Painful truth? More like painfully delusional. For those not eager to prove themselves as gullible as the author of this piece I'd recommend some reading at Debunking 911.

Dave

oh no....not this crap again!!!!

Dude that debunking page has been debunked so many times, it's silly.. Me, like MANY others, will never go back to believing the "Official 911 story" which you guys ALWAYS try and shove down our throats.

Buildings made of concrete and steel can't just pulverize to dust from a fire burning in less then in hour. Use common sense.

And why did NORAD stand down?

Face it.. 9/11 was a false flag attack.

I think you need more evidence to support your theory than a "trust me, there's lots of stuff on other websites." A claim this unusual (like the JFK conspiracy theorists) needs substantiation.

In Jameson Veritas

As proof that the OP is correct about the unwillingness of the folks in the US to face the truth: the firestorm that has occurred every time I have indicated that only Dick Cheney had motive, opportunity and means to coordinate 9/11--not any foreigner and certainly not a foreigner living supposedly in a cave in Afghanistan with a dialysis machine.

Cheney had perhaps a little help from George Bush Padre--who also raked in big bucks because of 9/11.

It's so obvious anyone living outside the US saw it on 9/11 itself.

So why is everyone hiding his head in the sand and demanding evidence, when simple logic indicates who did it, why and how?

You tell me--never had my head there for one moment. Nor in my ass....

There is tons of evidence that the towers were brought down with controlled demolition and zero evidence that fire brought them down.

As far as JFK, guess you missed E Howard Hunt's death bed confession in Rolling Stone's April 07 edition. Google it and read it.

How anyone can believe anything that the bush cabal pushes at us through their billion dollar pr expenditures is beyond me.

My understanding is that a controlled demolition of three such large buildings would have taken several weeks of work to install enough explosives.

Hmm, what to believe? A bunch of terrorists made a daring attack on the USA or there was a conspiracy at the highest level of the US Government to stage an atrocity against their own people for commercial motives without anybody noticing a thing and managing to keep it a secret too?

I'm no fan of the Bush 2 administration and would be very surprised, in a sick way rather impressed, if anybody associated with it had either the brains or the balls to pull off such a thing. Lacking any inside knowledge, I'm not saying categorically that they didn't but it sure seems implausible.

What you fail to get is that it is the ONLY plausible scenario.

Besides, the CIA has had LOTS of experience doing those controlled demolitions. And they had an office in the WTC--until a few days before 9/11. It doesn't take that much intelligence--pun intended--when you have all the time in the world and experts in the task on the payroll.

Do the 911 loonies never give up? The fact that supposedly educated people continue to believe and perpetuate this crap is a aad commentary on our education system and general lack of common sense in our population.

Have these people never even seen a controlled demolition? There's video of the towers going down and it bears no resemblance at all to controlled demo.

And here's another hint. demolition explosives don't generate enough heat by themselves to melt steel any more than jet fuel fires do. And the magnesium residue is consistent with the level in concrete not what would be there if thermite were used.

Here's an experiment for u to try. Take a small steel rod and start bending it back and forth until it breaks. Did u use thermite or bombs to do it? No. Torsion pressure was enough to break it and to generate enough heat to soften it substantially. +hat do u think happens when all the potential energy of a 767 moving at over 300mph is transfered into some steel beams and then fire causes more and more loose material to start sliding down them. Friction and tortion are more than enough to soften the metal.

"The fact that supposedly educated people continue to believe and perpetuate this crap"

Many conspiracy theorists I know in person seem to be rather proud of their intellect. I think believing a conspiracy enables to them to think they're smarter, that they can see things that others can't. Basically it's an ego trip for them.

Others just spread the lies for propaganda purposes, scaring the sheeple over to their side. Take your pick on the poster of this article.

From the author's bio at the bottom of the article:

"Author of Delusional Democracy..."

Good enough for me.

Christopher gets to the heart of it. I'd believe that someone in the Bush administration might suggest something like the WTC attack, but pulling it off would be completely beyond them, and pulling it off AND keeping the hundreds involved in it silent all this time. Utterly impossible.

Dave

Bah, humbug!

We may need a garbage bag of popcorn to see how the comments unfold here.

Butter, anyone?

I think excessive butter residue from microwaved popcorn is what weakened the columns in the WTC.

Dave

That's why you never want to yell "Butter!!" in a crowded theater.

Descendants of Orville Reddenbacher have just been put on the No Fly list.

Yes, a classic dilemna: who am I gonna believe, Joel Hirschorn or my own lying eyes. The conspiracy theories here are six kinds of stupid right on the face. We KNOW exactly the names of those who did the deed and where they came from. We know HOW they did it. We got it on VIDEO.

Yet, polls seem to indicate that something like 25% of the American public believe some form of an inside job conspiracy theory. Yet they are allowed to vote, and influence public policy. And their votes count as much as mine.

Parker and Stone summed it up nicely on South Park by concluding that, yes, 25% of the country are retarded.

The Bush gang doesn't have the organizational skills to have had anything to do with bringing down the twin towers. They even faked their role in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Every move made by the US since Clinton left office has been orchestrated by 10 Downing Street. There's a sucker born every minute in the US.

Parker and Stone are way off the mark. 90% of the population is low fuctioning and 7% are just getting by.

A 9/11 lawsuit is being filed by former Chief Economist of the US Dept of Labor, Dr Morgan Reynolds. The US District Court in Southern NY recently unsealed the case and Reynolds' attorney, Jerry Leaphart, is now notifying the Defendants.

Some of the Defendants include Boeing, American Airlines, and United Airlines.

See here for unsealed case PDF:
Click here

Another reason we seriously need reform of our legal system. Regulation by litigation is getting very old and extremely intrusive.

It is interesting that so many who attack the folks who believe 9/11 was a false flag characteristically rely upon ridicule, derision and ad hominem attacks. It is also interesting that failing to achieve credibility using the former, they then utilize (well-bunked) pseudo-scientific criticisms if they attempt any arguments at all.

The U.S. as well as other nations have a long history of using false flag attacks to compel their populaces into wars - typically for the financial benefit of an elite few. At the expense of the people in terms of money, resources and dead sons and daughters. Unwittingly, citizens make such sacrifices over and over again because they are so easily manipulated by fear. And it is also the fear engendered by having to confront the possibility that much of everything they thought they 'knew' about their country and government is also a lie that sends them retreating back into their safe consensus trance. That perpetuates the lie. And they will do everything they can to protect it.

The approximate 33% of Americans who have been courgeous enough to confront the lie have awakened to the realization that Americans have been duped into supporting wars in two countries for the theft of oil resources in service of the neocon dreams of global hegemony; i.e., the "unipolar world". That the next illegal war of aggression for resources will be directed against Iran. That they have been duped and terrified into giving up essential Constitutional rights in service of the false and endless 'war on terror'. None of this would have been possible without the psyop event known as 9/11.

There was a good reason why Orwell had the 'people' in Animal Farm represented by Sheep. "The farm animals who inhabit the Manor Farm are mistreated and abused by Farmer Jones. The animals rebel, expel Jones, and take over the farm, which they rename Animal Farm. Soon, however, the pigs (who represent the party bosses) begin to take special privileges for themselves, e.g. extra food. They enlist the farm's dogs as enforcers to put down any dissent, and they teach the sheep (rank and file) to speak the party line on demand. "

'Sheep' is indeed an apt descriptor for those who can't find the courage to honestly examine the events of 9/11 and who can only endlessly repeat the 'party line'. Of course, it is not entirely the sheep's fault. They have been endlessly indoctrinated by a main stream media that endlessly parrots the Pigs' official line or otherwise distracts them with pablum about Paris Hilton, the girl in Aruba and Michael Jackson; i.e., the created 'sensation' of the moment.

To see a listing of courageous Americans - Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials; Engineers and Architects; Pilots and Aviation Professionals; University Professors; Survivors and Family Members; Entertainment and Media Professionals who have been courageous enough to voice their criticisms of the 'Official Government Conspiracy Theory' go to Patriots Question 9/11

And remember, 33% equals about 100 million of us.
dr rdw
forensic neuropsychologist

Oy, these people are tiresome.

Not only tiresome but speaking with forked tongues.

I don't think it would have been possible for a major project as the deliberate blowing up of three buildings with explosives would have been possible to achieve without anybody noticing. Nor do I believe it would have been possible to maintain a secret of such enormity.

So what if 100 million Americans believe it? Even more of them believe in imaginary superbeings! Americans spend too long working to habe enough time to think about anything. Productivity is the enemy of the people!

Mwuahahahahahahaa

Thank you, Medicis. My take is, if there is no conspiracy, then why should anyone balk at a real, unbiased investigation by non-partisan, non-administration-appointed experts with no political or financial axes to grind? Furthermore, if there were no conspiracy, then why did Bush & Cheney refuse to be interviewed, except together, and not under oath - if they didn't have to coordinate stories & didn't intend to lie thru their teeth? There's a whole book of unanswered questions & iffy conditions that basically rendered the "official" 9/11 investigation report suspect & invalid to say the least. If, as they claim, there is nothing awry with 9/11 as reported, then do those who don't believe there's a problem with the original report kick up such a fuss? Wouldn't a second, more thorough & independent investigation - enforced by subpoenas, lawsuits, impeachment, or jail time if necessary against certain administration holdouts - wouldn't that just prove them right, & silence the conspiracy nuts once & for all? That alone, I should think, would be worth it.

Stephen Colbert was a rerun last night where he had on the editor of The Skeptic who in about 30 seconds managed to lay out the essence of why these conspiracy freaks are so nutty and he did it quite effectively. In particular he pointed to one consistent lie they base a lot of their arguments on, which somneone on here mentioned earlier, the idea that it was a controlled demolition because the towers fell from the top down, but of course if you go and look at films of controlled demolitions they look nothing like the WTC collapse and they all fall from the bottom up, not the top down.

Dave

Isn't there some sort of "full disclosure" required at Blog Critics? You know, some sort of "By the way, I belong to this crackpot group which I am praising so profusely."

AE911Truth

I'd love to see your response to NIST, Joel, but you seem to have decided that you'd rather talk about cognitive dissonance and how hard it is to get other folks to join the nutter parade. No surprise there, though; nobody in the 9-11 Denial Movement ever ends up dealing in their specialty.

Ask Richard Gage for me if he requires that the steel in the buildings he designs be fireproofed, and if he does, ask him why? After all, we all know fire can't bring down a structural steel building (never mind that Kader Toy Factory or the Enigma Business Park). So why would he require fireproofing?

The truth hurts, indeed.

The point is, this administration more than other other in the past 100 years has lied, cheated, & otherwise misled so consistently about so much so often, that even if they ARE completely innocent, at least half the population can't or won't believe anything they say. 33% believe the administration did it. Over 50% think the administration may not have done it themselves, but did know about it beforehand & failed or refused to do anything to prevent it. Their only defenders are the usual hard-core tiny minority of right-wing BushCo apologists. Even people like my neighbor - a staunch GOP conservative - think there's something rotten in DC/Denmark & that the 9/11 Commission report is not telling the truth. If HE is doubtful, then the entire thing is doubtful, since he's usually one of the Faithful.

As I said, I should think the detractors would support such a re-investigation if only for once & for all to shut up those who think BushCo did it.

And...why would it have been difficult to plant explosives as needed? No one but those involved would have known it was being done. They had all the time in the world to get it done without anyone being the wiser. When you see maintenance teams working in a large building, do you stop & analyze what they're doing & why? Or do you just go on your way, assuming they're there for valid reasons? Or do you even notice them to begin with? For most, such people simply fade into the walls, as not being a detail worth noticing. Again, some of the more recent accelerants can & do produce those kinds of extreme reactions, and are remarkably compact. No one need be seen trundling huge kegs of chemicals around - and again, if they are, who's going to stop & wonder at it, if a maintenance worker is seen wheeling a 55-gal. drum of some unknown substance down a corridor? Do you? I don't, & I doubt I ever would. My point being, you don't need an army to have set up the situation, nor would there have been any need for secrecy, for that matter. In fact, the more openly it was done, the better. Where else can you better hide a leaf than in a forest?

In any event, I think a second, more thorough & independent investigation couldn't hurt, & might be inestimably valuable as much for what it didn't find as for what it might.

I've been amazed that someone is that bothered by the conspiracy theories that they've been spraypainting the web adress of 911thetruth all over Cardiff! (Capital of Wales in the United Kingdom)... Which was enough to make me take a squint at it and the linked Loose Change film... All the evidence I saw seemed pretty circumstantial and, to be honest, so far beyond my knowledge of building collapse, aviation etc as to be SOMETHING I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO JUDGE. Is a reinvestigation a campaign issue in the US? Perhaps it should be if Nancy's figures are correct.

It's an issue only among those who find the Commission report upsetting enough to want to know the truth, as the author says. Most people don't seem to want to know, but would rather go on suspecting the worst but unable to definitively prove it, which to my mind is inconsistant as well as illogical. As for the politicians, they don't want to talk about anything that isn't about themselves and/or aggrandizing themselves or their respective parties, while the administration would prefer to deep-6 the entire issue, & then some, for obvious reasons.

I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between the two camps, & that a more thorough & impartial investigation will never happen, because too many rich & powerful people would be implicated or at least exposed as being incompetent if not criminally complicit. But at least, as I say, it might put paid to the rampant sublevel rumormongering among the majority. As it is, it's already assumed urban myth proportions that, unlike most urban myths, does have a serious & adverse effect on citizens views of government & its trustworthiness as well as ability to protect them.

If anyone has ever seen a demolition on TV, the explosives strapped onto or drilled into the buildings support columns are pretty hard to miss. To say nothing of the miles of cabling. C'mon folks, let's try and use a little common sense here...

And how do you sleep at night Dave, Polly and Christopher? Believing your Government is well-capable of dreaming of a massive attack on its own civilians but too dim to organise it! ;O)

Has it reached Kennedy proportions yet? And, it would be interesting to know how many Americans believe what about that granddaddy of conspiracy theories... The CIA in the billiards room with the mafia's lead pipe?

Princess Diana's death remains a magnet for conspiracy theorists too - killed by MI5 or 6 at the behest (or at least a "Who will rid me of this turbulent Princess" type outburst from someone) of the royal family to stop her marrying a Muslim is one popular one.

Actually, I could well believe that some newspaper set it up (Diana's demise, that is, not 9/11 ... well, on second thought, maybe that too) in order to have something to make journalistic/sensationalistic hay out of for a long, long, loooooong time. There's some people I wouldn't put ANYTHING past.

Oi, Ricketts, no! Ain't my bleeding government.

Sorry Christopher but I do not consider Red Scum fans to be citizens of the United Kingdom, I am sure you understand ;o) (We've got minus three!)

British newspaper The Daily Express, over which Dodi Al Fayed's father Mohamedd seems to have some sway runs a Diana front page what seems like every day - usually concerning some new revelation... Still, we are due to get an inquest soonish - although the fact that two judges have already stood down from that onerous duty will no doubt fuel even more craziness...

The towers were demolished from the top down. The outer core columns were blown near the welds by rc, accessed from the elevator shafts under cover of the ACE elevator renovation project.

Mossad was the contractor, not CIA. Urban Moving Systems handled the explosives. The George Washington Bridge was not a target. The UMS van was relocating RDX when it was stopped. Dan Rather reported this.

I hope that 9 11 wakes more people up to the eminent peril we face. 9 11 is only the tip of a huge iceberg of crimes and acts that could only be considered as "beyond the pale".

When you learn about DU, the UN sex slave operation, fluorinated water, the secretive North American Union (fascism), Agenda 21 (human sacrafices for entertainment), banks breaking 3rd world countries, war crimes the drug dealing & money laundering, the 911 criminal act pales in comparison.

All of these weeds have one common root. Private banks print our money then lend it to governments at face value. Their profits from this fund the think tanks & focus groups that direct government and create culture.

Monetary reform is the true cause we must all embrace. We can have things much better and much easier than times before this neoliberal agenda became obvious.

Watch "The Money Masters" free on google video.

"As I said, I should think the detractors would support such a re-investigation if only for once & for all to shut up those who think BushCo did it."

You're kidding, right Nancy??

Have the Kennedy conspiracists shut up yet???

As the 6th anniversary of the US Reichstag Fire bears down on folks in the US, questioning that official version is simply IN THE AIR (pax, Phil Collins).

There are a number of reasons, but the primary one is that most folks are now finally waking up to how they have been suckered out of their basic rights by a criminal regime.

I would like to hope that the Long Weekend of the Deliberately Brain-dead Mall Rats in over. But, as a character in the latest Paul Auster novel, The Brooklyn Follies, said: "I will see it when I believe it".

And that quote, from the novel that I haven't finished yet but which I assume will end more or less on 9/11, is the heart of the issue.

As the OP indicated, folks simply don't want to believe that THEIR government--the one THEY put in office and CONTINUE to support (although I think probably the last rats on the sinking ship of belief may well be confined to this and other rightwing redneck beer and belch sites)--would do such a heinous caper.

Then there are the folks such as the comments editor (what a laugh) whose reason for believing such absolute nonsense is that the Bush Gang simply are not capable of executing such a caper.

Wrong--on both counts.

A. It's obvious that the Bush Gang WOULD (AND DID) commit that crime against humanity:

1. How many hundreds of thousands are dead in Iraq and Afghanistan?

2. The number of US soldiers killed in both places far exceeds the number of deaths on 9/11.

3. And what about the folks that they let die without a sniff of remorse in the wake of Katrina?

4. They are threatening and itching to raise the number of dead and the number of crimes against humanity by dropping nuclear weapons on Iran.

Get real. These guys have really raked it in thanks to 9/11--and they want to keep that rake moving.

B. That the Bush Gang is so incompetent that they could not have pulled off 9/11 was the topic of a good article in this morning's La Jornada here in Mexico, "Robert Fisk y la conspiración del 9/11" (Fisk recently promoted the Incompetent Theory in a piece of his own in The Independent, indicating that the Bush Gang has made a mess out of everything else, so they couldn't have pulled off 9/11.)

Here are some of the things they have NOT messed up on:

1. The continued development of a nuclear arsenal

2. The destruction of the Geneva Conventions in regard to torture

3. The severe limitation of civil liberties in the US

4. The SUCCESSFUL MANIPULATION of US public OPINION in regard to 9/11

5. The SUPPORTED invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and the control of the resources of Iraq

6. The so far successful manipulation of US public opinion in regard to the necessity to invade Iran (and control the petroleum and gas of the Persian Gulf)

7. A number of etceteras of which even the most blind among you are very well aware.

In the face of such an obvious fairy tale by the Bush Gang, it is simply astounding that there are ANY folks who still believe that a small group of forfeign fanatics bought some box cutters at WalMart, hijacked without any trouble at all several passenger jets and drove them into the walls of the WTC and the Pentagon--and that the impact and the fire caused the collapse of the buildings and the deaths of more than 3,000 people.

Absolutely amazing! If it were a made-for-tv movie you would say, "Nah, couldn't happen that way!"

Yet you believe it if someone who has NEVER in his 7 years in office told the truth even ONCE tells you it's true?

I have a number of propositions involving my Nebraska oceanfront property that I am sure you will be interested in....

Nancy,

By your comments its obvious that you are in the 25th percentile....


(Parker and Stone summed it up nicely on South Park by concluding that, yes, 25% of the country are retarded)

JOM

Very likely. Well - move over, then, JOM; we'll be company.

When did the supposed explosives get into the buildings? Before or after the impact?

If before, what do you think would happen if you flew a plane into a building lined with thermite? (Not a "controlled" demolition, I'd bet.) If after, how much time and personnel would it take to load up two of the world's biggest buildings with explosives? Unnoticed? During an evacuation? Without accident?

Just keep jerking yourself off about the mechanics of how it was done--exactly what you good little sheep are SUPPOSED to do.

There is not a single person on this site who is an expert on demoltion of buildings--so stop diddling yourself--and others--and start your BRAIN working.

You've been spending way too much time--6 years, in fact, down there in the Nether Regions.

"When did the supposed explosives get into the buildings? Before or after the impact?"

They were built into the structure in the early 70s. Nixon caused 9/11 posthumously.

The best reason for flushing the US and its people down the toilet of history is the sheer number of trivial-minded simpletons who would rather shop at WalMart than be FREE.

Therefore, you deserve to be slaves.

So the birdbrain who spends half their time complaining about discrimination tars 302,791,106 people with the same brush.

birdbrain (singular)
their (plural)

You have not communicated.

Learn English.

"They were built into the structure in the early 70s. Nixon caused 9/11 posthumously."

What a pity he didn't live to see it.

To judge from the squawking, I guess my comment was a painful 9/5 truth. Learn anything!

I am labeling every person in the US with the tag of unmitigated stupidity. So what?

I would have thought stating such a thing was the epitome of discrimination and unmitigatedly stupid, that's what.

Wrong again.

Just the facts, m'am.

chris, I have an idea: find another site to post on so that you are not monopolizing this one when you are supposed to be looking at the comments of OTHERS.

"I am labeling every person in the US with the tag of unmitigated stupidity"

You're a Bill Engvall fan? You do love redneck humor!

You don't deal in facts, moonraven, just prejudice and stupid remarks that undermine your own position.

You do your own causes a greater disservice than the majority of your opponents could manage. That you do it with such considerable energy and persistence only reinforces the conjecture that you are nothing but a trojan mule.

"...only reinforces the conjecture that you are nothing but a trojan mule."

And not a very smart one, at that.

I only need to be smarter than the rest of you dimwits.

And I clearly am.

Chris, your concern for my shooting myself in the foot is admirable--but it is unwanted--and your hysterical dedication to personal attacks against me on this site would SEEM to be against the rules.

[Gratuitous vulgarity deleted by Comments Editor.]

Moonraven, there's only one place where you are always right and smarter than the rest of us and that's in the safety of your own imagination. Out in the rest of the world you just sound silly.

As to hysteria, I reckon you are generating. Mind you, you sure are good at projecting, whether it's hysteria or vomit!

If you paid closer attention, I think you'd find that I am not making personal attacks on you, I am very accurately calling your moves and you just don't like it.

Furthermore, you have long since forfeited your right to make any kind of complaint due to your determined refusal to refrain from making personal attacks yourself.

Chris, try to download the Aqua Teen Hunger Force episode with the Mooninites. Watch it. Come back, and re-read some of Moonraven's comments. You'll be amazed.

Suss, I must admit I have no fucking idea what the Aqua Teen Hunger Force is. I have felt like that when stoned though!

I would just observe that even if the Bush admin didn't plan and execute 9/11 themselves, they sure as hell extracted maximum political advantage from it afterwards. And then some.

Now - was that a conspiracy? Which seems to be a question more worth our attention, since the number of armed services personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan (Incidentally, I'm trying to steer us back on topic on some of the threads where it has changed to MR. Why should we encourage her?) now exceeds the number of those who died on 9/11.

Doc, I could easily believe that the Bush administration used the events of 9/11 for their own advantage but I'd tag it as what passes for politics these days rather than a conspiracy as such.

It is ALWAYS about me, doc.

Nobody else posting here has even a clue about any of the topics, so all I have to do is post something--anything--and it becomes all about me.

Sometimes, in fact, I do not even have to post anything.

I didn't realize Playboy mags had become so expensive that you can't afford them anymore and have to masturbate to my virtual image on blogcritics.

Back, ONCE AGAIN, to the TOPIC, here's another one of the supposed messes which the Bush Gang counts as a success, and which, from their point of view, IS:


"Two years after Katrina, as Bush flew from the bayou to Baghdad, a People's Hurricane tribunal-putting every level of government on trial-was wrapping up in New Orleans. A group was selling T-shirts there that reads: "Don't believe the hype. Gulf Coast recovery is not 'slow'-it is a privatization scheme that takes away our homes, schools, hospitals and human rights." Mission accomplished?" Amy Goodman, CommonDreams, today.

True enough, Chris. My point is more that rather than obsess about how the Towers came down, we should pay more attention to what happened afterwards.

That slogan is way too long and uncatchy to sell many t-shirts.

But Doc, don't you think it's important to take a stand against falsehoods?

Most assuredly: by calling out the most amateurish ones for the crap that they are and moving on to something more worthwhile.

The alleged 9/11 conspiracy is a minority fantasy cooked up by a few crackpots who've watched one too many episodes of The X Files. Like the JFK assassination theories, it's not worth one's time.

In contrast, there are ideas like creationism, which is equally extravagantly false but is sincerely believed by a significant number of people.

As proof that the OP is correct about the unwillingness of the folks in the US to face the truth: the firestorm that has occurred every time I have indicated that only Dick Cheney had motive, opportunity and means to coordinate 9/11

Yes. Motive, opportunity, and means have all been presented over and over and over again. The one thing that has not been presented is: any concrete, or in any way discernable, evidence of a government collusion or of demolition or of anything and anyone else besides a group of Islamic extremists who conspired to attack the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Not only has no credible evidence surfaced to support the notion that "9/11 was an inside job"/"The WTC was brought down by controlled demolition"/"A missile hit the Pentagon"/"There was no crash of Flight 93," I've not even seen any incredible evidence to support that theory. Well, unless you count Loose Change as evidence - which you shouldn't - since that film is only slightly more credible than the notion of an Easter Bunny.

Plus, as Chris notes, the idea of a Bush Administration conspiracy to perpetrate the 9/11 attacks requires me to believe that the Bush Administration has some level of competence. And that is an inhuman stretch.

Hah, all you 'debunkers' who call us 'troofer nutcases', really need to stop using www.debunking911.com as an 'end all' source of information.

That anonymous site has more holes than the Kean Hamilton report.

If you 'debunkers' are right, and buildings can collapse straight down into their footprint at near free fall speed (WTC7), from some fires and damage on one side, then the Controlled Demolition companies are charging waaaaaay to much, and are spending Wwaaaaay too much time researching how to bring some building down.

Next time we need to take down a Vegas tower, lets just create some external wall damage, and plant a few fires, and stand back and watch the tower collapse neatly into a pile, with walls caving in onto themselves.

Really, snap out of it.

Great article by the way, it's good to see some people still have their thinking cap on.

Zlaya have you SEEN the photos of WTC7? I'm guessing not. Your 'some damage on one side' is one of the huge steel retaining pylons from the tower next to it slicing right through the building and totally destroying its structural integrity. It was so unsound they wouldn't even send firemen in.

And for that matter the walls of the two towers did NOT 'cave in'. Take a look at the diagrams of the damage from the walls buckling outwards sometime. Buildings for hundreds of yards were hit with parts of the walls - that's not what happens in a controlled demolition.

Oh, and they didn't fall at the speed you suggest. It took upwards of 30 minutes for each of them to fall, it just appeared to be faster because of the more dramatic and rapid final collapse.

Dave

will the 75% of the sane people here say "I" if you sick of being told to "wake up" or "check the facts, 9/11 was an inside job". it seems to me the only argument CT's have left is that NORAD stood down, which is not true and can be thouroghly debunked. then theres the pentagon missile theory that fails so miserably compared to the real facts. the missile theory can get absolutely crushed. hers how it stands. over 100 saw a large airliner, 26 specifically saw an AA plane, 0 saw a missile. there was recognizable debris from an AA plane at the crash site, including peices with the AA logo on it. no missile debris. then theres is grandaddy conspiracy smasher of them all. ALL THE BODIES FROM FLIGHT 77 WERE IDENTIFIED. and the videos cant be released because they are still owned by the people at the road station, gas station, etc. then theres the flight 93 never crashed theory. all the bodies from UA 93 were identified, including the terrorists, and recognizable luggage was sent back to the families of victims. phone calls were made from passengers to family saying there were terrorists,done. about new york. there were no explosives in the buildings obviously. u have to rip off drywall to put explosives in and the port authority is patrolling those buildings 24/7 that means they would have to be in on it. along with half the world aqccording to CT's. and flight 177 175 did hit the wtc. plane victims were identified. an AA stewardess was found on a manhattan street bound and gagged. the black box recordings clearly says no allah no allah right before the plane crashed. plane parts were found. building 7 was pelted with flying debris from the two largest buildings in the world. had intense fires. was missing 30% of its southwest corner. so it collapsed. i guess the only thing conspiracy theorists can hold onto now is misqouting people and coincidences. but no real evidence.

Not only did over 100 see the pentagon plane, but there is video tape of it which when slowed down and analyzed clearly shows the plane. The only missile anywhere near that large is a Polaris or a Triton and you can't launch them horizontally.

Dave

Do you have a link to that tape, Dave? From what I've seen and read, the frame rate from the one camera that actually filmed the impact was too slow to capture a Boeing 767 traveling at 500 m.p.h. So in one frame you see a peaceful September morning in Virginia; the next is the side of the Pentagon erupting in flames.

Not that I'm going over to the conspiracists' side, you understand: that plane-shaped hole in the building afterwards was pretty convincing.

Anything is possible. We have the proof LBJ planed the death of JFK and then gave his body to bigfoot who is really just a large hairy space creature from the planet Elvis. Im sure you have seen the pictures of many UFO's over NY prior to 9/11. Dont forget to vote for the gay toilet-seat sitter.

SR. Back from the dead. And I see that you too have contracted Duplicate Comment Disease.

Hey Doc. How large can hemroids grow and what do you use to help them grow larger. I plan to enter the 2008 world,s largest hemroid contest.

Thanks

Well, SR, the tried and tested method used to be sitting in a World Trade Center restroom with Larry Craig whilst texting Mark Foley. Sadly, of course, that became unavailable after September 11th 2001. The conspiracy theorists have it that George W. Bush orchestrated 9/11 in order to prevent you from winning the 2008 Largest Hemorrhoid Championship. Rumor has it he's got his eye on the title himself. He wants it to be his lasting legacy as President.

Doc, there are several different tapes, at least three of which show some sign of the plane. One shows the nosecone, one shows a reflection off the tail plus another part of the plane quite clearly and one shows the full body sliding along the ground and very blurred. The crash site suggests the plane hit the ground before hitting the building, so it may have hit the building in pieces.

One of the constant claims of the conspiracists is that the plane made only a 16ft wide hole, too small for a plane, but if you look at this picture, you can clearly see that the impact area is larger than the length of the nearby 18 wheeler trailers which are 48 feet long. So another theory exploded.

As for the videos, you can find several of them on WizBang.

Dave

(Tried to post this earlier but Akismet was having a nervous breakdown)

Dave, thanks for the links to the Pentagon tapes. You can definitely see the plane skidding across the lawn and into the building. I don't remember seeing that before: I think perhaps the first version of the video that was released had those frames omitted for some reason.

No, it's not a missile: would have been too small and fast to be seen by a camera from that distance away.

...

Apparently, the conspiracists' beloved 16-foot hole was actually only 12 feet and was made by the plane's nose landing gear, not the whole plane.

I don't think the idea that it's beyond the Bush administration's abilities is logical - you need to realign with the thought pattern of "all I know is I know nothing", clearing out any ideas of what highly dynamic systems (humans) would or would not do.. you couldn't possibly know who's capable of what.

If you do that you might start looking at the evidence objectively - and if you do, I think you'll see why so many believe it was an inside job..

Seriously look at it like a detective and start with ae911truth.org - they present some excellent talks about the funky actions of that day.

What they present is some bizarre and paranoid assumptions and misinterpretations of events which have much simpler and more logical explanations.

Ever heard of Occam's Razor? Clearly 911 fanatics haven't.

And IMO it's not convincing that government insiders were too incompetent to pull it off, but it IS absolutely true that there's no way the number of people involved could keep it secret for so long.

Dave

Just to throw a little kerosene on your bonfires... I've just been sent a bulletin through my myspace site where a chap called Alex Jones is predicting a new 9/11 soon.
I've never heard of him, he's a radio host and runs a site called prisonplanet with a "July 2001" video claiming to predict Bin Laden would be blamed for a Government attack. It's a conglomeration of conspiracy theories - Hunter S Thompson was murdered! Apparently, because he was working on a 9/11 story - Princess Diana's there too and Doctor David Kelly, the UK weapons inspector at the heart of the storm over the "dodgy dossier" on WMD in Iraq, and, who committed suicide (or according to the site was murdered). I make no comment but people may wish to have a look at it, it's a huge archive of related material about a 'globalist' conspiracy.

As to conspiracy being too fanciful to be true, who would ever have believed Watergate if it hadn't been proven true? There's always some idiot out there with a megalomaniac complex who believes they can do anything they want, & is willing to try.

Speaking of megalomaniac complexes, MR is getting worse in her various delusions of omniscience & sexual attractiveness, doncha think?

Nancy, Watergate consisted of Nixon sending a few guys to bug a hotel room.

That's a considerably easier conspiracy to execute than crashing two tanker planes into the WTC (claiming that they were passenger planes), rigging two of the biggest buildings in the world with explosives (without anyone noticing), firing a missile into the Pentagon (while somehow convincing hundreds of eyewitnesses that it was a plane), shooting down yet another plane, faking wreckage, disposing of four civilian planes that never crashed, murdering hundreds of passengers and hiding the bodies (or possibly not murdering them but convincing each and every one of them, and all their families and friends, to keep quiet forever)... and doing all of this without anyone finding out about it or blowing the whistle?

Come on.

years ago when I got my MA in philosophy of science I and my fellow students learned well that Occam's so called razor - the law parsimony - was actually false way more times than right. So when I see some sophomoric statement touting it, I know that person is probably, indeed, a sophomore.

Also when they use the hackneyed argument about sooo many people had to be involved,,, surrrrely somebody would talk... blah blah. Go study a little bit sophomore. Compartmental organization and hierarchy of organization structure means very few people would need to know the score. The rest are simply doing their jobs. That's why false flag ops usually occur within the context of on-going similar war games. How many were occurring on 9/11? Between 10 and 15 (depending upon your criteria) with some -exactly duplicating - the actual 'terrorist' (so called) attack. And what about the few who actually know? You really think they are going to come out and tell anything when it is so obvious against their interests (personal and financial) to so do. Only a cretin would believe that.

oh, and as an aside to #75 above... frankly, I've haven't seen so many untruths strung together with such apalling lack of syntax in quite a long time. You should be congratualted.

To me, what seems suspect is the consistent level of gross "incompetence" in this administration. Are they really this inept, or is it a ploy serving their own agenda? There were serious red flags prior to 9/11 that seem in retrospect to be almost(?) deliberately ignored. And look at all the sheeple who voted Bush in for another four years. Many of them have finally woken up and realized they've been had, despite their earlier skepticism.

Not to mention the debate over the validity of the first election of Bush. We have become so jaded and cynical that this kind of thing is just par for the course. Mass protests and outrage are so 60s....

Even if the conspiracy theorists are totally wrong, the fact that this debacle was allowed to happen by sins of omission and/or commission is what amazes me no end. How could our President continue to read "My Little Pony" while Rome burned?

Isn't it horrifying enough to realize that 9/11 was a perfect excuse for an invasion based on special interests rather than the facts?

Easy to say "oops--we didnt' see it coming"--but that in itself is what seems unbelievable to me--and very convenient. Bush doesn't give a hoot if the whole country sees him as a clown. In his mind, greed, as the Michael Douglas character said in Wall Street, is good.

See Medicin has an MA in philosophy of science, so he knows better than just to believe stuff he sees with his eyes. He didn't go to school and learn all them big words just so he could believe the same stuff as the rabble, even if it is blindingly obvious.

Of course, someone who is truly educated and thoughtful might reach the conclusion that knowing exactly who was on which planes and thousands of eyewitnesses is a more imperative reason to believe than is the desire of a faux-intellectual to congratulate himself on his supposedly superior mind.

Medicis is arguing from authority (his own) - the same fallacy that a certain Mexican resident uses constantly as she reminds us that she is more highly educated... than everyone else on the planet, apparently.

He apparently ditched school the day they mentioned that Occam's razor is a useful tool - if you know when and how to use it.

And if seamlessly covering up the supposed 9/11 conspiracy is not incredible to him, then Bush should have been able to proceed to frame Saddam for stashing WMDs without the entire world being able to see that he was full of it... no?

Elvira - haven't seen you in awhile. Howyadoin'?

Regarding #86, don't forget that just in the incredibly simple Watergate conspiracy it was only a matter of weeks before someone ratted them out and within a year numerous participants were eager to tell their stories.

Dave

Hey Nancy--greetings from da beautiful Bronx...

[Entire comment deleted]

As you are an anonymous commenter and had, until I deleted three of them, made a total of five comments to this site, I will assume you are unfamiliar with the requirements of this site. Among other things we require you to use just one identity and NEVER post under another person's name. Any repetition of this will lead to an immediate banning.

The Comments Editor

I really don't know why the author of this silly article decided to plagiarize debunked nonsense from several different 9/11 Denial sites.

It is really quite silly and transparent and shows the desperation of the 9/11 Denial Movement of not being able to come up with one single piece of physical evidence to support "controlled demolition."

The first mistake is for the author to regurgitate the canard that there is some mystical "official story." As if the fact that the evidence of the 9/11 attacks didn't come from hundreds of independent sources!

Listen, 9/11 Truth Kiddies, you're so sadly ignorant and have not a clue that you don't know what you don't know. It is really gotten pathetic listening to the EXACT SAME debunked nonsense for 6 years. Please go get yourselves an education in critical thinking so that we don't have to support you on welfare in the future, ok?

Get a life, for God's sake.

There was no Watergate conspiracy. It was a SNL skit originally submitted for publication in National Lampoon. It became an Off Broadway sensation with Howard Cosell playing trombone and Richard Nixon. The troops loved it when opened in the Bay of Pigs and it got rave reviews in the Gulf of Tonkin. The soundtrack went Platinum because of the screams of the dying and wounded from the self cleaning ovens.

geez a troll right off the bat, are you guys robotic?

- The company which had the contract for security in the WTC for the two years prior to the attacks was called Securacom.
CEO: Wirt Walker III, cousin of GW Bush. On his board of Directors sat one Marvin Bush, younger brother of GW Bush.
Securacom only existed for these two years.

- The 9-11 cover-up is incredibly sloppy and incompetent. That's why it's falling apart.

- Blow out the foundation, then do half a dozen or so bottom-up demolitions right on top of each other in one huge top-down sequence.

- America shot itself in the foot and cried wolf to start an illegal war because it's out of oil and now must live within its means or conquer the Middle East.
Meanwhile the gov'ts of Canada and Mexico are bought and fixed to consolidate access to their neighbours' reserves.
Soon there will be another 9-11 which they will blame on Hugo Chavez.

- The last seven years have been depressing in the extreme, as if one suddenly awoke the only adult in a world full of five-year-olds, all screaming,"because BECAUSE!"
How could anyone witness the bizarre mid-air self-pulverisation of the WTC and not think "WTF? Who the Hell do they think is gonna buy this?"
My God... it's a planet of apes.
And now: the spectacle of over-educated idiots decrying the obvious truth more and more loudly, trying to deny the onset of reality like Pincher Martin hallucinating his way around the grim spectre of Death.
The fact is that these chimpanzees, typing away in an almost infinite number, missed the boat to begin with and have since magnified their uselessness to society exponentially with each passing day.
They will all soon be out of work, perhaps even treading lava in the Lake of Sulphur, if Biblical prophecy is any guide.
"Revolt, you thick-skulled idiots!" - Fritz the Cat

Know other idiots like this? See sendahole.com.

Hey, Elvira, Glad to hear from you. Where ya been? Glad you're back. As you can read, nothing's new: same old same old slinging insults at each other. Jump right in!

Mr Hirschorn, plese provide links to the " many technical analyses" you refer to.

The company which had the contract for security in the WTC for the two years prior to the attacks was called Securacom.

Wrong. Securacoms contract ended in 1998.

CEO: Wirt Walker III, cousin of GW Bush. On his board of Directors sat one Marvin Bush, younger brother of GW Bush.

Wrong. Wirt Walker III is almost certainly no relation to Bush. Marvin Bush left the board in 2000.

Securacom only existed for these two years.

Wrong. It existed from at least 1995.

I would like to know when the author is going to write a Peer Reviewed paper on this subject, so I can at least see if he actually knows what he is referring to!

IT seems now like it is just a call to authority, to sell a book!

Wirt D. Walker III, a distant relative "in the Walker branch of the Bush family," according to a former colleague, and Mishal Yousef Saud Al Sabah of the Kuwaiti ruling family. Walker and Al Sabah also headed KuwAm, the backer of Stratesec and Aviation General.

Stratesec was founded as Securacom (formerly the engineering firm Burns and Roe Securacom). It was reinvented shortly after the first Gulf War, and thereafter marketed large security contracts to big clients, including the World Trade Center, Washington's Reagan National Airport and Dulles International Airport, various municipalities and airlines.

Marvin Bush and Wirt Walker Chairman and CEO of Stratesec from 1999 to the company's liquidation in 2003. Walker had served as a director of the company since 1987.

Securacom did security detailing for the World Trade Center. In 1992 Burns & Roe became Securacom: its management changed hands accompanying an infusion of capital from the ruling family of Kuwait, the Al Sabahs, two of whom joined its board.

At this time Marvin Bush also joined the board, clearly connecting family and Al Sabah interests and presumably part of a bigger package of Bush family rewards after the U.S. kicked Iraq out of Kuwait.

Marvin was a director of Securacom a.k.a. Stratesec from 1993 until fiscal year 2000.

Security of the buildings was not the issue.

They had just been leased by a new company a few days before 9/11--a company which literally raked in billions in insurance claims.

Follow the money and you will see why folks keep their mouths shut.

One of Mexico's well-forgotten presidents, Alvaro Obregon, said something on the order of "Nobody resists down a cannonblast of 50 thousands pesos". That was in 1920 in Mexico--you can figure out what it took to buy folks off in 2001.

But the real point is: AS USUAL YOU MORONS HAVE ALL THE CARS OFF ON THE SIDINGS AND NOTHING GOING DOWN THE MAIN TRACK.

(Hint: You don't have to prove how somebody pulled the trigger and how the bullet shot out of the barrel--the single bullet theory my ass--if it is patently obvious that only one person could have done it.)

Hey Nancy, great to see you. I've been busy with my new Bronx digs.

Maybe I've had a personality transplant in the interim, but Moonraven is almost starting to make a bit of sense to me. In any case, she certainly is the Don Rickles of the internet. Her insults are actually pretty funny.

You now have dated everyone with the Don Rickles comment. Is he still alive?

Elvira, get thee to a shrink - or a bar ;)

Nancy, I believe I indicated yesterday that YOU should be going to a shrink--one specialized in early childhood sexual abuse. If not, you will be right back up there to 500 pounds in less thgan 18 months.

Trust me on this one.

Elvira - are you still with the same guy?

MR - Actually, I don't believe you did mention a shrink, but sometimes very severely formerly obese patients do indeed benefit from it, yes. You're right on that. BTW, it was pretty astute of you to pick up on still carrying the fat around in my head. I give credit where credit is due on that one, even if it was meant as a dagger instead of a help. However....

You take every comment I make as a dagger because you have low self-esteem and believe you deserve to be picked on in order to replicate the bad feelings from the days of abuse.

When I tell someone that he or she needs to get to a good therapist, I am not just blowing it out my ass. It means I have seen what the problem is from the posts and am suggesting a solution.

If you prefer to court abuse and rejection on this site just because your employer is paying you to play in the internet you may get the satisfaction of ripping off him or her, but you won't get better.

For the many who have demonstrated considerable ignorance and closed-mindedness consider this:

Nationally Recognized Engineers and Scientist Call for New 9/11 Investigation

Over the last 8 weeks a world renowned scientist and three nationally recognized engineers have called for a new investigation of 9/11, yet none of these have been reported in the mainstream media.

Most recently, on Sept. 4, Joel S. Hirschhorn, Ph.D., who served for 12 years as a Senior Staff Member of the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment and later as Director of Environment, Energy and Natural Resources for the National Governors Association, called for a new investigation of 9/11, saying "First, let the technical truth emerge. Then, if necessary, cope with the inevitable political, conspiracy and other questions." Former Congressional Office of Technology Assessment Senior Staff Member Calls for New Investigation of 9/11

On Aug. 27, Lynn Margulis, Ph.D., member of the National Academy of Sciences and world renowned scientist, characterized the official account of 9/11 as "a fraud" and called for a new investigation, "I suggest that those of us aware and concerned demand that the glaringly erroneous official account of 9/11 be dismissed as a fraud and a new, thorough, and impartial investigation be undertaken." National Academy of Sciences Member Calls for New 9/11 Investigation

An Aug. 21 article reported that James Quintiere, Ph.D., former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division, called for an independent review of the World Trade Center Twin Tower collapse investigation. "I wish that there would be a peer review of this," he said, referring to the NIST investigation. "I think all the records that NIST has assembled should be archived. I would really like to see someone else take a look at what they've done; both structurally and from a fire point of view. ... I think the official conclusion that NIST arrived at is questionable." Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation

On July 16, J. Marx Ayres, former member of the National Institute of Sciences Building Safety Council and former member of the California Seismic Safety Commission called for a new investigation of 9/11, "Steven Jones' call for a serious investigation of the hypothesis that the WTC 7 and the Twin Towers were brought down, not just by impact damage and fire, but through the use of pre-positioned 'cutter-charges' must be the rallying cry for all building design experts to speak out." Former California Seismic Safety Commissioner Endorses 9/11 Truth Movement

Additionally, this week, Commander Ralph Kolstad, U.S. Navy 'Top Gun' pilot, questioned the official account of 9/11 and called for a new investigation. "When one starts using his own mind, and not what one was told, there is very little to believe in the official story." U.S. Navy 'Top Gun' Pilot Questions 9/11

The mainstream media has not covered any of these stories. Please help disseminate this critically important information.

9/11 conspiracy's are horrible and full of holes. You CT's talking about securacom have dropped to the lowest level of CT, using coincidences as if they were fact. you all realize that if there were bombs in the towers, then they would have had to place them exactly where the planes hit. but o no the towers colapsed fromb ombs, no evidence, maybe we should push aside the fact that the towers collapsed right where the plne hit. and the fact that putting explosives in a building means ripping off drywall and that the whole port authority would be in on it.

Have people heard of Operation Northwoods. People in our goverment drew up plans to kill americans and blam Cuba, as a pretext to invade. So if they thought about doing that kind of operation then, not hard to believe it could of happened in ragards to 911.

I don't know how much of what Hirschorn posts in #112 is just straight lies and distortion, but I do know that he totally misrepresents Quintiere, who does not believe there is a 9/11 conspiracy, but only thinks that the mechanisms by which the towers came down need to be further studied.

Dave

This is hilarious. One guy says: "Here's an experiment for u to try. Take a small steel rod and start bending it back and forth until it breaks. Did u use thermite or bombs to do it? No. Torsion pressure was enough to break it and to generate enough heat to soften it substantially. +hat do u think happens when all the potential energy of a 767 moving at over 300mph is transfered into some steel beams and then fire causes more and more loose material to start sliding down them. Friction and tortion are more than enough to soften the metal."

He's trying to use this to counter Dr. Hirschborn. Dude, are you serious? Do you know this guy has a PhD in material engineering? A master's and a bachelor's in metallurgy? Face it, you're in way over your head. You're bringing a pea shooter to a gunfight. If you can't figure it out on your own (they say only about 20% of the population, maybe less than that, are even capable of learning calculus), help is available.

or, if you prefer a musical

For the irrefragable proof (including videographic evidence of the moten metal and also chemical analysis) that large quantities of thermite analogs (such as thermate) were used in the destruction of the World Trade Center towers, scroll down to the bottom post on the below page: Documentation on Government-Staged Terrorism

Lester, how do you know that the guy with the metal rod doesn't have a degree in metallurgy or mechanical engineering as well? Did you ask him?

Admittedly, he did misspell 'torsion' once but then you misspelled Hirschhorn's name.

As for Hirschhorn, he does have great credentials. No question. But I'm sorry to say that he would not be the first example of someone with academic qualifications whose judgement was warped by political partisanship or just pure nuttiness.

Dave

As to Dave Nalle's comments - someone I believe is on the management side of this site - I am disappointed. "Personal attacks on are not allowed." Really. But explaining my views on the basis of my "nuttiness" is not a personal attack???? Dave, if you have the brain power, spend a few dozen hours seriously reading the many technical analyses on alternative theories of the WTC buildings collapse. Those scientists and engineers seeking the truth about the mechanism of collapse do not have to speak about a conspiracy (people like you have made others fearful of being called conspiracy nuts), but as I explained in my article: first must come the scientific/technical truth, and then everything else. BUT, if the two planes do NOT explain the collapse of THREE buildings, then logically there sure as hell has been a conspiracy. Here is a posted comment from Opednews that I found especially interesting and informative:

New 9/11 Investigation & Second American Revolution


The latter will need to take place first. But what will cause a "second American revolution"? Answer: anger. Enough angry Americans demanding the media cover the facts. What will anger Americans enough to make such demands? Answer: The complete and real truth of the media's direct involvement in the 9/11 attacks. When the American public learns that the orchestration of 9/11 goes down to the TV newscaster level, something is going to happen.

The best evidence of TV newscaster involvement is this 10 minute analysis video: 911 Octopus 8: Media Perps Unmasked. This amazing video reveals newscasters on different NYC TV stations reading from a script - the same script - on a developing story on live TV.

After our second American revolution we shall have our new 9/11 Investigation.



In the meantime, everyone should learn of the current legal proceedings already taking place:

Attorney Jerry Leaphart represents Dr Morgan Reynolds and Dr Judy Wood.

Dr Morgan Reynolds, the former Chief Economist of the US Department of Labor, filed a lawsuit against the private contractors hired by the government. Reynolds claims the contractors supplied bogus analysis of an aluminum airplane with a plastic nosecone gliding into a steel/concrete building. (See this animated gif for illustration.) The original Court document can be downloaded in PDF format on this page.

As Mr Leaphart explains in this interview, when a frivolous claim is filed with a governmental agency or a court, the governmental agency or court will respond stating the claim is frivolous.

But, as we see from Dr Reynolds site, the court did not dismiss the case. Instead, they unsealed it and Mr Leaphart is now notifying the Defendants in the case.

Dr Judy Wood, a former Professor of Mechanical Engineering from Clemson University, recently filed an appeal to the government for its refusal to retract their report on the WTC destruction. All documentation can be downloaded here. Dr Wood's hypothesis that the WTC was destroyed by directed energy weapons not only stands up to the evidence, but also ties the WTC destruction directly to the Military Industrial Complex.

According to trial attorney Jerry Leaphart, the directed energy weapon evidence is admissible in a Court of Law. Here's his quote from an interview with Kevin Barrett, and MP3 clip link:

"What I can tell you and the listeners, Kevin, is this. There is more admissible evidence associated with the theory that the World Trade Center was destroyed by directed energy weapons than there is admissible evidence for any single other theory out there that has been promulgated."



The directed energy weapon evidence is much more solid than thermite or explosives:

Thermite can be purchased on Ebay... hardly traceable to prove an inside job.

The perps plan to blame Al Qaeda for planting explosives. Here's a video of George W Bush doing exactly that!


by CB_Brooklyn (0 articles, 93 comments) on Saturday, September 8, 2007 at 5:34:00 AM

Dave ALWAYS posts personal attacks--at least he has since Sept. 21, 2006--when I first visited this site and he immediately posted personal attacks against me.

[Edited]

As to Dave Nalle's comments - someone I believe is on the management side of this site - I am disappointed. "Personal attacks on are not allowed." Really. But explaining my views on the basis of my "nuttiness" is not a personal attack????

Not really, no. It's actually rather nicer than some of the other explanations.

When someone with your credentials and academic training holds a belief so completely at odds with obvious reality and every element of logic, it is irrational and yes, nutty.

Dave, if you have the brain power, spend a few dozen hours seriously reading the many technical analyses on alternative theories of the WTC buildings collapse. Those scientists and engineers seeking the truth about the mechanism of collapse do not have to speak about a conspiracy (people like you have made others fearful of being called conspiracy nuts), but as I explained in my article: first must come the scientific/technical truth, and then everything else.

I have read scores of studies and absorbed as much as I can understand. As I pointed out in my last comment, there are many different possible theories about the exact mechanism of how the towers came down. However, what hundreds of scientists who have actually studied the wreckage and have degrees as impressive as yours, seem to agree on is that while the exact reasons why the towers collapsed as they did have not been fully identified, all of the actual evidence indicates that the planes hitting the towers was the primary cause of the collapse.

Evidence exists to support a variety of theories on the collapse of the towers and how it happened. None of that evidence supports a conspiracy or controlled demolition.

BUT, if the two planes do NOT explain the collapse of THREE buildings, then logically there sure as hell has been a conspiracy.

The absence of a definitive proof of the mechanism of collapse is NOT the same as proof of a conspiracy. Did you not take some sort of course in logic in your academic career? That there are still questions about the collapse does not in any way validate wild alternative theories which don't have real evidence to back them up.

And BTW, I did some more research on the torsion business mentioned earlier, and although the example was inept, there does seem to be substantial evidence that a major factor of the collapse was not heat from the fire, but torsion causing the bolts holding together sections of the supporting columns to snap, a fact for which there is ample physical evidence and some very good computer modeling done by a Japanese study group.

The best evidence of TV newscaster involvement is this 10 minute analysis video: 911 Octopus 8: Media Perps Unmasked. This amazing video reveals newscasters on different NYC TV stations reading from a script - the same script - on a developing story on live TV.

This is a GREAT example of the irrational credulity which you and the other conspiracy believers exhibit. It's like you have a complete disconnect from reality or a lack of basic awareness of how the world works, or any common sense for that matter. Local TV newscasters largely report news by essentially repeating public statements and official reports, especially when dealing with emergent news. So FEMA or the mayor's office or the FDNY sends out a fax and then all the stations basically read it over the air, and that becomes the basis for another silly conspiracy theory that the media is 'reading from a script'.

This kind of example is what makes people like me skeptical. It's like you have no rational discrimination whatsoever.


Dr Wood's hypothesis that the WTC was destroyed by directed energy weapons not only stands up to the evidence, but also ties the WTC destruction directly to the Military Industrial Complex.

Are you SERIOUS? The WTC was destroyed by 'death rays'? This is actually something I'm fairly familiar with. I assume this is part of the greater conspiracy theory that the government launched CPBW platforms into space during the Reagan administration? There's no evidence to support that it ever happened, plus for the conspiracy to actually work you have to assume the cooperation of both the old Soviet Union government AND the current Russian government who monitor orbital space SPECIFICALLY looking for weapons platforms.

Man, stick to thermite, at least it's halfway believable and there's even some data you can bogus up into evidence since the building materials of the towers included all the chemical elements necessary to make thermite.

Dave

Laugh of the day: Dave Nalle asking SOMEONE ELSE if he took a logic course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as we are being logical and honest, Dave Nalle has all the appearances of a truly closed-minded, ignorant, nasty and prejudiced a-hole -- in fact, about the worst that I have seen on the Internet. That I post materials that others have said does not, logically, mean that I embrace them. I believe in examining all kinds of information. Now he also acuses me of lacking common sense as well as nuttiness. Well Dave I know nothing about your background except what I have seen here and you have nothing to be proud of. I have observed incredible evils perpetrated by the federal government, and how anyone can watch all the crap done by the Bush administration and not consider the plausibility of a massive conspiracy about 9/11 is beyond me. Maybe all your shameful behavior can be explained by your being a Republican. But for tecord, what I and others stress is the need for a new investigation on the cause of the collapse of the three WTC buildings -- and feel free to let everyone wasting their time on this site know about your explanation for the destruction of building no.7.

Joel. I don't see anyone here being nearly as nasty to you as you deserve. You deliberately spread propaganda and disinformation which supports a destructive and divisive neoanarchist agenda. That people react to you negatively should be no surprise. That you are even allowed to post your garbage on this otherwise pretty decent site surprises me.

Oh and sorry about my earlier example being simplistic. The point is still valid that a huge jet hitting a building at hundreds of miles an hour causes huge structural stress.

BTW I think Doug Hunter hit the nail on the head in no. 10. Belief in these conspiracies satisfies some deep feeling of intellectual inadequacy in the believers.

Why is Dr. Hirschorn so defensive on this issue? It looks like Nalle just tried to engage him in reasonable if challenging discussion. I'd be interested to hear more about his experiences as a government worker which made him so paranoid. IF he's willing to come forward maybe some of the 911 conspirators will follow his lead and turn against their masters. After all, out of the hundreds who must have been involved surely a few have a conscience.

TomT

The F.B.I. says that they have insufficient evidence linking Bin Laden to the attacks to put him on a wanted poster. The also say that the evidence linking Israel's Intel service, MOSSAD, is "classified."

Several foreign intel officials say the evidence points conclusively to a MOSSAD operation, using Muslim hired guns as patsies. Certainly it is obvious that the Koran in the white van was placed for political purposes, by those who wanted the U.S. at war with the Muslim world.

In Oct. 2001, two terrorist tried to enter the Parliament Building in Mexico with c-4 Explosives, but were caught. CNN mentioned a breaking story, but dropped it. Turns out the two terrorists were MOSSAD!

As much as I would like to believe in the 911 conspiracy theory, I have to say it is utter BS. It is possible that people in the administration knew about the attacks and did nothing because they knew afterwards the American public could be manipulated so well.

Bingo, Daryl. A conspiracy to take advantage of the situation is entirely believable. A conspiracy to cause the situation involves too many variables and too many people to ever be undertaken at all much less pulled off.

Dave

#23 - Reason has not work. Name calling is the next best thing. And their mother's wear construction boots - to boot.

#7 and #10 - Yes. Yes indeed. A+

Matt, or if we're to follow (oh, I dunno, let's say Moonraven), there is no reason to stop at Nixon. The Founding Fathers set the chain of events for 9/11 posthumously. America is pure evil - as pure as tupelo honey. Idiot. Duh.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm packing for British Columbia. Gonna bag me Big Foot.

As long as we are being logical and honest, Dave Nalle has all the appearances of a truly closed-minded, ignorant, nasty and prejudiced a-hole -- in fact, about the worst that I have seen on the Internet.

So anyone who doesn't roll over and accept a ludicrous conspiracy theory is an asshole in your view?

Sorry, Joel. I believe in standing up for the truth, and what you're pushing here just doesn't ring right.

Look, I'm with you for a further investigation of 9/11, especially on an engineering/scientific basis. I'd also like better answers on the causes of the collapse, because I'd hate to see it happen again.

But what I don't want to see is a partisan witchhunt or a lot more federal dollars spent on it. A non-partisan, independent and privately funded investigation sounds good, though.

My problem with you, in specific, promoting the conspiracy theories, is that I'm pretty well convinced from your other writing that your purpose in doing it is NOT honest inquiry, but using the issue and the gullibility of the believers to advance your political agenda. That makes you the equivalent in many ways of those who might launch the kind of conspiracy you're so concerned about.

That I post materials that others have said does not, logically, mean that I embrace them.

Then you ought to say that when you post the materials with no quotes or a link or anything. You sure made it look like you shared those beliefs.

I believe in examining all kinds of information. Now he also acuses me of lacking common sense as well as nuttiness. Well Dave I know nothing about your background except what I have seen here and you have nothing to be proud of.

What the hell does pride have to do with it? This isn't about egos, it's about fearmongering and abuse of the truth for political gain.

I have observed incredible evils perpetrated by the federal government, and how anyone can watch all the crap done by the Bush administration and not consider the plausibility of a massive conspiracy about 9/11 is beyond me.

It helps not to start from a position of irrational hatred of the Bush administration. Looked at more objectively you get responses more like those on this thread who find it inconceivable that such blunderers could pull such a thing off.

Maybe all your shameful behavior can be explained by your being a Republican.

That would be the shameful behavior of challenging you on your illogic? Oddly, I'm not at all ashamed. But then I'm not the kind of person who assumes that someone is shameful becuase of some political label attached to them.

But for tecord, what I and others stress is the need for a new investigation on the cause of the collapse of the three WTC buildings

As I said above, I'm not necessarily against such an investigation. Of course dozens of indepnedent groups have already been doing investigations for all the RIGHT reasons, like future safety concerns. Do their efforts not satisfy you because they aren't looking for conspiracies?

and feel free to let everyone wasting their time on this site know about your explanation for the destruction of building no.7.

I've seen the photos of the damage done to the building from debris and from what appears to have been one of the pylons plunging straight through it. I find the idea that it collapsed from that damage fairly believable, and it seemed to satisfy investigators. On the other hand, demolition does make sense in that one case. They would have had to demolish it for safety reasons given the level of damage anyway. The problem is that there's zero evidence that charges were planted or triggered or that there was any kind of explosion in bldg 7. In fact, the only evidence for the demolition of the building is a misunderstanding of the word 'pull' in that context.

Dave

"Oddly, I'm not at all ashamed."
- Dave Nalle

Some people have no shame.
(MCH)

Hi Nancy--yep, with the same guy!

Isn't it nice that one can get free psych screening services on this site from MR?

A maxim you prove again and again, Emmy.

Dave

Mr Hirschhorn,

In your post #119, you mentioned "many technical analyses" again. I request again that you name these analyses and, where possible, provide a link.

Thank you.

To CBW: in my article there is a link to the group I joined; on that site and the other sites it links to you can track many technical analyses.

To the others insulting me and my work: it has become clear to me that the politics part of this site is being managed by Nalle - a self-righteous right-winger and that is a mistake by this site; no such political editor should be so prejudiced and partisan. The only reason I will continue to submit articles is that there are a few intelligent people, such as medicis, nancy, Theodore Trout, that can appreciate my work; for the others that find my writings repulsive - don't read them, or better yet, read them and get pissed off. But after all this back and forth I suspect that Nalle will keep me off this site; he clearly does not like opposing thought. And anyone with real intelligence who practices logical reasoning would not have to resort to personal attacks. By the way, my only political agenda is this: help restore American democracy, reduce the stranglehold on our political system by the Democraps and Republicrooks, and get the nation's first Article V convention.

"But after all this back and forth I suspect that Nalle will keep me off this site; he clearly does not like opposing thought."

Nalle doesn't have the power to keep you or anyone else off this site. That power belongs only to the owner, Mr. Eric Olsen, whose policy is not to keep anyone off the site simply because of their views.

So, no matter how extreme or wacky your opinions, you can be secure in the knowledge that you'll be allowed to publish them and amuse the rest of us.

im going to go with dave nalle on this one, u nuts are constantly insulting him because he doesn't beleive thousands of people and the U.S. government orchestrated 9/11. there are answers out there, look beyond the conspiracy sites. and guys, don't isten to joel.

In the interest of contributing to future architectural and contraction know-how, increasing the general knowledge base of the public, enhancing trust in our governmental structure, and strengthening our security, there should be a thorough investigation of how the towers collapsed in such a way, as if they imploded.

I was intrigued by the comprehensive report and well illustrated explanation which came very soon after the tragedy. I was perplexed and "impressed?" by the quick conclusion as to what had taken place structurally, all based on simulations without the benefit of physical and "forensic" evidence.

there should be a thorough investigation of how the towers collapsed in such a way, as if they imploded.

Zedd, they didn't collapse in a way as if they imploded. Debris hit buildings miles away and large amounts fell well outside the safety radius you would have in a controlled demolition. Check out some of the photos of surrounding buildings after the incident some time. Not pretty.

dave

Great article Joel. I myself was convinced by the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth websites, particularly Richard Gage's presentation at the University of Manitoba. Support for the demolition theory is growing!

#136 - I don't understand. I have to wait until Dave says so.

And Dave, can you restore some oxygen to my house? I can't seem to wake me wife.

Dave? Are you serious? "In fact, the only evidence for the demolition of the building is a misunderstanding of the word 'pull' in that context." You've not seen the WTC 7 collapse videos? I mean, isn't that 'evidence'? Especially considering no steel framed skyscraper has ever, before or since, collapsed in that manner unless it was a controlled demolition? You know, kind of like, if it looks like an orange...or, a picture is worth a thousand words. At 30FPS, 6.9 seconds, you've got yourself 207 thousand words.

Also, how do