Blogcritics Comments on How to Get Universal Health Care

Comment by bliffle on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:05:48 EDT

All are arguable points, cannon, but I have more interesting things to do at this moment.

Comment by Cannonshop on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:42:16 EDT

A couple of observations- we have TWO examples of "Universal Healthcare" to look at in operation in the U.S. 1. Medicare. 2. VA (Veteran's Administration) or Military health-care. Neither has a good record for providing good quality of care. Both are notorious for financial mismanagement, poor patient care (Walter Reed anyone?), frequent mistakes (Overbilling, fraudulent payment, "Losing" money and resources, not to mention poor response to consumer issues!) Now,there are lots of countries that don't have these problems (or, at least, don't admit to having those problems.) those countries don't have guys like Karl Rove or George Soros influencing who holds office, nor do they have the kind of corruption the U.S. Federal Government suffers from and has suffered from since the Grant Administration. y'see, here in the U.S. the people who make a life of Civil Service usually do so, because they lack the ability to make a life OUTSIDE of civil Service. It isn't like much of Europe, where Merit actually matters and kids WANT to go into government, study to go in, and it has a respectability. HERE, everyone knows what a "Civil Servant" really is-he's isolated from economic down-turns and can't be fired, is never held accountable for mistakes, and is usually someone incapable of earning a living outside of a Federal office. "Rule by the Worst" or Kakocracy.

Comment by Bofbetteloamb on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:51:29 EDT

broalmanone.com

Comment by Zedd on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 21:07:55 EDT

Clav, Come on. The entire world is aboard and they are all fine. What are you arguing? Who says that UHC would be administrated in the same way that you've experienced state medicine? Who said that? That seems to be the premise by which your argument arises from. But I have heard NO ONE say that the administration of UHC would be the same as what exists or has existed. So what are you all in a tizzy about? Okay, we get it, you were annoyed by the processes that you had to under go. But what does that have to do with the ridiculous system which leaves millions of Americans in a bind, especially as the population ages? OMG I just realizes something. You've been discussing substantive issues for three days. Are you alright? Now we have to work on you being right :o)

Comment by Clavos on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 17:41:33 EDT

And no one in Europe wants the US system. Understandably. What's not understandable is your desire to turn the management of the health care of the people here over to the worst possible entity in the country. Let the Feds (i.e. US) pay for it, but hell give it to Mrs. Smith's third graders to run rather than letting our government of bumblers and slackers do it. The kids will certainly do it better.

Comment by bliffle on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 16:35:54 EDT

Not at all. Medical care that I and my relatives and in-laws have experienced in Europe is easily available, good quality, and inexpensive. And no one in Europe wants the US system.

Comment by Clavos on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 14:04:37 EDT

UHC exists in most of the other industrialized nations and is always less expensive and easier to use than the ramshackle USA system. You obviously haven't read any of the horror stories emanating from countries with UHC, bliffle. In those countries where it works, they don't have the US government operating it for them; if they did, it wouldn't be working. As I've said a multitude of times before, I have direct, hands on multi year experience with US government health insurance. It's a nightmare, with deficiencies in every area the consumer is forced to deal with. Your endorsement of government interfering yet more in people's lives, while not ignorant (except for your faith in the integrity and efficiency of the US government), does seem to be one of advocacy beyond the well being of the people. Are you a government employee, active or retired?

Comment by Fraud hunter on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 13:23:41 EDT

Regarding Bliffle in the Federal Fraud hunting busienss. The current systems employed by Mewdicare and Medicaid amount to counting the number of horses rounded up afer the barn door is unlocked. This is the only business in the world where the customer (us) pays bills without any verification that any service was acutally delivered. At least in the private sector you get an explanation of benefits and have an increasing portion you are responsible for. In medicare and Medicaid, providers can bill to their hearts content and nobody gets a notice saying "this doctor billed on your behalf" . Furthermore, there is no way to adequately report fraud. Instead of playin cops & robbers, they should use existing technology to precent fraud. It can be done.

Comment by bliffle on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 13:07:15 EDT

Clavos insists on ignoring the information available at the end of his nose. UHC exists in most of the other industrialized nations and is always less expensive and easier to use than the ramshackle USA system. Habitually ignoring evidence is what leads people to be called ignorant.

Comment by Clavos on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 12:46:30 EDT

The only organization remaining to represent the interests of individuals is the government... And it doesn't (thank goodness!!). You certainly paint a grim picture, bliffle. You think health care is bad now...

Comment by bliffle on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 12:00:11 EDT

"But then, employees in the private sector are held accountable for their work." They are held accountable for costs and revenues but not health delivery. The cost accountability is what has led to a lot of abuses, especially about 'pre-existing' conditions and elective surgery , etc. Revenue accountability has the perverse effect of motivating them to inflate your bills. If the private insurance business were truly competitive then 'clients' would be able to hold the companies accountable, but it is not. The McCarran-Ferguson act of 1945 specifically exempts them from federal regulation, leaving only the ultra-weak state regulators. As a consequence they have formed an oligopoly wherein they share markets by mutual consent. The client is closed out of the decision system. What we have is an administered economy, not a Free Market economy. And it's administered by the companies themselves. For their own benefit, not the clients. Employer provided healthcare became common after WW2 when employers sought to add non-wage benefits to employment offers in order to use non-monetary compensation to build loyalty at low cost through insurance. Large companies had the management and fiscal skills and market clout to keep the insurance companies honest. When the insCos tried to screw the corps with unreasonable premiums the corps retaliated by 'self-insuring', whereby the corp would endow the pool funds themselves and just hire out the paperwork at low rates to the insCos. That worked good because the corp generally looked out for their employees. But that excluded non-corp people like the self-employed and unemployed or retired, who found themselves confronted by ultra-high premiums and exclusions. Now, in these modern times, the corps don't care about their employees or their loyalty, in fact may be antagonistic to their own employees, so even corp employees are thrown into the pool of lonely disorganized individuals easily exploited by Big Bully insurance cos. The only organization remaining to represent the interests of individuals is the government, and that's why UHC is in our futures.

Comment by Clavos on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 00:35:34 EDT

Maurice #49, Thanks! You're right; we must insist that any proposed new plans must include portability.

Comment by Zedd on How to Get Universal Health Care

Mon, 12 May 2008 00:23:49 EDT

Dave, I am frightened by your legalistic description of what humanity owes one another. We would not have made it as a species had everyone been as selfish and legalistic as yourself. In your romantic libertarian society of the past, it was an unspoken rule to come to the aid of the ill. Not doing so would not have been looked upon as a choice to be made, one would be shunned and thought to be lacking in the qualities that distinguishes us from other species. Now that we have evolved and have become more "civilized" we organize ourselves through more elaborate systems. The unspoken expectations of old are spelled out through policy and regulations. Perhaps you should embrace the evolutionary process of mankind and adjust.

Comment by Maurice on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 22:50:08 EDT

Clavos, my friend you make very good points. Well written. No doubt all us want good, affordable health care and certainly you and I have worked the system. I keep thinking about Staci's comment #25. I have to agree. It is weird that insurance is connected to the employer. Why couldn't there be a group insurance plan that is not associated with the employer?

Comment by Clavos on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 21:09:49 EDT

It's not just the fraud, bliffle, it's the stupidity and indifference of the government employees who staff Medicare, as well. I have a number of EOBs I could show you in which we are billed $2 or $3K by CMS, the Medicare billing division. In each case, my wife, who is a REAL insurance expert, has taken them, and after a few days of calling Medicare, usually escalating up to senior management before she finds someone who knows as much about medical billing as she does, brings them back to me with instructions to pay $80 or $100 on a bill originally submitted for $2,500. I can well imagine how much overcharging goes on in the households where the family doesn't know enough to object cogently. By contrast, similar mistakes from our private carrier (for me; I'm not Medicare eligible) are much rarer. But then, employees in the private sector are held accountable for their work.

Comment by Dave Nalle on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 21:00:11 EDT

Comment by bliffle on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 20:51:23 EDT

Speaking as one who spent several years in the Medical Fraud Detection business, I can attest that ALL medical systems suffer from extensive fraud. Both providers and recipients commit fraud. If someone breaks an arm it may get reported six times for payment, by either the recipient or the provider. Fraud is so extensive and common that we could send a salesman to give a seminar on Fraud Detection to prospects and he would find actual live frauds in the prospects database. That is true of both government systems and private systems. The difference between government and private systems is that Federal Medicare (and medicaid) law REQUIRES that the State systems employ a certified fraud software system in order to participate, which means that every state hires a certified system. No such fraud detection software is required for private systems. In fact, private systems (perversely) have a vested interest in leaving fraud undetected because their profits are basically derived from a surcharge on expenditures. There is no competition because Federal regulation is prohibited by a 1945 law. It's a racket. As a result, while Medicare overhead runs about 3% private insurance runs about 40%.

Comment by Clavos on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 10:21:08 EDT

the fact is that the administrative costs in Medicare are profoundly lower than the private health insurance industry... As I have mentioned repeatedly in the past, this is true, as far as it goes. However, "administrative costs" are a drop in the bucket compared to what Medicare pays overall for the services and goods it pays on behalf of its clients, and I have 2 1/2 years worth of EOBs to prove it. As I've also said repeatedly: I'm not opposed to providing health care for all Americans; I'm not even opposed to paying for it with my taxes. Just don't let the corrupt, crooked inept American government handle anything but paying for it. And watch them carefully. Can you say $600 hammers?

Comment by Joel S. Hirschhorn on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 08:56:49 EDT

As usual Nalle and Clavos demonstrate their complete bias and/or ignorance. UHC is all about providing affordable insurance available to everyone (despite prior medical conditions) and that emphasizes preventive care and includes mental health care and drugs. It is ALL about ensuring access to medical care, leaving the choice of medical care to the individual. Right now access is denied because health insurance is either too expensive or just not available at all because of a person's medical history. Then too, increasingly even health insurance that is available imposes such huge costs for copays etc that it prevents use because the costs are just too high for millions of people. Employers increasingly are either not offering subsidized health insurance or offering only limited/costly insurance of little use. As to Medicare, here too there is nothing but disinformation coming from the usual right wing loonies on this site; in fact, Medicare is more financially efficient than the entire private health insurance industry; while there is always some fraud waste and abuse (including in the private insurance market), the fact is that the administrative costs in Medicare are profoundly lower than the private health insurance industry, because PROFIT levels are so extremely high in the private health industry sector. STOP confusing insurance to get access versus health delivery that without insurance is simply too costly for all but the wealthy.

Comment by Clavos on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 01:17:51 EDT

UHC is cheaper than this system we have now Since we've never had UHC in this country, that is an unwarranted, baseless assumption. The closest thing we have to UHC at present is Medicare. I am very familiar with Medicare and the prices it pays for goods and services. It consistently and regularly overpays for nearly everything. We MIGHT be able to provide UHC more cheaply, as long as we don't let the government do anything but pay the bills, without ANY administrative responsibility, and especially, without regulatory authority. For the reasons why, see my #29, above.

Comment by Dave Nalle on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 00:57:39 EDT

You do not have a right to healthcare, you have a right to equal access to healthcare. To say that you have a right to healthcare is to say that you have the right to compel others to provide goods and services to you at no cost. It is to say that you have the right to make doctors and nurses slaves of the state. It is to say that you have the right to use the force of government to take money out of the pocket of your neighbor to provide for your needs. To demand a right to healthcare is to demand tyrrany. What you actually have is the opportunity to be responsible for your own healthcare and to demand that it be provided in a fair and equitable way. You have the right to have the government protect your access to healthcare as part of the 'general welfare' guaranteed in the constitution. That does not mean compelling others to pay for or to provide your care free of charge. It means assuring that health care and insurance are regulated and provided at a fair price and without unreasonable restrictions or conditions. Dave

Comment by bliffle on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sun, 11 May 2008 00:49:00 EDT

UHC is cheaper than this system we have now. We pay extra to prop up this ramshackle system. So, why not just abandon it and embrace UHC?

Comment by Maurice on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sat, 10 May 2008 23:49:16 EDT

Zedd, read Clavos #29

Comment by Zedd on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sat, 10 May 2008 23:31:40 EDT

Folks, Universal HC is a standard around the world. What is the debate about? Are you all alright? Its like insisting on using horse and buggy and debating on whether man can fly. Uhmmmm Its done every day. Is it me??? Are you saying it cant happen on principle? Or you don't want to feel socialistic even though it would work or you don't want to put saddle makers, blacksmiths and buggy lots out of business? What is the real problem? It's odd. I'm guessing its like the switching to the metric system. We don't wanna cause....... well, we just don't wanna.

Comment by Maurice on How to Get Universal Health Care

Sat, 10 May 2008 23:16:17 EDT

I am always sensitive to stereotyping and profiling. This Marlowe dude is extreme! Put the broad brush aside, man! There are some very sensible remarks here (Staci #25 is one...) made by people that don't fit your predjudiced description.