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Baby Suzy is Dead….

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CNN.COM
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) — The 19-month-old toddler who died during a gunfire exchange between police and her father was killed by a single police bullet to the head, the Los Angeles County coroner said Wednesday.

My heart bleeds for the mother of this beautiful child whose life was snuffed out by overzealous SWAT idiots. Could not one sniper get a clear head shot of this child’s father? Eleven police officers unloaded 90 rounds towards these two. In my opinion, all 11 should be brought up on first degree murder charges for the murder of this child.

CNN.COM

Chief William Bratton said Monday that Pena “left the officers no choice.”

BUFFALO CHIPS!

These SWAT teams have the technology and resources to take this guy out without harming the baby. They have tear gas. They have concussion grenades. They have flash grenades. Any of these could have been used to disable the father.

Senseless, Senseless, Senseless…..

Edited: LI

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About Mojoala

  • http://www.thebmrant.com Matt

    umm…first degree murder? Doesn’t that require premeditation? I think you’re going a bit far.

    Don’t get me wrong–as the father of a 3 year old, I feel awful about it and the cops cleared erred. But any charged should be tempered with some reason.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    ok, maybe I was a little hasty in suggesting 1st degree. None-the-less there was no need for all to open fire…

  • Ben

    Chief Bratton should be ashamed of himself for blaming the family of the victim in this case.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    Yes he should be!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.euphoria.jarkolicious.com HE!D!

    The father is the only one to blame. He had previously threatened the mother, his older daughter, and the baby. He didn’t care two hoots about his own child’s life. He used that baby as a shield. He’s an evil, sick, despicable man – and thank g-d he’s DEAD.


    Pena began shooting, using the toddler as a shield, Bratton said.

    The 17-year-old stepdaughter escaped, later telling police that Pena was under the influence of cocaine and alcohol and had threatened to kill her, the toddler, his wife and himself, Bratton said.

  • http://www.dialeticstorm.blogspot.com/ mojoala

    too bad there is not any video footage on this to see what happened….

  • http://www.euphoricreality.net HE!D!

    To try and remedy the above author’s apparent misunderstanding over what REALLY happened, allow me to assist:

    At 2 pm on July 10, Lorena Lopez called the police and filed a domestic threats report against Pena. Pena then abducted his 18-month-old daughter Susie from the mother’s home and took her to his car lot. Next, Pena’s 16-year-old stepdaughter called the police from the car lot, saying that Pena was physically threatening her. The police arrive, and Pena starts firing at them while holding his toddler in front of him. The police help the stepdaughter escape the line of fire. Pena continues to shoot, even as the SWAT team is trying to negotiate over the phone with Pena to peacefully surrender. Shooting continues for the next hour and a half, with the toddler always used by the coward as a make-shift bullet-proof vest. After hitting an officer, Pena goes down, his daughter with him.

    During the incident, Pena used a 9-millimeter Beretta pistol which had been stolen last year in a burglary in Oregon. His office at the car dealership contained a bag of cocaine and a half-drunk bottle of Tequila -consistent with the illegal Pena’s previous deportation for cocaine possession.

    Videotape captured images of Pena shooting at the police while holding his daughter, yet his relatives are questioning not only whether he used his daughter as a shield, but whether he was even armed at all, according to the Los Angeles Times.

    Oh yeah, did I forget to mention that Pena was an ILLEGAL Salvadoran who had been previously deported for cocaine possession? He was an alien FELON!

    Ahh yes, and that POOR GRIEVING mother? Well, she’s got herself a lawyer – you can expect a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the LAPD and the LA taxpayers in the near future. They’ll be paying for a murder committed by a man who wasn’t even supposed to be here!

    Now you know the rest of the story.

  • confused

    Can someone shove this story under the nose of the people on the other threads talking about “father’s rights”, please.

    Wrong for the cops to open fire and kill this child, just plain wrong.

  • http://www.dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    yes it is just plain wrong. So many options were completely ignored.

  • http://elfrederick.blogspot.com E L Frederick

    Ok, let me see here… guy holding a baby, shooting at cops, illegal, drunk and high….

    I’d say the cops showed remarked restraint for letting it go on for an hour and a half.

    Sucide by Swat Team.

    Oh, the poor mother, oh the poor baby… WHATEVER! The father was an Illegal and a crackhead. What kind of a future did the child have when the father is obiviously a violent nut.

    Why don’t you stop monday night quarterbacking and put on a uniform and see how you DO under fire from the enraged insaniacs.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com/ andy marsh

    Nope, it’s all bush’s fault…if the SOB had closed the borders, this guy would never have gotten back into the country…

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    well that is one way to look at it.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com/ andy marsh

    it was meant to be sarcasm?!??!!

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    How many of you would be singing a different song and dance, if the man had grab someone’s elses baby(for example, your own child) to use as a shield, and that someone’s elses baby got killed?

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com/ andy marsh

    you’re right mojoala…they should have just gave him more ammo and waited until he got tired of shooting up the neighborhood!

    It is a shame that a baby had to lose her life over an asshole of a father..but the father shouldn’t have been in the country in the first place…do you suppose that mommy and big sister new he was in the country and never bothered to call INS or any other law enforcement agency…until it was to their benefit to do so???

    just a thought…

  • http://elfrederick.blogspot.com E L Frederick

    If the guy had even attempted to grab my kid(s) he would of been dead before he hit the ground.

    I don’t have to calls the cops until after the shooting is over. It’s called criminal tresspassing, breaking and entering, and self defense.

    If my dog hadn’t been enough to distract him, my wife is a better shot than I am.

    However, the guy is dead, he killed the infant by his own actions. The cops had no choice and were as patient with him as they could be.

    Don’t drink and drive, don’t drink and wave a pistol around, don’t use cocaine and wave a pistol around, don’t drink and use cocaine and wave a pistol around, and especially, don’t drink, use cocaine, hold an infant, and shoot at cops.

    Doesn’t take a 2nd grader to figure out that math. Even Forrest Gump could seen that coming.

    “Stupid is as stupid does.”

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    If this was a perfect world, but it is not and never will be.

  • http://elfrederick.blogspot.com E L Frederick

    What does this not being a perfect world have to do with anything?

    If this was a perfect world the father wouldn’t of been high on coke, or drunk, and would of been a “Fred McMurry” kind of dad. Life would be “My Three Sons”.

    In a perfect world there wouldn’t be a need for policeman or firemen, other than to rescue cats from trees.

    Whites and coloreds could be washed together, and the whole world would sing in perfect harmony while holding cola products.

    You have to play the hand you got dealt. It may suck, you may have a fist full of nothing, then again you may end up with a pair or a full house. In the end, your only playing against yourself.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    I will ask again:

    How many of you would be singing a different song and dance, if the man had grab someone’s elses baby(for example, your own child) to use as a shield, and that someone’s elses baby got killed?

  • Nancy

    The song would be the same: the fault lies entirely w/Lopez, not the cops. BTW, the whole family is a nest of illegals, so IMO they ALL deserve shooting just on general principle that they’re all lawbreakers. For those to whom this is a little extreme, at the least they should be booted out of the county immediately. But I don’t weep for the death of any illegal. It’s part of the chance they take.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    An attitude like that could go a long way.

    I am against speeders, so if I see you speeding down the road, you are a lawbreaker so by your logic I can kill you because you deserve being shot just on general principle that you are a lawbreaker, or at a minimum boot you out of the country immediately.

    Some of are without a doubt, descendents of illegal immigrants at some point in time. Not all came thru Ellis Island. So should you be evicted from this country because your ancestor came here illegally? Yes by your logic, you inherited the crime from your descendants.

  • Nancy

    Absolutely yes, I agree, it applies to me too. And yes, I think speeders deserve whatever they get, too. I too often see them walking away while their innocent victims are maimed or killed. Which is why I don’t speed, & do my damnedest to obey the laws: precisely because I DON’T consider myself exempt, above, or outside the law. It couldn’t apply to illegal ancestors, since anyone born in the US, according to current US law, is a US citizen. So the baby is NOT illegal. She has a right to be here; but her parents do not. I personally would prefer we amend the law so that those born of illegals are not automatically US citizens just because they happen to be born here. Most countries do not automatically confer citizenship status on those born within the borders if the parents are not citizens; only the idiot US does that. That would have the effect of shortcircuiting a lot of illegals who come here to give birth just because it then confers citizen status on their kids & indirectly gives them a toehold claim on staying.

    I don’t resent & dislike these people because they’re foreign; I resent & dislike them because they’re ILLEGAL. They come here beginning w/the premise that they don’t give a rat’s ass for our laws, they don’t respect basic rules & courtesies, to other would-be immigrants who DO observe the laws not least. On that premise alone I would deport them all. As for illegals who are also criminals, I would declare open season for all vigilantes, and frankly I think criminals like Lopez should be shot on sight, by anyone who has the lead.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    But according as I understand the law, once the child is born, the parents have legitimacy in staying.

  • http://elfrederick.blogspot.com E L Frederick

    MojoAla – Would you greatly mind telling us what color the sky is on the planet your on?

    Yes, it’s a shame that this kid is dead. However, I fail to understand how you can blame the LAPD for the death.

    By your logic, the cops would have no lethal weapons to do their jobs with. You would have three dead cops instead of one dead kid. These men have just as much right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness as the child did. The difference is, these men were being shot at by the father of this child, who was high, and drunk, and holding the baby.

    I am glad that in your brilliance you can see other way that this could of been handled. Perhaps you should place you hands on the desk in front of you and push yourself back from it, get up, and go down to your local police station and get a job as a cop.

    Kids die, it’s sad. Even if this was a rich white kid, and not a poor hispanic illegal, it would make no difference, the cops aren’t to blame. The father was the person most responcible for the death of himself and the child.

  • Nancy

    I don’t know what rights having a child born here to illegal parents confers on the parents. There was recently a case in the DC area of parents being deported while the kid was allowed to stay w/legal relatives. Maybe someone else has better info? But as I said, I think that should be changed to put a stop to that particular incentive to violate the law.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    I once had a stepfather who was a weekend Police Officer. I have a cousin who only position left to be promoted to is Chief of Police. He is feared by other policeman because he will take down a bad cop in a heart beat.

    Why are the police to blame. You had swat there that are professional marksman. One shot to the head would have eliminated the problem.

    Here are some comments from my own blog on this matter:

    1. thank god I don’t have a job like that, I could hardly live with my self if I knew my bullet was the one that pierced that child’s head.

    2. I have the highest regard for all tho’s who put their life on the line for others. But much like Mojoala I too feel like their must have been someway to avoid hiting a child, especially one this small. Maybe they could have shot the suckers knees out from under him? I don’t know, just a thought.

    3. I would think the cops should have taken the higher ground here. The man with the baby was obviously crazed. Was there any verbal negotiation done? Yes he was responsible for the safety of the child, but the cops are responsible for the saftety of the citizens. Ken please don’t tell me that the only option the cops had was to shoot the baby in the head. My cousin is a cop and have all the respect in the world for what the police force does to insure safety in our lives, but surely with all the technology to restrain and capture psychotics or the like, there was another option besides killing this child. Do you really think that was their only option?

    4. yes, there were other options.
    they could have let him run out of bullets. The police no doubt had on flak jackets and were behind cars and other barricades. They could have waited it out and gotten a good shot in. No, I think it might be trigger happy whites seizing on the chance to rid the U.S. of another hispanic.

    5. This is insane!If anything swat teams are precision hitters.I want to know how in the world they couyld hit a small girl like that that might be only a ft and a half tall maybe even less compared to a full grown man.And if anything the police in this type of situation are to surround the building and have a sniper on the building across to get a shot in and have a negotiater on the line with the man and remind him it’s his daughter maybe he would’v put the freakn gun down.And ken i have a high regard for officers but this kind of senslessnes is uncalled for.

    6. My wife was a Chief of Police and she was shocked by this act of pure stupidity. If these guys aren’t brought up on charges, she’ll probably be burning up the phone lines and do a little ass-chewing herself.

    7. This should have been settled without the childs death. Period. Two words could have solved this entire situation: Advanced Taser! Trust me, it works VERY WELL. Even if it hit the child, there would have been no after affect other than the child crying. Better than death.

  • Nancy

    Nobody knows. I work w/SWAT team members, & I can tell you (& w/all those relatives being police connections, you should know yourself) things are not clear-cut or easy in such a situation, & 20-20 hindsight is not something to be indulged in here. I wasn’t on the scene, you weren’t on the scene. Others were & they did as best they could. No cop wants to kill, most especially a baby. I’ll bet those guys are going thur trauma counselling even now, & will be for years to come. It’s not something they did for fun or because it was time for lunch & they were growing impatient. No one who was not on the scene can make any assumptions or postulate ‘what ifs’. And, as someone pointed out, the mother could very well have alerted authorities or grabbed the kid & prevented all this happening in the first place, if we’re going to play ‘what if’. So, is she the one ultimately to blame? No: it’s still right back on Lopez, where it belongs.

  • http://elfrederick.blogspot.com E L Frederick

    “Why are the police to blame. You had swat there that are professional marksman. One shot to the head would have eliminated the problem.”

    If only a single shot to the head was that simple.

    Even with a head shot, for a “one shot, one kill” reliable hit your looking at hitting an area the size of a golf ball to take out the targets brainstem.

    Not to mention the target doesn’t want to get hit, and is moving. Being drunk, he may of been staggering, being high, he may of been staggering all over the place rather hyper.

    I can see that hitting a hyper-drunk golf ball isn’t as easy as it sounds.

    Plus, what range are we talking about? 50 feet? 100 yards?

    What about weather condtions, wind, how much is the bullet going to be moved by the current condtions.

    What size is the bullet? 7.62? 5.25?

    How is the baby being held?

    How much margin for error?

    Sure, a shot to head… it can’t be that hard… it’s done in the movies all the time…

    Oh tazer, great idea, what if the target drops the baby, lands on the baby.

    If the guy is high, how is he going to react to the tazer? I’ve seen PCP’d up guys handcuffed to ambulence gurneys rip the handcuffs thru the gurneys.

    I am sure they did the best they could in the situation, we weren’t there. It’s easy to take pot shots at the boys in blue from across the county after the fact when you don’t have all the facts or a gun to your head.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    But the one thing everybody is overlooking is that the once again the LAPD is involved.

    That group really needs some federal investigation. That group contains too many racists and bad cops….

    PERIOD!

  • http://www.euphoricreality.net HE!D!

    Ahhh…since we’re posting comments from our own blog, let’s post this winner here:

    It does not matter what the statistics were on the mother, father, or the rest of the family.

    What does matter is that a child died when all measures were not exhausted to save a life.

    Like I said before, they have technology available that was not used. At the very minimum that could have stayed hidden behind their shields and let the man run out of bullets. They could have also waited until night to utilize some the night vision technology that would have made him stand out like a sore thumb and then gotten a good head shot. They could of used tear-gas. They could have used Concussion-Grenades. They could have used Flash-Grenades. And they could have used something not listed here that I have no knowledge of.

    ALL MEANS WERE NOT EXHAUSTED TO SAVE THIS CHILDS LIFE.

    THIS IS JUST ANOTHER CASE OF LAPD BEING BRUTAL AS USUAL. BEING WHITE MYSELF, I CAN SAY THIS WITH BEING CALLED A RACIST – LAPD NEEDS TO CLEAN HOUSE OF ALL CURRENT WHITE POLICE OFFICERS AND HIRE NEW ONES.

    Comment by mojoala – Tue, 19 Jul 2005 @ 04:30 |

    My response to Mojoala, but censored for bad language:

    Hell yes, it matters who the sicko father was – an alien felon who should not have been in the country to kill his own kid!! Yes, that matters, xxxxxxx. It matters because for some reason you’d shift the blame from the raving, druggie, shithead father to the police that showed up AT THE BEHEST OF THE MOTHER! You assume they rushed to the scene to take pot shots at a baby’s head – and conveniently ignore all the facts that lead up to that tragedy!

    So, in your ignorant opinion, the father should’ve just been allowed to shoot it up for a few more hours, after already shooting a cop?! That sounds so smart – just nevermind anyone else who could get killed out there! Public safety really shouldn’t be a priority for cops, in your opinion?

    And in your opinion these “brutal” WHITE cops deliberately shot at and killed this baby? After they went to the trouble of saving the teenage daughter, and taking fire for 90 minutes, and taking a bullet, they what? – just freaked out and decided to murder the baby?! What’s wrong with you? Your assumptions are obscene!

    And why do you think those “brutal, murderous” cops were ALL white? Stop your whining long enough to think! How is it possible that an entire cordon of SWAT in LA wouldn’t have SOME black or hispanic officers there? Do you have a clue about the demographics in LA? Of course those cops weren’t all white – you foolish twit! But in your weird world, minority cops couldn’t possibly be blamed, because then it wouldn’t fit into your EVIL, WHITE, MURDEROUS COP scenario.

    I think it is sick how you just assume that those police officers just shot away at that baby. You assume that you know exactly what happened – and you know less than nothing. You have no idea what steps they took, and tried to take to avoid harming that child.

    You also have no idea that a DEAD CHILD is a cop’s WORST NIGHTMARE! Did you stop to think that those men are fathers, husbands, sons? That they’ll have nightmares about it, and cry about it, and wonder if any of it is worth the heartache? No, of course you didn’t – because you know NOTHING about the men and women that put on uniforms to protect your lousy xxx. You assume the worst, you accuse them of inhumanity, and whine about xxxx you know nothing about!

    You are an ignorant fool, Mojoala, and worse, you presume to yammer about something you have absolutely no knowledge of. STxU.

    Comment by HE!D! — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 @ 09:17

  • http://www.euphoricreality.net HE!D!

    Oops, missed a bad word.

    “raving, druggie, shithead father” should read:

    “raving, druggie, xxxxhead father”

    I apologize for the oversight.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy

    Oh yeah…that’s right…it’s a race issue…of course…the drugs…the alcohol…the kidnapping…and that’s what it is…he took the kid without permission…the illegally entering the country…discharging a firearm in the general direciton of police officers and the general public…reloading and doing it again…that has nothing to do with it…him and his child were killed because of the color of their skin…not because this asshole was shooting and reloading out in public…

    How could I be so stupid???

  • http://elfrederick.blogspot.com E L Frederick

    “How many of you would be singing a different song and dance, if the man had grab someone’s elses baby(for example, your own child) to use as a shield, and that someone’s elses baby got killed?”

    Oh, so your pulling the race card in this statement… ok… I can play along.

    You think that a hispanic babies life is worth more than a white cop?

    How about a black cop?

    How about a hispanic cop?

    So you think that miniories are so dumb and have such disadvantages just based on their ethnicity that they need someone to make sure that they can get jobs?

    As I said before, I don’t care if it was a white kid… the cops did the right thing. If it were me doing that kind of idiotic behavior I would expect to be shot dead myself.

    Must be why I don’t do drugs or get drunk or shoot at cops.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    giving the history of the LAPD….

  • http://www.euphoricreality.net HE!D!

    Puhlease. You said that ALL white cops in the LAPD need to be fired and replaced. All.

    “Given the history of the LAPD…” What “history” are you referring to? A few over-sensationalized cases? Or the millions of non-publicized cases that schmoes like you don’t hear about where crimials are caught, lives are saved, people are helped, and cops die in the line of duty??? I’m assuming you’re referring to the sensational cases – because it’s obvious you’re not paying attention the other 99% of the time! Nor do you care or pay attention unless you need the cops yourself (emphasize the word “NEED”), or when you watch your TV/MTV and watch the sensational coverage of 1 case in a MILLION.

    LA is a cesspool, and is overwhelmed with a vast underground of illegal aliens who are quickly becoming the majority, just in sheer numbers. The LAPD has an almost impossible, thankless job – and most of the cops do the best they can, no matter what color they are. And jerks like you harp on 1 incident in a million instead of looking at the countless times cops HELP.

    Do you honestly think that every single white cop is evil and corrupt? I don’t. I know there’s probably a few, just as there are a few corrupt black cops, and a few corrupt hispanic cops, and a few corrupt Asian cops, etc. Does that mean we wipe the board clean of that “evil” ethnicity? That leaves no one left! Except big, brave YOU, I guess. How stupid can you be? You must be workin’ really hard at it.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    No not every white cop is a racist or bad. Yes there are bad Hispanic and Black cops as well. All the more reason for cleaning house and investigation.

    And no I don’t watch MTV. For entertainment I watch the SCI FI channel.

    For News I watch the News on a variety of channels.

    I get the impression that you are a racist and a bigot by your anger and profanity in regards to these illegals whom are the most part Mexican.

    Is LA a cesspool becasue of it’s Mexicans?

    That one case in a million should never happen in the first place. 11 cops opening fire vs 1 swat member taking a good shot.

    The technology is there and was not used. The level headedness is there and was not used. Common sense was there and not used.

    When one decides to be a cop, one does so knowing what is expected. They have the choice to be a cop or not a cop. Just as a politician or an hollywood actor/actress loses all private life when they decide to become famous.

    Nobody forces a person to a cop or anything against their will. Nobody forced me to join the Navy.

    Everybody that leaves their house for the day to attend their occupation should do so in a state of mind that anything they do will be reported in the News that day.

    11 cops opening fire in lieu of the sniper are just a tad bit to trigger happy. Was restraint and discipline excericsed?

    Pena had a limited supply of ammo whereas the Police had a potential for unlimited ammo. They could have waited him out.

    It would have been better at the least to allow him to kill the child with his own bullet than from one of the Police Officer.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy

    Lemme shoot a couple 9 mil rounds toward your head…let’s see how “level headed” you stay…

    You were in MY navy???

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    Lemme shoot a couple 9 mil rounds toward your head…let’s see how “level headed” you stay…

    Yes I can stay level headed. So can a lot of cops. When you become a cop you are given great power.

    To quote spiderman movie

    With Great Power comes Great Responsibility.

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    yes, your navy.

    and I am a disabled veteran too!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy

    I’ll agree with the spiderman quote…however comma pause for effect…do you really think it would have been better to let him keep shooting up the street and the cops and eventually himself and his baby girl until he ran out of bullets???

    Was there some way for the cops to know how many rounds he had on him…he had reloaded…more than once the way I understand it…

    I just can’t blame the cops for shooting an illegal who’d been run out of the country at least once before…for committing felonies as an illegal…

    why didn’t someone call the authorities when they first found out he was back? I find the family just as guilty in this as anyone else…I mean…why not blame INS or Border Patrol…or better yet…let’s blame that minuteman group in AZ…I bet it was them that let this slimeball slip back into the country…

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    I don’t know. I have done a lot study on strategies by both SWAT and Navy Seals. I almost became a Seal when I joined the Navy. Having a knowledge of case studies and tactics used by both groups, it is my best opinion that all that could’ve been done was not done. I will stand firm on this issue. And if a SWAT team has not the ability to do it’s job, then they should really call in the Military whom have a var greater training and technology at their disposal.

    If you really want to get to root blame, then blame George Bush. Our troops in Iraq and other places could be better utilized protecting our own borders than occupying a country halfway across the world.

    During the time since 9/11 we could have built a great wall of china across the US/Mexican border. But would that stop them? no. They would just skim along the coast and enter via a beach, or enter via Canada.

    Personally I believe all Immigration should be disallowed until a time is reached when the unemployment rate drops into the negative. I believe in Protectionism, protect the lives and jobs already here.

  • http://www.euphoricreality.net HE!D!

    Was restraint and discipline excericsed[sic]?

    I wasn’t there – nor were you. But I think that after taking fire for an hour and a half from a crazed, erratic druggie; and having one of their own shot – YES, I do believe they showed some restraint and discipline.

    I feel very bad for the baby. It’s sad. But I would feel worse if a few policemen were buried so that this felon could run out of bullets. I’d be horrified if I was a cop’s wife or child, and was told that my loved one was killed while a madman was free to shoot it up.

    Let me ask you this: do you honestly believe that after 90 minutes, every available option wasn’t examined? That if a simple sniper shot would’ve worked, they wouldn’t have done it? These SWAT cops aren’t idiots, ya know. Do you think they would risk getting shot themselves, if there was ANY OTHER WAY?!! What do you think they were doing that whole time – just sittin’ on their asses waiting for a clear shot at the baby’s head? Do you think that after 90 minutes of restraint and negotiation, these cops just lost it and freaked – all 11 of them at the same exact time? Do you honestly believe that 11 cops shot up that baby with no regard whatsoever? Do you honestly believe that all 11 cops were white and that therefore ALL white cops in the LAPD need to be fired?

    Do you HONESTLY believe ALL that – or is it just rhetoric on your part?

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    90 minutes is a short time. Some of the case studies have shown that it was neccessary to wait hundreds of hours.

    Not to mentioned some of the more high profile standoffs such as Waco and Ruby Ridge.

    I have an In-law in Puerto Rico that is SWAT. We had a discussion on this very issue when I went down to visit.

    Even as poor as they are, they have some very cool gadgets. Occasionally they are sent to the States for training and to learn new technology.

    As for what was not done, we will have to wait for the investigation and the subsequent case study to be published.

  • http://minutemanparty.com CAMinuteman

    I agree that every police chief, every mayors, and every member of the Board of Supervisors going back to 1979 is to blame for allowing Special Order 40 to protect violent scum like Pena.

    I think all reasonable, compassionate people including the poor SWAT officers who were forced to be Pena’s murder weapon should form a class action to sue the city, and the LAPD to rescind Special Order 40.

    Why did they let him off on a weapons charge when he pulled a gun on a woman who was a customer? I guarrantee you that no citizen would get away with that.

    Further, I think his entire family should be rounded up, checked for immigration status, and expeditiously deported before they can file a pointless lawsuit to further enrich themselves at our expense. It was rumoured that he had 4 different wives, 5 different aliases, and he was arrested more than 5 times.

    How many times was he deported?

    Once.

    And they say we have security in the Homeland?

    Now that is a good one.

  • http://www.euphoricreality.net HE!D!

    90 minutes is a short time.

    90 minutes ain’t so short when bullets are flying – it’s a helluva long time to sit under fire.

    By the way, you didn’t answer ONE of my questions about what YOU really think. Does that mean it’s all just empty rhetoric?

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    What do you believe. I told you what I believe.

    you just want to rant, go ahead.

    you are starting to sound more like one of those protestant penecostals, it theirway or the highway.

  • mojosbro

    ah..let’s see you attacked the white man, the police department, the swat team, the mayor, and now protestant pentecostals.

    Heidi…your answer is obvious, empty rhetoric. Mojoala is actually a very smart individual, he just has issues.

    While it is horrible that this baby has died, there is only one person to blame. The father. But we must understand that mojo’s reaction is classic liberalism….blame somebody else for the consequenses of your actions.

  • http://www.euphoricreality.net HEIDI

    “you are starting to sound more like one of those protestant penecostals”

    Well, if so, ‘protestant pentecostals’ must be cussing a helluva lot these days!

    What a typical limp-dick response. You got nothing better than that, huh?

  • http://dialeticstorm.blogspot.com mojoala

    this is closed.

    we are beating a dead horse on both sides….

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