On January 1, 1863, Abraham Lincoln issued his so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" supposedly freeing the slaves.
On January 1, 1863, Abraham Lincoln issued his so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" supposedly freeing the slaves.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
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26 - Al Barger
Thanks for your kind words Mr Larkin. I have, however, read the Dilorenzo book. I have not seen any of his factual claims disputed.
Now it may be possible that there are other facts he doesn't take into account, and there are certainly different ways of spinning them. Reality in such a big historical sweep of events tends to be more complicated than can be explained in a paragraph or two on a website. There may be some legitimate counterarguments. Fair enough.
Again, the main factual point here is that the Emancipation Proclamation by design did not free any slaves. It got lost a bit in the shuffle here, but Mr. Wolf up in #16 made an interesting counterclaim that there actually were a "handful" of slaves freed by the EP. Really? Tell us more.
27 - Al Barger
Ms Diva, if you'd mellow out on the slander, you might have something significant to contribute. I have in fact gone out of my way a bit to actively be nice to you since you've been here.
Indeed, as you may note from the "Happy Hate Crimes" post, even after you lost your mind on me, still I specifically dug this Lincoln post up to put here for the purpose of giving you a place to comment on it.
Indeed, your comment about the secession proclamations of the southern states above sounds like something I'd be interested in hearing more about. It might be that this would provide contrary evidence to a big chunk of my minority viewpoint on the war.
Two problems, though. One is that you are obviously prone to JUST FRICKIN' GO OFF FOR NO FRICKIN' REASON, which will tend to make others not want to play with you.
The other problem is credibility. I'm not saying this just to be crappy, but I know not to believe factually in the verity of what comes out of your mouth. You whip up evil mean stories about me among others that have no basis in fact. You make claims that you have to know have no basis. After a very few rounds of dishonesty, no one can believe you even when you are telling the truth.
If you have specific evidentiary documents that you'd like to refer us to vis a vis the secession statements of confederate states, feel free to share.
28 - Michael Croft
Al: Texas Ordinance of Secession. It ain't pretty. If Texas had had any sense, we'd've listened to Sam Houston and let the South hang. But we didn't.
29 - Michael Croft
mike,
I have to say that while you say "things do not always unfold because of underlying 'root causes'", I believe that it is a tautology that "things do always unfold because of underlying 'root causes'".
There is a long-running debate in historiography about the relative importance of institutional forces vs. individual actors. I tend to take a middle path, with an inclination to veer towards institutional forces. I think individual actors can influence the course of events, including the timing, but that without the underlying institutional forces, they could not do so.
The truism you refer to from Epstien seems to me to be an unfalsifiable assertion, and therefore incapable of being true or false. I find it unsatisfactory as a theory because it seems to suggest that no Hitler would have meant no National Socialism in Germany. I don't think that that deals adequately with the other individuals involved or with the rise of analogous fascist states in Italy and Spain, just to mention two near neighbors.
Mac,
I am willing to believe that a government would lie in their case for war and the justifications therefore. A historian of 130 years from now might be mistaken into thinking that Weapons of Mass Destruction were the cause of the current conflict and not a pretext.
In fact, the Texas Ordinance of Secession really does sex up the case for secession by overstating both the threat of Northern action against the slaveholders and the importance of slavery to the people of Texas.
Slavery was a huge issue, and a polarizing issue and an issue that reduced the fundamental conflict of two oligarchies over economics to something that people would fight for.
The other point I want to bring up about the EP was that Lincoln was a politician and timed the EP to be announced with news of a major Northern victory at Antietam. That makes sense. You don't land on the deck of the USS Emancipation Proclamation without a victory to show that you have a hope of enforcing your will.