damn. Your article was published before mine and I spent so much effort making sure I'd have the first article published on this topic. An editor wanted me to make a couple changes (which he was right about) but it should be up soon.

And a few of my own thoughts, on your "thoughts" Brad:

Lets start with the Ventures. An absolutely innovative instrumental band who combined elements of garage, surf, and Dick Dale twang to more or less create the blueprint for early sixties instrumental rock on songs like "Walk Don't Run." Hell, they should be in for the drum solo on "Wipeout!" alone.

The Beastie Boys -- That social conscience they developed is probably the one thing that ended up ruining them.

The Ronettes -- absolutely deserve their status. Phil Spector may have been responsible for the sound, but Ronnie's voice was essential to it. "Baby I Love You," "Walking In The Run" -- holy crap Brad! If those records were not pivotal, then what is?

Afrika Bambaataa -- if all you've ever heard is "World Destruction" I sort of understand your ignorance here, so let me educate you. With the Soul Sonic Force, Bambaataa was an early pioneer of the electro funk sub-genre of hip hop with "Planet Rock."

Chic -- Absolutely pivotal disco group. Nile Rodgers notwithstanding, and love or hate disco, records like "Good Times" (which has been sampled by every freaking rapper on earth), and "Le Freak" helped to define the genre.

I got a kick out of your article though.

-Glen

Ventures - if Dick Dale isn't in they shouldn't be in. If the meters aren't in - ditto.

Beasties - I didn't say I was happy about their social conscience :)

Ronettes - 90% Phil 5% Hal Blaine 5% Ronnie - but still how do you make it on two or so songs?

Chic - I put the Sex Pistols in on only one album, but other than them you should have some longevity, shouldn't you?

Afrika - I know about his cred - I just wonder who besides critics really listened to him. He's an innovator so I don't really mind if he makes it.

This isn't Mellencamp's first shot. DC5? Chic? Oh please.

Once again, those braniacs snubbed KISS. For effect on rock and roll, they HAVE to be in there. KISS is (was) rock and roll. (Even if rock or metal would be better off without them, they changed the game. Generations were influenced by the bombs and the makeup and the crazy stunts)
It's time to stop punishing them for their disco and film making missteps, and the crass commercialism that just won't die. Give them this and maybe they will finally go away with a shred of remaining dignity.

My guess is that Gene putting their name on everything he can think of doesn't help their cred.

Brad....You know absolutly nothing about what you are commenting on. I can NOT believe what you wrote. But this IS America.....

Robert,

It's hard to refute that since you didn't list anything specific. Are you an incensed Dave Clark 5 fan? Do you consider Bits and Pieces the equivalent of A Day in the Life?

Let me address two of Glen's comments

The Ventures didn't record Surfari and if neither Dick Dale or the Meters are in they don't belong.

The Ronettes were 90% Phil Spector and 5% Hal Blaine - Darlene Love would have been an infinitely better choice.

Heh, I meant the Surfaris recorded Wipe Out

Touche on "Wipe Out" Mr. Laidman. Although I still think the Ventures may have recorded their own version -- just not THE VERSION. I agree that Dick Dale also belongs (is he already in? if not, he will be). I completely fail however to make any connection whatsoever between the Ventures and the Meters though.

As far as Ronnie Spector goes, she was the voice behind "Baby I Love You," "Walking In The Rain," and "Be My Baby," all of which are quintessential rock and roll records. Why do you think Brian Wilson so often plays "Be My Baby" in concert, calling it "just about the greatest song I ever heard -- and one which I wish I'd written."

The Ronnettes absolutely belong in the R&RHOF, because without Ronnie's voice, those songs might have been --- well, just another Darlene Love record.

-Glen

Heh, you mean like He's a Rebel and Christmas, Baby Please Come Home. Darlene was on tons of stuff that wasn't credited to her.

I dig Ronnie, but check those Brian Wilson quotes, he might mention her occasionally, but 99% of the time he's talking about Phil Spector. Spector may have turned into a madman, but other than wanting to get into Ronnie's pants he considered the Ronettes just another one of his interchangeable girl groups.

I don't want to drag down Ronnie Spector, and Be My Baby is one of the most amazing tracks ever, but if you're group can't credibly fill out a single greatest hits album (and the Ronettes can't) then you're one or two hits had better be the equivalent of a nuclear bomb on the music scene like the Sex Pistols' were.

A lot of baseball players had a killer year or two, but that doesn't put you in the hall of fame.

"Blaming Britney Spears et al on her would be akin to blaming Eddie Van Halen for Yngwie Malmsteen."

Except, the difference is, is that Yngwie smokes the shit out of EVH and still does.*Check out "Hot on your Heels" by Steeler Vs. "Erruption"*While, Britney is an overrated back-up singer who got popular because all the dudes wanna bang the shite outta her. So, in reality, your comparison makes Madonna look way too f*cking guilty.

Yngwie should get in because he wrote the absolute worst song about vikings ever. and we all know that rock and roll is about bad viking songs.

Touche, Mr. Saleski...

Though one bad song about vikings in comparison to the 20+ years of pretentiously horrible love songs from Madonna...Hmm,I think I'll play "Now Your Ships Are Burned" over & over until my f*cking ears bleed.

Hey, Mark, I hear she may do another remix of "Holiday" to coincide with the release of that shitty movie on DVD. Ya know, the one with that sellout..umm, yea, Jack Black.

just tweakin' ya dude.

personally, i'd rather hear Madonna sing "Crazy For You" than Yngwie play too many notes per bar.

and yes, i know that he has talent, he's just never resonated with me. we've had this conversation before.

Thus the "Touche" remark...Mark. Yes, we have had that discussion, so, I won't reminisce. Plus, I don't Yngwie would be up till next year.

Madonna may have progressed into a better entertainer w/ time but so didn't The Monkees. I just don't believe,imo,that she's worthy of any praise.

praise is almost a side issue, because i really don't know what she has to do with rock & roll.

i've got no real problem with Madonna and the Beasties making it in...

but for KISS and Rush not to be in already...much less ahead of the rest of the acts nominated this year is a pure fucking crime, imo

i'm not a KISS fan, but there's NO denial of their impact in Rock

and over 30 years of selling out EVERY venue they have ever played as well as their incredible body of Work and HUGE influence on so many Musicians, there's just NO excuse of keeping these Canadians out of the Hall

and in the name of all that is Rock, why the fuck aren't Motorhead inducted yet?

the small souled pinheads and pissants who decide upon inductees need some serious schooling, imo

Excelsior?

Rush hasn't been inducted?? That's f*cked...

How about Iron F*cking Maiden?!?! They only single handedly changed the world of Heavy Metal. They are only the bench mark for all things Metal!!

AND DIO needs to be inducted next year along with Yngwie J. Malmsteen...

Who REALLY takes the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame, The Grammys, etc., seriously?

obviously not the Judges, Triniman.

but i digress...

Excelsior?

If you think nobody listens to Leonard Cohen except critics, you don't know anything about music. That said, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a completely weird place for him.

Richard I will take that obvservation as a fact as long as you prove that you've never written an ounce of rock criticism :)

David Lee Roth: All critics like Elvis Costello because all critics look like Elvis Costello!

All critics like Elvis Costello because all critics look like Elvis Costello!

...and now that Costello is married to Diana Krall, Roths statement vanishes into a puff of smoke. poof!

Did Dick Dale sell 100 million records? The Meters? The Surfaris? (Yes, the Ventures also recorded "Wipe Out.") You can hardly find a rock guitarist who doesn't credit The Ventures as a major influence. About bloody time, says I.

ya. no Monkees, even with this petition on-line over the summer that a radio station in CA started up.....supposedly several thousand signatures are on it...

The Dave Clark 5 were already voted in last year -but due to political correctness they were replaced by another act- This was not reported much-but check it out. In the meantime, one of the bandmembers of the DC5 dies- thus being ripped off from one of the great moments in his life! PUT THEM IN!

Interesting picks. I correctly predicted all five last year, so I'll try again.

1. Madonna--I hate her, but this woman is unstoppable. She'll make it for two reasons: one, she's had more commercial success AND impact and influence than the other eight nominees COMBINED; two, she was first on Sire Records, founded by Seymour Stein. There's some notoriety in the higher realms of the Hall Of Fame hierarchy. Most known is Jann S. Wenner's nickname of "Jann The Dictator." Slightly less known is that "what Seymour wants, Seymour gets." And Seymour wants his artists in. So far, the Ramones, the Talking Heads, and the Pretenders are in. It'd take an act of God to keep her out, though if she didn't get in, I'd consider it irrefutable evidence that God exists. Odds of induction: 99.99%

2. Beastie Boys--When Grandmaster Flash And The Furious Five got inducted last year, there was bellyaching from commonfolk music lovers that hip-hop had no place alongside rock's revered royalty. Well, the Beastie Boys have been the textbook example of hip-hop and rock 'n' roll amalgamation. And they're still a huge draw on the concert tour. Only possible hinderance is the presence of Afrika Bambaataa on the ballot. Voters may go for pioneer of hip-hop instead of epitome of rock meeting rap. But, I don't think it'll slow them down. Odds of induction: 85%

3. Leonard Cohen--He's a depressing and artistic poet (and writer), and Hall of Fame voters tend to eat up bohemian and poetic singer/songwriters as if they were Hot Wings on "All You Can Eat Night" at the Santa Monica Hooters. Odds of induction: 75%

4. John Cougar Mellencamp--In recent years, the Hall of Fame has been inducting more acts that are bit more on the blue-collar common man side of popularity, grit and dirt rock 'n' roll. Such acts include ZZ Top, Black Sabbath, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and Van Halen. Now, John Cougar Mellencamp is such an act. He's played on Classic Rock stations, and even on my Retro shifts. A lot of popularity, and he has the common touch. Odds of induction: 66%

5. Dave Clark Five--Now we're into uncertain territory. A solid rock act from the '60's, but it's getting harder and harder to induct acts from the '60's. Plus, they were clean-cut and non-rebellious, and never got weird, unlike the Beatles or Rolling Stones. Still, after last year's supposed scandal, wherein the Dave Clark Five supposedly would have been inducted if some members' votes had been sent earlier and received before the deadline. After that, it's a little more than coincidence that they're on the ballot again, and I think certain voters will be more prompt in getting their votes postmarked in time. Odds of induction: 55%

6. Ventures--Again, '60's acts are getting harder and harder to induct. The Ventures are the quintessential surf rock band, with many hit albums over the years, and very influential to other up and coming guitarists over the years. Still, this may not be their year. Odds of induction: 45%

7. Chic--The Hall of Fame hasn't been kind to disco acts. The only two inducted acts that were strongest as disco acts are the Bee Gees (who defined the genre a hell of a lot more than Chic did) and Earth, Wind And Fire. Nonetheless, a few things have changed in Niles Rodgers and co.'s favor. One, a repeat nomination. I believe this is now their fourth nomination. Also, with two disco acts on the ballot, the odds that at least one gets in is better. That with the multiple nomination seems much more in Chic's favor this year. Odds of induction: 40%

8. Afrika Bambaataa--With Flash and the Five in, the door is opened for rap artists, and Afrika will be inducted eventually. But, Hall of Fame voters, in general, seem to vote for a variety of acts, and so I don't think most will vote for more than one hip-hop artist. And between this guy and the Beastie Boys, it's gonna be the Beastie Boys. Odds of induction: 35%

9. Donna Summer--As I mentioned, Hall of Fame voters seem to tend to vote for a variety of artists. With a fellow disco act on the ballot (Chic) and also a fellow strong female icon (Madonna), Donna really stands to be overlooked on this ballot, placing her least likely among the candidates. Odds of induction: 25%

Great article.
Other than Madonna -- which act nominated has a bigger claim to the hall than The Monkees?

The Ventures and The Dave Clark Five - over The Monkees?
Afrika and Lydon - Time Zone, I have that 12" too. Fantastic!

I absolutely love Madonna. She is one of the best live performers I have ever seen and you have to see her to know what I mean. But I am having a hard time with her getting in the first year when Janet Jackson isn't even on the ballet. Janet is more talented than Madonna and is far more respected in the music industry.

If by "Great article." you mean my review, thanks. It's not really an article though. That's just my review. Not copy/pasted from another source. I've posted it at a couple other forums though.

I would say Dave Clark Five and Ventures over the Monkees, though. Both were bands assembled on their own and came in playing their own instruments. Dave Clark Five were a somewhat harder, more driving kind of rock 'n' roll, and the Ventures have been influential to many other guitarists and one of two founding acts in surf music.