Whereas I agree with you on many points, I'd like to know if you have any specific suggestions. I didn't see any in your article. Because if you don't and you're a libertarian and Paul supporter as you say, what's your point? Just trying to be right?

Thank you. I feel the same way. I am very worried about alienating long-time GOP voters when it is still possible to sway them to Paul. Why do you think Huckabee is surging in the polls? Despite what some people want to think, polls actually do matter. They do tap into a massive and loyal electorate. We need this group of voters to win.

You have to win over hearts and minds, true!! But, you also have to be level-headed and realize that people don't like being told that what they think they think is wrong. Understand that they bought into the rhetoric, just like many of us (myself included), and now they have to find a way out. It is essential that it be a smooth transition. The best way is to let them educate themselves at their own pace. That is probably how YOU know so much at Dr Paul. You probably wouldn't appreciate someone aggressively pushing him in your face... so why would you think they'd appreciate it either?

To many faithful GOPers, this is about loyalty; they want to be loyal to the party yet they do want to do the right thing. It's your job as an RP supporter to convince them that he does represent the core values of the party; that he is a Republican to stand up and be proud of. But it also means that you must always be respectful. And more importantly, it takes compromise to get things done-- and that means playing their game.

Oh, so sad. Im a Republican voter in Maryland and yes I am voting for the Doctor.

Too bad only 6% of Republican voters voted in the 2004 election. With the big and new voter group joining, the Republican party is growing.

Look at why the Republicans had more viewers during their CNN debate.

Ron Paul is getting his attention over the internet because the media and their owners dont want anybody to know what he will do for the American people.

Give them their freedom of real choice and the founders as they envisioned this great country.

So, I see fear in writers like you and people who are part of the power hungry elite.

Vote Ron Paul 2008

You have got to be kidding! This post is so rife with misstatements, misrepresentations and outright lies that to respond to each individually would probably overwhlm the server. Then you would probably report "Ron Paul Spammer Shuts Down Server"!

Suffuce it to say, only ONE 'Straw Poll was 'shut down'- the one in San Francisco when Ron Paul supporters, who were INVITED and PAID for themselves TO BE THERE were found to be in such numbers that the organizer hastily cancelled the straw poll, as her preferred candidate (fred Thompson) would have been embarrased by the result. Of course, you make no mention of the documented attempts by the Romney Campaign and others to buy votes, stuff the ballot boxes and other underhanded tricks in order to win straw polls.

I could go on, but that's just one example. Are you REALLY trying to say that in order to win the Republican Nomination, Dr. Paul has to abandon his principles and change his philosophy to pander the leadership- er... excuse me, 'The Party Base'???? That may be the strategy of Huckabee, Romney, Giuliani et al, but Ron Paul's adherence to principles is the primary reason for his broad support. Apparently you are so jaded and out-of-touch with mainstream America that you feel disingenuity is an actual ATTRIBUTE for a candidate!

As for your assertion that the party base is not in tune with Ron Paul's posiions, I have to vehemently disagree. This is only anecdotal evidence (but no more so than your assertions), but I have been canvassing Registered Republicans in my local precinct for the Paul Campaign. Among these Registered Republicans, when I talk with them about Ron Paul, his positions and ideas on how to run the country, I have found that about 90% support and identify with Dr. Paul! And I live in a HEAVILY republican area. There are many who have become so disgusted with the party's direction over the past few years that they long for a 'Straight-Shooter' like Ronald Reagan. That would be antithetical to the type of panderer you contend the Dr. must become to win them over.

In conclusion, I must object to you presenting your personal views as 'facts' then drawing a faulty conclusion from them that Ron Paul will lose. The strong and deeply held suppport for Ron Paul is evident in just about every measure except for the outdated and highly biased 'Scientific Polls'. Most of these Polls don't even list Ron Paul as a choice, and fail to use proper sampling and other methodology to give an accurate portrayal of what they are supposed to be measuring. I look more to statistics like volunteers, actual donations from individuals and organized support at the grassroots level. Ron Paul dominates on all those fronts.

I look forward to you eating your words when you and much of the punditocracy is shocked and surprised when the polls open and Dr. Paul closes the deal.

xtrabiggg
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We didn't alienate any voters at the San Francisco straw poll. I ought to know being there and having talked to a good many of the gray haired there.

This article is a bit ludicrous and presents Paul supporters as something the are not. They are enthusiastic, not nuts, regardless of how hard the media tries to paint them this way.

haha good ole Dave Nalle.. you are always right dude.. always right.. even when your wrong you are always right..

Vote Ron Paul

I can't wait till he win the primairies..

I am going to send you a personal email of...


hahahahahahahaa!!!!!! hahahahaha! and that's it.

The only thing that needs tamed is this torturous administration. Paul supportors realize we need a congress that works with him in his presidency and if you pay close attention you will see the reverberation into the local level. He doesn't need ABC or MSNBC to have his message heard because the people are his outlet and are doing quite alright. CNN just ran a story about Huckabee's web traffic skyrocketing but when you take a look into the message boards and you find satirical pictures and hilarious comments that could only come from one group of supporters (and its damn sure not Hucks).

So the thrust of the article is "Good ideas? Enthusiasm? Wide appeal? THIS MEANS NOTHING. YOU MUST APPEAR THE PARTY ELITE. IF YOU DON'T YOU ARE AN IDIOT".

At what point does the author look into the mirror and realize what a piece of unethical, unintelligent trash they are?

Whereas I agree with you on many points, I'd like to know if you have any specific suggestions. I didn't see any in your article. Because if you don't and you're a libertarian and Paul supporter as you say, what's your point? Just trying to be right?

I sort of thought the answer to this question was obvious. Paul supporters need to be less confrontational, less self-righteous and act less like they're launching a coup and more like they're trying to support a reasonable candidate for the presidency. It would also help if those of them who are sane would try to talk some sense into the crazier ones or at least get them to keep quiet when talking to outsiders.

Dave

While i can see where you get your point, I do think that over the last few weeks his numbers have grown and they will keep growing. I remember after the last election people were complaining about having to vote for the lesser of two evils. But this time there actually appears to be someone...well...different. Paul does not fit in with the crowd, he is challenging the status quo in a way that has not been seen in long time. I think people are drawn to this and get inspired, that is why I feel we as his supporters are so passionate in our convictions. Something has been bubbling up inside of us, and we are realizing we are not alone.

It is the Republican Party officials that are alienating the Ron Paul supporters. The GOP officials don't want Ron Paul, but in our system of government, it is supposed to be the people who elect the President, not the GOP officials. That is where the conflict lies.

Comment #2 is dead on, especially with this point:

And more importantly, it takes compromise to get things done-- and that means playing their game.

Compromise is something which Paul and even moreso his supporters seem completely unable to accept. It's what is going to trip them up at every stage in the process.

When they get to their precinct conventions and try to take over instead of working with the precinct chairman and his pals who've been running things for years, they're going to get shut out instead of getting their fair share of delegates. The same at the county and state levels.

Hostility is going to build until it reaches some of the inside circles and suddenly things will get very nasty and dirty tricks will start and it's going to get very, very ugly.

But maybe it will be entertaining. Been a while since we've had a fistfight on the floor of a national convention. Could be fun.

Dave

Xtgrabigg's comments in #4 seem to be based on reading an entirely different article from the one I posted.

Where did I say that Paul had to change his positions or that mainstream Republicans were against his positions? I believe I actually said pretty much the exact opposite.

It's not Paul's beliefs which are the problem, it's the behavior of certain of his supporters, many of whom like to show up on discussions like this one and prove my point again and again.

Dave

Ron Paul's campaign does not operate like a faucet, where you can control the flow of it. That is exactly the reason why it has so much momentum. People are allowed to express their ideas and themselves without limits. In a campaign about freedom, it is unfeasible for you to suggest Ron Paul's campaign must stifle some of his supporter's creativity.

Your reasons given for what will be the downfall of Paul's campaign are coincidentally the same reasons that he has such strong support now. So your analysis is completely backwards. But your greatest fault is in this quote...

"Lots of mainstream Republicans have basically libertarian values and will support a libertarian-leaning candidate, but they won't support someone they perceive as hostile to the Republican party and its interests."

Hostile ot the Republican party?? Either you have blurred the differences between Ron Paul and certain groups of his supporters, or you have no IDEA of what Paul's views are. Your careless writing suggests much about your intentions of this argument.

The "disruption" that has caused some straw polls to be cancelled seems to be showing up to vote.

It's pretty clear that the only reason these were cancelled was because Paul's supporters showed up with enough people to win.

If the "Media" does not select him for the final two, I and many will write him in anyway. I can't see changing my vote. Less of two evils be damned. I vote for the Constitution to mean something again. This might be my last chance. THEY will continue to trim the Constitution down to nothing. I am voting for him because he is change. I am glad he does not tow the party line. It's time to give the finger to policies of today. We the people should be in control not the other way around. If we do not do something now, our children will not know freedom as our parents knew it. Their children will not even know what they have lost. It only takes a couple of generations to make people forget. Look what happened with the WWII volunteer victory tax. It did not take long to fool us into thinking we had to pay it as income tax. By code not law. And when you know and fight the illegality of it they prosecute us. Change is what we need to reestablish a more perfect union. But that is just me.

Sorry guys but this man is right. If you assume he's wrong and do nothing to change then we'll all see who's strategy worked best by the time we get to mid Febrauary.

Wake up...we're an asset but also a liability.

wake up

Its different generations. Its not the 45+ Ron Paul crowd that's commenting so frequently online, and forcing the party to change. Its the college students who are really shifting things. They can't be controlled. (Herding cats and all that) They won't listen to common sense, and it will be the failure of the campaign when they finally wake up to how stupid it is to constantly attack attack attack.

You are gravely mistaken though, as to why the San Francisco Republicans ended the straw poll. Fred Thompson's supporter was given over an hour to speak. No similar time was given to representatives of other campaigns, not even other tier-1 candidates. The idea that Ron Paul's supporters caused this is silly. This was the fault of the SFRepublicans trying to pull a fast one and getting caught in the act.

I disagree with your article. The reason he gets so many voters to like him is because of what he stands for and how upfront he is about his thoughts. If he changes he is going to be like the rest sad lot of the republicans candidates. My husband is a very conservative republican and has never missed a vote at the general elections but has never voted in the primaries. For the last 4 years he's been voting for the Democrats even if he loathes them. He will be voting in the primaries and plans to vote for the general election only if Ron Paul is the candidate, if not he's voting Democrat again.
You talk about the fanatic followers. I consider myself a normal voter but I have become as fanatical as all the other voters for Ron Paul because of how the press is treating him. On the last CNN debate he was completely ignored and heck, Hunter and Tancredo got more questions than Ron Paul and we know these guys are going nowhere.
If you go back to history, Winston Churchill right until before the war was considered by parliament (specially his own party) and the press as quixotic, eccentric and out of reality and all because what he said was the truth. He was a journalist for a newspaper and there was great pressure from the government and including the press to stop him from writing. When Germany invaded France he became prime minister because he was the only true leader who had been loyal to his principals and convictions and had the courage to face a very grim future for Great Britain. And lets not forget that the people loved him no matter what the press or the government said. Read: "The Last Lion Alone".
I believe Ron Paul is that kind of leader. What he says is the truth and people love him for that. His voting record in congress speaks by itself.
I believe he has a great chance of winning in the primaries because a lot people might like a candidate but that doesn't mean they will vote for him in the primaries. I believe every single Paulite will vote even if there is hurricane cat 5. You'll see.

'There is a large element of self-righteous fanaticism'

This is the same reason the Gitmo dumping warmongering neocon base will lose to Hillary.

buh bye

Mate, should I just grab a deck chair and a cold six-pack and sit back and watch while the ice-cream hits the fan??

Good on you Dave - someone needed to write this.

You're not very specific in this article. You speak in big general sweeping statements, and I do not believe they are supported by the reality.

RP supporters are getting into the trenches of the GOP as we speak. It's not so bad as you think it is. And even if it were, what are you doing with your local Ron Paul Meetup group to help change their behavior?

I agree the long-time Republicans may be a little upset. I have seen that they may also be a little threatened because power is shifting.
Sure, some people can get excited. We should try to fit in better at events like the Virginia "retreat" by being overly overly overly courteous.

What tangible suggestions do you have? After all, this is a revolution that is showing the fakeness of our same-platform two-party system.

Ron Paul supporters are the one's who have been alienated, not the other way around. The liberal Republicans don't like Dr. Paul's message, but they get flattened every time they try to debate him on the issues so the only thing they have left is the highly disingenuous complaint about his supporters; a manufactured non-issue.

What a joke... Ron Paul supporters respect his decision to run as a REpublican just as they do for when he did it 10 TIMES AS A CONGRESSMAN.

This article really shows a high amount of ignorance on the writers behalf. The bottom line it all comes down to a few things.

1. This is one of the biggest elections if not the biggest one in American history.
2. People are fed up, and though the national polls might not say it yet... but Ron Paul can be gettin close to being the GOP frunt runner.
3. WILL RP win NH or get top 2 in IOWA,SC?

December 16th by the way.. this sunday.. Ron Pauls gonna break every campaign donation record in history. So if that momentum continues to the primaries... the "NEO-REPUBLICAN BASE" can say good bye to this war.

Sad to say, but I agree with some of this. The media continues to try to paint RP supporters as 'lunatic fringe' and some of us fall right into their hands. They can prop us up and say 'see? crazy.' The general public is to lazy/stupid to actually research some of the 'issues' so the DO sound little crazy. I implore those of us who are trying to spread the word to try to restrain in tying to explain the more complicated issues and stick to the 'main platform.'

That being said, I've run across many 'GOP blue hairs' that support Paul and his message. Don't allow the media to paint us all as crazies (even if we are :)

I think it is important to understand that the RP revolution is an organic movement. Therefore, placing restrictions would hamper the campaign and drive a lot of people out. By being organic, there are real risks, as you have stated, but there are also great rewards (which are being realized). Between now and caucuses, we hope that RP will discuss the practical realities of his ideas (what he will do), and also let people get to know him as a person rather than his ideas.

Good article, unfortunately. Dr. Paul has great support, and his ability to motivate those who are disenfranchised cannot be denied or downplayed. That's not enough though.
This article was written from a sympathetic perspective, yet RP supporters still feel defensive reading it. If constructive criticism cannot be evaluated objectively, the game is over.
The MSM avoidance of RP is not some horrid plot to deny him his due. Right or wrong, these very conservative and mainstream media elites feel that RP is an embarrassment to the Republican party. He shows the unpopularity of the war, of politicians who pander for votes, and of the corruption inherent in a bloated political system. And no matter how vhemently supporters want to deny it, those old issues of the Ron Paul Political Report are insurmountable barriers. (A few of his other speeches are also time bombs waiting in the wings.) If the Republican establishment doesn't use them to torpedo Dr. Paul, the Democrats sure will. And it *will* work, no matter the excuses or explanations.
Dr. Paul is strong on civil rights and civil liberties, but his principles are blind to endemic societal discrimination, and anti-discrimination legislation that alleviates the worse such abuses. (And maybe his position is consistent, but that is not enough.)
Dr. Paul is making valuable contributions to the debate. He demonstrates:
*The American public wants to believe in our country.
*Many feel our government does not represent us.
*We insist on our inalienable rights as embodied in the Bill of Rights.
*The economy is in terrible shape for many sectors of our society. If the GOP wants to win in 08, they *must* acknowledge this and offer real solutions, not empty promises.
*Many feel that war isn't a political game for partisan advantage. Our soldiers are dying for the wrong reasons and it is actually hurting our economy and our military readiness.
*The rhetoric of the "war on terrorism" is hollow fear mongering of the worst sort, and many resent it.
I think Dr. Paul's contribution will have a lasting impact. Other GOP candidates are adopting his rhetoric already. In the last debate, others mentioned the Constitution, our founding fathers, and even the "nanny state."
I wish other candidates weren't just pandering to whatever audience they address. They are so transparent and pathetic - hollow of any conviction except that they want to rule with an iron fist. Maybe it isn't their fault entirely. Media, and media savvy viewers have advanced, but the political processes and games have yet to catch up. People know when they see liars spouting garbage.
No matter how well Dr. Paul does in this campaign, he shows that we want more than hollow promises and platitudes. We want pragmatic, effective government, and we want a government of laws, not of men.
I hope other politicians are listening to this subtext, really recognizing what Dr. Paul's support indicates. The game is changing, and the Dr. Paul movement shows the new direction. Any politician with a modicum of integrity who recognizes this shift and gets in tune with it will benefit.

Dave
It is my opinion that you do not know what you are talking about and that you have too much free time on your hands.

I'm a life long 30 year Republican and I support RON PAUL.

I truly enjoy seeing the new and potentially world changing young folks that support Ron Paul, and thus, may re-energize and refocus the direction of the GOP!

Dave-you must enjoy a $9 trillion deficit, $3 gas, inflation, and the US policing the world- some people don't.

You sound like a cheap regurgitation of the dinosaur media.

Some of the concerns you point out sound legitimate, but I have to say I don't agree with most of what you said. The GOP is so far from its original course that nothing can be done to save it. 98% of Ron Paul supporters are courteous people, and I don't see how they are going to crash all their hopes and dreams....

Ron Paul can't win because he speaks the truth. The public doesn't want specific truch it expects pre-canned pandering, ambiguous platitudes, and a charismatic persona. If you're not a jovial compulsive liar you have no chance at public office.

Dave IF you know soooo much and are soooo smart why don't you take a look at the money flow? The grassroots movement for Dr. Paul seems huge to me.

Practically all of you modern day 'political experts' seem to be missing Dr. Paul's HUGE internet base. You seem so naive to think all
these folks communicating thru the web and using small donations to total BIG money will stay at home and play video games on primary day.

The political scene in America is changing. The internet door swings wide open--and it doesn't care if you've been a career Republican or not! Dr Paul may not win--but he may win! And, if this movement keeps growing expotentially--it will be a force that WILL change the USA.

Yes, the other candidates are listening....and changing their game plan and speeches to mimic Ron Paul's. If Ron Paul doesn't get elected, it won't be because of his followers. It will be because of rigged elections via electronic voting machines by DieBold and gang that have been proven to be untrustworthy.

The fear factor in the stock market has been increasing of late.

This fear, which does not originate from the stock market, but from real uneasiness about things in general, and especially economic, is reflected in politics. The attractiveness of Ron Paul is a direct manifestation of this.

While NONE of the other candidates address this in any form that inspires confidence, Ron Paul, with his simplistic, isolationist and rightist solutions is getting a REAL hearing.

It would be very foolish to underestimate the appeal that this guy has, or how it might impact the 2008 elections.

Dave,

As I've mentioned elsewhere a number or times, I have no dog in your little greyhound race in America, but from my perspective the candidates, all of them, are just dogs.

The particular canine Dr. Paul, seems to have an explosive following akin to the kind that "clean Gene" McCarthy had in 1968. Americans are absolutely sick and tired of being run into bankruptcy by the oil and banking establishment (presently represented by the handlers of Bush and by Nancy Pelosi), even if they do not say it in those particular terms. At least, that's how it looks to this former American from here in the mountains of Judea and Samaria.

And the GOP, like the Democrats, are controlled lock, stock and graft payments, by the oil and banking establishment.

So, if Paul wants to get the nomination, he has to play ball with the oil and banking establishment and betray his followers in the process.

If an election is held, and if Paul wins, you can all say

"Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss"

Just like with any other moron who gets "elected" in your country....

The Neoconservatives are dead. Bottom line. There is no way a neocon will win in '08. End of story.

So, this republican base you so fervently defend angainst the mad throng of Ron Paul barbarian hordes is allready moving quickly towards irrelevance.

All other arguments aside, search your heart, you know it to be true.

Ron Paul is the closest thing they have so it's either get behind a paleoconservative or get Hillary.

What we are seeing is not a reaction against Ron Paul supporters but a cancer ridden near-corpse stubbornly lashing out against anyone trying to tell them to fill out their will so at least their descendant do not decay into poverty.

This campaign is a circus. The Neocons need to get behing the Dr. or they lose on all fronts not just foriegn policy.

You're a fucking idiot. Extremists are not carrying Paul, as you fancifully imagine. You're just repeating the crap the the media machine wants you to regurgitate. The media is conspiring against Paul from the beginning. That is what's hurt him. Nothing else. Extremists also support the other candidates dumbass.

I would make argue that the Republican party is out of touch with it's base and roots. Ron Paul is actually more Republican than any of the others.

Ron Paul is about principle, integrity, and not blending in like a chameleon. This is exactly why he's had this much success. To pander as you suggest, is not Paul-ish

Well, I think it's fair to say that every candidate, not just Ron Paul, has a few of the boisterous, irritating types supporting him or her. I don't necessarily it's going to "cost him the election". I think that Dr. Paul is on course. Timing is quite good; voters have gotten very annoyed by Giuliani and Romney, and Huckabee is peaking early.. and his support will soon drop as soon as voters see that he isn't any more principled than the others. Eventually, the voters will come to appreciate the correct, constitutional governing philosophies of gentleman Ron Paul in spite of the overzealous behavior of some of his supporters.

Read BW's comment in #28. He gets it.

And if you refer to a person who has legitimate concerns about the Paul campaign as "a fucking idiot" rather than considering what he's saying, you're part of the problem and confirm exactly what I'm saying.

Dave

Dave Nalle, the only reason anyone is reading your article is b/c you're writing about RP. No RP article, no readers. Sorry bloke, it's the truth!

Voting for a candidate other than RON PAUL shows that things will continue with the status quo. All of the other candidates are NOT for change which is what we need. RP, and his supporters, say enough of the BS and lets get on with making things better.

We need to stop politicking and regain our values of honesty and integrity.

Candidate Checklist of integrity & honesty:
Romney-none
Thompson-none
Giuliani-lol not even close NONE
McCain-some
Huckabee-none
Ron Paul- TONS

The other Republicans are already shifting their stance and adopting RPs "fringe" views. As soon as they do that they lose all credibility.

"'There is a large element of self-righteous fanaticism'

This is the same reason the Gitmo dumping warmongering neocon base will lose to Hillary."

Game. Set. Match. This is absolutely dead on and this article and the neocons are the ultimate example of the pot calling the kettle black.

One over-riding element of what people love about Ron Paul is that he will NOT bend his principles to "get along".

Nor will his supporters.

The premise of this entire article is that Ron Paul should compromise with the national Republican leadership and that he will not be able to do that because Paul's supporters are incapable of compromise. Once again, this is yet another article in which the focus is being shifted from the substance of Paul's positions to the character of Paul's supporters.

Listen, I am a black American. Many members of my family have served in the military including my grandfather, father, uncle, and brother. I am not a 9/11 "truther". I am not a "radical leftist". I am not a neo-Nazi. I am not a domestic terrorist. I do not represent the "fringe" of American political beliefs.

I am not bothered in any way by the fact that one of Paul's (38,000) donors who contributed to his campaign on November 5th happened to be Don Black.

Why do writers insist on making sweeping generalizations about Paul's supporters? This sentence--"Paul's followers don't have respect for the party or its traditions, and that's going to alienate a lot of people they really need to have on their side."--is ridiculous. Is it safe to assume that all of the 38,000 individual donors have no respect for the Republican party or its traditions? No. That is a silly and intellectually dishonest generalization.

"The support which Paul is getting not just from leftists, but from racists, "truthers" and other scary extremists is unquestionably alienating the GOP base." - So because Paul has the support of individuals who are said to be racists, all Paul supporters are racist. Fortunately, I have studied logic and can recognize this as the fallacy of composition that it is.

"fallacy of composition arises when one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole"

No one is frightened by this alarmist rhetoric. A quick review of U.S. political history will show that PLENTY of GOP candidates have had the support of racists and that that support surely did not have the net effect of alienating them from the GOP base. What an absurd argument. You know the media is getting desperate to prevent a Ron Paul win when they start pandering to the anti-racist sentiment of the GOP base.

Dave fails to realize that the deck is effectively stacked against the American people in this election. I have throughly researched all of the candidates. I have closely examined the issues regarding our national sovereignty, our monetary policy, and the very-real ideological differences between sovereigntists and globalists. I have made my choice, and that choice is Ron Paul.

So Dave, if you think Ron Paul's supporters will cost him the election, then you must think he'd be alright without them. In politics you play the hand you're dealt, so Paul has to use his strength (the enthusiasm and web savvy of his supporters) to maximize his result. Sure, he needs to turn blog-watchers into precinct organizers. But saying his supporters will cost him the election misses the point. They are in fact his only hope for WINNING the election.

So you think that Ron Paul supporters have no respect for the republican party? maybe its really that the "new" republican party has no respect for its roots. This party used to be the party of personal responsibility and fiscal conservatism, now its the party of big government and even bigger spending. So who's really lost their values and roots? I think it would have to be the GOP.

Nice try, I guess, and it probably comes from a place of honest intention, BUT.....

This is NOT simply an attempt to win the nomination of the Republican party. This is a revolution by people whom, for the first time in a lot of their lives, actually have a choice of who to vote for WITHOUT compromise! The simple demographics that you suggest we tailor our personas to are the same people who F**Ked this country up so badly in the first place. It was their own constant "watering down" of principles, integrity, morality and intelligence in order to "make nice" with each other that has brought us all to the tipping point.

Win or lose, we will not be watered down. To repeat, this is NOT a sporting event where we really want the home team to win, it's about finally feeling that we too are good enough to play.

The revolution continues long after Ron Paul is gone. The "birth pains" you refer to is nothing less than the life force of the newborn.

So what you are saying is that Ron Paul should lie in order to win the election? You unlike Ron Paul and his fans have serious ethical issues and that is why Ron Paul has won 25 straw polls, nearly all the online polls, raised most money of all Reps, won the WV delegation vote, and has the most meetup groups.

I am surprised by how many of you are reacting like this is a hit piece. This article was written to help the campaign, not hurt it. Mr. Nille is not talking about pandering to the party - he's talking about how WE Ron Paul supporters sometimes look like a bunch of over-zealous, tin foil wearing morons - and how that detracts from Dr. Paul's message. We RP supporters sometimes hurt his campaign.

I am a serious Ron Paul supporter and plan to hit my $2300 donation limit this Sunday. But I am frequently embarrassed by the actions of some of our more aggressive supporters. For example, I'm sure some of you have read the article were a zealous RP supporter upset a man waiting in line with his family to meet Santa. The rest of the people in line cheered when the man turned away the RP supporter. Did we lose a few potential votes there? Possibly several, but at least one for sure.

Unfortunately, I don't like to be "known" as a RP supporter because I don't want to be grouped in with the type of supporters Mr. Nille has so accurately described - or the negative image that comes with it. I have already been called a "Ronulan" - why? Not because of my belief in Dr. Paul's message, but because that is the image that those who are closely following this election have of the majority of RP supporters. Whether or not we are all fanatical "Ronulans" is irrelevant (we are not). But unfortunately, that is the stereotypical image that we now carry as a group. And that makes it harder to draw in new supporters.

Paul
Tucson, AZ

I always think it's pretty funny whenever writers go off about RP's 'lunatic fringe' supporters. First off, they are an extreme minority of RP's supporters. Secondly, as someone said before, the young uppity types are usually the ones commenting on blogs. It's the Intranets! Civility will never occur in a completely open forum due to the anonymity. The broad generalizations of this article are the only things I find offensive.

As to that other poster, who said that if RP supporters can't take constructive criticism, they're screwed...Newsflash, buddy, again, this is the internet. Are you telling me that you can walk into a chat room full of Fred Thompsonites and speak the same disrespectful, guilt-by-association crap to them as people tend to do about RP and /not/ get ripped to shreds? I doubt it.

I'm 20, I'm an RP supporter and so's every family member I've talked to about him. We're all sick of the same old crap and politicians trying to make themselves out to be the best 'leader'. Being a good leader doesn't really matter if you're leading everybody to hell. We've gotten shit for decades for screwing around in other people's business, and absolutely no thanks for it. Why should we spend our money to fix their governments? Not when we've got the problems we have at home. Hillary's the same as most of the other candidates, and while she /appears/ anti-war, she ain't. But there's absolutely no way a pro-war Republican can win this. The idea of us keeping this going is just sinking us into irreversible debt.

As for the truthers and supremacists, they are a minority. And guilt-by-association tactics are just horsecrap, compared to all the times they supported other candidates and nobody cared. And whatever happened to freedom of speech in this country? Just because these people support RP doesn't mean he'd cater to them. Perhaps if he were a normal politician, this would be the case, but he's not, Thank God. As I see it, truthers and supremacists are supporting a man who's not at all for their conspiracy theories, but that's their decision.

RP's against collectivism, but getting the government out of people's lives is going to resound with a lot of people - even people you don't like. But whatever happened to freedom of speech? If you want to silence and possibly murder every single person you don't agree with, how are you better than the supremacists?

Although I agree that some of the more exuberant supporters likely do far more harm than good for the campaign. I think the MSMs utter refusal to cover Dr. Paul is more problematic, a frightening number of Americans only gather information from MSM approved outlets and in their little universe Ron Paul doesn't even exist. Granted most of the people in that situation aren't exactly opposed to the government deciding and doing things "for them" which along with other tendencies doesn't exactly indicate their predisposition to support Ron Paul. All said both are significant problems but the larger problem lies with those deciding what is and what isn't "news worthy".

What's obvious here is that you don't like the success of the Paul campaign and thus you're seeking desperately for something to whine about. Sorry, but every candidate draws voters from some "lunatic fringe." The fact that Paul draws voters from MANY "fringe movements" only tells us that he has a wide support base... and he does!

Your article is replete with nonsensical statements. Here's a favorite:

"Lots of mainstream Republicans have basically libertarian values and will support a libertarian-leaning candidate, but they won't support someone they perceive as hostile to the Republican party and its interests."

No, the problem is that is most mainstream Repubs today are neo-cons, and Ron Paul is not a neo-con. Using your bad definitions, then, you've defined Ron Paul as losing since he is not a neo-con. How's that for circular reasoning?

Furthermore, if Ron Paul needs the neo-con "base" (which he won't get, obviously) then how can the blame of his failure rest on his supporters shoulders? You completely contradict the thrust of your article.

Some Paul supporters are obnoxious... all enthusiastic supporters are obnoxious. You blow their influence way out of proportion, however. Most Paul supporters are just every-day folk who are sick of the neo-con's and Democrat's empty promises and bad ideology.

Dave,
There's no party base. Don't you get it? It's all over, the soul deprived shell of a party inspires nothing in the people. It's been formed though degeneration of the country and it's a product of that; and it only serves a few interests: the ultra-rich, those in office and total fools who believe they are served. So far, they've wagged the dog. Now the dog is thinking of waking from his slumber.

From the very first moments of Ron Paul's rise, he has ridiculed and lambasted by every establishment Republican who could get hisher hands on a microphone.

Respect goes two ways. Tell Mark Levin and friends to stop saying Ron Paul "hates America" (that's a direct quote) if they want Paul's supporters to respect them.

I'm another Ron Paul supporter who agrees with the author of this article. Not saying he has to compromise his values, not by a long shot, he's saying that we need the mainstream. I agree.

When I promote Ron Paul, I do so very conservatively and never get aggressive or even too excitable, as it can be mistaken for fanatacism.

I've done the research, StormFront does support RP and that alone would have turned me off to him had I not already studied RP's positions. So do 9/11 "Truthers" and I've had some run-ins with them, they are hysterical and can't listen to logic or anyone who disagrees with them.

Most average people don't want to be associated with such things and will thus not be open to Paul's message. Remember, Paul wants "radical" change in this country and that's a tough enough sell without all the loonies lurking in the corners pushing Paul down people's throats.

My girlfriend and I are both going to vote for Ron Paul in the Maryland Primary. We're both new voters (20 years old) and registered Republicans. No telephone poll has included us in their stats. We are both normal people who aren't racist/anarchist/911 truthers. I know more people my age excited about Ron Paul than any other candidate.

The only way Paul has any chance is to run as a 3rd party candidate in the general election - which I believe he will do. Not that he'll carry any states, but he can continue to get his message out.

Maybe Mike Bloomberg and Ralph Nader will run 3rd-party also, and we'll have quite a free-for-all.

We are so upset about what is going on in this country and worried for the future generations. When you realize that a privately owned "Council on Foreign relations" is making money off of the blood of our soldiers (Halliburton, Lockheed,& CACI) you get upset. We need to alert people by giving them information to read. Stay calm and fight with the truth, because that is our only weapon. Pray that God will get us out of the Godless united Nations.

It never ceases to amaze me how people think that people who strictly believe in Constitutional Rule of Law, and passionate about it, are fringe and extremism.
Hey I guess I just following in my forefathers footsteps.
Ron Paul 2008
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no Vice"

Ron Paul is a true American. I was born in communist country and the only man in the debate that speaks the true and has American people best interest is RON PAUL. The USA has so much control over their people not even a Communist country have that much control. I think Ron Paul is the HOPE for America. Viva the Constitutional. The media is control in this country by a very few rich minority and we are been manipulated in believing their propaganda. If the new was reporting the facts without opinion RON PAUL would win the people vote. True Americans are tired of Government Control. I hope we wake up from the matrix.
ARE Americans practicing Communism?
Read the 10 Planks of The Communist Manifesto to discover the truth and learn how to know your enemy...
Karl Marx describes in his communist manifesto, the ten steps necessary to destroy a free enterprise system and replace it with a system of omnipotent government power, so as to effect a communist socialist state. Those ten steps are known as the Ten Planks of The Communist Manifesto... The following brief presents the original ten planks within the Communist Manifesto written by Karl Marx in 1848, along with the American adopted counterpart for each of the planks. From comparison it's clear MOST Americans have by myths, fraud and deception under the color of law by their own politicians in both the Republican and Democratic and parties, been transformed into Communists.
Another thing to remember, Karl Marx in creating the Communist Manifesto designed these planks AS A TEST to determine whether a society has become communist or not. If they are all in effect and in force, then the people ARE practicing communists.
Communism, by any other name is still communism, and is VERY VERY destructive to the individual and to the society!!
The 10 PLANKS stated in the Communist Manifesto and some of their American counterparts are...
1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture... Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"... This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.
Do changing words, change the end result? ... By using different words, is it all of a sudden OK to ignore or violate the provisions or intent of the Constitution of the united States of America?????
The people (politicians) who believe in the SOCIALISTIC and COMMUNISTIC concepts, especially those who pass more and more laws implementing these slavery ideas, are traitors to their oath of office and to the Constitution of the united States of America... KNOW YOUR ENEMY ...Remove the enemy from within and from among us.
VOTE LIBERTARIAN, the only political party in America that still firmly supports and diligently abides by the Constitution of the united States of America.

None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free....

Just like the good doctor his supporters are not going to sell out to appeal to people. We realize that if people get a chance to hear his message, we do not have to pander. people come along willingly.

That's just one side of the coin. Here's the flip side:

Republicans need to hear the truth... and read between the lines.

Paul has been careful to say he's not "considering" and does not "plan" a third party run. That doesn't mean that, if circumstances change, he wouldn't do it. What circumstances might cause such a change? Not getting the Republican nomination.

Here's a message for all the "blue-hairs" - your choices are Clinton or Paul. The number of libertarian-leaning Republicans and Independents who would rather stay home than vote for any of the other "Republican" candidates is large enough to torpedo any hope of a Republican win. And while they're sitting home, the Demoncrats will take over in force.

I, for example, would rather see the country perish quickly than grind on slowly into a police state. Why? Because in chaos, there are opportunities, but in a police state hegemony there are none.

I wish Paul would just come out and say, "If I'm not nominated, I will run as a third-party candidate". Put the writing on the wall in large letters for the whole Republican party to see. Then let them ask themselves the question: Are we members of a SUICIDE party?

You have to wonder about the sanity of ANY voter who can't see that Paul is the best choice for preserving this NATION. He's the last, best chance to prevent the country's slide into the slag heap of fallen empires. But especially among REPUBLICANS, only by abandoning the CORE BELIEFS of the party can one even entertain the possibility of one of the other candidates winning the nomination.

I submit that many of the blue hairs have become more communist/socialist than Republican. If they lose this year, the Republicans won't just be going into exiles for a couple decades. The country will implode within six years (probably much sooner than that) and there won't be any political parties.

The great experiment in liberty that is the USA... will end.

Paul can win. Hillary can win. Those are your choices.

Now vote.

Dave and BW-

I don't find this article to be a hit piece at all. I find it views Dr. Pual favorably and his supporters... not so much.

Where I think it fails is in undertanding that the two are symbiotic, not parasitic. We (and Dr. Paul) are beyond disgusted with the very practices you're advocating in the name of "victory". Pandering to these power corrupted forces is the antithesis of this campaigne and just breeds more of the same -not the change we seek. Further - how hypocritical would it be to tout a constitutional stand and then censor the free speech of a subset of our supporters becuase they may not paint us in the best light?


By the way - Don't kid yourself. Regardless of those you would label as anchors to Dr.Pauls election chances, he would get NO love from the media, the GOP or the candidates. The only thing changing that ARE the supporters. He is where he is becuase of US and we are here because of hid principled positions in the face of the very influences you are advocating. I would argue that many fo the candidates are starting to sound more and more like Ron Paul - why do you think that is?

Perhaps you right.. perhaps our numbers are not yet enough to overcome this but they're growing despite the lunatic fringe and some are finally taking notice. I find it counterintuitive that you would seek to "blame" the linatics and not the system that has given rise to our lunacy. Don't you?

Yeah, whatever dude. RON PAUL 2008!!!

When a movement gets this big, its impossible to not have supporters from all walks, and levels of sanity (though I think99.9% are sane patriotic Americans.). I think its a compliment to the movement / campaign that it has such a broad appeal. I agree with a few points on the article, Ron Paul supporters should be stealthy and polite when going to the GOP meetings etc....and I think most probably are. Things get ugly when they start to get denied. I am only saddened by the fact that the peoples vote don't really matter, if it did Ron Paul would be a clear winner. You must become a delegate to make a true difference.

"Truthers" are more than 70% of Americans. Statistically a majority of Americans believe a in a cover up of 9-11. If only 10% are motivated to vote who would they vote for? It's interesting to me that NOBODY writes about this. It's a 900 pound Gorilla, with the Constitution.

I agree with what you are saying. Ron Paul supporters should not attack the Party. At the same time, the leadership of the Party has been hostile to Ron Paul from the beginning. The problem is not the Republican Party, it is the Party's leadership which has abandoned traditional Republican values, and has ignored and marginalized Dr. Paul. It's hard to blame some of his supporters for being hostile to people they see as betrayers.

What Ron Paul supporters need to do is to educate mainstream Republicans as to what the Republican Party is supposed to stand for. They also have to expose the current leadership. It is that leadership who are bringing the Party to defeat by selling out to the globalist, special interests. The Ron Paul people need to remind Republicans that it is not "patriotic" to support politicians and policies that are bankrupting the country, killing people, and are not in the interest of the American people.

We need to maintain the high moral ground. At the same time, we need to expose the RNC leadership as shills for the Council on Foreign Relations.

""Truthers" are more than 70% of Americans. Statistically a majority of Americans believe a in a cover up of 9-11."

Statistically true, but ignores the issue of the nature of the coverup most believe in.

It DOES NOT mean that 70% of Americans believe, as the truthers overwhelmingly do, that 9/11 was planned and executed by the Bush administration.

I have a fairly wide circle of friends and business acquaintances. NOT ONE among them believes the administration was responsible for the attack, but many DO believe the same administration IS covering up their own ineptitude and failure to see it coming, as well as other shortcomings in the handling of the situation.

THOSE are the "70%," not the truthers.

Questions:

1)
If other candidates begin to copy Paul's message, does that mean they want to attract as many 'self-righteous fanatics' ? ;-)

2)
If candidates copies Paul's message, does that mean that they also want some of those 'supporters from every quarter of the lunatic fringe' ? ;-)


Seriously;

3)
The founding fathers of your country thought that REAL LIBERTY for everyone was better than ANY OTHER system... were they wrong/crazy ?

3a)
Can your fellow citizens learn and pratice real liberty again ? Should we give them some 'space and time' to make some mistakes... or not ?

3b)
Do you think real liberty is going to bring perfection to your fellow citizens/country ? (I don't, but overall I really think it's better having a country/party/etc give real liberty to 'We The People' than any other system...)

4)
Can the history of your country (1776-1913 ?) teach you and me(and the rest of the world for that matter) anything about real liberty and how this UNIQUE experience is/was better then any other approach ?

4a)
Should Ron Paul listen to you and infringe on that concept -of real liberty- to win this ?

5)
That system of liberty implies that SOME people will exagerate some time, but overall, don't you think that's better than an 'autoritarian' regime (or political party) ?

6)
Do you have confidence that as long as citizens (or supporters of any political party) do not break the basic criminal laws, the outcome will be better than any other approach ?

7)
Even though you bring up some good points... don't you think you generalize/exagerate a bit and do not trust the outcome of real liberty ?

Maybe you think all these questions have nothing to do with your ideas/suggestions... if so, please just ignore this...

Anyway, have a nice day and thank you for reading me.

Sebastien from (french) Canada

After the carnage of Bush, the choice is Clinton or Paul. If Paul is not a choice, my vote, sadly, will go with the democratic choice. Any other Republican is going to lose.

Everyone seems to overlook the fact that Don Black rallied for Bush in Florida when the election was in question and nobody said boo.

How come when I search for

stormfront "don Black" george bush

on google I get 673 hits, and when I search for

stormfront "don Black" ron paul

I get 106,000 hits.


Besides, I'll take the crazies that support Ron Paul over the crazies praying for the "end of days" every time.

You don't have to worry about Paul when the media ignores him - most americans have no clue who the guy even is....

There is a classic case of damned if you do or damned if you don't.

If his supporters come off as luke warm (like one candidate) they are not going to get any attention from people.

If they come off as hyperactive squirrels, they may put some people off.

But I do prefer the active ones honestly. While extremely laid back myself, I can appreciate, and support, the more rabid followers.

Besides passion inspires passion and we are in the fight for our future and we need all the passion we can get to wake up America in its hour of need.

"Lots of mainstream Republicans have basically libertarian values and will support a libertarian-leaning candidate, but they won't support someone they perceive as hostile to the Republican party and its interests."

The above excerpt is the reason I disagree. Most of us RP supporters are fed up with the "game" as you put it. The Republican party and the Democratic party server their interests, not the people they supposedly represent. Hence it is good business to get in government if you want money.

You really don't grasp the feeling of the RP Grassroots campaign. We are not trying to overthrown Republicans or Democrats. We are not trying to alienate them. We are trying to let them know that the PEOPLE are the ones who make their lives privileged, the ones who GIVE them the ability to have the power they have.

What I see happening now is a move towards sending a message. A message that goes down to the roots of this country. This country is run by the PEOPLE for the PEOPLE. We are a country that was founded by those who were insightful enough to know that Big Government is too corrupt and leads to failure. Humans are prone to failure, and they knew it. The focused a government more on protecting civil liberties and the people, and put the reigns of control on the individual states the people chose to live in.

The Republican party lost track of this ideal a long time ago, and they have no intentions of turning back. The men and women in power have no intention of providing a better future for the PEOPLE, but rather they are more focused on lining their pockets and expanding their vacation homes.

The PEOPLE of this country have long lost faith in the government. We have seen corruption, misguidance, frivolous spending, and a lack of dedication towards the preservation of the liberties we once had. We live in a society that is no more controlled than ever, and the PEOPLE have all but lost hope for change. That is until a true PEOPLES candidate like RP came along.

He brings hope and gives us, the so called "lunatics" a chance at feeling like a brighter future can be had.

Although I understand your concerns, a proposal to "control" supporters is antithetical to freedoms that we're hoping for. Rather than continuing a "top down" approach, how about educating every supporter you know regarding the protocol in the GOP? If you've ever met a Ron Paul supporter, you know we'll do ANYTHING IT TAKES to get Ron Paul elected (canvass in the snow & sleet, drive or fly to other states to hit the campaign trail, spend our last dollar to make an impact, etc). We're intelligent, active and well-read. Provide factual sources of information and we'll learn very well how to "play the game".

Well... this was a thought provoking article.

I appreciate your request for tact and decorum, but in most cases, on the ground I've seen it in spades.

I'm an RP supporter. If it was not for Ron Paul I would not touch the Republican party with a ten foot pole. They are that alienating.

And it's sad because Ron gets on the stage and says what he believes in and that it qualifies him to be a Republican and it all sounds good. But then you look over on the stage at those other yahoos and think if that's a Republican I'd rather be an Independant... or on another planet.

What you are asking is for us to hold hands with the people who see no problem with Huckabee and Guiliani and company. While I appreciate your ability for outreach... I just don't know if I can hold my cookies.

I support Ron Paul, because he's a decent guy. The other Republicans are going to have to earn that respect, not just demand it like dues for the club.

One more thing: We've been told for years that we don't even exist so our opinion doesn't count. I think there is some kind of question in the pit of our belly about how many of us there really are. The question is do we want to know the exact number of people who share our views, or do we just want to turn our views into plain vanilla for everyone to swallow?

Great article and I partially agree. The one thing you're not addressing here is that it is really hard to not alienate a group of people who disagree with you completely even though you're the one who is most representing the group's values. Non-interventionism, decreased spending, and less government control is not a core value of the GOP. "Lots of mainstream Republicans have basically libertarian values and will support a libertarian-leaning candidate" is absolutely FALSE.

So, RP supporters are doing what we can. We aren't all truthers and conspiracy theorists, but we do hold a strong anti-Government view spawned largely by the work of the current administration, which represents the GOP.

Shove it Dave. If the media reported truth you wouldn't have so many pissed off people. Take your propaganda and stick it where the sun don't shine.
Labeling people crazy for wanting truth is ridiculas. If the facts were open people wouldn't be so angry.
Wake up. Ron Paul has a landslide of support. He already won the national causus, which NO media outlet reported...hmm supprised?
Goto nationalcaucus.com and look at their results. Ron Paul won even vs democrats in a total landslide victory.

Peopkle like you are what is wrong with this nation- People like you say why throw your vote away....
It's more important now more than ever to stand up and flip the game..
Most people hate politics because so much makes no sense and you prove it.

RON PAUL 2008!

Bravo- excellent post! I hope this is part of a turning point for the Paul grassroots movement. My full comments on this column are here (stupid trackback wasn't working).

I must admit that reading some of the statments presented at BC by RP supporters has given me incentive to relook at RP. I'm now trying to figure out what it is about this man that causes him to draw in so many kooks.

It is what it is, both a blessing and a curse. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't think RP would stand a chance if he depended on the Republican base to support him. His appeal to the true conservative core of the party, independents, disenchanted Democrats and a few free radicals has coalesced into a viable political force. Now, he has the others looking over their shoulders. As evidence, notice the sudden and patronizing resurgence of the word "constitution" in ther rhetoric. The RP phenomenon is something too special to diminish or attempt to sanitize for the sake of the political establishment. And why on Gods green earth would you want to? They are the very thing we are defying. If we wanted the SOS we wouldn't need RP. Theres plenty of it to choose from among the other candidates. In the annals of lost causes there was another rag tag army that defied the odds to beat another tyrant named George. The spirit of "76" is alive again!

We oughtta take this advice to some extent. Sure we had to shove our way in (see Saul Anunzis, Ed Failor, etc), and frankly, the result of that is that we don't trust the GOP to hold fair & unbiased elections - straw pools, caucuses, or primaries.

But you're probably correct in that it is now time to try a little more honey and a little less vinegar. However, we should also show up & vote in the primaries. Without that, we can't win. If we win that way & they still deny us the nomination, then it makes sense to swell the ranks of the Libertarian party, and turn the GOP into a permanent minority. They should see this as an opportunity: when we go to a GOP gathering, we lower the average age by decades, and we fill rooms that were awfully quiet just last year.

The other thing is that we are, in fact, staging a coup. We are here to take over the GOP. Others have done it, and they've ignored our concerns, treating small-l libertarians as a given. Well, we're not, and now we have a candidate who has brought us all together. The Hawks won't like him, but he should be acceptable to everyone else. If they pull shenanigans to keep him from getting the nomination, then it _should_ become our purpose to either take over the party or destroy it from a 3rd party platform (see Kevin Mannix, Slade Gorton, and John Ensign).

This article is just another example of how Mainstream Media is marginalizing Paul and his supporters effort. Ron Paul wins over 50 percent of the straw polls. Ron Paul has dedicated supporters who will all vote, as opposed to the mere 25% of all other registered voters that actually vote.
I tell everyone who say's "Ron Paul doesn't stand a chance," that if everyone who said that actually voted for Ron Paul he would win in a landslide. Everyone who wants to vote for Romney or Guiliani becuase, "We just don't want Hillary," fails to realize that ONLY Ron Paul can beat Hillary in a General Election. His "troops home now" stance will resonate with Democrats and would be the death knell for Hillary considering she wants to keep troops there until 2013 and even strike up a face-off with Iran.
So if you're voting for electability, Ron Paul is your only hope.
Dont be afraid of the Constitution.
Vote Ron Paul 2008

Whether you agree with the author of this article or not, those of us who support Ron Paul not only have to vote in the primaries, but we must become delegates.

I know that Ron Paul supporters will do "whatever it takes" to get him elected. Part of what it takes may be a realistic view of where we are and where most of the mainstream public is, step back and learn how to pitch RP in an appealing way to them. This doesn't dilute or change the message-we all know that RP won't pander, and neither should we. BUT, we do need to know the system and how to best work it, just like any great artist needs to know the basic rules of art before he can go on to break them and change the face of things.

Best of luck to all, be thoughtful and take action, which is far different than being reactionary.

Everytime I see an article like the one here by Mr Nalle, all I hear in my mind when I read it is another reporter crying "I cannot properly tell my lies against Ron Paul when all these supporters show up to set the record straight".

Really, isnt that exactly what this is all about?

You cannot attack the politician effectively or ligitimately so you turn to lies and propaganda against both the politican and the supporters. I would say most Americans can see right through this type behavior by the media and believe me, its way worse than any Ron Paul supporter ever has been or ever will be.

I agree with this article:

WE HAVE TO BE SEEN AS ALIENATED REPUBLICANS THAT ARE SUPPORTING PAUL, NOT FRINGE SUPPORTERS TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE PARTY!!!!

Pon Paul is now officially in 1st place for all 50 straw polls according to USAStrawPolls.com See for yourself.

Ron Paul would have no chance to win if he ran as a Libertarian because of our two-party system. I am not insulted in the least that he is running on the Republican ticket. That's smart. Besides he is in Congress in Texas as a Republican. A lot of Libertarian views (Liberty, Freedom, Limited Government)are American regardless of what party you belong to. Go Ron Paul. You are the one.

" I agree with this article:

WE HAVE TO BE SEEN AS ALIENATED REPUBLICANS THAT ARE SUPPORTING PAUL, NOT FRINGE SUPPORTERS TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE PARTY!!!!"


Vincent, with all due respect - "Seen" by whom? Ron Paul and a great many of his supports are lucid intelligent folks that can articulate valid points with more credability than many of his adversaries. Some are colorful, but MOST are NOT. Yet, we're all painted with the same slanted brush and get very little respect from those will NOT see!

It's like the administration saying we can't leave Iraq becuase leaving now would be seen as a defeat just when we're starting to win. The question again becomes "Seen by whom ?". To those that disagree with us in Irag OR the GOP, we will ALWAYS be seen through "their eyes" as "losers" even if we could acheive the unrealistic and bring our entire group to the utmost standrds of conduct.

Some are still holding on the delusion that our conduct has been the problem when the facts suggest quite the opposite is true.

LOL. I love your description of that video from SF. It's dead on. Based on their ages I bet most Paul supporters really are rebelling against hippy parents. The video also illustrates that the GOP is in serious need of new blood. I hope that when Paul loses some of his supporters stick around and keep trying to reform tje party.

Granted I have seen my share of those that go out of their way to alienate supporters of other candidates with theories and accusations, but these "kooks" are almost always more intelligent and well read.

For all these few "kooks" on our side, I have seen 10 times that amount of ignorant voters on the opposite lines. Some of them can't even defend their candidate and need a harsh awakening.

I'll take the educated over the ignorant any day.

I'm a longtime GOP voter but am quite disgruntled at the GOP over the past number of years. When I found out Ron Paul was running I became very excited because I lean very much libertarian. I do have a very hard time giving respect to the GOP when they support candidates running against Ron Paul. The GOP is part of the problem because they have forgotten the principles they used to stand on.

btw. The worst campaign behavior I have seen was Romney supporters voting many times each in a straw poll.

Dave, I'm only about half way through the comments, but I've got to add a comment of my own. The idea of you as a member of the mainstream media conspiracy is hilarious. Apparently, if you don't praise every aspect of Paul's campaign, you're working for the devil. I do wish you'd given more specifics in your article, though.

Reagan wasn't warmly accepted by the mainstream of the GOP either. It took years of effort, a national organization, a proven track record in major office, and two failed runs at the nomination. And he had Golden Era Hollywood name recognition.

A note to Ruvy, STM, and our other foreign readers: objects may appear larger on the internet. I guess that's a warning to the Paul fans too.

Since when is showing up and voting considered a "disruption"? The rules for the San Francisco straw poll were clear, and Paul's supporters abided by those rules. There was absolutely no problem until the rules were suddenly changed... apparently because Fred Thompson might not win. It is sad that this occured, and sad that a few people somehow think it is the fault of the Paul supporters who showed up to do nothing more than cast their votes.

I totally agree with your article, I know the crazy, wild, enthusiastic, extremely informed supporter's of Paul will cost him the election. Even though you, "the media" is so supportive and make sure in every article to remind us what the odds are. Leaving out thing like he has more money than any other republican candidate. Wouldn't want any potential voters to just jump on the band wagon because HE'S WINNING. In all seriousness we can and will give the finger to the traditional neocons. Kind of an oxymoron I know Paulites. If new republicans out number the loyalist the revolution wins peace out kids from Beeradgeeze.

Why on earth would anyone vote for Romney even once?

One more thing. Campaigns have to respond to their surroundings. If the mainstream press represents you as a kook, you've got to prove them wrong. Remember Bill Clinton's staged brawl with Sister Souljah. Challenging a radical makes you appear mainstream. "Paul Denounces Racist" is a headline, and Paul needs headlines.

I guess there are always more than one way to look at something.

Ron Paul supporters see, way to often, the good doctor ignored by the MSM. If he's not being ignored they are putting some negative spin on the story. Like the day they raised 500K on a whim with about a weaks notice. What was the headline "Money Dud" because we didn't top the 4.3 Million of a few weaks earlier.

Or how about the YouTube debate where CNN gave him the less time than the corporate candidates and gave him ridiculous questions about conspiracy theories and a potential 3rd party run for president. A third of the 5000 questions were submitted by Paul supporters and that's the best they could do?

Sometimes supporters feel that the only way they are going to get equal coverage and fair coverage is to scream it from the rooftops. And why is that, because sitting on your hands and waiting is not going to work.

And then there are people like you Dave that focus on how his supporters are going to bring him down and practically ignore the fact that they are the ones that got him here. The grassroots movement is strong, alive and kicking. They've raised millions of dollars, paid for multiple ads and even launched a Blimp with his name on it. I will remind you, the campaign had nothing to do with these events.

Like the good doctor says, the message is bigger than the man. As a supporter, I just want to make sure everyone hears it before they make their decision.

Nothing like reeling in the hits to your blog by posting a negative Ron Paul article.

Way to go Dave, your a genius!!

Oh yeah and for all the fellow Paulites, who are ashamed of our enthusiasm, no matter what we say or how we act, we will always be crazy according to the media. We have a freakin blimp that's going to be flying on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. That unorthodox to say the least. I am proud to be against the status quo because the status quo is corrupt and wrong and if being enthusiastically against whats corrupt and wrong makes me crazy call me crazy.

Mayday did u read this article? And if so point out for me the negative part about Paul because I missed it.

Joel, what is a 'corporate candidate'? Do they wear sponsor logos on their suits? And why is having corporate support a bad thing? Ron Paul is certainly pro business.

Ron Paul supporters need to make every effort possible to be nice, friendly, and not give the MSM any more material to marginalize Ron Paul. All exposure is not good exposure. First impressions are extremely important.

When the average American (who may not yet know about RP) sees on the news that Paul supporters were stalking Rudy everywhere he went, that average American automatically forms an impression of Ron Paul in his mind. We NEED those people to have an open mind when the media has to cover RP on Dec. 16 and up to the primaries.

Not to mention the behavior of many (certainly not all) RP supporters on youtube and even on articles like this one. Can we please not call people who don't support RP ignorant or insane. Can we please stop cussing in comments about the other candidates. I realize there will always be those who don't realize they are doing more harm than good, but let's try to be the best that we can be for Ron Paul. He needs us just as much as we need him.

this guy claims to be a writer? his narrow minded, blind support for "the game" belie his laziness as a researcher. had he investigated anything about ron pauls supporters he would have learned that they are legion! from every stripe of american disillusioned with the "game" that is our current political process. the awakened masses will probably not get ron paul elected but not for the reasons cited. my biggest fear is the "powers that be" taking him out.
don't think that can't happen in this day and age?
a slew of gravy slurping corporate types control this government now and i know they had jfk, rfk, lincoln and god knows who else removed from being a threat to their pork pie. ron paul is just a man, i only hope he infects enough "rabid" supporters to carry on the message that it is our country, the people, and we wield the power that they usurp for profits. we need to take back our country and reestablish the constitutional principles that allowed it to flourish it's first 100+ years.

I just don't agree. Sure, a lot of people are loony-- every candidate has loony supporters. Many of us are ALREADY in the GOP-- I myself am on my county's executive committee. The GOP may not know it yet, but it's already filled with "Ron Paul Republicans," and he's the only thing bringing new bodies and voters to the party, because their current policies certainly aren't.

"You can't show up in a hotel ballroom full of people who look like they graduated high school with Ronald Reagan carrying signs and shouting slogans and not expect them to go all Berkeley-in-69 on your ass and shut you down."

Yes, you can. I went to the Defending the Dream Summit-- held in a hotel ballroom-- and every single young person there was a Ron Paul supporter, with the exception of one young man who liked Romney. I talked to an older man (not yet a Ron Paul supporter) who said he thought Ron Paul gave the best speech and he was glad that so many young people are becoming Republicans because of him. He said, "I know you guys are having fun with this, I hope it works out."

I've often thought about that great older man and the wisdom of his words. Any old-time GOPer who would act differently-- to put it simply-- has something wrong with them. Who wouldn't appreciate a member of the party who can get young people interested in droves, having fun and enjoying politics at the same time?

I've worked in the Intelligence/Operations support of government agencies, all the up to the State Dept.

If only the IGNORANT, UNEDUCATED, & LAND of SHEEP of this country(American Voters) knew of the corruption, collusion, conspiring actions of the State Dept., Congress, Corporations, Lobbyist, PACs, and so on. If you could see the governments operations running interference in governments and the people throughout the world, it would shock you. TRILLIONS of DOLLARS, 100's of thousands of lives, GREED, IMPERIALISM, GLOBAL EMPIRES, it goes on & on... Then there's the Internal CORPORATE CORRUPTION in this country, supporting, what I think is down right treason to the American people. Watch how government will give amnesty towards corporations.


Educate the Masses! Americans need a severe wakeup call!

Have you notice that all the GOP Pandering HACKS, have moved their original campaign stances now towards Dr. Ron Paul's policies and views? HuckleBee should be sued for Plagiarism of RON PAUL.

Dave Nalle... I think you're just a FOOL that types faster than you think!

RON PAUL is a politician that has the balls to stand up to mutated government entity that has destroyed and polarized the rights of individuals.


Go! RON PAUL... NEVER BACK DOWN or QUIT!

Maybe the GOP should worry more about offending Ron Paul supporters with their total direguard of the Constitution!

You are forgetting one thing:

We are joining the Republican party.

We are the new mainstream. From now on, the statists are going to be the ones muscled out of the political process. If the freedom movement can't win now, statists of one side or the other will win. What difference does it make whether it's a socialist or a fascist? None.

The new republican party with its network of freedom supporters will not go away after this election. We have a lot of work to do at the local and state level, and we will keep at it until our republic is restored.

No more of a coup that neocons taking over the party in 1994 a la Newt Gingrich. Ron Paul wants to restore the Republican Party to the basic tenants found in it's charter.

Ron Paul will win the primary in any state that lets you chose your party at the door of the polling place. Only in states like Florida that people have to change there party will Dr Paul not have the Dems and Independants that forget to change parties before the votes are cast. The polls only reflect "likely republican voters" add all others and we have a land slide.

In re: "Some facts to consider: {My COMMENTS}
• Paul has stated clearly that he will not run in another party or as an independent even if he loses the nomination.
{Lest We forget the First Order of Principle: DON'T SNATCH DEFEAT from the Jaws of Victory!!!}

• That being the case, to make it to the final election he has to win the Republican party nomination.
{Novel!!! ... Your "Logic" is PROFOUND!!!}

• Crossover votes are not enough to win the nomination. He needs support from mainstream Republicans, not just their votes but also their help in getting fairly represented in caucuses and straw polls down to the precinct level, an area where no amount of outside support will help him.
{THREE, well-taken POIINTS! Albeit; PERHAPS herein lies the "turn-of-the-worm": "Mainstream" connotes ABSENCE of "estuary and embankment-bound eddies", e.g. that portion of 50% of elligable but "Conscience Quality" discriminatory American "Voters" whose Predisential criteria have NOT been met since Ronald Reagan and who ARE AGAIN BEING QUICKENED, such that "Mainstream" may soon be defined as "FLOW of the ENTIRE channel-body"!!! ... a collection of $18,000,000 - $20,000,000 OVER LESS THAN 90-DAYS is a WHOLE-LOT-OF "NICKEL & DIME" FRUITS - the MAIN DENOMINATION of "produce" from Dr. Paul's KEY $$$-Tree!}

• Lots of mainstream Republicans have basically libertarian values and will support a libertarian-leaning candidate, but they won't support someone they perceive as hostile to the Republican party and its interests.
{AGREED, supra.}

• The support which Paul is getting not just from leftists, but from racists, "truthers" and other scary extremists is unquestionably alienating the GOP base.
{AS WELL IT SHOULD - PARTICULARLY ANY "truthers", presently ANATHEMA TO "the GOP base"!!!} These fringe supporters would be a great asset in a general election, but they are a deadly liability in a primary run by conservative political hacks, where candidates are expected to play ball to a certain extent, and where supporters are expected to follow certain rules and protocols. Paul's followers don't have respect for the party or its traditions, and that's going to alienate a lot of people they really need to have on their side.
{AIN'T IT GREAT!!! Here's THAT WONDERFUL 1979-80 "De-ja-vu, ALL OVER AGAIN"!!!}

• Without winning over the party base Paul will not win the nomination. Without the nomination he wil