If we got rid of the UN how would we deal with international crises. Would the US just rule by imperial fiat? I doubt we can afford the cost that would bring.

Follow the money. In particular, the US dollar. It is not backed by gold or silver. It's only commodity support is the fact that only US dollars can be used to buy oil.

Saddam Hussein started selling oil for Euros. The US then invaded Iraq and now Saddam is dead. Last month Iran announced they were going to start selling oil for Euros.

Why does it bother you if the Iranian President says the Israeli government should be disbanded? To equate that with genocide is absurd on its face.
Iran protects the rights of Iranian Jews to practice their religion in Article 13 of its Constitution. There are thousands of Jews living in Tehran right now. Tehran has 23 Synagogues.
Iran has not attacked Israel. Iran has not attacked the United States. The Iranian President is not calling for the slaughter of Jews. Ahmadenijad is no different than a barking dog in a yard down the street from you. Leave him alone and he will leave you alone. He is entitled to voice his opinions.

< Iran, Genocide, and Human Rights: Is the UN Any Use at All?

In it's current form, no. Clearly not. The world is littered with UN failures. We need a drastic overhaul of the institution, specifically...

UnitedDemocraticNations.org

There's clearly a need for cooperation on the global level, now more than ever before, but until we reform the institution itself, keep your expectations low.

gary

No more war!. Ya I wish. Just maybe Mahemroid Ahmadijeckoffag will end up in a spider hole getting fucked by a horney camel or a Bill Clinton Cigar wrapped in heavy dudy tinfoil. We can only hope.

Lumpy: the US - with its massive consumer base and military and commitments made world wide to maintain and underwrite a system of relatively free markets - already rules and we taxpayers already fund this

NMW: imagine what would happen if the US gov stopped printing funny money consumer dollars that support international production and trade

are the Europeans actually in a position to guarantee consumption and manage inflationary pressures - ?

----

unless we empower the UN with some kind of control over our sovereignty it will remain little more than a debating society and one hegemon or another will be required to actually get shit done internationally

unless we empower the UN with some kind of control over our sovereignty it will remain little more than a debating society and one hegemon or another will be required to actually get shit done internationally

troll,

You would empower the UN with control over sovereignty? You would entrust your fate to pieces of shit like Mugabe? Isn't it bad enough that your country's balls are in a little jar in Riyadh and you've sold yourselves out to them? Please tell me that I read wrong and need new glasses. I haven't read anything so idiotic a suggestion for a long time.

Troll. You certainly wouldn't want to give the UN as it now exists control over any part of our sovereignty. Maybe if it was replaced by a better alternative organization.

Cameron,

Thousands of Jews leave Persia all the time to live here. I know lots of them. No matter how bad things are here, no Jew has to kiss Moslem ass in the Persian neighborhoods of J-lem.

Maariv reports that the IDF is planning ways to destroy Iranian nuclear facilities. I hope they actually attack them, though destroying Teheran would be a far more effective solution.

Ahmadinejad wants war. He should get what he wants - from US,in Israel - in spades.

We have the capability to do these things - we should trust in G-d and not America and finally do what is right.

Ruvy - you read wrong...I was pointing out what would have to happen for the UN to function as a 'world government'

that's not something that I advocate

but then that leaves some super power with a thankless job

Ruvy, You said it best. Trust in G-d and not in America. Israel is G-d,s territory and not America,s. I know Israel as the capability of removeing Iran/Persia off the planet. The sooner the better. Please Israel if you are reading this do not rely on the US to fix your promblems. I love my country however my fear is for Israel. Please do the job yourself. I believe your a divided country and you must be united and get your shit together. LONG LIVE ISRAEL. sr

Rule #1:
Run like hell away from anyone who claims to know what God wants or says.

Mr Lee. Just keep running like Forrest Gump. I hear it's great for the body and soul. Dont forget to drink your water. See you at the finish line.

Dave Nalle has shown in all of his posts that he doesn't have any knowledge about international law- he simply denies applicability when he sees fit: in Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Cuba or any other nation that doesn't suck up to US foreign policy. He has claimed that the US-forces have not violated international law in Iraq, Afghanistan in South America or elsewhere, although courts and institutions have made contrary assessments. He certainly does not give a fuck about human rights, besides his own. He also doesn't care about the United Nations as an Institution or its charter. He thinks it should be overruled as he sees fit.

And Ruvy- are you out of your mind ... destroying Teheran with 7 million inhabitans ?

Paul2:

I can't imagine what you are doing posting commonsense comments on this gameboy site.

The UN was economically gutted by the US--who holds it hostage to rubber stamp its massive menu of acts against international law.

Of course Israel should be de-countrified. It's a no brainer.

"I can't imagine what you are doing posting commonsense comments on this gameboy site."

And yet, here you are, mr. Again.

The UN is a tool for the western powers. It has achieved nothing and particular with the second Lebanon war. When the zionist regime of Israel were slaughtering innocent civilians the US were veteoing every measure against the war. Iran has the second most jewish population after the zionist regime of Israel. Israel has tried to pursuay the Iranian jews to come to Israel for cash but they refused because of their proud history. Also, if the zionist regime of Israel does decide to attack Iran, it will embark the middle east. Though, the double standards the US and zionist regime of Israel of having nucleur weapons they can't afford another war. The US is bogged down in Iraq which the government has more of a close tie to Iran than the Imperialistic government of the Bush administration and Israel would provoke Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria, and most of the Islamic world. They will not win. Iran, has never attacked anybody throughout their 30 years of the Islamic Revolution. Ahmadinejad is a brilliant leader compared to the awful tyrants of Bush and Olmert. So please, if war breaks out..the US and zionist regime of Israel would drastically lose.

Paul,

The fucker who runs Iran wants me and every Jew who lives in Israel dead. Hey! Why should I give a damn if a nuke kills seven million Iranians? To satisfy your notions of Christian charity? Forget it! Find some other Jesus to stick on a cross.

This asshole is sacrificing the humanity of those he rules daily with his demands for my genocide. And they are not throwing him out.

WE in Israel have been made to pay for the stupidity of our leaders. In spades. Why shouldn't the Iranians pony up, too?

Where was your international law when MY people were sitting in death camps, Paul? Out to lunch? Where were the Europeans when Hitler was slowly accumulating power? Drinking Evian water, figuring out how to close their doors to Jews and Gypsies? Where were the Americans? Hiding behind their seacoasts?

What humanity have you earned that I should respect it?

The people who want me dead deserve to die. It is a very simple concept, Paul. Kill off the fucker who wants to kill you before he gets the chance. If you don't like it, get a barf bag and throw up.

Ruvy,

Take your pills.

Clavos, I don't make any attempt to post commonsense comments on this site. It's just a place folks like you go to caress folks like Nalle. Jerkoffs.

Rule #2:
Run like hell away from anyone who thinks that God wants him to be an instrument of righteous wrath and punishment.

Ruvy - I doubt that very many folks in Tehran want you dead yet you'd kill them all not even preserving a sixth

As nuts as this guy is I am frankly surprised one of his Israeli neighbors hasn't slipped a molotov cocktail down his pants.

The ultimate wedgie....

"Clavos, I don't make any attempt to post commonsense comments on this site"

Not to worry, mr. We've noticed.

The bottom line is that the UN will only become effective when morality and humanity supercede the political, military, ideological and economic interests of its member states. The record of the UN in preventing and interceding in genocide is extremely bleak. Rwanda, named officially as a genocide by the UN, was victimized by the inherent impotence of the UN. The UN has ritually condemned Israel but tolerates the activities of authoritarian despotic regimes such as Syria and Iran. The world community essentially turns a blind eye to the daily virulent anti-semitism espoused by the Palestinian media. How many more genocides are needed before the phrase "Never again" attains any real meaning? Dennis L.

NUKE THE FUCKERS.

Why does it bother you if the Iranian President says the Israeli government should be disbanded? To equate that with genocide is absurd on its face.

Cameron, you're the second person to try to blow that particular smoke up my ass in the last two days. Where does this idea that Ahmadinejad wants the Israeli governmnet disbanded come from? Is it something the Birchers or some other extremist group is circulating.

Can you not READ the quotes in the article? He doesn't want to disband or replace the government of Israel, he wants to wipe the country out. He's said it over and over again. There's nothing ambiguous about it. He's talking about national ad racial extermination, and not being terribly subtle about it.

Iran protects the rights of Iranian Jews to practice their religion in Article 13 of its Constitution. There are thousands of Jews living in Tehran right now. Tehran has 23 Synagogues.

Except, of course for the large number of Iranian Jews imprisoned for various reasons, including on trumped up charges of spying for Israel. Oh, and the 13 who have been executed for religious or political reasons. Ah, and about those synagogues - that's great, except that the government has prohibited services in them and there are no rabbis in the country. They've also replaced the principals of the three jewish schools with Muslims and are now teaching those kids only in Persian, with a good dose of indoctrination.

And, of course, huge numbers of Jews have fled Iran. Hell, it's generally believed that a quarter of the population of Beverly Hills is made up of Iranian Jews. They didn't flee because the current regime is nice to them.

Iran has not attacked Israel. Iran has not attacked the United States. The Iranian President is not calling for the slaughter of Jews.

He has PAID for the slaughter of Jews through the efforts of his catspaws in Hezbollah.

Ahmadenijad is no different than a barking dog in a yard down the street from you. Leave him alone and he will leave you alone. He is entitled to voice his opinions.

Except that he voices them in the form of death and destruction against innocent people. Hardly a harmless 'bark', dog though he may be.

dave

In it's current form, no. Clearly not. The world is littered with UN failures. We need a drastic overhaul of the institution, specifically...

www.UnitedDemocraticNations.org

The problem with the idea of the UDN, which is at least partly on the right track, is that their primary criteria is democracy, when there are a great many democratic nations - like Iran - which are still oppressive and abusive.

A real alternative to the UN should be a federal government, rather than a democratic government, and membership should be determined by objective standards of human rights and the rule of law, not just democracy, which is more of a mechanism of government than a system of government.

And frankly, there are too many countries which just aren't ready to participate in democracy within their own borders or internationally. A benevolent dictatorship could easily be more humane and less abusive than the democratic regime in Iran.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the reply. I would have to hear more about your criteria for membership...maybe our difference is just semantics. As for Iran, I doubt they would be a member as I believe they exclude candidates & parties arbitrarily.

> there are too many countries which just aren't ready to participate in democracy

Not true. Every country, every human on the planet deserves democracy immediately. Best form of government known to mankind. Churchill said it best...

"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried."

gary
www.UnitedDemocraticNations.org

Churchill was a smart guy, but there's more to it than just democracy. Democracy really isn't even a form of government at all. All democracy is at core is a method of selecting leaders. It has to be part of a larger structure of government for it to function. Remember that Hitler was elected in a free election with multiple political parties. And there are countries with a fairly low standard of democracy which nonetheless have pretty reasonable governments. I think a written Constitution and a court system to enforce it might be a qualifier.

I'm working on an article addressing how a UN alternative might be better structured to avoid the pitfalls which have destroyed the UN. I actually started it long before this article, but I think I'll finish it up in the context of recent events.

Dave

Nalle would now have us believe that HE personally translated the president of Iran's comments from Farsi to English!

The nonsense about "wiped off the map" was exposed for the--I will be generous and say mistranslation instead of outright lie--it was months ago.

But Nalle follows the Goebbels manual of propagnada and just keeps circulating the same old lies--believing that if he says them enough times they will be seen as "truths".

Disbanded is much closer to the meaning of what was said about Israel. (I do not speak Farsi but have several Iranian friends in Bahrain who DO.)

MR, I've seen multiple translations of the same statements from multiple sources. Even the most generous doesn't change the basic intent of what Ahmadinejad has said. In addition I checked with a family member who's fluent in Farsi and he confirmed that these quotes are accurate and that Ahmadinejad has said even more equally egregious things which haven't gotten as much press coverage.

Ahmadinejad has ALSO made statements suggesting that the 'zionists' should be removed from power or that the state of israel's government should be disbanded, but those are separate statements which makes it easy for propagandists like your friends in Bahrain to create misdirection and deception.

I don't need to propagate lies, because I can make my points using truths verifiable from multiple international sources. Hell, even Al Jazeera confirms many of these comments.

Dave

Dave

Really!!


We have to find another way of understanding Arabs and Jews. Read Ruvy's comments and you will find the same rhetoric. Its genetic. Its called DRAMA. All of the hoopla that they create has us all running like chickens with our heads cut off. They are just being themselves, DRAMA QUEENS. For goodness sakes they talk about sleeping with a thousand virgins after death do you buy that? Its all theatrical and over the top hence the over representation of Jews as attorneys, in entertainment and medicine (areas that deal casually with life and death). DRAMA!!

Listen to any interview of an Arab on the street. Its all so bombastic. Comments like "may Allah take the lions of the devil infidel and crush them with the crashing boulders of great Mt Ararat", in response to a minor faux pas. You and I sit in our living rooms thinking daaaaaang is it that bad? Everything is operatic. Heck you may have read Elvira's responses to me a few months back. They were so off the charts, filled with conspiracy and accusations of abuse it was L'Orfeo all played out of BC... sigh. No matter what I said, it seemed really important to her that she be tormented and by the end of it I was assigned an ilk (my very first one). DRAMA.

Once we all figure that out, we will cease to pay credence to the hoopla and focus on what is real and relieve ourselves from the costs that we concur from dealing with this region.

Off course not all Jews or Arabs express themselves in such over the top ways but it is prevelant.

The use the U.N. has is world unity and now this is falling apart to. I believe that the U.N. needs reform. This can be done by the U.S. resigning from the U.N. When this happens the U.N. will dissolve like the League of Nations did and from there we can set something better up.

AG

Christopher,

Please never ban MR from BC. She is hilarious!!

For goodness sakes they talk about sleeping with a thousand virgins after death do you buy that?

You know, not only do I not buy that but it puzzles me.

Considering that, in some Islamic cultures at least, it is considered desirable for a man to have more than one wife; and that presumably, after marrying these women, he sleeps with each of them... I mean, just purely from a statistical point of view, where do they think all these virgins are coming from?

Doc

I don't know. I'm guessing that all of the females who never married through out history are waiting to hook up with all of the martyrs. Obviously this would be in their culture and not anyone else's because of the virgin factor. Also, will they have the body parts to "sleep with" if they blow themselves up or do you get new parts to deal with the great demand from the thousand. Also if they are virgins, are they cute or are they rejects? Would you want to sleep with them? I suppose the idea of resting in peace would be out of the window. Seems rather busy and with a thousand women clambering after you, it cant be too peaceful.

Zedd,

Well, presumably Allah glues you back together again before letting you loose in Paradise. And I'm not entirely sure if you even get to sleep with the virgins. I think they're just there to feed grapes to you and stuff. But why does a dead man need grapes?

Secondly, if you do succumb and sleep with one, she would no longer be a virgin and you would be left with only 999 virgins. Do you get a replacement from the reserves to bring your quota back up to a round thousand?

I do know some cute virgins. Although I suspect that they'd have to convert to Islam in order to be eligible for martyr duty, and I don't think they're prepared to go that far.

Doc

It doesn't say how old the virgins are or were when they went to be with Allah. You may be looking at some granny virgins. I suppose gandpa martyrs need grapes too.

Good point on the replacement virgin theory. Wow these martyrs need to slow down, we are going to run out of virgins.

Naaah, I'm thinking you only get the 1000. After that, too bad, so sad. Eternity is a long time. Perhaps one succumbing per millenium.

Hey, do virgins from other galaxies count or is it just earthling virgins? I cant imagine that with the earth being so young that Allah didn't have anything to do before then. There must be other planets. So I'm guessing that there would be alien virgins. Is that a good thing?

Oh, boy. If we're gonna go extra-anthropic, what about organisms who reproduce asexually? Does the term "virgin" even make sense there?

Funny!!!!

SOMEBODY STOP US!!!!!

One name Salman Rushdie


ehhmm did I say I lived in Texas, I meant Tazmania, yeah thats it... and I'm a virgin?

Yup. That'll do it.

:-)

Nuke Zimbabwe.

"Iran has not attacked the United States."

Yes they have. They're killing our troops in Iraq with explosively formed projectiles, a kind of IED. And there are reports that they are assisting the Taliban in Afghanistan.

"Every country, every human on the planet deserves democracy immediately. Best form of government known to mankind."

The Palestinians got democracy when Arafat died. They elected Hamas.

The Egyptians tested the democratic waters recently. And the murderous, radical Muslim Brotherhood make great gains.

Iran has some democratic elements. And the people there apparently chose Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

The Venezuelans chose Hugo Chavez Frias. Iraqis chose a government which allies itself with Muqtada al-Sadr and sharia law. Russians seem to love Putin.

Clearly, democracy ain't perfect...

We chose Bush and now 600,000 Iraqis are said to be dead.

I was going to chime in and say that YOU AMERICANS had democracy and chose Bush - twice.

But better that Zedd chime in instead and that I stand near (but never within, heaven forfend) her amen corner...

Of course the question is how much democracy do YOU AMERICANS still have, but that is desalt with at another post, I believe...

While I'm desalting my logic, I might point out that we Israelis allegedly have democracy - and we chose Olmert the idiot, and the parliament we chose, chose Peres the vulture to be president.

RJ - do you see a moral difference between Iranians arming Shia to fight Americans in Iraq and the US arming the mujahideen to fight Russians in Afghanistan - ?

the solution of course is for Israel to nuke D.C.

and why isn't Afghanistan's poppy crop traded on the commodities market - ?

"Yes they have. They're killing our troops in Iraq with explosively formed projectiles, a kind of IED. And there are reports that they are assisting the Taliban in Afghanistan."
- RJ Elliott

All the more reason for those who haven't served yet to sign up and help out.

don't let anyone tell you who to kill...don't sign up

"and why isn't Afghanistan's poppy crop traded on the commodities market - ?"

if we legalized drugs, which we should do, it could be.

Troll,

It isn´t on the commodities market because the CIA runs the whole operation. That's why the US invaded Afghanistan after the Taliban wiped out the poppy business.

Immediately the crop was back up to record levels, and the CIA rolling in proceeds.

Dave Nalle has an Iranian reltive....!!!!

Right. Pull the other one.

#55: You betcha. And companies like Glaxo Smithkline would be making bank.

Even more than they already are...

the Nalle cartel - ?

#57,

Yep. Pharma stocks do very nicely, better, even, than energy stocks.

Dave Nalle has an Iranian reltive....!!!!

Actually, that's not what I said, MR. I said that I had talked to a relative who is fluent in Farsi. Interestingly you can speak the language without actually being a native. But I also have Persian relatives by marriage - double marriage, since they're married to my brother-in-law's brother. But I do see them regularly. And do keep in mind that I once spoke the language fluently too, though it was when I lived there as a kid. You need to pay attention - all of this has been covered before.

Dave

The most glaring question with regard to the Afghani harvest is why the street price of heroin in the west has plunged to record low levels?

Are we supposed to believe that a bunch of Afghan farmers and a small group of freelance warlords are able to outwit, effectively to defeat, the Western powers and the Taleban, when they couldn't defeat the Taleban alone?

Nalle,

You have absolutely no shame. You go to the most ridiculous lengths possible to try to be right.

I am aware that one can speak languages fluently without being a native, as I speak several and am bilingual English/Spanish--and am also a specialist in foreign language acquisition.

You, however, are just talking out your ass--and I don't believe that shit has been accepted as a legitimate language. Yet.

I know, I know--you are working on that....

"The most glaring question with regard to the Afghani harvest is why the street price of heroin in the west has plunged to record low levels?"

The most logical answer is: the market is flooded, but I'm just guessing.

what's glaring is how fun it is to say 'poppy crop' quickly

I tried it, and after about three repetitions it started coming out as "pocker pop".

I could never be a cattle auctioneer, I fear...

"I could never be a cattle auctioneer, I fear..."

They sell heroin at cattle auctions, now???

When did that start?

D'oh!

How else do you account for those farmers being able to understand exactly what the price of each animal is when all the rest of us can hear the auctioneer say is "HUP-hurrthnr-hurrthnr-hurrthnr"?

Of Course!!! Thanks, Doc. Yet another of life's great mysteries solved!

Doc, you da man!

Clavos, I'll assume you misunderstood rather than were being intentionally obtuse.

My point is how is that much heroin getting out of a country with such strong military control?

I think we all caught that oh serious one...I like your 'nally' suggestion btw

I did misunderstand, Chris, but the answer seems obvious: In Mexico, we call it Mordida.

I stand corrected

Perhaps going into those foreign nations 'Hilton-first' is not the most diplomatic way to initiate formal relations.

My Farsi is not perfect but I think this is what he really said. "Iran is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

"The UN was economically gutted by the US--who holds it hostage to rubber stamp its massive menu of acts against international law'

It's official: MR is a pipi caca.

"This can be done by the U.S. resigning from the U.N. When this happens the U.N. will dissolve like the League of Nations did and from there we can set something better up.'

With or without the U.S.?

The United Staes was instrumental in conceiving both organizations and like it or not, they will survive only with their leadership. What we've done is allowed the maniacs to take over the UN asylum and there's no way out. If anything, the UN shows the true dysfunction of other nations more than it does the US.

So yes, the UN needs massive reform. Maybe Hugo Chavez is the man to save the world.

I thought Ahmagonnastartajihad said "durka durka mohammed jihad"

I don't know if Chavez can save the world--given the infantile folks living in it (cross section of fascist fuddleheads on this site is a good example of the challenges out there)--but he already offered to save the UN by moving the HQ to Caracas.

I would be more supportive of that if the food here was better....

I do think that it would be beneficial for the world if the UN was moved elsewhere. We have a very shallow understanding of the world in this country and should not be the hosts of such an important organization.

It was our destabilizing attempts that rendered the UN almost inapt as of several years back. Since Bush1 we set forth a campaign with the uninformed in this country to dismiss the UN. We had intentions to do what we have since done in Iraq but didn't because at least Bush1 was smart enough to know that it wouldn't fly. The military personnel were poisoned against the UN and were pumped up with the notion declaring that they would never fight under the UN flag.

If you remember properly, we stopped paying our dues and were pushing poor countries like Lesotho up against the wall for missed dues. Some even think that the misdeeds in the UN were planted by us. Remember the Butros Butros Gali incident with Bush1, it was designed to belittle the institution so that we could have our way. The manner in which his names was pronounced by Bush was designed to highlight his "unAmericanness" because we are known for our ignorance towards forrrrrreigners and our obscenely over inflated egos. All this so that they could eventually manipulate the world to get what they want.

The UN is lead by us. The UN sucks because America needs for it to suck. Its how we roll.

Zedd#48. Did you say only 600,000 Iraqis or 6+million Jews. I sure the hell wont lose any sleep for a few dead Iraqis or millions of muslims. The nukes will start falling in two hours. Sincerely, Mr and Mrs Moonbat.

sr

Sorry. You bore me. You are not entertaining nor are you diabolical enough to invoke intrigue. You know what I think about your acumen so don't bother.

I entertained you for a couple of days but you never responded in a clever enough way to keep me interested. It was all so out dated yet not retro enough to cause reminiscence. Just bland.

Its clear that you are too afraid to make a serious contribution because you don't feel secure in our competence. I say take a leap. You are no good at being a smart alec. It takes smarts and uhmmmmmm, well you know....

Sorry kid.

Zedd, if the U.S. is as shallow and petty as you depict, I shutter to think of that state of other nations.

After WWII, it was American leadership that mended the world after a mad war begun by others. If some could, they would have loved to find a way to pin the Great Wars upon America.

More than any major power, America - in all its imperfections - played by the UN rules for the longest time. Look at the security council and compare the records. It's plain for all to see. Interestingly, they did so when their relative power was possibly at its zenith. Compared to all the great empires and superpowers of the past, America is a pussycat in many ways.

Personally, I cut America some slack. Blemishes and all.

If this makes me an indoctrinated stooge, so be it. Happiness is warm gun, mama....

Alessandro

Americas successes and strengths both past and present should not be used as a forgive all token for perpetuity.

Just as every individual has her strengths, so do countries. America is horrible with foreign policy. America has never been fully committed to participating internationally. We have always engaged reluctantly. Yes our economic engagements have been without reservation but the vision of ourselves as a part of a larger global entity, is and has always been difficult to accept. We have a slight adversarial relationship with the rest of the world. Our take is, its our way or we will make it our way regardless of the results.

We the people are VERY shallow when it comes to understanding the world. Perhaps your physical detachment contributes to your more optimistic view point. BELIEVE ME, you have no idea just how bad it is. Americans barely know about their own system of governance and fellow BC contributors, posters and observers will corroborate this.

Truthfully we don't deserve the role that we continue to take internationally. We lack maturity. Like all adolescents, we are strong, energetic, impatient, judgemental, impetuous, wrong a lot of the time without knowing it or acknowledging it and certainly not qualified to lead ancient civilizations. We don't have the chops.

Alessandro

This is not to say once more that America is not a great nation. We are. We are great at a lot of things many of which occurred because of factors like our geographic location and the political situation in Europe at our conception. We are great because of our diversity and the brain pull from other nations. We are great because we have a genetic pool of the adventurous of the world. We are great because of our spirit and our self confidence. We are great because of our might and innovation.

We are not great for our foreign dealings outside of economics and militarily.

I do think that it would be beneficial for the world if the UN was moved elsewhere.

I agree, but for different reasons. Ones that make sense.

We have a very shallow understanding of the world in this country and should not be the hosts of such an important organization.

This would be the definition of twaddle. To suggest that an entire nation of 300 million people has a shallow understanding of the world is patently ridiculous. We don't have beet farmers from Idaho representing us at the UN or running our foreign policy. We've got plenty of people as experienced and as knowledgable of the rest of the world as anyone IN the rest of the world, and those are the ones who are generally drawn on to deal with the UN or other foreign powers. That you should suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

It was our destabilizing attempts that rendered the UN almost inapt as of several years back. Since Bush1 we set forth a campaign with the uninformed in this country to dismiss the UN.

Except that it's not the 'uninformed' who are displeased with the UN, it is many of those who are most knowledgable about it and aware of its failures to live up to its mandate. That includes many of its own leaders like the current Secretary General.

We had intentions to do what we have since done in Iraq but didn't because at least Bush1 was smart enough to know that it wouldn't fly. The military personnel were poisoned against the UN and were pumped up with the notion declaring that they would never fight under the UN flag.

They were 'poisoned' agains the UN by the actions of the UN in places like Bosnia, and they were also unable to stretch the first gulf war out any longer because the military just wasn't in the shape it needed to be in after 8 years of neglect under Clinton.

If you remember properly, we stopped paying our dues and were pushing poor countries like Lesotho up against the wall for missed dues. Some even think that the misdeeds in the UN were planted by us. Remember the Butros Butros Gali incident with Bush1, it was designed to belittle the institution so that we could have our way. The manner in which his names was pronounced by Bush was designed to highlight his "unAmericanness" because we are known for our ignorance towards forrrrrreigners and our obscenely over inflated egos. All this so that they could eventually manipulate the world to get what they want.

You really do live in a fantastical world. The reason we cut off dues to the UN is that they don't do what they are supposed to do and the only leverage we have is money. If they don't like us using that leverage they should boot us out.

The UN is lead by us. The UN sucks because America needs for it to suck. Its how we roll.

If it's led by us why are groups like the Human Rights Council dominated by a bunch of dictators and terrorists?

Dave

Dave

Your disingenuous approach can be taxing.

You know full well that Americans don't know about our own system of governance let alone foreign policy. Should we even discuss this to the further illumination of our own gross ineptitude?

Its childish for you to be so literal is to infer that I meant all 300K. I will respond to you the way that I had to explain to my children when they were around nine years old and say, honey adults typically don't speak in literal terms. They speak in averages and approximations. When its 3:46, we typically say 3:45.. Perhaps your aspergers is acting up again.

As to the rest of your comments, its clear that you are among those who were taken by the propaganda against the UN. If you had been aware of what was going on politically at the time, you would have understood the PR assault that was taking place. This was a successful attempt to produce the attitude that you have.
Dave wake up, we cant lead if we are reluctant to participate. If the leader is not engaged, the mission WILL fail. The UN failed because of our sabotage and manipulative, uncommitted destructive, leadership strategies. The UN has to put a great deal of energy time and resources on just us, in order to get the real work done. They have to maneuver around us first in order to be productive. We stifle the UN, as a result we need to get out of the way. This should address the rest of your comments. Let it sink in.

Zedd,

"BELIEVE ME, you have no idea just how bad it is. Americans barely know about their own system of governance and fellow BC contributors, posters and observers will corroborate this."

As a former honours student of history, believe me when I say I do. I am not protected by distance. I am very close to America because of friends and family. I am all too aware of the failures, weaknesses and yes shallow parts of America.

The truth is, from my experiences, I have met both incredibly thoughtful and enlightened Americans and those you describe. The same negatives you attach to Americans can be attached to what I have seen in France, Canada and Italy - three countries I know very well. I would have to agree with Dave on this front.

"America has never been fully committed to participating internationally. We have always engaged reluctantly. Yes our economic engagements have been without reservation but the vision of ourselves as a part of a larger global entity, is and has always been difficult to accept."

Perhaps. However, while isolationism and exceptionalism have confused matters, American leaders and diplomats have been skillful and willing to be part of the international community in the past. Mind you, given the tin pot crackheads who run some countries, I would not blame America if it would ever shut down its borders and doors. Then I would love to see the world....

"America is horrible with foreign policy."

I reject this outright. Though it would be helpful to know which periods are you talking about specifically. It's easier to run the foreign policy of many countries who do not face the responsibilities the U.S. must face.

Alessandro

We have crackpots too. The problem is that we 1) don't realise it because we don't care to know about our real politics 2) We are PR'ed to the ying yang. Artifice rules in American politics. 3) We don't want to know that our politicians are human. We want our malaise. 4) Our wealth and brawn and power, masks some of our inaptitude. ex Bush and his nominees.

I have traveled to other countries and the average Joe in this country is clueless. There is absolutely no comparison. If the news item hasn't been choreographed by some producer (PR, spin pro) and beaten into their subconscious with all of the jazz hands, Fossey moves, it just doesn't stick.

I chose not to use the term isolationism because we have to face what that really means. It tends to have a ring of steadfastness, resolve and brave face. Its important to understand how that approach affects the world especially if you want to lead. You cant be reluctant in your engagement and expect to lead producing a good output. It cant happen. Its not happening.

Please explain to me if you will why it is that you believe that without the leadership of the US, the UN would crumble? What specifically do you think we contribute that cant be rendered by others?

In the case of the UN, I would say, it prevails despite the US.

Your disingenuous approach can be taxing.

I guess I just find it hard to believe you're really as utterly clueless as you seem.

You know full well that Americans don't know about our own system of governance let alone foreign policy. Should we even discuss this to the further illumination of our own gross ineptitude?

Again, gross generalizations trip you up. Running the country does not require ALL Americans or even more than a handful to be politically savvy and internationally aware. The mental state or level of knowledge of beet farmers and soccer moms is largely irrelevant.

Its childish for you to be so literal is to infer that I meant all 300K.

If you don't mean something, then don't say it.

I will respond to you the way that I had to explain to my children when they were around nine years old and say, honey adults typically don't speak in literal terms. They speak in averages and approximations. When its 3:46, we typically say 3:45.. Perhaps your aspergers is acting up again.

So you teach your children that adults lie?

I do see what you're saying here, but what you seem not to understand is that the general ignorance of the public is irrelevant in issues of state, so long as the people put in positions of authority - our diplomats and jurists and legislators are not equally ignorant. And in the case of the legislators their ignorance is generally countered by a knowledgable staff.

As to the rest of your comments, its clear that you are among those who were taken by the propaganda against the UN. If you had been aware of what was going on politically at the time, you would have understood the PR assault that was taking place. This was a successful attempt to produce the attitude that you have.

Actually, I just look at the history of the UN and can see that it is obviously fundamentally flawed by design. And I do agree it's largely the fault of the US for not thinking the insitution through in a more long-term way from the very beginning.

A very large part of the problem is the general powerlessness of the UN, but that powerlessness exists largely because the institution can't be trusted and has proven that over and over again. This is why I think the UN ought to be disbanded and replaced by a completely different sort of international peace organization which would actually be capable of having and weilding power responsibly.

Dave wake up, we cant lead if we are reluctant to participate. If the leader is not engaged, the mission WILL fail. The UN failed because of our sabotage and manipulative, uncommitted destructive, leadership strategies.

No, the UN failed because it didn't work the way that it ought to, causing us to have little choice but to undermine it.

We are at fault for designing it badly, but the way it's been dealt with since that time is only a symptom of the larger problem.

The UN has to put a great deal of energy time and resources on just us, in order to get the real work done. They have to maneuver around us first in order to be productive. We stifle the UN, as a result we need to get out of the way.

No, we need to get rid of the UN and start over with an institution which will not behave in such a way that nations like the US cannot support it.

Dave

We have crackpots too. The problem is that we 1) don't realise it because we don't care to know about our real politics 2) We are PR'ed to the ying yang. Artifice rules in American politics. 3) We don't want to know that our politicians are human. We want our malaise. 4) Our wealth and brawn and power, masks some of our inaptitude. ex Bush and his nominees.

You need to stop saying 'we'. Speak for yourself. Admit you're clueless. And yes, many other Americans are too, but as I said before, having a clueless populace is NOT the same as having clueless leaders and representatives.

I have traveled to other countries and the average Joe in this country is clueless.

I'd bet I've travelled to more other countries than you have, and the average joe in every one of them is just as clueless as the average joe in America.

Dave

Zedd writes,

I do think that it would be beneficial for the world if the UN was moved elsewhere.

And I agree! The bottom of the East River would be the perfect place for all these useless paper-pushers - building and all. Actually one of the deeper Atlantic trenches would be more useful - except for polluting the water with huge amounts of lies... The shits have the balls to quote OUR prophet (Yeshayá) while they continually condemn us! Typical goyim; trying to steal Jewish wisdom while pushing us Jews off the cliff...

And Marthe - every Persian speaker I know - and I know quite a few - translates Ahmadinejad as wanting to kill us off here. You can listen to all the bullshit you want and spout it too. But it is still bullshit.

It must be painful though - pushing bullshit out of a raven's beak...

"No, we need to get rid of the UN and..."
- Dave Nalle, 00:00

"You need to stop saying 'we'. Speak for yourself..."
- Dave Nalle, 00:03

------------------------------

Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy there, only three minutes after his first statement?

Dave

having a clueless populace is NOT the same as having clueless leaders and representatives.

No argument here. Its dangerous to have clueless leaders. However, we do have clueless leaders.

Dave you wouldn't know how to engage anyone to the extent of having an intellectual discussion, within or without our boarders. You are so wrapped up in Americania that no one would know what the heck you are talking about outside of the US. The shallow scope of your discourse would bore the heck out of anyone with half a brain. Your inability to conduct discourse beyond the propaganda of our time would render you smiles and questions about Hollywood in foreign lands.

Rude yet truthful remarks deleted by author...

The average Joe with an education around the world is not the same as us Dave. Heck if you went into most large corporations and tried to engage a person at VP level in an intellectual discussion, the best you would get is patriotic drivel and something about the free market, full stop.

We actually have disdain towards intellectuals in this country. Academia is loathed. In other words having a real grasp of cause and affect for social phenomena is hated. We want to feel good and to be patted on the back constantly. Hence a shallower populous.

Amazing how upon reading Alessandro, one knows that he is not American. Wonder why?

Dave

On the "we" comment. I take full responsibility for my environment. Much like MCH who I adore and believe he has hit the crux of what is wrong in our society, I believe that you've got to own it. Talking a bunch of smack then distancing yourself when it counts is cowardly. I am an American and a love many aspects of this great nation. We are however shallow people. Loving, engaging, hard working, generous, yet shallow as a people.

Dave, calling people clueless when you disagree with them is not in line with the community spirit we seek here in the Blogcritics environment, so fucking stop it, you cracked pot! lol!!

If you can't make your case without belittling people, it entirely undermines your, er, interesting perspective...

Zedd adoring MCH pretty much tells us we no longer need to take anything she says seriously.

Why someone so radically anti-american would choose to live here is a conundrum, but I guess it explains her ignorant elitism to some degree. She ought to get out and meet some real Americans. She might be surprised.

Lumpy

Aaaaah yes! Shallow statement produced for evidence. I don't know whether to thank you or to sigh or weep. I know, you don't get what I'm saying..... I guess I'll sigh..... SIGH!!

I have stated just how great I think this nation is, being clear in what I admire about it. Naming far more things that are great about it than not.

You in your littleness would only pick up on what I consider to be the negative as I engaged in an act of self evaluation, and ride that. You didn't think this through. You just went with the SHALLOW "America, love it or leave it" mantra, which makes no sense. Without self examination, you cant improve.

Sorry bud America is not perfect. Put the gun down from your temple. We should be working towards being a more perfect union but some SHALLOW people stifle that process by not wanting us to improve, wanting to sing our own praises regardless of what.

Also, I am just as much of an American as you. SORRY.

"We actually have disdain towards intellectuals in this country. Academia is loathed. In other words having a real grasp of cause and affect for social phenomena is hated."

Zedd, this wasn't always true in your country. Eggheads (now known as nerds) always got serious ribbing, but academics were always respected. When academia fell into the hands of the juvenile left - the now aging hippies who have no tolerance for the free speech they once demanded as children, who fail people for not having the right "community attitude" to pull a phrase out the air, and who criticize people with the same politeness as a woman with ravenous wings and a nasty caw, just to pull an example out of the air, they are loathed by the average Joe - and by a lot of the not so average Joes in America. They have earned the loathing they get.

On another thread, I've seen your unstable grasp of cause and effect with so simple a subject as history. There, you repeated the patriotic drivel one finds in a history book for children. And you repeated it nauseam (sp?). How do you differ from those average Joes you excoriate, my dear?

Escuse me, underachievers: The only REAL Americans are Native Americans--like myself.

Interesting how many of us choose to live in Canada and Mexico....Just might have to do with the fetid stench of genocide, still rancidly rampant on this site.

Ruvy

I agree that in the past we have had a different relationship with eggheads.

What has changed actually are not the eggheads as much as society.

In the past, the learned were revered because we didn't have access to information as we do now. Also the learned placated the pubic. Many elixirs (physical and intellectual) were administered in order to ease the public knowing that the truth would be difficult to swallow.

After WWII as we know, Hollywood became king and framed our collective unconsciousness. Those beautiful MGM movies about us and our greatness, happy endings, cowboys (us) vs indians (not us) formed our views of the world.

What academia does is seek and evaluate reality. They discovered that "savages" weren't savage and that our myths weren't so different than other people's myths. They discovered that we weren't good and that we had contributed to a lot of suffering and they delved into that. We didn't like it.

Coming from insulated subcultures in our past to a world where difference isn't bad was difficult and still is. Social Scientist were thought to be bad. They wanted to shatter our cowboys vs indians views and that was unAmerican. Hence the views that you have.

On my interpretation of history, your explanations of the obvious which I chose not to deal with or skated quickly passed revealed your wrong assumptions about what I understood. You would be surprised to realise that I think that it is you with your sequential knowledge of events that doesn't have a grasp of what the sequences reveal; the depth beyond the dates.

However, my point is not that nonAmericans know everything, my point is about the shallowness, lack of depth that we possess because of the world view that we have adopted.

Ruvy

I agree that in the past we have had a different relationship with eggheads.

What has changed actually are not the eggheads as much as society.

In the past, the learned were revered because we didn't have access to information as we do now. Also the learned placated the pubic. Many elixirs (physical and intellectual) were administered in order to ease the public knowing that the truth would be difficult to swallow.

After WWII as we know, Hollywood became king and framed our collective unconsciousness. Those beautiful MGM movies about us and our greatness, happy endings, cowboys (us) vs indians (not us) formed our views of the world.

What academia does is seek and evaluate reality. They discovered that "savages" weren't savage and that our myths weren't so different than other people's myths. They discovered that we weren't good and that we had contributed to a lot of suffering and they delved into that. We didn't like it.

Coming from insulated subcultures in our past to a world where difference isn't bad was difficult and still is. Social Scientist were thought to be bad. They wanted to shatter our cowboys vs indians views and that was unAmerican. Hence the views that you have.

On my interpretation of history, your explanations of the obvious which I chose not to deal with or skated quickly passed revealed your wrong assumptions about what I understood. You would be surprised to realise that I think that it is you with your sequential knowledge of events that doesn't have a grasp of what the sequences reveal; the depth beyond the dates.

However, my point is not that nonAmericans know everything, my point is about the shallowness, lack of depth that we possess because of the world view that we have adopted.

Excuse me, again: We have never "revered" eggheads.

The most obvious case in point was Adlai Stevenson, the Democratic party's presidential candidate in 1950 and 1956. He didn't win--not because Ike was such a great candidate, but because Stevenson was not to be trusted because he was seen as an intellectual.

It probably didn't help that he was pretty close to bald and his head was actually shaped like an egg....

Excuse me, underachievers: The only REAL Americans are Native Americans--like myself.

Interesting how many of us choose to live in Canada and Mexico....Just might have to do with the fetid stench of genocide, still rancidly rampant on this site.

Marthe, I would suggest "first Americans" rather than "native" Americans. To my knowledge NO humans are native to this continent. Your ancestors likely journeyed over the Bering Land Bridge when it still connected Alaska with Siberia. How did FDR phrase it when he spoke to the Daughters of the American Revolution seven decades ago - "welcome immigrant."

The fetid stench of genocide is found all over the planet, except perhaps in New Zealand (but don't quote me on that - to my knowledge, there was a mysterious race that lived there before the Maori arrived, and this race killed off most of a giant wingless bird there, the moa).

There hasn't been genocide here since the Crusaders were driven from these shores by the Turks. Bu scratch under the surface, and the fetid stench of genocide arises from its depths here too. The Romans, and their successors, the Byzantines, shed much Jewish blood for six centuries, until the Arabs drove them out.

OH, by the way, I fixed your spelling in quoting your comment: you're welcome.

"I'd bet I've travelled to more other countries than you have, and the average joe in every one of them is just as clueless as the average joe in America."

Same here. I agree. Zedd, it's a specious argument you put forth. I have bumped into some winners in Europe and the streets of Canada and Newfoundland*. Clueless.

Hey, Chicomecoatl (MR); yeah, Canada treated the Natives real well...oi. MR is an over-achieving Aztec goddess. I bow...

*To the people of Newfoundland - easily the most beautiful and friendly province in the Dominion: I know that you have had your fair share of being butt ends to jokes and for this all I can say is: Once there was a Newfie driving to Montreal. Along the way, the road sign read "Montreal Left." Dejected, the Newfie turned his car around and headed back home.

Whoa!

I digress.

Alessandro,

Like I said, you have NO IDEA. We will let this go......

Ruvy

The word native refers to the first inhabitants. They were the first inhabitants. If we follow your reasoning, only Africans are native to that continent because everyone else came from there according to the science that we know so far.

"Marthe, I would suggest "first Americans" rather than "native" Americans. To my knowledge NO humans are native to this continent."

Quoted for Truth.

Jared Diamond places the initial colonization of Mesoamerica from Asia at around or before 11,000 B.C.

Sigh!

Zedd, spare me.

A few things you have written have my eyebrows raised but I refrain from using such presumptuous language. Best to engage than dismiss someone...

And you are flat out wrong on this one.

Which one of you comment editors removed my comment responding to Zedd#79 and why? Stop trying to be the polical correct police and what did I say to be edited. I think I know, maybe the lesbo word. You let bat shit fly all over the place. Think it,s time for you guys to 86 me from BC because as sure as shit stinks I dont change. Your choice and I'll miss the BC litter box.

Zedd - perhaps it would help if you told us where you encountered a knowledgeable and enlightened citizenry...

and sr - don't get your panties all in a twist...Chris doesn't seem to mind cleaning up after you

Let me amend the above. Let's just say we come from different backgrounds and experiences.

"Marthe, I would suggest "first Americans" rather than "native" Americans. To my knowledge NO humans are native to this continent."
- by Ruvy, regurgitated by Clavnalle

I think 12,000 years of occupation qualifies for "native"...

troll

You are really being defensive unnecessarily.

What is strange is that what I have stated is nothing new or unheard of. You've heard it before, spouted by foreigners and Americans alike.

Perhaps you should figure out why people say this instead of getting mad because they say it.

Alessandro

With all due respect, you don't live here. What else can I say. Having communicated with you on several topics, I respect your reasoning skills and i am telling you that you would be shocked. You saying that you would not is fine. I responded by saying that you just have no idea how bad it is. I don't see anything insulting or condescending about that.

Did it not surprise you that I asked you if you were from here the first time we conversed? Why did I and why was I right? Could I have a certain insight in this matter?

Also, I am confused as to why it is that America can not have an area that we are not strong in. Why is that so shocking and problematic for you? We have many strengths. This is not one. In the past 50 or so years we have not been good stewards of our status as top dog. The past 20 years have been even more of a decline....

Why is acknowledging that so horrible? How do we fix it if we don't face it.

I've grown up here and talk to immigrants of all shades, cultures. You would be among the chorus of those who sing the same song "geeez pick up a book or something".

"I think 12,000 years of occupation qualifies for "native"..."

But, since you're not an anthropologist (or even a college graduate), what you think counts for zero against the scholarship of Professor Diamond.

Clavnalle

Oh, and BTW 11,000 plus 2,000 is 13,000, emmy.

Did you ever get that GED?

You love birds.

Zedd - you interpret a straight forward question as defensiveness and anger...proving once again that we speak different languages together

The word native refers to the first inhabitants. They were the first inhabitants. If we follow your reasoning, only Africans are native to that continent because everyone else came from there according to the science that we know so far.

Zedd,

The word native refers not to who is first, but who is BORN in a place. With respect to the Republic of South Africa, you are a native. With respect to America, you are an immigrant. Logic dictates that you lived in South Africa first, as you were born there.

I, like Marthe Raymond, am a native of the united States. Here, I'm an immigrant. So are my children. G-d willing, my grandchildren will be natives.

The phrase "Native American" is a euphemism for what folks living in the USA used to call "Indians". But as euphemisms go, it is inaccurate. If I must use these damned euphemisms, I prefer that they at least be accurate, instead of politically charged, as is "Native American".

Clavos is just envious because someone did get that GED he keeps failing the exam for.

Why not just call cockroaches the Real Americans, Real Europeans, Real Asians, Real Oceanicos and Real Asians and let it go at that? Happily, our genocidal species will soon be history.

Good riddance. But especially to the rednecks.

Ruvy

The connotation that the word native is used in is to indicate, an aboriginal connection.

If you said you were a Native American no one would think you were a Jewish guy. You are an American native, YES, but you are not a Native American. That phrase HAS a meaning.

Let MR call HERSELF what she wants to call herself.

Hey why don't we argue with the next guy whose last name is Johnson. Lets lecture him on why his Dad's name is not John.

troll

I was trying not to say that your question was petty and childish and would veer the discussion to a tit for tat one-upmanship that I am not comfortable participating in with you actually. Do forgive, I get embarrassed easily and sometimes will go around things so as not to be too rude.

Also your request did reveal a defensive stance. Surely you aren't participating in a study to evaluate the depth of discourse by nation. You were simply waiting to say naaah-uh-haaaa in some way or another.

Let it go bud.....

well actually Zedd I thought a comparison based on your experiences might progress the 'debate' from the rut of 'Americans are comparatively shallow' ...no they aren't...yes they are...no they aren't

that said I acquiesce to your request to 'let it go'

and don't worry about being rude when you address me

Zedd, with all do respect - I know. I am an impartial and well-informed observer of America - again, thanks to my fortune of having friends and family in several states.

I have encountered those you describe but you seem all too ready to go with that painting. Lord, I can assure the comments about Canada have been truly remarkable. Put it you another way, can you build a sure model that stipulates other nations are not just as shallow or ignorant? You can't.

I have heard just as many ridiculous comments made about America in my own country as well as abroad. My point is to merely suggest that it is an impossble game to claim a society is "shallow." We can apply this to many countries.

While I agree to a certain extent on what you are saying, I do feel there is another side that merits consideration.

Again, I get what you're saying. I have seen this. But I am not prepared to go to the lengths you go. That's all.

And by the way, do I have a choice? All the fun threads deal with America. I write about Canada but no one gives a rat's ass - I'm not sure I even do sometimes. Besides, I've seen you comment on countries you're not a citizen of. America is a noble and brilliant experience that intoxicates and transcends nationality sometimes. Americans should be proud. It's my admiration for it that keeps me involved.

Ok. My French speaking neighbours are beginning to look at me funny waving Old Glory as a type. So I'll stop here.

Alessandro

We will have to let this discussion go because I believe that it is neither all that important to you nor is it to me.

Just as we can place this nation on a hierarchical scale for wealth or military might, we can also place it on a scale for various attitudes. Americans as individuals are generous monetarily. Much more so than all other people of the world. Just as we can say Los Angeles is, well, shallow compared to most other cities in the country, while I am sure that there are thousands of deep thinking individuals in LA but it falls high on the airhead scale comparatively speaking. We can say America lacks depth compared to a lot of countries in the world. That is all.

Dave, first I found a typo: fer years: Should be "for years?" Anyway, who ever listened to the components of democracy--i.e., the people?

There is nothing new in your article, except the fact that the UN continues to get away with stuff, just like Don Imus did, fer years...I mean for years. In his diatribe against all things black or otherwise not Anglo-Saxon.

If you can move the UN-ers by your arguments then perhaps you should run for office. Otherwise the UN is a no-win for the globe.

Heloise

Zedd, it's not all that important. This is true.

I'll let you have the final word. Even though...aw, forget it.

troll

Glad you are back.



Alessandro

Thank you for allowing me to be petty :o)

My point is to merely suggest that it is an impossble game to claim a society is "shallow." We can apply this to many countries.

More than that, Alessandro. Society as a whole can be horribly shallow and in any country of reasonable size there can still be an intellectual, educated and leadership class which is anything but shallow or ill-informed. Hundreds of thousands of Americans have lived abroad and attended universities in other countries and speak foreign languages, notwithstanding the fact that most have done none of those things.

Like I said before, we're not generally appointing beet farmers and auto mechanics to be Secretary of State or UN Ambassador.

Dave

BTW, I just got back from Canada, and interestingly I found the shopkeepers and townsfolk of Nova Scotia virtually indistinguishable from Americans in similar walks of life. After listening to Zedd I expected them all to be natural philosophers possessed of a special aura of intellectualism, but strangely that was not the case.

I did have a nice conversation with a schoolteacher from Portland on the boat, however, and despite just being a Kindergarten teacher and an average American she had some rather astute opinions on US politics and foreign policy. Go figure.

Dave

An intelligent American???

Obviously an aberration...

Dave,

Let it go........ Its over. I made my point. You never seemed to grasp what I meant by shallow.

You sort of made yours.

Regardless, its over....... You are not convinced, I certainly am not... move on.

Surely you don't believe we excel in everything.

BTW beet farmers and mechanics can be quite profound.

"If you said you were a Native American no one would think you were a Jewish guy. You are an American native, YES, but you are not a Native American. That phrase HAS a meaning.

There is that uncertain grasp of history and geography again. By the way, you need reading glasses. I never said I was an American native. I said I was a native of the United States - this is very different from an American native. America is a big place stretching from Alaska down to Tierra del Fuego. The United States is a relatively small portion of that big place.

Sorry, Zedd, I don't give out points for "you know what I meant."

Just a side note to Marthe - even the damned rats and cockroaches are immigrants. The rats are from Norway and the cockroaches from Germany.

And I'm a tad more optimistic than you. Whatever changes the Mayan calendar - or even out own genocidal tendencies - seem to imply are changes we'll get through.

You are a LOT more optimistic than anyone else. And without any reason to be so.

"BTW, I just got back from Canada..."
- Vox Nalle

So who'd you put in charge of killing the stray dogs behind your fortified compound while you were away?

MCH,

Isn't that Michael Vick's job?

Ruvy,

If you are a native of the United States, you are a native of America. The US is in the Americas. Is it me?

You are really good at remembering data, but it is useless if you cant extrapolate from that data. You see, history is just what people like you and I did years earlier. Its not holy or sacred. What is significant is how it affects humanity over time and what lessons we learn from it.

You studied History (what happened), I studied Sociology (why it happen(s)(ed) and what it means to us). We think differently. Your way of thinking is not better AND you know full well that I am not dense (I suppose that was some sort of male defensive statement thingy.... sorry to say but I got embarrassed for you). I consider your reasoning to be weak but I am giving you a chance to change my mind AND I may learn something.

allesandro;
LOL!! Only if Populi doesn't get jealous missing out on the fun...

Vox Populi - agent provocateur and man of mystery...I miss him

I just wanted yo re-iterate these points since we are at comment 130- something...

1. Iran should be prevented from destroying this country; if that means nuking Tehran, that is fine with me.
2. The UN personnel - all of them world wide - should be ditched into the deepest of the Atlantic trenches for all the use they are. The UN Building should be made a homeless shelter.
3. Genocide has not been stopped by the UN - and humanity has learned NOTHING from the genocides perpetrated by the Romans 2,000 years ago here, the Germans in the 1940's, Stalin over the course of his dictatorship in Russia, and Mao Tze Tung over the course of his dictatorship of China. Mao's Little Red Book was appropriately name. The bastard's hands were covered in blood.

Ruvy - one day I'll figure out how a decent man can advocate/accept mass destruction

Ruvy - one day I'll figure out how a decent man can advocate/accept mass destruction.

I want my potential killers to die before what they do here gets a lot worse.

I posted this on Jewish Indy:

June 26, 2007

Thanks to Paolo Porsia who forwarded this item.

From where we live in Ma'aleh Levona, you can see the Tel Aviv skyline, the mountains in Jordan, and on a really clear day, Mt. Hermon on the northern border. In short, everything is kinda close, and the view here drives that point home. The largest concentration of Jews in Israel is in and around Tel Aviv, going north and east. It is reasonable to assume that in any missile war, Tel Aviv will be a major target, as would Hadera and Ashkelon.

According to Barry Chamish, an investigative reporter, hitting all three sites might cripple communications, strip the country of its electric supply and effectively knock out the country's command and control system. This would ground the air force. The air force is what provides the backbone of home defense, and is the force that allows the IDF to carry a war to the enemy. If Haifa is attacked, the fleet would probably crippled. An additional target would be western Jerusalem, where the Knesset (parliament) and major government offices are located.

In a war based on a missile assault, the one part of the country that would not be under heavy assault from the air would be Judea and Samaria. We live in Samaria. In the event of such a war, we might be cut off from the electric grid, but there is an adequate ground-water supply to keep us going, and food growing in the area.

Whether war breaks out or not due to this movement of weaponry, these are the strategic facts on the ground.


Iran moves missiles to Syria
Avionews
Tehran, Iran - Implemented the agreement of 2005
(WAPA) - A United Nations official in Lebanon announced that Iran is about to move to Syria dozens of medium-range missiles Shahab-3 and Scud B and C. The purpose is creating a missile system to be used in case of attacks to nuclear installations, and available in any case for military actions.

The fact that Syria will host Iranian missiles is due to the mutual defence agreement signed in 2005 by Tehran and Damascus. Such agreement was implemented last month on decision of the Iranian Supreme Council chaired by Akbar Hasshemi Rafsanjani.

Also, a team of engineers has been sent to Syria to train the local army for the missile system's use. In addiction, it seems that Iran has made a similar agreement with Sudan.

Such news, along with the fact that Russia sold Syria some high-tech combat airplanes, have created a considerable apprehension for many Countries, especially Israel. (Avionews)
(00019) 070626182419-1076030 (World Aeronautical Press Agency - 2007-06-26 06:24 pm)

Surely you don't believe we excel in everything.

I think that out of 300 million people we can FIND someone who excels at anything.

BTW beet farmers and mechanics can be quite profound.

So ultimately you do, in fact, agree with me.

Dave

So who'd you put in charge of killing the stray dogs behind your fortified compound while you were away?

The pool guy.

Dave

The pool guy. And who whould thunk it be old sr. At $25.00 per hr I can buy another gun.

(Dave - are you near the flooding - ?)

We're near it, but not in the hardest hit area. Had some water in our kitchen, but it appears to be under control.

Dave

"At $25.00 per hr I can buy another gun."

Knowing ol' Populi, it's probably more like $6 an hr.

If that's true I just might buy the ammo first. What do you suggest MCH and which came first, the gun or the ammo?