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Before You Go, Teddy: Thank You

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This week it's become increasingly clear that Senator Edward Moore Kennedy may not be with us much longer.  His absence from Washington during this critical time in health care reform, coupled with the death of his beloved sister Eunice Kennedy Shriver, has made it apparent that the end is imminent.  Before the pundits start their reminiscences and the country enters a protracted period of official mourning, there's still some work left for Congress to do before Teddy begins his next journey.

I'm a child of Massachusetts.  I sat in front of the television with Mom and Dad when Jack became President.  As a kid I remember the press conferences during the Cuban Missile Crisis and finally the coverage of our fallen President.  There he was, in his march down the Avenue on that cold winter day, with Bobby and Jackie behind their fallen President.  Young, handsome and incredibly charismatic Teddy Kennedy was embarking on his rendezvous with destiny.  Not even 5 years after Jack Kennedy's death, Teddy would once again have to step up to the plate and lead his family in mourning with the death of Bobby.  We had such dreams for Bobby.  In 1968, Bobby was our last best hope when taken away from us by a bullet.

In that span between losses, Teddy became Senator from Massachusetts.  He survived an airplane crash which left him in pain even today.  But with all the personal losses, family tragedies and sacrifices, Teddy Kennedy persevered.  The tabloids were rampant with pictures of Joan Kennedy wearing miniskirts to White House functions.  There were the reports of drinking, womanizing and Chappaquiddick.  Despite all the drama, the voters of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts sent him back to do the people's work.  The one hallmark issue of Teddy's career is health care:it is fitting that, in the winter of his Senatorial tenure, this debate is now front and center in the American agenda.  And as he clings to life, Kennedy remains driven by the debate and frustrated by his inability to be on the Hill.

Conservative pundits can demonize him; label him a left wing liberal or whatever else they desire.  The truth is that no Senator in the last 50 years has done more to foster a bipartisan dialog in the Senate.  Teddy has never limited himself to Democratic friendship.  He's crossed the divide and gained the respect of his Republican colleagues more often than not.  In a speech at the Reagan Library in 2007, Kennedy characterized his relationship with Republican President Ronald Reagan."He was always a good friend and a gracious foe," Kennedy said. "He wanted to defeat his opponents, but not destroy them."  In discussing the end of the Cold War, Kennedy made his point. "It had been waged as a bipartisan enterprise by Republican and Democratic Congresses and administrations from the first moment to the last."

In the next few weeks, many of you will learn a lot about Teddy Kennedy and his impact on the political stage.  You'll hear anecdotes, personal stories and a lot of pundits debating his impact.  But will we learn what's important?  Teddy donated his Senate salary.  Sure, he comes from a wealthy family.  No doubt much of the Kennedy fortune may have had its roots in illegal activities.  And as much as Teddy adored his father, he wasn't as ruthless as Joe Kennedy.  There's always been an air of gentleness and humility about him,  and it is quite clear that Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy's commitment to public service rubbed off — especially on Teddy.  For us in Massachusetts, it is a time for reflection, giving thanks and quiet trepidation as we actually consider who could replace him.  I'd venture to guess that no politician will ever live up to the legend that is Ted Kennedy.

When news of Kennedy's brain cancer spread in Spring, 2008, Senator Robert Byrd, the most senior member of the Senate, was reduced to tears in a speech on the Senate floor.  He wasn't the only one.  Other Senators were grief stricken.  Congressional staffers walked in disbelief — could it be that the Lion of the Senate would be no more?  Throughout 2008, Kennedy made risky political decisions.  He bestowed his blessing on Barack Obama, and the rest is history.  When he collapsed at the luncheon following the Inauguration, the new President interrupted the celebration to tend to his friend and mentor.  In his face you could see the anguish.  Yet there were those of us who thought that Teddy's journey with America's destiny had been fulfilled with the election of the first African American President.  We were wrong.  He had work remaining.

I could cite one example after another, but I'll leave that to the journalists and pundits.  While Teddy continues his battle, the state of the union weighs heavily upon him.  After all that his family has sacrificed in service to this nation he deserves to rest — yet he prevails.  This week the President and his family will be guests on Martha's Vineyard.  Rumors run rampant that the President will travel to Hyannis to pay homage to the ailing Senator, health permitting.  If that does occur, I'm certain that the President will deliver a message thanking him for his service on behalf of all of us .  So, as you learn more about Teddy Kennedy the Senator over the next few months, ask yourself if you could have sacrificed half as much.  While health care should be his legacy, I hope that Teddy's own words resonate above the hyperbole. 

In delivering Bobby's Eulogy, Teddy said, "My brother need not be idealized, or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life; to be remembered simply as a good and decent man, who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it."  Those words were spoken 41 years too soon, as they fit the man who delivered them.  On August 18, 1980, Kennedy delivered an emotional speech before the Democratic Convention acknowledging his campaign for the Presidency was at an end.  It was an emotional moment for Kennedy, the party and the nation.  Last year, he gave what is conceivably the last speech he will ever deliver to the DNC.  And those words which he so eloquently delivered 28 years previous were once repeated.  "For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Edward Moore Kennedy, Senator.  Teddy Kennedy, husband, father, uncle, patriarch.  Ted Kennedy, citizen of the United States.  Regardless of our differences, we need to take a moment and remember all that he accomplished.  And, as we experience this process where he slips away from us one final time, there is an opportunity for us to express our gratitude.  Should the President meet the Senator this week, there will be nostalgia in the air within the Beltway.  While the journalists won't say it openly, there will be a symbolic final passing of the torch.  And in that passing Teddy needs to be reminded of his own words, "the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."  While he has many titles, the one which fits most is Edward Moore Kennedy — Public Servant.

Thank you, Teddy, from this member of the public you served. 

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  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos-/ Christine

    I like Teddy Kennedy, he’s a good man! Chris Matthews will be airing a documentary about the Kennedy Brothers, but not sure when . “Mr. Matthews will return to the subject of the Kennedy legacy in an in-depth, hour-long documentary for MSNBC, called The Kennedy Brothers.”

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    I believe the documentary is scheduled for airing on Aug 27. I don’t agree with 75% of Teddy’s platform but that doesn’t reduce my admiration or respect for him. Taking all the drama out of the equation, the Kennedys have been a fixture in Massachusetts since the days of Honey Fitz. It’s hard to imagine Commonwealth politics without him.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    It’s admirable, Silas, that you’re paying a tribute to Teddy, for indeed he’s not going to be with us much longer. Even more so in light of the fact you disagree with much of his politics. It is undeniable however that the Kennedy clan, for better or worse, represented a defining, pivotal moment in American politics, and the repercussions are still with us. In a sense, it’s not so far fetched to view Clinton’s and Obama’s presidencies as extension of the Kennedy idea and their brand of idealism.

    And the idea lives on.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    I try to be fair, Roger. I’ve read a lot on Teddy in the last few weeks and have come to see that there is so much we don’t know about him. His public service and its impact upon this country probably won’t be fully understood until the next generation of historians begin their work.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I believe what was the extra motivation for Teddy that his presidential ambitions were shot. Once he had resigned himself to that fate, there was no longer a personal ambition standing in the way: consequently, he devoted himself to being a public servant. (And of course, personal enrichment via politics was never a consideration.)

    Something to be said for the kind of profile that’s optimal for an ideal politician/statesman/public servant.

  • Lumpy

    I thought he was already dead. Wouldn’t it be cool to see republicans take both Massachusetts senate seats next fall that would certainly send aessage.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    NO, sending two Republicans from Massachusetts would be a disaster. It’s already unfortunate that we elected Mitt Romney to be Governor. Your insensitivity to Sen Kennedy, Lumpy, is indicative of your desire to hold firm to those so-called “conservative” values you celebrate. As a Goldwater Conservative, I take issue with the conservative faction that seeks to destroy the fabric of this nation. If the GOP returned to the party of Goldwater inroads could be made in the next election cycle. This party is not the party of Boehner, Ashcroft and McConnell. They lead because they’ve advanced to positions of power within the Minority in Congress. That’s the next issue we need to tackle — TERM LIMITS. As far as I am concerned no member of the House should serve more than a total of 11 years (5 elected terms, max) and Senators 15 years (2 elected terms max). There needs to be a shakeup of the way leadership is achieved in Congress and there must be an equitable distribution of “power”.

    And, Roger, Ted Kennedy’s performance proves my point. Once he realized he would never be President (not that he ever really wanted to), he became even more effective in forging dialogue. Lumpy and his Far Right elitists are so blinded by the “liberal” Ted Kennedy. They refuse to recognize his accomplishments and contributions to the American political debate — and that to me is completely un-American.

  • Doug Hunter

    I do take a bit of issue with the characterization of people as ‘public servants’. Even if it’s not strictly for money (and for politician’s often it isn’t), there is power and influence to be had in government and the type of person who desires to have power and influence over others I don’t hold in high regard.

    I certainly wouldn’t hold his cush, if public, job as any higher a service than say, cleaning the shit out of the sewer system or picking up trash, delivering mail, building homes for people, growing food, or joining the military. In a way, everyone who works as a productive member of society is a public servant and deserves as much respect and outpouring of sentiment as the much blessed Mr. Kennedy. They will not get it.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Good points, Mr. Hunter. But that does not discount the fact that in some way Ted Kennedy has affected the life of each and every American.

  • Clavos

    …in some way Ted Kennedy has affected the life of each and every American.

    ???

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    By virtue of his legislative history, Clav. When one studies his history in the Senate what emerges is a complex array of legislative victories and defeats. Further study reveals that Kennedy, above most Democrats, attempted to forge a working relationship with the Reagan White House in a congenial manner.

  • zingzing

    read #7, clavos.

  • Arch Conservative

    Chappaquiddick

  • Jordan RIchardson

    Classy as always, Arch.

  • Arch Conservative

    Ah yes, Ted Kennedy, the patron saint of vehicular homocide, has brain cancer so we must all suck up to him now and pretend his life was nothing but an uninterupted streak of altruistic goodness right?

    Well I aint havin any of it.

    It’s a lie.

    Even now on death’s door he is exhbiting the elitism and disregard for anyone that isn’t on the Kennedy love train by seeking to subvert the MA state law so that instead of having a special election, the Dem Governor, Deval Patrick (another winner) can install a Democrat Senator in office.

    Oh and Silas claiming that Teddy never wanted to be president……….how rich is that? Of course he wanted to be president. It’s just that he knew he never could because all the nation is not Massachusetts and it’s a littler hard to sweep a thing like Chappaquiddac under the rug just because your name is Kennedy when you’re running for national office.

    The Kennedys always have and always will put themselves first. However it looks like with Senator Swimmer on the way out their dynasty truly has come to an end.

    hip hip hooray

    hip hip hooray

    hip hip hooray

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Yeah, shame on you Arch for bringing up Teddy’s ugly past! How was he supposed to know that girl couldn’t breath under water. I’m sure he thinks everyone has gills…I mean he’s been drinking vodka and breathing at the same time for years!

  • Jordan Richardson

    has brain cancer so we must all suck up to him now and pretend his life was nothing but an uninterupted streak of altruistic goodness right?

    Empathy and compassion are generally good qualities, but you tend to avoid them like the plague. There’s a little something called tact, Arch, but I suppose that’s something you avoid due to your own moral perfection.

    I’m glad you feel qualified to blurt out one-word replies to an article like this and I’m happy you feel it enriches the discussion. As I said, it’s very classy.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Yeah Arch, just because he’s a murderer whose family got all their money from bootlegging is no reason to pick on him! Shame on you! He’s sick! Like the Lockerbee guy, we should all feel sorry for the murderers!

  • Ruvy

    If you read Silas’ tribute, you could almost forget that little event with the girl dying in the water. Chappaquiddick forced Ted Kennedy to emasculate himself of his ambition to be the American Chief Magistrate. Had Mary Joe Kopechnie lived – or had Kennedy handled the event with more bravery than cowardice, he would have been just another ambitious, pushy and rich Massachusetts Kennedy heading for a violent death, like John-John, and Robert Jr.

    But events didn’t turn out that way. Now, like his father Jittery Joe, he will die in his old age of cancer. Joe Kennedy was a bastard. Ted Kennedy may have been a coward, or he may have been a murderer; it’s not for me to accuse when I do not know all the facts. But in the end he has been a better man than his father was.

    Let it stand that way.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Damn. Such an unforgiving lot. Obviously even all the praise heaped upon Kennedy by Conservatives in Congress won’t budge any of you. Welcome to the Rush Limbaugh generation — the new millennium’s equivalent of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Youth.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    You’ll just have to accept, Silas, that there are a few for whom it is simply impossible to see any good at all in a politician on the other side of the aisle.

  • http://www.assemblagist.org Val MacEwan

    This is a truly well-written essay. Nice job, Silas. Apparently you know how to write creative non-fiction. It’s just a shame that many people don’t know how to “read” it. Keep writing – I look forward to more.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    The two of you!

    He, at a minimum, let a woman die to protect his own worthless ass and got away with it because his last name is Kennedy!

    Get this! I don’t listen to Rush, never have and have no intentions of EVER listening to him.

    But it is so special when you assholes throw around those hitler references…the way it upsets you when your savior is compared to him, doesn’t it?

    Who gives a rats ass what anyone in congress says about him, they’re all a bunch of ass kissers!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    The Kennedys always have and always will put themselves first. However it looks like with Senator Swimmer on the way out their dynasty truly has come to an end.

    Remind me, aren’t there at least two other Kennedys on capitol hill right now? Ooh, and one’s GAY, Archie…be afraid.

    Dave

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    If ever there were a time for GENUINE Conservatives to stand up and take charge it is now. Those of you who claim to be Democrat or liberal are strongly urged to read about Barry Goldwater. The man that Conservatives proclaim as their founder have veered so far off Goldwater’s course, it’s not funny. Come to think of it, it’s like Christianity. The Christian right has driven so far off Christ’s course that the core message is all but lost.

    I never said Teddy was a Saint. He is not. Am I concerned about what happened that fateful day in Barnstable — of course! He is accountable for his actions and I remind you that his day of reckoning is imminent. It’s not for me to cast judgment. I’ve done plenty in my life which I regret. Many people have been hurt along the way. I’ve had to take personal stock and account for what I’ve done. Out of all the chaos of my youth springs a man who is focused, blissfully happy and determined to make a positive impact in my community before I arrive at the Pearly Gates for my review. As I have said to my better half many times over the last three years I want my epitaph to read “All he asked for was a level playing field for all people.” I don’t think that’s too much to ask or expect. We’ve become so polarized by dogma vs. secularism that we’ve forgotten what’s most important. Each of us are here for a short period of time, a blink of the Divine’s eye. With that limited time we should be working to insure a world that is better than that which we inherited.

  • http://nitpickingnightdragon.blogspot.com Mark Edward Manning

    I’m a child of Massachusetts too, and I think Ted’s been an embarassment. No wonder the rest of the nation laughs at us “Massholes.”

    The fact that he paid no price for killing Mary Jo Kopechne at Chappaquiddick really infuriates me … but then, as a Kennedy, who’d have expected him to?

  • Baronius

    It’s tough to eulogize someone you don’t respect, especially as it looks like his last political act will be to subvert a state law to protect a Senate seat, a law that was a itself a subversion of the democratic process to protect the *other* Senate seat.

    I recall the ritual for the burial of a Hapsburg emperor. When the body arrives at the tomb, the pall bearer has the following exchange with the archbishop (who is inside the burial chamber).

    “Open!”
    “Who goes there?”
    “We bear the body of The Most Excellent Majesty X of the House of Hapbsurg, Ruler of (etc., listing all titles).”
    “We know him not.”

    “Open!”
    “Who goes there?”
    “We bear the body of The Emperor X of the House of Hapsburg.”
    “We know him not.”

    “Open!”
    “Who goes there?”
    “We bear the body of our brother X, a sinner like us all.”

    At that the tomb is opened.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Mark, I’m not diminishing his role in Chappaquiddick — it was a grievous lack of judgment and irresponsible; however, I would hope that we can rise above what happened and look at the totality of his impact in American politics. We are a society that thrives on hyperbole, the misfortune of others; and while the politicians say we’re a forgiving society, I just don’t see it. We don’t celebrate accomplishment any longer. It’s no wonder that American ingenuity is all but dead. Massachusetts has its faults, especially when it comes to intrusive taxation and back room political deal making. All in all life in Massachusetts isn’t all THAT bad.

  • Arch Conservative

    A little comparison and contrast.

    Mark Sanford had an affair and the left chastised him non-stop. No compassion or any of the other things Silas and Jordan talked about was offered by liberals.

    Ted Kennedy kills a woman with his car and he’s a celebrated hero in leftist circles and I am supposed to feel sorry for him and withhold all criticism because he’s got cancer.

    Silas itimates “I never said Teddy was a Saint.” How magnanimous………

    Not only was he a saint but he was actually a pretty horrible person, at least for one day in 1969.

    We’ve all done shit we regret Silas but most of it doesn’t even come close to being as horrible as driving drunk into a river with a woman in your car, leaving her to drown, without calling for help and but rather going home to sleep it off and consult with your political handlers before doing anything.

    Sean Penn once said it was karma that Reagan got alzheimer’s. I think a better example of Karma is Teddy getting brain cancer and losing his seat to a non Kennedy forever all at once. oH and going to hell. That’s karma.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Silas,

    What more proof do you need that we ceased as a nation? Personal animosity, hatred, constant bickering surely take precedence over the kind of qualities which once defined us as Americans. And the funny thing is, we’re not even arguing here about a hotly debated political issue – such as healthcare – but speaking of a person who’s about to depart. Where is the charity and forgiveness and sense of humanity? Is Ted Kennedy, for all his faults, such an epitome of evil to deserve being the target of this hatred?

    Let them who is without sin cast the first stone. Well, they’re have.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    That may be so, Archie, but that’s no reason to rejoice.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Bull puckey. Most of us just rolled our eyes and laughed at Mark Sanford, and that includes left, right and center.

    The Kopechne accident cost Kennedy his presidential ambitions, and it took a couple of decades of being a hardworking senator to redeem himself. He’s respected by Republicans as a master legislator and a worthy ideological counterpoint.

    And if there’s anyone on earth who should be cautious about invoking karmic retribution, Arch… Posting massive numbers of vicious, venomous Internet comments may just possibly qualify.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    When I read Arch’s posts I read them as if Archie Bunker were dictating. So read the following excerpt as if it were Archie:

    Sean Penn once said it was karma that Reagan got alzheimer’s. I think a better example of Karma is Teddy getting brain cancer and losing his seat to a non Kennedy forever all at once. oH and going to hell. That’s karma.

    Now this one, which I absolutely love:

    Mark Sanford had an affair and the left chastised him non-stop. No compassion or any of the other things Silas and Jordan talked about was offered by liberals.

    My momma taught me never to take Archie Bunker’s seriously.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But even Archie had redeeming graces on occasions, when it really mattered. Much of what he would say was a lot of hot air. That’s why the show was fun, because Archie was human.

  • Arch Conservative

    The Kopechne accident cost Kennedy his presidential ambitions, and it took a couple of decades of being a hardworking senator to redeem himself.

    Oh he redeemed himself did he? How did he do that? By supporting uniosn and the welfare state for forty years?

    The fact is that if his last name hadn’t been Kennedy his only chance for redemption would have been in the state pen letting bubba cornhole him when he dropped the soap.

    He killed a woman and there’s no accomplishment or deed that you moonbat Chappaquidick apologists can point to him that would lead any reasonably minded person to believe he’s been redeemed.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    how would you know what a reasonably minded person would believe, AC?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Karma: it’s a bitch, Arch.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Well, in watching this week’s episode of True Blood (my secret addiction), one of the main characters uttered a line so profound and so true. When I heard it, ultra-right conservatives immediately came to mind.

    So, on Lafayette’s front porch Sookie Stackhouse and her vampire boyfriend Bill Compton discuss what’s just happened inside. Sookie is distraught after exorcising her best friend with Bill’s help.

    Sookie: I’ve known Tara my whole life. And every trace of her was gone. Replaced. And here I thought vampires were the only ones who could hypnotize people.

    Bill Compton: No offense, Sookie, but humans are shockingly susceptible to just about every form of thought manipulation.

    Indeed we are.

  • zingzing

    archie: “He killed a woman and there’s no accomplishment or deed that you moonbat Chappaquidick apologists can point to him that would lead any reasonably minded person to believe he’s been redeemed.”

    where’s your harsh words for laura bush? or for anyone else that has been responsible for the death of another in an accident? why do you harp on this accident 100x more than you do any other? oh yeah, because you are basing your opinion on his politics. glad to know how you judge things, archie, and i hope that others don’t judge you the same way. [personal attack deleted]

    those who cheer at another person’s death (and this isn’t the first time you’ve done this,) will hear similar cheers at theirs. hope you’re ready for it. in all seriousness, to be glad for another’s death is just sick.

  • http://nitpickingnightdragon.blogspot.com Mark Edward Manning

    Silas, I’ll agree whole-heartedly with you that life in Massachusetts isn’t all bad. I’ve always took some measure of pride in the fact that my native city, Boston, isn’t quite as loony Left as San Francisco.

  • http://nitpickingnightdragon.blogspot.com Mark Edward Manning

    I agree with zingzing that wishing anyone death — other than bin Laden, of course — is sick. Just to clarify, I never said or even intimated that sort of thing myself. I personally don’t care if Teddy Boy surprises us all and lives for another 20 years or so …

    If I admire anything about Ted Kennedy, it’s that he continued to fight for what he took seriously (even if the rest of the nation didn’t), despite being in far-from-perfect physical condition. But he still went to work and fought for the mandate that Bay Staters gave him … I do understand your raison d’etre in writing this piece, Silas; only I wouldn’t go so far as to thank him. I can just about give him credit where it’s due and that’s it.

  • http://nitpickingnightdragon.blogspot.com Mark Edward Manning

    Roger: “That’s why the show was fun, because Archie was human.”

    Absolutely. Archie Bunker was not a terrible man, just fallible. He talked like a bigot, but deep, deep down in his conscience, I don’t think he really was. I think he loved his fellow New Yorkers regardless of who they were, just in a cynical, sarcastic manner because that’s the only way he could express it. And, let’s not forget, he also simply enjoyed winding his son-in-law up.

  • Arch Conservative

    Laura Bush wasn’t drunk zing. She didn’t leave the scene of an accident leaving her passenger to die.

    I know everything reverts back to Bush bashing with you moonbats but it’s a little different.

    And I wasn’t cheering Kennedy’s death just the Kennedy clans political demise. PAtrick Kennedy in RI is a joke that no one takes seriously. It ends with Senator Swimmer.

    Oh and Anna Paquin is one choice piece of ass.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Well, Arch, we do agree on something. Patrick Kennedy is a joke. In my mind he is a carpet bagger who uses Rhode Island’s Democrat base to his advantage. He never would have been elected by a Massachusetts constituent district and in Little Rhody they still burn votive candles in front of portraits of JFK.

    Insofar as your lament of Bush bashing — get over it. The patron saint of the Ultra Right, George W. Bush, deserves every bit of bashing he receives. He was so obsessed with being “Daddy’s little boy” that he stopped at nothing in his quest to move in to the White House. “W” was more interested in stopping Jeb from being President. He took his sibling rivalry to a new level and in the end the United States paid the price and in doing so he’s ruined the entire Bush family legacy.

  • zingzing

    archie: “Laura Bush wasn’t drunk zing. She didn’t leave the scene of an accident leaving her passenger to die.”

    there’s also theories that it wasn’t an accident at all, but i’m not one to pass judgment when i don’t know the full story. and i never will know the full story. just as you’ll never know the full story about kennedy’s crash.

    “I know everything reverts back to Bush bashing with you moonbats but it’s a little different.”

    i love bashing bush. uh. of course, you failed to answer the question about why you choose to harp on kennedy’s crash so much, at the expense of EVERY OTHER CRASH IN HISTORY.

    “And I wasn’t cheering Kennedy’s death just the Kennedy clans political demise.”

    my ass.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Can’t we leave Laura Bush out of the equation? It amazes me that the far right would invoke Laura Bush as the “liberal’s focus”. I have yet to see anyone on the Left criticize Mrs. Bush. She didn’t get elected to office. She has no place at the debate. Let’s judge our ELECTED officials, not their spouses or kids. I know it will be difficult, especially for you FOX aficionados. And so it goes…

  • zingzing

    “Can’t we leave Laura Bush out of the equation?”

    it’s just something equally ridiculous.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Actually, Silas, although your point is a good one, it was zing who brought up Laura Bush.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    So noted, Doc. In the meantime, FOX News has begun a campaign to incite voters to call on Ted Kennedy to resign because of his condition. His absence is a loss. As a matter of fact John McCain yesterday said Kennedy’s presence would make a “huge, huge difference” in whether legislation gets passed. FOX News is getting a bit out of hand and one wonders whether they are violating any federal election laws. While MSNBC might as well be the DNC Cable Channel, FOX News has become the Far Right, Ultra Christian, Bigoted Bastards Coalition channel.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I thinks it’s abhorrent. Pox on Fox.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    The hate and hype being spewed by FOX is fueling the fires of a dying minority. There has to come a time where public outrage over irresponsible journalism commands the attention of our legislators. I am all for a FREE press. And to maintain a free press certain rules have to be in place where there is a level playing field for all being reported. FOX reaches out to fringes with money, passion and, frankly, values which are contrary to the fabric of this nation. If another drop of innocent blood is shed within our borders because of some misguided “reporting” by FOX, then FOX must be held accountable to the same standards they have imposed on the Obama Administration. Fair and balanced? Not until FOX comes out of the hen house and faces the music.

  • zingzing

    silas: “The hate and hype being spewed by FOX is fueling the fires of a dying minority.”

    good. it’s just burning them up. the further fox goes, the more people they’ll turn off. (actually, i have a theory that a certain, not insignificant, portion of their audience is people watching it out of irony. or disgust. or pity. like hipsters at a joe satriani concert.)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, Silas, Zing! How different is it, really, from the kind of irrationality and hatred that have of recent become the characteristic of the BC pages? Even on the part of those who only a while back were more or less sane.

    We are witnessing a kind of self-destruct. And so I say, let them.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Roger’s goal is to fiddle while Rome burns.

    Dave

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    I kindda like the notion of Roger crowned with a laurel wreath and wearing a toga.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Thanks, guys, for the imagery. I’ll sleep on it.

  • zingzing

    “Roger’s goal is to fiddle while Rome burns.”

    only the right side of rome.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    My desire, zing, is to save those who can be saved – a Jesus Christ complex. And that includes Dave.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    What am I saying? That’s Ruvy’s job!

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Does Ruvy even like Jesus?

  • zingzing

    ruvy doesn’t even exist.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    And God said, Ruvy exists, therefore I AM.

    Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

    -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    That, Silas, is the proof of the existence of God by fiat.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Oh great, now Fiat is gonna buy God. Probably with Vatican money.

    Thank God for Joseph Smith and LDS, without them we cannot be saved.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Senator Edward Moore Kennedy died about three hours ago. I am so glad I wrote this piece before he passed.

  • Clavos

    The hate and hype being spewed by FOX is fueling the fires of a dying minority.

    Their Nielsens would seem to refute that.

  • zingzing

    “Their Nielsens would seem to refute that.”

    hicks watch A LOT of tv…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I am so glad I wrote this piece before he passed.

    From my point of view, this piece would have been better as an obituary. Others, who do not agree with you, are pouring the pitch on the dead man as he is being prepared for burial.

    As much as I agree with the author, I think he ought to have waited a week – not out of respect for a great man – Ted Kennedy was a mediocre man left as the mascot of a murdered dream – but out of respect for his family.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    With Kennedy gone now I can say a few nice things, I suppose. I met him a number of times and he always seemed like a nice guy and I do think he was one of the few honest politicians around. I didn’t agree with him on much, but his positions did seem to generally be based on principle (misguided) rather than outside influences.

    One thing I do have to mention is that one of the things which struck me whenever I saw him in person was how incredibly puffy his head always looked. Seriously, like a giant marshmellow. I noticed this about Nixon too. I think it was a side-effect of exhaustion and/or drinking, and it has to have been a sign of serious circulatory problems. I’m surprised he lived as long as he did. A tribute to the fine Senatorial health plan.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    My desire, zing, is to save those who can be saved – a Jesus Christ complex. And that includes Dave.

    Thankfully atheism grants me immunity to such things.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    hicks watch A LOT of tv…

    Yes they do.

    And because of the total absence of an adequate educational system (natural enough, since most schools are run by the government), hicks (of all races) are the fastest growing population cohort in the country, which would explain the fact that FOX NEWS is at the top of the Nielsens.

    For about 50 years now, the USA’s been raising a nation of morons.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Wow Clav, I don’t know what to say to that…I just turned 50 a few weeks back!

    Luckily, I went to catholic school!

  • Clavos

    I did too, Andy.

    And some private schools as well, while I lived in Mexico.

    I never spent a day in a government school until college.

    Neither did either of my siblings. My sister even went to a Catholic college, Saint Mary’s College, Notre Dame.

    And none of us are Catholic anymore.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Tip of the hat to Teddy. I wonder if now that he’s gone, there’s a single person left in the Senate who could truly be called a statesman.

    i have a theory that a certain, not insignificant, portion of their audience is people watching it out of irony. or disgust. or pity.

    I only come into contact with Fox News under duress, because the owner of my gym insists on ramming it down his punters’ throats.

    Other than that, I would recommend a self-appointed watchdog website called Newshounds (tagline: “We watch Fox so you don’t have to”) which provides a consistently withering counterpoint to Hannibal, O’Really, Mr Weepie et al, not to mention being just as entertaining as the Foxies think they are.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Well, Dave, I’m proud of you and always knew that you are a conciliatory man who looks to forge compromise rather than hide behind an iron curtain of ideology.

    In all the media coverage the one thing that stands out is how Ted Kennedy had a keen sense in the art of compromise. While Conservatives used him as their poster boy he never retreated and reached across the aisle to get the job done. It’s disappointing that the media in their coverage is doing a great job of pointing out just what kind of force he was in the Senate chamber. Not for anything, Dave, but these are the things we should have known while he was alive. We have no clear understanding of the legislative process much less which Senators are the key players in forging compromise. While the Lion’s roar is silent, Ted Kennedy’s death will culminate in even more divisiveness in Congress. His life’s mission — health care for all — died with him unless Democrats invoke his memory and start acting like a majority party.

    My maternal grandmother was a decidedly Irish Catholic woman who celebrated life much the same way as the Kennedys. You know how those Irish are — Lord knows my Polish grandmother was mortified. But that being said, I remembered the morning we buried my grandmother back in 1990. Before we closed the coffin, I slipped a hand written Gaelic blessing in her hands. So, for my beloved grandma Kate, this one’s for Teddy:

    May the road rise up to meet you.
    May the wind be always at your back.
    May the sun shine warm upon your face;
    The rains fall soft upon your fields, and until we meet again,
    may God hold you in the palm of His hand.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    I only come into contact with Fox News under duress, because the owner of my gym insists on ramming it down his punters’ throats.

    I know the feeling. I frequented a certain donut store (America ‘runs’ on it) and got FOX rammed down my throat every time I went there. Last week I had enough. I got hold of the general manager and informed him that I would no longer be trading at that store thanks to FOX. He didn’t seem too concerned until I pointed out that the Mom & Pop donut shop across the street was getting a new banner for their window thanks to me – FOX free TV. Enough said.

  • Clavos

    i have a theory that a certain, not insignificant, portion of their audience is people watching it out of irony. or disgust. or pity.

    Some of us (unintelligent and not erudite, to be sure) folks actually watch it because we like it and agree with much of what we hear on it.

    Disgusting, I know, but I’m unrepentant.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Statement #1:

    “. . . since most schools are run by the government), hicks (of all races) are the fastest growing population cohort in the country, which would explain the fact that FOX NEWS is at the top of the Nielsens.

    “For about 50 years now, the USA’s been raising a nation of morons.”

    Statement #2:

    “Some of us (unintelligent and not erudite, to be sure) folks actually watch it because we like it and agree with much of what we hear on it.”

    So which is it now, Clavie baby, #1 or #2?
    Are you bragging or complaining?

  • Baronius

    Is playing up the failures of the complainers so much nobler than playing up the failures of Kennedy? Both are using a man’s death to score political points. This is a great opportunity for all of us to show class.

  • Clavos

    Bragging, obviously (in both cases).

    I revel in being considered moronic by libs; it confirms I’m on the right track (pun intended).

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, I’ll take it under advisement, Clavos, but allow me to reserve my own opinion in this matter.

    Sensible advice, Baronius. Let history judge him.

  • History

    Well, OK.

    GUILTY

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Great commentary by Bill Frist on Ted Kennedy this afternoon. I’m no fan of Frist but he’s a good example of Baronius’ call for a little bit of class. Looks like #82 is one that needs some lessons.

  • Dan

    I’m not glad the guy is dead, but I’m not glad he lived either.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    No one cares, Dan.

  • zingzing

    dan: “I’m not glad the guy is dead, but I’m not glad he lived either.”

    guessing by the above, it’s a distinct possibility that someone may say the same about you.

    that statement also obviously comes from ignorance, beyond its callousness.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But then again, it’s also inconsistent from the standpoint of any right-to-lifer.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    It is my fervent hope that the Massachusetts legislature gives the Governor the power to appoint an interim Senator. While reports are that Victoria Reggie Kennedy would not take the job, I wonder if she would consider it in light of this bitter health care battle. There is no more qualified person in the Commonwealth to pick up Ted Kennedy’s banner than his widow. She could serve just until a successor is elected.

    I’ve seen many a post across the internet with hateful, callous commentary. So be it. He forged dialogue and compromise. If his detractors are too small minded to see that, then I urge they all volunteer for military service and head out to Afghanistan.

  • Dan

    El Bicho, I don’t care that you don’t care.

    zingzing, someone might also say the same about you. So? You also don’t know where the statement “comes” from. That’s ignorance.

    roger, Not so. Kennedy had his chance. Some people enrich humanity by coming, others by going.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You can’t prejudge life, Dan. So if you’re against abortions (and I’m not saying you are because I don’t know), it’s somewhat contradictory to say the fetus should never come to be; it’s like trying to outguess God and His infinite wisdom.

    So in essence, your comment is charged with emotivism, there being no other content.

  • Dan

    Perhaps it’s your “emotivism” that finds “the fetus should never come to be” in “I’m not glad he lived”

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I am rather neutral about assessing the value or lack thereof when it comes to human life. It’s not up to me to make that kind of judgment.

  • Dan

    “Human life” is vague terminology roger. Put down the shovel. It’s not unproper to make value judgements on how one lives a life.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Dan quickly brings any discussion down to his own level: growly low blows. If there is an empathetic cell in his body, he keeps it well hidden.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, Dan, you may be right in human terms. But then again, why are there so many disagreements about Kennedy et al. Again, I’d say it never is a clear cut case when it comes to determining the value of human life. I’m not therefore competent to judge in the ultimate sense (lest I, perhaps, be judged), to say nothing of the fact that my judgment is fallible. That’s why I leave such matters to “higher powers.”

  • Dan

    See, Handyguy has made a value judgement with his unsolicited snipe.

    I think I know why he does it, but I’m taking the high road.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Kennedy had his chance. Some people enrich humanity by coming, others by going.

    He had and he did. You have and you can’t, it’s a form of impotence. So, go along now.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “I’m taking the high road.”

    Too late

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos/ Christine

    Hey there Silas, just watched “The Kennedy Brothers” documentary on Chris Mathews…very emotional, especially today. All the Kennedy’s will be remember and admired for many generations, no matter your political persuasion.

  • Arch Conservative

    In the past twenty four hours I’ve seen much more civility coming from the right regarding Senator Kennedy’s passing than was displayed by the left when people like Reagan and Falwell passed.

    Also it looks like the Democrats in Congress and King Barry aren’t going to let Kennedy’s death go unexploited as now their rallying cry for socilialized medicine is “let’s do it for Teddy.”

    Yeah…that’ll work.

  • Dan

    I’m sure Silas can elaborate abundantly on impotence, but integrity and moral virtue…probably not so much.

    It’s fitting from the way he lived his life that Ted spent his last days attempting to rig the legislative process to get a partisan result. It’s sad when zealotry overcomes honor.

    I don’t think I would want his final reward.

  • Clavos

    I don’t think I would want his final reward.

    His, like yours, as well as that of all before and all after, will be to putrefy.

    Nothing more.

  • Baronius

    Just as long as a Wellstone rally doesn’t break out, we should all be able to get through a week of memorial with some dignity. If the President handles this like a statesman, it could go a long way toward improving the national discourse.

  • zingzing

    dan: “zingzing, someone might also say the same about you. So? You also don’t know where the statement “comes” from. That’s ignorance.”

    anyone around here can pretty much tell where your statement comes from. i’d be pretty hard-pressed to say the things you’ve said here about anyone given the circumstances (and especially when this thread started as a sort of eulogy). it’s just crass.

    dan: “I don’t think I would want his final reward.”

    so now you’re judging his place in the afterlife. thanks, god! hope you’re having a pleasant day. you know, there’s this guy named dan who wants your job. yeah, i know, i know, everyone would like your job… it would make the day pretty easy, wouldn’t it? so… you thinking about quitting? no, no, look i was just asking, you know… for dan? yeah, that dan. he’s about yea tall, and kinda, you know… yeah! yeah! that’s the one. look out for him, will you?

  • zingzing

    archie: “In the past twenty four hours I’ve seen much more civility coming from the right regarding Senator Kennedy’s passing than was displayed by the left when people like Reagan and Falwell passed.”

    luckily, you’re not one of those displaying any civility. that would be TOO much. and reagan got plenty of “civility.” falwell, however, was a hateful prick, but i wouldn’t have said that at the time. i just remained respectfully silent.

  • zingzing

    dan: “I’m sure Silas can elaborate abundantly on impotence, but integrity and moral virtue…probably not so much.”

    my god. and you could probably go on about BIG DICKS, right? and your version of “integrity and moral virtue” is pretty different from society’s normal view of it, in light of your comments here.

  • http://nitpickingnightdragon.blogspot.com Mark Edward Manning

    Dave N.:“Thankfully atheism grants me immunity to such things.”

    Athiesm, Dave? Isn’t that supreme lack of faith reserved for liberals?

  • Arch Conservative

    Exactly how have I been uncivil since Kennedy’s death zingaling?

    My last post was my one and only since he died and I didn’t say anything negative about him in it genius.

  • Jordan Richardson

    It’s sad when zealotry overcomes honor.

    Are you being ironic on purpose, Dan?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos/ Christine

    I think one of the reasons Ted Kennedy is getting so much respect from the right is because he was one of the few Democratic politicians that truly cared about the “downtrodden” and was willing to be a “bridge between the parties” to get something done for them!

  • zingzing

    archie: “Exactly how have I been uncivil since Kennedy’s death zingaling?”

    ahh, well, you taunted him as he went down, which wasn’t exactly the nicest thing to do. but, if you want to be technical about it, and if you hadn’t said anything since his death, then i applaud your restraint, genius, and i humbly apologize.

    zingaling, pulling out of archie’s bunker.

  • zingzing

    mem: “Athiesm, Dave? Isn’t that supreme lack of faith reserved for liberals?”

    remember, mark, that dave considers himself a liberal as well. not that anyone else does. but here comes the “classical” vs “modern” definition of “liberal” speech. not to say that dave doesn’t have his liberal leanings. at least socially.

    but i wonder how one “lack of faith” can be considered “supreme” while another cannot. zero is beyond low and high, if considered only against zero.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I won’t comment on Kennedy right now – I have more class than that. But I remember when Wellstone died and the Minnesota DFL turned his funeral into a campaign rally. It was disgusting and pathetic.

    I had been losing my respct for them for quite some time (I was a DFL activist in Minnesota) and that cut it. So far as I am concerned, they are now just trash attempting to be limousine liberals.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Being in the heart of the mourning in the Bay State this day I’ve reached a few conclusions. If you could see the number of children, teenagers, parents and grandparents who openly weep at Teddy’s loss perhaps you could understand. Arch, in particular, brings up a very good point:

    In the past twenty four hours I’ve seen much more civility coming from the right regarding Senator Kennedy’s passing than was displayed by the left when people like Reagan and Falwell passed.

    Arch is right. But I think we need to delve a little deeper into the vitriol that is coming from the farthest right. In talking to a couple of people, they brought out a good point. Most conservatives, especially in Washington, knew Ted Kennedy’s character. His word was his bond even if it meant going against his core beliefs. That’s the art of compromise. A Black friend of mine pointed out that those on the extreme right will never have anything good to say about Ted Kennedy. Their hatred of him is not based in ideology but something much simpler — racism. Kennedy was a champion of equal rights for all. He was the spokesman for the downtrodden and most disadvantaged. He would have fought to the death for securing rights for even the poorest white trash back water uneducated racist pigs alive. Therein lies the difference. He didn’t care what one’s ideology was — he cared about a level playing field.

    Dan: It’s fitting from the way he lived his life that Ted spent his last days attempting to rig the legislative process to get a partisan result. It’s sad when zealotry overcomes honor.

    The Far Right is the definition of zealotry trumping honor. What’s even more sad is the fact that those of your ilk, Dan, are too close-minded to recognize the accomplishments of Ted Kennedy, the individual. This is a profound loss for you because you will never experience the satisfaction of understanding the concept that one person indeed CAN make a difference.

    Dan:I’m sure Silas can elaborate abundantly on impotence, but integrity and moral virtue…probably not so much.

    Cute, Dan. Just another obvious indication of a person who is deep in his own closet. When it comes to integrity – Ted Kennedy is the poster child. The only time I think I would ever suffer from impotence would be if I were in your presence. You’d cause the blood to rush from my loins to my brain in my efforts to escape from your fascist ideology. I guess, in a sense, you are society’s anti-Viagra.

    I won’t comment on Kennedy right now – I have more class than that. But I remember when Wellstone died and the Minnesota DFL turned his funeral into a campaign rally. It was disgusting and pathetic.

    Yes, Ruvy, there are times when you exhibit a great deal of class and this is one of them. I also agree that the Wellstone funeral was over the top and a mockery of his life. That will not happen in this case. Ted Kennedy was more than a liberal or a Democrat. He was an American and keenly aware of the gift he had. Born into a privileged life he could have lived his life at the mountaintop looking over the valley of the downtrodden. But he didn’t. He went above and beyond the call of duty.

    I don’t know how much time I have remaining on the Earth. But I do know that for the years I have been here, a member of the Kennedy family has had a direct impact on it. And it is in that spirit I make my own pilgrimage down to Dorchester this summer day, pay my respects and say a silent prayer that he rests in peace having fought the good fight.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    As Massachusetts makes its final goodbye to Teddy, the whispering behind the scenes had already begun. Those of us in Massachusetts have a huge decision to make. That being said, I’ve made my decision. I’m joining the Draft Secretary of State William Galvin movement. Bill Galvin is a great public servant who would serve us well in the Senate.

  • Baronius

    “He was the spokesman for the downtrodden and most disadvantaged.”

    Not all of them, Silas, just those who’ve been born. If Kennedy had taken a stand for all human life, the Democratic Party and the nation would be very different. He was the right man at the right place and time to preserve the honorable liberal tradition of fighting for all the helpless.

  • Baronius

    Oh, and your black friend doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    #116:

    You mean his pro-abortion stance is a black mark?

  • Dan

    “His, like yours, as well as that of all before and all after, will be to putrefy.”—Clavos

    Gee, that doesn’t sound good. But I guess staving off putreficaction is yet another good reason to oppose Federal death panels.

    “anyone around here can pretty much tell where your statement comes from. i’d be pretty hard-pressed to say the things you’ve said here about anyone given the circumstances (and especially when this thread started as a sort of eulogy). it’s just crass.”—zingzing

    The statement “I’m not glad the guy is dead, but I’m not glad he lived either.” comes from comment #5 by BlogCritics founder Eric Olsen in a Eulogy (of sorts), written by intermittently suicidal gay rights champion Natalie Davis upon the death of Strom Thurmond. The “piece” was reverently titled “Another One Bites the Dust”

    See zing, I was havin’ fun all along! You were the ignorant one after all.

    Actually this was one of several “eulogies” written at the time, and the quote, matching my sentiments for Ted, seemed mild in contrast to the stark, vile hatred spewed by yesterdays lefties. (although Natalie did the best she could considering her zeal)

    You can make of my deceptive venture into irony what you will, but I’ll have none of your presumptuous lecture on class, crass, and ignorance.

    I’m holding back, like all decent people. I’m sure the “hateful prick” Falwell will put in a good word on your behalf for your restraint as well.

    “He would have fought to the death for securing rights for even the poorest white trash back water uneducated racist pigs alive.”—Silas

    Compassion aplenty! I can almost hear him saying these very words. Which speech was it?

    ” The only time I think I would ever suffer from impotence would be if I were in your presence.”—Silas

    um…works for me.

    I kind of miss the BC lefties of old. But if the new brigades fragile psyche requires strict adherence to gushing about Ted lest they absurdly pretend hyper moral superiority I’ll say this: He was good at what he did.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I kind of figured, Dan, something was odd. The comment in question, regardless where you stand politically, was totally unlike you.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    For the conservatives this is a watershed moment. I spoke of this in a comment I posted under an article about the Obama vacation.

    Inagine it. Ted Kennedy will be buried from a church in Mission Hill which is in Roxbury, the heart of racial divide in Boston. The four former Presidents will be there, in a Roman Catholic Church in Boston. They’ll all listen as an African American President delivers the eulogy. In a sense this eulogy could be the most pivotal moment in the first year of Barack Obama’s Administration. And there he will be, the whitest man in America — George W. Bush. The stage is set. The profundity in place. The only thing that could complete the scenario would be if W’s head explodes like a character in Mars Attacks.

  • Arch Conservative

    There will be time to to debate the man and his career in the Senate in the months and year’s to come but right now, while the body is not yet cold, is not the time.

    On another note though it is awfully hypocritical of the Democrats in MA to say that the governor should not be able to make congressional appointment when Mitt Romney is in office but then chaneg their minds a mere four years later when it’s a dem on Beacon Hill. Don’t you think so Silas? But then 90% of what goes on in MA doesn’t make sense.

  • Clavos

    Careful that in your ecstasy yours doesn’t, Silas.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Well, Arch, there is a point. Teddy Kennedy was one of those who pushed for that legislation preventing Mitt Romney from naming a successor. There’s a level of hypocrisy here, no doubt about it. I do support changing the law — on ONE condition. I would like to see Victoria Kennedy appointed to her husband’s seat, if she is willing. I would like to see her carry on her husband’s work while the state decides who should succeed him. If that cannot be worked out, then we will have to wait until January to elect a successor.

    While it may be disrespectful to even think of a successor before he is in the ground, I think we need to be realistic. There is a lot at stake in the Senate. Robert Byrd could be the next Senator to pass on within the next few weeks. Life goes on. There are already rumors in the MA GOP that Mitt Romney will declare. If that is the case, I’ll work my tail off for the opposition. Right now I see only one viable Democratic candidate and that’s William Galvin.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Come on, Clav. Don’t you think there’s a lot of irony here? I mean the Kennedys have been at the heart of the Civil Rights movement. It’s all come full circle now.

  • Clavos

    How is it ironic? Isn’t it more of a culmination, even a fitting tribute, to the work of the Kennedy family in promoting civil rights?

    Where’s the “irony?”

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    OK, you’re right. It is a culmination. I guess the irony for me is seeing G.W. Bush in attendance. So, I take back the “irony” to be replaced with culmination.

    On another note, it’s interesting that Nancy Reagan’s statement was the first staement released about the Senator from a GOP personality. Just another indication of how far the GOP has devolved since the days of Reagan. It infuriates me to think that the far right has adopted Reagan as their patron saint when I hardly think that he would approve of how divisive his own party has become. Ted Kennedy and Ronald Reagan were cut from the same cloth (ducks for cover as apoplectic far righters explode), where politics was a game of opportunity and compromise. Any possibility of skillful compromise is gione with Ted Kennedy. John McCain has the ability but I think he’s fallen to far over to the right in an effort to keep his seat in next year’s elections.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    That’s incredible, Silas, that Nancy Reagan was the first to speak out. There truly are no people of consequence anymore. How sad!

  • zingzing

    dan: “But I guess staving off putreficaction is yet another good reason to oppose Federal death panels.”

    sorry, but that’s already started… you really still believe that?

    “See zing, I was havin’ fun all along! You were the ignorant one after all.”

    i have to say that context is everything, but more than that, i have to say the following:

    touche. well done, sir. i am impressed.

    “I’m holding back, like all decent people. I’m sure the “hateful prick” Falwell will put in a good word on your behalf for your restraint as well.”

    hold back too long, and you’ll never come. ha ha. falwell was what he is.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Can you come internally?

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Is that a tantric question?

  • zingzing

    “Can you come internally?”

    i’m pretty sure that would cause problems. although there are ways to have an orgasm without making a mess of things. but i’ll never say how.

    -or-

    that’s what happens every time a redneck sees a hole in the ground. (not that they can tell the difference.)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    A silent volcano? Do tell!

  • Baronius

    “On another note, it’s interesting that Nancy Reagan’s statement was the first staement released about the Senator from a GOP personality.”

    I’ve seen Romney, McCain, and GHW Bush statements, and I haven’t looked particularly hard.

    “The four former Presidents will be there…and there he will be, the whitest man in America — George W. Bush.”

    And Carter, Clinton, and GHW Bush represent all the colors of the rainbow?

  • zingzing

    “A silent volcano? Do tell!”

    as james hetfield would say, “neva-RAH!”

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Clinton used to be America’s first Black President. Carter is white, but his spirit is Southern Baptist. George H.W. Bush is white but his offspring is whiter.

    Roger asking about a silent volcano? Yikes! That laurel wreath and toga are next, I feel it!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Silas,

    You were an admirer of Ted Kennedy. A younger generation has come along with serious questions as to why he ought to have been admired. I suggest you go to his article and answer his questions.

    Negligent homicide or manslaughter are in a whole different class of peccadillo from adultery or stealing the public’s funds. It is perhaps true that the late Senator kept his word in his political dealings, and this would make him stand out – as a politician. My question is this. Ought he have even been allowed to sit in the Senate after what happened at Chappaquiddick? Others who have done far less have suffered far more at the alleged hands of “justice”.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Every nasty comment on this thread that’s come since Teddy died has come from you liberals. And all us “rednecks” have been the ones showing a little restraint.

  • zingzing

    ruvy’s “A younger generation” is pajama’s media?

    andy: “Every nasty comment on this thread that’s come since Teddy died has come from you liberals. And all us “rednecks” have been the ones showing a little restraint.”

    no one was calling you a redneck, redneck, andy. but you need to go back and read the comments.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Ought he have even been allowed to sit in the Senate after what happened at Chappaquiddick? Others who have done far less have suffered far more at the alleged hands of “justice”.

    Points are taken and are worthy of debate. If there is any lesson to be learned from Ted Kennedy it is that peope do change and redemtption can be accomplished. Edward Moore Kennedy is lving proof that a man can fall hard and rise from the ashes. The manner in which he lived his life after that tragic 1969 Summer day is a testament to the most basic of Christian teaching, another thing that most right wingers refuse to recognize.

    In the meantime I can understand now more so than ever why people 2000 years ago were looking for an alternative to Judaism which resulted in the Jewish sect known as Christianity. Hell fire, brimstone, intolerance and retribution are the tenets of Judaism and your commentary indicates that these tenets are alive and well. Christians fell into the same guilt imposing trap faced by Jews. Not much different from Islam after all, is it?

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Ruvy, I went over and read the article and then spent a little time navigating through that bigoted, close-minded archaic site. This young man is a classic example of the thought manipulation imposed by any religion born out of Abraham usually results in NOTHING positive. Too much blood has been spilled in defence of religion. His treatise leaves no room for lessons in redemption or for giving credit to Kennedy for his public service. Instead, the writer wants to spend his time sitting on the Throne of Judgment as if he (the writer) had license to cast his judgment because he’s a Christian. HOGWASH!

    Leaving politics out of it — Ted Kennedy’s life is very much an exercise in redemption. And, like it or not, he may not have agreed with all of the dogma shoved down his throat. But he lived his life, loyal to his country and his church. He believed in the power of prayer. He believed in the redemption of Christian teaching. He wasn’t perfect, but who among us are? He walked the walk a hell of a lot more than those on the far right. As I look back through history it’s becomeing increasingly clear that Abraham’s legacy is less about God and more about retribution, war and hatred.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Silas,

    I’ve left politics out of this. Just as you have. For many years I admired many positions that the late Senator took – years that you were a Reagan (or Goldwater) Republican when you may not have necessarily had the same admiration. And all of us are entitled to a chance to redeem ourselves, to a second chance when we do something wrong. And in many respects, Senator Kennedy’s life was an attempt at redemption. We agree firmly on these two points. After all, Silas, I lived on the streets for a year after failing law school and fucking up a marriage. So, far be it from me to say that a man does not deserve a second chance in life.

    That is not my question at all. Read it again. Ought he have been allowed to sit in the Senate after what happened at Chappaquiddick? Others who have done far less have suffered far more at the alleged hands of “justice”.

    The late Senator could have attempted the redemption you talk of without his Senate seat. His second chance was the privilege of not sitting in jail for negligent homicide or manslaughter, Silas.

    But did he deserve the trust of the people of Massachusetts in 1969? That is a whole different question, a question of a different magnitude.

    Kennedy was a coward in two respects, Silas. First of all, he covered up what he did or didn’t do regarding the young woman who died. And second of all, having done that, he did not resign his seat in the Senate.

    Think on it, Silas.

    And now, Sabbath and its preparations are upon me, so I’ll see you on the other side of the weekend.

    Shabbat Shalom

  • Baronius

    “Clinton used to be America’s first Black President.”

    That was patronizing back then. Now it’s also pathetic.

    “Carter is white, but his spirit is Southern Baptist.”

    Huh? I thought that southerners were the bad guys in the story, but now you’re calling them black (which seems to be synonymous with “good” in your dictionary). We got four southern Caucasians paying respect to a northern Caucasian, but W is the whitest? And the Kennedy clan in general, there’d be more ethnic diversity in a klan, and in the Kennedy clan there’s a real Austrian, not just a picture of one.

    “George H.W. Bush is white but his offspring is whiter.”

    Yeah, I guess that Asian/Pacific Islander Prescott bloodline is more diluted in W.

    Has W ever shown lack of respect to Obama, or to other blacks? Why would you picture W’s head exploding? If anything, the wise black man preaching at a funeral is a bit of a race cliche.

  • Rufus Choate

    Edward Moore Kennedy is dead. His life’s work of growing government is one of consummate failure of his world view in application to reality.

    He was wrong about Communism, Medicare, Medicaid, Illegal immigration,the welfare state, welfare reform, chain migration, Iran Contra, the Iraq War and Abortion.

    He was a man of the left who was abundantly generous with other people’s money while giving nothing to charity.

    He will be forgotten quickly like Paul Wellstone after his death is used one last time to try to drive forward Socialized Medicine. He was a loathsome evil man with very bad ideas and the world is a better place for his absence.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    HA! Paul Wellstone was no Ted Kennedy. And he gave PLENTY to charity! Do your homework. Oh, I forgot, far righters shoot first and to hell with the rest of us.

    As one who has been through the experience today, there was no vitriol present around that library overlooking the bay in Dorchester. Tonight an Irish wake. And tomorrow the most seminal moment of the Obama Presidency. Like it or not, Ted Kennedy’s death will be Ted Kennedy’s victory and not an opportunity for the far right to exercise its campaign of hate. If Barry Goldwater were here, he would be in complete agreement with me. You can take that to the bank.

  • Bob Spencer

    What a relief. For the first time in my life, there is no Kennedy in the Senate. Teddy Kennedy did more damage to this country than any other Senator in the last half of the last century.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Or more good, depending on your point of view.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    This is interesting, Silas: Paul Wellstone effect.

    You know that the libs are doing something right when the likes of Rush Limbaugh try to tell them they’re only damaging their own cause.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    What a relief. For the first time in my life, there is no Kennedy in the Senate. Teddy Kennedy did more damage to this country than any other Senator in the last half of the last century.

    The only damage Teddy did was in failing to inspire you to put some meat into your argument. If you truly believed, with a Kennedy-esque passion, that Teddy and his work was detrimental to these United States you would have been motivated to get involved. It’s easier to lurk in the shadows, throwing out unsubstantiated vitriol. As Joe Biden said, Teddy Kennedy never made anyone feel small. From what I can see, Mr. Spencer, you need a lot of Teddy Kennedy right about now.

    You know that the libs are doing something right when the likes of Rush Limbaugh try to tell them they’re only damaging their own cause.

    Indeed, Roger. I am in full support of renaming the Health Care bill in honor of Senator Kennedy. I am also in favor of his passing being a catalyst to cause Republicans AND Democrats to sit at the table and hammer out a revolution where both sides compromise for the sake of the country. Instead, uber-conservatives will cry foul. They will invoke memories of Wellstone. If they were even half the human being Ted Kennedy was, they would realize that there is no time like the present to act like Teddy. If the Republicans refuse to compromise then it is incumbent upon each and every Democrat from the Blue Dogs to the most Progressive to rise up and demand health care reform now.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You know what’s the most discouraging thing about this whole thing is – they’ll need all sixty votes in the Senate to get it passed.

    Can this issue – or any other issue in fact – be so one-sided one way or another that it can evoke only a partisan response.

    This fact alone is sufficient in my opinion to send everyone in Washington D.C packing.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Imagine, Roger, how frustrating it must be for some Senators to watch the Congress devolve into the mess that it has become. Every sitting member of Congress, including the late Senator Kennedy, should be appalled. But, then again, is not Congress by theory a reflection of our society? There are deep divisions. We’ve had them before. We’ll have them again. At every pivotal moment in our young history we have faced major decisions with vitriolic rhetoric or violent protest. Perhaps we should compromise and inject violent rhetoric, fueled by great oratory and debate. Shit. That’ll never happen. The greatest orator in Congress is being laid to rest in the setting sun tomorrow.

  • Baronius

    The way you describe it, all sides coming together in a spirit of compromise, sounds wonderful. But there’s a very cynical assumption behind it, that people have staked out their positions without any principles behind them. I know you’re not saying that everything is negotiable, but don’t you conceive of the possibility of compromise legislation that’s worse than no action at all? I mean, to sign off today on whatever backroom deal emerges next week would take a very un-Goldwateresque trust in Congress.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    You’re right, Baronius. But think about the profundity of this week. Begin in 1959 at the end of the McCarthy era. Recall the hope of JFK, the passion for justice of RFK and the fact that every major piece of legislation since 1964 has Ted Kennedy’s hand in it in one form or another. I just cannot believe that journalists or pundits have not captured the symbolic essence of these three days.

    It’s very rare for me to get back in touch with my Irish roots but the ceremony at the JFK Library tonight was so typically Irish. As I watched everyone belt out When Irish Eyes Are Smiling I thought of another song from a fairly recent movie. For those familiar with Hairspray you will know of which song I speak. There’s a scene where Motormouth Maybelle (played brilliantly by Queen Latifah) is marching with a crowd down the streets of Baltimore during that time in the 60’s the racial divide was about to break. The song is I Know Where I’ve Been. As they wheel his coffin into that church in Mission Hill in the heart of Roxbury, Latifah’s voice will replay in my mind:

    There’s a light
    In the darkness
    Though the night
    Is black as my skin
    There’s a light
    Burning bright
    Showing me the way
    But i know where i’ve been

    There’s a cry
    In the distance
    It’s a voice
    That comes from deep within
    There’s a cry
    Asking why
    I pray the answer’s up ahead
    ‘Cause i know where i’ve been

    There’s a road
    We’ve been travelin’
    Lost so many on the way
    But the riches
    Will be plenty
    Worth the price we
    Had to pay

    There’s a dream
    In the future
    There’s a struggle
    That we have yet to win
    And there’s pride
    In my heart
    ‘Cause i know
    Where i’m going
    And i know where i’ve been

    There’s a road
    We must travel
    There’s a promise
    We must make
    ‘Cause the riches
    Will be plenty
    Worth the risk
    And chances that we take
    There’s a dream
    In the future
    There’s a struggle

    We have yet to win
    Use that pride
    In our hearts
    To lift us up
    Until tomorrow

    ‘Cause just to sit still
    Would be a sin

    There’s where it’s at for me, Baronius. If there was ever a time for us as a nation to rise up it is now. It doesn’t matter what you are — conservative, progressive, liberal, gay, straight, black, white, red or yellow. The bottom line is we all have to rise to the occasion. We have to stand up and state our respective cases. And, perhaps, if each of us take the time to listen and understand the other’s point of view we can find that common ground and create something even greater than that which would have been created. It’s a matter of exchanging ideas and respecting varying points of view. Our country is running out of time. Extremism on both sides solves nothing. The problem is that extremism drives ratings and ad revenues. This is the time for a dialogue not another demagogue. And to do nothing would, indeed, be a sin.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Great post, Silas.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Thanks, Roger.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Silas, I see you never answered my question at comment #142. Had Ted Kennedy’s name been Spitzer or Conally, he would have been ridden out of Congress on a rail – and you know it, little as you might wish to admit it.

    But nobody ever had the balls to throw him out of the Senate.

  • http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com Tom Degan

    Watching George W. Bush at the funeral of Teddy Kennedy on Saturday was, to say the very least, amusing. It’s always great fun to witness the members of the vast right wing conspiracy confronted head-on with the theological flaws that are inherent in their philosophy. Watching that event with my pal, Kevin Swanwick, we both were mesmerized and just slightly overjoyed to be reminded yet again that the basic tenets of Liberalism are in perfect harmony with our Christianity – our Catholicism: feed the hungry, shelter the poor and clothe the naked. Oh, how I wish the camera would have cut to Bush’s face the moment he was confronted with the most famous line (and justly so) from the Gospel according to Matthew:

    “I tell you this: whatever you did to the least of these brothers of mine, you did to me.”

    Jesus of Nazareth

    One can only imagine how uncomfortable that passage from the scriptures must have made him feel. Or how about the Sermon on the Mount?

    “Blessed are the peace makers
    For they shall be called Sons of God.”

    I imagine being confronted with the words of Jesus Christ might make old George just a tad uneasy. The prayers that were offered up by the youngest members of the Kennedy clan, in Teddy’s own words, were the most touching part of the entire day:

    “That human beings be measured not by what they cannot do. That quality health care becomes a fundamental right and not a privilege. That old policies of race and gender die away. That newcomers be accepted, no matter their color or place of birth. That the nation stand united against violence, hate and war. That the work begins anew, and the dream lives on. We pray to the Lord.”

    Lord hear our prayer.

    After the mass had ended, and Kevin and I headed into town to get a cup of coffee, I was almost stunned by the good cheer I felt. Ted Kennedy’s funeral was truly a joyous event. Truth be told, it was damned-near therapeutic! The politics of joy as opposed to the politics of fear. There ain’t nothin’ like it in the world, Baby!

    The stark contrasts between the ideals of the Progressive movement and the right wing’s backwards and greedy ideology were out in public Saturday for all to compare and contrast at Our Lady of Perpetual Comfort Church in Boston. The differences were so obvious, you could not have missed them had you tried.

    Tom Degan
    Goshen, NY

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    It was real easy to miss those contrasts, the ones that allow liberals to forget about murder when it’s one of their own committing it.

    It’s easy for you to PRETEND you’re a catholic or a christain for that matter, all the while supporting politicians that fight for abortion rights. That goes a little against those teachings you like to throw out there at the right doesn’t it???

    I wonder what old Matthew would have said about the comments you left on this page…or like you hipocrites like to always ask…what would Jesus do? He surely wouldn’t have singled out W like you did here, because he was never a snotty holier than thou fuck like you seem to be.

    A lot of stone throwing in that little screed of yours there Tom…but like many new democrats are always fond of saying these days, let no good disaster be wasted!

    I avoided the murderers’ funeral by watching and playing golf all weekend! Now that’s therapeutic!

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    It’s easy for you to PRETEND you’re a catholic or a christain for that matter, all the while supporting politicians that fight for abortion rights. That goes a little against those teachings you like to throw out there at the right doesn’t it???

    I guess misspelling Christian is OK when you purport to be one. One can be a good Catholic and understand that the abortion issue, under law, is secular. One may be against abortion personally but one does not have the right to impose that view as law. The Supreme Court laid out specific parameters for when abortion would be considered legal. Just because I support a woman’s right to choose causes me to be a murderer.

    Why should you even care about abortion? You don’t have a uterus! You have NO idea what kind of anguish a woman may go through in making that decision.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I never purported to be anything! I’ve been here at BC for a long time and I can promise you that you won’t find one comment in the 5 plus years that I’ve been here that would indicate that I believe in god at all! If anything, you might find some comments from back in the day when gonzo and shark were here asking a lot of questions about the church in general!

    Although my mother did once tell me, and I quote, “You were born a fucking catholic, you were raised a fucking catholic and you’re gonna die a fucking catholic!” That was when she was signing me into the navy when I was 17 and I had put no preference on the paperwork for religious preference. When I asked the recruiter to change it to fucking catholic it was also the last time my mother beat my ass!

    I’m not against abortion. I purposely left my own feelings on the issue out of it, because I knew you liberals would try and pin that on me.

    The point of the comment Silas, since you seem, like ALL the liberals here at BC to only pick the parts of a comment that you can argue with, is that this ASSHOLE had to give a guy shit who was doing nothing more than showing his respects to someone that I wouldn’t have bothered showing respect to, whether he was alive or dead.

    You know…that comment he made…quoting the new testament…I tell you this, whatever you did to the least of my brothers…blah blah blah…doesn’t that just fly in the face of giving someone shit who was just paying respects at a funeral? Doesn’t W count as at least “one of the least of his brothers”?

    And lastly, death, especially death of an innocent can and never will be secular! But I can see how you might see it that way. You forgave your senator for murder…

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    You know what? If this is where we’re going to end up as a society then all of those who have died fighting for this country died in complete vain. Perhaps Rick Perry’s subtle hints at secession are just the beginning. If we can’t find compromise and keep being assholes towards each other then let the union dissolve once and for all. The Far Right can have Texas, the Ozarks, Smokey Mountains and Utah. Call the region Jesusville for all I care. If dissolution were to come to a vote today I would vote in the affirmative just to be rid of the lot of you.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Yeah, that’s right, bring up religion and then get pissed when it gets thrown back in your face…

    Just so you know, I’d vote for the communistwealth of Mass to secede too!

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Whatever.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Good comeback!

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    You know what, Andy? It’s not worth my time or efforts to try and even discuss any issue with you. The bottom line is that I show more flexibility and am willing to understand other points of view and reach common ground. You, on the other hand, refuse to even acknowledge a person’s right to have a differing opinion without being snarky, snide and down right cruel. I am especially disturbed with your complete lack of charity where Ted Kennedy is concerned. This man was someone’s husband, father, grandfather and uncle. There are millions who felt and continue to feel his loss. Rather than acknowledge their loss and at least show some kind of sympathy, you chose your own path. Let me give you an unsolicited piece of advice. Is this how you want to be remembered when you die? Do you want to subject those whom you love and love you (if there is anyone who dare do so), to your kind of heartless, cowardly statements? I want to die satisfied in the knowledge that I made a positive impact on this world and did my part to improve our quality of life. I don’t know if I will get there, but damn it, I will be remembered for trying.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Silas – I didn’t say a word about your hero after his death until I read the, as you call it, snarky comments of Mr. Degan there in #157. I completely understand yours and others loss here, but for some reason this Tom Degan, the ASSHOLE, had to bring W’s name into it! For what? W was showing his respects and what did he get for it from one of your LIBERAL asshole cohorts but a bunch of bullshit!

    It was your CHRISTIAN friend up there in comment 157 that was throwing the stones and I just picked ‘em up and threw ‘em back and you got your feelings hurt…poor baby!

    And I’d almost bet that I’ve had my opinions swayed by reasonable argument more than you EVER have…

    And again, just so you know, my friends feel pretty much the same way I do about your hero and his family, so don’t you worry your little head one more little bit about it.