Blogcritics Comments on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Comment by diana hartman on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:44:49 EDT

Congratulations! This article has been selected for syndication to Boston.com, where it will be enjoyed by even more readers.

Comment by Friend Mouse on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:12:19 EDT

Mark, thank you for writing this! (Now if you could only explain things to my mom ...)

Comment by Miriam on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:03:32 EDT

"You do understand what that means, don't you? Can you spell H-I-J-A-B?" People are not having babies precisely BECAUSE the government takes that approach. We've known perfectly well, for over two generations, that the government just sees us as replaceable bits and their primary aim is to keep labour cheap. So why should we not give up? I come from a lower-middle class family of three children .We had absolutely no money for anything growing up and only one of us could afford to go to university. If our 'leaders' want to make our lives crappy and insecure, that's their perogative but we are under NO obligation to procreate more workers for them. Besides, Muslims take care of each other and that's why the government is terrified of them because their whole half-baked notion of a perfect society is one of competing individuals who do shit to each other while they sit like philosopher kings on top. We're tired of it.

Comment by Sue Lick on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:18:37 EDT

Mark, your article is beautifully written and I see your point, but it scares me. As someone who has just passed menopause without ever having children--and regretting it, I am nonplussed by the number of young people who decide they will never have children for all those reasons you state. What other species consciously decides not to procreate? None. It just seems unnatural. Besides, they are not children forever. They turn into adults, and you'll wish they were around when you get old. Even more unnatural is your decision to be celibate. Get a vasectomy. My husband had one 30 years ago. Believe me, they work. But it is a good article, and obviously, it has inspired lots of reactions. I wish you the best.

Comment by Dr Dreadful on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:54:24 EDT

See, it just goes to demonstrate that it's very rare when two people can't agree on something. I even agreed with Arch Conservative once - long ago...!

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:49:45 EDT

Exactly, Elvira. Well put. Thank you.

Comment by Elvira Black on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:52:08 EDT

Mark, thanks for your very honest response. Our society is so focused on sex as the be-all and end-all of existence, and as you said there are many other more enduring qualities that make up a happy, fulfilling marriage.

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:52:55 EDT

Sean Mahoney: "Knowing this and saying it aloud in a society that expects us to keep up with the Joneses is empowering and strangely a revelation." Now that's an excellent point, Sean. To "keep up with the Jones'," we must outspend them, out-consumer them, get a bigger car, build a bigger porch, put bigger trashcans full of unrecyclable plastic packaging that our latest expensive toys and gadgets came in out on the curb to announce our competitive streak to the world ... and have kids. Then the kids get drawn into it, we sign them up for everything, dress them to the nines, boast "my kid is better than your kid," and so on, ad infinitum. I really do wonder sometimes if this baby mania Maier refers to is really about honest love and desire for children or if it's really about "Oh dear, can't have people looking down on us, we'd better do what they expect and have kids, or they'll think we're not normal!" If this whole rotten, competitive, environmentally damaging "keeping up with the Jones'" garbage is what's considered normal, then I'm proud and happy to deviate from that norm.

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:42:53 EDT

Athena: You and your husband have your own reasons for not wanting kids and that's good enough. You're perfectly entitled to have the sort of marriage you want to have and if it doesn't involve children, that's perfectly all right. The point I guess I was trying to make is this: Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You're both happy and that's all that matters. The world won't end tomorrow just because there are people in this world who have no desire to breed. No, not all Muslims are bad. I salute your husband for making a responsible choice, along with you, re: children. Glad you enjoyed the piece, thanks for the kind words and best of luck to both of you -- MEM

Comment by Sean Mahoney on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:39:01 EDT

Bravo Mark! I totally agree with your point of view in this excellent piece. As a gay man, I'm now feeling pressure to adopt kids!?! I love kids but they are not for me. Knowing this and saying it aloud in a society that expects us to keep up with the Joneses is empowering and strangely a revelation.

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:36:17 EDT

Nancy: "Then what's the point of being married? I thought the major part of it was having unlimited access to sex?" You could look at marriage that way, but I'd say it's about a lot more than sex on tap. It's about spending your life, and all it entails, with someone you can't imagine being without. Because you love the other person so much and want to hang on to them, you seal it with a vow and a ceremony and a legal document. In short, marriage is about sealing your relationship with your soulmate. Then, you can guilt-free sex as much as you want. But neither the wife nor I are bothered about sex; we're both pretty asexual people, it just doesn't matter and isn't a point that divides us. Just as you can have children guilt-free in marriage, but the wife and I don't care for that either. Which is exactly why being celibate is such a wise choice. Elvira: "I presume that abortion or the morning after pill are not considered viable options if all else failed?" And Elvira? No offence taken, but to be perfectly honest, about the whole celibacy matter: neither of us are bothered about sex. We're both pretty asexual. So I don't worry myself with the best form of contraception because I've already found it and it does not stand in the way of my emotional, spiritual or physical well-being nor does it imperil the relationship I have with my wife. I'm celibate with her full assent and approval and with no hard feelings on her part. And, no, we'd never think about abortion as we're both strongly opposed to it -- as a convenient form of birth-control anyway. But that's a whole 'nother can of worms ...

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:24:58 EDT

Dr. D: Thanks for the kind words here. Much appreciated, and more power to you and your wife. See, it just goes to demonstrate that it's very rare when two people can't agree on something. You would have to search high and low and probably never find someone who you would disagree with a perfect 100% of the time. We all find common ground somewhere. I'm glad we're in agreement on this.

Comment by Elvira Black on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:09:05 EDT

Dr. D, I hear you about the cats. Thing is, there are some "animals" who can't even take care of a pet, let alone kids. Cats are low maintenance, but they still have to be tended to as one would a child--if you take the responsibility to adopt them. Lots of non-pet owners don't "get it," just as some of us don't "get" the appeal of a bunch of rugrats. (just kidding, folks).

Comment by Dr Dreadful on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:37:17 EDT

Mark, I think this is the first time I've actually agreed wholeheartedly with one of your pieces (well, actually there was that one about the fox). My wife and I are coming up on six years of marriage and are childless. While we haven't made the final, definitive decision, Not having kids is looking like the most viable and likely option. We have a number of reasons, not all of which are in your list, but the wholesale disruption is a major one. We recently adopted two cats, and even they have caused quite major shifts in our routines. They need to be fed, watered, cleaned, paid attention to and taken to the vet. Our clothes and furniture have to be lint-rollered and vacuumed constantly. When we travel, we have to find someone to look after them. And cats are by far the easiest and lowest-maintenance pets to look after. If they're this much trouble, just think of the impact of human children in our lives. So we will very likely remain childless. You're absolutely right about how much this seems to bother people, although in my case they tend to be humorous about it, telling us, "Oh, you'll come around". A few years back a friend of ours even had a bet with her mother that we'd be pregnant within a year. (Actually, I think she was shooting for six months. her mother went for a year.) Needless to say, they both lost. I do think the celibacy is taking it a bit far though. Of course the various birth control methods have failure rates, but the percentages are pretty good.

Comment by Athena on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:02:02 EDT

Firstly, brilliant article!!!! Secondly I am married to a Muslim although I am white and non religious, even though I was raised Christian. He is not a terrorist but a decent man, gentle, kind, hard working and sweet. Neither of us want children. But not all Muslims are bad people even though some (obviously!!) are terrible and they have caused us a great deal of trouble - not only the same troubles they have caused society but also we have had to deal with Islamaphobia too! Well, I am NOT having babies just so there are less Muslims I'm sorry but I'm not. I don't want them, I have some BAD genes and I just don't think I could do the job justice. Plus I am not thrilled with the state of the world today and the state of many teenagers. ANYWAY if we DID have children, I bet HIS family want them raised Muslim and mine would want them raised Christian. If his family won, are you saying you wish our children had never been born just cos of their religion? Even if they were wonderful? Thanks a bunch! Just remember people often marry their own but NOT ALWAYS!! What about THAT - not all WASPS marry and have children with other WASPS! Anyway thanks for a wonderful article, Mark and it expresses a lot of how we as a couple feel.

Comment by Elvira Black on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:14:15 EDT

Mark, you could have a whole 'nother article based on the celibacy thing. I did think that vasectomies were fairly foolproof--though reversible if you choose. I presume that abortion or the morning after pill are not considered viable options if all else failed? Just curious--please don't take offense.

Comment by Nancy on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:30:32 EDT

Oh, I'm not surprised at all. I've seen all my friends pressured that way, especially by whining, wheedling, demanding, bullying parents who want grandkids. They're the worst of all pressures couples face, IMO.

Comment by Nancy on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:28:53 EDT

Then what's the point of being married? I thought the major part of it was having unlimited access to sex? You mean celibate all the time, or just when it's "that time of month"? I'm not married, so I don't know the intimate details of marriage, except by hearsay.

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:27:39 EDT

Nancy, you'd be surpised by how many idiots get suckered into having kids simply because they think, "well, it's the done thing, isn't it?" I wish more people would have a mind of their own when it comes to having -- or not having -- kids.

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:24:35 EDT

Elvira: No, I'm not a devout Catholic. One of my best friends is, however, and he frowns upon my choice to be celibate within my marriage. From what I have come to learn with him, a lot of rumpy-pumpy is expected by Catholics if you're happily married, because it leads to that very thing that Catholics are so damn fond of: LARGE families. So, no, obviously I'm not Catholic. I'm celibate, with my wife's blessing, because it's the surest way of ensuring she doesn't get pregnant. Condoms fail, vasectomies fail, birth-control pills fail, "cycle of the month" planning fails. However, celibacy never fails and therefore never leads to unwanted children.

Comment by Nancy on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:20:04 EDT

Only a fool would have kids just because everyone else does, or that's what's expected. Only a fool insists that everybody breed because "hands are needed". NO hands are needed. We're overflowing with "hands" - along with the concomitant parts that go with them - all over the world, because of relentless, uncontrolled, unthinking breeding - usually by those least genetically & intellectually qualified to do so. One thing that struck me a long time ago was that nearly every study on the matter, without exception, indicated that the higher the educational & intellectual level of the parents, the fewer kids they produced. QED. As Gonzo says, 'nuff said.

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:19:13 EDT

Doug, are you kidding me? I'd move back to America, for Canada is just as bad, as wimpy and politically correct toward its jihadists as Britain is.

Comment by Elvira Black on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:18:57 EDT

Mark, I basically agree with all you've said, and I too never intended to have children, and don't. But one thing you said gave me pause: "I decided a long time ago that I would become celibate, with my wife's approval." Is this literally true? If so, I'm assuming you're a devout Catholic who doesn't believe in birth control? Also, there are a lot of unapologetic single people out there by choice or otherwise. If someone is stupid or tactless enough to question why you don't have kids, they're probably not worth the time of day anyway. Plus, sad to say, the way the world is now, who knows what kind of future children will have--if they have any future at all. And it is probably tougher to raise kids than ever before--both in terms of expense as well as control over the outside influences they are exposed to that can undermine even the best efforts and intentions of many parents. Ruvy, I see your point as well. Like most issues, it's not as cut and dried as it may seem on the surface.

Comment by Doug Hunter on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:53:34 EDT

Moving to Canada?

Comment by Mark Edward Manning on We're Here, We're Childless: Deal With It

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 06:59:31 EDT

Ruvy: I don't take any personal offense here at all; I know you would never intend such against me. Mark Steyn argued the same in his book America Alone, that Europe is ripe to be re-introduced back into the Caliphate because the natives aren't reproducing enough. And that's a very good point. The Muslim immigrants are having the babies that I and others like me won't have. Very good and admittedly very worrying point. But ... Even if the native birthrate was through the roof, the Government would still be letting in loads of immigrants, including Muslims, because it's a government that just can't say no. No matter what the native birthrate was, the Government won't stop until Britain resembles a real-life Silent Running. I won't worry about it, for there's always an "opt-out" option in case Muslims do control the entire politico-social fabric on this continent. I shouldn't have to say what that is, but it will be highly considered by yours truly.