Blogcritics Comments on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Comment by Baritone on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:29:20 EDT

Actually, I don't think the reinstatement of the draft is that remote a prospect. The well is quickly running dry with our volunteer forces. I've heard that some of the military mucky-mucks have considered turning say a Navy volunteer into a Marine or even an Army grunt after they've signed on the dotted line and taken the pledge. Of course, "stop-loss" is well documented. If in fact we do find ourselves in another conflict say with, oh I don't know, maybe Iran? - what then? The draft could become a very real possibility, even a probability. B-tone

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:32:29 EDT

Arch... And has Baritone, myself or any of the other regular 'liberal' commenters on Blogcritics expressed such melodramatic fears? As for the reinstatement of the draft, the only politician to have seriously proposed it recently was Democrat Charlie Rangel - and it was with the intent of forcing the Executive to think twice before putting Americans in harm's way, not to ensure a constant supply of cannon fodder.

Comment by Arch Conservative on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:42:42 EDT

"Arch and others here succumbed to their self-actualizing hysteria. According to their fears, we will all be traipsing about the country riding bicycles with copies of Mao's Book tucked into our backpacks to and from the collective." You're right Baritone....I'm being far too melodramatic. I should try to be more reasonable .....sort of like the fine liberals who are constantly reminding us that Republican leadership can only lead to the collapse of the global environement as we know it in the next fifty years, a corporate CEO hiding under your bed at night just waiting for you to fall asleep so he can drink your blood and steal the fillings out of your mouth, and the reinstatement of the draft so we can start a new war with a different nation each new year.

Comment by Baritone on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:18:35 EDT

Arch and others here succumbed to their self-actualizing hysteria. According to their fears, we will all be traipsing about the country riding bicycles with copies of Mao's Book tucked into our backpacks to and from the collective. B-tone

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:51:16 EDT

And it'll be a sight more nutritious than half a stale Snickers bar.

Comment by bliffle on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:29:46 EDT

He can always blame it on the actions of his predecessor.

Comment by Arch Conervative on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:17:57 EDT

No sense in arguing about the past comrades. We will all soon have plenty to gripe about when under president Obama we are waiting six hours in line for half a loaf of stale bread.

Comment by bliffle on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:55:25 EDT

The Lumpen One attempts to turn a turd into a Snickers Bar again: "If Bush overstated the Iraq to Al Qaeda connection he understated the rest of their terrorist and WMD activities more than enough to balance it out." In both cases he lied, as you would expect from a perpetual liar and shirker. Let Lumpo eat his own Snicker Bar.

Comment by Lumpy on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:35:28 EDT

Nuanced debate with a tranzi zombie. Go at it. I need a laugh. As for the tired old 'Bush lied' canard, I can't believe you people still think u can get away with it in light of all the evidence which has accumulated. If Bush overstated the Iraq to Al Qaeda connection he understated the rest of their terrorist and WMD activities more than enough to balance it out. I can't believe this pack of terrorist enablers and surrendrr monkeys gets treated like they have some sort of legitimacy when they trott out their tired bullshit. Chris Rose has a big future in dhimmitude.

Comment by Lumpy on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:30:43 EDT

nuanced debate with a tranzi zombie. Go at it. I need a laugh. As for the tired old 'Bush lied' canard, I can't believe you people still think u can get away with it in light of all the evidence which has accumulated. If Bush overstated the Iraq to Al Qaeda connection he understated the rest of their terrorist and WMD activities more than enough to balance it out. I can't believe this pack of terrorist enablers and surrendrr monkeys gets treated like they have some sort of legitimacy when they trott out their tired bullshit. Chris Rose has a big future in dhimmitude.

Comment by Baritone on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:59:34 EDT

Boys, boys!

Comment by Christopher Rose on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:55:57 EDT

Clavos, I have a good idea what shipbuilding involves but that doesn't mean I'd start opining about it. I didn't compare code writing to high art, so your "point" is meaningless, possibly as you intended, but it is an art nonetheless. Good literature is a subjective view, as with all art. If you find this from Macbeth

If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well It were done quickly: if the assassination Could trammel up the consequence, and catch With his surcease success; that but this blow Might be the be-all and the end-all here, But here, upon this bank and shoal of time, We'ld jump the life to come. But in these cases We still have judgment here; that we but teach Bloody instructions, which, being taught, return To plague the inventor: this even-handed justice Commends the ingredients of our poison'd chalice To our own lips. He's here in double trust; First, as I am his kinsman and his subject, Strong both against the deed; then, as his host, Who should against his murderer shut the door, Not bear the knife myself. Besides, this Duncan Hath borne his faculties so meek, hath been So clear in his great office, that his virtues Will plead like angels, trumpet-tongued, against The deep damnation of his taking-off; And pity, like a naked new-born babe, Striding the blast, or heaven's cherubim, horsed Upon the sightless couriers of the air, Shall blow the horrid deed in every eye, That tears shall drown the wind. I have no spur To prick the sides of my intent, but only Vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself And falls on the other.

inspiring reading, good luck to you. I'm comfortable reading more contemporary stuff by the likes of Herman Hesse, whose 1943 novel The Glass Bead Game changed my understanding of life profoundly; Frank Herbert, all of whose novels fascinate me still; Harlan Ellison, who I really need to read much more of; or even more recent works such as the writing of William Gibson, who has been described as the most important novelist of the last 20 years. You may find the old school writers you've championed satisfying but as with much old stuff, the world of ideas, like the world itself, has moved on a lot since then. If that makes me shallow, then so be it. Dave, the only reason you have for not engaging with me is that your tragic tricks of misdirection and evasion are not working. Any time you feel like actually engaging in some focussed and nuanced debate, do let me know; until then, at least you entertain me with your unintentionally hilarious efforts at maintaining your pretensions.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:29:34 EDT

Jeez, Chris, Dave, Clav, will you ever feckin stop it? Like a trio of Red Hat ladies arguing over whether the other two are wearing purple or burgundy.

Comment by Dave Nalle on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:17:20 EDT

Slowly it dawns on Clavos how pointless it is to try to have a discussion with CR... Hmmm. Just checking the title and subject of the original post. Seems as though you have no trouble at discerning the mind of HC. Double standard, perhaps? Certainly occured to me when we got on the subject of lying. And yes, there's room to debate whether Hillary lied. I read an explication of this in an article we just published about the 'sniper fire' incident, whose author seems to get the nuances of what is and isn't a lie. What about a fucking stupid ass five hundred billion dollar war and the idiotic fiscal decisions of the Bushies as regards the possible if not likely bankrupting of the country? It's perfectly fine to blow the shit out of Iraqis, but don't dare spend a fucking dime on the health and well being of our own citizens. What a load of crap! Not to quibble, but Bush's medicare prescription drug plan is an attempt to help out our own citizens and it's a hell of a big budget buster in its own right. No nation I know of which fully supports its health care system has gone bankrupt in the effort. But don't you think that if anyone could do it we'd be the ones? Dave

Comment by Clavos on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:47:37 EDT

"Clavos, writing code is much more than layout, but don't let the fact that you don't know enough about it stop you having an opinion." Actually, Christopher, I have a very good idea of what writing code entails -- enough of one to know that I'm not in awe of the skill, and that I don't consider it to be on a level of talent or intellect with writing a good play, work of fiction or symphony. "As to the authors you name, I much prefer more contemporary writers myself and find these some combination of turgid, naive or boring personally, but don't let that stop you enjoying the badness." That you find writers like Shakespeare and Chaucer "turgid, naive or boring" only proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that not only do you have no clue as to what constitutes good literature, but also that Dave's comment about the shallowness of your intellect is spot on. "You do know the meaning of bad now, right?" I've always known its meaning; since long before street kids began to misuse it.

Comment by Baritone on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:29:16 EDT

Dave, "To suggest that you know the absolute truth of the workings of another person's mind is supremely arrogant. Hmmm. Just checking the title and subject of the original post. Seems as though you have no trouble at discerning the mind of HC. Double standard, perhaps? What about a fucking stupid ass five hundred billion dollar war and the idiotic fiscal decisions of the Bushies as regards the possible if not likely bankrupting of the country? It's perfectly fine to blow the shit out of Iraqis, but don't dare spend a fucking dime on the health and well being of our own citizens. What a load of crap! No nation I know of which fully supports its health care system has gone bankrupt in the effort. No doubt there are problems, but compared to our "non-system" they fade in comparison to how most such systems make care available to all - even non-citizens. B-tone

Comment by bliffle on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:04:01 EDT

Dave invents new quibbles to patch the failures of his old quibbles. Where will it end? In quibble Hell?

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:51:25 EDT

I seem to remember a certain Mr Santa Anna messing rather successfully with Texas. DON'T BRING YOUR PORN 'ERE TO CALIFORNIA!!! [Nope. OK. Doesn't quite have the same ring to it...]

Comment by Arch Conervative on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:25:57 EDT

You tell'm Dave. Hey Chris....... DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS!

Comment by Christopher Rose on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:25:36 EDT

Dave, I don't for one minute believe your claim that you're satisfied to amuse just yourself. It's a sad and limited ambition in any case, but not remotely believable. As to to the shallowness of my intellect, the only place that's a matter of record is in that deeply scratched and flawed record of your imagination. You have actually made me laugh, albeit in a sardonic way, with the convoluted construction of your argument suggesting I see the world in black and white. In reality, you're the one that has fixed and rigid views, such as your constant shallow and hysterical denunciation of the left in politics. Trying to tar others with the brush that painted you is one of your favourite little tricks. I'm well aware of the many nuances of lying, but none of that is relevant to your point about Bush, ho has been proven a liar on more than one occasion. The fact that you keep banging this red herring so determinedly is quite revealing about you, as is your feeble attempt to associate my critique of your rampant egomania with the conspiracy theory loving Pablo. Luckily for you, you do live in a smug and simplistic world, so at least one of your wishes has come true. Personally, I'll stick closer to actual reality, in which nobody, least of all an elitist pig, has a monopoly on the truth and learning from one's mistakes is a badge of honour. You should try it some time...

Comment by Dave Nalle on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:34:23 EDT

Christopher, if I amuse myself then I'm perfectly happy. That others sometimes find me amusing has been confirmed often enough by their comments for me to have some confidence that they aren't all missing the point. The shallowness of your intellect is a matter of record. That you think that not seeing the world in terms of stark black and white is 'pathetic' and that you think that you own some sort of absolute truth smacks of the kind of arrogant self-righteousness which can only exist in the mind of someone who is profoundly ignorant. Do you even understand that there is a difference between a lie by omission, exaggeration, jumping to conclusions, making a statement on assumption without evidence, a shading of the truth, selecting data to support an argument and an outrght lie? Did you know it's even possible to make a statement which you think to be true at the time and which later proves to be false and that this does not make your original statement - untrue though it may be - a lie? I wish I could live in the smug and simple world which you and Pablo and so many others seem to inhabit, but ultimately I think it would drive me mad to deliberately filter out reality that way. Dave

Comment by Christopher Rose on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:05:36 EDT

Clavos, writing code is much more than layout, but don't let the fact that you don't know enough about it stop you having an opinion. Nobody ever said freedom of speech required being informed. Furthermore I didn't compare it to literature but to language and prose. You'd actually have to get off your self-generated pile of ire and pay attention to notice of course. As to the authors you name, I much prefer more contemporary writers myself and find these some combination of turgid, naive or boring personally, but don't let that stop you enjoying the badness. You do know the meaning of bad now, right? ;-) Dave, once again, you can aim for humour but, just like precision or beauty, if it isn't perceived as such you've failed to achieve it. Trust me, you're not a funny guy, at least in the comedic sense of the word. What is funny is how you perceive my honesty as insult but not your own insults; that is hilarious, so please do keep making a monkey of yourself. On the other hand, your kneejerk defense of Bush and his lies isn't funny at all but rather tragic. It's a matter of record and your feeble blustering about not knowing his state of mind is simply pathetic.

Comment by Dave Nalle on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:18:43 EDT

And once again we find that sarcasm, irony, self-deprecation, and for that matter any other kind of humor flies right by Chris without stirring even the vaguest form of recognition in his smug and humorless demeanor. Christopher, engage in 'avoidance' through humor and off-hand remarks with you in order to avoid dragging arguments out and making them unpleasant, because lacking the resources for a mature discussion, you invariably resort to personal insults as you have already started to do here, and that's unpleasant and disruptive. As for Bush's 'lies' whether they are lies is always going to have an element of subjectivity, because we absolutely cannot know his thought processes and whether he had effectively convinced himself that what he was telling was the truth, or at most a shading of the truth, rather than a lie. To suggest that you know the absolute truth of the workings of another person's mind is supremely arrogant. Dave

Comment by Clavos on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 07:43:14 EDT

"Although there is not a vast amount of creativity involved in making some words appear in italics, the writing of great code is as much a creative exercise as writing great prose." It's called "layout" in publishing. How many layout "artists" have been celebrated, quoted and studied as universally and comprehensively as Shakespeare, Donne, Chaucer, Twain or Faulkner (just to name a few)? "Deciding how to make a web page look, feel and flow is very much a work of art as much as science." A "work of art?" You mean like Hamlet? Or The Canterbury Tales? Crap. Comparing the talent and skill of creating literature with writing code is ridiculous. Doing so in such a supercilious, condescending tone is risible.

Comment by Christopher Rose on Thirty-Five Years of Lies and Coverups on the Road to the White House

Tue, 8 Apr 2008 05:27:51 EDT

Clavos, whilst appreciating your unique blend of Scando-Latino forthrightness, it's actually you that is writing crap. Dave's amusing claim was to precision not creativity and in that he clearly failed. Although there is not a vast amount of creativity involved in making some words appear in italics, the writing of great code is as much a creative exercise as writing great prose. Deciding how to make a web page look, feel and flow is very much a work of art as much as science. It's possibly your comparative ignorance on the subject that makes you think so little of it, but don't worry, it's not something you need to learn to do. Precision in writing also actually involves learning something about a subject, so I'd suggest you consider sticking to a last you're more familiar with than code. As to the author of the lofty claim to precision himself, I note he responds with his usual off target and entirely self serving responses. Dave, correcting your many logical flaws is becoming too time consuming, but in the possibly vain hope that one day the clear light of reason will penetrate the muddy walls of fixed perception that obscure your mental vision, let's try one more time. It isn't relevant to respond to my statement that it is not for you to say that you write with precision by saying that it is for you to "say what I intended to communicate". What you intended to say has nothing to do with how precisely you say it. Thanks for proving my point though. Similarly, responding to my observation that "there are many who find your writing full of vagueness and unjustified presumption" with "There are many people who believe all sorts of strange things which I'm also not responsible for" is another example of your one great skill, which is avoidance. Although I didn't actually enter into the debate about whether Bush lied, I'll respond to your obfuscating red herring by saying that it is a clear matter of record that he has lied. To be even entering into a debate about that suggests that anyone seeking to do so probably has ulterior motives. You final little sneer is actually your funniest. Despite displaying your vast self love (see The Elitist Pig, The Republic of Dave and the truly entertaining Elite Bloggers for additional evidence) and loathing of others here at BC on a daily basis, you still manage to conjure up this gem: "Loving oneself is an essential precondition to loving others and the world. Perhaps your deep self loathing explains your inability to love me as much as I love myself." Whilst loving oneself can be a good thing, it's not always so. There have been many examples throughout history, from Narcissus to Bush, of people who loved themselves too much. It's also entirely possible to love others and the world without loving oneself, so again your writing is lacking in this much vaunted precision of yours to assert it as an "essential precondition". I'm not aware that you are a practising psychiatrist so I'll consider your shamateur diagnosis as nothing more than the vain preening of a mind that is far too enamoured of itself, possibly as a defence mechanism to avoid facing up to its many blatant deficiencies. For truly effective communication to take place, it helps to be able to receive as well as transmit. This requires having a certain quality of empathy in order to understand what is being received. These days, it's increasingly common that received messages are misunderstood due to the more polarised world we live in. This may be an inevitable and unfortunate consequence of the extremely rapid pace of cultural, social and technological change, but it is regrettable nontheless. It does however mean that great communication skill, an inherently interactive art, is at a premium and it is unhelpful to dialogue to be locked too firmly into a rigid ivory tower of excessive certainty, whether as a product of faith or reason. Truly we live in extremely fluid times. I wonder if Heisenberg ever considered this social dimension after formulating his famous "Principle of Uncertainty"?