Blogcritics Comments on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Comment by Silver Surfer on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sun, 10 Feb 2008 02:16:48 EST

Rugby League is still great game. The English competition is still getting good crowds, but sadly, I just don't think it has the oomph factor of rugby union. The great thing about PROPER rugby is that it really is a world game, and remains a constant contest for the ball even at the tackle, and especially at the set-piece which means players need to have special skills for particular positions rather than just brute strength and muscles like the biff-and-barge fest that is now rugby league. I love being able to head out to Telstra Stadium and watch the top rugby union teams in the world run around against Australia, and I'm sure it's the same up in the northern hemisphere. The problem with rugby league is that the best series now played in the world is between NSW and Queensland. It's great to watch, but back in the 70s I loved it when Great Britain came down under to play the Kangaroos. Those Test series, and the old Kanaroo tours of England which Rosey and Doc would remember, really were the pinnacle of the sport. You would find it hard to better that as a contact sport of any code, anywhere. Then they brought in the six tackle rule ... I loved seeing the English hardmen like Vince Karalius and Mal Reilly running around. And guys playing full games with broken jaws or broken arms because if you went off, you left your team a man down. That IS tough stuff.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:01:32 EST

I used to, Chris. Since Grandstand was never allowed to screen live football on Saturday afternoons, it was the next best thing! I haven't watched any of either code in years. But clearly the standards in Union have risen considerably in recent years since it went pro, and Stan is probably right that the game is more nuanced than League and therefore more satisfying to the connoisseur. Union has a huge advantage over League (in England at least) as it's not a regional sport and so has a much larger pool of talent and a bigger spectator base to draw from. League is an urban sport and the big clubs in the Manchester, Liverpool and South Yorkshire areas have always had a struggle to compete with football - even more so nowadays. The main exception, I suppose, would be Kingston-upon-Hull, where the Association code has always been the poor relation. I'm surprised Hull and Hull KR haven't been more successful in recent times.

Comment by Christopher Rose on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:49:17 EST

I'm surprised you like Rugby League more than Union, Doc. It used to be a great game but that 6 tackles rule made it about as exciting as American Rugby. I was raised on League and it was something of a sad day when it dawned on me that Union was more exciting...

Comment by Dr Dreadful on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:59:55 EST

It's only really played in three countries too: Britain, Australia and New Zealand, with minor competitions in France and New Guinea. And it's apparently on its last legs in England (not Britain: League is not played at all on any meaningful level in Scotland, Wales or Ireland). They keep buggering about with the format to make it more appealing, but it can no longer compete effectively with soccer and rugby union, especially since the latter code went pro. Which is a shame, because for the uninitiated it is an exciting game to watch - much more so than Union. They already have an elite Super League, which includes teams from France and Wales, and are now going to an American-style franchise system, with limited or no promotion and relegation - which is really going to kill the game at the grass roots. Expect a league populated almost entirely by Aussies, Kiwis and Pacific Islanders within a few years.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:46:55 EST

Likewise the "soccer's dull" is a pretty lame riposte on our front, because, well, it's not. It's just low scoring. Matt: Thank you...

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 05:33:39 EST

Here's a video of the State of Origin series. Madness. But I think you'll get the idea of how different the game is to proper rugby. It's only really played in three countries too: Britain, Australia and New Zealand, with minor competitions in France and New Guinea. It's always good to learn new stuff, eh Suss? (which is why I enjoy American football). And of course, this kind of stuff is the source of endless argument over too many beers in Australia, because in the heathen southern and western states they play an abomination of a game called Australian Football, or Aussie Rules (no rules).

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 05:04:44 EST

Suss: "Are the hits comparable to rugby union?" No, they are completely different. Lots of head-on tackling at speed, and often more than one player on the ball carrier. You tube has some good video of the State of Origin series between New South Wales and Queensland. That'll give you some idea. It's actually a very different game to rugby, despite the similarities, and in terms of strategy, most resembles American football. I used to play Rugby League, but am a fan of REAL rugby ... the other game. It has more nuances, and probably requires some greater understanding of tactical positioning etc. I can attest personally that the tackles in RL, even at the grade I was playing, were bone-rattlers. I'm not making this a contest BTW about which is better, as my favourite sport is proper rugby, and I'm also a fan of AF. It's just that RL is a really, really tough game.

Comment by Matthew T. Sussman on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 04:52:27 EST

I hear ya. Sometimes it gets a little tiresome to hear from multiple people either "they use their hands in American football" and "they use pads." Likewise the "soccer's dull" is a pretty lame riposte on our front, because, well, it's not. It's just low scoring.

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 04:43:12 EST

And mate, the rugby players used in that sports science take were Americans, and therefore not playing at the professional level like Sonny Bill and his mates in the vid above. Even in Australia, where (15-man) rugby union is played in the top tier of the world, the impact of the hits compared to the other rival (13-man) code of Rugby League just doesn't compare. The NRL in Australia is, without doubt, the toughest sports competition in the world. And then there's an interstate series that's even harder. But that's another story. On a serious note, I am well aware of the nature of the impact in AF and the athleticism required. I also realise it's a very tough outing for most of the players. However, it simply goes to number two on my list of contact sports because of the helmets and padding and the fact no player plays the full game.

Comment by Matthew T. Sussman on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 04:34:02 EST

Are the hits comparable to rugby union?

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 04:27:12 EST

Suss ... you don't read mate. I'm not talking about rugby union. RUGBY LEAGUE is a totally different game, played with 13 players and with quite similar strategies to AF. There is no constant contest for the ball like there is in rugby. It is played off a play-the-ball (or down in your parlance) with six tackles only available to move the ball up the field and score. So you can watch this. I'm not seeing anything different in AF than I see in RL, except for the padding. It's some kid's post to You Tube, but it's illustrative. PS, just in case you hadn't worked it out, Suss, the whole thing's just a bit of mocking Aussie humour, and a total gee-up. I don't for one moment believe AF players are nancy boys. Honest ...

Comment by Matthew T. Sussman on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 03:21:29 EST

Just ... just watch. If you don't want to, I'll paraphrase: NFL hits have twice the force, and rugby hits are more concentrated. I don't see how NFL players are bragging, considering you're the one bragging that ruggers are tougher.

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 03:14:42 EST

Lol. So do Rugby League players (yes, Virginia, it IS different to rugby), but they don't wear nancy-boy pads and faux motor cycle helmets. AND most of 'em play for the full 80 minutes. None of this nancy-boy one team for defence and another for attack. Yanks. Fair dinkum. What a bunch of soft...k braggarts, and with not much to brag about when it comes to proper contact sports where the contact isn't between two helmets or two sets of pads but two actual bodies :)

Comment by Matthew T. Sussman on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 03:05:59 EST

Yeah, NFL players suffer force impact equivalent to a car accident. What a bunch of pussies!

Comment by Dr Dreadful on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 02:38:01 EST

Whoops... sorry mate. Should be OK now. Unlike Ruvy, I now have access to the comments tool, so can go back and fix bollocks-ups!

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 02:29:44 EST

Yeah, nice one Doc. You've done a Ruvy. Does anyone have a magnifying glass?

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 02:28:42 EST

Doc: "Handball would indeed be a better word". Nah. What about "nancy-boy ball"?? I know, how about "helmetball". Or, "Totally padded up in case I get belted and it hurts and then I have to go off and sit down ball". ... STM's How to win friends and influence people #101 (for Americans). *Pom versions with lucid descriptions of soccer and questions regarding players' parentage and sexuality to come later.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 01:33:37 EST

The reason we're entitled to call our great game 'football' is because it's played in every country on Earth, and in all of them which are civilized ;-) it is universally called football*. The other codes are the ones which need to add something to avoid ambiguity. I can pardon the use of the term when referring to rugby or Aussie rules, because the feet are actually used to propel the ball during open play. But to refer to the American version as 'football', when the ball is never kicked except by a specialist who comes onto the field only to take place kicks and has no other role in the team, is a little ridiculous. Handball would indeed be a better word. ;-) There are several other games called handball as well, one of which - the Olympic version - is basically indoor soccer played with the hands instead of the feet. Gridiron would fit right in! _{* Except in Italy, where it's known as calcio after an ancient and unnecessarily violent version of the game which has been played since the 16th century in Florence.}

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 00:39:37 EST

Those other games have all been known as football for as long as soccer's been known as football. The clue here is in the names of the sporting organisations. The Rugby Football Union, the Rugby Football League, the Australian Football League, etc. All three of those go back to the time of the establishment of Association Football (soccer!) but don't play the round-ball code. Sorry old mate .. you don't just get first dibs on the name simply because none of you are allowed to touch the bloody bag of wind with your hands. That's the trouble with the game. Too many handbags and earrings, played by a pack of sheilas and nancy boys, and too one dimensional :) And no, I'm not talking about American Football.

Comment by Matthew T. Sussman on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Sat, 9 Feb 2008 00:24:24 EST

"Football is the game that is played primarily with the feet and that's the round ball game. All the various versions of the oval ball game are primarily played with the hands." Americans play football with their hands! Wow, that's poignant and fresh commentary! And what's the deal with airline food?

Comment by Christopher Rose on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Fri, 8 Feb 2008 06:34:51 EST

Stan, it's easy; Football is the game that is played primarily with the feet and that's the round ball game. All the various versions of the oval ball game are primarily played with the hands. Maybe they should be called Handball? Aussie Handball, American Handball, also called gridiron by some, Union Hands, League Hands...

Comment by Dr Dreadful on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Thu, 7 Feb 2008 23:53:36 EST

Just to confuse the uninitiated* further, Stan, I'd better point out to 'em that in cricket there are actually ties and draws. A tie is a match in which both sides finished with the exact same score. Because of cricket's complex scoring system they're very rare, even more so than in rugby. A draw is basically an unfinished game. The two teams can have vastly dissimilar scores, but the losing side can avoid defeat if they can slow down play so as not to complete their innings in the time allotted. Even though cricket matches can last for several days, this outcome is more common than you might think. This has been a public service announcement. _{* Seppos.}

Comment by STM on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:33:42 EST

Draws in rugby aren't that rare Rosey, especially in a tight game. Not unusual, say, to see 10-all or 14-all scoreline. But a scoreless result really is unusual. My son also played in one where both teams were playing good attacking footy but couldn't make the last pass stick, and because of the defence they were forced into errors in the opposition 22. It was unbelievably frustrating to watch. No one had their kicking boots on either, so each side missed a couple of penalty shots. We are having much debate about the S word here at the moment Rosey. The soccer nuts have started calling it football, but since Australian Rules (they should have called it no fuc.ing rules) is known as football in the heathen southern and western states, and the two codes of rugby have always been called football in the civilised eastern states of Queensland and NSW :), it's all very confusing to call soccer football. And since it's the number 4 winter sports code here (well, actually, it's now played in summer at the top level because it can't compete with the others in terms of TV air time, crowds and sponsorships), most people have decided it should still be called soccer. It's very confusing having four football codes all called football.

Comment by Christopher Rose on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:28:22 EST

That video was a classic double S, Matt, once for Shevchenko and once for sarcasm...

Comment by Matthew T. Sussman on USA Ties Mexico 2-2, So Therefore Must Be Equal In Every Way

Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:19:55 EST

Chris, everyone would use the S word.