When you hear the annoying braying of those who Most Alway Complain that everything and everyone is a white racist plot, put it in a bit of context. Less than a century ago, it would seem reasonable to a man of Mencken's erudition that there would have to be some literal major race war before the black man would begin to get proper treatment.
Call me a glutton for punishment, but the inability of people to have open, rational, civil discussions of racial issues makes me nuts.…
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26 - bhw
Okay, so I read part of "Defense of Women." What I took away is that the guy looked at women through the lens of stereotypes. That and the fact that he was an utter snob.
I can't say that I find this very endearing [about the suffragettes]:
Parenthetically, I may add that all of the ladies to take to this
political immolation seem to me to be frightfully plain. I know those of England, Germany and Scandinavia only by their portraits in the illustrated papers, but those of the United States I
have studied at close range at various large political gatherings, including the two national conventions first following the extension of the suffrage. I am surely no fastidious fellow--in fact, I prefer a
certain melancholy decay in women to the loud, circus-wagon brilliance of youth--but I give you my word that there were not five women at either national convention who could have embraced me in camera without first giving me chloral. Some of the chief
stateswomen on show, in fact, were so downright hideous that I felt faint every time I had to look at them.
The reform-monging suffragists seem to be equally devoid of the more caressing gifts. They may be filled with altruistic passion, but they certainly have bad complexions, and not many of them know how to dress their hair. Nine-tenths of them advocate reforms
aimed at the alleged lubricity of the male-the single standard, medical certificates for bridegrooms, birth-control, and so on. The motive here, I believe, is mere rage and jealousy. The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive
to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive
woman has any such desire. She likes masculine admiration, however violently expressed, and is quite able to take care of herself.
Now, there's an enlightened fellow! What scares me most, I think, is that it's so familiar. You can still hear this crap from some men [and even some women] about today's vocal feminists: they're just bitter because they can't get man.
Of course, this line made me laugh:
Nine men out of ten would be quite happy, I believe, if there were no women in the world, once they had grown
accustomed to the quiet.
Seriously, I'm still chuckling at that line. It's funny.
But it seems Mencken only felt defensive of *some* women. Here's a hint: it wasn't those modern gals he liked best. Sure, he takes pot shots at men and says that women are intelligent, but he still goes to great effort to explain why women aren't suited to being, say, lawyers, while they are more naturally suited to being, say, nurses. You know, women's work.
And what's with all these women not taking pride and joy in their housework?! Why isn't that good enough for them? Why do they need men to provide them with canned peas and other modern conveniences? Stop faking frailty and scrub those floors with pride, bitch! Sheesh.
So what I read were the thoughts of a man who breathed gross generalizations and stereotypes into every sentence on the page.
Then again, there weren't too many men in the 1920s who liked the idea of women gaining independence, even if they couldn't deny their right to vote. And the sorts of stereotypes he writes about were commonplace at that time.
I doubt I'll be reading too much more Mencken any time soon, mostly because I don't have the time and it's hard to make myself plow through that overly formal style of his.
27 - Al Barger
Hmm BHW- you have an interesting take there. Now, you may find him offensive. That's a purely subjective judgment- but one in which you would not be alone, nor necessarily unjustified.
On the other hand, you found his style "overly formal?" That seems like an odd take to me. He wrote in good grammar and didn't drop the F bomb every other word, but I would generally think of his style quite the opposite. I'd be more likely to describe him as, say, "freewheeling" rather than "overly formal."
Also, you suggest his comments about women seem to be motivated by "rage and jealousy." You've DEFINITELY got him all wrong there. I can't think of a single moment in all of his voluminous writings that I would describe with either of those words.
Mencken took great joy in writing. The image I take of him is best represented in this famous quote about a contemporary fellow journalist:
"One reporter, peering through Mencken's window late at night after one rally, recalled watching him at work alone in his hotel room, pounding out copy on a typewriter propped on a desk. He would type a few sentences, read them, slap his thigh, toss his head back, and roar with laughter. Then he would type some more lines, guffaw, and so on until the end of the article."
Now THAT'S the Mencken I know and love.
You can perfectly well be offended by Mencken. Many people were in the day. He was denounced from a great many pulpits in his day- and was right proud of it.
Looking at the Defense of Women book, you can take some digs at women out of it, but my perception put it about one part criticism of women to ten parts criticism of men. And some parts that weren't really a criticism of either. Not that women can't take their rhetorical lumps like the guys.
Not that I would feel the need to defend every word the guy wrote. Nor would he want anyone to be a blind apologist for him. He'd HATE that kind of subservience.
Going back momentarily to race relations, Mencken was a significant aid to the Harlem renaissance going on during his prime time. He went out of his way as a magazine editor to publish numerous black writers.
As bad as he hate do-gooders of all stripes, he would have rejected any credit for being charitable. More valuably- and no doubt honestly- he would have claimed to have hired his writers strictly on the merits.
28 - bhw
Al, the paragraph that says "mere rage and jealousy" are Mencken's words, not mine. It should have been in italics. He's talking about the suffragettes and their activism: they're the ones acting on "mere rage and jealousy" at not having men chase after them because they're so ugly, according to Mencken.
Yes, I do find his writing style formal by today's standard, and it has nothing to do with the f-bomb or lack thereof. The first sentence I quoted is an example: Parenthetically, I may add that all of the ladies to take to this
political immolation seem to me to be frightfully plain.
Here's how someone would write that today: "Did you ever notice that feminists are ugly?"
That style is probably typical of the time, though.
I don't find him all that offensive in this particular book, either. I do think he's writing about fairly common stereotypes of women, although he seems to believe he has some new twist to offer on those stereotypes. I don't find him to be doing women any big favors in this book, though.
In his opinions of women, he seems to be a product of his time. It's not that offensive to me because I already know that's just how it was.
29 - Al Barger
D'oh! My bad on the 'rage and jealousy' thing. Mea culpa.
The Defense of Women is not particularly considered his top work- though I found it pretty amusing- but it was convenient at hand for free download.
You may want to dig some of his coverage of the Scopes monkey trial. He was the model for the cynical reporter played by Gene Kelly in Inherit the Wind. He cheerfully hooked the teacher up with his fancy lawyer, then rushed to Tennessee to cover the trial. It was fun being HL, no doubt.
For example, try THIS COLUMN from his coverage, in which he snuck up one night on a revival meeting in the Tennessee woods, talking about it as if it were an anthropological expedition in the jungle.
30 - Shark
bhw, he was a satirist first and foremost. You have to bear in mind that it was his job to be a snob, part of his persona, and much of what he said was over-the-top, tongue-in-cheek, and/or merely meant to be provocative.
He was a Professional Literary Curmudgeon!
--Which, as you can guess, is why some people [around here] like his writing.
Oh, and Mencken embodied my own personal mantra;
"I don't discriminate; I loathe everybody."
31 - Chris Kent
Shark,
Tis' a fine line between love and loathe....
32 - bhw
bhw, he was a satirist first and foremost.
That was my problem, I guess. I don't know enough about him and haven't read enough of his writing to know what tone he was really using.
33 - sheri
Well Al, all I know is...if this were happening in my workplace...an angry black woman with a racist axe to grind, going after the white boy who is sick and tired of hearing the shit and determined to fight fire with fire......(this does appear to be what's happening here)....everyone, black and white, would be ducking under their desks . It's embarassing really.I'm not sure what that says about how far we have come with racisim.
34 - Shark
Sheri, I have to agree with Al.
What McD says and does around here has NO EQUIVALENT ANYWHERE else on these boards.
(I have a MUCH more direct knowledge of what she's capable of 'off the boards' that even Al does, btw.)
You won't see these kinds of public, outrageous, irresponsible, unsubstantiated, and slanderous accusations coming from Barger.
He tries to stay on point, tries to argue the facts or the philosophy, and I've never seen him say ANYTHING explicitly racist. Not once.
In fact, if one actually reads the guy's stuff with an open mind, he's really just a Libertarian Teddy Bear with a sense of humor.
(BTW: It's against Libertarian bylaws to have a sense of humor, so the boy is RARE!)
McD, on the other hand, is the most humorless person I've ever met.
And Al and I couldn't be farther apart on political issues, but the relentless, immoral, and unethical attacks by whats-her-name have brought us together to fight a common evil.
(heh)
35 - sheri
Then start confronting her directly, gloves off, instead of masking it in intelligent garb.Maybe that's what she wants. If Al has real issues here, and is not able to ignore her, then he needs to be direct. Tell it like it is.If she dissappears, it doesn't mean she's not reading and hearing you.
But wait until I leave the building :0)
36 - Phillip Winn
No, don't.
37 - sheri
So if compromise doesn't work, and blunt, honest, and brutal spilling of one's guts doesn't work....then what?
38 - bhw
Maybe everyone could just stick to the arguments people make, rather than arguing about the people themselves?
Nah.
39 - Chris Kent
Sheri,
Join me in the bunker here before you lose a hand or an arm or something....Trust me, you are strolling within the deadly space....
40 - Shark
Rational Phillip: "No, don't."
(sound of Shark zipping his lips)
Rational Sheri: "...if compromise doesn't work, and blunt, honest, and brutal spilling of one's guts doesn't work....then what?"
Nothing works.
(We're praying for a personal epiphany, a dose of empathy, a newfound sense of humor, and some effective *hormone therapy.)
*c'mon, yall, it's a joke!
41 - sheri
*headed to the bunker* woohooo! I'd much rather savor the tasty and nutritious qualities of cheese doodles and flirt instead of work. ;0)
42 - Chris Kent
*headed to the bunker* woohooo! I'd much rather savor the tasty and nutritious qualities of cheese doodles and flirt instead of work.
lol....I don't believe I have EVER been so charmingly insulted.......
43 - HW Saxton Jr.
Leaving H.L's personal politics by the
wayside,I think that some of his finest
writing is found in his correspondence
with the California writer John Fante of
"Ask The Dust" fame.
44 - Al Barger
Shark, re: comment 34- Perhaps you need to review the new House Rules about name calling. "Teddy bear" my ass. I'm cuddly like a frickin' grizzly. I'll rip your head off and poopie down your neck like a big bear in the woods.
Mom, Shark's looking at me. Make him stop.
45 - sheri
Daddy says we got to be NICE.Specialy to bears who poop on people. I gots 10 dollers in my piggy bank, and I'm goin to buy the nawtee bear a butt plug.:0)
46 - Shark
AL: "I'll rip your head off and poopie down your neck like a big bear in the woods."
Don't be fooled: that's just his way of saying "l love you, man!"
47 - apparent bad guy
Don't Involve Valid Arguments
ROTFLMAO....I get it....
You are a clever man, Barger....
"Many Also Concurr"
48 - apparent bad guy
McD, on the other hand, is the most humorless person I've ever met.
No sh*t. It's almost artistic. I have never seen anyone so consumed with the
desire to discuss races, racism, and biases 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Mencken wasn't a genius, but he was funny.