Blogcritics Comments on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:04:55 EST

Oh, absolutely, B-Tone. But even for people without the dedication and/or Nerd Factor to plough through hundreds of pages of policy statements, a few minutes with that BBC guide will still demonstrate quite adequately that Obama is far from being an 'empty suit' as certain commenters on BC persistently claim.

Comment by Baritone on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:31:21 EST

Doc, Oh, I know that any 15 page document on a political web site will go largely unread. I didn't get past page 2. But the point was to allay the notion that Obama has not addressed issues. Actually, I'm sure all of the candidates' respective web sites go into some detail with the campaign issues. I'm sure they all enlist an adequate # of policy wonks to produce at least the semblance of position papers. But people like Stephanie above (#20) who claim that, in this case, Obama has no platform just illustrates how lazy some people are. Had she taken a couple of minutes as you suggest, she hopefully would not have made such a claim. Unfortunately, there are those who would accept it as gospel. B-tone

Comment by Clavos on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:13:15 EST

"I discovered this the other day, while trying to find a .wav file of such a sound with which to illustrate a similarly smart-assed comment of mine. I was not successful." With the comment, or...?

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 01:29:19 EST

Er, no, Clav, you're the one the drummers' union will be after. That little noise (which, for the benefit of anyone over whose head those last couple of comments may have gone, was meant to represent the drum riff traditionally used by bad comics to reinforce their punchlines) is technically known in the biz as a sting. A rimshot is actually the sound produced by striking the rim and the skin of the drum simultaneously. I discovered this the other day, while trying to find a .wav file of such a sound with which to illustrate a similarly smart-assed comment of mine. I was not successful.

Comment by Clavos on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:44:12 EST

You're not supposed to rim-shot your own quips, Doc. You'll have the drummers union on your ass, you keep that up...

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:28:36 EST

Caveat to the above: the Mitt Romney section may not have been updated within the last 20 minutes. Ba-DOOM-boom-TSSSHH!!!

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:27:24 EST

To be fair, fifteen pages of Obama's or anyone else's health care proposals is probably enough to make even the most discerning voter's eyes glaze over. In which case, I again highly recommend this handy clickable guide from the BBC which gives an excellent overview of the leading candidates' positions on key issues.

Comment by Baritone on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:21:59 EST

Doc is correct about Obama's site. If you scroll down his laundry list of issues to "Health Care" and click on the PDF, it brings up a fifteen page detailed outline of his health care plan. It's the same for most of the other issues on which he has a position. B-tone

Comment by Clavos on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:20:08 EST

Correction to my #30: Should have read: "..and always have voted republican at presidential level, while often (though not always) voting democratic or other at state and local level." [Mumbles] Got to sharpen those editing skills...

Comment by Clavos on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:14:44 EST

Don't take it too far, handy. Most (but not all) of my contempt for Kerry has to do with various aspects of his service in Vietnam, not so much with his political views, though I'm pretty far from him politically. His endorsement, whether for Obama or anyone else, means virtually nothing to me. Most of my consideration of Obama is based on what I perceive to be a fine mind (though still largely unproven and unfocused) and especially his seeming ability to reach out and appeal to a wide variety of voters. As I said before, he appears to be a "uniter." I like that. We need it. Also, I'm literally a RINO. In Florida, you MUST declare a party in order to be able to vote in the primaries, so I registered as a republican, and usually (though not always) have voted republican at presidential level, while often voting democratic or other at state and local level. If anything, I consider myself an indie with a conservative libertarian weltanschauung.

Comment by handyguy on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:35:05 EST

I find the juxtaposition of Dave's [snarky] question about Kerry costing Obama votes, and [vehemently anti-Kerry Republican] Clavos's revelation that he might consider voting for Obama...interesting, to say the least. Endorsements come and go and don't always mean much, but still.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:39:33 EST

@ #20: Obama doesn't have any policy or platform. Oh, for goodness' sake. Stephanie, do try and get a synapse to fire inside your skull every so often. Just think about the idiocy of your statement. Why in heck would anyone make a serious run for political office without having a platform? I am certain that you have swallowed hook, line and sinker all the anti-Obama bullshit. I am equally certain that you have not been here, pointed your mouse over the 'Issues' button and spent a few minutes learning everything you need to know about Obama's platform. Enjoy.

Comment by Baritone on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:46:02 EST

Clav, I think that's great. Not whether you vote for Obama, but that you are open and thoughtful enough to give it serious consideration. I have pretty much always voted democratic, but I have always voted for Richard Lugar in the Senate. I don't necessarily agree with his politics, but I believe him to be an intelligent and honest man. I may well have voted for him as president a few years back when he toyed with the idea of running. Unfortunately, Lugar isn't particularly charismatic, and he's not known well enough nationally to garner a serious following. You certainly are correct about the president/manager comparison. A good manager picks his people, makes sure they know their jobs and then gets out of the way as much as possible. Among other short comings, Nixon was not a good manager. I think Kennedy was, and so too was my favorite guy, Ron Reagan. Clinton wasn't bad at managing others, he just couldn't control himself. Obama seems to have put together a pretty well organized, loyal and well managed campaign team. I also agree with you that his particular political leanings may not coincide with some, but, if he proves to be a truly good manager, that shouldn't matter a great deal. Actually, I think Obama is only a bit left of center on most significant issues. That shouldn't be too objectionable to most, except for extremists on both sides. If nothing else, Obama should be able to articulate his ideas to both his staff and the public at large. This is the first election in a long time that I have actually been excited about. The last two I was more worried than excited. B-tone

Comment by Clavos on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:42:45 EST

B, I completely agree with you. As I'm sure you know, what you describe in your comment is the very essence of a superior manager. And what is a good president, if not a superior manager? The one thing we don't yet know about Obama is his ability to pick people well, surround himself with them, and most important, let them do the job he hired them for with minimal interference (but lots of coordination) on his part. I spent 30 years in administration, and like to think I was very good at it (at least I was told so many times by my own bosses). From that experience I learned that the above formula works, and works well. If he's elected, and if he can do all that, his actual political leanings will count less (because of checks and balances), and we will have gained something we sorely need right now: a real leader. Speaking as a man who has never in his life voted Democratic at presidential level, I see Obama as the most impressive candidate from either party this election, despite his lack of experience. Many people have correctly observed that at this juncture in our national life, we need a "uniter," not a "divider." Obama looks like he can do that. I haven't completely made up my mind yet (I never do until I pull the lever or touch the screen), but I may well vote for him next November.

Comment by Baritone on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:47:23 EST

Clav, While I think Hillary is far better than many will give her credit, I won't argue the point with you. Obama has a stature, an elegance, and certainly an eloquence that none of the other candidates can muster - somewhat reminiscent of Kennedy, actually. I know all that does not a president make. However, I think the more successful presidents in the past were so largely because of the people they brought into their administrations to actually carry out the business of running the government. In some respects, a president is a figurehead, but of course he (or she) must be a decision maker (or as GW would say - a "decider.") In the end a successful president will surround him or her self with people who can do their jobs effectively, properly representing and advising the president to give him or her the best possible information from which to make decisions. I know that sounds nearly hyperbolic, but I believe it to be true. Sadly, and all too often the people chosen by presidents have proven to be wanting in their ability to carry out their respective duties, and consequently many presidents have made bad decisions, often based on erroneous information, say like Saddam's WMDs. It's all of a piece. B-tone

Comment by Clavos on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:02:37 EST

"He is an intelligent man whose greatest ability may be in placing the right people around him. We'll see." He IS intelligent; and, if he can pick his people well, that would be most of what he'd need. I think he stands head and shoulders above Hillary. Literally and figuratively.

Comment by Dave Nalle on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:02:22 EST

What I'm wondering about is how many votes the Kerry endorsement is going to cost Obama. Dave

Comment by Baritone on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:52:50 EST

I don't know that Gore will endorse anyone. I doubt seriously that he will throw his hat in the ring, but if he were to publicly get behind any one candidate, it would make it difficult for him to then go against that endorsement and campaign on his own behalf. The only way I could see Gore gaining any traction, though, is if there were a stalemate at the August convention with him stepping in to break it. I doubt that it will come to that, though. I hope not. Gore has been the punch line for too many jokes over the last several years for enough voters to take him seriously. It looks more likely that the Reps might wind up with a brokered convention if no clear candidate comes out of the primaries. While I lean toward Clinton at this point, I have no objections to an Obama nomination. I don't think he lacks substance. He is an intelligent man whose greatest ability may be in placing the right people around him. We'll see. Baritone

Comment by Robin on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:02:11 EST

I hope Al Gore endorses Hillary Clinton. He won't endorse the same candidate that John Kerry has endorsed so that rules Barack Obama out. He won't endorse John Edwards because he isn't going to win the nomination, so that leaves Clinton, who just happens to have the closes environmental policy and Senate voting record to match Gore. If Al Gore is serious about the environment, then he will endorse Hillary Clinton now!

Comment by Stephanie on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:58:31 EST

Bill Clinton's comments were never racial in any way of course. I will honestly state here that Obama doesn't have a policy or a platform, and instead he goes on with rhetoric regarding change, hope, Moses, Joshua, blah, blah, blah, while Hillary Clinton has detailed policy 90 minute question and answer sessions, and my comment hasn't got anything to do with colour because I would say it about anybody that has nothing to say. Obama doesn't have any policy or platform. Obama doesn't have any substance. Obama has words without any reason to believe them. I'm actually sick of the rubbish between the candidates, and I want the process to be about issues, ideas and the ability of the candidates. Common sense will then lead to a Hillary Clinton nomination.

Comment by Baritone on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:37:15 EST

Handy, My comment above was directed to Hel's comment. I agree with you about what I characterize as vitriol against the Clintons. Are they opportunistic? Yes. Are they determined? Yes. Have dastardly things been done on their behalf? Probably so. While it doesn't paint a particularly flattering picture of our political reality, I think anyone would be hardpressed to find the same NOT true of most anyone who has achieved any level of success in the political arena. It's a harnknock business, not for the faint of heart or the weak of will. I can't say that I like it, but that is, sadly I guess, the way it is. B-tone

Comment by Baritone on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:31:36 EST

That only shows that there is divison amongst the Black community as well, as it should be. Cheap shot? Perhaps. There will be more to come. Do you imagine that the Clintons have not endured cheap shots in bundles? Anyone in public life must accept that or get out of the limelight. While it's becoming more difficult, if you listen to Hillary and Barack - not their lackeys - they are doing everything within their ability to avoid personal attacks. I believe that they both like and respect each other. I would expect whoever looses the nomination - including Edwards (remember him?) - to get behind the ultimate nominee. I don't see either Obama or Clinton accepting a VP nod. For Hillary it would be too humiliating given her position. Should she loose this nomination, in my view her presidential aspirations are done. I think it would be politically imprudent for Obama to take up residence in the "Admiral's House." He has the likelihood of a long political career even if he looses the presidential nod this time around. He's young. It would not serve him in the long run to be identified with someone else's administration, especially a failed administration. Should he not win the Dem nomination, I think he'd be best served to step back, bide his time and make a charge down the road in a few years. He should be able to maintain his Senate seat. He should stay visible. Do the political media circus, er I mean circuit. If he can distinguish himself there, it would help him get beyond any of those "experience" issues. [I expect a call from Obama's people any day now to confer with me on this very issue.{;-)-<] But, who knows, he's still very much in the mix now. He may well carry the day before or at the latest, coming out of the August Convention in Denver. Then the race will be off and running to November. May the best Democrat win! B-tone

Comment by handyguy on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:21:25 EST

Baritone, people who really hate the Clintons rarely see any room for interpretation when Bill & Hillary say or do anything. They see them as Bad, Evil, Opportunistic, Terrible People. It's boring and it's not particularly logical, but it seems to be a visceral thing.

Comment by Heloise on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:30:13 EST

"Barack Who?" was one of my titles for an article. Now you see why I used that title. Black people who are not on the Internet, and they don't watch the damn news don't know who's running and who ain't. THe digital divide strikes again. Heloise

Comment by Heloise on Bill Clinton Calling and Calling and Calling

Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:30:12 EST