Blogcritics Comments on Time to Boycott Voting

Comment by Doug Hunter on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:10:14 EDT

I quit this game, it's no fun, nobody listens to what I say. Let's start over with me as the leader! Childish.

Comment by troll on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:45:05 EDT

...Doug consider the possibilities - if a high profile voter boycott is organized then will a tax boycott be far behind - ? 'no federal taxation without representation' has a nice ring to it...although there is where any reform movement will run into the Law and things will get dicey ...in the meantime enjoy being part of the problem

Comment by Doug Hunter on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:24:29 EDT

"is to NOT VOTE and play their corrupt game." Good on you. The less of you morons voting, the more important my vote becomes. I wish everyone else would decide not to vote and I could just pick our politicians. Same goes for the primaries. It'd be fun to pick the candidates and then pick the winner. I think you guys are really on to something.

Comment by Joel S. Hirschhorn on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:12:16 EDT

SonnyD: It does not matter whether I or anyone else impacts your vote; because your vote is a joke played by you on yourself. As to the None of the Above option on ballots, which I have strongly supported for a long time. The two major parties refuse to give us that option because they fear the results, even if NOTA received more votes than the "winner" and had no impact on the election result. They fear the embarrassment!! So now the only logical option for those finally recognizing that both major parties and their candidates are not worth voting for is to NOT VOTE and play their corrupt game.

Comment by troll on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:06:34 EDT

...oh - you refer to those 'aristocrats' behind and above the ol' skull and bones et al ..the Russian Landowner Syndrome sounds like a conspiracy theory based on an objectively real conspiracy...but what do you call constantly justified paranoia - ? (with respects to Pynchon)

Comment by Clavos on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:42:12 EDT

By social class I mean the area in society occupied by people such as the Cabots and Lodges in New England, for example. This group also includes many of the oldest family names in the country. They are the people listed in the social registers of each city, and money can't buy you into their circles, though lack of money can keep you out if you're not already in. All are in that class, but not all are wealthy any longer. Donald Trump, for example, is not one of them. Neither is Bill Gates or George Soros, though Warren Buffett may well be. They are the people who have been to prep school and the Ivy League for generations, and they guard the gates well.

Comment by troll on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:12:28 EDT

...aren't you referring to basic 'classiness' rather than 'social class' which indeed is an economic matter - ? or: what do you mean by 'social class' - ?

Comment by Clavos on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 08:49:09 EDT

your economic class, that is. Your social class is determined by an entirely different set of criteria; none of which are purchasable.

Comment by troll on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 07:40:56 EDT

...your class is determined not by how much money you have but rather by how you make it

Comment by SonnyD on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 02:50:22 EDT

Joel: Promise that you are going to boycott the election. Please! Then I will know for sure that you will not cancel out my vote. If you really want to see the politicians get scared, get "None of the Above" put on the ballot. I would really like to see an election held over and over until the parties finally ran a candidate the voters could elect without feeling sick.

Comment by Clavos on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 01:52:15 EDT

gonzo, Even total assets doesn't work: Bill Gates alone has more money than all the heirs on the list. Throw in Carlos Slim Helu, (another self-made man), and you've got a major country's worth of new money. My point is, many (if not most) of today's biggest fortunes were made, not inherited. There's an old saying my father taught me about family fortunes: "Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations." It happens more often than most folks realize. Paris and her daddy, granddaddy and great granddaddy are the exception, although after her dad dies off, she just might make it come true for the hilton clan all by herself.

Comment by gonzo marx on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:13:24 EDT

if i thought the Forbes list was important, that would matter... look at total assets by the same categories, imo Excelsior?

Comment by Lumpy on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:12:11 EDT

Old money fortunes get broken up and diluted and divided until they are hardly meaningful. Then there were the insane income and inheritance tax rates of the 40s, 50s and 60s. Downward mobility for old money is very real. It's like France in the late 19th cemtury.

Comment by Clavos on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:02:28 EDT

Doug's right about the connections. They are first forged at prep school (often before then, even), and solidified in college and during the early stages of careers. For those who attend, far more benefit is gained at prep school from the connections made than the education itself. Just asking: Anybody know what the ratio of old money to new is in this year's Forbes 400? If memory serves, the proportion of heirs on the list has been steadily declining for several years now.

Comment by gonzo marx on Time to Boycott Voting

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:01:39 EDT

it's not about the trades you learn it's about acquiring and sharpening critical thinking, honing the ability to think clearly, and to adapt to new data and apply it effectively if one makes it through their educational process and has not put those *tools* into their belt, then they have missed the true Purpose of education, imo Excelsior?

Comment by Doug Hunter on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 23:47:24 EDT

I don't think there is any level where the college experience is not helpful towards upward mobility, I do think the actual trades you learn become less valuable and the social connections more important at the higher levels. I'm not a part of that group so I'm not qualified to offer a definitive answer though.

Comment by gonzo marx on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 23:08:49 EDT

well Doug..you raise some fine points...but one would think it apparent that education IS an important tool in the gathering of Wealth that all can work towards depending on their ability alone and you reinforce my point about inherited wealth being a greater factor than just about anything else Excelsior?

Comment by Doug Hunter on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:53:38 EDT

"if you don't think folks whose parents and grandparents went to and can send the kid to Exeter and then Yale have a distinct advantage over those who worked hard to get themselves through a state college" Education doesn't make you wealthy, it shapes you into a tool for the wealthy. Get a doctorate and maybe you can work at their hospitals. Everyone has their own idea of what an elite is, but from my experience $25 mil net worth seems to be a low end cutoff just dredging the bottom. At that level no amount of education will lead you to a logical way to approach they're position. At $25 mil even an idiot could hire an embezzling douchebag to manage their money and return 5% or about $1.25 million a year. A great job or small business derived from a degree plan will only net you low six figure income. (plus it takes the first 25 years of your life to obtain while the wealthy start the compounding clock the day they're born) It doesn't take much education to understand that if they start way ahead, make more money every year, and have their investment income taxed at 1/3 the rate your working income you'll never catch them or even get close. Being an entrepeneur, inventor, or business owner is the only outside shot you have and none of those are taught well in a structured environment. Education is a ticket to the middle class not out of it. If the wealthy choose to send their kids to college it's not about the boring details inside the textbooks.

Comment by gonzo marx on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:16:19 EDT

well Baronius...not quite i know quite a few successful folks...some are even good folks...it's just when i look at how many are good folks in comparison to the unscrupulous types...and add it to the day to day empirical data of how many bright and virtuous folks get trod on (that person in the office who's boss stole their idea and got a promotion..etc), i find my thesis supported by the data at hand can't say if it's "sad" or not...i don't anthropomorphize statistical observations as for myself..define "successful"? as for creepy...no offense intended, but you have no fucking clue, eh? i might like creepy... Excelsior?

Comment by Baronius on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:41:50 EDT

Gonzo, now that I think about it, what you're saying is literally sad. You either believe that you and the people around you are unsuccessful, or that they're dumb or immoral. That's a creepy view of yourself.

Comment by Clavos on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:37:30 EDT

So, the lesson I take from this is: "One is more likely to succeed by being connected and unscrupulous than bright and virtuous." OK, the unscrupulous I can achieve, but how can I get connected?

Comment by gonzo marx on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 19:34:18 EDT

i don't "believe" in any such thing but there ARE definitive strata that can be objectively observed as for "brains and virtue" winning out...the sheer numbers say otherwise...and to "believe" differently than those facts indicate might also be considered....sad the bright and virtuous get stepped on every day by the connected and unscrupulous Excelsior?

Comment by Baronius on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:41:57 EDT

I spent my life figuring that one out, and I came to the opposite conclusion. Brains and virtue will always win. Whatever your point of view, you can't believe that the rich are a separate social class with different goals. Or if you do believe it, that's just sad.

Comment by gonzo marx on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:09:58 EDT

well Baronius..you hit something there with Hilton...as in Paris how far would she get, do you think, if she had not been born to $$? one could ask the same about W it's not ONLY about education, some are born to wealth...for every Oprah, there's a shitload of folks like Paris and W if you don't think folks whose parents and grandparents went to and can send the kid to Exeter and then Yale have a distinct advantage over those who worked hard to get themselves through a state college...then i have a wonderful bridge for sale... is it possible to "bootstrap" oneself into success? yep, of course are such people at a decided disadvantage versus those born to wealth? you figure it out Excelsior? Excelsior?

Comment by Baronius on Time to Boycott Voting

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:59:53 EDT

Years ago in sociology class, I remember learning one of the few things in there that seemed to make any sense. Before 1850 or so, a person's class was dictated by his birth. During the following hundred years, a person's class was measured by his wealth. Since the 1950's a person's class has been a function of his education. All this talk about a ruling moneyed class is so dated. Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and Clarence Thomas came from about $8 accumulated wealth between them. Poor Oprah will never amount to anything. I mean, Oprah is so rich that the average TV watcher will never be able to relate to her. No, I mean that when people think of class, they think of Trump and Hilton. Huh?