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Crossing The Border

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Coming as I do from a family of refugees from Bangladesh displaced by partition and settled in India for a couple of generations, immigration legal, illegal, enforced, or by choice is always of interest to me. My ancestors were driven out of their homeland and had to start their lives over in a new country. Years after the 1947 refugee crisis was over, the tide of illegal immigrants from Bangladesh to West Bengal, India rises unabated.

The semi-porosity of the international border and the government’s studied indifference to the problem only helps these people who desperately seek a better life. Once in India, they form a formidable vote-bank that no political party can afford to alienate itself from. They derive their strength in their large, undocumented numbers and just for that reason the free flow from across the border will never stem.

Anyone who has spent time in West Bengal knows that an impoverished neighbor and electoral math involving illegal immigrants is a lethal combination. We bemoan the state’s appalling lack of infrastructure and how it is the least favored destination for domestic or international investors. We watch helplessly as the swelling ranks of illegals overtake what little the state has got left — it is akin to watch a parasite grow so large that it kills the host it feeds on. We wait for that slow death to deliver our state from its debilitating status quo.

The storm of protests over the US immigration bill fills me with deja vu. With some variations, there is the same fatal mix of an impoverished neighbor and electoral math. Only in India illegal immigrants would not so boldly proclaim that an enforcement-only policy is not acceptable to them. Also, in India we do not have a large body of people working diligently through legitimate channels to acquire permanent residency and citizenship.

Granting any form of general amnesty to illegal immigrants in America is a slap on the face of those who have and are pursuing the long, arduous, and mind-numbingly painful immigration process. It is as much a mockery of the immigration system in this country as it is of all those who are involved in it.

The real solution lies in eliminating the root cause of such exodus from one country to another — in helping the impoverished, sometimes relatively dysfunctional neighbor improve their lot and set their house in order, so their people would have no incentive left to cross the border. Because once they do and their numbers swell to 11 million and over, the electoral math will render it impossible to remediate the situation as is evident in the ongoing struggle with the immigration bill.

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About HC

  • RedTard

    The electoral math is being done now and the number of protesters in the streets tells me politicians will find a way not to do anything. The time to do something about this problem passed a decade ago.

  • Nancy

    The author is right in one regard: the politicians are whores running after what they perceive as a new voting block. The irony is, if they enforce the immigration laws & deport all these illegals, there IS no new voting block, since no illegal or non-citizen can vote. The question raised in my mind is, how many of those registered to vote are voting illegally, with the help of falsified, forged IDs? I suspect large numbers of “legal” votes in the recent past elections are actually illegal, because those voting are illegal, and certainly not bona fide citizens.

  • RedTard

    “The real solution lies in eliminating the root cause of such exodus from one country to another — in helping the impoverished , sometimes relatively dysfunctional neighbor improve their lot and set their house in order, so their people would have no incentive left to cross the border.”

    Much easier said than done. Mexico is a corrupt, would be third world shithole if not for it’s close proximity and trade relations with the US. They’re too corrupt for money at the top and we already export mucho dollars at the bottom to no avail. Pumping money into that system only serves to prolong it, and only Mexicans citizens can change it.

    Perhaps we could help them best by building a wall and stopping the flow of impoverished dissidents into this country. Maybe all those looking for a better life will quit running to the US and instead make a difference in their own country.

  • Nancy

    Either that or maybe we should start billing Vincente Fox for dumping all his trash in our yard – and make sure we collect, too. Also, you say Mexico is a “wannabe 3rd-world shithole”. You’re wrong there: Mexico has long actualized its position as a leading 3rd-world shithole. No “wannabe” about it.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    Yes! Build a wall! The most free and admirable regimes in history have all built walls. The Ming Dynasty had their Great Wall, and of course the Ming Dynasty is still in power today, right? The Roman Empire had Hadrian’s Wall, and everybody loves the Romans! The East Germans had the Berlin Wall, which is really a great example for us to follow. Of course let’s not forget the French and their super-duper Maginot Line, which contributed so much to the modern French reputation for military victory.

    All of these are remembered by historians as completely successful efforts to seal off one part of the planet’s surface from all the other parts. We should waste no time in joining their august company.

    Just give me enough warning to get on the other side of this sparkling new wall, so I don’t end up stuck on the same side with Nanzi and Red.

  • troll

    naturally I’d prefer moats with draw bridges

    troll

  • RedTard

    Great moronic analogies batman. Gee I suppose since the Romans and Nazi Germany had roads then those must be bad too.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    Roads work. Walls don’t.

  • RedTard

    Ever tried building a house or prison without them?

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    Ah, a prison! What a revealing example!

  • http://www.heartcrossings.blogspot.com heartcrossings

    As much as a physical barrier(walls, invisible fences that electrocute, moats filled with gators) seems like the option of choice, desperate people resort to desperate measures. Barriers do not stop them. They are fearless because they have nothing left to lose.

    As RedTard points out, electoral math is already at work given the size of the protests and rallies. It will be very surprising if any “comprehensive immigration reform” will come about.

    One option that come to mind – instead of outsourcing IT work to China and India send it near-shore to Mexico. If the Indian example is any indication, Mexican economy could be transformed beyond recognition.

  • RedTard

    As a military tool they are useless, when you want to seperate poulations they work great. I have walls on my house to keep people from walking in, using and taking my stuff and eating my food. That’s exactly what our border wall is for, to prevent people from coming and taking advantage of our programs.

    In our old system with more unregulated capitalism, lower population, a great manifest destiny to fulfull, and almost no safety net mass immigration was fine, they’d come here and either integrate or starve. Now they come here, never learn english, have 5 kids, jump on foodstamps and housing assistance, overstrain our school and medical infrastructure, and drive down wages for our native born poor and uneducated.

    At one time we had massive amounts of land and resources and little population, now that is starting to be reversed. Things change and attitudes need to change with them, who’s conservative now?

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    I’ve always been conservative, but a real one, not recognized by the fakes in power who have stolen the term to describe themselves.

    Border walls, just like door locks and gun laws, only restrict the freedom of the honest. The dishonest will find ways over, under, around, or through them, just as they always have.

    If we want real border security for the United States, we can get the border crossers to document their movements for us. All we have to do is establish a reward of legal status as guest workers for those who let us know they are coming here to work. If we do that, we can focus on keeping out actual security risks, who might try to enter in numbers ranging from the dozens to the hundreds.

    We will utterly fail to secure anything if we expend all our resources attempting to keep out millions of workers. All we would achieve by that is to reduce our own freedom, and the freedom of other honest people who pose no real threat to anyone.

  • http://www.heartcrossings.blogspot.com heartcrossings

    Then there is the argument that locals will not work the low-paying jobs that the illegals from across the border take. The country would grind to a halt if indeed all illegals were hounded out.

    At the grassroot level one way to stem the tide is for Americans to aggressively go after those menial jobs until the competition is driven out. That might be a Gandhian solution to the problem.

  • RedTard

    You’re right, security devices don’t stop anyone who is hellbent on doing something, they make it more difficult. We need to make legal immigration easier and illegal more difficult to the point where people will choose legal channels.

    Right now we can’t enforce any standards of immigration because it is easier to simply walk across the border than to even fill out any guest worker papers.

  • RedTard

    “Then there is the argument that locals will not work the low-paying jobs”

    Which is total garbage. In the 80’s there was 10% of the illegal Mexicans there are now and people’s yards still got mowed and construction work still got done. How did that happen if Americans weren’t doing it?

    American’s won’t take those jobs at third world prices. Our doctor’s and lawyer’s wouldn’t take comparable Mexican wages either.

    Either way, my problems with illegal immigration is not based on jobs, wages, and benefits. I worry about allowng the creation of a seperate subculture with a different language, religion, and value system within our country. That has been a recipe for disaster every time it has been tried.

  • Guppusmaximus

    Redtard is correct in that aspect about jobs & wages and I do agree with him about the cultural invasion but I also agree with Victor that a wall isn’t going to work even though I do like the idea( Actually, the mout was better). Considering our Government hasn’t come up with any real solutions either, Maybe we can shoot ‘em all…I mean it is an invasion…isn’t it??

  • Nancy

    I don’t know why any of us is worrying about it. The politicians are going to do whatever they damn well please, which is probably to stall & do nothing – at the very least, til after elections, and probably forever if they can finagle it. If they have to do something, they’ll go whoring after the illegals, because that’s a helluva lot of new constituants to shovel BS at & wangle votes from dumb peasants fresh off the boat (so to speak) who don’t know any better.

    The illegals will continue to stream in, settle down, & breed, thereby perpetuating the very situation they’ve tried to escape from, since they will also immediately send their kids to free public schools, & register at the food banks, use the hospital emergency rooms as primary physicians’ offices, and demand help with public-assisted housing, transportation, etc. – all in Spanish, of course, and free.

    The rest of us will continue to pay our increasing taxes (unless we’re among the very wealthy, in which case Dubya will see to it we get tax cuts) which foot the bill for all these lovely freebies, barricade ourselves against the MS-13 home invaders & muggers, & watch this country go down the toilet.

  • Arch Conservative

    My name is Pancho
    I live on a rancho,

    I make five pseos a day,

    I see Maria,
    She sleep with meee-ah,

    She take my five pesos away

  • zingzing

    that was dumb.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    At 300 million we are running out of water. The sun simply cannot evaporate from the oceans, and deliver enough precipitation to the headwaters of our limited number of rivers, to be able to supply with adequate water, a population very much bigger than what this country already has.

    Quite apart from the cultural wreckage it is wreaking on our nation, the importation of millions of third world Hispanics every year, who breed extremely rapidly, is a deomgraphic recipe which will strain to the point of collapse every single one of our crucially important existing physical infrastructures.

    We can repel this invasion and thus preserve the Golden Age of the United States as an inheritance for our posterity, or we can just give in without any resistance, and resign ourselves to leaving our children and grandchildren with the bleak prospect of a nation on the path of an inexorable descent into becoming just one more miserable, densely populated third world country.

  • zingzing

    richard brodie, paranoid man in a cheap shit room: they’re stealing our water!
    hispanics “breed extremely rapidly?” “breed?”
    and what’s this “Golden Age of the United States”

    you’re living in a paranoid, animalistic dream-scape.

    my family has been here less than 100 years. we were immigrants. this country has ALWAYS been a country of immigrants. it’s what made it what it is. just because you don’t like the new immigrants doesn’t mean a damn thing. you don’t get to say. these same arguments were being had 100 years ago. and my family didn’t march peacefully, they fought in the fucking streets. we murdered and burned and stole. the country will change to suit its reality. always has, always will.

    repel the invasion! go ahead. murder a mexican. go to jail. have fun!

  • Arch Conservative

    You only got o jail if you get caught.

  • zingzing

    yeah man. kill em all.

    cool! somethin’ shiny!

  • Arch Conservative

    The key word is illegal.

    We’re against ILLEGALS, not immigrants Zing

    Get it straight.

  • http://www.heartcrossings.blogspot.com heartcrossings

    Zing – if you get a chance read up a little about Calcutta, India in the early 1900s and then if possible visit the city today. You can see what allowing illegal immigrants in unabated for 50 years can do to a city known for its art and culture as it was for being the hub of trade and business in Asia. You may feel less inclined to repeat the mistake in America.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    since both sides of the argument concede that defending the border competely is impossible, the obvious answer is to target the companies that exploit and hire the workers. Oddly enough, nobody is advocating that.

    No surprise to see the conservatives here racially attack the exploited worker who thinks it’s a good thing to work 16 hours a day for three dollars an hour. Why not target the employer who is causing this problem?

  • http://www.heartcrossings.blogspot.com heartcrossings

    Targeting and punishing the employers who exploit illegals will be almost as impossible as getting WalMart out of business. As long as there are consumers for cheap goods and services in America the jobs for the illegals is guaranteed.

    If those employers were indeed punished, they would merely pass on the costs associated to the hapless consumer who is already footing the bill for keeping the illegals in country.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    if that is true heartcrossings and if the consumer insists on buying cheap goods, then the consumer has no business complaining about the employer paying illegals to do the job.

    It’s either put up or shut up. You can’t bitch about illegals working for 3 dollars an hour and then go shopping at the business’s who exploit these people so they don’t have to pay taxes and all that.

    Sounds like having your cake and eating it too.

    If you want Americans to have the job, then you have to pay the American to work it. And when you shop, that means paying the price. If you want your 99 cent gadget, then quit bitching about the people who are willing to make it.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I know what you are saying heartcrossing, and I understand, but does anybody realize how pathetic that makes us Americans look?

    We want the benefit of the cheap labor, but we are bitching about the drain of the cheap labor. We can’t have it both ways.

  • zingzing

    okay, so we can’t protect the borders, we can’t punish the employers… why do we waste our time?

    i think we should just give them texas. it’s a fucked up place anyway. plus, then we could go to south by southwest in mexico!

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    and another thing, we’ve now made it so ‘buy American’ is no different than buying from one of Kathy Lee Gifford’s indonesian sweat shops.

  • http://www.heartcrossings.blogspot.com heartcrossings

    Totally agree, Steve. Can’t blame the consumer – they can’t afford to pay the American rates for goods and services with how much they make. Which is why I think the focus should be on creating incentives for Mexicans to stay home instead of builing those moats.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Can’t blame the consumer – they can’t afford to pay the American rates for goods and services with how much they make.

    but look at how hypocritical this is. Americans can’t afford American rates. The solution here is for corporations to readjust their pricing. It makes no sense for a country to pay people 15 dollars an hour or more but then outprice them on the consumer end. We are cutting our own throats.

    One way to stop this is for corporations not having to pay 5 million dollars to some dweeb because he fell down.

    Which is why I think the focus should be on creating incentives for Mexicans

    I favor that, but I always get accused of nation building.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I said: One way to stop this is for corporations not having to pay 5 million dollars to some dweeb because he fell down.

    …and a much quicker remedy is to not pay the CEO 88 million a year.

  • http://www.heartcrossings.blogspot.com heartcrossings

    Some other things that might help : Let people work from home saves them commute time and money and daycare expenses too. Improve remote medical diagnostics technology so people can find the cheapest medical help from anywhere in the world from the comfort of their homes. Provide tax incentives for conserving energy.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Let people work from home saves them commute time and money and daycare expenses too.

    I work from home for precisely those reasons. I agree.

  • Arch Conservative

    zing ……….

    why is texas a “fucked up place”

    where do you live that’s so much better?

  • zingzing

    heh. america’s deathcamp, baby!

    where do you think i live? i’ll give you several guesses. i’ll give you some hints. coast. north. liberal. pretty. has every major sport except hockey. strange, that, considering.

  • Arch Conservative

    Washington

    I find it funny that someone from a state with Seattle would critisize Texas.

  • Nancy

    My guess was Maine, but they’re not liberal, or I didn’t think they were. Hey Gonzo, which way votes the state of Maine?

  • Arch Conservative

    Maine doesn’t have any major sports teams, it is on the coast and very pretty. It is also fairly liberal and tends to vote Democrat.

  • RedTard

    “Targeting and punishing the employers who exploit illegals will be almost as impossible as getting WalMart out of business. As long as there are consumers for cheap goods and services in America the jobs for the illegals is guaranteed.”

    Putting Walmart out of business is a silly fantasy by anti-business whores and shouldn’t even be associated with this topic as they don’t hire illegals. Shopping for some inexpensive goods and services is also legal and prudent.

    My guess is that if you kicked out a few illegals (or at least slowed down the pace of adding new ones) those low wages employees, the ones who work at WalMart, might find their job prospects picking up as people scrambled to replace their workforce the shortage might even cause the system to work as designed and raise their wages a bit. Then they could afford to move on up to shopping at Target. If they’re liberal they can then sneer with hatred at the WalMart crowds as they drive by.

    What kind of ninny ass whiners have we become? Is this ‘I can’t’ attitude the one that got us to the moon or made us the most rich and powerful nation on the planet?

    We can’t build a wall cause somebody might go round. We can’t cut off public assistance, that would be mean. We can’t punish employers cause some might be able to hide their workers. We can’t break our addiction from $.99 pieces of shit at the Dollar store. We can’t vote a plan because some voters are probably illegals and might not like it.

    Fuck you all, we can. We need a COMPREHENSIVE plan. I’m not sure what part of that you guys can’t understand. Not one half-measure, a group of policies to change the flow from illegals to legal immigration. Will it be perfect, no. Will it be enough to keep the southwest from slipping into an overcrowded, poverty stricken northern territory of Mexico, yes.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    zingaling: my family has been here less than 100 years. we were immigrants. this country has ALWAYS been a country of immigrants.

    The key word is “WERE”. That means YOU are not an immigrant, and neither are 90 per-cent of the current population. So we are NOT a country of immigrants.

    and my family didn’t march peacefully, they fought in the fucking streets. we murdered and burned and stole.

    You must be Sicilian.

    repel the invasion! go ahead. murder a mexican. go to jail. have fun!

    No need to resort to your own family’s Mafia tactics. And BTW it’s not just water we’re running short on. And while the Mexican invasion makes things worse, it is not even the main problem. Read on:

    In the supranational government, represented by the WTO, Codex Alimentarius, the ITU, etc., the citizens are not individual human beings, but rather corporations. Globalism is government of, by, and for the big multinationals. They want to see standards of living raised in all the third world countries so that they will have bigger markets and become even more monolithically powerful.

    It is this thrust, more than anything else, that will continue to put downward pressure on our own standard of living, for the simple reason that increasing demand for rapidly disappearing mineral resources raises the price of those resources, and thus increases the price of EVERYTHING to the American consumer.

    The U.S. Geological Survey estimates that even at current rates of consumption there are only a certain number of years before ALL remaining accessible below ground reserves are exhausted. This is basically all that’s left to be mined from that part of the earth’s crust that we can feasibly reach:

    Aluminum 100+ years
    Copper 67+ years
    Lead 48 years
    Nickel 100 years
    Zinc 54 years
    Silver 29 years
    Gold 34 years

    The world cannot continue to sustain the insanely high population level that the industrial revolution allowed it to shoot up to, much less the additional billions expected to be added over the remainder of this century, as a result of the enablement of runaway third world breeding.

    The United States can continue it suicidal participation in the new world order, and go down with it, or it can weather the coming storm by stopping its own runaway, immigration-fueled population growth, and becoming maximally self-sufficent.

    So zingy boy, sounds to me like you have a terminal case of complacency. If your not already, you damn well better start being paranoid as hell.

  • zingzing

    damn a.c., you’re good. seattle it is. beautiful place, wonderful culture, stupid smoking and touching-the-stripper laws… summer’s just around the corner, won’t you come visit me?

  • zingzing

    r.b.–hmm. sounds like the whole world is going to hell. so why is it that third world breeders are the problem and yet it’s we americans that use sooooo much of those natural resources? are we just greedy? maybe we should at ourselves too. the world’s population is a problem. but, the world’s population is the same if the world’s population lives in their own country, or our country.

    i’m not italian. or sicilian. and we weren’t gangsters…

  • Bliffle

    “Yes! Build a wall! The most free and admirable regimes in history have all built walls.”

    The alternative to walls seems to be wars (including invasions by disorganized unarmed foot soldier peasants), but I’m sure there are alternatives. I’m open to suggestions. The only thing I can think of is to lean Real Hard on the foreign (say, Mexican) government to open it’s borders the other way so that US businessmen can found and actually own businesses in Mexico, thus bringing to that land some of the blessings of a vigorous capitalistic economy. Otherwise you just have a failing feudal society invading a more prosperous neighbor to steal their stuff.

  • http://www.heartcrossings.blogspot.com heartcrossings

    Agree with Bliffle : “The only thing I can think of is to lean Real Hard on the foreign (say, Mexican) government to open it’s borders the other way so that US businessmen can found and actually own businesses in Mexico, thus bringing to that land some of the blessings of a vigorous capitalistic economy.”

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Fuck you all, we can. We need a COMPREHENSIVE plan. I’m not sure what part of that you guys can’t understand. Not one half-measure, a group of policies to change the flow from illegals to legal immigration. Will it be perfect, no. Will it be enough to keep the southwest from slipping into an overcrowded, poverty stricken northern territory of Mexico, yes.

    I disagree with this rant completely. A policy to change the flow of 11 million illegals to 11 million legals is not the answer. You have a fear of the southwest becoming a northern territory of Mexico, but by your solution there will still be 11 million immigrants there. (Not that that’s a bad thing, but it doesn’t solve your rant).

    We need to make Mexico a viable place to live. So American employers have no choice but to hire illegals in order to give us cheap stuff? Then hire them in Mexico. Then they can have jobs there and work through the legal system if they still choose to come here.

  • RedTard

    “We need to make Mexico a viable place to live.”

    That’s a great part of the solution, but it’s only part. Nation building can only truly be done by the native population. Unfortunately, all the people that are sick of Mexico’s policies simply run away to the US instead of pressing for positive change.

    We can only equalize the income gap by lowering our part, we can’t and probably shouldn’t try and control Mexican wages. I don’t want to see our standards come down any farther than they already are, although it might change some people’s perception of WalMart. On the world median income of $2,100/year you’d need all the low prices you can get.

    “but by your solution there will still be 11 million immigrants there.”

    I’m not some evil racist who hates Mexicans. I realize the hardships deporting them would create, the amoung of citizen children with illegal parents, the number of businesses that depend on the 11 million consumers that are already here. I’m not convinced it is practical or “right” to deport all that are here, I do know it is possible and not that difficult to slow the flow of new illegals by 90+%.

    Our great country can handle the 11 million plus some new legal immigrants every year. What we can’t handle is a constant flow of illegals indefinitely. We can’t maintain a permanent subclass of people within our borders with a different language, culture, and value system and not expect conflict.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    I realize the hardships deporting them would create

    I realize the hardships caused to Americans that NOT deporting them will cause to continue and worsen! The freeways in southern California are a nightmare. What about the hardship ON US of having to pay for the losing battle of road repair, expansion, and new construction that would NOT be necessary without the millions of illegals clogging and tearing up the roads.

    the amount of citizen children with illegal parents

    FUCK THIS NONSENSE. Eliminate RETROACTIVELY the insane policy of granting AUTOMATIC citizenship to children of illegals, based on a GEOGRAPHICAL ACCIDENT. A lot of them probably LIE about where their children were born! There’s no law that says you have to be born in a hospital. If some kid was born south of the border, all they have to do is claim he was born in the U.S., and who’s going to be able to prove otherwise!

    I’m not convinced it is practical or “right” to deport all that are here, I do know it is possible and not that difficult to slow the flow of new illegals by 90+%.

    It is perfectly right. But it’s going to take a long time to locate them. Hopefully the vast majority can be sent back to where they belong, but that will require taking the handcuffs OFF of the authorities so they can put them ON the illegals, without having to go through a bunch of expensive, taxpayer funded, legal “human rights” bullshit.

  • RedTard

    “Eliminate RETROACTIVELY the insane policy of granting AUTOMATIC citizenship to children of illegals”

    That would be an ex post facto law which is expressly forbidden in the constitution. I’ll agree that the law should be changed immediately. We are to blame as much as the illegals for the problem we have now and being bitter about it doesn’t move us forward.

    By not enforcing the immigration laws we essentially sent a message that it is OK to come here. There’s alot of unenforced laws on the books that many of us break. In Texas, carrying wirecutters or owning the encyclopedia britannica is technically illegal. We can’t do anything about the foolish policies of the past but we can change those of the future and stopping any further illegal immigration is a great start.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    From the U.S. Immigration Service

    The United States recognizes the U.S. citizenship of individuals according to two fundamental principles: jus soli, or right of birthplace, and jus sanguinis, or right of blood.

    The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees citizenship at birth to ALMOST [my emphasis] all individuals born in the United States or in U.S. jurisdictions, according to the principle of jus soli. Certain individuals born in the United States, such as children of foreign heads of state or children of foreign diplomats, do not obtain U.S. citizenship under jus soli.

    This is discriminatory. There is no reason to treat ordinary citizens of other countries any different than certain officials of those countries are treated.

    Certain individuals born outside of the United States are born citizens because of their parents, according to the principle of jus sanguinis (which holds that the country of citizenship of a child is the same as that of his/her parents).

    A consistent application of this principle would hold that the country of citizenship of a child of Mexican parents is the same as that of his/her parents, would it not?

    No new law is required, just a determination that the true intent of the existing law was not being observed. And that could be held to invalidate citizenships thus erroneously recognized – and so would not amount to ex post facto.

  • Arch Conservative

    Seattle is second only to San Fransisco in terms of cities with anti-American leftist loons.

    I’ll pass.

    I already live next to a state full of them.

    See if you can guess which state I am from zing. Ill give you some hints it’s one of the best states in the nation and we border the absolute worst state in the nation. We are on the coast. We don’t have any major sprts teams. Our state legislature is the third largest english speaking legislatur in the world behing the US Congress and British Parliament.

  • zingzing

    aww… seattle is nice. i like it. people seem to like america well enough… no major problems.

    i dunno… connecticut?

  • Arch Conservative

    Connecticut is a liberal shithole guess again

  • zingzing

    maine… northeast somewhere.

  • Arch Conservative

    maine is closer but still not right

  • zingzing

    n.h.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    New Hampshire

  • Arch Conservative

    Bingo

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Funny you don’t sound Catholic!

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    If you don’t like a global government where only corporations are given the rights of citizenship, you need to constitute a global government that will protect all human beings’ rights of citizenship.

    It’s too late to retreat to national governments. National governments have failed to secure the rights and prosperity of the majority of their citizens. The erosion of freedom and prosperity is slower in some areas than in others, but it will spread until it becomes universal, or until we realize the only force that can reverse this freefall is the united will of the entire human race.

    That’s something we are fully capable of achieving, and it’s fully compatible with the classic can-do optimism informing the best parts of the American culture.

  • RedTard

    The answer to government oppression is more government then. Interesting logic, unfortunately all too common.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    The answer to lawlessness is government.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    Victor,

    Without absolute power a global government could not possibly maintain itself against inevitable challenges by groups dissatisfied with its policies. And any attempt to outlaw dissatisfaction would only itself fuel dissatisfaction.

    Power always tends to consolidate itself along economic lines, and the most powerful economic forces will always attempt, and usually succeed in co-opting government bureaucracies ostensibly established for noble purposes. Example: the takeover of the Food and Drug Administration by the pharmaceutical industry, with the consequent subordination of individual health considerations to considerations of drug company financial health.

    Separate nations are the ONLY check and defense which the human race has, against the emergence of a completely totalitarian world government – a nightmare that could only become a reality if, God forbid, utopian dreamers like you ever manage to accumulate enough power.

  • Chicano

    IF it weren’t for my people, a gallon of milk would cost $10. There will always be immigration. This country was created by immigrants. It is a land of immigrants. Illegals have rights too. I hope this sparks a new movement. Latinos have been used for profit long enough. We have already changed the culture in many states. Florida is Cuban and is has bilingual education. Los Angeles is the second largest Mexican city. American culture always likes to eat up other Anglo-saxon culturers but never Arab or Latino cultures. Could it be fear of our skin? This will lead to strong nationalism until America accepts pluralism. It must or Latinos will speak up. Anglos could learn from the Chicano work ethic. I hear a lot about lazy Anglos in many industries. You guys also hate having many kids because of your selfishness. That’s pitiful. Latino’s fondness for big families stem from Aztec cultural traditions. Culture is hard to die in a nation where there is only one White Anglo-saxon way. To hell with that. I’ll retain my culture while eating up your’s; America 50 years from now.

  • Pizzdolph

    What was once a benefit to our country is now a full-scale overpopulation and societal crisis. From stem to stern, our English language is under assault and our schools are drowning in ethnic violence, drugs and gang warfare. In California, Texas, Florida and Arizona, our hospitals suffer bankruptcies from non-paid services for 350,000 annual ‘anchor babies’. Ten million illegal immigrants displace jobs from America’s working poor and depress wages for many others at a cost of $133 billion annually in lost jobs. Leprosy, tuberculosis, Chagas Disease, hepatitis and other diseases ‘pour’ into our country within the bodies of illegal immigrants who avoid health screening before coming on board the United States.

    (Commentary by Frosty Wooldridge
    February 26, 2004)

    Ten bucks for a gallon of milk don’t sound so bad after all!

  • Arch Conservative

    Illegals don’t have rights Chicano. You’re an arrogant twit and how long do you think you can act the way you do before legal Americans say enough is enough and start getting serious with you?

    You think we’re just gonna sit and watch as you put the Mexican flag over the American one?

    You think we’re going to continue to cater to you in Spanish?

    You think we’re give you whatever you want just because you threaten us?

    Fuck that.

    Your day of reckoing is fast approaching and it ain’t gonna be pretty pal.

  • Pizzdolph

    I gotta agree with you Arch, I wanted to reply something like that, but it was a bit more harsh and I would of probably got kicked out.

    good job!

  • Pizzdolph

    You know, in the 40’s, Germany had an immigration problem while their leader was at war with the world. The immigration problem was dealt with, and Germany fell with an unforgetable reputation.

    Today, America has an immigration problem and our leader is at war with the world.

    So whats the next step? Shall we fire up the ovens?

  • http://www.heartcrossings.blogspot.com heartcrossings

    Interesting to know Chicano’s POV. This the exactly the kind of strength (and hubris) that large and undocumented numbers bring.

  • Bliffle

    Chicano: “IF it weren’t for my people, a gallon of milk would cost $10.”

    Sez who? Or did you just invent that?

    “This country was created by immigrants.”

    So what? Does that convey a right to illegals to immigrate illegally?

    “Illegals have rights too.”

    No they don’t.

    “Latinos have been used for profit long enough.”

    By latinos, mostly. Look at the Mexico DF government!

    ” We have already changed the culture in many states. Florida is Cuban and is has bilingual education. Los Angeles is the second largest Mexican city.”

    And that is what has caused enormous resentment by legal US citizens: refusal to assimilate. Most US citizens do not want the culture of submission, ignorance and superstition that has reduced the Mexican citizen to a starving menial laborer.

    ” American culture always likes to eat up other Anglo-saxon culturers but never Arab or Latino cultures. Could it be fear of our skin?”

    You are the one who has raised the race issue, Chicano. US citizens are willing to accept people who are willing to acknowledge US values and not try to impose their corrupt and bankrupt cultural values on legal citizens. That’s why we don’t have “press 2 for Swedish, push 3 for German, push 4 for Russian, push 5 for Latvian,” etc on our phones. You have never had to wade thru “push 6 for Polish, Push 7 for Vietnamese…” when you use our telephone system.

    Grow up. Quit whining and learn to adapt.

  • Bliffle

    Chicano: “IF it weren’t for my people, …”

    What do you mean “…my people…”? Do you own them? Do you speak for all of them? Are you trying to stir up racial conflict? Do you want to pit your people against my people? Or against my friend Ts people, who are completely different? If you think you can win a race war you are a bigger fool than anyone can imagine.

  • Bliffle

    If we’re advocating Open Borders they have to be open BOTH ways. retired US citizens have to be able to go to Mexico and buy inexpensive homes, retire there and expect to hold onto the property and deploy the appreciated value as they see fit, and not have it confiscated. US businessmen have to be able to establish businesses and benefit therefrom without fear of interference from the Few Favored Families of Mexico. Are you, all you advocates of “illegals rights” and increased immigration, willing to advocate that quid pro quo? For without it you are supporting simple cross-border invasion. Are you willing to support the next step, invasion if the Mexican government violates the rights of legitimate US citizens with legitimate interests in Mexico?

    If US citizens could operate in Mexico with the freedom and the legal protections thay have in the states there would be a flowering of the Mexican economy that would dwarf the $50billion that Mexicans in the US send to Mexico every year to subsidize the moribund economies of their native villages. It would be a Modern Wonder of the world, but right now it is inhibited by the corrupt Mexican government that favors and protects those Favored Few.

  • Arch Conservative

    When you have Arch Conservative and Bliffle both saying you’re wrong….chances are……

    YOU’RE WRONG!

  • Nancy

    Sounds to me like we need to call on the scientist down in Texas who’s in favor of wiping out 1/2 the world population. Probably isn’t a bad idea, if you really think about it. Being totally honest, I myself am certainly not indispensible to the earth let alone society, & all these illegals even less. Ah…what’s that Gilbert & Sullivan ditty about “they’d none of them be missed….” Avian flu, where are you? Possible criteria: if you use/consume more resources than you produce in viable output/work, you’re outta here. Oh, well. So much for everyone I know….;)

  • RedTard

    “IF it weren’t for my people, a gallon of milk would cost $10.”

    If it wasn’t heavily subsidized to hold down the governments pretend inflation number it already would be. Almost every dairy farmer I know is white though, you might have the wrong industry.

  • Arch Conservative

    “IF it weren’t for my people, a gallon of milk would cost $10.”

    Oh really? If it weren’t for your people an MRI would cost about 10 bucks too.

    [Edited]

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    Every human being has rights, regardless of citizenship or documented immigration status. Governments sometimes fail to uphold those rights, but their failure does not stop the rights from existing. Anyone who cares about the United States Constitution enough to really study its underlying principles would know this.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    To Richard Brodie (comment #66),

    Separate national governments have failed to prevent the slow rise of corporate totalitarianism. People will grow weary of watching national governments repeatedly favor the interests of ruthless artificial corporate “individuals,” with devastating effects on the lives of real human individuals.

    The prospect of seeing the world’s people unite and establish a global system of governance to protect the rights of human individuals is not a utopian dream. It is the last, best hope for the long term survival of human freedom and dignity.

    Beyond that, it is the best hope for the human species to survive at all.

  • Bliffle

    Victor: “…the world’s people unite and establish a global system of governance to protect the rights of human individuals …”

    Yeah, sure. And the next week it’s taken over by the most ruthless corporate and mafia exploiters, targeted because of it’s unprecedented power to rule peoples lives and turn them into slaves. Sorta like the Russian revolution, except even bloodier and more oppressive. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    The trick is to REDUCE power. Break up monopolies.

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    “the trick is to REDUCE power. Break up monopolies.”

    Just as you don’t want a corporate monopoly over some particular business sector, so you sure as hell do not want a GOVERNMENT monopoly over the entire planet. The signs are ominous that such a movement is underway. And those governments most in favor of such globalistic notions as a UN takeover of the internet, are the most totalitarian ones.

    Read this from a CBS news article, and be scared:

    “In my opinion, freedom of speech seems to be a politically sensitive issue. A lot of policy matters are behind it.” So observed Houlin Zhao, the man who wants to control the greatest forum for free expression in history.

    Zhao, a director of the U.N.’s International Telecommunication Union (ITU) and a former senior Chinese-government official, is a leader in the United Nations’s effort to supplant the United States government in the supervision of the Internet. At a series of conferences called the World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held under the aegis of the ITU, the U.N. has floated a series of proposals for doing exactly that …

    Will the registration of a domain name, now a five-minute process for anyone with a credit card, eventually require approval from UNESCO? Will domain-registration fees, currently a few dollars per domain, skyrocket to subsidize websites for countries without electricity?

    Houlin Zhao may just be the world’s most dangerous man. People like Victory Plenty, advocates, supporters, and ideological enablers of the kind of evil global governance that this Chinese bureaucratic functionary represents, will deserve what they are going to get. Unfortunately the rest of us don’t.

  • zingzing

    what really bothers me about the quote is this: “the United States government […] supervis[es…] the Internet.” i know i had to chop that up a bit… so the US gov’t supervises the internet? really? what?

    so if a “global” gov’t were to “supervise” (what the hell is that?) the internet, what would the difference be? does this supervision thing the US gov’t is doing only have to do with the US? or do we supervise the world’s internet?

    if we supervise the world’s internet, the hell yeah, bring on the chinese fella and his global supervisors. what right do we have?

    either way, what the fuck is the gov’t doing “supervising” (what does that mean?) the internet?

    color me confused.

  • zingzing

    truth be told, i’m not too afraid of a chinese guy trying to control the internet. ain’t gonna happen. so, read the cbs article, and be paranoid.

  • RedTard

    Zing,

    Have you looked at the restrictions the Chinese place on the internet? I don’t want them controlling what I see either. Our government so far, with the exception of the xxx domain, has largely stayed out and the internet has flourished.

    Under UN control the European countries will want to block nazi stuff, the Chinese will want to block most political talk, do gooders will tax the shit out of the rich countries to pay for more aid to Africa, etc.

    The great thing about the internet is that it’s relatively cheap and you are basically free to say do as you please, both of those will change under UN control.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    zing: color me confused

    You’re confused alright. In one breath you say

    bring on the chinese fella

    implying it wouldn’t be such a bad thing, then you turn around and say:

    i’m not too afraid of a chinese guy trying to control the internet. ain’t gonna happen

    implying that it WOULD be a bad thing, just not too likely!

    Take one more look at Houlin Zhao’s bureaucratic horseshit double-talk:

    “In my opinion, freedom of speech seems to be a politically sensitive issue. A lot of policy matters are behind it.”

    What is he really saying? For him freedom of speech is not regarded as an absolute human right, but rather as an “issue”. And, yeah, it’s “politically sensitive” alright. The dictators in Beijing are acutely “sensitive” to it. “policy matters”? Yeah, the Chinese goverment’s policy regarding the “issue” of free speech is to put people in jail for exercising it, because they rightly see it as a threat which jeopardizes the stranglehold of power they wield over their enslaved population.

    And these are the type of scum who would rise to the highest levels of power in ANY global government, such as the one Mr. Plenty foolishly blathers about.

  • zingzing

    oh, twist my words around. ignore what i say. and ignore my questions. why is our gov’t “supervising” the internet? and why aren’t we stopping them from doing it? like i said, i’m not too afraid of a global “supervision” of the internet, because it’s not something you can really “supervise.” if it’s like anything else in the UN, an extremely weak group of people will sit up there and talk about doing just about nothing. who gives a fuck?

    no one is going to let the chinese decide what is free speech or not. jesus. that would be like letting the u.s. make up the rules for fat content. let go of paranoia. if you don’t recognize it, it looks like that bong you smoked a second ago.

  • zingzing

    “do gooders will tax the shit out of the rich countries to pay for more aid to Africa…”

    what? since when do “do gooders” on the internet get to “tax the shit” out of anyone, especially to pay for “more” aid to Africa? gov’ts tax their own people… not… the internet doesn’t tax… what the fuck are you saying?

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    why is our gov’t “supervising” the internet?

    The “supervision” role our government exercises is to make sure the internet stays free, and that control of the root file is not grabbed by sinister international forces who have a desire to impose various kinds of censorship.

    i’m not too afraid of a global “supervision” of the internet, because it’s not something you can really “supervise.”

    It would be very easy to control what can and cannot be said on the internet. The UN has already blatantly admitted that if it can wrest control of domain allocation away from ICANN (a neutral organization which has no political agenda), it will not allow the existence of any website that is critical of its own policies. And governments like China and Vietnam are salivating over the possiblities of being able to stifle speech that THEY don’t want to see allowed.

    since when do “do gooders” on the internet get to “tax the shit” out of anyone

    So far they don’t. But with the UN in control, they will most certainly avail themselves of domain resistration fees as a way to raise revenues (which means TAX, in case you don’t know) to finance an endless number of boondoogles on their wish list.

  • zingzing

    well, leave the ICANN in control of domain allocation. retain free speech on the internet. i don’t think the government should have any role in “supervising” internet. if they do, however, and since this is a “world wide” internet, why not hand it over to the UN, who, if they handle it properly, may be able to actually OPEN UP the internet in those places that live under censorship? wouldn’t it do the world some good? obviously, censor-free countries wouldn’t stand for censorship.

    if china’s internet were free, the world would be a better place. if the UN tried to censor anything, there would be quite an uproar, have no doubt about it.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    If you want to fully understand the US government’s role in supervising the Internet, read up on the history of how the Internet came to exist in the first place. Wikipedia is as good a place as any to get started on that.

    Briefly, at this time, government agencies do very little management of the Internet. They mainly supervise the protocols used to make the Internet work, and manage some key pieces of hardware that carry the Net’s data. Very little is done to restrict any of the content flowing through those channels and using those protocols.

    Opponents of continuing US supervision for the Internet claim the Americans will eventually try to restrict international criticism of their government’s policies. Opponents of internationalizing Internet supervision claim the UN, China, and others would try to censor American opinions disagreeing with internationalism.

    As for me, I am neither a nationalist nor an internationalist. I tend to support world federalism, which is not exactly the same thing as internationalism.

  • zingzing

    ok, let’s see what happened the last time the UN tried to stop “america” (read: bushco) from doing what it wanted to. oh yeah. we went ahead and did it anyway. we won’t stand for censorship. what do we have to worry about? free up the other countries. see if it works. give it a shot.

    or take away any gov’t “supervision” of the internet.

    either one. i don’t care.

  • Bliffle

    “…read up on the history of how the Internet came to exist in the first place. Wikipedia is as good a place as any to get started on that.”

    Wikipedia is the LAST place I’d look, since they’ve developed a bad rep. But I don’t have an alternative source for you. I know what I experienced in the 50s in grad school, which was that ARPA was just sheets of mimeographed paper with paper titles, school, author and contact info. We sent them around in the US mail. If you wanted one you’d write (phone calls were too expensive, mail was only 3 cents). Then around 1960 IBM let us ride the 1050 network they’d developed to support 1401 computer field problems. The 1050 was (basically) a Selectric typewriter wired to an asynch communications adapter which was usually hardwired to a leased line to a central hub in the southeast US, maybe Raleigh. Pretty primitive. About that time the DoD horned in claiming that many of the papers were written under DoD contract so they had dibs. So it became DARPA. But lackadaisically. The old university guys started developing a computer-to-computer network which became internet. IBM wasn’t interested because it wasn’t proprietary and DoD didn’t like it either for security reasons, so they let it go. The basic architecture defied control, so they weren’t interested. I suspect that if DoD and/or IBM had been interested and applied their huge influence that today we’d have some flavor of SNA, and there’d be about 10 users outside the university/military hierarchy, like me and thee. And the general public would have no notion of What Might Have Been. Internet was a stealth project. But all those Big Guys would sure like to control it, and they will try.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    Those opposed to ratifying the US Constitution called it evil, claiming it would lead to tyranny. They were mistaken.

    The paranoia of folks like Richard Brodie will also prove to be wrong. National governments will take their proper place in a worldwide federal system, and tyranny will not be the result.

    Government will neither wither away, nor grow to totalitarian dimensions. It will perform its intended role of protecting human rights, when people demand that and remain engaged enough at all times to make sure it happens, rather than letting themselves be constantly distracted.

  • Pizzdolph

    Please read.

    Commentary by Frosty Wooldridge
    February 26, 2004

    Much like the Titanic that sank on April 15, 1912, the Unites States stands at a critical juncture in the history of our nation. Few realize it, but, like the Titanic, this nation smashed into a piece of legislation in 1965 that was never asked for or approved by the American public. Our ‘Captain’ Lyndon Baines Johnson along with helmsman Senator Teddy Kennedy drove America into an ‘iceberg’ of massive, unrestricted immigration that opened up the flood gates with the ‘IMMIGRATION REFORM ACT’.

    At first, the flow of one million immigrants annually wasn’t noticed. We offered benevolence. Our country stood large on the opportunity landscape. There was plenty of room and resources.

    However, the massive flow of humanity from that ‘hit’ still pours into our country 38 years later and few seem to notice–much like the party-goers and dancers on the Titanic that kept up for hours after hitting the iceberg in the North Atlantic. However, even the invincible Titanic could not survive the onslaught from the constant flow of incoming water–slowly, methodically stealing her ability to stay afloat.

    Today in the United States, 70 million immigrants later and pouring in at 2.3 million annually–both legal and illegal–our nation shudders from San Francisco to New York and from Chicago to Miami. We rose from 200 million to nearly 300 million in three decades. What was once a benefit to our country is now a full-scale overpopulation and societal crisis. From stem to stern, our English language is under assault and our schools are drowning in ethnic violence, drugs and gang warfare. In California, Texas, Florida and Arizona, our hospitals suffer bankruptcies from non-paid services for 350,000 annual ‘anchor babies’. Ten million illegal immigrants displace jobs from America’s working poor and depress wages for many others at a cost of $133 billion annually in lost jobs. Leprosy, tuberculosis, Chagas Disease, hepatitis and other diseases ‘pour’ into our country within the bodies of illegal immigrants who avoid health screening before coming on board the United States. Even worse, clashing cultures with religions that celebrate ‘female genital mutilation’ and subjugation of women are growing in enclaves around our country. As Lincoln said, “A house divided against itself can not stand.”

    On the environmental front, our nation explodes toward an added 200 million people that will reach ½ billion past the mid century. We are creating an ‘irreversible crisis’ with ‘unsolvable problems’. California will add 20 million in 30 years. Colorado will add five million by mid century. Arizona will add four million. They already don’t have enough water. Florida can not survive another five million people. New York shudders with its population problems. Air pollution poisons what we breathe and massive sprawl devours our once lauded spaciousness. Species extinction accelerates as we add numbers. Much like the Titanic, our standard of living drops and our quality of life sinks with the influx of unrestricted immigration. Soon, we too, will become like the countries of Bangladesh, India and China.

    On the employment front, our leaders are outsourcing and offshoring our jobs to Third World countries while they import the Third World into our country. Our Congress created H-1B and L-1 visas that have displaced one million high tech American workers in the past decade. America’s middle class is being driven into the unemployment lines. Our schools are becoming dysfunctional towers of Babel with over 140 languages. We can not stay afloat with this kind of linguistic chaos. Additionally, we’re moving toward ‘Third World Momentum’, which means, the more we import millions of Third World immigrants, the more we manifest identical problems.

    Yes, we have compassion for immigrants, but it’s our country and our children. Their leaders need to take care of them in their countries. Unfortunately, Congress and the leadership of this nation refuse to step below the water line to see how fast we are sinking. We’re $6.92 trillion in debt. There were 20 different languages on the California recall ballot. Whose country is this anyway? Our leaders are standing in the wheelhouse totally insulated and isolated from those of us who shovel the coal, build houses, repair cars, teach our kids, drive school busses and plow roads.

    On a sobering environmental note, do you want your children ‘struggling’ in our country with an added 200 million more people past mid century? California will add 20 million while each state will add an average of four million. Quality of life and standards of living will sink as the population rises. We can not save the world, but we can destroy our country if we fail to act. The more extreme our numbers, the more extreme our consequences.

    Like the Titanic that cracked in half before plunging to the depths because no one stopped the incoming water, the United States like all great nations before us, could sink. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all civilizations rise and fall, and that, “An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.”

    You can see the signs all around our country. If you look about you, we’re shuddering from bow to aft—from the stacks to the rudder. Who is steering our nation and why are they heading toward more icebergs instead of changing course? What can you do? You are just as much an American patriot as Paul Revere, Betsy Ross, Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, Susan B. Anthony, Lincoln and the soldiers from Valley Forge to the Jungles of Vietnam and deserts of Iraq. It’s time to start riding, stitching, writing, charging, demonstrating and fighting for our country within our country. We must enforce a 10 year ‘time out’ immigration moratorium to get our house in order. Go to my web site for specific action items. Send those items to all you know and ask them to do the same. Via the Internet, we might prove Toynbee wrong.

    Since our leaders won’t stop this invasion of an ‘unarmed army’ of legal and illegal immigrants, it’s up to you. Our children face a dangerous future if we fail to take action. It wasn’t George Washington who beat the British army. It was every militiaman who shot from fence lines and trees. It wasn’t Ike who won WWII. It was every GI who slung a rifle over his soldier. Susan B. Anthony marched and Dr. Martin Luther King demonstrated. They, in their time, paid the price for defending America so we could enjoy our freedom. This is your time.

    [Frosty Wooldridge is a teacher and author who has bicycled 100,000 miles on six continents to see overpopulation up close and ugly. His next book: ‘Incursion Into America’ is due out in June 2004.]

  • Pizzdolph

    Go here to see just how the government is watching the internet. Are our rights being violated? Can the American people organize to even try and make a stand to do something about the immigration problem?

  • Chicano

    Frosty the Snowman is an imbecile. The U.S. will never be like India or China because the U.S. is past the indutrial – age dumbass. CHina is currently going through that phase and India doesn’t even know what that phase means. Tuberculosis is not contagious.

    As long as America keeps fighting wars for resources and not true democracy, there will always be immigration. Immigration is a natural instinct. Borders are not natural. What’s going to kill America is all the stupid people and leaders; ie. Bush. I say, if MExicans were mandated to speak english before becoming citizens 25 years ago, we wouldn’t have such a problem. BUt then again, America has never truly given a fuck about minorities has it Pizzdolph.

    As long as illegals remain invisible slaves unable to vote or drive, their children will suffer in the inner cities. Not the suburbs, but L.A., Chicago, Miami, Detroit, Houston. Once we give citizenship, they will benefit the country more than they already do by taking higher technology jobs. It took a racist moron to start reform. I thank all the racists out there that brought this issue to light. Thank you 400 or so retarded minute men. Cheers fuckers! haha!

  • http://arthshastra.com Vikas Chowdhry

    A point well made. I wish more people would talk about the interminable wait for the legal work based immigration for knowledge workers. It seems like all Congress cares about is grape/cherry/orange pickers in California.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    The special treatment for illegals doesn’t end with a free pass to violate federal immigration law with impunity.

    A time honored American tradition, is getting a family business started on one’s own private residential property – think: The Hewlett-Packard Garage. Increasingly onerous and inflexible city codes have made this possiblity more and more difficult, thereby contributing to a slowdown in economic growth at the all-important small business level, with consequent negative impact on the overall standard of living.

    City “code enforcement” people, not being pistol packing law enforcement types, are chicken to go into the Mexican barios that exist in every border-state city and town. Backyard start-up activities flourish in those kinds of communities (some legal, like car repair, some illegal, like drug dealing) because the only people city enforcement officials feel safe about harrassing are citizens, in areas of traditional ethnic concentrations.

    So on every front illegal aliens are treated with special accomodation, while ordinary Americans are left to pay the price.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    According to Congressman Gary Miller’s website, there are 2.2 million illegal immigrants in California accounting for 32% of the overall total of illegal immigrants nationwide. (as of Sept. 2004).

    According to about.com, these illegal immigrants are costing California 10 billion a year. (as of Dec. 2004).

    So what we have are over 2 million people who are draining 1/40th of what a single Exxon CEO is draining.

  • http://ikl sUrEnO

    fuck yall hatrz wit out us yall woulnt be any were Yall hatrz

  • http://ikl sUrEnO

    FUCK yall

  • bob

    i love beaners

  • tim

    There are kids reading this.