Blogcritics Comments on Obama's Race Problem

Comment by Franco on Obama's Race Problem

Tue, 13 May 2008 11:03:57 EDT

That is a cop out racist answer Zedd. It does not even come close to a rational responce to what I said. Here is the kicker. Everything I have said in this thread in every signal post are the words of black Americans, mostly black Christian men and women, living in the communities of South Central Los Angeles. The words that you read in my posts are not my words, they are theirs. The statistics I site in my posts are theirs, and it is their cultural insights I ascribe. I speak out about it because I know they are right. Sorry to see you disagree with them. At least you could have seen these words as black American encouragement from blacks to blacks, even though you see them as judgment when posted by a white man.

Comment by Zedd on Obama's Race Problem

Mon, 12 May 2008 20:56:12 EDT

Franco, I would be in heaven if racism was what you thought it was. Must be nice to live in your world. Aren't you precious.

Comment by Franco on Obama's Race Problem

Mon, 12 May 2008 19:23:57 EDT

#64 Clavos "What Franco is saying is almost exactly what Bill Cosby has been preaching to Black audiences for some time now. They are both right". #73 Zedd "Clav, re: #64, There is a difference between judgement and encouragement". According to the book of Zedd, when two people are saying the same thing, if one is white its judgment, if one is black its encouragement. Zedd, your racism in riveted in all your posts and shows in spades. Sadly it is one of the main reasons in holding back black Americans, which many blacks, and most whites would agree. I am just one white person not afaid to say so and won't be bullied by black racism into shutting up! You are the one who should be ashamed. And the sooner the better as all those black children who do not have responsible role models of character in the statistics sighted in my last post to Cindy sure want something to change. You can tell me to go to hell, I don't care, but stop fighting it for their sakes. Zedd, it is obvious to many that you hold such racist views that it locks up our resoning abilities to the point of intellectual dysfunction. It is sad as on commenter noted in another thread just recently, because you have what appears as an intelligent mind, its just not free to reach its potential due to the mental crippling of racism. If your could get over that disabling barrier, you could free your mind for its full potencial and you might just find the world you desperately want to find. As for your post #72, I'll just let it stand as a testiment to what I am saying.

Comment by Franco on Obama's Race Problem

Mon, 12 May 2008 18:12:42 EDT

Cindy You basically, in such an environment, are forced to join a gang for your own protection. And so it goes...generation after generation. If you were born in South Central Los Angeles the truth is you'd probably be a gang member. Why, because of your flawed character? No--because of your circumstance. I do not discount the seriousness of gangs. But I will not future discount the lives of those young kids in the face of those gangs either. And it's more then just gangs, but since you are attempting to use gangs to negate and belittle character as having no power in the face of these circumstances, lets talk about gangs. Gangs are made up of the hate filled victims of unfulfilled character development, these kids have been dejected, abused, abandoned and they are out of control and reeking havoc on all those who are struggling to fulfill character in their own kids. Eight percent of men in prison, of all races, come from single parent homes where the mother was the sole parent and the father either totally abandoned the family or played a minimal dyfuctional part and setting bad examples for the kids. Does this mean that women are not good parents? No!. What it means is how serious the results are when there is no strong loving male character for the child. The child has been cheated and feels cheated. A better word for it is unloved and feels unloved. The same is true of gangs. The circumstances being caused by the youth gangs you speak of, in fact exist as result of the overwhelming lack of strong character role models especially from the men. All people of all races have issues and problems and suffer from these dysfuctions in character. It is not that it is unique to black communities, what is unique to black comminutes is the numbers stand out disproportionally. Black Americans have by far the lowest rate of two-parent families in Southern California. Black Americans account for less than 10 percent of Los Angeles County's children, but fully half its foster children. Seventy percent of black children are born out of wedlock. Where are the responsible parent role models for all these children? Who is going to have to replace them? The window of time to address, introduce, and establish a solid pattern for character in the lives of kids is a small window of time. If there not worth that effort as in the case of your claim due to circumstances, I say you are a coward, scapegoat and enabler of gangs. If those kids are not worth risking everything for, then they well never feel worth anything. It's interesting to note that members of gangs try and exhibit all the attributes of strong character. Courage, providers and protectors of the family, protectors of turf, macho type head of their household, but its all built on faults principles. These are counterfeits, imposters, and lies trying to replace the real thing, which can never be replaced. I grew up in Los Angeles and I was a teenager when the 1965 riots broke out. I was also still living and working in Los Angeles when the 1992 riots broke out. When I was in high school I was a member of Young Life a Christian organization and we went to black church services in South Central LA. I have worked in South Central as well. Here is the kicker. Everything I have said in this thread in every signal post are the words of black Americans, mostly black Christian men and women, living in the communities of South Central Los Angeles. The words that you read in my posts are not my words, they are theirs. The statistics I site in my posts are theirs, and it is their cultural insights I ascribe. I speak out about it because I know they are right. They are making a difference and they are alarmed at all the kids being abandoned. I also know from personal first hand experience, as they do, that strong loving character role models (most importantly from the men, the fathers) has no substitute or equal in life. It takes courage, love, handwork and a deep commitment to see it through and it is a thankless job most of the time. It knows on economic lines, It knows no skin color, it knows no borders.

Comment by Zedd on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 23:58:46 EDT

Clav, re: #64 There is a difference between judgement and encouragement.

Comment by Zedd on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 23:05:09 EDT

Franco, "The biggest barrier for black Americans is no longer the law, white Americans, or black leaders. It is black Americans themselves. " How do you know this? In what part of your experience in this earth have you tested this? Franco, there are situations that we perceive from afar and watch in astonishment as to why people would allow horrors in their societies to take place. You are given a chance to see the horror and act but you remain staunch because of your fear, tininess and greed. Every generation in America has had the opportunity to respond with compassion towards African Americans and everyone has failed miserably. Your childish view of the world (by choice out of cowardliness) insulates you and keeps you timidly unengaged in reality, pointing figures at a people who live your worst distorted nightmare. Instead of expressing compassion, you lecture, all that from a position of complete ignorance. Like a child who believes he will be a zillionaire but doesn't understand what it takes to earn wealth in the real world, you lecture on what the obstacles are for African Americans. You should be embarrassed but you are not because deep down, you believe that whether you are right or wrong, it doesn't matter because the subject is about Blacks and no one cares. You would never pretend to have such knowledge about any other group on the globe. Shame on you. "But what makes it 10 times harder for black American kids, in a land of plenty, is the utter lack of positive character and positive examples to follow. You can not side step the colossal added advantage that these kids would receive form men of character - responsibility - courage - and looking inward. And that is what I am talking about." Like a person who doesn't think, you didn't process this statement. The child who will come out of this situation will grow if only he receives food. What will make him an example to anyone simply because he grew? Those that you would ask to be examples are those children only older. You however would tisk tisk at them because they dared grow without having the benefit of your experiences. You sir don't know what you are talking about. You lecture from complete ignorance. Your perceptions as to what should be are based on Hollywood, happy endings and nothing that human beings experience. You dare talk about slums in other countries and willfully ignore that history makes us who we are. Why? What are you afraid of? I will tell you. White is beneficial. You get a free ride for being White in America. You are not as hard working as you think you are. Life is easier for you and you being a grown man hates to admit it. You've got it easy. Whites have always had it easy compared to everyone else in America. Accept it and quit ducking.

Comment by Franco on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 11:45:45 EDT

#65 — bliffle One could preach the same thing to 'white' audiences. Yes they could, and yes they do. Since you thought it worthy of bringing it up, why don't you have a crack at it.

Comment by Clavos on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 10:44:12 EDT

One could preach the same thing to 'white' audiences. True, bliffle. I should have said "American" audiences; American parents are rapidly becoming the worst in the world, abdicating their parental responsibilities to the schools (also some of the worst in the world) and other government agencies.

Comment by Cindy D on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 10:06:44 EDT

ooops nevermind, I deleted the sentence

Comment by Cindy D on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 10:06:00 EDT

Sorry, I forgot the italics on the first sentence, i was quoting Franco.

Comment by Cindy D on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 10:03:13 EDT

Oh, BTW the 2nd quote, the one about black people giving back to their community instead of just coming to church to feel good. That quote was from a sermon by Jeremiah Wright. If you want to see Jeremiah Wright's infamous words IN context, you may do that here: Rev. Jeremiah Wright's words: Sound bite vs. sermon excerpt I mean, if you are going to attack someone's character, I would think you would want to rely on more than something someone else told you. Franco you say: ...the black kids born in South Central Los Angeles for example (who know no victimhood, anger or racist rage when they are born)... This is a perfect example of how you are ignoring what you claim to believe. First of all..."economic deprivation, social marginalization, and powerlessness exist cheek-by-jowl with extraordinary wealth, privilege, and opportunity. South-Central Los Angeles is a particularly concentrated focus of this crisis..." The Crisis of South-Central Los Angeles by Allen J. Scott -Poverty & Race Research Action Council The poor of South Central Los Angeles, when able to get work are mostly paid non-living wages, they have little or no healthcare and likely very little belief in their ability to realize any dream some super-rich white folk (their neighbors by the way) try to sell them. Now, I ask you--what do you think it might be like as a child to wake up in "gang land." Do you think you would be watching the Brady Bunch and dreaming about becoming a lawyer (in this land of such great opportunity for all! AMEN!)? Children who grow up in poverty and particularly those in a virtual combat zone of gangs, are very focused on their daily survival, they don't have the luxury of pulling hopeless American dreams out of their asses. You basically, in such an environment, are forced to join a gang for your own protection. And so it goes...generation after generation. This applies whether you are black, white, hispanic, mandarin orange, etc. So Franco, what were the circumstances of your birth? Basically, you grew up in a ghetto and your loving white parents had the good character to guide you through hell and out right? That is why you are, no doubt, a wonderful role model for truth, justice, and the American way. It's easy to have all the answers from your comfy middleclass abode. If you were born in South Central Los Angeles the truth is you'd probably be a gang member. Why, because of your flawed character? No--because of your circumstance. In fact judging by the way you, hook, line and sinker, swallow all the propaganda and idealized visions of your culture, you would like be a very successful gang member.

Comment by Cindy D on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 09:04:32 EDT

Franco, Did I say you used the words unmotivated or lazy? I need to open a "teach right-wingers to read program." By the way, MLK did not say that America didn't know God's name. I left that mistake in there to see if you actually look at anything that is outside your own skull.

Comment by bliffle on Obama's Race Problem

Sat, 10 May 2008 08:58:53 EDT

One could preach the same thing to 'white' audiences.

Comment by Clavos on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 23:26:23 EDT

What Franco is saying is almost exactly what Bill Cosby has been preaching to Black audiences for some time now. They are both right.

Comment by Franco on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 21:15:23 EDT

Cindy D I have been taking about black Americans (especially the men) taking control of their lives and doing right by their families and thus communities. You're stuck in a rut in another arena. I never once used the words unmotivated or lazy. I used the words character – responsibility – courage - and - looking inward and engaging their families and communities with these empowering attributes. I said victimhood, anger, and rage mentality does not help black Americans respect themselves as a people, it dose not help them respect others, and it dose not help others respect them. Note there are three directions of respect which all have to take place if we are going to solve these conflicts. Now, you have tried to culturally discredit me from speaking out on this issue. So please explain to me how my assertions of promoting black American character – responsibility – courage - and looking inward comes to constitute your assigning me to some cultural dysfunction I have that renders me unable or unqualified as a member for participating in one of these three directions of respect. Then you say............Do you really think a kid born in a ghetto has the same chances as a kid born in suburbia USA? As if I thought so. The ghettos of the world make it harder to get a decent start anywhere in the world. But what makes it 10 times harder for black American kids, in a land of plenty, is the utter lack of positive character and positive examples to follow. You can not side step the colossal added advantage that these kids would receive form men of character – responsibility – courage - and looking inward. And that is what I am talking about. Fight it all you want, side step it all you want, get out of taking about it, what ever, but the black kids born in South Central Los Angeles for example (who know no victimhood, anger or racist rage when they are born), would surly what changes to the following accounts that would other wise have a profoundly negative effect on their lives and their own self respect. Black American kids have to depend on black adults for their character development. So if black Americans adults have by far the lowest rate of two-parent families in Southern California and black Americans account for less than 10 percent of Los Angeles County's children, but fully half its foster children, and if seventy percent of black children are born out of wedlock, that's not going to help them find character – responsibility – courage - and looking inward. Nor is the celebration of drugs and perverse sex, glorified gangs, gang killings, degrading women, and killing cops that is rampid in rap music. If you can't acknowledge that Cindy D, which you haven't yet, then how am I to suppose that you even care about them. What these kids need are communities build by black men and women of character and starting right now right where they are. This is something you can't buy with money, the government can't hand it out to you, and it is not an exclusive right of any racial group in American or the world. Black Americans men and women need to take responsibly for their own character and solve these problems in their own families and communities. That alone would garner so much respect for blacks themsleves and with responsable whites in this country it would boggle the mind.

Comment by Cindy D on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 12:38:51 EDT

Correction: replace "straw man" with "scapegoat," which is more what I mean. But, I have a feeling there's a better word that I can't think of at the moment.

Comment by Cindy D on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 12:26:45 EDT

Franco: Here are a two excerpts from sermons given by black preachers. Now based on these snippets, please decide whom you admire and whom you despise. "God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place." "Unfortunately, most churches now are 'status quo.' And so that, to the extent that they're not trying to feed the poor, they're not trying to hook up jobs and people, they're not concerned about the lowest, the least, the left out. They're not concerned about the youth, they're concerned about 'Let me come here on a Sunday, hear something that tells me I'm ok, and I'm going to back to where I've been going. Don't rock the boat�'... How about the fact that we have pledged to take what we've got as black people and put it back into the black community? That's what I want to ask you�" What do you think about a preacher who says that America is arrogant. That it isn't America's business to police the world. And that America doesn't even know god's name? This preacher said those things. You cant judge jeremiah wright by reading headlines. You cant understand martin luther king by parroting the limited and sanitized mythology your culture finds it "permissible" for you to understand. You can't understand inequality by parroting what your culture tells you is ok to believe. "Interestingly, whites often deny the importance of racism in determining the life chances of blacks, even as they give voice to beliefs that are themselves evidence of the very racial prejudice they deny. So, for instance, in one of the more respected opinion surveys from the 1990s, six in ten whites said that discrimination was less important in determining the position of blacks in society, than the "fact" that blacks "just don't have the motivation or will power to pull themselves up out of poverty." But if most whites believe that blacks as a group are unmotivated or lazy, that is itself a racial generalization amounting to racism: ascribing a negative characterological trait to blacks as a group. Of course the irony should be apparent to all: on the one hand, whites are saying that blacks are lazy, but on the other they insist that racism--including the kind that holds African Americans in this low regard--would be of very little consequence to their ability to succeed; as if people imbued with that kind of bias would be able to fairly evaluate job applicants or students who were members of the presumed defective group!" From: (Proto)Typical White Denial: Reflections on Racism and Uncomfortable Realities By Tim Wise "I share nothing with slaveholders from the 1700's and 1800's in America other than skin color." Skin color which imbues the privilege of the dominant culture. A privilege that still exists. Do you really think a kid born in a ghetto has the same chances as a kid born in suburbia USA? Put down those headlines Franco and pick up some books on what you oppose. You can't see the whole picture if you never look at it.

Comment by Arch Conservative on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 08:56:04 EDT

"Mrs. Obama has within her the built up rage of centuries of oppression, rage just dying to get out, and she will express those views to the man who shares her bed, whether it is a bed in the White House or not. She is not proud to be an American either. She may hate white people or Jews or whomever. Her hatreds are her problem, not mine. But I suspect that under the hatred, she'd love to be proud of her country. For her it's home, after all." If that is the case then she is living in the past. She was never a slave. She never lived through the segragation and oppression of the late 19th early 20th century. She is angry about the experiences ofothers not of herself. There's no doubt that she may have suffered from some of the lingering extent but considering that she's making over 300k a year and her husband, a black man, is being taken seriously as presidential contender...I'd say the level of her anger and bitterness is way out of proportion. In a nutshell she's just another angry liberal, that happens to be black. There are plenty of reasons to be proud of America while still acknowledging our sins. Blind nationalist pride is wrong, national pride tempered with reason is a good thing. Angry, bitter, people like Michelle Obaam that are living in the past are not going to help the rest of us solve our problems...at least not through any reasonable and moderate means.

Comment by Ruvy on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 07:58:27 EDT

Bing, zing, Dan, not-so-obnoxious, Zedd, Stan, et alia, From the looks of things, Obama has got this thing sewn up, so I won't waste bandwidth on who will be the presumptive Democratic nominee. But this business about being proud of one's country is something I feel I should comment on. When I was a snot-nosed kid in Brooklyn many years ago, I was proud of being American - though in all honesty, I was far prouder of being a Brooklyn boy and of being from the biggest city on earth in the richest nation on earth, with the largest Jewish population on the planet. America came in about fourth place. Israel didn't even figure in my thoughts. I got my first real dose of questioning this mind-set when I was in 9th grade and I railed against the American government refusing to bomb Haiphong Harbor. I was very much of a hawk, and wanted to see a government as hawkish as I was. As the school year wore on, I realized that the American government was not out to win a war, but only to contain an enemy. Even when I was that young, I understood clearly that containment, unless extremely aggressive, was a failing policy. I finally came to the conclusion that the United States was wasting blood and money in Vietnam, the position I held for a decade, until the Americans fled in disarray from Saigon in 1975. I was convinced that the Americans would be defeated, and defeated they were. My views had nothing to do with morality (well, they did, in the sense that it is immoral to waste lives uselessly) or being anti-war or all that garbage. And I never viewed our soldiers there as baby-killers. My friends got sent there ultimately, and it was only G-d's grace that did not put me in the death lottery to go to Nam. I was slow, stupid and na�ve, and Charley would have blown me to bits before I would have been able to say Dien Bien Phu. But, watching the Americans invade the Dominican Republic because they did not like the president there, watching as they set up Salvador Allende for death while doing nothing to help a country under existential threat (Israel, May 1967), while they sat on their hands, as Greek colonels destroyed what little democracy the Kingdom of Greece had, gave me a very different view of America. I was no longer proud to be an American. After cutting my ties to New York in 1979, I could no longer even be proud to be a Brooklyn boy or a New Yorker. Mrs. Obama has within her the built up rage of centuries of oppression, rage just dying to get out, and she will express those views to the man who shares her bed, whether it is a bed in the White House or not. She is not proud to be an American either. She may hate white people or Jews or whomever. Her hatreds are her problem, not mine. But I suspect that under the hatred, she'd love to be proud of her country. For her it's home, after all. By contrast, her husband is a white boy in black skin raised overseas by folks who did not really share the black American experience. Looking at all this objectively, that is Obama's strongest point in his favor. Barack Hussein Obama, whatever his other views are, does not carry within him the hatred of white people that is centuries old, based on centuries of oppression. If it weren't for the Wahhabi hiding under Islam's robes, carrying on a crusade against all the kaffir (as Moslems mean the word, not Boers), if it weren't for America being stuck in the quicksand of Iraq, if it weren't for the Americans being in the grip of a greedy oil and bank establishment determined to impoverish Americans (as well as the rest of the world) Obama would still be the best candidate for Americans - simply because he has the capability to do something about the cross of racism that has been America's burden since its slavery days. Now bringing all this to where I live now, you all know from my writing, that while I'm damned proud of all that Israel has accomplished in sixty years, I also want to see the regime here strung up by the neck and hung for treason against the Jewish people. In other words, I'm proud of the Jewish entity here and all that we have accomplished - but I have no pride in the State of Israel at all. Like Obama's wife's attitude towards America, I wish I could be proud of the State - but I can't be. I guess you take what you can in life and learn to live with the cards dealt you. Pride of one's government does not appear to have been in any of the hands I've been dealt.

Comment by troll on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 07:55:50 EDT

'noxious et al - as one who advocates the vigilante based eradication of all beliefs and actions that result in differences [intraracial breeding...ethnic pride etc] whose utopia is the amorphous humanoid borgish blob I ask: what are the virtues of nationalism - ?

Comment by mike O on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 07:40:24 EDT

BLACKS STICK TOGETHER. IF WHITES STUCK TOGETHER OBAMA WOULD NOT BE WHERE HE IS TODAY. CASE CLOSED

Comment by Arch Conservative on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 07:20:17 EDT

We all get heaping doses of opinion and rhetoric on this site so her'es a little objective red meat...links to on the issues for both Mccain and Obama's voting records...

Comment by Arch Conservative on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 07:15:50 EDT

To be fair I should have also included the thought....there will be voting for Obama because they agree with his politics that will be labelled as racists by other small minded people.

Comment by Arch Conservative on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 07:13:33 EDT

When it's all said and done there are going to people voting for and against Obama for no other reason than his race and that is pretty sad. There will alsoo be people who vote against Obama because they do not agree with his politics who will be labelled as racists by other small minded people. I truly believe at heart that this nation is slightly right of center and that Obama is too far to the left to win it all. He can try tacking to the center as much as he wants during the general but the GOP will not miss oppourtunity to reveal who Barry truly is. It's like Zell Miller said.........."campaign promises let you know who a candidates wants you to THINK they are, their voting record tells you who they REALLY are." Amid all the campaign promises from both Barry and John all one really has to do is look at both of their records and much to the chagrin of many conservatives, Mccain is truly more moderate than Obama who is to the far left.

Comment by Zedd on Obama's Race Problem

Fri, 9 May 2008 06:47:33 EDT

Doug, People's view on wealth redistribution depends greatly on whether they believe they'll be the distributee or the distributor. That is not true Doug. Some people are motivated by just doing the right thing. I think most people vote on what makes sense to them or what makes them feel good. Also the notion of Republicans being against a socialist system hasn't proven to be true. Today's Reps are so by theory only. What they purport exists only in theory. Reps tax and spend more than Dems. We all know that to be a fact, however Rep affiliates swear that fiscal responsibility is the reason for their attachment to that party. When the affiliation is clearly emotional.