Al Barger has second thoughts on Hunter S Thompson; who did he fear and loathe?
Hunter S Thompson was a shallow, selfish schmuck. Now, he made some at least moderately valuable contribution to the art of letters. His first person narrative style was innovative and highly readable. His adventures and rants were often more interesting than the idiot politicians he was writing about.…
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— go to most recent comments76 - Ben
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77 - Ben
Al,
You wrote "I would not, however, object to him getting high and having a good time. The objection there is that he chose to have those irrelevant things take over as the main subject of his writing. "
My question is this...why don't you set the fictitious book down if it bothers you so much, read something else, let the readers who enjoy his work enjoy it, and shut the hell up?!
Who made you the fucking Objection Police?!
78 - Ben
AL,
Are you LOATHING this wonderfull negative attention you get here? Or is it just good business for blogcritics? hmmm...
79 - roger
Al - Your comments are a typical FOX-style takedown of all anti-establishment figures.
Discredit and de-certify them personally, professionally, culturally, financially until they become irrelevant.
It would seem that the mainstream conservative media would have learned by now that this type of dis-information campaign against counter-culture heroes works in reverse.
Witness, what the takedown of the Dixie Chicks has done to their careers by making them darlings of a much broader, global audience.
So keep on tearing down Hunter.
Because it only makes his bright light shine brighter.
Hunter will be remembered long after we're dead and gone. Especially with narrow minded critics such as your self cheering from these blog sidelines.
We are onto your game Al and it won't work much longer.
Rave Al, rave on.
80 - Al Barger
Roger, hows about a little reality check for ya hear regarding my supposed "disinformation" campaign against poor HST? For starters, "disinformation" would mean that I'm saying things that aren't true. That is entirely incorrect.
Indeed, that is perfectly and perversely backwards. I don't like Sean Hannity, and I regularly feel strong urges to slap the taste out of Bill O'Reilly's mouth. However, they are not just making stuff up.
Hunter Thompson was known for just making stuff up - and presenting it as if it were fact. THAT is disinformation.
My objections to HST do not have anything to do with him simply being a liberal. Perhaps you need some work on reading comprehension skills.
Also, my supposed "game" of trying to discredit the counterculture, where did you get that from? You're really clueless about my perspective to think that.
Also, I question your idea of what even constitutes "counterculture." Who exactly is counter to what culture? By the time HST became prominent in the 70s, his professional rebel stuff was long since mainstream. HST became a thoroughly processed MSM commodity. He cussed and took a lot of dope- woo, wee, what a rebel! Some freaky snake handling evangelical, now THAT would be countercultural.
MY game is truth, and it will still be going when HST, Richard Nixon, and Dan Rather are all long gone.
81 - El Bicho
ENOUGH! I can't take anyone's whining anymore. For those of you upset by Al's comments, who cares what he has to write. His opinions will vanish into the ether if you let them go. Otherwise, his pieces will continue to appear in the Hot section. There's no need for the name-calling. You all sound like chicks who call the Tom Leykis show and get into arguments with him, not understanding what he's doing.
HST was praised and eulogized by Tom Wolfe, Douglas Brinkley, Mikal Gilmore and many, many other talented individuals across the nation and the world. Al didn't get Hunter, which says plenty about Al, but Hunter isn't for everyone. Why Al has to lash out because he didn't understand Hunter is beyond me, but then I didn't understand the people who felt they had to tell us that suicide was wrong or that Hunter was going to Hell. I disagreed, but I wasn't going to change anyone's minds, so why bother perpetuating tit-for-tat rantings?
---------------------------------------
Al, you do not know what Hunter was hired to do by Rolling Stone, Esquire, ESPN.com, et al. Were you there during the negotiations or did you have access to the contracts? Why would you pretend to have any knowledge in this regard? Does anyone pay you to write? If the editors had had a problem with what Hunter was doing, why would they have printed his work? If they were looking for strictly factual accounts, would they have published his stories and risked libel suits?
Hunter was known as a writer. He started out as a reporter, but then changed. Can you show me where he claimed that everything he wrote was fact? Have you even read his work because it is obvious he mixes fact and fiction in his storytelling? I've seen him say so in interviews and when I saw him speak in Long Beach, CA a number of years ago.
Lastly, in regards to your comment "However, they [O'Reilly & Hannity] are not just making stuff up." You must be joking. Did you really believe that Christmas was "under seige" as reported by these men? Where did you run into this calamity? I can only speak for California, but Christmas went off out here without a hitch. If you look on the web, there's many sites that track their lies and distortions.
Keep the traffic flowing however you see fit.
82 - gonzo marx
oh my...just one point here that i didn't make to good olde Al in another Thread..
"Of course, Thompson was a leftist."
i believe Libertarian is the word you are looking for here Al...HST believed in personal freedom...and guns..oh boy howdy did the good Doctor like his guns
not many "lefties" in that camp
there's more..but plenty of folks here are having a good time, and it's a bit late in the evening for me to dissect the partisan screed you have tossed up here
i would almost Respect your effort if you weren't picking on a dead man that can't defend himself
nuff said?
Excelsior!
83 - Al Barger
Thanks Gonzo, for your thoughtful criticism, and perhaps you might have some reasonable points. I certainly won't defend Rand's ridiculous "woman scorned" behavior with Branden.
However, HST was more leftist than a libertarian. He was libertarian only insofar as it involved things that HE liked to do, ie drugs and guns. But he voted for Nader, not Browne, and was constantly pushing the class envy against the "greedheads."
84 - gonzo marx
yer Welcome for the discourse Al...glad to engage
i still disagree on your assessment of HST as a "leftie"...merely because he did not vote the "party line" for the Libertarian ticket
as for his pushing against the "greedheads"..i agree there..that was a political crusade that he was constantly engaged in..it was his expressed belief that such sheer unadulterated greed leads to corporate excess that infringes on the Citizen's rights to "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" via various nefarious means
such as ...pollution, releasing faulty products dangerous to the consumer(a Nader argument, now thank Ralph for the seat belt..lol) and a list of other atrocities that i am certain we will disagree about...
to me, the whole point here about "greedheads" can be very simply put..
the Individual has those "inalienable Rights"...NOT the State...(as posited by both HSY and Rand)..but Hunter goes a step further...his underlying argument is that tho the State is empowered by the Citizens to act in THEIR behalf and interests as outlined by the Constitution and limited as per the Bill of Rights...Corporations have NO Rights
this line of Argument seems to have been swept under the rug in the last 20 years as Corporations are allowed to pillage and rape all they want in the name of the next quarters Bottom Line...and some precious few do it with a sense of Civic Reponsibility and Ethics...many do not
those that outsource our Jobs, that Lobby for the FCC to fine 500k for each incident of "indecency" yet place erectile dysfunction ads at all hours of the day and night (explain to YOUR 7 year old kid what that means) adn keep paying our Representitives to not only hike the aforementioned fines to those lofty levels, but KEEP the fines for dumping pollutants into our environment at a MAXIMUM of 25k per DAY..not per Incident...
well..those are the "greedheads"...not the capitalist "heros" of Rand...but the immoral swine that line their pockets at the expense of others well being
i, for one, applaud the good Doctor for that fight..and that is perhaps the best "Cause" he fought for in his writings..
the Jester is a very important Archetype for ANY society, Al...
somebody HAS to say when the Emperor is nekkid
and Hunter never hesitated to do so, in bold, unadulterated, and entertaining Style...
a big difference between a Reporter, and a Journalist...don't ya think?
Excelsior!
85 - QueenGonzo
"If I'd written all the truth I knew for the past ten years, about 600 people - including me - would be rotting in prison cells from Rio to Seattle today. Absolute truth is a very rare and dangerous commodity in the context of professional journalism."
Theres the words of hunter himself, telling you that his writing was not 100 percent factual. So stop feeling special Al, thinking you figured something out about hunter everyone else didn't know.
86 - Al Barger
Thank you QueenGonzo for that HST quote. It's a perfect example of his fakeness, pretending like he has this deep special knowledge of the Dark Truth. Plus, it's a good excuse for just making up lies when he couldn't come up with something legitimate to make a point.
87 - Mark Saleski
that's funny. you're perfectly fine with it when ann coulter makes up stuff.
ah, it must be the conservative bent...or perhaps the legs.
88 - gonzo marx
to big Al,
might i suggest actually (gasp) READING both campaign trails ..68 and 72
check around, those that were actually THERE have always stated that it was some of the best "reporting" done for both those elections
try "Hell's Angels" for straight up Journalism of the normal stripe
hell, try actually reading ANY of it with half the dedication and attention you give Rand...then we can talk
cuz i HAVE read both, and have drawn a simple conclusion
HST > Rand
nuff said?
Excelsior!
89 - Matthew
This comment is to the all the mongering idiots who posted negative comments about the late Hunter thompson.... All of you should be castrated like rabid dogs!!!!!!!
He is with out doubt one of the greatest writers of the 20th century his contributions to literature and american life will live on threw his works. He will always be remembered as our Greatest American Outlaw Journalist....LONG LIVE THE KING
90 - Temple Stark
you forgot these
blathering idiots
drooling idiots
pedantic idiots
obsessive idiots
borderline schizo idiots
and
perfect idiots
91 - Matthew
This comment is to the all the mongering idiots who posted negative comments about the late Hunter thompson.... All of you should be castrated like rabid dogs!!!!!!!!
He is with out doubt one of the greatest writers of the 20th century his contributions to literature and american life will live on threw the centuries... He will always be remembered as our Greatest American Outlaw Journalist....LONG LIVE THE KING
92 - Matthew
This comment is to the all the mongering fucks who posted negative comments about the late Hunter thompson.... All of you should be castrated like rabid dogs!!!!!!!!
He is with out doubt one of the greatest writers of the 20th century his contributions to literature and american life will live on threw the centuries... He will always be remembered as our Greatest American Outlaw Journalist....LONG LIVE THE KING
93 - LegendaryMonkey
Okay. These should be edited. They're repeated.
Also foolish, but so are most comments... like this one!
94 - Al Barger
Thanks, Matthew. Your thoughtful and literate comments provide a more eloquent testimonial to Thompson's genius and literary influence than I am capable of writing.
95 - adam
"Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" is an American classic, and will remain one for as long as there are American classics, which is more than one can say for Al Barger, who in honor of Hunter, should be sucking on a dead dog's ass until its head caves in.
96 - Al Barger
Thank you Adam. Along with Matthew previously, your words illustrate the wit and literary influence of HST better than I can explain.
97 - gonzo marx
well then big Al...try addressing my comments?
heh
my Question to you..how much of HST's work have you actually read from beginning to end in order to make your assessment of him as a writer?
thanks in advance
Excelsior!
98 - Al Barger
Surely not everything, GM. He just wasn't that compelling. I read a couple of whole books, with Campaign Trail 72 being the main one that stuck with me, along with a couple of dozen articles in magazine form. From those, I most remember some of him buying Carter in '76. Sucker! This was especially funny for someone who so much prided himself on cynicism.
But my challenge then to you, since you obviously put so much stock in this schmuck, why don't YOU write up a real article explaining what I'm missing. Not just a dozen words in my comments thread, but a real explanation of why this guy was supposedly so great.
What insights into the human condition did HST provide? Why should I give a rat's ass about this hateful drunken jackass more than 1,000 other writers out there?
Why should I regard HST as being more than the inspiration for guys like Adam and Matthew in the comments above?
99 - gonzo marx
well..because i say so?
ummm...ok..too subjective...
seriously..if you read Campaign Trail and still don't get it, then i probably can't explain it to you any better than we can reconcile the differences in much of our musical tastes...
you enjoy C&W that bores me to death, and i enjoy Tool, which doesn't scratch your sonic itch
viva la differance i guess...or to quote Neal Peart of Rush
just between us...
I think it's time for us to Recognize,
the Differences, we sometimes Fear to show.
just between us...
I think it's time for us to Realize,
the Spaces in this Weave...
leave room...
for you and I to Grow.
nuff said?
Excelsior!
100 - Mark Saleski
why don't YOU write up a real article explaining what I'm missing
because that would be a few hours of gonzo's life that he'd never be able to get back?
101 - Al Barger
No, NOT nuff said. You are a full fledged member Blogcritic. Your very moniker is an HST reference.
I've made my case against HST here.
Now YOU need to make a case for him. Tell me why I should regard him as anything more significant than Adam, Matthew, and I have portrayed him.
102 - gonzo marx
oh Al...that would be fine...
if i was any kind of writer myself, which i am not
a Conversationalist...yes...someone who has an occasionally coherant Thought, or a differing Insight into something...?
at times and upon occasion
but a "writer" ...nah..i tried a few, remember?
i can still hear the crickets chirping in the emptyness of the comment area's blankness...
not only that, but what you are Asking for is an Argument...and as i have stated above, my Thought is that appreciation for Art is purely Subjective and cannot usually be explained , or quantified , in the type of communicable format you are talking about
i will say this...HST embodied much of the Libertarian principles you seem to espouse...he Lived them..larger than most could survive and on a daily basis
you refer to him as "selfish"...and i retort..only in the Randian sense...and he still did more to share his peculiar Insights about our Nation than most who proclaim to do so from some type of altruistic motivation...
so i must conclude my own Observation of yoru own rantings in this thread as well as the original Post with a simple , two word analysis....
jealous much?
Excelsior!
103 - Wild Bill
Sometimes, it's enough of a 'contribution' to the cesspool of culture just to *piss on the parade.
Somebody's gotta do it.
Ironically, the same spirit embodied by Hunter Thompson's work cannot be applied when posting to "the cesspool of culture" at blogcritics.org, because one will be edited, censored, or worse, even banned in the process of "piss(ing) on the parade." I don't understand what some people are afraid of by not permitting the full range of free speech.
104 - Cerulean
He had some faults but the man is dead. This is not a critique, it's pathological.
105 - Wild Bill
because that would be a few hours of gonzo's life that he'd never be able to get back?
Let's not act as if explaining Thompson would be like explaining Dostoevsky. You can explain or defend Thompson's value to the world in about five minutes.
Another poster was incorrect. Thompson was not a Libertarian. True Libertarians exhibit self-discipline and maturity in their lives by using their freedoms appropriately. Thompson was anything but appropriate in his personal behavior. He behaved like an adolescent throughout all his life. I have to laugh, however, at the people that would place such an individual on a pedestal. I would think that mature and sensible adults would look to emulate and champion individuals that embody only the finest of human virtues. I was taught that if you look up to losers you most likely will become a loser, too, along the lines of making the choice of "soaring with eagles or wallowing with pigs."
I judge the totality of a human being's character, not just their work. I can't separate their behavior from the work. It's impossible.
106 - wild bill
This post about 'greedheads' made me chuckle for several reasons.
Thompson, like many of his counterculture bretheren, were very good at pointing the finger at others. But really, how often did they stop to look in the mirror to judge their own behavior? Most of Thompson's work could very easily be placed in the Pot/kettle argument category.
I also have to chuckle when the populists get their knickers in a twist over corporations. I have always believed it is the people who possess the least materially that complain the most about people who gain the most materially. Instead of complaining about the haves, they should take that energy and apply it to figuring out how to amass more capital and material wealth for themselves.
107 - Phillip Winn
Wild Bill, comments #103 and #105, read together, are instructive. If people "exhibit self-discipline and maturity in their lives by using their freedoms appropriately," then they need not fear being "edited, censored, or worse, even banned," here or anywhere else.
It's not just a Libertarian ideal, it's an adult expectation.
108 - Wild Bill
That's all fine and good, Mr. Winn, but the standards governing "adult expectation" are rather scattershot and randomly applied on a whim, it seems, especially at this website. Any celeb or non-celeb should toe the same line as far as personal limits go here or anywhere else. Thompson gets to inveigh against his targets and is lauded a hero. Certain posters here inveigh against their targets and are edited, censored, or banned. This is the reason the rules are not respected because the gatekeepers are flawed and inconsistent.
109 - gonzo marx
excuse me there Wild Bill...but HST did NOT publish his stuff here on Eric Olsen's webspace..
therefore to compare his screed with stuff here on BC is apples to humvees
that being said...
the bit with greedheads...glad you found it amusing...but you seem to miss the point..the point is not that it is bad to make money and better yourself economically...far from it...the point is about a little thing called "ethics" in doing so..
working hard, and smart and providing a quality good or service at a reasonable profit is all kinds of good...now compare that ..oh, let's say Enron, where artificial market manipulation as well as fictitious and illegal accounting practices were used to reap huge profits at the expense of the consumer...
THAT is the definition of the kind of "greedhead" swine spoken of in my previous comment as well as in some of HST's work...
hope that helps explain...
Excelsior!
110 - Wild Bill
mr. marx: I would then submit that it is also troublesome to suffer from envy over what others have, no matter how they acquired it. The greed of others does not impact your life directly.
Just think that Enron wouldn't have had to resort to unscrupulous business practices if they hadn't been federally regulated and taxed to death. Think about why so many companies want to flee our shores. There's your answer.
111 - gonzo marx
and i must still disagree..
in the energy trading business they wee in, Enron had almost no competition and the concept was so new, there was little to no regulation fo rwhat they did
i submit their price manipulation of the California energy market as an example
being based in Texas and utilizing Anderson Accounting, they paid little taxes, and were known for their donations to the places wherein their facilities resided...
no, there were no external pressures to force them to spend literally billi0ns on artwork that the executives never looked upon, nor the other excesses which are well documented form the Anderson scandal
the ONLY pressure upon them was to keep up with the inflated earnings predictions of Wall Street that arose as a result from the scandalously huge profits reaped in the early stages of their market manipulation when they had little overhead and named their own profit
in the end , they, like those ompanies that call themselves american but hold their corporate offices in the Grand Caymans etc , to avoid paying their proper share of taxes to maintain this nation, are motivated not by ethical business standards and practices, not for any concern relating to those within the company outside of the management oligarchy...but with one thing only...
sheer, unadulterated Greed
and utilizing the ethically bankrupt posulate of the Ends justify the Means, they will do anything to continuously grow those profits, no matter the long term, community or national cost
a prime example of unregulated growth, the model which these executives strive for?
cancer
try www.theyrule.net
Excelsior!
112 - Dave Nalle
I believe I said all that needs to be said in my obit on Thompson last year. It basically comes down to one simple fact.
His writing was fun to read. What more can we ask for from a writer?
Dave
113 - troll
Gonzo - on what do you recommend one base his 'ethics' when faced with the abyss (of realism)
'dog eat dog' and all...'if I don't do it somebody else will'...'can't make an omlette without fucking over some eggs'...etc
HST used 'utter disgust and contempt' which doesn't seem to be your parachute
you an idealist or what - ?
troll
114 - gonzo marx
firstly, well said, Mr Nalle...what more can be asked indeed...
and not to troll, my fine flinty friend..you have indeed hit upon the nut of the matter, as you usually do..
go up to comment #111 and click my name..it shoudl take you to my almost non-existant blog, where you will find a single Article dealing with this exact matter...titled Ends versus Means
have a little read, and come on back if you still have a Question...for you, i would be most happy to feebly attempt explaining what resides in the sludgy confines of my skull...
Excelsior!
115 - Barry Stoller
When Ann Rand attempted to blow Goldwater in '64, he gave her the brush. When HST called McGovern in '71, he got the welcome mat. Ignoring the usual ideological conclusions that could be drawn from this, it is reasonable to suggest, in the unique atmosphere of the generation gap, HST played an important role in getting the voice of the street heard in the halls of power. It's embarrassingly evident Barger is consumed with professional envy regarding HST.
116 - wild bill
Rubbish, mr. stoller. The "voice of the street" seems to serve as your convenient euphemism for the counterculture. The "voice of the street" where I am from was the voice of the immigrant family worker who didn't have time for the counterculture. He or she was concerned with earning a living for their family and surviving, not what was going on in the jungle 12,000 miles away or in a court room in Chicago.
As for Rand and Goldwater, that wouldn't have happened if Rand had been a man.
117 - Barry Stoller
Contrasting "immigrant family worker[s]" with the "counterculture" is demotic demagoguery. Since when isn't the middle-class (counterculture in those years) a pertinent voice on the street? Those people stopped the war, have some respect.
118 - Wild Bill
Having survived that era, mr. stoller, I can say with all certainty that there was the "counterculture" (hippie stoners, most college professors, radical insurrectionists --i.e. Black Panthers, the SDS, Weather Underground, Yippies--, fifth columnists, members of the news media, etc) and all the rest ... the mainstream middle class of society, that despised the foregoing. Were you there? Did you remember that? I certainly do, because unlike many of my fellow baby boomers, I wasn't drinking and drugging myself into submission and having sex with anything that moved. I was not carrying a picket sign or spitting on my country, so my recollections are very lucid and accurate.
119 - Wild Bill
also, mr. stoller, I have no respect for a subculture of American society that forced us to abandon our mission in Indochina, which permitted the Communists to pave the way for Pol Pot and the killing fields of Cambodia.
120 - gonzo marx
the period should have been right after "I have no respect."
there...fixxed...
ok, snarky Jesting aside...
can we agree that Cambodia is NOT Viet Nam?
can we agree that, contrary to certain CIA operation, it was unlawful for any US forces to even be in Cambodia?
can we agree that Pol Pot was one of the nastiest humans of the 20th century but that he had very little to do with any internal activities in Nam?
with that being said...your Argument equates to apples versus the space shuttle
and, personally, i find i tdisturbing that you would abandon the representitive democratic process that enabled a certain segment of the American population to excercise their Rights under the Constitution to influence governmental policy
your mileage may vary
Excelsior!
121 - Wild Bill
His writing was fun to read. What more can we ask for from a writer?
I don't know, how about being factual and objective for starters and cutting out the subjective hyperbole?
If I want fun, I'll go to an amusement park. When I read something, I want to learn and be informed, not "entertained."
122 - gonzo marx
then choose more carefully...
if you want Objective, whould you choose to read Twain or Will Rogers?
yet both could be Informative and Enlightening on many subjects
HST was of that vein, rather than some type of objective reporter
satire, allegory, metaphor, out and out "fish stories" ..these were utilized to make the points he was interested in communicating...
if such is not your cup of tea...try a newspaper
it's like comparing CNN to the Daily Show
hope that helps
Excelsior!
123 - troll
I can't believe that you guys are gonna debate Vietnam...wait - let me get my popcorn
*Those people stopped the war, have some respect*
Have some respect for the Vietnamese who stopped the war by winning
Gonzo - I enjoyed the read but you left out the part where Mr E fights viciously for market share accepting lower short term profits and massive advertising expenses in order to marginalize Mr M whose higher quality product becomes an anachronism
I'm not so sure that sustainable growth - itself an oxymoron - is stable ground on which to build an ethic
but if it works for you...
I'd prefer sustainable shrinking
troll
124 - Barry Stoller
> Have some respect for the Vietnamese who stopped the war by winning
That's a good point. I agree. Let me rephrase my point: Have some respect for the US middle class who stopped US support for the losing war.
125 - Al Barger
No Barry, it was NOT a "losing war" for US. We never lost a single major battle. We only lost because we simply quit and walked away- which is not to say that we should have been there in the first place.