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Burning the Qur’an and The Hatred of The West

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I am deeply saddened that the Florida-based Dove Outreach Center is planning to burn copies of the Qur’an on September 11. The comments left on the Washington Times website are just full of hatred and defamatory statements beyond belief. America is so intolerant of Islam and Muslims that I am ashamed to be an American.

Is this what Americans are? A people so subjective, so self-righteous that they can only satiate their appetite of hatred for another people of differing religions with the most hateful words and speech?

These people don’t really know anything about Islam other than what the media feeds them. A 30-second blip on the news and they think they know the entire history of a conflict. Some of the commentary I read sounds like terrorist threatening.

I don’t disagree that there are problems amongst the Muslims, but if you really made an effort to understand Islam you would know that Islam is a peaceful religion. The people making these threats haven’t read the Qur’an. They don’t understand the Arabic language. They sound like a bunch of backwoods uneducated rednecks ready to lynch the first Muslim they can lay their hands on.

What is more disturbing is that some of the people making these kinds of statements are educated Americans of the Christian faith who can’t get past the fact everyone doesn’t adhere to their fundamentalist beliefs.

It’s heart-wrenching to hear things like Muhammad was a used camel salesman, a pedophile, a schizophrenic, fabricator of a false religion. Muslims pray to the devil. Islam is a cult of devil worship. Islam is a terrorist death cult.

If you look throughout history, and it only takes a Google search to know that the Muslims have been the most terrorized group of people ever! And it is in fact the European west that has warred on and caused
the deaths of more people than any other civilization in the history of the world!

It really doesn’t take a genius to know these things. It only takes time to investigate the real historical facts about Muslims and the history of the west.

Read what’s on the news today. And of you have half a heart you will be saddened and disturbed by what’s written about Islam. Do yourself a favor read about what Islam really is don’t let Fox News and CNN to tell you what it is not.

One last thing — don’t let 9/11 fester as a wound that will never heal. Treat it. Treat it in your heart with a sense of understanding and if you don’t have that understanding seek it out so you can begin to heal and forgive.

We all need to heal, Americans of all faiths and those of the Islamic faith. Hatred only begets more hatred and violence only begets more violence.

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  • It’s heart wrenching to hear things like Muhammad was a used camel salesman,

    But he was. It’s stated clearly in the Koran. That was his family business and there’s nothing shameful about it at all.

    a pedophile

    He married a 13 year old.

    a schizophrenic

    He talked to god. To any rationalist that suggests schizophrenia.

    Islam is a terrorist death cult.

    Some sects of Islam are actually terrorist death cults, most notably the Ismailis, though they have since largely either disappeared or reformed.

    You might want to take some time to actually read the Koran before expressing an opinion on it. Like the Old Testament it’s full of an awful lot of violent and inhumane instructions for the faithful. Unlike the Bible it includes no humane and moderating influence like the New Testament.


  • John Lake

    Nice article, Joe..
    Jesus was a carpenter, then a fisherman.
    In America we refrain from warming up to persons under 21. But until recently that age was closer to 13. In fact, cultures differ considerably, and some girls are very mature at 13 or younger. Heck, some may still be rather immature at 21.
    My recent research on Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of New York shows him to consistently favored understanding and mutual respect among all religions. Any suggestion that the proposed Mosque near the 9/11 sight is an attempt to “add insult to injury” appears to be unwarranted.

  • @Dave

    Do you mean to say that the Qur’an actually state Muhammad was a used camel salesman? Can you point out the verse to me that say’s that?
    I don’t think you can because it doesn’t state that. He was a merchant.

    Do you mean to say he was a pedophile in that he molested young children? He ‘contracted’ the marriage with Aisha when she was young, but did not consummate the marriage at that age. Dave have you studied Islam? Read the books of Hadith? Seems you have not. I have.
    Dave did Moses speak to God? Did God speak to Moses? To Abraham? Were they schizophrenic? Is this how you speak about the Prophets of God? Perhaps you also believe Lot fornicated with his daughters?
    Save I’m a Muslim so I’ve read the Qur’an. And i lnow the bible as well as I was raised as a roman catholic. The new testament is the writings of Paul. Have you ver heard the term ‘pauline christianity’ ? Christianity is Pauls religion. Not the religion of God. And certainly not the religion of Jesus as Jesus was a Jew. The Qur’an has some of the most beautiful verses ever! Have you ever read the Arabic translation of the bible? it reads like a newspaper there’s no beauty to it at all. The beauty of the Qu’ran is not in the translation, but in the original Arabic in which it was revealed. Dave you;re a mushrik ….

  • Clavos

    Dave did Moses speak to God? Did God speak to Moses? To Abraham? Were they schizophrenic?

    I’m no psychiatrist, but by virtue of their claiming to have conversed with an imaginary being, they had a screw loose, yes.

  • alvo

    what does this have to do with jesus!!! is this argument or discussion a comparison btw christianity and islam or is it muhamed in question.now u are shifting from relaying your message about the americans (some) being ignorant about muslim to arguing it against xtianity. i am not against islam but leave Jesus out of this, you are out of topic

  • Count Nukem

    I like the beauty of Muhammad’s poetry too. How beautiful it sounds:Man Baddala Dinahu Faqtuluhu. It translates to “For those who abandon their religion (Islam) kill them.” I wonder if you like the meaning just as you like the sound?

    If you think that you have any expertise in Islam consider Ali Sina Challenge

    ” I will also pay

    $50,000 U.S. dollars

    to anyone who can disprove any of the dozen of the accusations that I have made against Muhammad. I accuse Muhammad of being:

    a narcissist a misogynist a rapist
    a pedophile a lecher a torturer
    a mass murderer a cult leader an assassin
    a terrorist a mad man a looter ”

    Try to debate the expert, but before doing so read the other debates on the site.

  • Mike

    Muslim extremists want to kill you today, moderate Muslims want to kill you tomorrow. I say burn baby burn. They got their victory mosque, and now I will show the same sensitivity by having a yard sign “DOGS AND MUSLIMS KEEP OF GRASS” proudly displayed in my front yard.

  • Count Nukem

    Joe:”It really doesn’t take a genius to know these things. It only takes time to investigate the real historical facts about Muslims and the history of the west.”

    Hmmmm….I recommend short read Islam 101.

    Read it Joe, it could change your mind. Consider also history of India. Islam was responsible for genocide in India. Around 70 Million of Hindus were killed during few hundred years of Muslim rule. Only British invasion put stop to it.

  • zingzing

    alvo: “what does this have to do with jesus!!!” etc.

    you do know that jesus is in the qur’an, right?

  • zingzing

    count: “now I will show the same sensitivity by having a yard sign “DOGS AND MUSLIMS KEEP OF GRASS” proudly displayed in my front yard.”

    and you will be a racist. yay!

  • Jordan Richardson

    Issues like these always seem to bring out the very best in people. I hate people.

  • Dave’s completely gratuitous comment #1 could be read as a glancing criticism of Judaism as well as Islam.

    What is a non-religious person doing expressing a preference for one religion’s holy book [the New Testament] over two others’ holy books [the Quran and the Hebrew Bible] in a political article?

    Just making extra trouble and bad feeling for the hell of it?

  • @everyone

    Man I was stating my own view/opinion on burning the Qur’an and how I think the west see Islam. I didn’t want to start a flame war.
    This is awful. Is this how things are on Blogcritics? all the time?

  • zingzing

    welcome to the internet? it’s all flame wars. what did you expect, joe? there’s nuts out there and they are free to spit their shit because everyone has a voice here, and for good or ill, the wheel will turn.

  • Tom

    Whatever one’s feelings about the Koran and Islam’s place in the world, the fact is that many of the countries that practice Islam are opposed to any Western thought; we are the infidels. The teachings of Islam, and Shariah law are ideas from the 7th century. They should be left there and Muslims need to join the 21st century, warts and all.
    This is why I am a secularist. There is no place for religious law in modern society, except within the confines of the church, synagogue, mosque or home. That goes for all religions.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Tom, your ignorance of Islam is overwhelming. We probably have Islam to thank for the modern scientific method (see Alhazen, for instance) and for countless advances that we use regularly in the West.

    To suggest that Muslims need to join the 21st century when they were arguably the ones that dragged the rest of our Western carcasses here is just pathetic.

  • Ms Mimi

    I think the burning thing is wrong. I also think that everyone is afraid of an Islamic reaction but Muslims are afraid of no-one when they burn Bibles, don’t allow other religions in their countries, persecute ‘infidels’ etc. America is too tolerable, we stand for nothing but Freedom of Speech but not freedom to do something about it. He should not burn the Koran. But when has a stink like this been made about the intolerance of other religions in Muslim nations?

  • Jordan Richardson

    America is too tolerable? On what planet?

    We should, as a planet, strive for more tolerance. We don’t get there by suggesting we practice “too much” Freedom of Speech or Freedom of Religion. The whole reason this issue shouldn’t be happening in the United States or in other free societies is to set an example that we are tolerant societies – more tolerant than your so-called “Muslim nations” even if it is just idealism.

    We should be sending a message that hate and ignorance are not welcome bedfellows in a free, educated, tolerant society. And issues like this imply that we are no better than the “backwater shitholes” we claim to be so morally superior to.

    If “they” want to burn Bibles and “persecute infidels,” that’s their issue. We shouldn’t transform our society because of the actions of intolerable, hateful organizations and individuals. If anything, it should spur us towards practising even more tolerance and compassion.

  • Glen

    I wish I could be there and burn one bible for ever Qur’an they burn. Not as a hatred of the bible, but to show both sides of the issue. To do what they are doing will get Americans Killed. It will be a recruiting tool to get more home grown Islamic terrorists. And being X US Army I know how the acts they are about to do will get more solders killed. There is no excuse for them to burn the Qur’an.

  • There is absolutely no excuse for the way the Media is placing a huge spotlight on this small hand-full of IDIOTS.

    Charge the Media for endangering our soldiers and citizens here at home.

    It is the MEDIA that WE need to stop. Don’t cry *free speech*! It doesn’t exist on NBC,ABC,CBS,CNN,MSNBC,and that propaganda-infested-clown-show(FOX NEWS).

  • Al

    Muslims will surely defend their religion because they have no other choice, denying it or questioning its truthfulness is apostasy and punishable by death. A lot of people were born into the religion and never had a choice to choose for themselves. In addition Allah is so merciful, that’s why there is sharia law to guide people in many muslim countries that chop off your hand for stealing, no second chances, no mercy. There is a verse in the quran that allows a man to beat his wife if she doesn’t obey him. Allah is so great that he instructs men to beat their significant others. I would never serve such God.

  • Jordan Richardson


    Every religious adherent “defends” his or her religion. Don’t be ridiculous.

    denying it or questioning its truthfulness is apostasy and punishable by death


    A lot of people were born into the religion and never had a choice to choose for themselves

    Absolutely true. This is also true of children in America, born into religious sects and versions of fundamentalism that must serve an infallible deity to the bitter end.

    Allah is so merciful, that’s why there is sharia law to guide people in many muslim countries that chop off your hand for stealing, no second chances, no mercy.

    I’ll not excuse Sharia Law, but I will say that it is one of the most frequently debated issues in all of Islam. Issues of how, where, why, when, and how Sharia is applied remain constant fixtures in almost every community.

    There is a verse in the quran that allows a man to beat his wife if she doesn’t obey him.

    And there’s countless bible verses that exceed the abuse and cruelty of the Qu’ran.

    Consider Zechariah 13:3, which states that “You shall not live because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” Not only does this verse advocate the killing of “false prophets,” it also advocates that the parents of the supposed “false prophet” do the killing.

    Or what about Deuteronomy 20:10-14, in which the LORD proclaims that the army should approach a town and offer it terms for peace first. If those terms are accepted, the people in the town are destined for the sweet life of forced labour. If not, “you must attack the town…kill every man in the town…you may keep the women, children…and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemy.”

    Or another gem from Deuteronomy 22:28-29: “If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.”

    Or Deuteronomy 22:23-24: ” If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbour’s wife.”

    God is apparently “so great” that he instructs the death of women who were raped for the sole reason that they didn’t “cry out.”

  • maria khan

    im muslim ..how can amercan do so??they are just burning QURAN becoz they know that dis is quran the biggest reallity of the world .even all regions of the world agree with its highly and truly reality.not only chritans but hindus also follow teachings of quran and say that no 1 can be happy without following QURAN.AMERCANS ARE JUST frustrated…….they are making their own hell in this world they dont believe. [edited]

  • shark

    ahh, the old “my fantasy god can beat up your fantasy god” game.

    Shark: “been there, done that…”


  • shark

    Count Nukem describes the history of Catholicism and its priests::

    “…a narcissist a misogynist a rapist
    a pedophile a lecher a torturer
    a mass murderer a cult leader an assassin
    a terrorist a mad man a looter ”

    Who loves ya, babe!


  • Dr. Muhammad Shoaib Ahmedani

    I dont agree rather oppose to those who are intending to hate the Americans or any nation in this world, because hatered for the human beings is against the teaching of Islam, Christianity, Jewism, Hinduism etc. Yes we may hate the ill acts which have potential to hurt hearts of the billions of peoples. At the same time I beleieve that if we spet on the moon, it will come on our own face. Likewise burning of Quran does not mean that the God`s message will be eliminated permanantly. Rather this dirty act will show the world the menatality of those who claim to believe in liberalism, freedom of religion, freedom of speech and so called rationlism. God forbid, if this happens, then the world will see an immediate dominancy of Islam in this world because many peoples from all over the world will become more anxious to know if there is someting in Quran, which has a potential to affect lives of the peoples. In this way there is a possibility that more and more non-muslims will accept teachings of Islam.

    I have absolutely no doubt that the impact of burning will be more stronger than banning of Hijab in France (The no has been increased after ban), Banning of minarets in Switzerland (No. of converts to Islam have been increased), Tony blair`s false statements about WMDS for invasions of Iraq (Mnay christians and jews from all over the world are hating the lier and he had been ousted from premiership by the truthfull peoples). In the end I wish no body should be able to burn any religious book. Because we human beings ars offsprings of one father and mother and we must learn a lesson of peace, contentments, love and mutual respect from animals and birds i.e. from nature. And this is the teaching of Islam and mission of the United States Department of Peace.

  • Sorry, Doctor (#28), I don’t quite follow you. You predict that if the Quran is burned in Florida, “the world will see an immediate dominancy of Islam in this world because many peoples from all over the world will become more anxious to know if there is someting in Quran, which has a potential to affect lives of the peoples. In this way there is a possibility that more and more non-muslims will accept teachings of Islam.”

    But preceding that you write, “God forbid, if this happens.” It sounds to me like burning the Quran in Florida would very much please God, since it will lead many more non-muslims to accept teachings of Islam. So why do you say “God forbid”? You should be saying “God willing” and praying nonstop for the Quran to be burned.

  • Dr. Ahmedani,

    we human beings ars offsprings of one father and mother and we must learn a lesson of peace, contentments, love and mutual respect from animals and birds i.e. from nature. And this is the teaching of Islam and mission of the United States Department of Peace.

    I understand your message , but I question the US Peace Dept? If we have an official department of Peace, they sure are keeping a low profile!

    JD – Plus, the Libertarians would be screaming for it’s dismantlement.

  • I see the nuts are out in force. #29

  • Jordan Richardson

    Yeah, the nut doesn’t fall far from the Kurtz…er, tree.

  • So, why are you here, #29, to spread you’re own message of intolerance and hate?

  • OH!!! My friend, Alan.

    Should have known he couldn’t resist commenting for long.

    😀 Too afraid to use your own name?

  • Thanks, Jordan! 😀

  • Jordan Richardson

    He should have at least attempted to switch up his mundane posting style before creeping back into the discussion, wouldn’t you say?

  • Alan, #29

    I don’t know what your carrying around in that name, but my web scanner said do not enter, bad reputation.

    JD- I caution others not to click on it.

  • That’s why I don’t like this name-game people play here. I’m soo glad you warned me, Jordan.


  • Jordan Richardson

    It’s his sense of humour. It’s a link to Dove World’s website, the website of the pastor who’s set to burn Qu’rans on this 9/11. It’s another rip-roaring example of Kurtz’s humour nobody else seems to appreciate.

  • I’m glad I don’t… My WOT security must have gone nuts!

  • Jordan Richardson

    Incidentally, regarding Muhammad’s pedophilia: pretty much everyone in those days (and indeed in the Middle Ages and through most of recorded history) would be considered a pedophile. Marrying and consummating young were just social norms, unfortunately. So it goes.

  • jbg

    where was all the outrage when a few years ago you saw on the news americans burning the american flag? The news? our elected officals,now everyone thinks is soooooo terrible…..come on people its called freedom. We can burn qurans,bibles,money,flags……this is america, get over it.If you don’t like our freedoms why don’t you move to maybe Iran where they kill you for expressing what we can do.

  • $42,

    Oh, sorry… #42

  • Well … burning books isn’t exactly a novel idea for Christians, is it? We can be thankful, I suppose, that this church only consists of 50 crazy, hate-filled believers. Extremists exist in nearly every generally peaceful religion. Of course, to say a religion is “peaceful” in the physical world doesn’t say anything about the horrible portends it will exact on nonbelievers in the hereafter. So to call a religion “peaceful” might require a footnote.

  • The world is returning to the conditions of the jungle through the abuse of religious belief. One could make a case that “dog eat dog” was the world planned for us by the Deity and we should rapidly return to such conditions. If this were true, then could not Jones be seen as doing the Will of the Lord?

    Oh, and Dave #1: lots of Christian saints spoke to God or His representatives, not the least of which were the children of Fatima in 1917. Were they also schizophrenic? Catholics don’t believe so.

  • Deborah

    I am an american christian and I think burning the Koran is sara religious. Regardless of the fact that it isn’t a bible it is still a holy book to the muslims and should be respected as such. It isn’t the muslims that are hateful it is the fanatics that give it a bad rap. We also have many christians who gifve christianity a bad rap. This pastor is in the wrong and should be stopped. It is so unethical for us as ameircan and christians to act out with such hatered. You people watch 30 seconds of the news everyday and believe everything that is said to you. Stop being the sheep and start being shepards. I went over to Jordan and spent over a year there learning the people, culture, and religion. Not once was I hated on for being american they took me in with warm hearts and went out of their way to help me to understand their ways of life. This man is not only going to burn a holy book of god for the muslims but is also going to open a can of worms that puts all innocent people in harms way. Not only willour boys and girls in Afghanstian half to look over both shoulders now but those of us on home soil will have to do the same. It’s time for small minded people to stop spreading hate and start lerning who is it they are hating and why. And as for Maria Khan your comments are not comming from a muslimm women they would never speak like that. A true muslim would never turn and say the words you used. So I would have to say your a converted muslim who has no inclination of islam. You probably married into islam but were not born islamic. I also know the arabic language inside and out and also the Koran and no where in it does a women behave as you did. With all that said may this pastor sto his evil and start preaching the godliness and love of god. It is not God’s wish to hate others for their different beliefs in religion. Amen

  • Deborah

    Sorry for all the type-o’s

  • @Deborah
    Finally a voice of reason. Well said Deborah. And thank you.

  • John Wilson

    Anyway, burning the Koran is counter-productive: in response CAIR has sent out a thousand korans to prominent people and is going to send out a million more!

  • michael

    they burn our flag and bible but act like we will burn their koran and all the nuts of the world come out.does not take a brain to see what the koran teaches.

  • zingzing

    ok, michael. so if we burn the koran, are we any better? when they burn the flag and bible, do you get mad? yes? well, let’s be better, eh? does that make any bit of goddamn sense to you?

  • Jordan Richardson

    does not take a brain to see what the koran teaches.

    This is one of the most nonsensical statements I think I’ve ever come across. Congratulations, Michael. You made me pee a little.

  • Happy Infidel

    OK I knew nothing about Islam until a year ago. Since then I have read the Qur’an and many a tafsir from the biggest scholars in Islam. Al Jalalyn, Al Tabari, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Abbas etc, (the ones that I need to explain passages that concerned me from the Qur’an). I have read from Al-Bukhari Aisha’s confession that she was married to the prophet at the age of six and at the age of nine she was taken to his home (for sex). I have also read where she confesses that Muhammad gave her an STD. This information is available from the Saudi government website. On the Qur’an. I’ve read Yusuf Ali translation and also some Muhammad Piktall translation as well. I have also had a ton of teaching from an Arab non-muslim who had degrees in Islam and believe me. The translations are tamed down in comparison to the original arabic.

    I’ve read big chunks of the ahadith including Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Al-Muslim. It’s funny but once you get to grips with it you can see who the good muslims are and who are the hypocrites. The likes of Osama bin Laden and the taliban are obeying Muhammad to the letter and I guess you could say they are the good muslims as in. They are doing what a muslim is instructed to do.

    Jordan. You are either a muslim convert or a self hater.

    If any of you really open your eyes you will see that there are 57 Islamic states and all of them are governed by muslims who in some way and to differing degrees subjugate the kaffireen and mushrikeen (infidels and polytheists) from within their lands. Just last year in Pakistan a Pakistani Christian was burned to death while his wife was raped by the police all because he refused to convert to their filthy cult. And you people complain about a pastor and 30 year missionary burning a few unholy books.

    I have read Mein Kamph and to tell you the truth I was shocked but Hitler was a pussycat compared to Muhammad. in fact in WW2 Hitler was allied to many Islamic countries who joined with him so they could do Jihad and kill jews. Look up one of Adolf’s best buddies “Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini”. You can see pictures of him along with his bosnian SS divisions.

    I suggest Jordan that if you are a muslim practicing Al-Taqiyya (google it) then you are losing this battle because the kafireen are educating themselves about Islam.

    If you are just a dhimmi self hater then I hope you are a masochist, because if you sit back and don’t educate yourself about the fascist cult of Islam and what it has to offer you then you may just have to enjoy being a sex slave to a muslim who beats you one day along with his other three vaginas (sorry to be blunt but in Islam that’s all you are to a muslim male). You are also nagis (dirty) and that’s why a Muslimah can’t pray in the masjid along with the muslims.

    If you don’t believe me than I can provide proof and reference.

  • Dr. Muhammad Shoaib Ahmedani

    Qouting so many books does not mean that a man has really read these books in critical manner. The true scholars are often so humble, cuteous and peace lovers that they do not project points of hatered. Rather they apprciate and promote love among the humans. But still there are some peoples who always try to be negative just to please their donors.

  • Jesse

    Muhammed’s book written after the life of Christ. Therefore, since Muhammed wrote a different testimony about Jesus…

    Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

  • Ebrahim

    Let Pastor Jones burn the Qur’an for surely he will be burned to hell.

    To the Muslims around the world, as peace makers, please don’t react violently. Instead consider the positive outcome of this. Just think that Jones is promoting Islam. Out of curiosity, non-Muslims become interested of reading the Qur’an and know about Islam. Surely once they see the beauty and truth in the Qur’an, they will become Muslims. INSHA ALLAH.

  • rob

    Joe, why don’t you go to Kabul and give the people a hug. I am sure they would appreciate it. Then, they would burn you in the street.

  • Jordan Richardson

    I knew nothing about Islam until a year ago.

    And a whole year later, you think you know it all. Amazing.

    The likes of Osama bin Laden and the taliban are obeying Muhammad to the letter and I guess you could say they are the good muslims as in.

    So by sheer law of averages, Happy Infidel, you’d suggest that the vast majority of practising Muslims are “bad Muslims” because they don’t participate in or advocate terrorist activity. It only stands to reason that if bin Laden and the other thugs of Islam are actually and properly following the religion, the other 99% of Muslims are just “doing it wrong.”

    Let’s not forget, too, that this is based on your WHOLE YEAR of learning about the religion. Must’ve been a helluva year.

    Jordan. You are either a muslim convert or a self hater.

    After 15 years of frequent study, I’ve settled on being an agnostic for now. I’ll follow the rabbit hole and the evidence where it takes me, though. And like any honest human, I’ll admit to a little juicy self-loathing.

    57 Islamic states….

    Obviously you’re talking about the OIC here, but that’s hardly an accurate picture of Islam in the world. If we’re taking Islamic countries to mean countries where Islam is the majority religion, there are 52 of ’em. The OIC actually has 60 members, with 57 states and 3 observer states.

    Amazingly India, which has the world’s third largest concentration of Muslims, couldn’t get into the OIC. When you ask why that is, you start to gather more speed towards the conclusion that the OIC is less religious and more political in function.

    You go on to list a specific horrific example in Pakistan. It is a terrifying story, but there are comparable stories in comparable cultures happening everyday. Incidents of violence, however horrifying, are should never serve as justification for bigotry or fear. They are used, though, as frequent ammunition for just how “terrible those people over there are. The problem with that is that we ignore incidents of equally terrifying and horrific violence in our own cities and towns. The problem isn’t specific to a people group or religious group, Happy Infidel. It’s specific to humanity. We’re a terrible species.

    The rest of your post appears to imply that I am a Muslim and a female. I am neither, so I don’t really know how to answer. Plus your paranoia and hatred made me chuckle, so I’m having a hard time coming up with something sincere to say. My apologies.

    If you don’t believe me than I can provide proof and reference.

    Please do. And when you do, Happy Infidel, make sure you discern the difference between PROOF and mere “references.”

  • Aish

    My word on the mattewr is this. America has freedom of religion and America is about Personal Liberties. In America I can burn a thousand copies of the Quran and deficate on a thousand more and no one is legally able to do anything about it That is freedom of self and Religion. If you are an American you might want to read the constitution.

  • Jordan Richardson

    In America you can do a lot of things, just like you can do a lot of things in other parts of the world. That you can do a lot of things doesn’t justify the doing of a lot of things on its face, so that argument gets increasingly hollow by the day.

    Whether you can “legally” do anything about showing up to a funeral in your underwear is irrelevant; it’s whether or not you should do such a thing out of respect for your fellow human beings that is relevant.

  • zingzing

    it is getting increasingly strange how “burn the koran day” and the “9/11 mosque” arguments are dovetailing. (other than the fact that there’s no good argument for burning the qur’an and there is for what the people behind park51 are trying to do…)

    “burn the koran day”: legally, you can burn the qur’an. fuck islamic feelings.

    “9/11 mosque”: they have every legal right to build whatever they want, fuck your feelings.

    both are true, but the first is based on hatred. the second is based on reconciliation. one is a step back and the other is a step forward.

    (also, the right wing is a piece of shit.)

  • IMO, there are people who want this country to explode into civil unrest and war all over religion.

    We are all playing into their hands.

  • Iftikhar

    Quran is the book of the God, who is the responsible of safety of the Quran. Allah is the superpower, He can do any thing any time by any source in every conditions. All the situation, conditions, events are under his observation.

  • Nicole

    How can you say “Muslims have been the most terrorized group of people ever” ? Do you not remember the Jews?

  • Nicole
    I’m not denying the holocaust or the persecution of Jews throughout history. However the people who have been the most warred upon, people driven from their lands, oppressed and persecuted I have to say it’s the Muslims. Persecution of Muslims

  • sheerazraza

    all i could say that the americans are fucking bastards. they will be burnt in hell fire forever. allah is the almighty he will punish them in the hereafta.allah akbar {allah is the greatest}

  • shaz

    how they hanged jesus on a cross to fauslely claim that they had burnt him. but the reality is that,the all mighty god saved jesus and took him high above in the heavens and saved jesus from being burnt. thats how god has n will save his quran.so whom ever thinks that the quran they have burnt, n r rechoicing. they are in faulse. becoz the reality is that they have burnt there own grave n hereafta.and as faulsely they are blaming muslims for there 9/11. what have they proved by burning the holly quran.they have burnt there own bodies. n ashame on the muslims people living there n in other countries why no action has been taken. come on wake up muslims if you realy are a true muslim a true beliver of god and a true follower of prophet muhammad SAW(pbuh) plz plz plz

  • My2Cents

    Common Sense – Use it People – It is a gift from God!

    God (also known as Allah) gave us all the blessed ability to know right from wrong. Building a mosque at Ground Zero is not the action of a humble man. What boastful muslim that would do such a thing!? (especially knowing what will come from it). Peaceful people don’t look for the best way to stir up trouble. Choose a different spot for your mosque. Also, The Koran might say you can lie to non believers but be careful of your lies when you tell them about your reasons for selecting that site for your “cultural center”. Your deceptions/lies are being transmitted to through the media – muslims as well as non muslims. Your punishment will fall upon you – based upon your beliefs.

    Now to those Burning Korans? Seriously, WHAT would Jesus say/do?! Don’t let your souls be taken over by hate. This is not what God made you for, or gave up his Son for. It’s a waste of time and just common sense during these troubled times that it is not something I think God would be sitting there supporting you on. Craziness!

    To all the pagans/non-believers, I’m sure you were given common sense by yourself or space or somewhere — please use it just the same. When we know the consequences of our actions, we should consider them carefully before acting! Carry on about your business. – PEACE – OUT –

  • Jack Off Mohammed

    Mohammed was a sick SOB
    He married a 6 year old girl
    defiled abd raped her when she was 9
    he was possessd by satan
    He was a murderer rapist thief liar butcher and con artist.
    Islam is a curse on humanity
    Read the terrorrist guide to humanity “KORAN

    Islam is evil, oppressive and full of hatred,
    they try to control everything from what you eat to what you shit.

    I left Islam, and I am proud.
    What an evil doctrine.
    They call me an apostate and say i must return or die.
    I say kill me.
    Fuck Islam
    Fuck mohammed

  • Jaco

    Jack off

    I don’t think you left Islam in fact I don’t think you were ever a Muslim. Your comment is oppressive and full of hatred. Fuck Islam? Fuck Muhammad? Is this the speech of a tolerant human being? or just a hater of Muslims and Islam?

  • Vorona

    You nailed it, Jordan:

    “The problem isn’t specific to a people group or religious group, Happy Infidel. It’s specific to humanity. We’re a terrible species.”

    The rest is all chaff in the wind.

  • Elisabeth

    I don’t disagree that there are problems amongst the Muslims, but if you really made an effort to understand Islam you would know that Islam is a peaceful religion.

    None of the Abrahamic religions are peaceful. The Torah is the most violent work I have ever read. And its spiritual children Christianity and Islam are the most intolerant, intrusive ideologies in the world today. Only sheer exhaustion (as happened in Europe after the 30 Year War) coupled with secularisation seem to curtail the impulse for violence behind the monotheist mindset.

    It’s heart-wrenching to hear things like Muhammad was a used camel salesman, a pedophile, a schizophrenic, fabricator of a false religion.

    Several of those charges are legitimate from a rational, evidence-based perspective. Islamic sources cite Aisha herself as indicating the age of consummation as nine. That is pedophilia per definition. Mohammed was either a lunatic or charlatan as far as a non-Muslim is concerned, deal with it.

  • @Elisabeth

    I told think you’ve studied the Torah or the Qur’an. You are like so many that have commented here are a hater of Muslims and Islam. Infact I think you’re AB Caliph under a presumed name.

  • @Elisabeth

    I don’t think you’ve studied the Torah or the Qur’an. You are like so many that have commented here are a hater of Muslims and Islam. Infact I think you’re AB Caliph under a presumed name.


  • @My2Cents
    The proposed Islamic center is not at ground zero. Is it on the very spot where the towers once stood? No it’s not. How far away do you suggest it be built? two blocks, six blocks, one mile? in another state?

  • @AB #27 are you a member of that klan following known as Doveworld?

  • @AB #27

    research the numbers more people accepted Islam after Sept 11th than did before. How do you account for that fact?

  • #26

    Islam infact now dominates the world as the largest religion with more than 1.3 billion adherents. And post 911 the numbers continue to grow

  • @Alan #27

    Stop playing foolish word games. You’re not a part of the solution to help the west/America bring understanding between Muslims and non-muslims. You are here at Bc to inflame the situation. If you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem. You fear Islam and Muslims Alan. Fear Allah Alan.
    Your words here at Bc are very small in comparison to what’s written in the Qur’an. Your words at Bc aren’t going to change anything. You only want to incite your fan base here. You have a campaign of FUD. Alan fear Allah and your gov’t.

  • @#28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39

    Alan is afraid to use his own name. I think he has posted comments here under many assumed names.
    I would like to think yours is a voice of reason here @Jeannie@Jordan

  • @jbg

    I lived in China for four years. I had no problem speaking my mind. I don’t advocate the burning of any religious or political symbols. To tell people if they don’t like it then leave is small. Tell me to leave? Yes I will be returning to China in the not so distant future.

  • @ #42

    It is only 50 members in that (church)? but many American hold the same sentiment. I said it before I’m not afraid of Muslims or terrorists, I’m afraid of Americans.

  • #43

    none of them were schizophrenic

  • #47

    Millions of Muslims have the entire Qur’an memorized. Burning any book is counter productive

  • #48

    Michael do you know what the Qur’an teaches? You do have a brain?

  • #49

    None of us are any better by burning anything sacred to another people.

  • I just scanned this Joe the blogger. Warning people not to click on name.

  • #51

    You know some of what you speak, but not all. I am a convert to Islam. I don’t consider my wife a vagina. Learn to Arabic. Understand the grammar. You’re relying on your Arab friend to translate for you, learn to translate for yourself. What were the social norms for marrying in the 6th century?

  • @ #52

    Dr. Ahmedani you are an example of what the Qur’an teaches.

  • #53

    Who was the spirit of truth Jesus spoke of. He referred to the spirit of truth as ‘he’ seven times. not ‘it’ as Christians presume

  • #54 Insha Allah we will all be guided ….Salam

  • #55
    I would gladly give them a hug and the salams …I have no fear of them burning in the street or anywhere else in Kabul.

  • #57

    deficating on a religious book is not freedom at all it’s just ignorant and gross

  • #59

    A bit harsh but very true

  • #60

    America is a country that always needs an enemy. The American gov’t wants you to fear Muslims and Islam

  • @Jeannie #85

    Scanned what? My blog is totally unrelated to politics/religion. I don’t want the hatred I have found here to come to my blog. sorry

  • @Jeannie

    Did you also warn people not to click on AB Caliph/Alan’s name?

  • @Jeannie

    This has been a terrible experience writing on Bc. I never meant to incite any of this hatred. And I’m not conducting some ‘commenting’ experiment as Alan suggested in a comment he left on my blog. I removed his comment there I refuse to give him a voice on my blog, he has a voice here. I removed his comment because I can. He is a hater of Islam, he fears it. He fears Muslims. There is no reason for this. I am a convert to Islam. I’m not an extremist. I don’t advocate any form of violence no matter who the perpetrators may be. The majority who commented here left no way to track back to their blogs. They want to be anonymous they want to be able to say whatever they want without consequence. I don’t know who you are or why you ‘scanned’ this waring people not to click on name. As I said did you warn them about Alan? Alan called me out for not replying to comments left here so I came back to reply to them. He called me out for not writing any other articles here at Bc. I don’t expect you to comment to this explaining you action of scanning and warning. Are you an admin or mod here? This has really been an awful experience

  • Jordan Richardson

    Joe, please know that Alan doesn’t represent Blogcritics in any way – even though he clearly wishes otherwise.

    He is, without question, little more than an internet bully. He’s done it for years.

    Don’t let someone like that deter you from writing anywhere, Joe. It would be absolutely tragic if you let a pompous freak like Alan Kurtz deter you from speaking out.

  • Jordan Richardson

    And I’m pretty sure Jeannie just mistook your sudden flurry of comments for spam, so she was trying to warn people about it. From what I know of her, I can assure you that she meant no harm by it.

  • @Jordan

    I’m a little guy (not physically, figuratively) I feel terrible for inciting the kind of commenting that went on here. Alan called me out for not replying so I came back and did it all in one shot. I wasn’t lashing out at Jeannie for hers seem to be a voice of reason. The reason why I left a bogus URL is my blog is not related to any politics/religious niche. I emailed Alan in response to the comment he left on my blog and of course he didn’t reply and now that I think of it that was a mistake for him to have my email address. I don’t want him to harass me in anyway. Jordan IMO the Muslims are not to be feared people like Alan are. Again I apologize a million times to non-Muslims and Muslims I never meant to bring out this kind of commenting and IMO hatred. I apologize to Jeannie as well. Jordan to be honest with you I didn’t know how to reply to the comments left here. I’m not the most articulate person certainly not as articulate as those here at Bc. I don’t know I only know I feel awful.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Joe, it’s not your fault. This topic is a sticky issue for many ignorant individuals looking for an arena in which to shout and stamp their feet, but you shouldn’t let that stop you from writing about this or any other topic you’re passionate about.

    You can’t control the responses and I completely understand and empathize with the flurry of madness that these comments can provoke. I’ve often “lost it” when responding to comments myself and have frequently said things I’ve regretted later. It comes with the highly aggressive territory, I guess.

    You don’t need to be the most articulate person to have a voice, Joe. And you do have a voice, so use it. As I said, you bring a unique perspective to Blogcritics and I’d like to hear more. Don’t let the hang-ups and hatred of a few stop you from sharing what’s on your heart.

    As for Alan, as I said he’s a bully. Trust me, I’ve fallen victim to his brand of nonsense and it’s left me very, very discouraged. But at the end of the day, it’s vital not to let people like him drag you down. You can’t let it happen or you’ll never put pen to paper again. And that, frankly, would suck.

  • @Jordan

    from one human being to another human being I appreciate your kind words and encouragement. I say to you sincerely ….Thank you.

  • To all…

    Just to let you know who I am and some things about me. My name is Joseph sometimes know as Jaco by my friends. I was a working musician for the better part of 18 yrs. a guitarist and bass player earning the nickname Jaco after Jaco Pastorius for emulating his playing style. I was directly and indirectly connected wiht some heavyweights in the music industry including Bob Marley who I knew personally, Peter Tosh, Stanley Jordan, Robert Boysie Lowery who I studied music theory with. Boysie was teacher and mentor to Jazz legend Clifford Brown. I was a student of several prominent teachers in Nick Bucci who was a student of Jazz legend Pat Martino. John Dougherty who performed wiht James Brown and George Benson. Kenny Jones who is a legend in his own right. I am a recovering drug addict who struggled with a 30 yr cocaine and crack cocaine habit. I’ve overcome all of that and now help other addicts recover their lives. I was an IT professional at one time for the DuPont Co.
    I lived and worked in China for four years as a teacher and was a very successful teacher there. I plan on returning to China.
    I’m a young blogger who blogs about blogging. I’ve had moderate success, I’ve only been blogging since April of this year. I was also a poet who read my works at various book stores and coffee shops. I am a convert to Islam. Islam helped to save me from the insidious addiction that crack is.
    I’ve update the URL by my name. You can visit my blog not that I’m looking for the traffic to boost my stats. There is a contact form there if any of you want to contact me for any reason. I said all of this to say I’m just a frail human being like the rest of you. I’ve overcome much in my 52 yrs on this earth. I don’t know it all and have much to learn. So that’s a bit about me. You can call me out on it. Doesn’t matter. I am who I am. I didn’t come to Bc to be controversial infact I’m an introvert who doesn’t do compliments well, and I’m not an attention seeker. I’ve had my share of attention on the stage and in the classroom. And another reason for my writing this is to just be honest with you. So…I don’t know what else to say. Thanks

  • OMG, Joe, I thought you were that ass! So sorry! My web-scanner keeps saying error in red, and I thought that you were planting bugs. I’m new as far as I’m old. 🙁

  • Joe, please know that Alan doesn’t represent Blogcritics in any way – even though he clearly wishes otherwise.

    He is, without question, little more than an internet bully. He’s done it for years.

    quoted for truth!

  • Joe, I love jazz(some of it) I saw Cecil Taylor when I was thirteen at Columbia U. Wow! It didn’t sound like a piano.

    😀 Write here.

  • It would be absolutely tragic if you let a pompous freak like Alan Kurtz deter you from speaking out.

    Jordan Richardson (#97), you obviously overlooked Joe The Blogger’s comment #96. That’s the one immediately preceding yours. In part Joe wrote: “Alan called me out for not replying to comments left here so I came back to reply to them. He called me out for not writing any other articles here at Bc.”

    By “called me out,” Joe refers to a comment I left yesterday at his Blogging Perspectives Daily. He declined to publish it, which is his prerogative. But it was a calm and reasonable comment, especially by BC standards. (What! BC has standards?)

    I inquired why he didn’t follow his own advice to bloggers, published at Technorati on September 4: “It’s good practice to reply to each and every comment.” I did not “call him out,” I merely asked why.

    I also inquired, strictly out of curiosity, why he’d published on Blogcritics two consecutive days earlier this month, but nothing since. I thought it might be related to why he hadn’t answered comments.

    I expected Joe to respond like a normal human being on his blog, which appears to have far less traffic than BC. I thought he’d be more comfortable expressing himself there, just between him and me. (I frankly doubt if more than a handful of people frequent his blog.) I did not ask for his email address and will not share it with anyone. As for not replying to his email, it’s just as incoherent as his blizzard of comments here today, and I was at a loss how to respond.

    Joe is obviously a man in distress. I did not know that before today, and would not have posted a comment on his blog if I’d known how unstable and depressive he is. I’m sorry I upset him.

    But honestly, Jordan, you are mistaken in charging that I attempted to deter Joe from speaking out. I did just the opposite, encouraging him to comment here and submit more articles to BC. However, it’s now clear that he isn’t psychologically strong enough to weather the BC storms. So it’s probably best that he stick to his personal forum, where–unlike BC–comments are few but unfailingly complimentary.

  • @Jeannie

    I apologize to you for the tone of my comment. You needn’t apologize. As I said yours is a voice of reason. Sorry you thought I was planting bugs or spamming. Though I didn’t know ow to respond to all of these comments I came back well because Alan called me out for not replying to the comments. I did it all in one shot. This article and all the comments have left me tired and discouraged in more ways than one as I am also recovering from recent surgery. I’ll be beating myself up for this article and the comments it generated for a long time. Again I’m sorry Jeannie.

  • Thanks, Joe! 😀 Please write here, I’ll read and comment(on the subject of the article) wouldn’t that be refreshing?

  • I thought you were, ? ,making comments to drive up his #’s..

  • I let it slip once in awhile, Joe, but I have learned to take these threads less-personally. Don’t let words stress you out; they only have power if you allow them.

    I’ll tell you, I am stronger now, in so many other areas of my life, and I give BC and some of the people here a lot of the credit! Clavos, zing, EL,Christine,Dave,Jet,Jordan,….and all


  • Doc and Chris…opps!

  • @Alan

    I’m not unstable as you say. I was just caught off guard by your comment. Yes I suffered depression for a long time. I came back to weather the storm. I will repost your comment on my blog. And you’re right my blog gets only a hand full of readers. I’m not as successful a blogger as you are a writer. I will also post the email I sent to you and let the readers here decide if it is as incoherent as you say. Alan I’m not a man in distress and if I seem too be then what has distressed me is the commenting here. It was never an experiment as you claimed. I’m still learning about blogging Alan and as a novice I sometimes don’t follow my own advice. I apologize for that. And I am psychologically strong enough to weather the BC storms. That’s another reason I returned. Alan I’m not here to be at odds with you or anyone else.

  • Alan,

    What are you talking about and what is the purpose of the comment you left on my blog? Is it just to call me
    out for what you claim is an experiment? And what experiment are you referring to?

    I wrote the article at Blogcritics not to start controversy or some kind of commenting experiment.
    I was very upset about the comments my article Burning the Qur’an …..it brought out the worst in people.
    I’m not a professional writer you be by the number of articles you authored. I’m not a professional blogger
    you may be I don’t that though.

    Are you calling me out for my inexperience? What is the point you’re trying to make? I was never conducting
    an experiment. I make a lot of mistakes as a blogger. I’ve only been blogging since April of this year.
    I am totally caught off guard by a comment that is obvious nothing but sarcasm.
    I thought that trying to write for Tr and Bc that perhaps my writing would get more exposure. You can obviously see
    this blog(the one you commented on) is a dying blog.

    I don’ understand the comment you left. Could you explain your intention? Obviously I’m not happy about the comment
    you left.

    I don’t understand the kind of people who write articles for Bc and I don’t understand the nature of the commentors.

    And yes I do believe there are cliques and circles in blogging. I don’t belong to any of them. And there are brown
    nose commentors leaving huggie kissie comments always vying for the first position in a comment section and
    there are drive by comments just leaving a link to another blog.

    Man don’t attack me. If I’m making mistakes tell me how to fix them. I would never dare seek out your blog or
    articles to call you out on something in a public forum. Do you think that is good thing to do?

    Alan obviously you’re much more intelligent than me and you’re a much better dare I say far more superior writer
    than me. I’m not a trained writer or journalist. Maybe you are.

    Honestly I didn’t know how to reply to those 69 comments. The majority of the are full of anger and hatred. Look
    at the comment of Jack Off Muhammad. How do you respond to something like that?

    Look Alan …..I’m a little guy ….You’re a big guy. I’m a former musician …and a former user of cocaine and crack
    cocaine. I’ve been depressed my whole life I’m 52. I just came back a couple of years ago after living and working in China.
    Where I was a successful teacher. I left behind a woman I love very much. What can I say? My life in America is fucked up.
    I thought and perhaps I thought wrong I has some ability to write. I’m not a blogger …..I would like to be …..but I’m failing at it.
    As you can plainly see.

    Alan if I upset you I sincerely apologize for that. If you think it better that I don’t ever try to write another article for Bc
    then I won’t. I haven’t written anything mainly because I’ve been recovering from recent surgery. And for lack of what to
    write for BC or Tr.

    I will approve your comment. Doesn’t matter. Call me out.

    You can see my blog receives little if any comments.

    I don’t know your motive. I would like to know.

    Anyway …..

    Kind Regards,


  • Joe, Don’t apologize to this idiot. He is totally full of hate and insecurity; you saying that he’s a better writer than you is just wrong.

    🙁 I bet you can write circles around him, if the length of your comments are an indication! 😉

  • Alan I will respond here despite you thinking me unstable and depressive. I was never conducting any experiment as is/was your contention. Frankly I didn’t know how to respond to them(the comments). You seem to question why I didn’t reply to them and now that I have you call it an incoherent blizzard. What would you like me to do? reply or not reply? And when did you get your degree in psychiatry and hang it out on a sign?
    You assume too much Alan. I’ve overcome a lot of adversity in my life. What’s wrong with that? Believe me I’ve in a lot of places you would neither want to go into nor have the nerve to go into even if was driven by addiction. And I would never wish that on you, or anyone.
    People seem to think you’re a bully. I’m neither judge nor jury.

  • Here is Alan’s original comment he left on my blog. I post it here lest he or anyone think I’m looking for traffic on my blog.

    Three days after publishing this blog, you embarked on what may have been an experiment, blogging for two consecutive days at Blogcritics.org.

    Your first such blog generated 6 comments, in response to which you followed your own advice expressed above: “It’s good practice to reply to each and every comment.”

    Your second BC blog, however, published one day later, was a very different story. To date it has generated 69 comments; you have replied to only two. In your second reply, you threw up your hands in exasperation: “Man I was stating my own view/opinion on burning the Qur’an and how I think the west see [sic] Islam. I didn’t want to start a flame war. This is awful. Is this how things are on Blogcritics? all the time?”

    I’m curious as to whether you were attempting through your experiment to prove your contention stated above. “As I explore the blogosphere daily researching articles for my blog I’m finding a disturbing trend of blogging cliques and circles. I read the comments section of these blogs that are over inflated with effusive commentary left by the fan base of the authoring blogger.”

    What’s interesting is that, upon unspooling a thread that has little or no effusive commentary left by the fan base of the authoring blogger, you hastily abandoned the field. You have published no subsequent articles at Blogcritics.

    I note, though, that you have since published one blog at Technorati, which of course owns Blogcritics but which has a commentariat much more given to effusive commentary left by the fan base of the authoring blogger.

    Please, do you have any updated Perspectives on Blogging in the wake of your BC experience? I honestly thought you were, in this blog dated September 4, disturbed by effusive commentary left by the fan base, etc. But your BC response suggests that you prefer it.

  • Alan I’m not a man in distress and if I seem too be then what has distressed me is the commenting here.

    Joe The Blogger, just for the record, please let me dispel the paranoia expressed in your comment #78, where you state: “Alan is afraid to use his own name. I think he has posted comments here under many assumed names.” You list 12 preceding comments that are presumptive examples of my posting under many assumed names.

    In fact, those 12 comments are posted under just two names, not many. And those names are jeannie danna and Jordan Richardson, each of whom has posted elsewhere on this thread and is well known to BC regulars. I had nothing to do with their 12 comments.

    I did, however, post one comment (#27) on this thread under my self-identified alias A.B. Caliph. I fail to understand how that comment could have distressed you, Joe, since it was addressed to Dr. Muhammad Shoaib Ahmedani and never mentioned either you or your article.

    Also, please note that my single pseudonymous comment is one less than you yourself have used on this thread, where twice you posted as Jaco (comments #46 and #68).

    Why is it wrong for me to post one pseudonymous comment but OK for you to post two?

    And how can you in good conscience blame me for distressing comments when the only one I made prior to responding today (#106) to Jordan Richardson was not addressed to you and never so much as mentioned you or your article? [Edited]

  • Ok Alan…..you know best. [Edited] do you feel better now?
    I never said it was wrong of you to post under assumed names.

    Alan do you feel better that you have gotten the best of me here? I hope you do.

    Alan let me say this and it may be out of touch with reality, but you will never affect any change within the radical element of Islam, and your articles will not eradicate Islam from the face of the earth. If one person died in the WTC attacks that’s one person too many.
    America could fight a war with Islam for 1,000 years and to your dismay Islam is not going to go away so stop thinking it will. You nor whatever army you can draw around you will ever defeat the Muslims.
    Alan you are not a part of any solution to the problems within the religion of Islam nor any part of a solution to turmoil of Islam and the west. You may say Joe you’re not a part of the solution either, but I am more of a part of the solution than you.

  • @Jeannie
    If you like some Jazz I would like to suggest giving Chet Baker a listen. He was a legendary trumpet player who often performed with Charlie Parker anytime Parker traveled to the west coast. Chet played ‘cool jazz’ very lyrical, very smooth, very romantic. Some say he was the best in his day even better than Miles. When Chet died all the jazz clubs in Paris were dark. There was no jazz in Paris that night. It’s the only time that has ever happened.

  • doug m.

    What a soap opera. Joe don’t let people discourage you from writing but what kind of response did expect writing such a volitle issue? No offense but you need to toughen up a bit.

  • Joe, it strikes me that you could’ve avoided all this distressing commentary if you’d done your homework as a would-be blogger. Before submitting an article, you ought to have looked at some recently published pieces here in the Blogcritics politics section, paying particular attention to comments. You’d have quickly discovered that BC is not one of those places “overinflated with effusive commentary left by the fan base of the authoring blogger,” to quote your earlier Technorati blog. You could’ve then avoided Blogcritics, and kept your delicate feathers unruffled.

  • Well, if the ruckus has died down now, I’m leaving. Alan will be happy…

    😀 bye, Joe.

  • @Jeannie bye …and thank you.
    @Alan you’re right again. What can I say? Before I write another article I will do my homework. And I’m going to start by reading some of your writings here at Bc. Yes, I guess you could say I am a wanna be blogger, you’re right again. Alan you’re much more seasoned that myself. I’m just starting out. I’m still learning. How long have you been writing for the web? Alan one trait I’ve instilled in my son Zaid is find something you really love to do then learn to do it better than anyone else. I’m still learning Alan.

  • Maybe you should also warn Zaid that when he learns to do something better than anyone else, many of those underachievers will hate his guts. There’s a surfeit of jealousy in this world, Joe.

    Anyhow, I definitely do not recommend that you read my BC articles for instructional purposes, unless your goal is to become the most hated writer on this site. I doubt that your skin is thick enough to compete in those particular sweepstakes.

  • Alan do you relish in being the most hated writer on Bc? are you the most hated?
    Why should I warn my son? he’s aware of hatred. And can stand on his own in dealing with it. I also stand with him.

  • Yes, I do relish it. And I will fight you to the final smackdown if you try to steal my crown. You see, BC is all about role-playing, just like professional wrestling. Most onlookers root for the heroes, but the villains are much to be admired for the imagination they display in antagonizing their opponents and especially their opponents’ fan base.

  • Baronius

    Joe – The quality of the comments at BC has been sliding for about a year now. But any site will have its hecklers, unless you go to one of those tightly regulated sites where everyone agrees with each other.

    Besides, are you really so stunned that your article was met with some disagreement? You disparaged Americans, Europe, and Christians on an American-based, English-language site.

  • Like Captain Renault in Casablanca, Joe is shocked, SHOCKED to find that disagreement is going on here!

  • @Baronius
    No I’m not stunned it was met with some disagreement.
    I’m not here to steal anything least of all you crown.
    Alan do you think we, Muslims and non-Muslims alike have been told the truth of the awful events of the fateful morning? Do you? Do you believe everything the government tells you? I don’t want to believe you’re so sheepish. I want to believe you’re more intelligent than that. You’re a helluva of writer Alan you’re a smart guy.
    Don’t you think the government is involved in using a certain amount of FUD on it’s population?
    Alan did you ever sit down with any Muslims? converts or those that have immigrated from Muslims lands to try and dispel some of the fears you may have?
    Alan the truth is none of us will ever know the truth of 911. Have you ever bothered to view the amateur video on youtube? Video that would have never been shown on the news?
    The government had the intelligence why didn’t they stop it? Why didn’t they put a bullet through Atta’s head?
    Alan there are so many unanswered questions, too many.
    Why do some many Americans believe the gov’t had something to do with it? People who lost loved ones on that morning. Why do they think we’re not being told the truth?
    Can so many people be wrong?
    Alan perhaps you have the answers? If you do then tell us, and why you’re at it tell us who shot Kennedy.
    Alan you know as well as I do that hatred and intolerance never solved anything.
    Alan say what you want about me, I’m unstable, out of touch, depressed…call me a crack head if that makes you feel better call me whatever makes you feel superior I’m not going to fight you, but I will never stop questioning. I want to know the truth just as you do. Being at odds with eachother has no benefit in it for you or me. Use your writing skills to bring some resolve some understanding. Use your writing skills to tear down any walls that divide us. You can write for a decade hating Muslims and Islam, but it’s not going to affect any change. Alan you have a fan base here, I don’t. Don’t mislead your fan base with the propaganda that is fed to you. And some of it is propaganda. Alan use your writing not to be the most hated, use it to be the most admired. Alan in the end the villains come out the loser. I’m not here as a hero Alan. I’m hear to write, I may not be able to write as well as you, but I can learn I can improve. Hatred only begets more hatred. Use your writing yo affect some positive change.

  • Baronius

    I could have a constructive debate with a Muslim…but a truther? No way.

  • @Baronius
    You’re referring to my comment #147. I just think a lot of questions have not been answered about 911. If that makes me a truther well I apologize for that.
    This whole thing has tired me out and I’m defeated.

  • Summary: What Do We Know Today that We Did Not Know Yesterday about the Author of this Article and Why Does It Matter?

    Ordinarily, an author’s religion is of no concern to those reading a blog on BC. We wouldn’t expect writers in the TV/Film, Music, Sci/Tech, Sports, Gaming or Tastes sections to disclose their religion, and would probably be taken aback if they did. Even in the Culture, Books and Politics sections it’d be unusual.

    Sometimes, however, it matters. This is one of those cases. The blog is titled “Burning the Qur’an and The Hatred of The West,” but mentions Qur’an burning only in the first sentence before immediately veering off into the second half of that title. Here we learn that Hatred of The West does not denote Islamists’ well-publicized hatred of the West, but rather relates exclusively to the West’s alleged hatred of Islam.

    In his third sentence, the author identifies himself as an American, as if we hadn’t already guessed as much from his handle. “Joe The Blogger” is about as American as you can get. However, Joe is embarrassed about this part of his background. “America is so intolerant of Islam and Muslims,” he writes, “that I am ashamed to be an American.”

    Here is the point at which it would’ve been germane for Joe to also identify himself as Muslim, since that fact might bear on how we read and evaluate the rest of his article. Yet he doesn’t do so. For all we know, he’s a Presbyterian.

    Only on September 29, three weeks after his blog was published and after 70 comments were posted, do we learn that Joe is Muslim. Now, all of a sudden, he insists upon our belatedly knowing this salient detail.

         • Comment #86 – “I am a convert to Islam.”
         • Comment #96 – “I am a convert to Islam.”
         • Comment #102 – “I am a convert to Islam.”

    I am admittedly no religious scholar. But tell me, is such deception standard practice for Muslims? How can anyone, at this volatile point in our public discourse, write an article denouncing the alleged hatred of the West towards Islam, without revealing at the outset–not three weeks later–that he is Muslim? Especially when, given his all-American handle and self-identification as an American, we’d naturally assume that he is non-Muslim. How do you say “misleading your readers” in Arabic?

    Second among the revelations in Joe’s many comments posted on September 29 are those relating specifically to his allegations of the West’s hatred towards Islam and his complaint about America’s intolerance. It turns out that Joe The Blogger isn’t exactly holier than thou when it comes to dispensing hatred and intolerance.

         • Comment #74 – “Are you a member of the Klan?”
         • Comment #80 – “I’m afraid of Americans.”
         • Comment #83 – “Do you know what the Qur’an teaches? You do have a brain?”
         • Comment #113 – “My life in America is fucked up.”

    I submit that comment #113 is especially pertinent to evaluating Joe’s anti-American blog, and has a lot more to do with it than the West’s alleged hatred towards Islam or any other highfalutin pretext for writing his deceitful article.

    Q. What do we know today that we did not know yesterday about the author of this article?

    A. Joe The Blogger is ashamed to be an American not because we’re intolerant of Islam and Muslims, but because his life here is fucked up.

    Q. What does it matter?

    A. It matters because truth ought to count for something. Otherwise, all is propaganda.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Alan, have you ever sought professional help?

    You clearly exhibit obsessive tendencies with respect to the comments section here and with respect to certain writers (in this case, a writer who has only penned a small handful of articles here). You’ve gone after Eric and Dawn before in similar fashion, obsessively tracking past comments with an eerie precision, and have dedicated articles and rants to how you think you’ve been treated by people on the internet.

    I think, too, that you exhibit the tendencies of a stalker. From one definition (Lamber Royakkers): “Stalking is a form of mental assault, in which the perpetrator repeatedly, unwantedly, and disruptively breaks into the life-world of the victim, with whom they have no relationship (or no longer have). Moreover, the separated acts that make up the intrusion cannot by themselves cause the mental abuse, but do taken together (cumulative effect).”

    While you certainly accuse people here of “hating you,” your obsessive behaviour transports your interest far beyond Blogcritics to the extent that you’re leaving comments and making personal observations far beyond the subject of the commentary. Joe’s experience with you serves as testimony, as do the experiences of others – including a woman who had the unfortunate distinction having you look her up on Facebook to post her “interests” over here.

    The only question I really have is what kind of stalker you are. Are you a rejected stalker? A resentful stalker? An incompetent one?

    Regardless of type, it does seem that your stalker tendencies are buoyed by your lack of social skills and your misguided sense of grievance/wrong against your person. It’s interesting that you leap into action the second someone mentions your name and then quickly take it overboard, launching into full-scale attacks and posts like the one above complete with cited “evidence” as though nobody else can read the comments threads here.

    The fact is that you do display some disturbing tendencies that have me convinced that you are a stalker obsessively tracking victims or, at the very least, a fool who has no idea how the internet is supposed to work.

    So which is it?

  • #146 hey, when did zing join? I don’t remember voting on it nor the ceremony for new members

  • Jordan Richardson

    We only wake you for the important meetings.

  • zingzing

    there was a ceremony? i thought i was just tripping. y’all give me drugs? that would explain everything. except the raccoons in top hats. what was that all about? that dance they did was vaguely pleasing either way. dancing raccoons… who’da thought? this is the best clique ever. beat that, heathers.

  • I agree with you, Joe,

    The media has become the self-anointed-fourth arm of this country, and they have pushed this divisive issue to the limit.

    News for America, the world didn’t change after 9-11, it was a bad world out there all along. America’s hands are just as soiled as any other government(she just wont admit it).

    And we know that not all Muslims are terrorists, but we are pounded day in and day out, to believe that we are better and they are out to get us for our freedom, bull.

    I said once, that I felt empathy for ALL of the souls that perished in NYC,Wash DC, and Ohio. The poor saps flying those plains were just as brainwashed as any KKK members or hate group. Also, they have been persecuted by this bully country for so long that they, snapped.

    This comment belongs in this tread.

  • Alan

    Remember when you point your finger at someone three fingers are pointing back at you.
    I wasn’t intentionally trying to deceive anyone with my article. Granted I could have done things differently in writing that article, but I didn’t. I will learn from my mistakes and try to improve on any future article I may or may not submit to Bc.
    Burning the Qur’an…it is wrong to burn the Qur’an or any books for that matter. Your link to doveworld under AB Caliph makes me believe you’re in favor of burning the Qur’an. Are you?
    And yes I am ashamed at times to be an American because it is shameful that America has deemed itself the police of the world and we must come to the rescue of any country we have a vested interest in to save them from the throes of evil and shove our ideologies down their throats whether they want it or not. Alan you’re representative of all the things wrong and shameful about America hiding behind your words, hiding and cowering beneath your cloak. It has nothing to do with my life being fucked up.
    If I say I’m afraid of Americans how is that an example of hatred and intolerance?
    Alan the fact is America is intolerant of Islam and Muslims. Maybe the Muslims would be more tolerant of the west if we stopped trying to tell them how to live and stop meddling in their affairs. America is so pro Israel it’s sickening.

    Alan why don’t you admit you fear Islam, you fear Muslims? and you hate them!
    You think you can keep hiding behind your cloak of anonymity? Alan there is no more anonymity on the Internet today. [Edited]

  • I think Alan just a plain ordinary narcissist. If he is stalking anyone, my guess is–it is him. He is obsessed with himself and he is really no big deal, Joe. He’s like a buzzing pest. If you ignore him, he won’t bother to talk to you. He feeds on attention, like a mosquito feeds on blood.

    Alan, nice out-of-context distortion. It was a defensive comment. The truth is, the man thinks you are seriously mentally ill and he doesn’t doubt you could be a stalker. He’s warning you off. But you already know that, you just like to play games with people.

  • Yes, Joe, please listen to Cindy and roger.

    This is just a comment thread under an article on a web-site. Any perceived threat , although I know how real it can feel, I was new…, is all in your mind.

    Alan is trying to get a lot of comments.

    I would like comments, but, quality would be preferred.

    Why don’t you comment in a different thread with other people on another article?

    😀 we aren’t here to hurt you, Joe.

  • @Jeannie

    I’m finished here. I’m sure Alan is all over blogcritics. I won’t be back ….and I’ll blog about my experience here and how awful it was.

  • muhammad the greatest

    The racist,devil, who wants to burn the Quran and people like him are mentaly sick. They have no manners or love for God. Don’t waste your time chatting to them. Let them eat their hearts out.

  • This is so funny! lol! I have to leave now.

  • Knock it off, kids; seriously…

  • Christopher Rose (#144), if it is permitted, I wish to note that you deleted 72 preceding posts from this thread, reducing it from 215 to 143 comments. I do not question your prerogative in doing this, nor do I criticize your choices for deletion. It simply seems more civilized to at least state for the record that this was done. There’s something Orwellian about stuff just disappearing from the Internet without a trace.

  • To quote Glinda, after the Witch of the West vanishes temporarily: “Such a smell of sulfur!”

  • Irene Athena

    Careful, handy. It’s the Internet, where #146 (currently) could be understood as a politically incorrect reference to the title of the article.

  • It’s poor form to have to explain a joke, but I was referring to the general olfactory nature of the disappeared comments.

  • Irene Athena

    Yes, Handyguy, it’s the internet, where everything and nothing is poor form… A truly enchanted land where logical inconsistencies (e.g. “All Christians are bad because some of them went on Crusades in the Middle Ages” vs. “Some Muslims are OK even though Muslims are in the news for messing with aid workers like…two months ago”) are preserved like insects in amber in the form of archived comments.

    Not that I disagree with Joe the Blogger at all. It IS time for America to heal. I’m all for consistent healing.

  • Irene Athena (#149), I realize you were not addressing me, but your assertion that on the Internet logical inconsistencies “are preserved like insects in amber in the form of archived comments” is baffling, following as it does so closely my comment #145.

  • Irene Athena

    Correct, Alan. I have not addressed you tonight, although Triumph the Insu…nevermind.

  • Irene Athena

    LOL. This place is too much fun. See ya around, Alan.

  • In other words, when someone politely points out that you are wrong, you rudely ignore their query. That’s one approach, I guess.

  • Alan, an admission to bebafflement is not a query, and yes, sadly the ratio of extant comments containing logical inconsistencies to deleted comments containing them is about a million to one.

    By the way, I don’t ignore people who politely tell me I am wrong. Someone impolitely pointed out that I was wrong recently, and I didn’t ignore even him. (See URL.)

    Mathematicians don’t get even. They get odd.

  • Ruvy

    the fact is America is intolerant of Islam and Muslims. Maybe the Muslims would be more tolerant of the west if we stopped trying to tell them how to live and stop meddling in their affairs. America is so pro Israel it’s sickening.

    Joe, America’s regime is anti-Israel and always has been. BY CONTRAST, Americans, the common run of the mill kind of guy you see at the bar or the restaurant, tends to be pro-Israel. Israelis don’t (and should) burn American flags; they don’t (and should ) burn American leaders in effigy; they don’t hate Americans or call for their deaths. Israelis don’t engage in terror attacks on Americans; Israelis don’t behead Americans; Israelis don’t gang-rape Americans. Israelis do not call for people to carry briefcase nukes into the States to blow them up. Israelis do not fly airplanes into American buildings to destroy them!

    Are you getting the picture, here, Joe?

    Remember, I’m the guy who told you initially to differentiate between different groups of Muslims, and to differentiate between the terrorist Wahhabi and their spoor – who are heretics to Islam in that they believe that G-d (al-Ilah) has form – and the real Muslims who do not.

    I have a book or two for you to look at – to learn what us “pro-Israel” types believe in and why. One is In Ishmael’s House: A History of Jews in Muslim Lands, by Martin Gilbert. The second is The Legal Foundation of and Borders of Israel Under International Law, by Howard Grief. The two books will keep you busy for a long while.

  • Mark

    Check here for a condensed version of Grief’s argument.

  • Ruvy

    Mark, I wanted Joe to get the full treatment. Having edited this book ( The Legal Foundation of and Borders of Israel Under International Law, I can point out that it contains diary entries of British ministers where they pour out their Jew-hatred – or the Jew-hatred of their superiors. It contains voluminous proof not only of the fact that Arabs were never to be considered as a minority to be protected under the Mandate, but exactly how the perfidious British perverted and overturned the purpose of the Mandate, setting in place the problems we face today.

    I want Joe to see the full 700 pages that Grief poured into his opus magnum. I want him to really get a dose of the opposing view. The Nativ article is a mere summary of the book that was to follow.

  • @All

    I want to apologize to everyone sincerely. This was my first, or second article for Bc. Obviously I made a lot of mistakes and did not do my homework. I never meant to offend anyone. Muslims non-Muslims Christians non-Christians, Americans and others.
    Ruvy obviously you’re a professional writer/editor journalist? Alan you may also be a professional writer/journalist? You skills and knowledge are far and above what my menial skills are. I wrote the article on pure emotion and that was just the first mistake. I just wanted everyone to know that I am truly sorry.
    Kind Regards,

  • Joe The Blogger (#159), I accept you apology on one condition: that you accept mine.

    Regrettably, things got entirely out of hand, with raw emotion vanquishing common sense. I’m grateful that BC comments editor Christopher Rose rode to the rescue yesterday and restored order by deleting the most inflammatory remarks, including my own.

    Let’s hope those of us on all sides of this complex issue can learn from our experience here.

    Best wishes,
    Alan Kurtz

  • zingzing

    these hallucinations are getting out of control. what the fuck is happening?

  • @Alan

    I certainly accept your apology though I think it is me that ought be more apologetic for my lack of experience as blogger and writer. My article is so totally wrong in that I was not at all objective and didn’t even address the real issues. I admit to being too subjective and not being able to see the real issues.
    Yes regrettably things got out of hand and I bear the blame for that. I too am grateful the Christopher Rose restored order. Alan I want to personally apologize to you for the inflammatory,inane and awful remarks I made to you.
    I like you hope we can all learn the experience. I’m open to learning about and how to handle with objectivity such complex issues.
    Kind Regards to you Alan and to everyone.
    Alan there is actually a lot that I can learn from you and Ruvy bout such complex issues. Actually I can learn from everyone here.

  • Dehardt

    Would you please mention specific instances of terrorism against Islam (because of their religion, and not other social political views, such as during WWI, etc.) Mostly I see them the various Islamic groups as provocateurs, looking to start conflicts in order to preserve the standing of their leaders, such as in Palestine, and/or Hamas. True, they shoot lesser rockets at Israel, but they are almost always the initial aggressors.
    My own view is that in spite of the highly questionable instructions in the Quran, most Muslims are peaceable. However, the more fundamentalist they are, the more likely they are to believe that all infidels (including but not limited to Jews and Christians) must die and it is an honor and a service to Allah to do so.

  • polo

    Count Nukem Please go and read your own bible know your book first before you comment on a book you have never seen or touched. do not be an ignorant by just accepting everything that you hear from the media for they have an agenda.and please also check the following in your bible.
    APOSTASY: ” . . neither shall thine eye pity him (the apostate), neither shalt thou spare him, neither shalt thou conceal him: “But thou shalt SURELY KILL HIM: thine hand shall be first upon him TO PUT HIM TO DEATH . . .DEUTERONOMY I 3 -8 9

    MASSACRE: At the hands of the Jews— (a) “Now therefore KILL every male among the little ones, and KILL every woman (female) that hath known man by lying (having sex) with him. “But keep ALIVE for yourselves all the GIRLS and all the women who are VIRGINS.” NUMBERS 31:17-18 “And the Jews salvaged for themselves 32,000 virgins, verse 35; see also verse 40.(b) But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou (o Jews) shall save alive NOTHING that BREATHES. DEUTERONOMY 20:16(c) ‘And they (the Jews) UTTERLY DESTROYED all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep, and ASS, with the edge of the sword ” JOSHUA 6:21 (Even donkeys were not spared)(d) “He (Joshua) let NONE remain alive.” Joshua 10:28

  • Where’sAmerica?

    This blog isn’t about Catholic priests. If someone is going to bash American intolerance for being wise to the hatred of Islamic intolerance of everyone including themselves, then they need to educate themselves on the topic or remain ignorant and die that way.

  • true believer

    in the name of allah the most gracious, the most merciful. master of the day of judgment , and swift in punishment. say not a bad word of my lord and your lord. on that day u will regret but it will be to late for surley you will taste the flame of the endless fire…

  • true believer

    i love allah . have fear in your hearts , for if u do not, you will forever burn in the torment of the fire (of hell)

  • Liv

    The thing is, if the Muslims want us to respect their religion, they should respect ours. Stop buring flags and Bibles, and we will stop buring the Qurans. Peace to all!