Blogcritics Comments on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Comment by Bert on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Thu, 7 Feb 2008 03:23:11 EST

Independents for Obama? I question Obama's argument that he can get votes that Hillary cannot. Take a look at the exit polls (CNN.com/politics) and you will find that the independent voters are mostly white males. Will these same white males vote for Obama in the general election? Think about it for a moment. If one demographic group cannot bring themselves to vote for Hillary, you have to ask is it because she is in fact a "woman?" If this same demographic of voters are indeed sexist, they just may be racist also. I strongly believe that the vast number of independent voters who are voting for Obama will be voting Republican in the general election. Also, how many BLUE states has Obama won other than his home state of Illinois? Hillary can win the general election but I strongly believe that Obama cannot. Obama's biggest support is comprised of 80% African American and 50% Democratic White vote. He cannot overcome the remaining Democratic White vote, Republican votes, Latino votes or the Asian votes. I don't believe he will win in states south of the Mason/Dixon line nor will he take the midwest and western states. I think he would only win the major Democratic states...which we all know will not lead him to the White House. If Hillary could take 60% of the women vote and continues to take the Latino vote at 66% along with the Asian vote of 75%, she wins the White House.

Comment by Les Slater on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:37:22 EST

Dave and Clavos, Any comparison between 1968 and 2008 and the equating of then and now candidates is extremely superficial. Les

Comment by Clavos on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Mon, 4 Feb 2008 21:55:16 EST

Dave, I think you're on to something with the parallel to the 1968 election you drew in #37. Tonight, on separate programs, I saw both Dick Morris and Antonio Villaraigosa (Mayor of Los Angeles and Clinton backer) both invoke the memory of the 1968 race, with Morris drawing the exact same parallels between candidates then and now as you did.

Comment by Adam Ash on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:19:52 EST

You guys are making me rethink my think. Apparently Obama is catching up with Hillary nationally in the polls, too. However, as united as the Republicans may get, by now they're a distinct minority -- self-described Republicans being in the 30s compared to self-described Democrats in the 50s and 60s of the population. OK, say Obama is a surer thing than Hillary, though I still think she's a lock -- especially when all her high-school educated women come out to vote en masse. But say he's more electable -- now I'm worried about a new thing: won't Obama wimp out on a progressive agenda once he's president? For example, his healthcare plan panders more to the right and Hillary's doesn't. She'll fight tooth and nail for her ideas -- he'll reach out for consensus and the special interests could force him towards the center-right. That would be my worry about Obama as president. I want a progressive agenda enacted in the next eight years, like a kind of new New Deal. The country needs it real bad. We'll get poorer and poorer, and our poor will get bigger and bigger, if we don't get some serious infrastructure investment, alternative energy investment, education investment, and some protection for our domestic manufacturers real soon. This stuff is not going to happen if a Democratic administration bends over for special interests, who are quite happy with our rich getting richer, while our middleclass and our country gets pounded. Adam Ash

Comment by bliffle on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:00:31 EST

Of course, there are some people who would like to run the 1968 campaigns over again. It seems that the final will be between Obama and McCain, both outsiders in their parties, so maybe this is the beginning of the end for trad dems and reps.

Comment by Dave Nalle on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Mon, 4 Feb 2008 09:50:55 EST

Hillary = Hubert Humphrey Obama = Eugene McCarthy McCain = Richard Nixon It''s 1968 folks. Dave

Comment by Maurice on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Mon, 4 Feb 2008 09:43:36 EST

#36 MJW Great points. Hillary's negative factor is very high. Certainly many conservatives might vote for McCain just to vote against Hillary. I don't believe the same is true with Obama. Just as there were Reagan democrats there might well be Obama republicans. One last thing about the Obama rally here in Boise - the news is reporting that in addition to the 13 thousand people inside there were 5000 people outside enduring the cold listening to the speech.

Comment by Michael J. West on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Mon, 4 Feb 2008 09:00:38 EST

Adam, as a left-of-center Democrat, you've got it exactly backwards. I think Andrew Sullivan puts it best: "[Hillary] galvanises the conservative movement in ways no other Democrat can. Against McCain, she and she alone enables the Republicans to forget their deep internal divisions and unite. Nothing – nothing – unites them as she does. The money she will raise for the Republicans is close to the amount they can raise for themselves. If you're a hard-nosed Democrat, especially in a state that leans Republican or that voted for Bush, she is potentially toxic to your chances. No Democrat in Nebraska wants to counter an advertisement morphing his face with Hillary's."

Comment by Dave Nalle on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:12:35 EST

BTW, I am more of an Obama freak than a Hillary fanatic, but since I believe the country needs a 16-year progressive agenda to undo 8 years of neocon-theocrat-plutocracy, I favor a Clinton-Obama ticket followed by an Obama-Edwards ticket followed by an Edwards-Bloomberg ticket. If you want your eternal reich, Adam, you're making a mistake to start out with Hillary, because even 4 years of her in office will so motivate conservatives and independents that you'll see a resurgence of the right which will make more than 8 years of Democrat leadership impossible. Dave

Comment by Clavos on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:56:08 EST

Maurice #24: Sorry for the delayed response, I missed your comment until now. I'm glad to hear that Obama did well in Boise. As you say, the reddest of the red, and still he pulls them in. For my money: The guy is obviously very smart, He doesn't have a lot of baggage, His speeches show that he's got a really fresh viewpoint, Yes, he's more left than I personally would like on some issues, BUT (and it's a big but): He also emphasizes the (to me) major point that one of his highest priorities is to get US talking and working together again - that's huge (and critical) to me. You said it: "Hillary's got nothing on this man." Quoted for Truth.

Comment by Adam Ash on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 09:54:02 EST

Dave: Your #29 comment is spot-on. About a big alternative energy initiative: if Obama starts a "let's land on the moon" JFK appeal about alternative energy, with tax breaks galore to those businesses -- maybe a complete tax holiday for 10 years -- he might be remembered as a great President, up there with Lincoln and Roosevelt. Alternative energy is, as Gore says, the big moral challenge of our time as well as a practical neccesity. BTW, I am more of an Obama freak than a Hillary fanatic, but since I believe the country needs a 16-year progressive agenda to undo 8 years of neocon-theocrat-plutocracy, I favor a Clinton-Obama ticket followed by an Obama-Edwards ticket followed by an Edwards-Bloomberg ticket. Adam Ash

Comment by Silver Surfer on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 08:21:42 EST

This must be one of the most creative headlines ever for a story on BC, and doubtless it's bringing in the callers. Nice one Adam. I'm still worried about the picture, however. Scary.

Comment by Anna B on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 02:50:07 EST

Wow, thanks for the stimulating insight: "Besides, her health plan is better than his" Look at the mess health insurance "mandate" programs are creating in Massachusetts & gosh, seems like a Repug created that ... Hillary gets more repug by the year. People - please think and don't just suck up the platitudes these campaigns give you. sign me, sick of lying & insincere politicians (e.g. most repugs and the Clintons) OBAMA 2008!!!!!!

Comment by Dave Nalle on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:14:39 EST

Les, I don't think that what Obama does matters as much as how he does it. He can follow relatively moderate, reasonable policies and do it in an inclusive and articulate way and people will love him for it. Appoint popular non-political advisers and throw in a couple of new ideas that aren't controversial and everyone will agree on - like a big alternative fuel initiaitive - and you've basically got the JFK formula. Hard to go wrong. You don't have to actually do much of anything to be remembered as a great president. You just need to not fuck up and have a couple of impressive ideas. But I agree on why the Democratic party fears Obama. He's not really one of them and if he draws a lot of independent and republican votes he won't feel particularly beholden to them. Then maybe they can join back up with the religious right and start a new party. I think the name "Know Nothing" is still available. Dave

Comment by Les Slater on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:58:16 EST

Dave, "I can't speak for anyone else, but while I would consider crossing over and voting for Obama I'm not so enamored with him that putting him in a meaningless spot like VP would be enough to make Hillary Clinton an acceptable candidate." I would have to agree and of course a significant numbers of others would have the same response. All I am talking about is what I think the Democratic Party's problem with Obama is. For the reasons you state above, like considering to cross party lines, is what the Democratic Party fears. They don't fear being elected but if there is a groundswell to put not only a new face in office, but to think he's going to magically change foreign and/or domestic policy, a great many will be in for a very rude disappointment. It will look as if they'd just been hoodwinked into supporting yet another sham. This will further discredit the electoral process and the two-party system. The Clinton-Obama ticket can be sold. It will still be a chance to put a woman AND a Black man into the highest realms of power. This will be broadly attractive. As I said earlier, the only reason for the ruling class to want an Obama-Clinton ticket is if they need to make a left turn. Les

Comment by Maurice on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:48:48 EST

#26 Nalle You are killing me with this McCain crap! McCain has been in Washington too long and is as guilty of malapropisms as Norm Crosby. In 2003, McCain told The Tucson Citizen that "amnesty has to be an important part" of any immigration reform. He also rolled out the old chestnut about America's need for illegals, who do "jobs that American workers simply won't do." McCain's amnesty bill would have immediately granted millions of newly legalized immigrants Social Security benefits. He even supported allowing work performed as an illegal to count toward Social Security benefits as recently as a vote in 2006 I will never forgive McCain for being beholden to Charles Keating (Keating 5).

Comment by Dave Nalle on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:05:25 EST

As number two man on the ticket, he'd make that ticket quite electable and with Clinton at its head would not create any expectations. I can't speak for anyone else, but while I would consider crossing over and voting for Obama I'm not so enamored with him that putting him in a meaningless spot like VP would be enough to make Hillary Clinton an acceptable candidate. As for DD's assertion that Hillary hs the 'most experience', I have to disagree. She has a bit more than ONE term in elective office, total. That's all of her political experience. Before that she hadn't practiced law in years. Even Obama has more experience. He's got the same time in the Senate, plus 8 more years in the Illinois State legislature. Then there's McCain, who had a full career in the navy, with both combat experience and political experience working as naval liaison on capitol hill, followed by a few years in business, then 3 terms in the house and 3 terms in the Senate. With all that, all the other remaining candidates added together don't have as much experience. We're talking close to 50 years in public service. Dave

Comment by Clavos on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:37:59 EST

Call me crazy guys, but I just heard that "La Opini�n", published in Los Angeles, but read nationwide by Latinos, particularly Mexicans, has just endorsed Obama. "La Opini�n" is the NYT of the US Latino culture. You Anglos bear with me here. This is a BIG endorsement for the man from Illinois; one of Hillary's strongholds is the Latino vote (except for the South Florida Cubans, and she even has some of them), if she loses a significant number of them to Obama, he could kick her ass in November , what with the Independents, the cross overs, etc. That endorsement is about as big a one as the Latino sub culture has to offer; it's (IMO) bigger than Villaraigosa's and Cisneros's endorsements of Clinton. Methinks it's gonna be a hell of a horse race...

Comment by Maurice on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:34:12 EST

#21 Clavos Barack was here in Boise this morning and hit a home run. Idaho is one of the Redest of the Red States and yet the turnout for Obama was overwhelming. The rally was held in an event center that holds 13 thousand people. My son and I arrived at 7:00am and got in at 8:30am. Many people were still outside when Barack spoke at 9:00am. He apologized to those waiting outside even though they had monitors so they could hear the speech. I would consider myself a libertarian/conservative and yet am drawn to Obama. He is an articulate black man (like myself) and has the "Audacity to Hope". Hillary's got nothing on this man.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:25:40 EST

Clav, what you and Dave need to understand is that Democrats are spoiled here. My wife and I have just had a huge headache trying to decide who she should vote for in the California Democratic primary. One the one hand you have a woman who is far and away the candidate with the most experience and qualifications, in either party, to park her bum in the Oval Office; on the other, a charismatic newcomer with fresh ideas and cross-party appeal. It's a terrific but almost impossible choice. Dave: get real. Adam is not insane - just impressed.

Comment by Les Slater on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:48:19 EST

Clavos, I think it's more widespread. And I don't think it's an ideological thing either, except for some Clinton supporters. Obama would be the most electable candidate for the Democratic Party. He is a fresh face and it doesn't seem to matter that it's black. His appeal crosses party lines. Unless the Democratic Party, and the ruling class itself, decide to make a turn to the left, like in Roosevelt type programs, then he will be a liability at the top of the ticket. It's not really a question of electability it's his election would generate expectations that couldn't be fulfilled. As number two man on the ticket, he'd make that ticket quite electable and with Clinton at its head would not create any expectations. Les

Comment by Clavos on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:25:07 EST

Is it me, or does it seem like, on these threads at least, those of us who call ourselves libertarian and/or moderate-conservative in some way seem to be more impressed with Obama than those who call themselves liberal? Just askin'...

Comment by Dave Nalle on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:16:23 EST

Adam's post is certainly shrill. And it does smack of desperation. Based on everything I've seen from Adam before I'd expect him to support Obama wholeheartedly, but here he is endorsing the Democrats chief warmonger. It just seems bizarre and certainly verging on the insane. Dave

Comment by Les Slater on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sat, 2 Feb 2008 20:44:07 EST

"Everytime Dave calls a nemesis 'clinically insane' he diminishes his credibility." I'm going to have to lean toward defending Dave here. I've seen this before in 2000 and 2004. There was a layer of Democratic supporters each time that put everything into an apocalyptic relief. In 2004 Bush being re-elected would lead to a fascist dictatorship, there would never be another election. Adam's post here is not exactly a rehash of 2000 and 2004 but there are some things in common. They had/have absolutely no objective basis for believing the Democrats would carry out policies fundamentally different than the ones of Bush would, or did. Or more precisely, follow the trajectory of those policies. After all many of the Bush regime's policies were just a continuation of what had been started in the Clinton White House. As the election became closer, these Democrats became shriller. I was once called a fascist for criticizing Kerry. I concluded that this layer was seriously hysterical, a mental disorder. It doesn't necessarily end after the election either. There are still those that BELIEVE Gore won in 2000.

Comment by Suzy "Big Thighs" Grundy on Why I Pick Hillary Over Obama: She Can Crush The GOP Like The Toxic Bugs They Are

Sat, 2 Feb 2008 20:21:43 EST

I don't agree with all that name calling, but Hillary does know more about health care than anyone in the run. Its too bad Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton's voting records look like they copied off each other. Choosing between them is like comparing a York apple with an Arkansas apple.