Hall of Fame Eludes Andre Dawson, But Why?
Published January 10, 2008
Batter up Billy Williams:
18 seasons; 2711 H, 1410 R, 434 2B, 88 3B, 426 HR, 1045 BB, .290 BA, .361 OBP, .492 SLG.
Williams won Rookie of the Year in 1961 and was a six time All-Star. He never won MVP, but he finished runner up in 1970 and 1972. Overall, he led the league more often in various offensive categories than any of the aforementioned players. Defensively, Williams was not as prolific as any of the players selected here.
Bonus!
Jim Rice:
If the case for Dawson seems compelling if not obvious, Jim Rice also has a case to present.
16 seasons; 2452 H, 1249 R, 373 2B, 79 3B, 382 HR, 670 BB, .298 BA, .352 OBP, .502 SLG.
Ironically, Rice is the only player cited here other than Dawson to have won an MVP. Rice — who apparently had the personality of one angry piece of rice. The image of angry rice continues to haunt me — was an eight time all-star and won the Silver Slugger twice. He led the league in various categories more time than any player considered here.
I’m beginning to wonder if Dawson and Rice are inadvertently considered to be the cut-off point for baseball writers who have a vote.
Yet, in light of these facts, a player like Dale Murphy seems to fit the borderliner bill better.
Here’s one last thing to consider by way of Bill James’s Black and Gray Ink measures. Black ink measures the amount of times a player led the league in a category, the Gray ink considers top 10 finishes.
Black Ink – Hall of Fame standard is 27. All-time rank in parenthesis.
Rice 33 (49)
Williams 18 (123)
Kaline 12 (190)
Dawson 11 (206)
Winfield 4 (403)
Gray Ink – Hall of Fame standard: 144
Kaline 228 (26)
Williams 208 (35)
Rice 176 (57)
Dawson 164 (67)
Winfield 152 (84)
Hmpf. Seems to me just by looking at the above figures, is it enough to conclude that if Winfield, Kaline and Williams are in, then Dawson and Rice should be too?
What’s that old saying? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
- Hall of Fame Eludes Andre Dawson, But Why?
- Published: January 10, 2008
- Type: Opinion
- Section: Sports
- Filed Under: Sports: Baseball
- Writer: Alessandro Nicolo
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Comments
Yeah, I always found such stats interesting. Former Edmonton Oiler Glen Anderson has 498 goals and 1099 points. What a nag.
Mario Lemieux notched 199 points in one season. ONE MORE POINT and he becomes only the second player to reach 200 points behind guess who - 99. What a nag.
Its the "Hall of Fame" not the "Hall of the pretty good." Neither Dawson or Rice met those magical numbers, 3000 or 500. They also played a long time to get those numbers, so their averages per season aren't that great. Thats why they aren't in and never will be
Aaron, those numbers are magical insofar they can't deny players entry but it's by no means the final judgment in my opinion. Good point notwithstanding neither Winfield or Williams meet the criteria and they are in.
Dawson and Rice played less than those players to boot.
If stats alone were the criteria, then there would be no voting and no debate -- you'd either be in or out, no question. It's probably a good thing that there is subjective voting. But the system does seem to be flawed (although not as much as the veteran's committee). Why is it that so many players get more and more votes each year until they finally get in. How does the passage of time change the measure of their accomplishments? Next year Rickey Henderson will probably make it in 1st ballot. But his votes will hamper Dawson's & Rice's. It shouldn't make a difference, but it will. Players who deserve to be in (Ron Santo) don't make it while other players get in who don't have the resume. Oh well.
Great article, Alessandro. Love the Bill James stats. The fact that Jim Rice lead his league in stats 33 times - better than the HofF standard of 27 - to Dave Winfield's 4 times says it all.
He should have been a no brainer Hall of Hamer. He was dominant and one of the most feared hitters of is era for at least 10 years. The only reason his numbers aren't as impressive as others is because he only played about 14 full seaons (that's just a guess).
He didn't have enough mediocre years at the end of his career to get to what used to be the magic number of 400 HRs and get close to 3000 hits. Baseball writers who just look at his 382 HRs and don't vote for him don't get it and probably never will. How does guys like Tony Perez make the Hall and not Jim Rice? What a joke.
Charlie and bleacherbummer, your comments combined remind me of a friend of mine who grew up watching baseball in the 70s. No doubt in his opinion, Rice,Dawson and Santo belong.
Do you think Rice not being in has anything to do with him being tagged as a jerk?
Charlie, amazing stat indeed! Heck, even Dawson beats him out! Despite this, I believe Winfield still belongs.
BB, interesting take on Henderson. It is what it is I guess.
Alessandro, it's just a guess, but I would say many years ago some of those 500+ baseball writer did hold a grudge against Rice (rightly or wrongly I don't know cuz I have no personal insight) for how he allegedly treated them in post-game interviews and elsewhere. I've heard that when reporters switched to subjects other than the game he just played, Rice got aggravated and had an attitude about it. [Whether his beef with reporters or their beef with him was legitimate shouldn't matter anyway. It was what it was.]
The Bob Ryans and Dan Shaughnessys of the world could probably give you a better answer than me since they've been covering Boston sports forever, but I don't think his off-the-field behavior has had any effect on writers' recent voting tallies, with results climbing closer and closer to that 75% mark. In fact, I think Jim Rice got within 16 votes of being elected to the Hall this time around, which has to be the closest he's ever been.
Those other 16 better get their act together and get this man in to the Hall next year, along with Dawson and Billy Williams, and perhaps Blylevin too.
I agree with your assessment. Thanks.
The "Goose" should have been there sooner and the "Hawk" and Jim Rice should be there now. Here's a good one: Kirby Puckett,nice guy,darling of the game gets in.........Albert Bell - not so nice,doesn't even get a mention. Compare their stats!What do think is gonna happen when Bobby Alomar comes up? Remember the "incident"? Does he have the stats? or will that incident be indelibly stamped on his HOF resume? What's it all about Alessandro?
In my opinion, Alomar is a shoe in. Belle I'm not so sure - he has solid numbers. Tough one.
I remember being at Fenway Park with my dad and watching Jim Rice smash three home runs in one game. The guy was larger than life at the time. I say put him in the hall.
Hawk should be in the hall as well as Robbie Alomar, and while Kirby got in with less then stellar numbers just remember his career, and life was cut short..
Kirby was also a really loved ambassador of the game, and even with his lack of Hall of Fame credentials he still was so loved that he was a clear choice to make it to the HALL.
I can't say the same for Belle who had similar numbers but he insisted in being a "BADBOY" during his career, and became someone who both the media, and fans hated.
Notice once his career ended prematurely that nobody wanted to talk about him again? Belle should NEVER be in the hall of fame.
Evildoer believes character is an important component on who gets in.
Fair enough.
But here's the rub: there are already many a-holes in the Hall.
Should it be a criteria?




2 more triples.
Would've given him a perfect 100.
First ballot.
No doubt.