Wonderful article. I laughed all the way through it. My ex-husband became a vegan while we were still married, which explains a lot about why he's my ex-husband. Most of my friends are now vegan; there are only about three of us carnivores left, standing out in the cold, clutching our hamburgers, our glorious buttocks poured snugly into our jeans. Levis were built for meat-eaters - vegans may as well wear those scratchy hemp pajama bottoms. And thank the gods we never see vegans in leather pants - what a travesty that would be.

Zinc-deficiency. I never knew that, but explains oh so much about my vegan friends (bless'em). I suppose I'll start slipping zinc-mickeys into their carrot-smoothies.

Now if you could just point me in the direction of where these men o'carcasses hang out....

Silly left wing womenfolk sometimes seem to want their men to be "evolved" beyond being masculine, even masculine enough to be effective defenders. Then there are these gals you're writing about here what don't want men to eat like alpha males on the top of the food chain.

Indeed, it's almost as if they wanted to both literally and figuratively have vegetables for lovers. This of course brings us to Frank Zappa.
Call any vegetable, call it by name
Call any vegetable and the chances are good
Ah, that the vegetable will respond to yo-ou!

This blog doesn't understand the dynamics of veganism. So there was one person who was terrible to the omnivores around her. Vegans are not all like that. She must have been pretty new at veganism if she was trying to convert. Most vegans these days don't try to convert outright because we all know that it's a waste of breath on ignorant people.

Alicia Silverstone may have been wearing a t-shirt with a carnivorous cheetah on it. But vegans don't have a problem with an animal killing because it has to. The big thing here is that humans don't have to. People almost always get their meat from the supermarket. I know I would still eat meat and dairy if I knew the animals were killed immediately. I don't have a problem with the animals being killed but, instead, the suffering they endure during their dark lives.

It's interesting to think that the only reason people don't go veg/vegan is because their tastebuds are addicted.

So, a link to the Daily Mail article would be awesome.

Link added, Suss. Go read.

I wonder if I'll ever read a blog/op-ed concerning veganism (other than those written by vegans themselves) that doesn't include the usual tiresome "skinny and sickly", "whiny", and "eco-extremist" stereotrypes. Probably not.

I shouldn't even get started on the whole "eating flesh is manly" ridiculousness. Really? I though sticking to your principles was. Oh well.

Oh, and add to this the highly dubious nutritional advice. Sources, please? Sorry, but I see nothing but weak arguments, cheap shots, and sterotypes.

You are sorely mistaken in assuming that vegans all are skinny and sickly - I'm have a healthier (and vastly more muscular) physique than any of my lard ass friends. If you think that meat is the only (or even the best) source of protein, you have been seriously misled. (And, BTW, those omega-3s you refer to don't come from fish, but from the algae they live off, so I go directly to the source, and cut out the middleman.)

Is veganism healthier than vegetarianism? Probably not. But it's not appreciably worse either as long as you actually take care of yourself (rather than living on the overboiled lentils and tofu that go with the sandal-wearing-beardie-weirdy stereotype of veganism), and both are a far cry better for you than a carnivorous diet.

Do I only date vegans? I'd like too, but sadly, the misconceptions you outline above have made such a choice impossible. The few vegan women I meet are invariably clueless-but-opinionated new agers, into raw food and homeopathic medicine: in other words, diametrically opposed to the creed of 'no bullshit/no hypocrisy' that made me a vegan in the first place.

That is, except for the girls who stick around a while: long enough for me to slowly seduce them to the green side of the dish, with delicious cooking and the odd quiet word about the existential need for kindness to other creatures. (The aforementioned pecs undoubtedly play a part too :> Would this be a good time to point out that vegans taste much better, and have much fewer problems with erectile dysfunction? Well, there you go.)

Ahh. Happy days.

"I would not want to be intimate with someone whose body is literally made up from the bodies of animals who have died for their sustenance," she said."

Good news, we don't want to fuck you either.

""When you are vegan or vegetarian, you are very aware that when people eat a meaty diet, they are kind of a graveyard for animals," she said."

All right, see, there's this great thing the human body has called the excretory system.

...Standing out in the cold, clutching our hamburgers, our glorious buttocks poured snugly into our jeans...

LOL Che! Loves eet. ;)

Will, the books I posted are books I own and have read. They are full of scientific information that will satisfy your appetite, which is why I included them.

It is a paradigm shift, esp. if you are a vegan, but believe me, I care about men and so the interest in their health is genuine. I have one at home, and his health and well being is paramount to me.

And sorry if you don't like the reflection on vegan men. It's true and it's the result of their nutritionally impoverished diet. Sadly, penis birth defects in children and poor sperm counts are also linked to phyto-estrogens from plastics, pestisides - and the enormous amounts of soy tucked into the American diet.

This would go especially for vegans, who rely on such foods exclusively. If you read about how they process the soy mulch for 'food' you would realize that you have been brainwashed to put the pain of farm animals ahead of your life and the children you sire or give birth to.

Eating meat is not just about taste, as Kyle suggested. Leopards have the good sense to eat what leopards traditionally eat. Humans have the ability to go off on an intellectual tangent and eat something for 'philosophical reasons' rather than best survival of themselves and their offspring. We are obviously more irrational than leopards, but then I have said, 'We can only aspire to be as cool as cats'. ;)

I suggest reading The Testosterone Advantage and The Mood Cure. Leopards do not worry about the 'pain of their food'. Don't let moral narcissism blind you to the truth about what a body/brain looks like/functions like on the traditional human diet versus on a nouveau vegan diet.

Although, this kind of talk may help you score with a vegansexual girl. ;)

Here's to having muscles and brains. The body needs the building materials it requires. All the vegan philosophical arguments aside, their bodies, or dearth of them, speak for themselves.

You might also want to check out www.westonaprice.org. As I say, it's a paradigm shift, back to what made humans a healthy and successful species. Americans have been being brainwashed by food industry interests for a long time now, since the late 1950's when post WWII tons of soy was being farmed. It was sold to intellectuals, like you. Very well I might say.

I just read an amusing article that talked about how the consumer demand for lean meats and low fat diets has led pig farmers to feed saturated fats to pigs in order to make them lean (often coconut oil, which stimulate thyroid and liver conversion of T4 to the active T3.)

They used to feed them vegetable oils, esp. corn and soy oils to fatten them up! A fat pig full of lard was a valuable market commodity. People traditionally cooked with lard.

Shocking I know. I still can't wrap my brain around that one. Old paradigms and bugaboos die hard. I cook with olive oil, butter, and sometimes coconut oil from Tropical Traditions.

Ironically, unless you are an olive oil fiend, (Extra Virgin, like Britney Spears) ;) most Americans buy vegetable oils for salad, cooking and baking needs. These include soy, corn, safflower oils and canola oils. The polyunsaturates, are very unstable molecularly unless stabilized by hydrogenation, at which point you have...

'I can't believe it's not butter'.

Me neither. Hydrogenated fats are Trans fats. Deadly! They are a type of polymer, as in plastic.

It's pure black humor obviously, but the results are - thin pigs, and fat people. Not to mention high cancer/diabetes/heart disease/depression.

School lunches for US kids can now contain high amounts of soy. This gives high levels of phyto-estrogens to growing kids which reeks havoc on their health and endocrine systems. Notice the obesity epidemic in kids? It's not just the sugar drinks (touted as low-fat) it's the estrogenic and thyroid suppressing effects of soy that is in many foods often listed as 'vegetable protein'.

Lads, next time you think of eating a vege-burger or some other soy-fest; before you congratulate yourself on your moral ascendancy, realize that you are taking the equivalent of an estrogen birth control pill.

Mathew Suss... LOL! ;))

"This would go especially for vegans, who rely on such foods exclusively. If you read about how they process the soy mulch for 'food' you would realize that you have been brainwashed to put the pain of farm animals ahead of your life and the children you sire or give birth to."

Who said anything about soy? You are still making assumptions about what Vegan is and is not.

For myself, I eat tofu about as often as say, chinese food. Putting aside the fact that legumes, grains and other staples of the vegan diet easily allow one to exceed the recommended protein intake There are plenty of other dedicated for acquiring protein. I eat a lot of rice protein. I make my own Seitan in a bread machine.

Oh yes, and you mentioned that other hot button issue - vegan children. Too bad that studies so far have found them more intelligent than their carnivorous peers (most likely, I would assume, due to their enlightened parents than their diet. However, they are obviously not suffering from the lack of meat).

Oh yes, and I do barely cook with anything but olive oil. Why ever not?

Ashtoreth, thanks for the links and info, I'm genuinely interested. I think the verdict is still out on soy, because there's a lot of conflicting info. But in any case I should point out that many vegans don't really consume very much soy at all. I know more than a few that HATE tofu.

At least we agree on one thing- olive oil (which is basically the only oil I cook ANYTHING with)

I should point out that Leopards don't practice fatory farming. Leopards can also catch their prey on "foot" and kill it and eat it with their teth and claws. They also don't get sick from eating it raw or even slightly decomposed. Interesting, huh?

And... so, because a leopard doesn't think about the ethics of eating, a human shouldn't? I thought we were SO much better than other animals...

You might be interested to hear Carl Lewis' dicusion on his veganism at the time of record-setting performances, if we're talking health.

And lastly, I think it's funny that most omnivores couldn't stomach a trip to a cattle butcher or battery hen egg facility. Really, who exactly is the squeamish one?

"And... so, because a leopard doesn't think about the ethics of eating, a human shouldn't? I thought we were SO much better than other animals..."

There's also the other side of this coin. Why shouldn't we eat other people, if we can catch them and make them breed in a factory for us?

I think I could go with that - as long as I got to pick the people j/k

Vegans don't have to be unhealthy. Any vegan who hisses "meat is murder" is probably just a retard, so you can't expect them to eat a balanced diet.

Che if you saw my ass in leather pants (I have lots of pics) you'd change your tune.

Walter, your comment reminded me of a work by the writer Jonathan Swift.

In the spirit of pure black humor, I present, A Modest Proposal.

"This blog doesn't understand the dynamics of veganism. So there was one person who was terrible to the omnivores around her. Vegans are not all like that. She must have been pretty new at veganism if she was trying to convert. Most vegans these days don't try to convert outright because we all know that it's a waste of breath on ignorant people."

It's annoying that a few misguided people have to reflect so poorly on the rest of us. :(

The only way I try to "convert" anybody is by having othem over for dinner, which I do a LOT. I get NO complaints (and many requests for seconds) about my dishes, and there are generally no veggie burgers or tofu in sight. I was rather proud when a had a rather health conscious meat-eating friend over for dinner last night and he said "whoa, do you always eat this well?". I'd considered it a pretty basic meal!

I made the transition from vegetarian to vegan a few months ago, and I certainly healther than ever. (I have vegan friends who run marathons) And I certainly feel good about my decision. I sing too, (or try to!) and I can't swear it's related, but I've had a noticeably better voice since axing the dairy. Nice side benefit!

Walter, Rice and Seiten (gluey darned stuff made from wheat gluten) does not give you the nutritional profile of a steak (ideally, a grass fed steak) which would have the healthiest fats most complete bio-available amino acids, heme iron (non in veg. sources) and bio available Zinc.

You need zinc to make testosterone, which with so many environmental estrogenic compounds from plastics, to pthalates in grooming products is something to be taken seriously.

Also, for the many people who are gluten intolerant, Seiten is not an option, it is a poison.

There have always been farms. Unless you are talking about the cavemen LOL. This is part of how people survived in a community, bartering or trading. Civilization grew with the rise of farming/herding/cultivation of wine and olive oil.

It takes about 11 years for an olive tree to produce fruit for cultivation, so this is a sign to archeologists/anthropologists of a settled people, esp in the Mediteranean.

Interestingly, European skeletons of more meat eating people were taller. The move to more grain/pulse based diets produced shorter skeletons. Those knights in shining armor were really tiny!

I was recently read (Slate, I think) that Americans have been surpassed as the world's tallest people. Now the Europeans are taller than us. Could our adoption of radically different foods and dietary concepts from European traditional foods and foods that had been mainstays of earlier Americans have something to do with it, I wonder? Interesting to ponder...

Certainly, the physical and resulting psycho-social/psycho-sexual ramifications of earlier puberties is hitting our society. The body is ready but the brain/emotions/social situation is not. This is due to exposure to large amounts of estrogens in the environment and diet, compared to even 100 years ago.

*singin* "ohhh hereshe comes..." ;)

Hi doll! Welcome. :)

Oh God! Another idiot lifestyle article by some mainstream chick with mainstream tastes... literally. Can't all you meateaters just die of heart attacks already???

Tch-tch-tch...

What did I say about vegan men reminding me of andropausal men?

*pokes carefully with stick*

Hmmmm..... Nervous and aggressive, like a blue centipede. Cranky and crotchety. Low testosterone, low essential fatty acids.

Could it be your diet?

Me thinks so. ;)

As for saturated fats and heart attacks, may I suggest reading 'The Cholesterol Myths - Exposing The Fallacy That Saturated Fat and Cholesterol Cause Heart Disease' by Uffe Ravnskov, MD. PhD.

Some notes from the back cover:

"Dr. Ravnkov has done a magnificent service with a scholarly book that gathers a vast body of impressive evidence and will surprise many with the true facts from research studies..."

Ray H. Rosenman MD Former Director of Cardiovascular Research ,SRI

"But What about heart disease?" This is the response of many Americans when advised to consume the foods of their ancestors, foods like butter, whole milk, eggs, and meat. Fear of saturated fat and cholesterol has put a solid brick wall between the consumer and satisfying nutritious food - and filled the coffers of the food processing industry.

Sally Fallon
Author of Nourishing Traditions

It is soy processed and not and polyunsaturated vegetable oils both liquid and hydrogenated, which are the root of America's problems with heart disease, and mood disorders. Instead of mirroring the temperament of a blue centipede, check out some of those books I suggested on the Amazon links.

Also cranky one,

What is 'mainstream' is the vegetarian, eco-etho-pathology; low fat; terror of meat, eggs, and butter.

What I am suggesting requires putting on one's thinking cap (Instead of wandering around brainwashed chanting 'IM-HO-TEP IM-HO-TEP')and reading some things other than what the mainstream wants to tell... sell you.

I am pretty close to a vegetan, a non-political vegan. There are non-militant vegans out there.

Also, about omnivore and vegan nutrition. It's not as simple as how you have described it. Food that is taken in does not automatically become building blocks for the human system. Using your argument would mean vegans do not produce cholesterol.

All I got out of this was another non-vegan attacking vegans' choice in life. Just respect those choices.

I was just going to say that Ashtoreth is precariously close to becoming my favorite writer here, but after reading some of these comments, I have to retract that. The fact that she can rankle so many overly sensitive hairs and still maintain her demeanor makes her, hand down, a writer to be read on a regular basis..

Keep up the good work, Ashtoreth!

Patriotic Vegans of Australia

It's uncomfortable, even scary, to have your value system questioned. Maybe it's because we dont want to believe we could have been fooled.Or wrong in front of others.

So Ashtoreth has offered us some food for thought, and made us laugh to boot!! Yay!!

Very funny and very true! I too live in Los Angeles and see the vegan kids everywhere. I can always pick them out based on the grey skin tone.

I am a lacto vegetarian...who owns and runs an artspace/cafe featuring same in Baguio City.

I DO also see humor in what you are saying...don't be affected by the veggie attack you seem to be under.

Jim @ BLISS

Jim, you are a peach -

with creme fraiche on top. :)

I am not offended by the veggies at all, even the crabby ones. I enjoy a spirited debate. You are chivalrous to come to my defense.

As my husband and I were discussing (while polishing off some shrimp sauteed in olive oil, doused with spices and steamed to finish), in countries like Southern India where meat is not only scarce, but impracticable due to potential for spoilage, lacto vegetarianism makes sense with the added uses of vegetable protiens from cooked dhal and rice.

If you kill the cow in this case where heat and scarcity is the rule, you kill off a source of vital nourishment for a family or community in the form of fresh whole milk, butter, ghee, and various forms of cheeses. This gives important bio-amino acids, and saturated fats. Milk protein is best absorbed as are its minerals, in its whole form, with the fat.

That is how the Hindus have survived for many hundreds of years. They would not even contemplate giving up the animal proteins they get from cow milk products. The same could be said of peoples who herded goats or sheep.

This kind of lacto-vegetarianism is natural for such areas. Still, it is not the ideal, and the Vedic Indian texts advocate meats (though not obviously sacred cow - way to keep people from killing the cows LOL).

In many cultures there would be 'feast days' when an animal (goat/sheep etc.) would be killed and enjoyed by the people. This was something prized, not passed up. These were holidays, holy-days.

The Chinese treasure meat if they can get it. They often could not. Vegetarianism evolved to help starving people. There is no reason to do that in a Northern Hemisphere country where meat was traditionally raised and eaten by European settlers who also were meat eaters. Even Buddhist monks who eschew meat, were allowed to eat meat if weak from illness and needing to build up their strength.

A vegetarian who appreciates the animal proteins of milk products and even fish is a far cry from the extreme vegans.

Another funny LA-Vegan-culture story... ;)

I had been in a very popular vegan restaurant, putting on my Margaret Mead glasses and investigating a strange culture. My beefy (weight-lifting)husband, who is one step removed from a lion, went with me unwillingly and declared he was earning major brownie-karma points for going along.

He ordered a vegan 'impressionist sandwich' of a Reuben made from Tempeh. While he examined his lunch like it was contemporary art, I naively asked our waiter for some honey for my tea.

"We do not serve honey!" he said, looking disdainfully down his nose.

I was confused. "Why not?"

"Because it enslaves the bees." he replied, irritated at what he imagined should have been obvious. This is deranged. Honey has been prized since pre-biblical days.

I was floored.

To make things worse, my husband muttered under his breath, "Something is missing here...

The waiter turned.

Husband deadpans, "I know. It's the meat!"

If looks could kill. ;))

You'll be a lot healthier in mind and body as a lacto-vegetarian than as a full-on veggie. It becomes a kind of philosophical limbo I find... how extreme can you go?

Still, these are smart people to begin with. (They wouldn't be reading and sparring on BlogCritics otherwise.) ;) Vegans are attracted to veganism intellectually, and then it becomes a limbo-ing addiction. Unfortunately, the harm it does to the body is sometimes hard to repair.

That book on Traditional foods and the Weston Price Site www.westonaprice.com bear looking at. People were healthier, thinner, had less depression, etc. before the food industry/government started promoting what are now mainstream misinformations.

Perhaps the best thing to take from being a vegan is an appreciation of vegetables and vegetable dishes from different cultures, but really, scientifically, this is not enough.

Do you have a website for you art/cafe? I remember such charming places from when I lived in Houston. Very eclectic spirited places. Sounds like the owner is too.

Also, where is Baguio City?

You'll be a lot healthier in mind and body as a lacto-vegetarian than as a full-on veggie. It becomes a kind of philosophical limbo I find... how extreme can you go?

I dunno, my I switched from an ovo-lacto vegetarian to vegan around two months ago and I've felt much healthier and energetic. Maybe because since switching I've been a lot more careful to eat well. Who knows? If I drop dead I'll let you know. Oh, wait, no I won't.

As for honey, I don't find it that extreme. If you don't use animals for food, then you don't use animals for food. I don't really see why bees should get shafted just 'cos they're all... um... bee-like.

I dunno, I just don't find it extreme. I love food, I cook like crazy, I feel great, and I don't really feel like I'm depriving myself.

Hi Will,

I should confess, I've experimented with many kinds of vegetarianism in my life, including veganism at one point. I became extremely thin (I was happy at the time LOL) but I also developed serious problems, weakened immune system, asthma, panic attacks, multiple chemical sensitivities - and an acoustic neuroma, a type of intracranial brain tumor which cost me the hearing/balance nerve on my left side.

I am still beautiful, thank god/dess due to the skill of my surgeons. To look at me, you would not know that I've had brain surgery, nor that I am something of a cyborg with titanium in my head.

Which officially makes me a metal-head.

At the time that I was a vegetarian/vegan I was very intellectually engaged and thought I was doing all the right things. It cost me my health, and almost cost me my life. It was in the fight and journey to getting back my health that I learned and applied the principles I've outlined.

I always thought I was healthy. I was deluded. There is a huge difference in the way my body is formed/muscled now than before. My asthma is in remission and I am just generally stronger. Rare red meat became one of my medicines. Ditto butter, along with my natural use of olive oil.

One of the first books I got (when my binocular vision returned LOL as that is part of what you lose with your vestibular sense, as well as not being able to walk, just fall on the floor) was 'The Mood Cure' for information on feeding the brain.

The Omega 3 fatty acids from Nordic Naturals were prescribed by one of my doctors and definitely helped with brain speed and memory. My diet did not provide the quality of proteins and fats for health. Now, it does.

As for the honey, why don't you Google the health principles of honey, bee pollen, propolis, etc. Man and bee go back to almost pre-historic times. Bee keepers tend to be extremely healthy and long lived. They studied them in Russia.

The peasant bee keepers were living into their late 90's or centarians, functioning, tending bees and hiking around. Their customers who they'd sold the 'best' honey too, did not live as long. Turned out the bee keepers kept the 'lesser' honey at the bottom of the barrel and the sludge, the bee pollen, for themselves and their families. These are marvel foods.

In New Zealand they do studies on their bush honey, which is tremendously healing. They grade it for certain properties. They even use it on burns so that the bandages do not rip up the delicate new skin when being changed.

In Ancient Egypt, Hebrew, Greek societies, Honey and bee products were prized. The dead on Greek ships were preserved in vats of honey for storage until they returned home. Wounds were dressed with honey for its anti-bacterial properties, to prevent gangrene and loss of limbs/death.

The American Indians have a tradition of using honey and especially the propolis which is anti-bacterial, keeping the bees healthy as part of healing formulas. 'Wellness Formula' at Whole Foods has propolis in it, and isatis and horehound, the Amerindians used for upper upper-respiratory bugs.

So there you have it. Per vegetarianism and esp. veganism versus a more traditional diet, I've been my own laboratory.

I can attest to the mind-bending paradigm shifts required to entertain, let alone attempt changes based on research, and I sympathize. I would have shrieked and fought as hard as any of you; but when your life depends on it, you do what you have to do.

I hope none of you veggies have to go through the pain, terror, and suffering I did, partly due to my own stubbornness about nutrition principles that were not correct. I hope you remember to think like intellectuals who examine fearlessly, and not dogmatists.

Dogmatists can be controlled. Intellectuals are more wild and dangerous. They can examine, think, and change their mind. They are not easily rounded up as 'sheeple' in political/consumer movements.

As someone who values her brain as much as her beauty, I take the care and feeding of the brain as utmost importance. Interestingly, the brain and the skin evolve from the same embryonic tissue, so when you give the brain the nourishment it needs, esp. the healthy fats, you are feeding your sikin. This from Dr. Nicholas Pericone, dermatologist and skin researcher.

Women get fillers and injections of silicone, restyline, and all kinds of things to fill out their facial architecture, but are terrified of eating enough healthy proteins, and the types of fats that lead to plush radiant skin.

Lads, before I lose you, your looks count too. When you look younger, you are seen as more viable in the job and mating markets. Skip the botox. Eat your fish oils, and butter, and wild salmon (another nod to Dr. Perricone). Take a look at old veggies sometime. They don't age well.

Seriously, read 'The Mood Cure' (see Amazon link above.) There is more information than I could share here.

Dogmatists also tend to have zero sense of humor along with zero tolerance.

Speaking of pussycats--there are some misguided folks who attempt to feed their cats a veggie diet. Not feasable since they need animal protein to survive.

I can't help but think back to vocal vegan River Phoenix--who of course OD'd on vegan drugs.

On the other hand, I hate needless cruelty to animals, and the way animals are kept and butchered today is doubtless not pretty. I think kosher butchering is more humane.

Vegan or not, plenty of fruit and veggies is doubtless a good thing. Most Americans don't get enough of that.

Great, funny piece!

One thing that is often overlooked is we have canine teeth--not exactly biologically designed to be vegan.

"One thing that is often overlooked is we have canine teeth--not exactly biologically designed to be vegan."
Huh? Are you sure you're not a vampire? I haven't seen any humans with the sharp canines of a carnivore. Even a gorilla has fangs WAY bigger and sharper than ours! Bears are omnivores. Compare your so-called omnivorous "canines" and "claws" to a bear!

Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6 times their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12 times their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.

Carnivores' stomachs are 20 times more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.

The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.

Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly -- they don't have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.

Carnivores don't require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.

Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore's digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.

Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.

I suggest you check out the link I included as the URL.

Jessica, thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your opinions, and it is your health. Meanwhile, I have to get back to the chicken curry I am making. (Seriously.)

The real truth to all this might lie in the fact that humans were eating meat AND vegetables from the year dot.

It seems to me that any argument in favour of vegan eating habits loses sight of the fact that humans intrinsically knew what diet was good for them, and part of that diet included meat.

That's why I don't buy the vegan/vegetarian nexus on a health level. It's generally an ideological standpoint, and fair enough if that's your go.

But like ex-smokers and right-wing "christian" evangelical God-botherers, most vegans and more than a few vegetarians (not all, though, by a longshot) are very annoying in their judgment of people who don't hold to their views.

The responses to Ashtoreth's story might be indicative ...

And I'll add here, if a vegansexual didn't want to have sex with me (and I certainly wouldn't seek it out, and possibly I wouldn't blame them but I digress), I'd probably be quite happy about that - as I do like a little bit of meat in both the literal and figurative senses.

So, would a vegan refuse to go down on their lover? ;-)

Only if they a) weren't into it; or b) discovered they were eating a bit of meat on the sly (like a surfing mate of mine who was married to a vegetarian and who used to stop for two dirty great Aussie-style hamburgers with bacon and egg on the way to the beach in the morning, and then tell us not to tell his wife).

She suspects, though ...

Ok, for all the veggies and omnivores out there here is surprising news.

T-rex is in the barnyard and feathers are flying! ;)

Hello there,

Shall we please stop mud-slinging at each other?

Any vegansexual females in Melbourne interested in a vegetariansexual male??

Cheers,

Vegetariansexual Male

You are too cute ManInMelbourne. If I knew of any, I'd send 'em your way. :)

Walter Sear you are amazing. But do not fear, there are some vegan women such as myself that are not clueless.