Blogcritics Comments on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Comment by troll on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:31:10 EDT

Last I checked we allowed free speech even for foreign nationals, what with it being an inalienable right of humanity and all. nonresponsive

Comment by Dave Nalle on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:17:33 EDT

The people doing the talking are paid to express those views. They are NOT advocating for themselves. They are NOT expressing their personal views. So if I'm a journalist paid to write editorials I lose my free speech rights? Same thing if I'm a speechwriter? Both I and the guy I write speeches for no longer have full rights to express ourselves? You can't limit free speech based on your subjective perception of the motivation of the speaker. And they are hired based on their ability to get close to the decision makers, because of their personal familiarity. This is commonly known as "influence peddling". Many forms of influence peddling are illegal. Arrest them if they cross that line. And they are offering bribes, in the form of campaign contributions. Offering bribes is not constitutionally protected free speech. True, and it's already illegal. If they violate anti bribery laws, arrest them. ...lobbyists are not necessarily citizens nor do they necessarily advocate for the interests of citizens Last I checked we allowed free speech even for foreign nationals, what with it being an inalienable right of humanity and all. Dave

Comment by troll on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:18:57 EDT

It's just citizens talking to their legislators. ...lobbyists are not necessarily citizens nor do they necessarily advocate for the interests of citizens

Comment by bliffle on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:08:40 EDT

"It's just citizens talking to their legislators." No it's not. The people doing the talking are paid to express those views. They are NOT advocating for themselves. They are NOT expressing their personal views. And they are hired based on their ability to get close to the decision makers, because of their personal familiarity. This is commonly known as "influence peddling". And they are offering bribes, in the form of campaign contributions. Offering bribes is not constitutionally protected free speech.

Comment by Dave Nalle on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:34:53 EDT

Bliff, it's free speech. It's just citizens talking to their legislators. What could be more appropriate? Dave

Comment by bliffle on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:57:17 EDT

How so? " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Comment by Baronius on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:21:14 EDT

Sorry if this is a double-post: Handy, my point is that lobbying is protected by the First Amendment. Not just "good" lobbying. If anything, we need to be more protective of "bad" lobbying, because it's so easy to oppose the unpopular and controversial.

Comment by handyguy on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:30:12 EDT

Yes, Baronius, I make value judgments. So, I suspect, do you. Your point being?

Comment by Baronius on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:11:19 EDT

Dave, the distinction you have to make is between good lobbying and bad lobbying. Sweat shops are bad. So are nuclear power, the Irish, and flouridation. If you have any questions, I've got a master list of good and bad things.

Comment by STM on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:20:36 EDT

Doc: The weather issue is big down there. It's freezing in winter. People joke about Melbourne experiencing four seasons in a day, and they're only half joking. Even though it's only an hour's plane flight from Sydney, the difference is palpable. Sydney is a warm South Pacific city, and much of the weather is a result of weather patterns generated in the south pacific and by north-easterly airstreams off tropical Queensland - while Melbourne sits on the southern tip of mainland Australia, which means it's exposed to the cold prevailing winter winds from the Southern Ocean - which as everyone knows, are generated off the ice floes of the Antarctic. While they've warmed up a bit by the time they hit the great southern continent, they are still bloody cold. The only city colder in winter in Australia is Hobart, which suffers from being near the southern tip of Tasmania. It is the most beautiful city in Oz though. However, I prefer my winter beaches with warm water and sand, rather than snow, which is why I haven't moved there. You should come back for another visit one day Doc and call in while you're here.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:46:13 EDT

Ah yes, the Grand Prix. Our boy Lewis Hamilton, who should win the F1 title at a canter this time around after narrowly missing out in his rookie season last year, took the prize, I see. Not surprised it upset some folks, though. The race takes place partly on the city streets, doesn't it? I did like Melbourne - not as much as I thought I would, though, and it doesn't hold a candle to Sydney. My favourite part was the weather. Bright, sunny and warm one minute; pelting down with rain and/or hail the next. Quite reminded me of home. I love rain.

Comment by STM on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:55:59 EDT

Mate, Melbourne's a great place. The problem is it's full of Victorians, or Mexicans as we call 'em round these parts :) I went down for the F1 Grand Prix. I think I saw part of a sporting event but I'm not sure. It's not spectator friendly, and the noise. Fair dinkum, it's literally ear-shattering. There were kids there who were crying because of the noise. On Melbourne: it has its good points. The trams for one. I reckon Melbourne has the best public transport network on the planet. My daughter and I were sitting at a beachfront cafe in St Kilda eating our dinner on Saturday night, and the tram stop was across the road. There was a tram going back to the city about every five minutes, and it's only a 15-minute trip back to town. Pretty damn good, and you can get them just about anywhere around the city and suburbs. If Sydney is like a big west coast city in America, Melbourne is like a European city ... totally different. The women dress exquistely too. It's a pretty stylish town. I don't think I could live there though, but it's still a pretty good joint.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:14:29 EDT

Stan: Pablo must really get your goat if you're actually glad you spent the weekend in Melbourne rather than Phuket...

Comment by Dave Nalle on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:21:45 EDT

Baronius: Dave, great article. Indisputable. I don't even know where the "opinion" part is. Handyguy: Dave's article, like many of his articles, is almost a textbook case of disingenuous fake reasoning. I think I've achieved a perfect yin-yang kind of balance in getting these two responses. Dave

Comment by STM on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:21:29 EDT

Pablo's in Phuket. Glad I spent the weekend in Melbourne.

Comment by Dave Nalle on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:15:04 EDT

Handy, how are lobbyists inherently any more good or evil than anyone else? They represent all sorts of groups and the only thing they have in common is that they promote the interests of those groups by whatever means they can. None of them are above reproach and all of them would stoop to taking people to play golf or threatening them with adverse publicity. There's NO DIFFERENCE. You can argue that some of them represent good causes and some represent bad causes, but that's largely subjective, and you could just as easily argue that some voters vote for good reasons and some vote for bad reasons. This is not a case of fake reasoning or being disingenous, it's a case of honesty which you're too timid to accept. Dave

Comment by handyguy on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:50:38 EDT

Pretending that all lobbying activity is identical, and therefore equally good [or bad], is where this argument breaks down. Lobbyists who simply make sound arguments effectively [or what they believe to be sound arguments] are a lot different from lobbyists who take politicians on high-priced golf excursions. There are also plenty of lobbyists who have obscured their agenda. Not all are so out-front in their aims as, say, the NRA. Abramoff, for example, was helping Tom DeLay and others support sweat shops in US Territories that were not states so they could carry a "Made in USA" label. How was that a good thing? In addition, the allegedly protected political speech of these groups should be regularly checked for bullshit and lies. Their distortions have the power to get in the way of real issues discussions during [and between] elections. Pretending that the regulation of this anti-democratic [small "d"] attack rhetoric is unconstitutional is one of the right's lamest arguments. Dave's article, like many of his articles, is almost a textbook case of disingenuous fake reasoning.

Comment by Jet in Columbus on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 02:46:27 EDT

(Groan) I see I'm going to have to go back to labeling my jokes so people know when to laugh

Comment by Pablo on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 02:32:04 EDT

Jet, If you had seen some of STM's previous comments to me in other posts perhaps you would not be so quick to judge. I act in accordance to how I am treated, don't you? El Bicho, Your name fits you to a tee, I am so ashamed of my ignorance concerning Mr. Russo's film career, kudos to you.

Comment by Jet in Columbus on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:52:17 EDT

How rude Pablo, how very very rude...

Comment by Clavos on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:47:14 EDT

"STM You are being ignored" See #53...

Comment by Baronius on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:42:21 EDT

Dave, great article. Indisputable. I don't even know where the "opinion" part is. Without lobbying groups, I have no say in the election of 98% of the Senate and a larger percentage of the House. I have no leverage against them. And that'd be fine if they had limited authority over me (as the Founding Fathers intended). But we citizens are in a constant battle against the federal government. McCain took away one of our best defenses against government, the right to organized political speech in the days before an election. Now politicians want to remove our money from the system. I say, we make them sit up and beg for our campaign dollars. If our lobbyists tell you to do the cha cha, you do the cha cha. Have you noticed that politicians have no complaints about the money we have to give them? But it's the donations that are a "corrupting influence".

Comment by El Bicho on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:29:33 EDT

"Its funny how you don't even take the time to check something out, as you sit there so sure of yourself. He directed several big hits in Hollywood among them "24 Hours" with Eddie Murphy." Pablo, congrats on winning this week's "pot calling the kettle 'black'" award. You are on the net. Click over to IMDB.com because he wasn't as successful as you think. Also, while I see they were in a relationship, I don't see that he was ever married to Midler. But don't worry, Dave's response is faulty as well through error and omission. "towards the end of his life he stopped directing films" The guy directed one film, "Rude Awakenings," before his documentary. It was completed in 1989 unless who have evidence Alan Smithee took over some projects. Russo did produce a few movies, which is a completely different job.

Comment by Matthew T. Sussman on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:25:28 EDT

"Clavos, You deserve no comment," But ... you ... just ...

Comment by Pablo on The Corrupting Influence is YOU!

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:17:58 EDT

Dave Interesting STM You are being ignored, I am in Phuket glad your not joining me.