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Bush Demands More Surveillance Powers as Presidential Candidates’ Travel Records Compromised

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On the heels of President Bush demanding that Congress give and/or restore broader presidential surveillance powers over private citizens, a new wrinkle in the story surfaced today. The U.S. State Department Inspector General’s office revealed that contractors connected with that agency had breached security protocols in order to obtain travel records of the three remaining presidential candidates.

The incidents were reported to the Bush administration only yesterday, despite the fact that news of some of the breaches was brought to the attention of officials several months ago. It also came to light that apparently no upper-level personnel within the State Department were notified of the breaches until Thursday, March 20.

Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s records were compromised in 2007, apparently during a training exercise. The trainee was supposed to enter a family member’s name, but instead he entered Hillary Clinton’s instead. Information was read concerning the senator’s private itineraries, along with other undisclosed and confidential details.

Attorney General Michael Mukasey balked at demands to look into the incidents and stated he had no plans to investigate the breaches unless the Inspector General asked for it officially. The passport files of Senator John McCain, Senator Hillary Clinton, and Senator Barack Obama had been accessed several times over a period of several months.

McCain, in Paris, was quoted as saying, “If anyone's privacy was breached, then they deserve an apology and a full investigation, and I believe that will take place."

The three who had accessed Obama’s records were said to be low-level employees who were “admonished” for their actions. Senator Obama’s files were accessed on January 9, February 21, and March 14, 2008.

After being apprised of the situation during a campaign stop in Portland, Oregon, Senator Barack Obama was quoted as saying, "One of the things that the American people count on in their interactions with any level of government is that if they have to disclose personal information, that it stay personal and stay private. And when you have not just one but a series of attempts to tap into people's personal records, that's a problem not just for me but for how our government is functioning.”

Senator Obama called for a full and thorough investigation by the Bush administration, along with full Congressional hearings into the incidents. Meanwhile Sean McCormack at the State Department revealed that two of the three contractors in question had been fired and disciplinary actions had been taken against a third.

As of Friday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice appeared to feel that only an apology was warranted and announced that she’d already spoken to Obama and Clinton, and planned to contact McCain in Europe, saying she planned to stay on top of the situation. She later added cryptically that she’d be very disturbed if someone looked into her own passport files.

As of Thursday night, the White House declined to comment on this story.

It has been pointed out that the firings could have been done intentionally in order to make it hard for the State Department to get answers out of those involved without a lengthy process of grand juries and subpoenas.

This has not been the first time private records were compromised. In 1992 a Republican State Department employee was demoted for obtaining Bill Clinton’s passport files while the former president was running against  President George H. W. Bush.

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About Jet Gardner

I like collecting books, music, movies, chess sets and friends
  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    You know, I read about this story elsewhere and now I’m reading it here, and I’m still scratching my head as to why this is of any interest at all.

    What could be in the candidates travel records from their passports which isn’t already public knowledge? That Obama went to Cuba? We already knew, thanks. I just don’t see the controversy here.

    Dave

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Condoleeza Rice said that whe wouldn’t want the information in her passport file revealed, so there must be something to it.

    From other reports I’ve read, apparently those files contain more than just movement records.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Besides, how do we know that this breach of confidential info isn’t just the tip of the iceberg?

  • http://webcentrist.wordpress.com/ Whymrhymer

    The title of this article is very misleading as is a statement made in the first paragraph.

    Bush asking that his surveillance powers of private citizens be restored relates to the government’s efforts to detect terrorist activities and has absolutely no connection (except perhaps in your mind) with this other story about contract employees accessing passport records. The story about the passport records is not a “new wrinkle.”

    I would bet that these contract employees who were either terminated or chastized were digging for dirt to sell to the media, nothing more, nothing less.

    Taking your semi-veiled suggestion that the Bush administration has something to do with the passport breaches and your last comment, raising the old “tip of the iceberg” spectre, together I’d say we have a first class conspiracy theorist at work.

    Perhaps you should try for a job at the New York Times.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    The American right of privacy isn’t being taken away in one act, but rather by stealth, a tiny piece at a time, so that no one notices just how far it has gone.

    I expected this argument. It’s on the line of having 100 pieces of adhesive tape put on your arm and then being asked why you’re complaining and which one bothers you the most. When you call attention to it, you’re chastised for frivolously complaining about something stupid. Individually they don’t amount to much, but taken as a whole they’re something more serious.

    I put it on the order of when the then-Republican led congress snuck Bush immunity from war crimes that he hadn’t commited yet before they were voted out of the majority.

  • bliffle

    Condy fails the management test again. There should be a proper security system in place to protect such data, State doesn’t have such a system and Condy has no apparent plans to institute such a system. She fails. It’s not enough to say the miscreants have been punished: that accomplishes nothing.

    Condy continues her lifelong habit of not doing her job but just using a job to leverage into her next job upward. She should be fired.

    Would you want such a do-nothing failure working for you?

    As for GWB, he fails too. He wants more power to peek into peoples lives without exhibiting the sense to do the right thing when the evidence is right in front of him: witness the august 2001 PBD report “OBL determined to attack in USA” and the dozen reports warning of the use of airplanes as missiles.

    How would such a person recognize an important clue found among private citizens private communications? He doesn’t have a clue and doesn’t recognize one when it’s pinned to the end of his nose.

    GWB fails the leadership test.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Blif, the failure isn’t where you think it is. According to the Associated Press, these breaches of security were not only noticed, but flagged to the attention of the higher ups at the State Department as they happened between 4 months to 7 days ago.

    Conde found out about it only thursday morning… (or so she claims)

    That’s either a coverup or gross negligence.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Whymrhymer the fact that private information, regardless of how trivial it is or isn’t should not have been available to some trainee contractor in the state department and goes to the heart of the Bush Administration’s failure to detect and prevent such breaches. What if the wrong people had gotten advance information concerning John McCain’s visit to Paris, or the Vice President’s visit to Afghanistan?

    You bet your ass that every far right winger from Arch Conservative to JOM would be screaming their lungs aout about this. But since the most harm seems to be against democrats, that makes it trivial in their eyes.

    As for your crack about writing for the New York Times, I find myself in good company considering that had it been published when I wrote this, I’d have beaten United Press, the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post to the byline by hours, because my first source (CNN) was the only one broadcasting the basic story “as details are still coming in” at the time I composed this piece.

  • http://webcentrist.wordpress.com/ Whymrhymer

    Jet, Did I say that the passport breach was NOT a failure to implement proper security procedures? No I didn’t. You call it a failure of the Bush administration and, in general, you’re right but the president himself is as far removed from the workings of the passport office as your comment is removed from the point I was making.

    Do you really think that if this was part of some grand plot to take away another “piece” of our privacy we would have even heard about it? Or that it would have been accomplished by low-level contractors? I doubt it!

    I stand by my points: 1) This affair has nothing to do with Bush’s call for restoration of his surveillance powers and you are misleading your readers by suggesting that it does and 2) You’re trying to turn something (the passport breach) that means nothing, into a grand conspiracy.

  • http://webcentrist.wordpress.com/ Whymrhymer

    P.S.

    But I do like your scotch tape on the arm analogy!

  • JustOneMan

    Gee…Editor – shouldnt these be identifed as a parody and not news? In addition does any body besides the Bush bashing loons really give a shit about someone looking at a passport.

    In addition, since these guys are running for the most powerful position on earth I demand to see their passports. In addition, I think I should ne allowed to see the passport of any American especially the author of this post!

    JOM

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Only JOM could turn a security breach into looking at someone’s passport, we’re talking travel schedules and other confidential materials.

    I’m so glad you didn’t disappoint me, and I’m glad to have my biggest fan back on my articles.

    love hugs and kisses
    Jet

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    This involves the State Department-not the passport office. If it’s so damned trivial, what is Condoleeza Rice doing involved with this whole affair??????

    Sure you can downplay this article, but you’ll get your smartass kicked if you try to take on people like CNN, The Washinton Post, UPI and every other news organization.

    Your remarks reveal that intellect isn’t one or your strong points.

    Turn on a TV or pick up a paper, and stick your head out into the real world.

  • JustOneMan

    There are others who are also worried about the government looking at their passports. Recentlty the State Department and FBI along with other international agencies have been reviewing the passports of suspected international sex offenders. There have been several recent high profile arrests and prosecutions due to these efforts.

    JOM

  • JustOneMan

    Hmmmm is someone a little worried?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    According to the latest news reports, The Secretary of State is ordering polygraph tests of all those contractors involved and has pledged full cooperation with Congressional investigations.

    Pretty heavy duty action for a few guys looking at passports. I’d say that kind of action probably involves things that the Bush Administration would rather not have revealed.

    As I recall the whole Watergate scandal began because a few people were critisized for trying to blow up a simple botched burgularly at a hotel.

    As I recall Bill Clinton was originally being investigated for a real estate scheme that he was barely involved in, and turned into impeachment proceedings that the republican congress FOUND HIM INNOCENT OF.

    We’ll see
    We’ll see

  • JustOneMan

    Wow a smoking gun of a cover up reported right here on blog critics-
    “The Secretary of State is ordering polygraph tests of all those contractors involved and has pledged full cooperation with Congressional investigations”

    Gee if that doesnt scream cover up I dont know what does!

    JOM

  • Clavos

    A passport is an ID. As such, it is shown all over the world to all manner of people, foreign and domestic. Even hotels demand and hold one’s passport during one’s stay. The information contained in a passport can hardly be considered confidential when dozens of people see it every time one travels.

    The passport incident has nothing whatever to do with Bush’s seeking the restoration of the government’s ability to conduct surveillance.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Clavos, even you should know that the information provided to obtain a passport, is not included on the document. Ergo birth information social security number and other items.

    Also it’s nobody’s business where John McCain travels, should he or any other of the candidates decide to travel.

    I will repeat, if this is so trivial, why is the secretary of state involved, why has she pledged to put the contractors on polygraphs?

  • troll

    why is the secretary of state involved, why has she pledged to put the contractors on polygraphs?

    …because it’s another great non-issue on which to focus the attention of the brain dead – ?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Troll, trivial as it seems, others repeating a lie that the contractors were democrats over and over again does not make it true.

    The contractors worked for a Republican State Department and nowhere were their political affiliation mentioned.

    Repeating a lie adnauseum does not make it true.

  • troll

    on the other hand saying that a lie isn’t a lie doesn’t make it a non-lie…or a truth……is it a lie – ?

    in any case it’s just bullshit distraction (imo)

  • Clavos

    “Clavos, even you should know that the information provided to obtain a passport, is not included on the document. Ergo birth information social security number and other items.”

    Jet, One reason I don’t often comment on your threads is because you have a tendency to be rude; in this case, “even you” is utterly gratuitous.

    In point of fact, birth information (date and place) IS in my passport. I provided my SS # only, no other SS information. It is not in the passport.

    “Also it’s nobody’s business where John McCain travels, should he or any other of the candidates decide to travel.”

    They are presidential candidates. Where they travel (and why) is everybody’s business. In fact, once they declared their candidacies everything in their lives became public

  • Clavos

    “in any case it’s just bullshit distraction”

    Quoted for Truth.

  • http://cqpinion.blogspot.com Krutic A

    ‘What could be in the candidates travel records from their passports which isn’t already public knowledge? ‘

    No kidding. The media grabs such things in the hopes that it might turn out to be another watergate. There is nothing to it. If Obama was hospitalized, someone would’ve sneaked a peek at his medical file. People get curious and against their better judgement do stupid things.
    That’s all there is to it.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I’m a lot more worried about the government forcing states to issue IDs which confirm to new national standards including biometrics and keeping all of your ID information in an intertnational database, making the new REAL ID essentially the equivalent of an interneal passport like we had in the good old USSR.

    Dave

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I agree on that subject Dave, but whose “big brother” thought up that idea?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    It passed with a large majority of both parties, Jet. The Democrats have advocated it for years and the Republicans have joined them because of the war on terror.

    Dave

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    As I expected Dave. I just get the feeling that no one has learned from our collective experience with Hitler.

    Want to reunite a divided country, or distract your citizens from the disaster your country’s in? Easy, just pick a minority for everyone to hate as a national group effort.

    My problem with people pouring over our borders is that they seem to come here because the U.S. culture and conditions are better here, then they refuse to embrace it.

    When Europeans immagrated, they brought their traditions and customs with the, but they learned our language and respected our way of life. The hoarde coming over now, want their country in our land.

    I can’t tell you how it disgusts me to go through Wal-Mart only to hear customers speaking arabic or spanish to their kids instead of english, and seeing groups of women wearing burkas. It’s blatantly saying we are here, but they respect our traditions first.

    They are Hispanic Americans instead of Americans-in fact they’re more often than not just referred to as Hispanics and leave the American off as if we’ve given up on them ever becoming American Americans.

    The problem has become so prevelant that laws have been passed forcing government documents to be published in both Spanish and English because the even refuse to learn the language of their adopted new homeland.

    When an american woman visits the middle east, she’s often forced to cover her hair or more, but no one seems to think the reverse should be necessary that they adopt our dress and customs when they visit us here.

    I’m babbling, I know…
    what else is new?

  • bliffle

    We’re making rapid strides towards the kind of citizen surveillence that existed in the USSR years ago.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Remember how Moonraven used to insist that the CIA were following her around?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I believe it’s called paranoia and Presidential misuse of power. It’s on the par with the Watergate conspirators. Nixon didn’t give the orders, but he created an atmosphere in his administration that led them to believe they could get away with it, go unpunished if they were caught, and in the end it brought down his administration.

    Now I’m no suggesting that something as trivial as looking at detailed passport files is anything like that, but let’s look at how Chenney thought it’d be perfectly alright to release information on a CIA agent’s undercover identity out of spite because her husband spoke out against Bush’s war.

    In that light, it could encourage some eager clerk into doing something more serious than passport movement reports, trying to get in good with the boss, knowing that they’d get away with it with just a slap of the wrist.

  • STM

    Bliff: “We’re making rapid strides towards the kind of citizen surveillence that existed in the USSR years ago.”

    Don’t know if you’re quite at that point.

    Really, they can’t be compared. To get phone taps and mount intrusive electronic surveillance you need a warrant in the US. The Soviets did whatever they wanted.

    The big difference: if they thought you were expressing anti-soviet sentiment, you could be locked up, grilled by the KGB (they had no checks on their methods), shunted off to the gulag or sent to a mental asylum.

    Mate, really, the US isn’t even close to that.

    Besides, there are people out there who really ARE out to get you, so a bit of legal surveillance to nab those people probably isn’t that much of a drama in the great scheme of things.

    Nevertheless, I’m glad I live in Oz where we aren’t a) scared of what the government might do or b) worrying about all that surveillance stuff … yet.

    On moonraven and the CIA … just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you.

    Ask Pablo.

  • Pablo

    I cant recall ONE post where I thought that anyone was out to get ME. The above post is a typical mis-characterization of anything that I have written about. The fact that I do believe there is a small cabal of criminals on the loose that just happen to have the reigns of power in Europe, the UK, the USA, China, Israel, Russia and a few other places does not make me a paranoid, quite the contrary it makes me a realist. Those that cannot see this cabal are imho naive, blind, ignorant, and frequently arrogant.

    I have NEVER implied or said, that I think that the powers that be are out to get me, if I did I certainly would not write on this site. Once again a person such as the above, resorts to character assasination and hysteria in trying to make a point.

    To say as the above poster did that in the US you need a warrant to tap a phone, or engage in surveillance, is absurd on its face. Project Echelon which dates back some 25 years, has been in force and used extensively to monitor ALL phone calls, ALL emails, ALL wires. It was set up as a joint project involving, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and the USA. Its primary purpose was to have a way to go around the laws in those respective countries to engage in snooping on its citizens.

    A classic example is lets say that suspect A lives in the USA, but the feds dont have probable cause to get a warrant, they just go over to their Echelon brethern, and one of the other countries does the tapping.

    I must have touched a nerve with the above poster, as I have not been involved with this discussion at all, and his last post zilch. Yet he chose to bring up my name in a deragatory fashion. It is people such as him, that instead of debating someone on the issues, resorts to school boy tactics of slur. This is also btw why I have chose to ingore him in the past and will continue to, however I cannot refrain from commenting ON his dumb post.

  • STM

    I love it when Pablo ignores me.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    STM??? “To get phone taps and mount intrusive electronic surveillance you need a warrant in the US.” Exactly where have you been sleeping? That’s what the controversy is about, the Bush administration having a free hand, and now he’s trying to prevent the major phone companies from being prosecuted or sued for cooperating with his demands for warrentless wiretaps.

    You can’t talk on the phone, you can’t leave the country without being monitored.

    If what Bush is doing were legal, why would he be so determined to get those protections in place?

  • STM

    Jet: “Exactly where have you been sleeping?”

    Sydney, Australia, where they still need a warrant. If they don’t get one and try to prosecute you for anything, THEY get in the shit – and it doesn’t stand up in court, and that’s the last thing THEY want.

    I thought the US legal system was near-identical. Perhaps I’m wrong.

    I am sure that LEGALLY, you still need a warrant in the US for any electronic surveillance.

  • STM

    Jet, of course you can’t lave the country without being monitored. You never could, which is why passports exist. Details were always kept on file.

    These days, however, it’s just a bit more sophisticated. Yes, they do track our movements if they think it’s warranted. I am sure, given the nature of my work, that I have come to certain people’s attention in the past, particularly given that I once visited the Soviet Union. So be it. At that time, the soviets were the bad guys.

    The Australian government, probably much like the US government, focuses on a number of things – and it does monitor people coming and going, generally in concert with other law enforcement agencies around the world.

    Among others, the things it focuses on include the possible movement of terrorists, criminal flight, money laundering, smuggling of drugs and weapons, other criminal activity such as identity fraud and fake credit cards, interception of fake brand-name goods, and the big one in the Asia-Pacific region, illegal sex tourism (paedophile rings, for instance).

    To say that the monitoring of people suspected of these things is wrong is to deny the rest of us the right to live out law-abiding lives without having this sort of stuff disrupting the fabric of societies (like ours) that value real rights.

    It’s all very well to bang on about rights, but when such “rights” revolve around the serious breaking of laws that exist for good reason, then the only rights that exist subsequent to that are those relating to arrest, extradition and trial.

    However, I would bet London to a brick that to mount EVIDENTIARY intrusive electronic surveillance, you still have to get a warrant – even in the US.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Stan the problem as I understand it from several news reports, appears to be that after 911 Bush told the telecomunications corporations to begin wiretapping American phones and to communicate with the CIA (over the head of the FBI-who actually have juristiction), claiming to have the approval of “secret courts”.

    At the time there was no “Homeland Security” so the FBI and CIA were separate entities.

    The phone companies cooperated out of blind faith, and now it appears there were no such rulings and the phone companies were left holding the bag.

    Here’s the point.

    When private citizens got this news, they began suing phone companies for “failure of due process”. Bush has been fighting to get his wiretap powers renewed, which NEARLY EVERYONE IN CONGRESS IS OKAY WITH.

    The problem is actually that he wants/needs to cover his ass for lying the the phone companies by getting RETROACTIVE immunity for the telecommunications industries for falling for his “big fib” without checking out Bush’s story first with their legal departments.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Jet, your summary of the situation is right on target, but you don’t come to quite the same conclusion which I do.

    The companies were, as you say, asked to cooperate. They did so in good faith and because the government asked them to in a time of crisis.

    Now they face punishment for doing their duty as good citizens and some people – including the president and many legislators – see that as unfair.

    Dave

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Well Dave, thank you. I have my moments. My opinion of it is still skewed because I’ve become convinced over the last five or so years that Bush discovered how much more legal authority he as a Wartime president as opposed to a peace time one.

    It’s like the guy in the old Lays Potato Chip ad, I bet you can’t eat just one. Bush eat one and wants another, rather than give his war supply of potatoe chips back.

    Especially when he realized that he can make the taxpayers pay for his cronie’s chips too… to the tune of several billion.

    Really-think of what our economy would look like if we didn’t spend the trillions on replacing worn out Humvies and stuff from Haliburton and all of their hidden subsidieries.

    I want to see Bush punnished for conning the phone companies into giving him carte blanch. After 911 we were all blinded by patriotism (myself included). The phone companies knew what they were doing, they just didn’t think Bush would take it as far as he did.

    Power is a very addictive drug, and dangerous in the wrong hands, and it didn’t help that he had a majority in congress that’d rubber stamp just about anything he asked for-Including immunity from prosecution for war crimes!

    Then again this is the President that on more than one occasion has bragged that God put him into the white house not once but twice. It’s documented, and the scariest part is that he was serious-he really believes that God has his arm around his shoulders.

    I’m just worried that he might actually screw over Israel with the latest Palestinian thing intentionally trying to trigger the final Biblical apocolypse so he’ll be our sainted leader when God comes back.

    (shudder)

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks Dave Nalle, I’ve been trying to reword this article a little and the last two comments seemed to focus it so I worked it a little and then republished it on my own blog site.

    I appreciated the unintentional help sir…

    Jet

  • bliffle

    The telecomm companies acquiesced (except Verizon) to Bush’s demands for cooperation without doing Due Diligence, a serious mistake. Why shouldn’t they be punished? And if they plead government pressure, why shouldn’t BushCo be punished?

    What ever happened to that noble conservative principle of ‘consequences’? Is that reserved only for lumpen proletariat who signup for bad home loans?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Alas Bliff all true…

  • JustOneMan

    MOONBAT ALERT MOONBAT ALERT

    “Chenney thought it’d be perfectly alright to release information on a CIA agent’s undercover identity out of spite because her husband spoke out against Bush’s war.” Never proven…

    “Bill Clinton was originally being investigated for a real estate scheme that he was barely involved in” He was an active investor

    “Stuff from Haliburton and all of their hidden subsidieries” Not True…

    Why do THOSE people think that if they keep repeating lies over and over again the will turn into the truth?

    JOM

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    I’m just worried that he might actually screw over Israel with the latest Palestinian thing intentionally trying to trigger the final Biblical apocolypse so he’ll be our sainted leader when God comes back.

    That is the very last thing you should worry about, Jet. If Bush, or any other foreign leader tries to screw Israel over, and triggers what you call “the apocalypse”, that foreigner will be dead, bird food on some mountain not too far from here…. Go re-read Ezekiel, chapters 38 and 39, and the last few chapters of Zechariah.

  • MAOZ

    “…when God comes back”? He ain’t never been gone!

    There’s a story about a rabbi who tells his young son, “I’ll give you a gold coin if you can show me where G^d is.” — To which the boy immediately replies, “And I’ll give you two, if you can show me where He isn’t!”

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Obviously we have two different versions of the book of Revelations.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    From this point forward, for my own sanity (what’s left of it) I will no longer respond to Just One Man.

    My lack of response DOES NO MEAN that I can’t answer his rediculous rantings, just that it’s no longer worth my time and energy.

    I would encourage others on this site to do the same…

    if they haven’t already.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    MAOZ – “…when God comes back”? He ain’t never been gone!

    Jet in Columbus – Obviously we have two different versions of the book of Revelations.

    Jet, neither MAOZ nor I bother a whole lot with the book of Revelation: I look at it as useful background, which is the same way I look at all of the other Christian books; but following my own rule – the proof of a prophecy is whether it comes to pass.

    “The sign of the beast”, something that is put on the head or the right arm, is in existence – a subdermal electronic tracker that contains personal information about the unit it is tracking….

    So we’ll give you that much out of the book of Revelation. Otherwise, unless you want to count the number 666 with the year 1,000 to get 1666 – the year that Shabtai Tzvi declared that his “messiahship” (a messiahship of evil and of overturning the Ten Commandments) would begin – it is not relevant as far as prophecy goes and neither are the rest of the Christian books.

    I cannot speak for MAOZ, but he has enough on the ball to speak for himself.

    The prophecies that are occuring – an army gathering in Syria to invade, 40,000 missiles in the hands of Hizb’Allah (with ranges that reach as far as Be’ersheva), the steady drumbeat of rocket assault from the south as Egypt arms to attack us, a plan to shove hundreds of thousand rebel Arabs into the country in an to attempt to conquer our land on 10 May, all indicative of an enemy planning a war of extermination, ARE occurring, and do note that these enemies all have in the background ready to help them, American, Russian and European ships off the coast of Syria, Lebanon, and possibly soon, Gaza. In addition, to make sure that no Israeli leader gets the idea that Israel should fight back (just in case Olmert suddenly dies from a stroke or something), Gog George Bush is coming to visit here in May to twist arms and make sure that nobody does anything untoward to damage the cause of the rebel Arabs.

    The enemy is gathering around us, readying our destruction. In John Bambenek’s article published on 15 March, at comments #89, #135 and #142, I detailed these ideas more thoroughly. It’s a lot of reading, a strain on the eyes, and you’ve seen a lot of this before, but it will make it all fairly clear. And given that this is my neck of the woods I’m talking about, I better know what the hell I’m talking about. My ass is on the line.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    So I’m a lessor being because I make reference to Revelations?

  • Baronius

    Jet – you say that you’re not going to respond to JOM any more. I could understand that normally, but take a look at what he said in comment #45. He’s right on every point.

    There is no evidence that Cheney was involved in the leak of a Plame’s name. One of his employees was found guilty of falsely testifying about who the second person was who mentioned Plame to him. One of Powell’s employees was the leaker.

    Bill Clinton was an investor in a real estate scheme. You want to argue that he had a small role, ehh, I’ll give you that one.

    Trillions of dollars replacing worn out Humvees and stuff from Halliburton… well, that’s so inaccurate I can’t even argue against it. It doesn’t even make sense.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Oh give me a break, you won’t convince me that Chenney-considered to be one of the most powerful men ever to hold the office of Vice President didn’t know what his chief of staff was doing?

    …sorry no.

    As for Bill Clinton after being hounded by a hostile congress bound and determined to get him out of office, that very same congress found him not guilty of all charges stemming from the Watergate affair in a knock down drag out impeachment.

    I’ll change my mind about Chenney when you change your mind about Bill Clinton.

  • bliffle

    Bush is simply too incompetent and devious to be given more autocratic power, such as expanded snooping privilege.

    In August 2001, with the PBD in front of his nose saying “OBL determined to attack within USA”, he STILL couldn’t do the right thing. Instead he told off an advisor with a curse.

    Giving Bush more power is dangerous. Would you give a loaded pistol to a six year old?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I’d sooner give OJ Simpson a new pair of bloves and a knife as a birthday present.

  • JustOneMan

    Clinton was-considered to be one of the most HANDS ON men/women ever to live in the Whitehouse didn’t know how hundreds of FBI background files were improperly obtained by their administration with out knowing? …sorry no.

    In addition people should stop their attacks and hatred of Cheney just because he has a healthy and supportive relationship with his openly gay daughter! Jelousy and envey are sickening!

    JOM

  • Clavos

    Halliburton doesn’t MAKE anything, much less Humvees (the military version), which are made by AM General (a successor to American Motors). AM General is owned by The Lenco Group, Inc.

    Halliburton provides a wide variety of logistical services to the military (and to civilian branches of the Federal Government, as well as to a number of foreign governments worldwide), including feeding the troops, construction work, oilfield services, etc.; it doesn’t manufacture anything.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    It is suspected that from the moment Chenney tool office as Vice President, sweet heart deals become rolling in fast and furious.

    Haliburton has reported that the company was taking in about $1 billion a month from its operations in Iraq.

    Aside from the company having to reimburse the taxpayer for overcharges for meals alegedly that weren’t provided for nonexistant solders, Halliburton’s other problems include:

    Allegations of a kickback scheme by two former workers in Kuwait that prompted Halliburton to reimburse the Pentagon $6.3 million.

    Faulty cost estimates on the $2.7 billion contract to serve troops in Iraq, including failing to tell the Pentagon that KBR fired two subcontractors. KBR admitted those mistakes in a letter to the Defense Contract Audit Agency.

    A separate DCAA audit that accused KBR of overcharging by $61 million for gasoline delivered to serve the civilian market in Iraq last year. Halliburton has said the charges were proper.

  • Baronius

    See, Jet, I’d assume that the more powerful a VP is, the less time he spends worrying about the minutae of his staff’s actions. But either way, you and I are both making assumptions. We know who initiated the leak. We know that it’s been investigated – just like Clinton! – and there’ve never been any charges against Cheney.

  • JustOneMan

    stop their attacks and hatred of Cheney just because he has a healthy and supportive relationship with his openly gay daughter! Jelousy and envey are sickening!

    JOM

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Let’s just agree to disagree Mr. B. It’s on the same par as people that are convinced that OJ Simpson is quilty, even though he was found innocent.

    There a three things never to discuss with friends
    Politics
    Religion
    the great pumpkin.

    From here on in I may just check that little box that doesn’t accept comments on articles.

    I’ll say this though, at least I get civil arguments from you.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I don’t mind being wrong, that’s when we human’s learn the most.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    So I’m a lessor being because I make reference to Revelations?

    Jet,

    If you were a lessor being, you’d be making money of the lease the lessee was paying you. Or is it the other way round?

    And you really should get the name of your own books right. It’s embarrassing that I, an ignorant Jew, should have to tell you, someone who was considering being a Presbyterian pastor, that it is called the book of Revelation.

    And that was comment #144, not #142 in John Bambenek’s article referenced above.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet – you say that you’re not going to respond to JOM any more. I could understand that normally, but take a look at what he said in comment #45. He’s right on every point.

    Baronius – normally, I’d stay silent on this. But having endured hundreds of contemptuous attacks from JOM, it is about time that something he says that is correct is wrongly ignored. It would serve him right.

  • JustOneMan

    Ruvy….you of all people have no right to pass jusgement on me…..oh ye of little faith!

    JOM “Ruvy, have you heard the good news?”

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “Ruvy, have you heard the good news?”

    You’re leaving Blogcritics, JOM? That calls for a celebration! Maybe I should break out my 32 year old Hennesey’s Cognac and have a little sip.

    Nah, you ain’t worth that much. I think I’ll take a sip of water instead.

    L’Haim!!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus
  • bliffle

    Maybe congress SHOULD give GWB the surveillance powers he wants, that way he could keep a better watch on unscrupulous hedge fund operators who want to swindle american homeowners with fraudulent subprime loans and then hold the US economy hostage to wring more bailout funds from the Federal reserve. Then those miscreants could be nabbed right off the streets and sent to Gitmo without due process or habeas corpus.

    Sounds like a good idea to me.

    Especially if it could also apply to crooked government officials who give out sweetheart deals to their cronies.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I hear you bliff, problem is they’re all on his payroll