Too many of the Paul faction seem to be ideologues (because we set high goals like honesty and integrity) and fanatics, (because we are aware of the current potential disaster that awaits us if we elect another puppet) driven by radical beliefs (like the fed printing money out of thin air is bad) and paranoid fantasies. (like the MSM is corrupt, etc...)" - Dave Nalle

Oh, you've been working for years to change the party back to libertarian like values? How was that going? The time for nicey nice is OVER! You are an idiot.

We will stay the course. The strategy is working. The real blow-back we are seeing here locally is against the GOP. The rank-and-file members are not happy about the Party tightening the screws and turning delegates into observers. This is causing many people to align with us, even if they didn't support Ron Paul in the primary.

The GOP needs us if they want to win the general elections.

Ron Paul supporter have been playing by the rules. This is a republic and we are not going anywhere.

We will stay the course. The strategy is working.

Now where have we heard that before...?

How many caucus, BPOU, CD conventions, or State conventions have you personally attended? I have and am a delegate, chair and intend to run for State House. I have been a voting Republican for 30 years. Our Ron Paul supporters have followed ALL the GOP party rules, Roberts Rules of Order at every level. The election system is set up so participating members get to make the decisions. Every McCain, Romney, Huckabee supporter in Minnesota had 100% the same opportunities we Ron Paul supporters had. They just chose to stay home and watch a rerun of "Friends".

Your article is full of false accusations, misrepresentations of the facts. I have attended each level of the election process. Ron Paul groups were welcome by the GOP until the state level. The presidential process is a grass roots system and works very appropriately. Over the last 3 months of conventions in our area McCain, Romney and Huckabee delegate supporters have turned into Ron Paul supporters. The tide is shifting away from McCain and National GOP is trying to suppress the grassroots will of delegates properly seated within the rule of law who chose to support Ron Paul.


Chaos is not an appropriate description of the events. Another correction is Minnesota elected 12 or 14 Ron Paul delegates of the 24 delegates to national from the 8 congressional Districts.

I am a RP supporter and I'm not paranoid, a pothead, a lunatic, or a fringe radical. These are just a few of the nicer names we've been called. I watched video of the NV GOP convention and I didn't see the Ron Paul people causing problems. What I saw was a very vocal group of people that have strong beliefs. They were following all the rules set fourth. The GOP chairman and McCain supporters were the ones being disruptive and eventual walked out bringing the convention to a screeching halt just because they couldn't legally stop what was going on. The leadership of the GOP obviously doesn't like disruptions to their little kingdom. They allow us peasants to pretend like we have a voice in the party until we try to exercise it.

"Some of us have been working for decades to return the GOP to its traditional libertarian values, and to take control away from the statists and the religious right."

Yeah, and as Dr. Phil says, "How's that workin' for ya?" Not very well. Meanwhile the Paulites have, within LESS THAN A YEAR, taken over countless counties and are on the verge of taking over several state GOPs.

As other replies have pointed out, we are working WITHIN THE SYSTEM and are FOLLOWING THE RULES. I note that your blather about "ideologues and fanatics, driven by radical beliefs and paranoid fantasies" isn't buttressed by a SINGLE example. I don't deny that some RP supporters fit those descriptions, but that can be said about Obama, Clinton, McCain, etc. just as easily. And at least in my county, those folks fit the "fringe" stereotype so well that they don't even PARTICIPATE in the official GOP functions :-).

A couple of points.

Bo. You're charmingly naive, but naivete ceases to be charming when it becomes a political movement.

I'm interested to see several people here saying they're going to stick with the GOP whatever happens. That's not something I've been hearing from Ron Paul supporters before this. Up until this point the party line has been that if Paul doesn't get the nomination they'll leave the party and vote for Obama or the libertarian candidate or not vote at all.

And a general point.

What the Ron Paul supporters seem not to get is that you can agree with them and with Ron Paul himself on the importance of the Constitution and agree with them on basic libertarian values and still be extremely uncomfortable with support for the agenda of the John Birch Society and acceptance of a variety of conspiracy theories as legitimate.

Clearly some people are able to overlook the craziness and just see the positive of the Ron Paul movement, but for a lot of us the craziness puts everything else in doubt. It is as hard for some of us to accept as part of the movement to reform the GOP nativism and protectionism as it is for others to support the belief in missionary libertarianism and setting free the people of the world.

Dave

How many caucus, BPOU, CD conventions, or State conventions have you personally is attended?

This year or in total? GOP or Libertarian or both?

I have and am a delegate, chair and intend to run for State House.

I'm an alternate, but expect to get seated as a delegate and have been a delegate before. I ran for state house in 2002.

I have been a voting Republican for 30 years.

31 years for me.

Our Ron Paul supporters have followed ALL the GOP party rules, Roberts Rules of Order at every level. The election system is set up so participating members get to make the decisions. Every McCain, Romney, Huckabee supporter in Minnesota had 100% the same opportunities we Ron Paul supporters had. They just chose to stay home and watch a rerun of "Friends".

I believe I said something very much like this in the article to explain why the Paul faction has been able to come on so strong. And I didn't say that they haven't followed the rules. Perhaps you didn't read the article. But whether they use the rules or not, taking over conventions and kicking out other elements of the party completely builds ill will.

Your article is full of false accusations, misrepresentations of the facts. I have attended each level of the election process.

Perhaps, but you're clearly not at all familiar with how things have gone in other states. That's why I do something called research when I write these articles and provide them new fangled hyperlinks so you can expand your knowledge beyond Minnesota as I have done.

Ron Paul groups were welcome by the GOP until the state level..

Actually, here in Texas hostility began at the district level. Go use the links to my prior articles.

The presidential process is a grass roots system and works very appropriately. Over the last 3 months of conventions in our area McCain, Romney and Huckabee delegate supporters have turned into Ron Paul supporters. The tide is shifting away from McCain and National GOP is trying to suppress the grassroots will of delegates properly seated within the rule of law who chose to support Ron Paul.

Utter bullshit. I've actually talked to hundreds of Ron Paul supporters. Almost none of them ever supported any other candidate and a good portion fo them never voted before this election or came straight over from the LP.

Chaos is not an appropriate description of the events.

Note that I didn't say a word about it being a description of events in Minnesota, but it certainly applies to Maine, Nevada and Texas.

Another correction is Minnesota elected 12 or 14 Ron Paul delegates of the 24 delegates to national from the 8 congressional Districts.

How is that a correction? It's exactly what I said in the article.

Before you start throwing accusations of errors around you might want to actually read the article you're responding to.

Dave

Dave

I was at the Nevada State Republican Convention. I was involved in the process leading up to it. Our strategy amounted to reading Robert's Rules of Order, reading the proposed convention rules as espoused by the Party leadership, and showing up. There was no attempted "takeover". We were motivated, excited to participate in the process, and everyone else stayed home.

Before the party leadership illegally recessed the convention without a discussion or a vote we managed to elect 7 out of the first 9 delegates to the national convention. We were on our way to capturing 80% to 90% of Nevada's entire slate of delegates (31).

The main problem is that the Republican Party leadership is not well acquainted with people expressing contrary opinions. The leaders I've come in contact with are incredibly uncomfortable with any individual standing up and saying, "Mr. Chairman, Point of Order" or "Mr Chairman, Point of Inquiry".

What the Republican Party leadership likes to see is a well managed convention with zero discussion or debate. The problem is that there is no way Ron Paul supporters will win any delegates, or change anyone's mind on any issue if we do not open up the convention process to allow contrary opinions.

The Party Establishment in Nevada seemed shocked that a supermajority of delegates might actually want a fair and honest method of selecting delegates to the National Convention, rather than to rely on a handful of people in a nominations committee.

I ask you: What is the point of attending any precinct caucus in the entire country if the whole thing is rigged at the State Convention? Why even go to a State convention if the only thing you do is listen to a few boring speeches, pray to God, and salute the flag? That's not the point of a convention. The point of a convention is to decide how the party will operate, and what the goals will be until the next convention. This requires debate, discussion, and sometimes results in conflict. And in the long term it is good for the Republican Party.

Nicely said Jason.

I'm an American and our country is all about throwing out leadership that's not working for us. I will vote my conscious not who I'm told to vote for by the party. For years I've ether not voted or voted for the lesser of 2 evils. People that strongly support Paul do it because he is a man that does walk the walk. It's not just the man, it's what he represents. He is what most politicians should be but aren't. Our Government is failing the people and it needs to change very soon or we won't have a country.

Dave,

P.T. Barnum would be proud; if only he could be here. Whether he would prefer the Democrat or Republican circus is a question to which we will never know the answer.

I favor many of the ideals espoused by the libertarians, and hope to see them implemented. The problem is that we have gone way too far in the wrong direction for draconian changes to take place immediately.

Compare England and France: France had no significant social reforms, gradual or otherwise, and its revolution with Dr. Guillotine's wonderful device and all that stuff to produce instant change resulted. England chose a saner route, with gradual change which eventually brought about useful reforms helpful to most. Here, I speak of England a long time ago; it seems to have gone to hell in a hand basket in recent years, but that's a different problem.

Dan

I think one of the chief errors in the above piece is the accusation that causing disruptions was part of our strategy. Disrupting the conventions would be counterproductive. Our pleas for fairness and our insistence on following the rules are interpreted as disruptions by those who would wrong us. When our people speak out, no matter how calmly, politely, or eloquently, it is considered a disruption because we're rocking the sinking boat that is the GOP.

There's no way that being low-key would be more successful than the current strategy. Paul supporters aren't becoming delegates to make GOP friends or gain political power. They are becoming delegates to be a voice for traditional republicans. You know, those pesky kooky types that believe in small government, low spending, civil liberties, and non-intervention.

"Paul supporters have done very well in states which use this approach, taking half of the 12 available delegate slots in Minnesota and a...."

The actual delegate is 12 to 14 of 24, ok your right on the 50% but not the total delegates. We each get a point here.

"This sort of representation, out of proportion to Paul's actual standing in the popular vote in those states, is made possible because Paul's supporters are highly motivated...."

So your solution for Minnesota would be? Minnesota elects unbound national delegates. On election day (super Tuesday) McCain failed to get 78% of the voters support, yet Minnesota is supposed to bend over to the national GOP demand to vote for McCain.

And in Minnesota there are Romney and Huckabee folks who changed to Ron Paul as they distruct McCain.

I also read many stories,listen to and watch video of the proceedings, educate myself of the delegate process around the country. I just do not agree with your prespective of events and diagnosis. Is there not room for diverse views of the same quarter here?

I was at the Nevada State Republican Convention. I was involved in the process leading up to it. Our strategy amounted to reading Robert's Rules of Order, reading the proposed convention rules as espoused by the Party leadership, and showing up. There was no attempted "takeover". We were motivated, excited to participate in the process, and everyone else stayed home.

That's a bit disingenuous. Is it not true that you forced a vote to throw out all the recommendations of the nominating committee and take entirely new delegate nominations from the floor? That's what multiple media sources have reported happened. That's a takeover.

I'm also quite familiar with what has happened at other conventions and the techniques used, and they seem to be the same ones employed in Nevada, which is basically to dominate debate from the floor, force a vote and then take over the convention. Which is fine up to a point, except then it turns into mob/majority rule and the result is that even if the Ron Paul folks are only 40% of the delegates plus a few random people who vote along with them, everyone else gets shut out and all the delegates go to Paul.

Not only is this what has happened at other conventions, if you go on the various Ron Paul discussion sites, it is clearly the planned strategy, so don't tell me you had something else in mind. You yourself admitted that the moment you got hold of the nominating process it was mostly just Ron Paul people getting nominated.

Before the party leadership illegally recessed the convention without a discussion or a vote we managed to elect 7 out of the first 9 delegates to the national convention. We were on our way to capturing 80% to 90% of Nevada's entire slate of delegates (31).

See, you make my point for me. From all accounts Ron Paul supporters were far less than 80% or 90% of the delegates at the convention, and Paul certainly didn't get 80% or more of the votes in the primary, so you're seizing control of the process and producing a result which is unfair and unrepresentative. It's not surprising that many have called the techniques used by Paul supporter fascistic.

The main problem is that the Republican Party leadership is not well acquainted with people expressing contrary opinions. The leaders I've come in contact with are incredibly uncomfortable with any individual standing up and saying, "Mr. Chairman, Point of Order" or "Mr Chairman, Point of Inquiry".

I don't give a rat's ass if you make the leaders uncomfortable. What I'm concerned about is the average delegates who you have shut out of the process and the primary voters whose intent is no longer represented once the Paul faction takes over.

The problem is that there is no way Ron Paul supporters will win any delegates, or change anyone's mind on any issue if we do not open up the convention process to allow contrary opinions.

Until your own actions motivated crackdowns at these conventions they all had procedures for participation by the delegates, from the opportunity to appear before various committee or to be on those committees to provisions for proposals from the floor. You guys pushed the leadership into a corner and generated the clampdown which you are now complaining about.

I ask you: What is the point of attending any precinct caucus in the entire country if the whole thing is rigged at the State Convention? Why even go to a State convention if the only thing you do is listen to a few boring speeches, pray to God, and salute the flag? That's not the point of a convention. The point of a convention is to decide how the party will operate, and what the goals will be until the next convention. This requires debate, discussion, and sometimes results in conflict. And in the long term it is good for the Republican Party.

And because you Paul supporters are all conflict with no interest in debate, discussion or participation you guarantee that none of the positive things you and I both agree should be part of a convention will happen. What would be good for the Republican Party would be libertarian activists who are actually interested in changing the party constructively rather than disruption and destruction.

Dave

There's no way that being low-key would be more successful than the current strategy.

Since the current strategy is going to result in total disaster and a resurgence of the religious right, almost anything would be better.

Paul supporters aren't becoming delegates to make GOP friends or gain political power. They are becoming delegates to be a voice for traditional republicans. You know, those pesky kooky types that believe in small government, low spending, civil liberties, and non-intervention.

Speaking as one of those traditional Republicans I don't see how my voice is effectively expressed by creating a situation in which party leaders silence me along with the Ron Paul supporters.

Dave

All:

Dave is a shill for the establishment. He calls people names to get attention, even if he has never met them and does not know them.

The fact that he is so vitriolic toward Ron Paul and the John Birch Society speaks volumes. The establishment will only bother to attack leaders in the fight to restore liberty if they are effective. So if Dave calls you an unsavory name, consider it a compliment and keep up the good work!

Dave really wants a seat at the establishment table, to be a guy like CFR member Tom Braden. Before Ron Paul, there was a 5 term Democrat from Georgia in Congress with the exact same platform as Dr. Paul. Go to youtube.com and search for congressman "Larry McDonald" and watch a 1983 "Crossfire" episode from CNN with Dr. McDonald, Pat Buchanan and CFR member Tom Braden.

Well Dave I have to repeat something that was already said. What's the point of the conventions if this isn't part of the process and it's all said and done? We are talking about electing delegates to the national convention, not who the president will be. If those delegates are lawfully obliged to vote for McCain the 1st round they will.
I like how you blame RP supporters for the GOP clamping down on everyone. I think they would do it to anyone that's disagreeing with them.

"Since the current strategy is going to result in total disaster and a resurgence of the religious right, almost anything would be better."

I thought we were the paranoids?

" ...leaves the party weaker than it needs to be to face the real threat in November."

'the real threat' hasn't waited for November. The real threat to the Republican party is its entrenched leadership that does not respect the platform, or traditional conservative values. The Republican party is already weak compared to the Democratic party. Ron Paul has provided a badly needed boost in party membership and participation. If the Republican party shuns these Ron Paul Republicans, they will continue to lose ground to the Democrats. I've personally seen former party loyalists come around to Ron Paul. Here in Pennsylvania, our primary is finished, but Ron is *still* winning hearts and minds. Loyalty to the constitution and to what his right should come before party loyalty. McCain simply can not win the presidency. Conservatives will not vote for him. Seeing that the vast majority of the public wants to end the wars in the middle east, Ron Paul is the only Republican with a(albeit small) chance to win the general election. Democratic party loyalists will also be disappointed if Hillary gets the nomination, and their calls for party unity fall on deaf ears. Without a good third party candidate, and Hillary as the Democratic nominee, I suspect a very low turnout in November. If Obama gets the nod(and he should), he will win easily. Maybe a miracle will happen at the Republican convention, and many party loyalists will realize that McCain can't win. Romney may have a chance to win. Huckabee has no chance. Come to think of it, maybe the collapsing dollar will get Ron Paul enough support for a coup at the convention. One can hope...

"Your article is full of false accusations, misrepresentations of the facts. I have attended each level of the election."

Then Davey responded with an astonishing revealing statement! He said:

"Perhaps, but you're clearly not at all familiar with how things have gone in other states".

Just to make my point, Dave are you actually you actually saying that PERHAPS your article is full of false accusations and misrepresentations? My oh my I am amazed at you frankness, and you being so candid as to admit the OBVIOUS.

Thanks bubba. I can only continue to hope that the Paulites ruin your party completely and utterly, just a sweet dream that I have.

You Go Doctor!!

Perhaps, but you're clearly not at all familiar with how things have gone in other states."

Robert said:
"Dave is a shill for the establishment."

"Dave really wants a seat at the establishment table, to be a guy like CFR member Tom Braden. Before Ron Paul, there was a 5 term Democrat from Georgia in Congress with the exact same platform as Dr. Paul. Go to youtube.com and search for congressman "Larry McDonald" and watch a 1983 "Crossfire" episode from CNN with Dr. McDonald, Pat Buchanan and CFR member Tom Braden."

Davey a shill? How paranoid (smirk). You can fool all your cute friends Davey, but those of us that are familiar with your shenanigans know what your really about. You adore the CIA and the CFR. Your candidate of choice is a lifetime member of the CFR. In a similar way that many zionists accuse anyone who criticizes Israel with the smear of being anti-semitic, you do the same by trying to characterize those the love liberty, freedom and a constitutional republic ala the JBS, with racism. It doesn't wash Dave, and the more you write the more you reveal yourself for the shill that you are.

You talk liberty out of one side of your mouth, the other you side on the tin pot dictators, the globalists, the 9/11 commission, terrorizing other countries with military juntas, etc. The list goes on and on Davey. We know who you are and what your about, and it sure aint liberty baby.

At least the Conventions are not boring!

Great that the Ron Paul people are interested enough to kick up some dust!

It's about time some Americans showed up to straighten out the corruption.

I love it!

Hey- not only are The Ron Paul people picking up delegates, a lot are running for Congress!

Here are some from New York State.

Dave - Your inflammatory rhetoric aside, you have no idea what happened in Nevada if you think we were disruptive. In fact, we persuaded the vast majority of delegates to make a rule change that opened up the nomination process. And we showed up. And considering the fact that Ron Paul got more support in NV than John McCain, who has never bothered to show in our state, I don't understand why the result was so surprising.

We show up. And we appeal to fairness. Horror of horrors. And about you trying to bring the R party back to its libertarian ideals, who is in fantasy land now?

Brian Kominsky
Clark County Nevada Coordinator
Ron Paul 2008

I won't have used the word "chaos" - kinda implies a Jerry Springer episode gone haywire. Nothing like that has happened due to Ron Paul supporters engaging in the Rule of Law process.

Of course there is going to be "conflict". McCain's thought process and platform (as is the current GOP neocon leadership's) is as far from a true Republican stance as you can get.

I've meet some of the John Birch guys and quite frankly they don't scare me half as much as Dick Chenney.

And

I don't get your reference to "anarcho-socialist infiltrators" - certainly you are NOT referring to Ron Paul supporters / delegates. I'm just a normal house-mom who is living in the real world of budgeting. Ron Paul is the only candidate whose proposed budget actually makes sense. Also he is the only candidate who has a twenty year consistent track record regarding a foreign policy of non-intervention.

Unlike the other egomaniacal candidates in this election, it is not about Ron Paul. (I actually think he would prefer to NOT be President.) It's about Americans waking up and taking responsibility for the god awful mess our country is in. The Ron Paul supporters are taking this to heart.

I highly doubt that if Ron Paul is not on the ballot that his supporters will jump ship and vote for Obama or Clinton as you suggest. If you are a Ron Paul supporter the reason why you are so hell bent in seeing him get the nomination is that you realize THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANY OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES. Mcain, Obama, Clinton. Its like choosing between Vanilla, Chocolate, and Strawberry ice cream when we need MEAT not sugary filler.

Pablo, You must be one of the millions of American students who had the misfortune to be taught (or not taught, actually) how to read in the American school system.

Tim in Minnesota wrote,

Your article is full of false accusations, misrepresentations of the facts. I have attended each level of the election process.

To which Dave replied,

Perhaps, but you're clearly not at all familiar with how things have gone in other states.

Which clearly (to anyone who can actually read), is in response to Tim's second sentence, I have attended each level of the election process.

Yet you, in your haste and eagerness to try and get the better of Dave (a new thrill for you), actually made a fool of yourself and revealed the paucity of your own reading "skills" by saying,

Then Davey responded with an astonishing revealing statement! He said:

"Perhaps, but you're clearly not at all familiar with how things have gone in other states".

Just to make my point, Dave are you actually you actually saying that PERHAPS your article is full of false accusations and misrepresentations? My oh my I am amazed at you frankness, and you being so candid as to admit the OBVIOUS.

What delicious irony! Hoist with your own petard!

Ah, Pablo, thanks so much for the amusement!

O, frabjous day!

Dave:

I hear what you are saying, and we tried your "get along" tactics at the Michigan Republican convention. We asked for 3 of the at large delegates to be given to Ron Paul. They wouldn't even give us one, and the main stick in the mud was Saul Anuizus, the state Republican chair, who you may remember as the fellow that tried to get Paul banned from the debates.

I can't speak for other states, but here in Michigan, it is crystal clear the only tactic that will work is hijacking the party.

I also hear what you're saying, Jeff. I think that some state parties are much worse than others or dominated by small factions of the worst element within the GOP.

I can't say how it might have gone in Michigan, but my experience has been that in other states there are many regular GOP folks who feel as alienated and disenfranchised by party leadership which represents only a small faction of the party and they'd like to reach out to Ron Paul supporters and work with them.

I've got no problem with party leaders who have no interest in change and progress being cast down, but I hate to see the rank and file of the party disenfranchised and alienated in the process.

Dave

You adore the CIA and the CFR. Your candidate of choice is a lifetime member of the CFR.

I voted for Ron Paul. Are you telling me he's a lifetime CFR member now?

Actually, I'm completely indifferent to the CFR. I don't agree with a lot of their policy suggestions but I realize they have very little power.

You talk liberty out of one side of your mouth, the other you side on the tin pot dictators,

I suppose that's a fair call. I do think that a benevolent, capitalist dictatoriship is one of the best ways to transition from tribalism or communism to a more equitable form of government.

the globalists,

Which globalists? The Birchers seem to be global these days. Very popular in the Netherlands and England.

the 9/11 commission,

Yes, I do think reality is better than fantasy.

terrorizing other countries with military juntas, etc.

What, you LIKE countries with military juntas?

Dave

Dave - Your inflammatory rhetoric aside, you have no idea what happened in Nevada if you think we were disruptive.

Brian, read the damned article. I put the word 'disruptive' in quotes (see, I did it again), indicating that it was not my opinion or a statement of fact, but as clearly stated in that paragraph, it was the characterization of the behavior of Paul supporters by party leaders.

In fact, we persuaded the vast majority of delegates to make a rule change that opened up the nomination process. And we showed up. And considering the fact that Ron Paul got more support in NV than John McCain, who has never bothered to show in our state, I don't understand why the result was so surprising.

The result was the shutting down of the convention, or am I mistaken about that? Did you get a lot of positive resolutions passed to send on to the national convention?

Dave

Dave, you suck your master's.

Lack the balls to finish that sentence, do you?

I'm no man's master and no man's slave, Tut. I'm also not a slave to ignorance and paranoia. Can you say as much?

Dave

Another big yawn for Davey. And for Clavos surely you can do better than that, your pettiness never ceases to amaze me. Instead of talking on the issues of the day you come crawling to Dave's aid, like a puppy dog. I am starting to wonder if your relationship with him is really platonic, as it seems like you adore him. I dont.

In your case, I don't have to do better, Pablo, you stumble into making a fool of yourself all on your own; lurching through these threads like a demented, bipolar paranoid schizophrenic street preacher.

You are your own worst enemy, Pablo.

"Attempted takeovers?" Is that we're calling democracy these days? Let the people speak. More importantly, let the people be heard. It's really a shame how the media has let us all down. They had so much potential.

Drumz, you can't use Democracy as an excuse for silencing the minority. What did Jefferson say?

"Bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

The bottom line here is the GOP has turned into a communistic party. I mean is there any other way to define this? When your ramming the delegates and the platform down the throats of the convention participants? How is it any different than a twice appointed president dictating to the Congress and the people. you've got the presumptive nominee telling town halls that we will be in Iraq for 100 years whether the people like it or not? That's not democracy. The gloves are coming off. As even the thickest military and GOP faithful realize this a self evident then the blood will flow. And high time I say! The neo conservatives seem addicted to the flow of blood unless it's their own. Once that starts their true colors come through and they're shown for the cowards that they are...Keep pushing the true conservative platform and Dr Paul I've lost my taste for fascist dictators!

Dave, this is a revolution. It takes a few brave men and women. USofA is bankrupt and the Fed is printing money out of thin air, putting the 3 billion of the world's poor at risk due to record monetary inflation. Something has to be done.

It also seems that John McCain had his name in the DC Madams phone book along with Dick Cheney. Now she's dead? In an election year no less..wonder who else will be suicided before this all unfolds?
Ron Paul isn't in anyones black book unless they're in need of an obstetrician or an honest politician!

Keith - Do you have any proof tha McCain's name was in the Madams phone book...or are you just spouting typical bullshit?

I have a link right here and I don't see McCains name on it anywhere...could you maybe point it out to me?

Isn't it about time to give up on trying to reason with the pod people? It's pointless. They aren't interested in anything but anarchy and destroying the GOP.

The Democrats and the Republicans are more interested in serving their party rather than the America people. In my opinion it wouldn't be bad if they both get destroyed.

You may have a point about the uselessness of trying to reason with the more extreme Paul supporters - who seem to be the most active on the net. There's something I can't quite put my finger on about their psychopathology which makes them completely impervious to any kind of ideas outside of their limited comfort zone.

Dave

So because we disagree on politics, Ron Paul supporters are crazy? We have mental disorders because we have a strong opinion on how our country is run and how our tax money is spent?

Interesting diagnosis "Dr" Nalle.

Dave,

Why not have a primary then? What's the point in having a caucus if the whole process is a joke?

It's always a little unsettling to feel like the "Ron Paul" Republicans are a bunch of weirdos. The neocons are the real weirdos living in their fantasy world, which happens to be our reality now. There is no need to be in their game! I really do hope Ron Paul and his message cuts thru the GOP. It's sad though that when people do try to have power and control their lives, like this country was set up to be, they get shut down or worst. That is sad.

Do yourself a favor though and read Ron Paul's new book!

I'm of the opinion that the neocons and the more fanatical of Paul's followers are BOTH weirdos. Just different brands.

And for Richard:

So because we disagree on politics, Ron Paul supporters are crazy? We have mental disorders because we have a strong opinion on how our country is run and how our tax money is spent?

No, you're crazy because you believe fanatically in paranoid fantasies which have no basis in reality.

Dave

Dave: Thanks for the link to the young man from Maine. His blog post was fun to read, and helped prepare me mentally for the Texas GOP convention.

Where I hope people who support liberty and also understand how to gain power within an organization prevail. (Slowly, stealthily, quietly ... then wham! a new silent majority takes the reins!)

I'd certainly like to see some decent representation for the libertarian perspective come out of the Texas convention. I'll be there doing what I can - but for real Libertarian values, not for Ron Paul or for the twisted agenda of the JBS.

I do still think that a lot more would be accomplished with an honest and less confrontational approach.

Dave

marion barry?

One of my political heroes. Surely you revere him too?

Dave

ahh, you switched it. i'm no big fan of marion barry, although i do respect his ability to smoke crack AND get reelected. shit, i can barely stand up when i smoke crack. he must have inspired some love.

but why... why the marion barry nickname?

I wrote a flippant comment under that name a week or so ago suggesting that 'free crack and hos' was always a winning political platform, and it was on a computer I rarely use which remembered the name and kept putting it on comments the next time I used it, until I caught it and stopped it.

Dave

ahh, fair enough.

I was going to write a retort to your little jab but then I remembered .... You're just a blogger! Have a nice day Dave.

Amazing article filled with unbelievable rhetoric and lies, but then I read he is a capital hill staffer. What did I expect from the administration and congress that lie continually along with all the so called candidates, the worst batch in history. Of course their staffers would be screened for their lack of integrity and truthfulness.

Ron Paul supporters faced a GOP that broke all their own rules regarding the conventions and thus were forced to fight back, well good for them. Its better than the whimps who sit around like the Congressional staffers do and don't have any principles to stand up for. I am glad Ron Paul supporters have the spunk and the gall and the courage to face down the power structure.

Does it need it??? JUST CHECK OUT THE CURRENT CONDITION OF THIS COUNTRY AND YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER. ITS GOING DOWN HILL RAPIDLY, if you don't believe me just go to the currency trading desk, go to the gas station and to the food store and see if you can buy anything you want and at a price even resembling what it was 6 months ago.

GET AWAKE WILL YA???? Your ignorance is killing our country.

Ron Paul is still in the Presidential Race for 2008. We as registered voters, have the 'Right' to vote for Ron Paul if we wish to. The GOP must understand that they are NOT God! If we do not want to vote for McCain, we won't! Ron Paul is our man!

Dave, your comment above about "paranoid fantasies" are coming home to roost. We are seeing it live as we watch. Currency is devaluing, debt is out of site, land confiscation under eminent domain is at record levels, food prices and scarsity is growing, oil is at record levels, Fed reserve now admits manipulating the gold and stock markets...... COME ON, YOUR IN DENIAL.

ITS CALLED "COGNITIVE DISSONANCE" that is when your internal "perceptions" do match your external reality, so you either deny, rationalize, justify, excuse or otherwise go crazy. It appears you are chosing all of the above and using Ron paul and his supporters as scape goats for your inability to reconcile what is currently going down with what you WANT to be the reality of today. Too bad, your simply going to have to grow up and face it and find some damn courage will ya????

Or at least find some integrity.

Dave, here is your hero, McCain in full swing action........ now tell me again about RP supporters being paranoid????? hahahaha

You really must face reality of this man and his agenda for globalizing through population relocation activities. He is another puppet. He has a CFR advisor on his campaign staff. Wake up and smell the treason and I am not even a Ron Paul supporter...... I supported Romney. LOL

But, as a registered republican I WILL NOT SUPPORT THE TRAITOR MCCAIN WHO BLOCKED ALL EFFORTS TO RETREIVE OUR POW'S AND RELEGATED THEM TO A LIFE OF HELL FOR THESE PAST 30 YEARS. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE HIM FOR THAT, NOT EVER.

Dave, your comments about "personal attacks".... does that apply to you as well? Does it apply only to us and not you???? Let us know so we can judge what we are dealing with here.

If its like the neocons and GOP who violated their own bylaws, rules and roberts rules of order, then I don't belong here anyway. Neither does anyone of integrity.

As a member of the "free" press, I personally videotaped the convention from start to abrupt end and then for the following hours with interviews of the frustrated delegates. The convention and stalling tactics of those running the show leads the viewer to obvious conclusions, the desires of all delegates were ignored, the will of the people was ignored and the only result of the convention at this time is to feed the frustrations of Nevada's citizens and label the Nevada GOP as unresponsive to their desires. After viewing the convention for a second time, first of all it is worse than the first time, and evident that time was ample to accomplish the business that should have been done but wasted with trivialities. The room was not just full of those pesky Ron Paul people, it was full of Americans volunteering their time and money to participate in a process for change, and the Nevada GOP denied them their opportunity. There is no "making a deal" because GOP leadership doesn't agree with their own rules. Sue Lowden (and everyone else in attendance) needs to watch her "Welcoming" speech at the convention and listen carefully to her own words.

"Some of us have been working for decades to return the GOP to its traditional libertarian values, and to take control away from the statists and the religious right."


Too bad Dave. We've accomplished in 8 months what you people have been working decades to attempt and you still haven't accomplished it. It's time people like you join in or step aside.

We're getting it done.

Reality check time, Jim. What you're 'getting done' is creating a backlash which will make libertarianism a dirty word in the GOP for years to come.

And Dennis. I'd love to see that video, especially the opening speech. Is it online anywhere?

Dave

"That's a bit disingenuous. Is it not true that you forced a vote to throw out all the recommendations of the nominating committee and take entirely new delegate nominations from the floor? That's what multiple media sources have reported happened. That's a takeover."

No, it's called an ELECTION! Maybe you've heard of them?

Oh, and when you hold an election, and 50%+1 of the people support one group of people, it's not surprising to see 100% of those elected at that convention to relfect the views of that 50%+1. That's how the process works. If we didn't want an actual election, then why hold a convention where delegates can vote? Why not just make everything automatic? We have conventions FOR A REASON. Figure it out.

"And Dennis. I'd love to see that video, especially the opening speech. Is it online anywhere?"

Dave, follow the URL link next to Dennis Grover's name. You'll discover that you can buy the full video from the convention. It's a bit too long to publish on YouTube, so I guess that's why he's going the CD route.

By the way, the solution to all this "chaos" is the big tent philosophy of the Republican Party. The Party leadership should embrace all this new-found energy, not try to clamp down and alient. Let some good ole rivalry heat up at this stage of that process - after all, that's what competition and campaigns are for. But, come November, we all know where folks will be voting - unless they feel disenfranchised by the Party itself.

The reality, as I see it, is that Ron Paul supporters (and by that it's really supporters of Ron Paul's overall agenda) are cut from a broad range of people: small business owners frustrated by taxes/regulations, John Birchers, White supremicists, middle class consumers who note their purchasing power shrinking, 9/11 truthers who still haven't gotten an explanation as to how two planes can take down three towers, Classical liberals who love small government, fans of Austrian economics who understand the value of sound money, old farts who can remember when there wasn't a federal rule for everything, prostitutes, civil libertarians who resent the unarguable erosion of our rights, potheads, etc, etc.

Point is, they vary, but all have an interest in freedom, economic and/or personal because they want to make their own choices and they recognize our federal govt is largely incompetent and many of its activities are Constitutionally improper. And they want change. And they know it's NOT going to happen with any of the anointed candidates the media has spoonfed the American public.

Some Ron Paul supporters might be rude, or even nuts. But I am tired of all being tarred with the same brush because any honest person can see it's simply not the case.

My perception is this country is getting ripe for a revolution. I prefer it being civil and lawful rather than the alternative, an option that may become more likely with time as our current system gets closer to imploding.

Could this author "Dave" be any more full of crap? First of all, the whole point of the conventions is to nominate and elect delegates from the attending levels to attend the next convention. Ron Paul delegates are showing up because they were ELECTED at their precinct caucuses, they're not "infiltrating". Secondly, it was the GOP who tried to change the rules at the Nevada GOP convention, NOT THE RON PAUL people! The GOP tried to limit the nominees for RNC delegates to THEIR people, instead of leaving it open to the floor as according to the rules in almost every state. That's why we have conventions. Dave Navalle: YOU ARE A SHILL FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT, GROW SOME BALLS!

Tell me again. Who's out of order? Is it the Republicans who support a man of the highest integrity this Country has seen in decades - or is it those who castigate these people; demeaning them for the courage and fortitude to stand up for what they believe in?

What kind of individuals are willing to back a candidate for the highest office of the United States who has a documented military history of negligence and recklessness?

What kind of fools are quick to blame others for the disruption and demise of a political party while they themselves mortally compromise it, and their Country, by supporting a man who collaborated with the enemy, who's known as "Songbird McCain" by those who were imprisoned with him; who as senator came to be considered the worst enemy of MIA/POWs for constantly belittling and stifling their concerns and inquiries; a man who dumped his sick wife for an heiress when he got back from Vietnam.

What kind of substance must one have, to pretend to stand for what's right and good for this Country yet spurn the support of a principled man who has for decades proven his honesty and unwavering commitment to serving the American people?

Dave, now is not the time to waste haggling over pretenses and calling names. This nation can't afford to do anything less than what is morally sound: Stand behind the best man.

The press has been very kind to the Nevada Republican Party. This was the first non-binding caucus in over 20 years, and the best thing that has happened to the NRP. Being non-Ron Paul, the facts are fairly simple:

*Only about 10% of Nevada's registered Republicans attended the Caucus.

*In the most populous county, Clark (or Las Vegas), most of the attendees were not interested in being a delegate.

*Out of more than 6,000 delegates who were nominated to be a delegate at County Convention, less than half chose to actually attend. Mitt Romney received 51% of our vote and promptly dropped out. All Alternates were moved up.

*Out of the 3,000 who attended the County Convention, less than 1/3 signed on to go the State Convention.

*Out of the 1,000 who signed up, maybe 600 actually attended from Clark County.

If Nevada goes to Ron Paul, it's because his supporters worked hard and deserve it. If Nevadan's are offended by this fact, they should have got off their butts and participated in the process through the end like I did.

For the party leadership to step in at the very end and blatently change the rules like they did, well, they deserve the 1st place award for poor sportsmanship. The fact that they are being praised by our press for putting an end to this "nonsense" (demanding a fair vote) is disgusting.

I believe congratulations are in order to the Ron Paul supporters for waking Nevada up. Maybe next election the campaigns may not take us former sheeple for granted. That is, of course, if we have a non-binding caucus again. The leadership is moving to become an early caucus state, but it will probably be binding. I never want to go back to a primary. I like the non-binding caucus.

Caucuses are a lot more responsive to candidates with enthusiastic supporters and a lot less good for candidates with broad bases of less fanatical support. This has helped Obama enormously among the Democrats where he's done much better in caucuses than he has in primaries.

This is a good thing in some ways, but it also leaves a lot of voters who don't have time to be party activists left out in the cold. Plus it tends to push the parties towards more extreme and ideological candidates.

The GOP is lucky that it's Ron Paul supporters trying to use the process to skew things their way this time and not some far-right religiously fanatical faction or something even worse.

Dave

I wonder how Ron Paul supporters are enjoying the Utah and Arizona GOP conventions today. Haven't seen much news out of them yet.

I bet they weren't too excited by Orrin Hatch's opening speech in Utah, where he described Bush as 'unappreciated' and 'a great president'.

Dave

Dave,

I thought you might be interested in this article in the La Times about Dr. Paul, as it is very much related to your article.

La Times article on Dr. Paul

I found this quote to be very interesting from one of the commentators very interesting.

"

Not sure if the author really understands pledged delegates, but thats all they are is pledged. By simply winning delegate slots to the National Convention Ron Paul supporters and Huckabee supporters only need to abstain in order for McCain not to get the required amount of votes.
These are the people showing up at the local caucuses and state conventions and are taking the national delegate spots. However it can go deeper - its estimated that Ron Paul has over 600 delegates to date that will either switch thier votes from McCain to Paul or just abstain. These are delegate votes that McCain will not get and put him back under the magic number. While Ron Paul may not have enough votes to win the Republican Nomination, he probably will have enough to broker the convention.

It really does not matter who wins the primaries, it matter's who shows up at the State Caucuses - because those are the people that end up going to the Republican National Convention and voting for the Republican nominee. So in your article when you say McCain locked it up long ago, you mean in theory, but the problem with McCain is that he has no ground support, he was a media made nominee that was basically voted in by people who have no idea how the system works and do whatever the media says like robots. They DO NOT show up at caucus because they think its all over, little do they know.

Abraham Lincoln went into his nominating convention with 32 delegates and came out the nominee.

Look out - its not over folks"

"Caucuses are a lot more responsive to candidates with enthusiastic supporters and a lot less good for candidates with broad bases of less fanatical support. This has helped Obama enormously among the Democrats where he's done much better in caucuses than he has in primaries.

This is a good thing in some ways, but it also leaves a lot of voters who don't have time to be party activists left out in the cold. Plus it tends to push the parties towards more extreme and ideological candidates."

Dave, parties SHOULD be run by ideological candidates. Party activists are exactly the people who have the knowledge to make rational choices. If you were sick who would you listen to, a doctor or a short order cook? Primaries were set up to break the power of the corrupt political machines but in the process they created a system where people choose candidates based on how "cute" they are.

The whole point of a party is to get ideological candidates. You write a platform and then you choose candidates to implement that platform. It only works if the people who vote on the platform are also the ones who chose the candidates. The less activist people don't have time to read the platform so they have no idea what the candidates stand for. That's how we got into this mess to begin with.