When the protest was over, both sides had yelled, exchanged pamphlets, rung bells, quoted the Bible, and played sirens. What neither had done was listen to the other. Eventually both groups retreated from the streets and returned to their homes and churches, preparing to battle on another day.
An anti-abortion activist leads her child past the group's signs.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - KJ
Did we forget that the biological purpose of Sex is to create babies?
I dont think that murdering my wife should be protected under the law because I dont want her; even if its my choice to kill her.
27 - diana hartman
if the only purpose of sex is to have babies, then why are there people who are unable to conceive still having sex?
are they wrong to do so?
law or not, there are men who kill their wives because they no longer want them...the law doesn't stop them...what would help is listening to a man's discontent and helping him address his issues way before he gets to the point of a desperate act...
in the same way, abortions were chosen by the desperate even when they weren't legal...
to prevent an action you have to adddress what leads to the first thing (unprotected sex)...to address the result (unwanted pregnancy) of the first thing rather than its cause is, again, starting the race at the finish line...
who cares that you don't like whose at the finish line?
where were you at the beginning of the race?
28 - T A Dodger
the biological purpose of Sex is to create babies
Actually, KJ, interesting side-note, most people have sex for pleasure. Shocking, I know. Most of us even go out of our way to make sure it doesn't result in reproduction.
29 - T A Dodger
Also, any argument about whether a fetus is a baby or not is irrelivant. No human, of whatever age, has the right to comandeer my body and put MY life at risk so they can use me as a walking, talking incubator for nine months. It i choose to let a fetus use me in that way it's one thing, but no person has a right to another person's body, even if they need that body to survive.
30 - T A Dodger
Joey
Would capital punishment for rapists curtail some of the activity?
I love that your suggestion for preventing rape is to kill people... I am humbled by your respect for the sanctity of all human life.
31 - tobra
oh yes, a human can use someone's body to survive, siamese twins have done so through the years. your feminists speech will work great in a muslim country.
32 - T A Dodger
your feminists speech will work great in a muslim country.
Do you actually support the way women are treated by people like the Taliban?
oh yes, a human can use someone's body to survive
So the government can take a lung from you against your will to give it to someone else? You shouldn't have a choice what is done with your body on behalf of other people?
siamese twins have done so through the years
In that case each twin depends on the other to survive. It is mutually beneficial. In some cases it is parasitic, but then either the children are seperated and one dies, or they are left together, and both die.
33 - tobra
babies and siamese twins are examples. it is wrong to kill a dependant person, hitler killed his useless people and it is sad so many young americans follow hitler's example. in muslim countries feminists remarks like the kind you wrote are usually not allowed. i do not agree with the taliban, nor do i agree with feminists remarks that promote child killing.
34 - T A Dodger
You still haven't answered the question. Do you think the govenment has the right to take your lung to give it to your relative? Yes, donating the organ would be the right thing to do, but can the government compel you to do it? Do they have that right?
hitler killed his useless people Interesting to see you think the 12 million people slaughtered in the holocoust were "useless." What a lovely thought for Yom Kippur. (/sarcasm)
35 - tobra
nor will i answer your question as i do not like your rudeness. the policies of hitler labeled people. "useless" is a way to describe how hitler determined who was destined to be removed from his nation. there are other words to describe hitler's victims. useless to hitler is one of them.
36 - T A Dodger
You won't answer the question because there is no answer.
It is right and noble to give blood, organs, bone marrow, etc. to save the life of another person, especially if there are no other available matches.
Nonetheless, the government does not have the right to force you to do those things.
It is also incredibly self-sacrificing and noble to carry an unexpected pregnancy to term. Women who do so, especially under difficult circumstances, have earned anyone's admiration.
Nonetheless, the government does not have the right to comandeer people's body parts for the benefit of others even if doing so would be the only way to save a life.
Also, you didn't say "useless to Hitler;" you said "useless."
37 - tobra
God will destroy nations that kill and/or allow innocent people to be killed. abortionists kill innocent babies. the babies mother is usually the one hiring the abortionist. a Godly nation would condemn her for child murder and the abortionist as well.
38 - T A Dodger
and that still doesn't answer the question.
39 - Steve S
God will destroy nations
Not to worry, we always have Halliburton.
40 - tobra
God is eternal, not the u.s.a. or halliburton.
41 - Steve S
nor, apparently, humor.
42 - diana hartman
"God is eternal, not the u.s.a. or halliburton."
an acquaintance of mine says "i exist in a vacuum and imagine all things around me; prove i'm not"...
God is only a figment of her imagination, as is the US and halliburton...
43 - tobra
you can mock me, you can make God, but you can not make the temperature of Hell one degree lower. God destroys unrepentant sinners and i hope you do not find yourself spending an eternity in Hell for your foolish sins.
44 - Steve S
wasn't mocking you, was making a comment on nation building. But yes, I understand the fundamentalist viewpoint you tout. ANY different thought is condemned to hell. We are aware of your kind.
45 - Anthony Grande
>nor, apparently, humor.<
If you think abortion is humorous...
46 - tobra
you can think whatever you like, i don't condemn anyone to hell. some people regard fundamentalist views one way and some another. i simple believe the Bible is God's Word, accept Christ as my Savior and try obey God's Word.
47 - Anthony Grande
>i simple believe the Bible is God's Word, accept Christ as my Savior and try obey God's Word.<
My dear God, is this man serious??? This is America, there is no room for God here. Don't you know that???
48 - tobra
God created this nation and there is room for Him and you, but when He removes you, you gone.
49 - Steve S
re: comment 45, you miss the point, it wasn't about abortion. (The initial comment was, but not my response, it was about nation building).
going back to the original comment:
a Godly nation would condemn her
Here is the crux of the matter. If you would like to live in a Godly nation, I suggest Syria.
50 - Anthony Grande
>God created this nation and there is room for Him and you, but when He removes you, you gone.<
(Ducking)
Stop shooting!!! I am on your team!!!
Freindly Fire!!! Freindly Fire!!!
I was being sarcastic in 47 brother.
We are truly ONE NATION UNDER GOD.
We are the center of the world. Our Revolutionary Militamen were guided by God. We were meant to lead this world. We do so much for the world.
51 - tobra
our founding fathers as well. unfortunately we honor the minutemen for fighting in the war of independence, but so often fail to honor the people who defend babies from abortions. a fine Christian gentleman named steve jordi has been imprisoned and now faces being labeled a terroist by our nation's corrupt government officals. steve has a wife and 4 young children and needs our prayers.
52 - Anthony Grande
Tobra, if this abortion thing gets out of hand and we fail to overturn Roe v. Wade, will you answer the call and join the Militia to ovethrow these oppressors who are going against the public opinion???
Stephen Jordi's intentions were good, but that is not how we are going to overturn Roe v. Wade. But if it gets worse then we got to do what we got to do.
53 - tobra
a mutual friend's execution plays a larger part in this and if paul hill is like john brown in american history, then civil war will occur.if paul's executionis not a catalyst for civil war, then we can continue playing politics while babies are killed. will you help steve? i have no comment about the militia.
54 - RogerMDillion
"a fine Christian gentleman" doesn't plan on blowing up building, tobra. If you pray for abortions to stop and they don't, maybe god is trying to tell you something.
Look at Abortion Grande. Talking about violent overthrow in this country. I thought you were going to Iraq. Provide some details on your masterplan.
Imagine if you all focused your energies on the people that are living.
55 - tobra
many fine Christian gentlemen blew up buildings in the revelutionary war, why do you condemn steve? our first president killed many in war, you want to know my plans? they are none of your business.
56 - RogerMDillion
I'm sorry. How many people did George Washington kill?
I condemn Steve because he is an evil, disgusting man.
"you want to know my plans? they are none of your business."
Yet if you were going to have an abortion, you feel that it should be everyone's business.
In the Bible, it doesn't say that the hypocritical shall inherit the Earth.
57 - Guppusmaximus
We have finite minds and will never fully understand God's plan so we must live by his word and not judge or condemn others. You need to pray all the time not just when other people are in need....
58 - tobra
yes, roger you are sorry.
59 - Rory
"My kids saw the truth truck with the picture of the aborted fetuses and they asked me what it was..." I have a hard time believing that high-schoolers haven't heard about abortion, it is one of the most commonly practiced medical procedures. If they haven't heard they need to be educated on such a common practice, what are pro-abortionists afraid of? They're so proud of the right to choose, why not show the effects of that choice?
60 - RogerMDillion
Wow. that's some debate skill you have there, tobra. you must be right about god with that keen intellect you exhibit.
61 - tobra
i try to show Him some respect and recommend you do as well.
62 - Anthony Grande
>Yet if you were going to have an abortion, you feel that it should be everyone's business.<
How come a doctor can kill a baby and you say it is known of our business, but when people kill those doctors then you guys insist it is everyone's business???
Look, blowing up abortion clinics isn't the answer right now. It brings us to the same level as the abortionists. Roe v. Wade will be overturned. But when worst comes to worst my argument will change.
Also, we cannot kill Abortion doctors or blow up Abortion clinices in the name of God, because Jesus came here and made it clear that violence is wrong and is not the way to go.
63 - RogerMDillion
"blowing up abortion clinics isn't the answer right now."
It's never the right answer.
64 - tobra
i think you are wrong, i have never said it is everybody's business when an abortionist is killed. like the resistance that fought the nazi's in WII, killing an abortionist can be done quietly, in fact if you have no body you have no case is a good rule of thumb. dead abortionists don't kill babies. in revelations Jesus leads an army that kills many.
65 - Sam Jack
Just in clarification with regards to comment 59, I believe that the man's kids were younger than high school age.
66 - tobra
high school age is different in different parts of the nation,in some countries, girls 13 or younger marry, showing young people a picture of an aborted baby is very relevant. and many girls from other countries come to america. a picture is worth a 1000 words so they say, and perhaps the baby killers should use the aborted baby pictures to illustrate a sucessful abortion.
67 - T A Dodger
in some countries, girls 13 or younger marry
riiight... but that's child abuse, and we don't allow it here.
many girls from other countries come to america
and when they get here, we don't let them marry pedophiles.
baby killers [sic] should use the aborted baby pictures to illustrate a sucessful abortion
Doctors dont' show people gruseome pictures of a person's recently removed appendix to display that the fact that the surgery is possible. It isn't informative.
You still have never said why the government should be able to force a person to donate the use of an organ (in this case a womb)to save or support the life of another person. Does the government have right to force people to donate organs, or even to donate blood against that person's will?
68 - tobra7
mrs. loretta lynn probably doesn't like knowing you consider her late husband a pedoplile. a young lady married in a foreign country and visiting our nation is still married even at age 13. some doctors show post surgery pictures. you can ask stupid questions all you like, i shall not answer them.
69 - T A Dodger
I think it's wrong for a person to get married when they're 14. I really don't care if that hurts their feelings.
some doctors show post surgery pictures
Fair enough. I think they're probably trying to show how the healing procedes not shock people with blood and gore, but I actually don't have anything against doctors showing pictures to women, as long as they're doing so for medical reasons.
you can ask stupid questions all you like, i shall not answer them.
Honestly tobra7, if you ever want to change a pro-choicer's mind about abortion, you have to address their concerns. Most of us will not change our minds just because you show us pictures of aborted fetuses.
It may surprise you, but many of us (myself included) think carrying the baby to term is the right thing to do and that abortion is something that we, as a society should be trying to prevent. The problem is, most of us feel that the government doesn't have the right to force a woman to risk her life and use her body for someone else if she doesn't want to. That sort of concern is what my question is getting at, and you won't get anywhere with people by ignoring those types of concerns.
70 - T A Dodger
At any rate, I'm beginning to suspect you're just a troll anyway, so I'm out of this discussion. You aren't interested in any kind of exchange of ideas.
71 - tobra
the Bible is more important to me than people's opinions, if you want to kill a person to promote some idea of women's rights, i think that is cruel and deadly. i am not interesting in debating medical issues. abortion is a killing, women are sacrificing their children to the god of convenience and the Bible says to get rid of altars of child sacrifice. sacrificing your child is an abomination like homosexualality. these practices are contrary to the Will of God, and need to be removed from america. you want t abortion here, then plain and simple, i hate you. advocating killing innocent babies is why i hate you. the Bible explains the reasoning, hope you will read and understand it.
72 - nugget
tobra:
Jesus Christ did/does not hate anyone. God does not hate anyone. You should not (nor does the BIBLE justify you) hating anyone. The hate you manifest is your OWN.
I believe abortion is wrong, but women are going to do it. I believe they are stupid for doing it, but they're GOING to do it. Roe vs. Wade has more to do with the health and safety of the mother who would be willing to perform an illegal abortion than the fact that abortion is wrong. This is logic.
Also, I have a problem with calling anti-abortion "pro-life". If you support the death penalty, yet take a pro life stance on abortion, then you are clearly contradicting yourself. If you are pro-life, then you are pro-life about all life. Not just babies that are easy to love because they havn't committed a crime.
I should reiterate. Abortion is morally wrong. There is no question about this.
An unborn baby is a human. It is not a parasite. It is not some newly evolved organ which has developed with furious speed to aid in specious adaptation. Let's compare an unborn baby to a newly born one. A new born baby's proportions are nothing like that of a grown man. It's head is huge. Its arms and legs are very short. You get the picture. So presenting the following as valid, "a fetus is not a person because it likens a chicken or pig," would be silly.
The developing child inside a woman is exactly that, DEVELOPING into a person, growing. A newborn baby is capable of hardly anything more than an unborn one. It cannot comprehend morality, moreover, it may feel pain, but it is doubtful that any pain (including pain caused by death) would be of any consequence considering a) it would already be dead, and b) if it survived, it's memory is not yet sufficient enough store that information. Plus, people aren't afraid of death because of the attached pain, nor do we go on living because we are scared of the pain of death. To say "the fetus does not feel pain", thus, is irrelevant.
Now let's assume the unborn baby is in fact a human. The pro-abortion stance is that the mother's right to choose what she "wants to do with her body" trumps her child's right to live. It is not true. If we assume this logic to apply in all walks of life, consider this scenario: I'm in a grocery store and see a woman violently beating her 4 year old child. Should I interject? It's clear she may kill the child. No one else is around. Is it my duty to protect life at all costs at the expense of this mother's right to beat her child? I don't think so. I am arrogant enough to decide FOR her...for the safety of her child and what was once part of her in her body. Notice that I make no distinction between her already born child and one that might still be in her. The premise of this idea did not warrant a distinction.
The real question is, how do you channel women's (and mens') thoughts and ideas concerning sex and responsibility? Sex education is an ominous task with which so many people seem to butt heads in its progress. Abstinence AND contraception use should be taught together. The validity and implications of both should be discussed. It makes no sense to brood and bicker over the excessive teaching of either because of religious or anti-religious agendas.
Teachers must implant a practical awareness of the great RISK that is having sex. That is, not only is it an emotional roller-coaster ride, but there's a chance you or your partner might get pregnant! They also must reiterate that sex is great and wonderful. It is something which should not be feared. Monogamy and safety should be the preferred topics.
I think many of these issues are being handled quite well across america, but sometimes they are not.
73 - nugget
let me clarify my hypothetical grocery store situation. It IS my duty to interject. I typed "i don't think so" for some mind-fart reason.
74 - RogerMDillion
"killing an abortionist can be done quietly, in fact if you have no body you have no case is a good rule of thumb."
according to your logic, and I use the term loosely, killing a fetus can be done quietly so you should have no problem with it.
"if you want to kill a person to promote some idea of women's rights, i think that is cruel and deadly."
yet you are okay with killing a doctor to protect a fetus' rights, which it doesn't have. by the way, you aren't alone when it comes to thinking that killing a person can be deadly.
"in revelations Jesus leads an army that kills many."
And a magic hat brings a snowman to life in a different book, yet neither one is true.
75 - Steve S
Here is an article on msnbc, I believe it is from today, about abstinance. A key note from it:
A recent study found that teens who took pledges of virginity as part of abstinence-only sex ed classes ultimately had STD rates similar to other young people and were less likely to use contraception or other forms of protection when they did become sexually active.
So we can assume they either end up raising a child in poverty, unprepared or they are the ones getting abortions?