That would be me. And I thought I'd share the end of a "discussion" I'm having elsewhere.
Why am I proud of being Black?
I'm proud of the history of Black people. The myth of African acquiescence to slavery is exactly that-a myth. I'm proud of the way emancipated Black folks never abandoned their enslaved brethren. They worked the legal and literary channels…never mind that they were ignored. To this day Black people give more of their income to charity than anyone else. Even though we're brokest. That's noble.
I'm proud of the creativity we've mustered; we were forced into it by exclusion from mainstream but our response has still been robust. All that is unique in the USofA came about through a kind of feedback loop: American Indian and African influences were absorbed into the mainstream until America's culture is as African as it is European. Watch the loa come down on a couple dozen old ladies at Billy Graham's Crusade if you doubt me.
I'm proud because my people survived. Because even with the obstacles we face we still compete in numbers that are pretty amazing when you consider we're only three generations from chattel. We produced W.E.B. DuBois. Frederick Douglass, Sojourner Truth, Fanny Lou Hamer, Carter Godwin Woodson, Booker T. Washington, David Walker, Zora Neale Hurston, Claude McKay, Langston Hughes, Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby, just to name a few.
And yes, Malcolm X.
"I believe in the brotherhood of man, all men, but I don’t believe in brotherhood with anybody who doesn’t want brotherhood with me. I believe in treating people right, but I’m not going to waste my time trying to treat somebody right who doesn’t know how to return the treatment." Speech, Dec. 12 1964, New York City"When a person places the proper value on freedom, there is nothing under the sun that he will not do to acquire that freedom. Whenever you hear a man saying he wants freedom, but in the next breath he is going to tell you what he won't do to get it, or what he doesn't believe in doing in order to get it, he doesn't believe in freedom. A man who believes in freedom will do anything under the sun to acquire . . . or preserve his freedom."
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Eric Olsen
Your essay is very well-written, argued and presented, but I - speaking of straw people - don't think Kennedy means for such decisions of identity to be either/or, rather, matters of degree. And I agree with him that on an individual level seeing oneself as a person and an American is more germane to individual development than seeing oneself as black.
I also think that at this stage of American social development white hegemony is more a matter of remnant and habit than any kind of durable structure: i.e., that non-white individuals no longer have REAL (although their "ghosts" may certainly be perceived) barriers to entry to mainstream society, and that economic and educational status are more relevant social determinants than race in 2004.
As such, over-identifying (an amorphous term, granted, but I think the essence of what Kennedy was trying to define) with race can indeed be detrimental.
Reverse it: I, a reasonably well-educated white man from an upper-middle class background, identify much more with a black person of similar socio-economic status and/or background than with an uneducated, poor white person. I can't imagine the circumstances - short of race war - where that identification would change.
2 - P6
He does.
In fact, he's rather categorical about it.
On the pure individual development tip, being American is just as relevant or irrelevant as being Black. Nationality is undeniably a social construct, actually of the same nature as race. Think about it.
That said, individual development isn't all that life is about. And in the whole of one's life as a Black person, race is relevant in far too many areas to ignore, overlook or gloss over.
When you're not Black you can look at the situation with dispassion, decide what's wrong and render judgement accordingly. But it looks waaaay different from inside one's life.
It's not a matter of identifying on the basis of class or common experiences created by being in the particular race box one is in. Because, you see, Black culture was largely shaped by a centuries old race war. The one circumstance under which you can imagine identifying more with a poor white person than a rich Black one, is the very circumstance that is the dominant influence in our history.
Think about that. Twice.
3 - Eric Olsen
Everything looks different from the inside and I can appreciate that. And I have no problem with reasonable pride and identification with one's background, whether it be racial, religious, ethnic, linguistic, etc.
But I see all those things as secondary to being a person and to being an American, which is a unifying, voluntary (since 1865 or so) construct, and as such has more meaning than simply the way one's genes happened to come together.
I am a huge fan of black culture and am fully aware that America would be a vastly different, and greatly impoverished, place without it (although I am not a fan of thug culture of whatever hue).
I believe racial prejudice still exists, but I also believe that great advances have been made over the last 50 years. Looking to the past is fine, but looking to the future is more elevating, and pursuing the future as a relatively "free agent" individual still seems like the best way to go.
And my Black (is White also captialized?) friends don't seem to hold the past - in which I played no part - against me. We seem to interact as individuals.
I am curious what the practical ramifications are of your Black partisanship. Do you relate to me differently because I am White because of it?
4 - Mac Diva
Really? In my opinion there is a contradiction between being a 'black partisan' and being led around by the nose by white folks and a (probably pretend) Indian. Seems deceptive to believe otherwise.
Part of the reason I proudly claim my West African ancestry is because I am 'supposed to be' ashamed of it. I believe many African-Americans are. That is why they are always looking for modern white 'masters' to tell them what to think and do. I've been meaning to write a review of Ed Jones The Known World because he covers that ground very well in his novel.
5 - P6
You just resolved some 30% or more of all the problems you could have with a person.
We know that the social concept "race" has no biological basis. Therefore we know being Black isn't simply about the way one's genes happened together.
There's a book, The Black Notebooks: An Interior Journey by Toi Derricotte <--Click, please-- it's that I'm one degree of seperation from her). A "Quote of note" from the NY Times review:
This isn't about meaning so much as practical, day-to-day experience and fulfilling human requirements. You're familiar with Maslow? You realize after the primary need of physical survival comes the need to belong? That it comes prior to self-esteem? And that pursuit of each level requires practical mastery of the prior one?
That belonging is all Black people have looked for from day 1…those that feel absolutely rejected notwithstanding. And we cannot force the mainstream to accept us. Membership is always granted by the members. Ask the German immigrant wave, if you can find them...they've assimilated into unity. Ask the Irish wave, and the Italian wave, and the current Eastern Bloc wave.
Can you honestly say that, to this day, America has made Black people collectively feel at home?
But we have to belong. Second level need.
If you like. I don't believe I've used the term yet. I note you respect my choice so I'll respect yours.
Fair question. I'm assuming you mean on a personal level.
As I see it, it makes no difference. It doesn't take much conversation to pick an initial mental model of a person. I modify that model as I learn about the individual.
However, relativity is a bitch and I could see you concluding I do.
I need to be a bit picky-precise here. People who self-identify as White tend to get assigned one of the models that have never experienced effective prejudice, while people who self-identify as Black tend to get assigned one of the models that has. That experience has repercussions…there are there are experiences I share with people who self-identify as Black that must, with the White models (can I just say that? the self-identity part is implied) must be an equivalent discussion that I do not expect you to understand right away…like this one.
What I do about that depends on other characteristics I've assigned as I've individuated the mental model. If I've assigned the Fuckwad attrribute…
Politically, all it means is I make noise when an issue of interest to Black folks in particular is given short shrift. See, each of our human needs are the same, physical and psychological. Each culture provides for some of those needs by their existance, makes some possible and even likely. Each culture is the material we build our lives from. And since each culture is different, each provides different things and we each as a result need different things. There are things I would offer Black folks because they need it that I would not offer you because you don't.
Make sense?
6 - Nick Jones
I have nothing to contribute, but I'm enjoying reading the exchange. Please continue.
7 - P6
I could see you feeling that way if it ever happened.
8 - Mac Diva
Nick, since 'white' is the default setting for peoplehood (coining a word), particularly in the Western world, it does not require the work involved in being a person of color, especially a dispossessed person of color, does. So, it is much easier for Eric (for example) to just be himself on a daily basis. He is not out there dealing with the indignities of race. His life has not been shaped by loss, as most Indians' and African-Americans' lives have. There is not a political movement whose goal is to declare him genetically inferior and dismissable.
I haven't thought this out enough to write it clearly, but the concept of work being involved in being nonwhite is important. You know, the expenditure of time and energy. It takes an amazing toll on colored peoples because they are 'working' many times harder than their white counterparts. Just to exist. To finish school. Get or keep a job. Have a relationship. So, when someone exists and leaves a significant legacy, that is something worthy of admiration. I think that is the point P6 is making.
9 - Eric Olsen
This is too complicated for me to be able to reply quickly tonight - will ponder overnight. Thanks.
10 - P6
My admiration for the people I linked above and so many more? Yes, Mac, that's a major reason I admire them.
The fact is, in Frederick Douglass' case I'd have been killed or broken. Killed, I'm almost certain but the way slave children were raised it's possible I'd have been broken. That's a frightening thought.
I got heros, they're giants to the point of being archtypical, and they're Black.
11 - P6
This point is cutting into the lesson plan for Open Source Politics.
You know, I never really planned to go there on this site. It was to be an outlet. But my little flame war has me annoyed enough that I want anyone concerned to understand where I choose to stand. So I'm taking this time to school people. When this thread ends, I'm taking it to OSP.
12 - P6
One more thing.
Black and American are not mutually exclusive.
At least that's what the Children of Africa on this continent have been trying to prove, often at great cost, for several hundred years.
13 - Al Barger
Right on, Prometheus. If I might take the liberty of adding a few nominations for your black wall of fame from the fifth paragraph of this column,
Louis Armstrong
Duke Ellington
Thomas Sowell
Miles Davis
Walter Williams
Prince
Mohamed Ali
Richard Pryor
Smokey Robinson
Bernie Mac
14 - RJ Elliott
And Larry Elder
15 - Mac Diva
I don't believe Walter Williams, a member of and very vocal advocate for the neo-Confederate movement, qualifies as a black partisan. Nor would many other black conservatives since their position is in support of an oppressive status quo. Williams' friend and fellow black neo-Confederate, J. J. Johnson, has announced that he has resigned from being black. Despite the ineffectiveness of such gestures, I support Johnson in doing so. At least he is being honest about where he is coming from. Maybe Williams, Sowell, Elder, Hamblin, etc., will join him.
16 - Eric Olsen
P6, I find the notion of different cultures providing different things very interesting and most likely true, but I think it reinforces my point that identifying too strongly with a single "culture" (technically subculture within the larger American culture) is constraining. As African-American culture has informed American culture to a remarkably large degree, so has "American" culture informed "African-American" culture. What would American culture be without African-American culture? Look to Europe. What would African-American culture we without American culture? Look to Africa. I would argue the larger, hybrid (also with strong Latin-American, Asian, Caribbean, American Indian, etc influences) American culture is stronger, more vibrant, more transcendent than any of them.
The "melting pot" notion is cliched but real and by not embracing the larger whole I think we limit ourselves. I am far more "Black" than my Norwegian cousins - this is a great thing. You P6 are far more "white" than your African cousins, and despite the grim, evil, dehumanizing, inexcusable legacy of slavery in America, at this point in time - with slavery 150 years gone, official segregation 50 years gone, civil rights legislation 40 years on the books, and opportunity aavailable to those who would avail themselves of it - I think you are better off than your African cousins as I am vis-a-vis my Norwegian cousins.
I would say taking pride in African-American contributions to the larger American culture is just as valid a source of Maslowian belonging as identifying with the narrower "African-American" culture, and that each of us identifying with this larger culture - to which we have all contributed - might be the best path forward.
Unfortunately, we cannot alter the past, only deal with its legacy as best we can.
17 - Shark
re: African-American culture
Earl, just curious:
Have you seen the TV commercials for the upcoming film "Soul Plane"?
If so, what goes through your mind when you watch this commercial?
Thanks in advance,
Shark
18 - Shark
PS: Can't possibly leave August Wilson and William Grant Still off your list.
(Just tryin' to be helpful.)
19 - Nick Jones
And Ralph Ellison.
20 - jadester
I don't want to get into the debate/argument about racism, beacuse to be honest i know not nearly enough about it even in my own country (England) except for the fact that it exists, albeit seemingly more conecntrated and patchy than in the US (i could be wrong but my own limited experience is all i got for this)
But i want to bring up something Eric said in his last reply to this thread:
"American culture is stronger, more vibrant, more transcendent than any of them."
I have to say i disagree. I'm not sure exactly which culture in the world is "the most vibrant", becuase so far i have only actually experienced 3 main cultures for real (as opposed to seeing them on TV, reading about them etc.). Actually that's a lie, if you count the 'net as a separate culture, but then that's a whole other topic...
anyway, I would like to know, for example, how much Eric knows about British culture? for all the stereotypical "stiff upper lip" and "God save the queen" and "long live the British empire" stuff, we have a pretty good mix of races in this country. Whilst the mixing of the cultures is far from any definition of even anywhere near complete - for various reasons, plenty of people of the different races actively try not to mix with any other race - it *is* happening, and i would argue that, for example, british culture is as vibrant as american any day.
21 - Mac Diva
Jade, your fellow Brit, Sandra Smallson, is saying very much the same thing on one of the threads about Iraq. I largely agree with you two that American chauvinism is offensive. Living in America, and having spent increments of time in Europe and Africa, my experience has been that people behave pretty much the same in day to day living. What is different about the U.S. is its material wealth and American arrogance. Much of the material wealth is accidental, by which I mean the settlers did little to create it. They took over a country with vast resources. The arrogance is usually unfounded. I haven't posted my entry about Our Little Torturer, Lynndie England, to Blogcritics yet, but I think that situation is very representative of what is wrong with the American psyche. Most of the abusers of those prisoners probably can't even spell 'prisoner.' Yet, they believe they have the right to abuse Iraqis because they are Americans. That is so-o-o-o typical of my countrymen. It shames us. But, many Americans are incapable of being ashamed.
22 - Eric Olsen
It is neither an insult to British culture nor any other culture to make the objective claim that American culture (which has borrowed deeply from British culture, was founded on British culture) has come to be the default world culture, precisely because of its hybrid, ecumenical nature that almost every other culture of the world can see some of itself in. That is simple fact, not arrogance.
23 - P6
Eric:
This conversation is turning out better than I thought it might.
You miss the point. Regardless of the fact that American culture is a pastiche of European, American Indian and African culture with significant additions from other European derivatives, it too is a single culture, and therefore limited by its nature.
There will always be those for whom American culture is insufficient, or damaging, or a mere starting point. And primary among them are the people who America will not accept as members.
Again I ask: can you honestly say, to this day, that the USofA acknowledges Black Americans as full members? And if you think so, survey the cultural landscape and tell me how Black Americans will know this.
No doubt. But understand that you and I are dealing with different aspects of that legacy.
What problems does racism cause you, a reasonably well-educated white male from a fairly upper middle class background?
What problems does racism cause me, a 6'2" 185 lb Black male, self-educated, no degree, had to work up from messenger to Assistant VP at a bank, father a farmer, mother a laborer that eventually got a nice safe civil service job?
Feel me?
Check my discussion. I see the past but I'm not living there. I have, by mainstream standards, been a success. I am not someone who is complaining because they couldn't make it.
It would be.
If the mainstream would allow it.
24 - P6
Al:
Some of these choices indicate a kind of unacceptably low standard for Hero status.
Louis Armstrong - Giant
Duke Ellington - Giant
Mohammad Ali - Giant, symbol
Miles Davis - Genius, not giant
Prince - Genius, not giant
Smokey Robinson - Pop artist
Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams - You'll have to justify these for me to take them seriously. I don't take them seriously on the political tip, after all.
And you'll be wanting an explanation, I suppose. They write with a view toward solving the mainstream's problems with Black folks. I write with the view of addressing Black folks' problems and issue.
Bernie Mac, Richard Pryor - Really like them, really don't qualify
25 - P6
RJ:
What has Larry Elder done that I should accord him the status of a Carter Woodsen?
I'm going to take this as a subtle probing of my position ratherthan a legitimate suggestion.