now I know I'm not racist like Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly... but these run-ins make me think? Am I a little racist? Is it unconscious racism? Are we all a little racist whether we like it or acknowledge it or not?
I have to be honest, I was initially just going to post this on my own little blog. With about 15 hits a day, it is almost a rhetorical dialogue. However, with some courage of self discovery and a few beers... I throw this out to the masses. I understand we have roughly 15,000 unique visitors coming and going weekly, so I am intimidated. I accept your judgment, and hope to stimulate some decent dialogue if nothing else.
*oh, and I wasn't getting a pinky ring (doy). I was just trying to throw my wife off the track as she sometimes peeks in on my blog.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Mark Edward Manning
Lono: "I have no problem with blacks, they are not different people, this isn't even an issue. But... what if they have a problem with me?"
That could very well be the case, as Martin Luther King's (and even Malcolm X's) words are lost on them. We are seeing a phenomenon where blacks are free to enter white neighborhoods - as they should be, and nothing wrong with this - but whites are threatened if they enter black neighborhoods (or assumed, if they are large white guys, to be undercover narcs or cops). In other words, it's largely the reverse of the discrimination aimed at blacks before the civil-rights movement.
One question I have that some may brand me a racist for, but I don't care: Why do some black dudes walk down the street with hoods up and sporting a menacing look - and any security-conscious white or Asian who dares to cross the street to avoid them is accused of racism! I can't stand that mindset. If you want acceptance, dress and look more respectably; and if you want insist on living up to the stereotype, then you will be looked upon with suspicion and fear.
2 - Shark
Manning opens mouth; inserts foot.
So much ignorant, mindless blather -- so little time to counteract it.
Fer Starters:
"...if you want insist on living up to the stereotype, then you will be looked upon with suspicion and fear."
Message: Try not to 'live' up to Manning's stereotypes. 'kay?
'Kay.
Oy.
========
RE:
Manning's "reverse discrimination" ie "white neighborhoods" vs "black neighborhoods" --
and
Lono's 'fear in Dallas'
It ain't about color, boyz, it's about extreme poverty and the crime, hopelessness and helplessness that often accompanies it.
Extreme poverty is often related to race in Amerika, although poverty knows no boundaries -- except of the gated-community kind.
====
BY THE WAY:
We're all 'racists'. The key to the game is recognizing that and overcoming it.
========
PPS: I wouldn't go to Dallas if Jesus were healing the sick at an all-you-can-eat hoe-down. It's a cement cesspool more dangerous than Baghdad at 3 a.m.
And, I might add, the perfect epitome of the New Wonder City created by Rich White American GOP Bible Thumping Capitalist Pigs.
Irony, that.
NOT.
3 - Mark Edward Manning
You know, if I didn't know this was you, Shark, I'd have assumed it was MacDiva.
I live in a very diverse London neighborhood, so I know what I speak about. The area is not poor, but it is not affluent either; it's sorta in the middle (lower middle-class, let's say). And this is England - no horrible Republicans to blame bad attitudes on.
All I was saying was, why do some blacks live up to the attitude and then complain, "Everyone hates me. MUST be the color of my skin!" That may be true for some people, but I'm not one of them, thank you.
I was friends with an African - obviously, the friend was black - and the African once said how little tolerance she had for American blacks given their attitude. Gonna call her a racist??? Or did she simply see that they are taking no interest in school or studies. Education is the key. Granted, bad parents and morally vacuous role models are a factor, but if you want to make it, you need to put some effort into it.
Sorry for being an evil capitalist pig, but I don't have much tolerance for those who permanently live in Victimhood. Anyone can make it in America, or any capitalist society, but I wouldn't expect an overemotional liberal (a redundancy, that) to understand this.
4 - JR
I live in a very diverse London neighborhood, so I know what I speak about.
I'm sorry, how does that make you an expert on race relations in America?
We are seeing a phenomenon where blacks are free to enter white neighborhoods
I lived in L.A. for five years and I saw something entirely different.
5 - Steve S
Education is the key. Granted, bad parents and morally vacuous role models are a factor, but if you want to make it, you need to put some effort into it.
What does a comment on the education that African Americans have/get, have to do with the original blog questions about well built men being perceived as athletes or groups of African American men hanging out in restaurants? White kids hang out in shopping malls, hence the term mall rats. Hanging out has nothing to do with education, it is almost a rite of passage growing up.
Sorry for being an evil capitalist pig, but I don't have much tolerance for those who permanently live in Victimhood.
WTF? Did somebody get their answers to posts mixed up and this go somewhere else?
6 - Dan
"WTF? Did somebody get their answers to posts mixed up and this go somewhere else?"
I think he was referring to comment #2, where Shark seemed to suggest that Dallas is more dangerous than Baghdad at 3am and that "Rich White American GOP Bible Thumping Capitalist Pigs." are somehow responsible.
7 - Steve S
oh, I wasn't sure. In his comment he said 'all I was saying....' and he was referring to comment 1, which was before Shark said anything. I guess then he switched topics with a new paragraph.
I do agree with the sentiment of Shark, if not the verbiage, that RWAGOPBTCP are responsible for the disappearance of the middle class and the continued ghettoization of much of urban America. Not everybody that is poor is a lazy slouch who cries victim. Actually few fit that description.
8 - Paul Roy
You don't sound like a racist to me, and I don't know why you accuse Limbaugh and O'Reilly of being racist. I don't know where you are from but the U.S. has definately gone racist happy over the last couple of decades. Even the most innocent things are deemed racist. I have witness much, much more racism from blacks against whites, asians, etc, than whites against blacks. I think white society, as a whole, has bent over backwards for blacks with affirmative action, quotas, etc, which are all reverse descrimination if you ask me. As far as your Dallas senerio, your actions were just common sense, not racist. Who do you think has to fear the most: a couple of white guys wandering into Anacostia, DC, or Harlem in the middle of the night, or a couple of black guys wandering into a white neighborhood? The truth of the matter is, blacks are only about 15% of the U.S, population, but they commit the vast majority of crimes especially violent crimes. Oh that's right, the're victims of society. Check the FBI crime stats, before you call me a racist.
9 - geo
I don't understand why you automatically assumed that two fit guys wearing sweats or whatever in a jewelry store were rich and successful. I've known many ghetto dwellers who drove Cadillacs. Bling-bling isn't just for the rich, either. Maybe if you talk to yourself some more (in your blog) you'll dig out more false assumptions about other people.
10 - Temple Stark
First one - no, you said they were in athletic wear and big. You said the store was near the Broncos facility.
2+2.
Had you said or thought "Hmmm, are they gonna rob the place?" Then that would be different.
Second, since you asked. Again no.
Strange place.
Crowd of strangers.
Night time.
I'd be somewhat apprehensive no matter the color - and I think that's what happened with you.
11 - Bob A. Booey
"We are seeing a phenomenon where blacks are free to enter white neighborhoods - as they should be, and nothing wrong with this - but whites are threatened if they enter black neighborhoods."
Yeah, except for that whole racial profiling thing and groundless police stops of black drivers in affluent white neighborhoods. Ask any African-American what it's like to "drive while black," particularly in an area where they don't seem to "fit in" unless they're professional athletes. Even that doesn't suffice. I've read of high-profile athletes encountering racial discrimination in stores they shop in around the wealthier parts of Chicago.
White folks enter the "black neighborhoods" all the time -- to do business, own and develop property, to drive through on the way to their downtown jobs, to buy some drugs after putting in 10 hours at said yuppie brokerage job. Black folks who are discriminated against in the job market don't have the same luxury in the "white neighborhoods." Don't forget one reason America is so segregated now and hasn't made much progress in people living together: it's because of things like "white flight" to the suburbs that well-intentioned people like Lono are afraid to engage people of different races from behind vague fears and stereotypes. We perceive each other's dress and actions as dangerous or hostile because we are so dead-set on creating cultural divides and giving up hope of possibly communicating shared values and culture (all to be ignored).
That is all.
12 - Bob A. Booey
Paul: you could have had the same statistic about the Irish or Italians at the turn of the century, maybe even the Jewish. The Chinese indentured servants who worked in 1800s California were regarded as criminals and animalistic, yet their great-grandchildren are now being lauded as "model minorities" who are willing to flee to the suburbs and attend the right universities. Does that change your theory at all? Poverty, discrimination, and the focusing of police efforts toward the poor and discriminated-against result in theories of criminality like yours that are self-confirming. History proves as much. It also proves that the structural and cultural conditions perpetuating racism against blacks is far more profound and enduring than any other group has or will ever face in America.
Mark: simple question. If your theory of opportunity is true, why haven't you succeeded yet? I mean, really, why?
That is all.
13 - Mark Edward Manning
Bob A. Booey: "If your theory of opportunity is true, why haven't you succeeded yet? I mean, really, why?"
Come again? What are you talking about, Bob? More info on my "lack of success," please.
In other business, Bob, I simply feel that we've erected a wall between us (blacks vs. whites) because America has become "racist happy" as Paul pointed out in comment #8. I really don't care who's responsible for it - I feel it's a joint fault on the part of both blacks and whites - I'm just interested in a way that we can tear down this barrier.
It's gotten to the stage where, because we're all so uptight, whites cannot engage blacks in a normal conversation because they're scared to death of saying the wrong thing ... if we seem to patronize blacks, it's due to the consequences of our anxiety; it's not deliberate (in most cases).
And thank you for your civil arguments here, instead of accusing me, point-blank, of racism the way Shark so eloquently (as always) did.
14 - Mark Edward Manning
JR: "I'm sorry, how does that make you an expert on race relations in America?"
Because I am an American, and I lived in the U.S. for 30 years before coming overseas - and I never said I was an "expert" on race relations: I just gave my point of view!
15 - Steve S
It's gotten to the stage where, because we're all so uptight, whites cannot engage blacks in a normal conversation because they're scared to death of saying the wrong thing
Not this white boy.
16 - Paul Roy
Bob Booey: the big difference between "Irish and Italians at the turn of the century" is that each successive generation improved upon the last generation; learning the language, and becoming proud and productive members of society. Oh, and they didn't all insist on being called Italian-Americans, and Irish-Americans. I think most are plenty proud to be just plain ol' Americans. The opposite is true with blacks, I mean "African-Americans". You should read the book by a prominent black American (I don't recall the name) who took a trip to Africa, and wrote about how all black Americans should get down on their knees and thank God for being born in America. Slavery was one thing, but those born here, is another. During the 60's, as blacks were beginning to receive equal rights in the U.S., they did indeed become productive members of society. They fought for equal rights, worked hard, and educated themselves. Every generation since has declined drastically. Now, the percentage of black children born out of wedlock is around 70%, a lot of black kids can barely speak English, and there are more black men in prison than in college. Does this change YOUR theory at all Bob?
17 - Eric Olsen
actually, it's about 15k daily, not weekly, 17k today, in fact
18 - Al Barger
I reject this white man's burden of vague but persistent baseless guilt, and constant looking for some bad way to regard myself on racial issues.
My counter response is that I try to treat every individual fairly, like they deserve, or better. If I'm not being mean to people, I've got nothing to feel guilty about.
Or perhaps this is one of those original sin deals, like with the Christian religion. All white guys start out with slavery on 'em. Is that why I should feel guilty?
Perhaps Lono would do well to list a specific definition of "racism" against which we might judge our own personal hate crimes. Mine, I can tell you, are hideous.
19 - Sandra Smallson
Crikey! I couldn't carry on. I will try to read the rest of the posts later. Will respond to the original post and any other I might have read.
Are you racist because of your thoughts? I don't know. However, you are prejudiced. Is there a difference? I am not sure but I would like to think so.
I can't preach about it because I have had such thoughts about White folk myself. If I see one more brown toothed, dungaree wearing, trucker hat wearing, stringy haired white man driving a delivery truck, I might lose my mind. If I see one more anorexic looking, pale skinned, long haired, tight jean wearing white man and immediately assume he's a heavy metal rock star, I might lose my mind.
I complain everyday about blacks wearing jeans dropping off their bums, towels hanging off their back pockets et al. If I see one more white kid copying that look and looking more like an idiot than the cool black American he is trying to imitate, I might lose my mind. (Justin Timberlake & Eminem, take note)
I think almost every body from the deep south of North America is a former Klans member or a decendant of a klans man. I heard Charles Pickering this morning and before opening my eyes, I thought, what racist have Fox got on this time. Simply because of his Mississippi accent(don't care how many s's or P's). Is this bad? Yes. Does it make me prejudiced against White Americans with pronounced Southern accents? Perhaps. Yet, I find the southern drawl sexy. Is that Matt Mcconaughey's accent? I love it. 'tis different from Charles Pickering's though.
Does this mean I think I am better than these people and they are not fit to breathe the air I breathe or eat where I eat? Does it mean I deserve to own them? NO. We are all equal. Sadly, sometimes I block out the fact that every individual hs their own individual characteristics. Therefore, once the thought crosses my mind, I soon after I erase it and take the person at face value. Might still arrive at my initial prejudice but it's always a well learned lesson when I don't.
I dont think much of O'reilly or Limbaugh to care if they are racists. I find them deplorable human beings, so the issue of them being racist has no bearing because I could not think any worse of them than I do already.
20 - Sandra Smallson
Lono: "If you want acceptance, dress and look more respectably; and if you want insist on living up to the stereotype, then you will be looked upon with suspicion and fear."
Sandra: Sorry, just had to respond to this comment. It's a nonsense to suggest that people's fears are justified because young black boys like to strut with their hoods up. The fear of any white man in this case is the white man's problem.
I am afraid of heavily bearded white tramps on street corners, but that's my palava. It's not their fault they've got nowhere to go and no money to wash or shave. Dare I bump into a klan like shaven haired, blue eyed, white, tattoed boy in a predominantly white club? Heavens preserve me. I daren't. BUT that's my palava. Has nothing to do with the white person "insisting" on living up to any stereotype.
The manner of dress is only pertinent to the question of responsibility in my view. The issue of "fear" has no bearing except in the paranoid minds of those of us feeling the fear.
21 - SHIT MAN
Why is it that every "pro" blackass is some white dude living in a white fuckin fag neighbourhood and every "I HATE THEIR BLACK ASSES" is some dude living in a fucked up hood... it is because ONLY the last of the two knows what they are talking about !!! IDIOTS ! Don't speak till you know !
22 - Jamilla
pride, religion, politics that is where hate comes from, so why discuss it??? Just F.....G be human and get along... mind your owm buiness and respect eachother! don't hate just make love : )love you all Peace
23 - RJ
"Paul: you could have had the same statistic about the Irish or Italians at the turn of the century, maybe even the Jewish. The Chinese indentured servants who worked in 1800s California were regarded as criminals and animalistic, yet their great-grandchildren are now being lauded as "model minorities" who are willing to flee to the suburbs and attend the right universities. Does that change your theory at all?"
Blacks have been in this country much longer than any of the groups you mentioned above, and yet the problem continues. Assimilation is the key here.
24 - Mark Edward Manning
RJ: "Blacks have been in this country much longer than any of the groups you mentioned above, and yet the problem continues. Assimilation is the key here."
That may be, RJ. But I can't help but think about what turn-of-the-century, civil rights leader W.E.B. Dubois once said in a speech about "casting your bucket where you are," meaning, of course, use black labor instead of importing so many immigrants to do the work. If we'd listened to him, blacks today may just feel more appreciated and like they were an integral part of our society.
25 - Mark Edward Manning
Sandra Smallson: "It's a nonsense to suggest that people's fears are justified because young black boys like to strut with their hoods up. The fear of any white man in this case is the white man's problem."
Is that so, Sandra? So I take it that if you're walking home alone on a deserted street, and a homey in a hoodie comes struting up behind you, you don't feel any fear whatsoever? This sounds like something I'd expect to hear from a guilty white liberal living in a lilly-white neighborhood.