a bee-line for me once. We were at the beach, and I was wearing a bathing suit. Before I knew what was happening, the little rascal suddenly grabbed my bikini top and pulled it halfway over my head. I just fell face down in the sand and tried to fix my top while my sister laughed hysterically. Several teenage boys whistled and cat-called. I was 13 at the time, and completely mortified.
Even after she was weaned, she grabbed for other people’s boobs for comfort, just as another child might suck his thumb or carry around a security blanket. She kept up this habit until she was about 4 or so. At that point it was nearly impossible to take her out in public, as she’d suddenly run over to other women and try to grab their boobs.
My bottle-fed niece never exhibited this type of behavior " she sucked her thumb and had a blankie instead.
Have any of you ladies experienced anything like this??
81 - harbeas
Staci, it is women who need the therapy if they have a problem with a man being turned on by the sight of a breast. Seems to be that is a perfectly normal reaction by the male species. Accept it!
Otherwise he probably is a homosexual.
82 - Lisa
"mighty liberal types" - I am sure if I reversed that statement and said that sexually oppressed conversatives are the reason breastfeeding rates in the US are atrocious, you or someone else here would be up in arms. (not that I believe that, but for the sake of agrument....)
I agree that child should be the one to lead the weaning process and that in most cases, a 7-8 nursing is doing so with the influence of the parents. However, if they are that crunchy, they are probably against the use of a stroller. :)
83 - Dawn
I have known many breastfed children and not once have I noticed a child who grabbed at anyone's boobs, including those of their mother. I would give a serious smackdown if one of my children "grabbed" at my breasts. Mutual respect should be taught early on.
84 - Lady Dragonfyre
I agree. Unfortunately, the behavior was encouraged by family members who thought it was funny. >:( I spoke out several times, especially after the beach incident, but I was told to "chill out."
85 - Victor Plenty
Maybe the full size image makes the situation more clear, but looking at the small digital reproduction of the picture from the magazine cover, it could just as easily be an elbow the baby's mouth is on.
Now wouldn't that be a hoot?
86 - Christopher martin
For a man's perspective on this issue, see Noodad.com. Basically, a breast is a breast. And there ain't nothing wrong with that.
87 - John Guilfoil
I think one of American culture's biggest problems is the attempt to over-sensitize ourselves to nudity.
88 - Martin Lav
"I would give a serious smackdown if one of my children "grabbed" at my breasts."
Nuff said.
"would grab for the other woman's boobs"
and some kids grab other kids bottles. Yeah I hear this is epidemic in breast fed kids. One even tried to grab my man-boobs one time. This is the biggest reason we started to replace breast milk with infamil and breasts with silicone in this country.
"Dawn, you seem to believe that poverty is the result of laziness or some character flaw."
"Then she's quite enlightened because that's a fact."
Maybe we should have free breast feeding stations in poor rural areas, where these poor uneducated hill billies can bring their kids in and let them suckle on the teat of an educated liberal. We could even have the federal government fund it....
89 - Rodney Welch
That cover is the definition of irony: it sends out one message by professing it's opposite.
The fake, family-values message is "Women should breastfeed; it's beautiful, natural, this is what breasts are for, what Dawn said, blah, blah, blah."
But the REAL message, the one the photographer and art editor are sending with a certain winking, subversive wit is much more cynical: tits sell magazines, and the bigger, the better.
This discussion is obvious proof of the fact. How else are you going to get mass culture interested in a publication called Baby Talk?
Tits are an immediate attention-getter, and Baby Talk recognizes it as much as Maxim or Playboy or Dawn Olson -- who made sure her strident, screaming defense of all things natural and motherly was wrapped up with a suitably lurid, lookee-lookee title. Heaven knows I wouldn't have clicked on it otherwise.
90 - Martin Lav
That might be your own "implants" talking.
91 - Jen
haha! this was refreshing and hilarious. thank you for joining my side on this!
92 - Marilyn Barnicke Belleghem
What an interesting collection of opinions that totally reveal the maturity and developmental stage of the writers. Some adults enjoy suckling and having their heads on a breast. Is there jealousy hiding behind the criticisms?
93 - Victor Plenty
I still think it's just an elbow until someone manages to prove otherwise, as I stated previously in my critically acclaimed and award-winning Comment #85.
94 - Martin Lav
Yeah and that look on the baby's face is not contentment, but more like "your kidding me right? I'm supposed to suck on this thing?"
95 - Silas Kain
Oh, Martin. I said those exact words once. I won't say in what context. (Hush your mouth, Jet!)
96 - Martin Lav
I'm surprised you could speak with that thing in your mouth....
97 - lori
Which begs the question, Why is that photo on the cover of a magazine called "Baby Talk"?
98 - Martin Lav
Maybe it's because if they could talk with their eyes, that baby would be winking...
99 - Nattybug
The only people who have a problem with breastfeeding seem to be those who have never done it. I breastfed both of my kids (and in public no less) with pride despite the rude comments and nasty looks. I plan to do it again in the near future, as well. I have even been told to do it in the bathroom, but I just responded with (I wouldn't eat in there, why should my baby?) I think a baby nursing at the breast is nothing short of beautiful. I applaud all the mothers who persevere in feeding their babies in this most natural of ways.
100 - Les Slater
Dawn #71
"As for the poor and uneducated being inferior I have zero tolerance for people not doing the best they can for their kids. What fucking excuse does a person have to drag their kids down just because they choose to live life in an unpleasant manner."
What an arrogant, ignorant, self-serving, middle class comment.
You have the luxury of being "an avid reader of high quality tabloid fare, enjoys gardening and scatological skywriting." and who knows what else.
You seem to have leisure time. Many working women get low pay and have to do more than one job.
In addition woman are faced with doing most, if not all, household chores and child rearing. The lower on the economic rung have the most burden in this respect.
101 - Dawn
Yes Les, I suggest you believe everything you read, lest you be called a gullible fool.
I may be middle class, but I am hardly arrogant. I can't say I am none of the other canards you assigned me.
102 - Les Slater
Dawn,
I read this whole thread including your post.
Despite your protestations such as to Martin in #61, you make comments such as in #30:
"And truly, what kind of mother doesn't have some time to sit, relax and nurse their child on occasion?"
Yes, what kind of mother?
Your #71 lays it out. Sarcasm? I don’t think so. Sounds rather arrogant.
Originally, when I parsed the first sentence of the paragraph from #71 which I quoted, I saw some ambiguity but that ambiguity could not detract of the essence of the whole paragraph.
Les
103 - Dawn
Les, you clearly don't get it. And by "it" I mean anything and everything.
And the irony that is so rich from you calling me arrogant might just be enough to feed a third world country.
Sorry bub, but your fingerpointing on me is a wasted effort. I am well-aware of my parental flaws, but I sure as shit know that I would do the best for my child regardless of my economic status.
Since you know NOTHING of my upbringing and background, I think you better back the fuck off acting like you can judge me personally. Making broad and obvious generalizations about groups of people who I feel don't live up to some pretty basic standards that we all as humans should agree on, is totally different than you telling me I am arrogant.
I am many things, plenty of which are bad, but I am not arrogant. You don't know me, so don't pretend that you do.
104 - Candy
I can't believe there are still people who get grossed out by a baby breastfeeding. It's sad really. I'm grossed out by the thought of thick nasty smelly infant formula, that's what grosses me out. I mean, formula was created for emergencies, when a baby can't get human milk - but people have come to think that it's just as good. Really sad. Everyone who has a baby should at least give breastfeeding their best effort - read up on it, take a class, join a support group... I don't think it's any more a choice than where the baby will likely come out. (of course in Brazil, you can just have a C section if you don't want to ruin your vagina)
105 - Les Slater
Dawn #103
"Making broad and obvious generalizations about groups of people who I feel don't live up to some pretty basic standards that we all as humans should agree on,"
So, is this the way you really feel? It fits very well with your comment in #71. So, your #101 was just blowing smoke.
I do not know you well. I have only read a bit in this blog. Are you arrogant? Maybe not in general but you do persist in 'Making broad and obvious generalizations about groups of people'.
My replies, as well as others, have been to rebut the ‘obvious[ness]' of your generalizations.
I have read your #61 which in part says: "I was not saying that all poor women who don't breastfeed are lazy or anything else. My point (and this is statistical and empirical data) is that by not nursing they are doing themselves and their children a great disservice ...... In a roundabout way, I was trying to stick up for the poor and uneducated, because they are the group most likely to benefit from breastfeeding."
It is your concise generalizations such as are in your #71 that belies your #61. You do BLAME the poor.
Like I say, I don't really know you but in many ways you are like a liberal. At least you have much in common with them.
From your original post: "As with many bad things in our society, I blame the religious fundamentalists. And Mel Gibson."
Blaming Mel Gibson is pure nonsense. You also do not attempt to justify blaming the 'religious fundamentalists'. Typical liberal.
You know what they say about liberals? One mugging and they become conservatives. There is a grain of truth to that. Your post and comments show that when you are challenged you fall back to the party line, e.g., #61. Other times you let your real feelings blurt out such as your #71. You defend your real feelings in #103.
106 - Rodney Welch
Actually, that's not what they say about liberals, because liberals get mugged as much as anyone and it doesn't neccessarily change their thoughts on social justice or the plight of the poor. With many, it only deepens their beliefs.
Some years ago, Irving Kristol helped found the neoconservative movement. When asked for a definition, he said that a neoconservative is "a liberal who has been mugged by reality."
107 - Dawn
Les,dude, I made a valiant attempt to express myself, but clearly you are denser than lead and completely humorless, therefore I give up, as I have better things to do with my time, like spend it with my kids and make broad sweeping, though insightful, generalizations about various groups of people.
Have a nice day, but please feel free to go argue with someone who gives a crap.
108 - Lady Dragonfyre
You seem to have leisure time. Many working women get low pay and have to do more than one job.
What about pumping the milk into bottles to use later? My sister was dirt poor and working two jobs to get by. She was only making around $9 an hour, she had another kid to feed, and was a single mom. She rarely had the time to nurse her baby whenever she was hungry, so she'd fill up bottles in advance. I don't know HOW she did it all.
I think apathy and ignorance play a significant role. However, ignorance and apathy know no class boundaries, and they CERTAINLY don't recognize educational levels.
Just my $.02.
109 - chantal
Dawn....great article!! i can't possibly go through all of these comments...some are just plain ridiculous.
But I do have a few comments:
re#80...Lady Dragonfyre--I nursed my youngest until she was 21 months, and for a long time afterwards, she would still stick her hand up my shirt--for comfort, especially if she was tired or cranky. She even did it to my mom a few times. She's 3 1/2 now and still tries to put her hand in my shirt once in a while, but as she grows more independent, she's beginning to stop. All of this is perfectly normal and a healthy behavior....shes a very well adjusted, normal and happy child....and cute too!
#95-Silas....I almost peed my pants, I laughed so hard.
and #108 LDF---excellent point.
110 - Les Slater
Ms. Dragonfrye #108
I am no expert on child nutrition but do believe that breast-feeding is best for the child for many reasons.
I also don't think the question of breast-feeding is totally an economic issue. The sociology of the health of evolving society, and how this is differentiated along economic strata, is a complicated one.
Exhaustion is one factor, education is another, and Madison Ave's tentacles can’t be far from the surface either.
The maturity of the mother, whether she was prepared for motherhood, or even wanted a child, are certainly factors.
The polarization of society around the issues of sex education, safe sex, pregnancy prevention measures and the woman’s right to choose abortion are all part of this.
There is also the deterioration of education in public schools.
The effects of all this weigh most heavily on the working class women.
To say "What fucking excuse does a person have to drag their kids down just because they choose to live life in an unpleasant manner."
They choose? Just read the language here. What fuckin' arrogance!
$.02 worth? You undervalue your contribution.
My wife worked, breast-fed and used the pump. And yes, there were occasions where breast-feeding was in public.
111 - Ashtyn
What did people expect to see on the cover of BabyTalk Magazine? Seems like the perfect place to have a naked breast on the cover, if you ask me.
People that are anti-breastfeeding are just an odd bunch. It's one of the healthiest things you can do for your child and an excellent bonding experience.
If people can't handle seeing such things perhaps they should go back in their caves and play with themselves...in the dark, of course.
112 - Emily
Jade philosopher said:
"Don't forget - defecating, urinating, and procreating are all natural, normal, and necessary, too!"
Why yes, they are! And isn't it strange that we allow babies to defecate and urinate in their diapers in public. Newsflash to you - we make certain concessions for babies because they're BABIES, and can't just "hold it" or "wait an hour until lunch". When they need to eat, they need to eat NOW.
113 - nugget
I'm not going to repeat how I misread that title.
yrwlcm
114 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I cannot believe that anybody wuld make a fuss over that magazine cover. And mind you that this is comment #114 here on BC!
Will no one see the dawn?
115 - mrsLolly
For the exhibitionists among us:
plan ahead--PUMP!
*You can pretend all you want - but it IS uncomfortable for everyone around you to whip your boob out in public while your infant suckles. I made it a point to feed my baby before i went to eat and had a bottle on hand just in case. Newsflash-i fed her before i went shopping and had a bottle on hand (again, just in case).
Yes there are emergency ocassions where the bottle spills or you didn't plan on being gone for so long: excuse yourself to the car for 20 minutes and put on some classical music so your baby can relax.
Remember - it is about the health benefits, not to make things easy for an unprepared mommy. Feeding a baby a bottle is a very wonderful bonding experience for daddy too...so he can feed for once while you eat a meal in peace!
*As for the breast on the cover? I agree w/the post about the free publicity...lol. I'd rather not have it on the cover--i'd rather just see a cute pic of a baby, but i'm certainly not outraged.
*Most studies show that anything beyond a year is not nearly as beneficial to children. It's time for little Timmy to learn how to drink out of a sippy cup and stop grabby at mommy!! Once they get lots of teeth and start demanding "nunnys" ....hello Gerber!!!
And to all of you who missed the tongue-in-cheek tone of "I blame it on Mel Gibson" maybe you should read other blogs where you get the humor!
116 - Dominick
You know, I am not one for attachment parenting. I think when a child reaches a certain age they need to give up the tit. However, my partner and I have talked at length about breast-feeding any future children we have and she and I both agree breast milk is best, especially for young babies.
I think it is not just breastfeeding that is viewed as gross these days. We have really become a society so locked up and repressed that any form of nudity is seen as disgusting. We are going backwards from the freedom of "Free Love" and seeing beauty in things that are actually quite natural.
If we look back at Ancient times and civilizations, its seems they were much more progressive. They proudly displayed nude artwork, statues, and it is even said that Socrates used to walk around nude because that was an acceptable practice.
Ultimately, we have taken the beauty out of the human body. Now, I am not recommending we all strip down and start walking around au natural in the tradition of the Ancients. However, when we see a breast (perhaps my favorite of the female anatomy) we need to stop acting like Michael Jackson being caught with his pants down and his hand on a little boy's willy and start acting like mature individuals who can appreciate that which fed us and nourished us back when we needed it the most.
117 - larry
i havnt seen this come up.women have told me that they have erotic feelings while breas feeding.this plus a little exhibitionism thhrown is why they do this in publiic. hey,everybody ,see what a wonderful mom i am.
118 - Victor Plenty
Some characters on Seinfeld report erotic feelings while eating pastrami. Does that mean eating pastrami in public should be outlawed as lewd and lascivious?
Clearly "larry" couldn't be bothered to reach for the Shift key; perhaps he was typing with just one hand because he found his own argument so highly stimulating.
Normal healthy people will recognize his argument is tiny and limp.
119 - Snipe
Just another uneducated American male posting here. As best as I can tell, breasts are specifically designed in mammals to create and deliver milk to offspring.
Anyone imparting added sexual connotation to simply SEEING a fraction of a breast doing what it is designed to do should get a little professional help.
We went through this in the West with Victorian era prudishness, when some people found ANKLES overly sexual. You know what? Sensibility took hold and we got over it. I think the same thing needs to happen here.
You can make any thing and any individual body part sexual in your mind. (Some people call them fetishes). What you invent in your head is your issue, not mine.
120 - Jen
In this blog its mentioned that 98% of Scandinavian mothers breastfeed. This is most likely due to these countries' progressive maternity leave programs. For example, in Sweden, a woman gets 18 months maternity leave, receiving 90% of her salary for the first 12 months, and the standard maternity leave rate for the remainder. In order to increase the rate of breastfeeding in the U.S. the proper support systems for mothers need to be in place. Criticizing women who live below the poverty line really won't accomplish anything.
121 - French
I agree with most of your article, but what's the point in making insulting comments like "the French are half-assed". I won't play your game and insult americans ...
For the % of breast feeders in France :
45,6% in 1995
46,4% in 1996
48,8% in 1997
48,3% in 1998
50% in 1999
52,3% in 2000
54,5% in 2001
56,2 % in 2002
You could still say that those figures are low compared to other countries, but at least they keep increasing, and that's a good point.
122 - Martin Lav
NOTE: WEBSTERS DEFINITION OF ARROGANCE:
I just have to point out a misinterpretation of the facts stated in comment #18. Actually you are completely backwards Jen, many of the women cited as below the poverty line are also unemployed WIC recipients, the reason that educated and well-off women breastfeed at a higher rate is because they are more informed of the benefits of breastfeeding, take part in pre-natal care and therefore more inclined to do what's healthiest for their child.
-Dawn
123 - Chrissy
Oh, thank you, Dawn. I have recently become an accidental lactivist after a friend of mine was asked to "cover up" after trying to get her fussy 3-month-old son to nurse at a local grocery store. Yes, perhaps there was a little bit of incidental flashage, but so what? And this is in Portland, OR, which is a pretty progressive town and has one of the highest breastfeeding initiation rates in the country.
Why can't we moms who insist on nursing in public just cover up? Well, forgetting the fact that some babies just won't tolerate it, it just perpetuates the idea that breastfeeding is shameful and shouldn't be seen by the general population. Plus it's beyond difficult to get a fussy baby latched on while trying to keep a blanket over your shoulder while said baby is screaming and trying to pull it off...
Until baby bottles are banned in public (after all, those nipples don't look all that different from the real thing), I'm not going to feel too bad for the people who ask us to cover up because they don't think seeing a nursing baby is "appropriate". After all, how are people going to get comfortable with it until they see it on a regular basis?
124 - Dawn Dawn
Hey French, with all the French who smoke, I'd just as soon they not breastfeed. I don't like France. Sorry, as an entity they really have sucky policies. I am sure there are lots of cool French people though. Maybe you are even one of them. But your French leaders and Jew-hating history are reprehensible.
125 - Nancy
The French are a marvelous people. I think they're peachy, and if you don't go over there with an Ugly American attitude, they usually don't reciprocate with a Nasty French ditto. I mangled the language, massacred verbs & tortured adjectival endings past endurance, and those dear people just smiled, prompted me along, and then went the extra mile to help me find what I wanted, etc., and then some. I only met one louse, and he was actually Italian. Show just a tiny interest in things Francaise, and they respond with loads of hospitality, kindness, and good will. Vive les Francaise! Also I didn't notice any more people smoking over there than do here. They're just a little cleaner about ditching their ciggarette butts than we are, usually being careful to put them in the public recepticles provided instead of pitching them around left & right like we American slobs tend to.