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CIA Closes bin Laden Department

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greetings gentle Readers….

it hit the news a few days ago, all the print media covered it, but it appears to have escaped the attention of the TV types…

on orders from Intel bigwig, Negroponte, the CIA closed it's Osama bin Laden division

now, color me bewildered here…i had thought that bin Laden was public enemy #1 and top of the Bush "better off dead" list since 9/11

but the only excuse it appears being given was cited by Reuters as coming from an anonymous official…

The bin Laden unit, codenamed Alec Station, became less valuable as a separate operation as counterterrorism operations eliminated top al Qaeda operatives and the movement's focus shifted more to regional networks of militants, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

it also appears that this task force unit was shut down last year, but the news of it is just coming out now…possibly due to the usual annual budgetary bickering…

now…my concern here is that of the whole Responsibility thing, and Bush's statement of not resting until bin Laden is either captured or killed…after all , as the NYT reported last tuesday…

the bin Laden unit was disbanded late last year and quoted its first director, author Michael Scheuer, as predicting the move would denigrate the CIA's effort to find bin Laden

we have pretty damn good evidence that bin Laden was directly responsible for 9/11…hell, we rightfully invaded Afghanistan to oust the Taliban and catch the bastard

but now he is a "lower priority" ?

and that makes me Wonder just where and what the Administration's "priorities" are concerning their "war on terror"

by this action, it doesn't appear that catching the Mastermind behind al Qaeda is one of them

just my one sixth billionths of the world's Opinion….

Excelsior?

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About gonzo marx

  • Dave Nalle

    Let me ask you this, Gonzo. Are we in a war on terror or a personal vendetta against one man?

    Or answer this one. If bin Laden is dead will terrorism stop?

    Consider. Might it not be a more effective use of resources to try to stop the actual terrorists who are killing people than one sick old man in a cave who we spend a lot of resources to not find – probably because he’s already dead.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    ok….

    both

    nope, but you will have cut the head off the Beast…and that counts a lot among a people to whom “face” matters….the Fact that he planned and accomplished the Attacks on 9/11 are what has emboldened so many to think they can take on the U.S….remove him, and hold him up to public Trial, and you destroy the Myth and expose the man…this NEEDS to be done, just liek MUllah Omar and the “Cloak of Mohammed” needs to be captured, if not…then it will never end

    and you consider…if he dies ro disappears withot ever being found and proven guilty very publicly…the Myth wins, and we lose

    also consider, you are talking about a handful of Agents and some computers…what Price to catch the man responsible for 9/11? aren’t you one of those who advocated the multi billion dollar fiasco of Iraq? why that?

    capturing and publicly trying bin Laden is priority #1 in this Conflict… any who have a glimmer fo understanding of the people we face should know this… and the most powerful nation on earth should sure as hell be able to afford tracking down that “sick old man” and bring him to trial

    don’t we owe at least that to the 3000 plus dead people?

    Excelsior?

  • Nancy

    Plus the “one sick old man” still has one very active sick old brain to use against us, and that ain’t gonna stop til he’s dead.

    The explanation I heard via WTOP is that the functions of the unit have been taken over & parcelled out among “other” intelligence/ counterterrorism units & They (whoever makes these decisions) decided it was a waste of resources to duplicate efforts so they terminated the special bin Laden unit.

    I find this failure to capture or kill bin Laden to be deeply suspect. Personally (but I love conspiracy theories anyway) I think BushCo is waiting until they really, Really, REALLY need a major boost in public opinion, at which time they’ll arrange for his end just like they did Zarqawi’s. BTW, BushCo is vigorously denying they bought delivery of Zarqawi in order to provide a political boost to W., altho several reputable sources apparently have connfirmed it. Why this should be a problem, I don’t know, because personally I applaud getting Zarqawi by any means, including bribery or outright purchase.

    Of course, bin Laden is said to be hiding in the border mts. of Pakistan, always a rather difficult area topographically, politically, and law-enforcement-wise (gross understatement here). Still & all, I don’t doubt if we’d wanted him, we could have had him by now – hence my belief BushCo is reserving him for a truly desperate need in future.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    Are we in a war on terror or a personal vendetta against one man?

    We are in a quandary that has lost sight of its own purpose. The reason that the War On Terror started in the first place was to bring Osama bin Laden to justice.

    We invaded Afghanistan in order to capture him, not to bring down the Taliban. We had been negotiating with the Taliban as a friendly government until 9/11. We were perfectly content to leave them in power if they were to hand over Osama. Did we invade a nation, topple their government, and create a political tempest that still exists in Afghanistan to this moment, all for the sake of a cause that we have now decided wasn’t that important in the first place?

    Meantime we seem to have no problem allocating resources to the trial and imprisonment of Saddam Hussein–another single, sick old man–who was far less dangerous to the United States than is bin Laden.

  • http://www.1bigdragon.blogspot.com Peter J

    Gonzo, You’re 100% on this one!
    Bush stood in front of the world and and showed his balls with ‘We’re gonna smok’im out of his cave’, ‘Bring it on’ bullshit and now we’re going to show the world what America’s really all about; Bullshit! We’re the big kid in the schoolyard backing down from the little punk!
    I guess it’s just not worth the time and effort to bring to justice the man we were TOLD by the Bush administration orchestrated the events on 9-11.
    What the fuck is going on in this Country? This is Not the America I grew up in , this is some reasonable facsimile, a one dimensional picture of America! Krist, we hunted down Nazi war criminals for over fourty years! Do we, all of a sudden, have such a short attention span that we tire over hunting down ONE man who not only represents the head of the Beast but in our governments own words was responsible for the largest terrorist attack in history! Since when do we STAND DOWN? This is fuckin ‘Twilight Zone’!
    This is an absolute fucking outrage and anyone who can sit back and say ‘well , he’s just not worth the effort’ has just become exactly what the Bush administration wants from all of us! A Stepford Citizen! Goddamit, aren’t you even just a little pissed off that Bush keeps fuckin this Country up in every way it could but now they’re actually succeeding in bringing otherwise rational people into their warped thinking of Patriotism?
    It’s so ironic that we’re two days passed celebrating our Independence day and people were writing proud,weepy, patriotic letters about how brave our Minutemem were for standing up to an entire Nation for their Freedom, for OUR freedom, and now here we are just tossing it all away because it’s just not worth it.
    Gonzo, You’re right and to even suggest otherwise is a slap in the face to every American who ever died in any way standing up for our frreedom and respect!

  • http://www.booklinker.blogspot.com Deano

    I can understand there may be internal reasons to shut down the Bin Ladin unit. Until 9/11, counter-terrorism took a back-seat within the CIA and national security apparatus. In the Post 9/11 world, it has become a much wider, more encompassing priority for the intelligence community so the Bin Ladin unit might now be superflueous to an extent, its efforts being duplicated or taken over by a larger operation.

    With regards to using a Bin Ladin surprise for political gain – I think it unlikely as Bush etc. couldn’t control it effectively enough. My guess is that Bin Ladin changes locations relatively frequently – often enough that even if they knew his exact location they wouldn’t dare do nothing because it would change within days.

    The key piece is pinpointing that “last 100 yards” to the target and getting mission elements in place before he moves or vanishes. Bin Ladin probably has his own intelligence sources within Pakistani intelligence, military and police, so gets tipped off when activity heads in his direction.

    The reality is that he is less important as a hard target – on the run it is doubtful he can coordinate any Al Quaeda activities etc.. he is more of a symbolic target, but still a critical one.

  • Nancy

    Well, I did say he was hiding out in very difficult terrain of all types. But keeping him for a political coup wouldn’t surprise me. Besides, as I pointed out, I love conspiracy theories, especially involving my #1 favorite villain, W; you could tell me W. engineered the murder of Archduke Frederick & I’d be happy with it.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    That doesn’t exactly boost your credibility on these matters, Nancy…

  • Nancy

    LOL, well my understanding is that among some of BGers I don’t have any anyway, so what’s to lose? Humor, MJW, humor: if I can’t laugh at myself & my predilictions, etc. …..

  • Bliffle

    And Dave Nalle adroitly swerves to follow the party line. Reminds me of the clever moves of the CPUSA during the Stalin Moscow Trials.

  • Maurice

    Have to agree with gonzo on this one.

    Disagree with Dave. We have enough resources for combat and our personal vendetta.

    Nancy, Ken Lay is still alive somewhere.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    thanks to all who have taken the time to read my drivel and share yer Thoughts…

    it is interesting that we have some folks from both sides of the political spectrum appearing to agree that this bastard needs to be taken down…

    my Point here is that this Conflict is abotu ideology and symbology…with bin Laden currently winning amongst those who would strap bombs to themselves and blow up civilians…

    as long as they keep thinking of him as the “robin hood” little David who took a clean shot at the “great satan” goliath of the U.S. and GOT AWAY WITH IT…then his Myth > than ours

    in the realms of ideological conflict, those Myths and the perceptions derived form them matter a helluva lot more than bullets or facts…

    just ask those folks at Lexington and Concord

    i am NOT putting bin Laden or his bunch of criminals in the same league as our Founders..let me cut that off there….

    what i AM saying is that our CIA taught the saudi bastard everything he knows about how to wage this type of “war”..and he was a gfood student

    unfortunately it seems those on our side who are tasked with fighting him, are not

    there IS a reason i chose the Book i did for my Amazon link in this Article, the man on the cover is one of the foremost anti-terrorism experts ever, and due to Dick Cheney when he was SecDef…we lost his services and he spent 2 years in federal prison for spending 100k on HK rifles for team Six…that was the excuse, the real reason was he woudln’t kiss ass…but would do anything to achieve his Objective

    how do i know all this? i was on the ship that the original meeting between my Admiral and Marchinko took place when Team Six was conceived…and that’s all i’ll get into on that topic, but suffice to say, it is a major factor in my Viewpoint of Cheney and his ilk in the current Administration

    Excelsior?

  • http://parodieslost.typepad.com mschannon

    One of Gonzo’s main points is that the administration changes its story and it’s policies as frequently as Imelda Marcos changed shoes. Anyone who thinks they have any credibility left must be suffering from a mental disorder where chaos feels normal.

    What’s distressing is the apparent lack of a coherent foreign policy re: terrorism and international politics that not only Americans but the rest of the world can understand.

    There’s nothing scarier than a group of wild things carrying the biggest gun in town & you never quite know who they’re going to point it at or when they’re going to shoot it.

    Any student of foreign policy knows that consistency is probably the single most important factor in being able to get anything done…our total lack of consistency is why Iran, N. Korea, Iraq, Afghanistant, Nigeria, and lord knows how many other countries have no fear of us at all.

    In Caffeine Veritas

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    well…it looks like i was a bit ahead of the curve

    it seems that the TV MSM is just now catching onto this Story…i’m listening to them bicker on Hardball now, and it appears from another BC article that it his CNN earlier today

    funny how the GOP shills are trying to say bin Laden just doesn’t matter…

    i still say the bastard needs to be held up in a very public Trial, for the reasons i have stated previously

    in the war of Ideas, symbols count

    Excelsior?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    And Dave Nalle adroitly swerves to follow the party line.

    Damn, Bliff. I didn’t know there WAS a party line. And which party was that, since most Republicans who I’ve heard on this topic have condemned the move.

    I’m just more concerned about the larger issue of the war on terror than I am about revenge on bin Laden. We’ll get him eventually one way or another, but there’s a hell of a lot of other work to be done which ought to have priority.

    Just today they broke up a cell which was planning to bomb the New York subway tunnel system later this year.

    Dave

  • http://adamash.com Adam Ash

    It really is a mystery why the Bush Admin gave up on trying to catch Bin Laden long ago. I can’t think of a single reason why they have.

    Do they figure they need him alive so they can continue to scare us about “terror” when our chances of drowning in our bath tubs are greater than being killed by terrorists?

    Don’t they feel any sense of vengeance against the guy who paid for 3,000 Americans to be slaughtered?

    I can’t work this one out. What does Bin Laden have to do before we go after him?

    Why don’t we put 50,000 troops on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border and comb the area till they find the bastard and fry his ass? That’s how I want my tax dollars spent – not on occupying Iraq.

  • http://adamash.com Adam Ash

    Dave, for god’s sake, come to your senses. There is no higher priority than getting Bin Laden. He’s got a fortune with which he finances wingnuts. He’s the biggest symbol of extremist Islam. He’s a goddam cancer. If we got him, it would be our biggest victory against “terror” ever. We would take down the major inspiration of Islamofascists everywhere. He’s priority #1.

    The mystery is, why isn’t he the #1 priority of the Bush Administration? Could it be because he doesn’t sit on an ocean of oil? Because Halliburton wouldn’t make money out of his death?

  • troll

    just speculating – if captured or killed bin Laden becomes highly motivating as a martyr…which myth is easier to deal with – ?

    troll

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    If bin Laden is everything you say he is, Adam, then under your criteria he would be the utter highest priority, because if he’s as influential as you say then his removal would tear down many obstacles to the more peaceful conditions which would bring profit to Halliburton and the oil industry.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    troll Asks…
    *just speculating – if captured or killed bin Laden becomes highly motivating as a martyr…which myth is easier to deal with – ?*

    dead or disappeared, he becomes a Martyr…thus a Myth

    caught, and tried in public with due Process….then locked in a 10 by 12 cell for 23 hours a day….that is showing him as the criminal he is….no more, no less

    your mileage may vary

    Excelsior?

  • SonnyD

    Well, gonzo, it looks like I’ll have to put my 2 cents worth in since no one else has even come close to mentioning what seems obvious to me.

    Why don’t we have 50,000 men searching those mountains? Throw in some planes and helicopters and satellite cameras, too. We could have pictures of every trail in that whole area by now. Why can’t we find one sick old man? Because he isn’t there – never has been – and they know it.

    Of course, they hoped to find him when they invaded Afghanistan, but he was probably long gone before the troops even landed. One thing you can say for bin Laden, he’s not stupid and he plans ahead.

    He was not in the habit of living lavishly as most of the rich men in the Middle East do, but I would guess he was used to living comfortably. I just can’t see him not planning ahead for what he would do when the inevitable invasion came following 9/11.

    He is still a rich man and has enough rich friends who believe in his cause and would be willing to take him in and protect him. He could be anywhere. Jordan, maybe, or even Saudi Arabia. Now, tell me, if we suspect where he may be or even are pretty sure where he is, how are we going to get to him? Invade another country just to look for one man? Start dropping bombs on his friends estates (or walled compounds)? What can we do but watch and wait for him to slip up.

    But you can bet your last bottle of single-malt booze the one thing Bush wants more than any thing else in the world is to get bin Laden. The “Wanted-Dead or Alive” speech was the one time he got away with expressing how he really felt. Then his handlers-and his wife-got hold of him and made him tone it down. But, did you see the press conference where he said something to the effect of, “To tell you the truth, I’m not really worried about where Osama is right now.” Did you see the little hint of a smile on his face when he said that? Right then I thought he knows where Osama is.

    So they pretend they are looking for him to be hiding out in some cold dark cave on the Pakistan border while they continue to round up the rest of the Taliban who are still giving them some trouble. Is it any wonder they are not spending millions of dollars looking for bin Laden?

  • Dave Nalle

    Chances are that we’ll catch bin Laden when the guy living in the condo next to him in Islamabad rats him out to the local police.

    Dave

  • troll

    *caught, and tried in public with due Process….then locked in a 10 by 12 cell for 23 hours a day….that is showing him as the criminal he is….no more, no less*

    becoming a political prisoner is a time honored road to legend – I can see it now…a whole ‘letters from prison’ series appearing on your favorite Jihad blog

    troll

  • Clavos

    …”a whole ‘letters from prison’ series appearing on your favorite Jihad blog”…

    …followed by a MIchael Moore film.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    troll… no letters from the SuperMax, you disappear from the face of the earth

    the Effects of such a capture and public and fair Trial is to show that he is just a man, just a criminal…and he has been caught

    better a Man in Jail, than a Myth haunting forever, or a Martyr to the Cause, imo

    i just don’t “see” any better Answer to the Equation

    SonnyD….. this Thought had not escaped me, but i also remember “dead or alive” and “public enemy number one”

    and i disagree…if Bush “wanted” him so badly, why the distraction of Resources ? both from Afghanistan (where, when we thought he was in Tora Bora, those 50,000 Marines and SEALS didn’t go in…the local “warlords” did…curious, eh?) and now from the CIA?

    why did we find out about it just hours before i posted this in a Story i found on Reuters but which was first broke on NPR?

    strange, how me..who is NOT any kind of Reporter, would have this one up and online more than 12 hours before the TV MSM carried it? the print media (online editions) hit the Net about half an hour before i Posted this

    as i’ve said before, there are TWO major Symbols that need to be dealt with to even begin the Ending of this Conflict…

    bin Laden…the Davie/Robin Hood, who has bloodied the nose of the Goliath “great Satan”…and even more IMportant, but we in the West don’t realize it…

    Mullah Omar, head of the Taliban and the al Qaeda “spiritual Leader”…whom all of Islam believes is in posession of the “Cloak of Mohammed”, which is like the “Spear of Longinus” is to Christians…a Holy Relic that makes the bearer Invincible due to being held special by “god”, and thus unstoppable by mere mortal enemies

    as long as it is Perceived both these Symbols are loose and untouched by Justice, then those mullahs and imans who would wish harm to others can use them for motivation and as a rallying cry

    you can’t fight that with guns and bombs

    as i stated, if they die or disappear, the War doesn’t end in at least a generation

    if ever…

    your mileage may vary

    Excelsior?

  • troll

    (I was going to respond to Clavos’ MM funny with “about how the bin Laden family refused to pony up with a large enough bribe for the Bush family to keep their wayward son a fugitive”

    but gonzo is in serious mode)

    IMO – disappear bin Laden in the deepest hole and his cult will continue

    troll

  • Bliffle

    “Damn, Bliff. I didn’t know there WAS a party line. And which party was that, since most Republicans who I’ve heard on this topic have condemned the move.”

    The Presidential Power Party, headed by Cheney, which has temporarily taken over the republican party, and which avers All Power To The President as long as we control him.

    OBL has spoken of planning the London 7/7 attack, so he is not quiescent, propaganda-wise anyhow.

    If this is a war of ideas or cultures or whatever abstraction, even if the capture of OBL is symbolic rather than tactical, it still serves strategic purposes.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    troll…the cult of his immediate followers will continue…but kids will stop buying/wearing his face on a t-shirt

    as has been proven with charismatic leaders in the course of human history…remove the Myth, and all else dies out soon after…the impetus of the unthinking emotionalization of motivation removed…

    but if the Myth is allowed to flourish unchecked, then you are struggling against an Idea which cannot be defeated

    Excelsior?

  • http://adamash.com Adam Ash

    I’d vote for any Presidential candidate who says his/her platform is to go after Bin Laden and catch the bastard.

    That might be a good theme for an anti-GOP candidate: “the Rpublicans don’t want to get Bin Laden, but I do.”

  • troll

    *the impetus of the unthinking emotionalization of motivation removed…*

    to get this effect I think your emphasis on Mullah Omar is correct as religious interpretation and authority is driving the imagination for many

    both bin Laden and the mystic only point to the deeper problem back in Saudi Arabia

    troll

  • troll

    Adam – I was going to comment on your thread that you had the right idea but wrong catchy slogan but this post of your got here first – ‘soft on bin Laden’ beats ‘Enron fraud’ for sure

    troll

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    troll, i agree…

    to me , their are Janus like Aspects to the dilemma…

    bin Laden as one Face, the “odysseus” and Omar (whom i think of as the MUCH greater overall Threat) as the holder of the “magic” Item delegating authority from “deity” and thus able to speak “righteuosly”

    imo, a “perfect storm” as far as ideological Conflict goes… and should be a Primary concern, rather than the fiasco of Iraq

    just my one sixth billionths of the world’s Opinion…

    Excelsior?

  • SonnyD

    gonzo: #32 Just what do you mean by “Primary concern”? Isn’t that exactly what declaring war against terrorism is? But then you keep saying that you can’t declare war against a noun. I can’t see diplomacy having any effect. How do you propose this threat should be handled? If you are going to criticize, shouldn’t you offer some suggestions for a solution?

    As to the fiasco of Iraq, agreed. But only in so far as the timing was the worst possible. The way it was handled after the initial invasion was also poor, but there were reasons that haven’t been recognized for that.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    troll…the cult of his immediate followers will continue…but kids will stop buying/wearing his face on a t-shirt

    Just like they’ve stopped wearing Che Guevara on their t-shirts now that he’s been dead for 40+ years, gonzo?

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    which proves my point between killing one makes it a Myth, while a trial and Incarceration proves one to be nothing more than a man, and a criminal at that

    NOW, do you perceive the Difference?

    Excelsior?

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Gonzo,

    Every time your brave leader was in financial trouble, a fellow named “bin Laden” forked over some money to help him out. And GW Bush evidently was a far worse businessman that Abe Lincoln was. I should only be so lucky to have a rich Arab bail me out the way the Shrub has had.

    What kind of class is it to go after the family of your benefactors? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! I suspect that this unit was kept alive (with profuse apologies to the bin Laden family) primarily to keep people off of Bush’s back and quietly closed down as soon as it was possible…

  • troll

    Ruvy – I’ve read about Salem’s 50 grand connection to arbusto and the general point that the bin Laden family was connected through the carlyle group…what specifics do you have on these financial transfers that you refer to – ?

    troll

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx gonzo marx

    SonnyD in #33…
    i reject the Idea of confusing the “war on terror” with the fight against al Qaeda, and thus the two individuals i speak of..bin Laden and Mullah Omar.

    why do i say this?, because according to the objective evidence from the actions fo the DoD, and Administration in the last few years…we palinly see that their focus of money, Intel and military resources has been aimed at Iraq, secondanry appears to have been just trying to keep Kabul out of the headlines…

    imo, they have failed miserably so far at either of those goals

    you want me to suggest solutions? ok…one Section of Navy Intel and Team Six, with 10,000 marines if needed….finance them as they require, and you would have NO problems with the Aghan warlords in the hinterlands, and if the pair are around the Pakistani/Afghan border…they woudl get found

    you must “let slip the dogs of War” that are trained and capable fo solving the Problem, with the tools and resources they need to do so..and hand them a clear and unambiguous Objective…

    then, get out of the way

    it is good to read that you share the exact same misgivings for what appears to be some of the same reasons, about Iraq…

    Ruvy…
    on the day of 9/11 itself, as all was happening, i spoke aloud only once, what is a working Hypothesis based on what i knew and saw at the time…only my wife heard it…and i have not repeated the Nightmare Scenario since then…because i don’t want to think of it as anywhere near Truth, and i do not have enough Facts nor Evidence…and so, i continue to operate under the assumptions which are generally agreed upon at this point…

    you raise good points as to the family connections, but we have few documented facts that we can be certain of…
    1) a few days after the Tragedy, al of the bin Laden Family in the U.S. were flown out, before the general “all clear” of commercial flights began again
    2) bin Laden was trained by our CIA as part of the imported Saudi troops to form the mujahadeen resistance with the local Afghanis against the Soviets
    3) 17-18 of the hijackers were Saudi (depending on the Source)

    if you have confirmable evidence or proof of the financial links you claim, please do post them…i have seen/read rumours of many things, but not much in the way of verifiable evidence….and so, i set things of that nature aside until more data is verfied…

    oh yes, and in no stratch of the Imagination would i ever accept the individual in Question as my “brave Leader”…i Accept that he holds the Office, no more…no less

    to touch once again on the Che Guevera comparison… i feel i must re-iterate that part of what should be the Goal in this Conflict is ensuring that the Myth of the opposition is openly and quite publicly dismantled… so that in 1 or 2 generations, there is no such Symbol for the fanatics to rally around

    example: no one can honestly make the assessment that “communism” will outlive either Castro of Kim Jong Il by much…they have shown by their lives that they are NOT mythic figures to their own People, but rather mere Men…whose Influence will die out shortly after they do…

    example: would the Myths of Camelot or Lincoln have endured had those Individuals not been assasinated before it was shown that they were mere Men, rather than martyred before the “honeymoon” had Ended?

    just some Thoughts….

    and my Thanks to all involved in the Discussion

    Excelsior?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Damn Gonzo! I thought we got him in Korea, better order those superballs for Pakistan, we can say were were dropping them for the kids to play with.

    In fact we could write on each one “Here kid, play with my balls!”

  • http://club.us.cyworld.com/prcc David

    Blessed are the peacemakers:
    for they shall be called the
    Children of God
    (Mat 5:9)
    Jesus’s way is not by sword but by cross

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx jaz

    damn..it’s hards ta believe i actually wrote this that long ago…

    interesting indeed that it has adequately stood the test of time as well as the fact of how solidly my interpretations and extrapolations have been borne out

    interesting indeed that someone had picked this Thread out to spam with a nonsensical scriptural quote…to that person, might i remind you that the one you mention died as a Lamb and was to return as a Lion…with Sword in hand?

    nuff said