I remember being derided and scorned by all the liberals and Democrats on these threads whom I enraged when, back at the beginning of the campaign, I said (among other things) that Hillary was power hungry and looking out for herself.

Headline: "Hillary Clinton's Betrayal of Feminism"

Subhead: "As far as I'm concerned, Hillary Clinton has betrayed feminism."

Lede: "As far as I'm concerned, Hillary Clinton has betrayed feminism."

So what exactly are you trying to say, Lisa?

Lisa,

I don't mean to give you apoplexy or anything, but women and what they have desired in the way of an equitable society have been around long before feminism made its appearance.

If, in your view, Hillary Clinton has betrayed American women with her selfish ambition, fine. But don't make the mistake of confusing a yet embryonic ideology with the better half of mankind. You do yourself a disservice.

If you feel that the Democratic political platform (for what little it is worth) is better for women than that of opposing political parties, also fine. But do not make the arrogant assumption that all American women do or even should want what is written in that platform. American "feminism" has long been known as a plaything for rich elite women with little else to do but complain, and your comments display why. If you are not yourself part of that rich bored elite, you have certainly imbibed their attitudes.

Wow Lisa. Over the top much? "Setting feminism back to the stone age?" Have you considered that a lot of women have moved beyond making feminism their primary concern and have moved more into the mainstream where their concerns are the same as those of other voters? The fact that they don't put feminism first is a sign of how much progress women has made.

One of the points which I saw one of these PUMAs make was that the majority of small businesses in America are owned by women, and that Obama's tax proposals will hit small businesses particularly hard. That alone is a good enough reason for many women to vote for McCain.

A lot of far-left democrats don't seem to get how much successful and ambitious women don't want to lose that success because of rapacious government policies.

Dave

The author of this article is no feminist. At least not in the classical definition. The classical definition of feminsit is a person who seeks to empower ALL women to to be able do or say whatever they want in this life.

But as we see with the author of this article....the word feminsit has been hijacked by leftists and has come to mean a person that touts the leftist view on every issue where women are a specific concenr.

If the author of this article were a true feminist she would admit that abortion is a very complicated issue that gives those on both sides pause to think long and hard about thier position on the issue. The author would have acknowledged the fact that the millions of women in this nation who are pro-life believe in equality and justice for women just as much as the most ardent pro-choice individuals. But instead we get the tired canned sentiment that any women who votes McCain is voting against their own self interests because he opposes abortion. The author, in typical leftist fashion presumes that she speaks for all woman and that her own personal interests and political views are those of all women in this nation. The author of this article has nothing but scorn and ridicule for any woman that does not think exactly like her.

It never crosses the author's mind that women who disagree with her may wish to vote for the person that they think is best suited for the job and that that person is Hillary. No...those women....like the author suggest....must toe the party line. If there not carrying water for the Dem party like the author of this article...they're usless.

Lisa goes on in the article to offer up another reguritated leftist talking point...something about stopping evil corporate lust.

Lisa.....you're no feminist. You have nothing at all to do with solving America's problems. You're obviously incapable of independent thought. You're a mindless shill for the far left ideology and the Dem party. I do believe that if you were to have an original thought that you hadn't already heard being touted by moveon.org, planned parenthood or some other left wing interest group enter your mind, your head would explode.

Well, Lisa, what's the verdict on her speech?

Well now. Do I open up this can of worms? Sure, I'm game. I never quite understood this feminism shtick. Feminists of America, stop whining. You're entrusted with the fundamental task of birthing and nurturing children. And in this society you're failing miserably. A quick examination of history reveals clearly that the greatest leaders were inspired by mothers who thought outside the box -- just look at the Kennedys for example. Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy was the heart and soul of the clan - NOT her husband.

To me it's all about education once again. If feminist mothers spent more time inspiring their children during the formative years instead of burning bras imagine where we would be today. Educated mothers produce educated children. Educated children grow to be informed adults. An informed society which takes an active part in its governance means a better life for the village (sorry, Hillary). How can we expect excellence from our government when all we produce is idiocy? I strongly suggest that people see the movie, Idiocracy. As satirical as it may be, it's a pretty strong indictment of our culture. Oops, how many people over the age of 21 know the meaning of idiocy, satirical or indictment? Not long ago I made a comment to a young cashier in my local supermarket. She made a joke about a certain brand of soap I was purchasing to which I responded, "Most truth is spoken in jest." She replied, "I never tried that soap, is it any good?" Jes, indeed, it is.

You're entrusted with the fundamental task of birthing and nurturing children. And in this society you're failing miserably.

I'll be sure to run that by my wife, Silas.

And wow, you outsmarted a cashier with your witticisms. That really represents a slide in our society, doesn't it?

Ill try to respond to all here:

Ruvy: I never said ALL women. I was speaking of Democrats and their platform. Women who say they are Democrats and support that party platform and yet were not sure about voting for the head of that party. Your other comments are rude and ill informed. Women activists have done much for the women for this country--from getting them the vote, to ensuring them safe and effective birth control to helping them receive equal pay for equal work. No feminist I know, including myself, is either rich or bored.

To Dave: Mark Warner and the success in Virginia show how Democrats can work with a kind agenda and not forget business, large and small. If women wish to vote only their pocketbook then they should not be Democrats.

Arch Conservative: Sounds to me like you are the shill. I agree with you with feminism means taking care of all people, which means ALL. It does not mean a letting a man appoint men to a supreme court who will then decide that women must bear children against our will. Abortion is complicated. I am NOT pro-abortion. I am pro privacy and pro choice. I am pro the government staying out of my choice of whether to bear a child. And as for choosing Hillary because women prefer her.... that is self defeating. If women choose to do that, then they will lose the chance of supporting a party which has their best interests (and in that case their chosen candidate's) interests in mind. Remember: Hillary's and Obama's positions are extremely similar. But Obama won the nomination. All I was asking was that Hillary get out of the way.

To Silas Kain: I am a highly educated woman who stayed home to raise educated, good, kind children to whom I am very close (in fact, I still have a 15 year old at home), all the while working from my home. We lived close to the bone so I could do this. It was my choice, as a feminist and a mother and I feel blessed and lucky to have been able to do it.

To Lee Richards: The speech? She did what she had to do, although it was not the slam dunk others thought it was. I plan to write about it:)

Gawddamn, Silas, I didn't realize I missed you 'round these parts till that comment.

Sorry, Jordan. No offense meant to your wife. General statements can be misleading sometimes. But the bottom line remains. Educated mothers create educated children and educated children can change the world.

Lisa: I am a highly educated woman who stayed home to raise educated, good, kind children to whom I am very close (in fact, I still have a 15 year old at home), all the while working from my home. We lived close to the bone so I could do this. It was my choice, as a feminist and a mother and I feel blessed and lucky to have been able to do it.

Well, God (Allah, Jehovah, Mother Nature, Great Creator) bless you, Lisa! This is what I'm talking about. We need more mothers like you out here. Regardless of an educated mother's ideology, an educated child will grow to think for themselves and make decisions accordingly.

Matt Sussman: Gawddamn, Silas, I didn't realize I missed you 'round these parts till that comment.

Thanks, Matt. I'm looking forward to igniting some serious fires of debate. It's great to be back.

Sorry, Jordan. No offense meant to your wife. General statements can be misleading sometimes. But the bottom line remains. Educated mothers create educated children and educated children can change the world.

Agreed.

Anybody remember H. Ross Perot? In 1992, H. Ross, a Texas billionaire ran a successful third-party candidacy for president. As it turns out, H. Ross's agenda was to peel enough votes from George H. W. Bush, another Texas billionaire, who also happened to be the president and hand the election to the Democratic opposition, who just happened to be Bill Clinton. H. Ross siphoned off an estimated 20-million votes. Mission accomplished, H. Ross vanished into the ether from whence he sprung, leaving 20-million voters in the lurch. Bill Clinton went on to fulfill many of H. Ross's popular proposals, like a balanced budget. But while H. Ross's motive had been a vendetta, the Clinton's motives are political. And, on them the lesson of Perot's displaced minions has not been lost. As Dwight D. Eisenhower said: The only thing new under the sun, is the history you don't know: http://theseedsof9-11.com

Hillary burst through the glass ceiling and unfortunately now thinks she is better than everyone else. Why, I don't know. I could never understand how she thought being a First Lady qualified her for the Presidency. She's got just as much experience as Obama.

But, that's what happens when your head gets too big to go through a doorway.

I liked Hillary's speech. It was so subtly vindictive. All about her and her accomplishments and the future of the party and virtually no mention of Obama or any future role for him. It was like her first campaign speech for 2012.

Dave

It was like her first campaign speech for 2012.

Dead on.

Lisa,

I've been embarrassed by the response of the female Hillary supporters. They have displayed a classic stereotypical response by responding emotionally, pouting and missing the point. They have been all in a tizzy about nothing. It is a political battle. Someone will loose. Hillary lost. Now gear up for the bigger fight. They certainly have not behaved as feminists. It's funny that when people make requirements of others (a la civil rights) its easy to wag the finger but when it's your turn up to bat there is always a caveat. Human nature I suppose.

Hillary did a great job. I was proud of her. Because of her speech, I think I've almost decided that I'm a Democrat.

Silas Kain

I think it's you who doesn't understand what feminism is. It's simply fairness for women. You can't be against that. It means equal pay for equal work. How is that bad?

Most feminists are great moms because they are smart and aware of why they do what they are doing instead of floating along mindlessly inputting cup cakes and jelly donuts in their kids; thinking they are great because they have lined up a string on inconsequential activities for their unrefined and uninquisitive, "quality timed" children. Most feminists are very creative and open minded regarding child rearing. They tend to open up the world for their kids instead of "Stepford wife-ing" away in a glace somewhere in suburbia, having nothing interesting to impart into their children.

Zedd. Yup, they behaved miserably. Just my point. Although I didn't like Hillary's behavior either. I think she sort of womaned up last night, but not really..... I sort of, gasp, agree with Dave! Subtly vindictive.

And to Silas: I chose to raise my own kids after working many years as a journalist. I am still and will always be a feminist, though. Though? I worked, albeit mostly at home, although was often away as much as a month at a time, while my husband had the kids. We lived abroad twice with the children and travled with them extensively. I was involved in local politics for which I traveled. I did much volunteer work. Somehow I managed to manage. It was not always easy and was never lucrative. Regrets? Like Frank Sinatra, a few. But nothing insurmountable. But many many women in this country don't have the chance to make the choices I did. Equal pay for equal work is still not a reality. Birth control still is not often covered by health insurance. Many women have no health insurance at all. Single mothers have few options. Women in politics in the US are small in numbers compared to other developed countries. We have made many inroads but we have grown complascent. The young girls today would rather look sexy than be smart and still and all money and celebrity rules too many people's lives rather than doing the right and good thing and thinking of others before yourself. Sigh.

Zedd
Didn't see your new comment before I replied to the others. Yup, again. No Stepford Mom was I:)

Dave Nalle: I liked Hillary's speech. It was so subtly vindictive.

I screamed so much all three times I watched her speech that I still haven't been able to get her message entirely. For the most part you are right on, Dave.

And now maybe it's time for the voters to be not-so-subtly vindictive. Maybe, just maybe, we need to do something really drastic: Take a pen into the voting booth or ask for a paper ballot! I'm not kidding, folks. Maybe that's just what this country's politicians need! The power of the pen is mightiest. If McCain blows his chance by nominating some pretty-boy millionaire politician (subtle enough, Dave?) maybe that's just what I'll do. Can you imagine herds of voters asking for paper ballots in any state south of the Mason-Dixon line? It would send poll workers into convulsions!

P.S. Once my blood pressure goes down I'll try and watch her speech again. But the smug look on Michelle Obama's face coupled with the Obama workers forcing "Unity" banners down the throats of the delegates was too much for me to bear. The Democrats can try and convince us all they want that they're united but the fact is they're as dysfunctional and fractured as Congress.

Lisa: The young girls today would rather look sexy than be smart and still and all money and celebrity rules too many people's lives rather than doing the right and good thing and thinking of others before yourself. Sigh.

Lisa, first of all I applaud you for what you've done as an individual mother. Now with regard to the above quote, the young girls today would not be so preoccupied with this crap were it not for the fact that their own parents and grandparents allowed it. Don't blame society as a whole. Don't blame the teachers.

I have a motto that "homeland security begins at home." I use the same motto as an analogy to education. It begins at home. Children emulate their parents. As every succeeding generation of parents devolve, the standards get a wee bit lower and this is what we're left with.

Zed: I think it's you who doesn't understand what feminism is. It's simply fairness for women. You can't be against that. It means equal pay for equal work. How is that bad?

It's not bad. And, again, I emphasize the education factor. Oppressed women who accepted the status quo begat another generation of the same. I am a staunch advocate of fairness. Equal work for equal pay should be the standard not a political football. And until women stand up and revolt in a dramatic way the road to equality will be ridden littered with penile land mines.

Women still have the power. I refer to a comment I made above. If women are THAT disenfranchised about Hillary there remains something they can do. Go to the polls. Demand a paper ballot. Write in Hillary Clinton's name. Send Washington and the entire political process into a tail spin. In theory it could work. There just remains one slight problem. I don't think 70% of the population could spell H-I-L-L-A-R-Y C-L-I-N-T-O-N much less the word VOTE.

Welp, now it's official.

Thanks, Jordan. Now it's official, the Democrats just lost this person's vote. Anybody care to join me?

Did he offer to 'sex them up' if they voted for Obama?

Did you see him hitting on the widow of the murdered Arkansas Dem party head during Hilly's speech last night?

Dave

I wonder if Barry has ever given Michelle a "dirty sanchez."

What do you think Lisa? Yea or nay?

Arch, isn't she a Congressperson from California? I think her first name is Lorena. Oops I mean Loretta.

I do remember noticing during HRC's first concession speech, back in June, that she grinned whenever talking about her own campaign, but the smile disappeared whenever she endorsed Obama. I don't like agreeing with the cynics on the conservative side of this site, so I was relieved to see much less of this open ambivalence in her speech last night.

Sheer theater? Maybe. Still insincere? It's possible. But the energy in the hall was amazing, and it had little or nothing to do with slyly dissing Obama, or whatever our sourpuss conservative friends think they are perceiving. "No way, no how, no McCain" was a line for the ages.

"No way, no how, no McCain" was a line for the ages..

Well, maybe for the months...

Joanne H: "Hillary burst through the glass ceiling ... "

Well, not really Joanne. More like she hit the glass ceiling, then America handed her a dirty great bottle of Windex. Maybe that's why she seems miffed, and superior. She's probably a bit p.ssed off.

If she'd burst through the ceiling, she'd be the Dems' presidential candidate, and she ain't.

More chance of America having a conservative woman president than a liberal one, just like Maggie Thatcher in the UK.

...perhaps if she were a hermaphrodite she'd have won the nomination

troll - just thought I'd let you know that I've met Pig and so far, I like him!

cool - enjoy the read

More chance of America having a conservative woman president than a liberal one, just like Maggie Thatcher in the UK.

Good point.

I think I am glad that I didn't have internet service all day yesterday.

BTW. Thought Bill's speech much better than Hill's and much more to the point. He said what she should have said and it reminded me how awful it has been to have had a president who could not put two words together in a sentence for the past 8 years...