What's that quote? "A government that provides its citizens with all the necessities of life can just as easily take them all away" or something like that.

It's interesting that some on the left want to legalize heroin, but want to criminalize Big Macs. They want smokers banned from public areas, but want terrorists in Gitmo freed.

Gawd help us all...

Yep, don't you love those "liberals" of the nancy-boy/whiney-girl persuasion who cough and splutter histrionically 10 metres UPWIND of a smoker, but have forgotten the clouds of dust kicked up over New York by those two falling sckyscrapers with 3000 people trapped inside.

Your're right, RJ, even though I don't agree with 99.8 per cent of your politics. God 'elp us, indeed. If you guys lose the plot, we're all well and truly fu.ked.

EDITORS

I DID MY TIME...LET ME BACK IN...

JOM

EDITORS

I DID MY TIME...LET ME BACK IN...

JOM

JOM/Fred: It's like this - you can debate ideas as much as you like. Nobody wants to censor ideas or prevent debate. On the other hand, attacking people you disagree with is simply tedious.

If you seriously believe that you can understand and follow, as Eric Olsen put it, that we expect a level of civility and respect in the way you voice your disagreement, there is no problem.

How about it?

Christopher - you BANNED JOM???!!! GOOD JOB-!!! Probably the best decision you ever made. He won't change; he's a 12-year-old potty-mounthed moron in the body of a 46-year-old man who should know better. Leave him out in the cold where he belongs, & good riddance.

What did he say/do that finally tore the envelope?

but nancy... jom makes a better argument for liberalism than any liberal could ever make! i mean, his silly nonsense to valid point ratio is like 50:1, but... as long as he behaves himself (to a degree, or else he wouldn't be jom, now would he?), banning someone is never the best option.

This will be banned which is just. However before our intrusted editors see it you will see it first. So hear it goes. Im watching my stop watch. In the begining their were decusting fat people. Just went to Google to find out things about decusting fat people. What do I get from Google. Did you mean decorating. What the fuck. If I should look up tea cups Im sure they would say did you mean tea bags. No you dumbfucks I was looking for decusting fat tea bags decorated with with fat people. Get me the hell out of hear.

LOL. Kudos to Stinkey aka SR for this outstanding contribution to the genre of stream-of-consciousness literature.

Looked mor like stream-of-unconsciousness to me...

But seriously, John...

You've hit the nail on the head here. I had the same thought as I was reading, and of course you confirmed it. More ridiculousness, more wasted taxpayer dollars, more bureaucracy, more ineptitude, more bullshit. Sigh...and so it goes...

Oh, and Stan #2:

"Nancy boys and whiney girls"--love it!

Stinkey is sr. Are you kidding me. I thought sr was El Zorro or Spider man. Damn, you learn something new each day.

SR was actually the brand of toothpaste I used as a kid. My mother would tell me "Brush your teeth, or your breath will be Stinkey."

If Stinkey and sr are not the same person, how come you never see both of them together on the same thread?

Hmmm...

Your Macleans are showing

John,

This is another example waisted emotions, juvenile rants about topics that are unconsidered because of an inability to process large issues. Come on this is teenage indignation. A voicing of disdain out of "supposed to" more than "should". Did you really think about this?

There is a major disconnect in your article. You never stated what the agency is supposed to accomplish and what you object to in their goals.

Are you against a government that is informed about its populous?

Are you against a government that informs its people?

Are you against a government that provides health services so that its populous can pursue happiness?

What is your beef?

You want the government to protect us from China so that we are still the number one power in 30yrs but you don't care if we implode from within; dying from all sorts of diseases that come from ignorance, self inflicted or not? If our getting fat, lazy and diseased is destructive and impedes our ability to compete in the future should our government not look at that as a security issue?

Should we not stop health epidemics? HIV/AIDS mostly occurs because of personal negligence. So do most STDs. Should the government not have taken steps to inform the public about such matters?

Obesity contributes to, hypertension, diabetes, heart attacks, many of the top killers in this nation. It is occurring at epidemic levels. Smoking contributes to cancer and all sorts of lung diseases. You suggest that the entities that organize us and unite us as a people not concern themselves with these challenges BUT spend billions fighting people all over the world who are suspected of wanting to kill us?

Its childish thinking in my opinion. At some point adhering to an ideology becomes crippling if it is done at the expense of reason.

Remember, some guy made up your ideology, it wasn't written by God as a way for humans to exist. Its just some guy(s) who are just like you who come up with those notions. They made it all up John. Choose practicality not ideology.

"In a universal health care system, the government and society at large have a vested interest in how you live your life - what you eat, how much you workout, your drinking and smoking habits, and so on. You're spending their money, after all."


Not only the government, but other citizens will have a vested interest in your health as they will be forced to subsidize it. That means if I'm walking by Mcdonalds and I see some fat fuck on his sixth cheeseburger I would be perfectly in the right to run into Mcdonalds, slap the cheeseburger out of his pudgy hands and say " what's wrong with you you fat fuck, don't you know that I'd like to take a vacation this year but I can't because I'm paying more in taxes for this bogus health care system that pays for lardasses like you to get all kinds of health care that stems from your inability or unwillingness to make healthy responsible lifestyle choices" and then kick him in the groin so he won't soon forget our little conversation.


I think we can all agree that a civilized society should have safety measures for those who become very sick or injured through no fault of their own. However a completely socialized system of health care, as with all socialist ideas, makes the responsible subsidize the lazym apathetic and stupid. I aint havin any of that!

Arch, I understand your ideas on all this but my experience is that if it is a universal free (or near-free) health care system that conscripts private industry into the picture as well, the balance is great. You end up with a safety net for people who can't afford private fund care, and those who take private care on top of their medicare contribution get a tax rebate. High earners who choose not to top up with a private fund pay a Medicare levy.

You are not really wholly subsidising others, because you get all the benefits as well. Example: I had some kidney operations a couple of years back. I ended up $156 out of pocket in total after Medicare paid my bills, which I then claimed back through my private health fund. I ended up owing nil/nada for a long series of operations, tests, the works. My wife was hospitalised a few years ago for a couple of extended periods and we paid nothing up front.

It works well, probably because there's plenty of private input and a lot of work between govt and private sector researchers funded in concert by both.

What doesn't work is Soviet-style stuff, or even worse - Britain's National Health system ...

Universal free care can work and can be of good quality if it's done in concert with the private sector.

STM-

That kinda sounds like Medicaid which we've had for some time now... how's that working out?

Not very well considering the 40ish mil supposed uninsured people in the US.

So Medicaid was supposed to provide this safety net for the poor, and it's failed, so we're going to give the same people a WHOLE lot more money and subject the entire population under their bureaucracy and hope for a better result?

How's that work?

The reason why Medicaid is a failure, as you consider it John is because the line for qualification is too low.

Just raise the bar to cover the 40 million uninsured people. I know, because I am one of them. I am self-employed and work from home. If I wanted insurance, Blue Shield will give it to me at 500 bucks a month (I'm a healthy, non-smoking male). I can't afford that, yet I make too much for Medicaid, so I have nothing.

Just raise Medicaid's level at which they accept people, that's all it takes to cover the 40 million.

(although I am in favor of universal health care because that is the only method that doesn't pit profits against health. When it is left up to the marketplace/insurance companies to do healthcare, profits override health).

Back to the topic of obesity in this country, we need to quit subsidizing corn. Cut out high fructose corn syrup that is in every product from energy drinks to snacks to cereals. And you will greatly cut down on the number of overweight people in this country.

"Back to the topic of obesity in this country, we need to quit subsidizing corn. Cut out high fructose corn syrup that is in every product from energy drinks to snacks to cereals. And you will greatly cut down on the number of overweight people in this country."

Corn syrup isn't a magic bullet Steve. We all need to do more to get more exercise and consume less.......... period. You ever seen one of those qizzes where they compare the average serving size and nutriotional value of today's meals to the meals we ate 30 years ago? Through food marketing we truly have become a supersized nation on it's way to destroying our health as we sit on our computers, play our video games and otherwise find pursuits that allow us to remain fat lazy slobs rather than break a sweat each and every day.

Correct, I don't mean to imply that we just take the one step. I think it is one of the main culprits though.

I have cut all high fructose corn syrup products out of this household and not only is my stomach getting flatter, but I have more energy for longer periods of the day too, instead of little bursts of energy.

You ever seen one of those qizzes where they compare the average serving size and nutriotional value of today's meals to the meals we ate 30 years ago?

There's no doubt that todays' food is unhealthy, fast food, snacks, soda and all that, but I haven't seen anything comparing meals to meals of the past.

The meals of the past that I am familiar with, being from the midwest, includes cooking in lard or bacon grease, using real butter, putting heaps of gravy on things, and what man of the household didn't always have a second helping of his wife's cooking?

I don't think we ate much healthier in the past (I could be wrong), but I think we just ate different bad foods. Foods that clogged arteries rather than putting on fatty tissue for example.

Also in the past, I think people did more physical work and in todays environment, more people do work sitting at the computer or in a cubicle. So that bacon grease or gravy was burnt up in the past, and foods aren't today.

I have cut all high fructose corn syrup products out of this household and not only is my stomach getting flatter, but I have more energy for longer periods of the day too, instead of little bursts of energy."


How have you managed to do that? Isn't high fructose corn syrup in almost everything? What do you eat?

I had to switch to a diabetic diet for various health reasons some years ago, which meant almost zero commercially prepared foods, learning to cook from scratch, & I lost 15 lbs just from what I DIDN'T put in the food, plus actually using portion control. Any non-American can tell you: in the US, portions are 3-4X what they are anywhere else. American-made foods (including chain foods like Mickey D's, etc.) are among the fattiest, saltiest, sugariest, most chemically-saturated in the world. Consider the plight of the Japanese: until about 30 years ago, heart disease & obesity were almost unknown. Then McDonalds & its fellows moved in. Today, Japan's incidence of obesity, heart-related diseases, & other adverse health conditions formerly rare has skyrocketed.

Complicating this is that few Americans work or walk the way the rest of the world does. Everyone else walks or uses public transportation (which requires a modicum of walking) or bikes a helluva lot more than we do. US? We're wedded to our cars, we live in them, as much as possible.

In the past month I've gained several pounds back, because I can't walk around/move like I did before my accident, altho I'm working on fixing that.

I fear what a poster on another thread once said is true: Americans are fat because we're gluttonous & lazy. No one wants to (or claims they have time to) cook or exercise.

As for East Indian food, Zedd & STM are right, it's great - as long as it's not soaked in ghi.

John: Everyone pays a levy here in their tax (from a nominal amount for the lower paid, to a higher amount for those on higher incomes), but the percentage is pretty close to equal and to be honest, it's more than reasonable and I don't even notice mine. On top of that, if you earn over a certain amount a year, say $150,000 for argument's sake, and you choose not to have private cover as well, you pay a $2000 a year levy on top of it. For that, you get full, good-quality medical and hospital care, with few out-of-pocket costs. The government simply has become the main fee provider. No one pays any medical fees here, and many family doctors bulk-bill the government rather than charge an up-front fee that you can claim back.

However, it's a good idea to add in the private cover and you get a tax break too. I'm a high-income earner, but with the same kinds of responsibilities as everyone else - so out-of-pocket costs are always a burden. Like I say, I had three recent hospitalisations and had nothing pay, the government having paid my doctors and my fund making up the few hundred bucks that would have been the out-of-pocket-stuff for each.

It's become the third rail of politics here, a bit like the mortgage interest payments tax break is in the US - any government of either persuasion tampering with it risks getting the flick pass. I guess we are different to Americans in that we view universal health care as our right, not a privelege. As a right, it's pretty damn good never having to stress about getting sick.

I have an American mate here who was worried about what he thought would be a British-style universal health care system and who recentlt had a hospitalisation and is raving about how well it all works. It's possible to do this equitably in the US, too. No jobs were lost in the health funds many years ago when we got this, either - it actually created work, as they made their packages more attractive to cover more things - even alternative treatments like chiropractic, yoga, gym memberships, you name it.

The only problem I can see in regard to the US would be the bureaucracy needed. This is a country of only 20 million, so administering such a scheme is not as difficult as it would be over there.

Still, I have a view on many of these things. Just because it doesn't exist in America, doesn't mean a) it's bad, or b) that it doesn't work.

Quite clearly, as we've shown to ourselves, it works if not perfectly, then as close as you'll get.

Nancy said: I fear what a poster on another thread once said is true: Americans are fat because we're gluttonous & lazy.

I'm reminded of an anecdote Bill Bryson tells in one of his books about his experiences of returning to live in the US after many years of exile. He describes watching a car pull up outside a store and the driver get out, go into the store, make a purchase, come back out, get back into the car, drive a few feet to the next store, get out again and go inside.

An extreme example of course, but where I live it's common for people to drive around a parking lot for hours trying to find a spot close to the store, then later drive across the parking lot to get closer to the other stores they want to visit.

Sheesh. And we wonder why gas is so expensive...! :-)

Yes, I had a similar experience with a Sydney fella originally from California when I went over there on a surf visit while he was spending a year with his family.

One morning, before going to the beach, we decided to go early to the shops to get some stuff for breakfast.

I suggested we walk, as it was only 10 minutes by foot.

He said, "Are you kidding, no one walks here. This is LA. People think you're weird if you walk around ... the only people who walk are people who don't have a car, or are looking for one to steal."

I was once stopped by the police in LA whilst out walking. They thought it suspicious behaviour until realising I was visiting from Britain! By the way, some US police are amongst the most aggressive and controlling I have ever encountered.

Shortly after I moved to the US I was out walking at night. It was an isolated street with farmland on all sides and there was no-one else about. A solitary female in a Jeep drove past me, stopped, u-turned and asked if I wanted a lift!

Ah, walking. That curious method of propulsion which involves swinging your lower appendages back and forth, and a distinct absence of large metal and glass boxes that go vroom. I wonder sometimes if Americans even know what their legs are for.

In the big cities on the east coast, even Miami, people do walk a lot - especially New York. Sydneysiders love to walk but I don't think I've ever walked as much as I did in Manhattan, even more than in London as it's so easy in London to just hop the bus or get on the snake, and the huge scale of the city can leave one a bit confused sometimes. But NYC is all neatly set out and easy to navigate.

If you don't walk in New York, you miss out ... there's so much going on.

Whereas in LA, all the action is taking place in cars and shopping malls. Who walks around downtown LA these days, apart from derros?

Yep, New York and San Fran are different. (Can't speak for Miami as I've only ever been to the airport, in which you need a sodding car just to get from one terminal to another.) Nobody has a car there because (a) there's excellent public transport (b) there's nowhere to park and (c) it takes so long to drive anywhere that by the time you get where you're going you might as well have walked.

My experience of Sydney is that outside the CBD it's not really a walking city, unless for the pleasure of hiking the coast or stuff like that.

Derro = derelict/bum - correct? I know my Aussie slang!

"I was once stopped by the police in LA whilst out walking. They thought it suspicious behaviour until realising I was visiting from Britain! By the way, some US police are amongst the most aggressive and controlling I have ever encountered."

You would be aggressive too, if you were a policeman in Los Angeles...

People walk a lot in Sydney, DD. Any weekend you can be out in places like Balmain, Bondi, Newtown, Manly Beach or the harbourfront and there are people walking everywhere. Obviously, given the scale of the city, it's cars and public transport weekdays and not that many people walk to work except those who live in town or close to. Lots of people walk over the bridge to work, BTW. I never did, I used to catch the train from Milsons Point because I'm a lazy bastard. The luckiest are those who catch ferries to work. That's the way to travel in Sydney.

I agree with RJ, if I was a cop in LA, I'd be aggresive. In most other places in the US, though, apart from Sherriff's Officers, I've found them to be really helpful and polite. It's nice to be called sir. You have to admit guys, on the politness scale, Americans rate pretty highly.

I did, however, have a run in with some Sheriff's Officers in the New Mexico/Mexico border who pulled me over not far from El Paso and gave me a really good grilling.

It wasn't the first time it had happened, and I was getting a bit peeved and it probably didn't help when they asked if I was a US citizen and I said, "No mate, but seriously, do I look like a fu.king Mexican?" I mean, I'm a surfer with sun bleached blond hair and a suburned nose. I also had surfboards on the roof and Virginia licence plates. What were they thinking?? Twice, that happened. That was in the early 80s, so they at least on the ball back the, I suppose.

It's not impossible though that while they were questioning the Aussie surfie who was perfectly happy with his own country, three truckloads of illegal immigrants drove by.

In my experience, being aggressive or bossy towards people without just cause is a surefire way to make them aggressive too.

If you don't believe, you can go fuck yourselves, you bastards. Especially you two, the septic and the convict!

;-)

Yes, NYC is definitely a walker's town. I house-sat there a few years ago for almost 2 months, & it astonished me how few people in the hi-rise I was in owned a car at all. I either walked everywhere (& lost 18 lbs doing it, too, despite all the yummy NYC food) or took public transit, which in itself required considerable walking, either to get to, or to negotiate. It would seem that in the US, unless you live actually IN a city, like NYC, or Boston, or Philadelphia, nothing is built that enables people to walk anymore. In the tiny town I grew up in, in New England, I could walk, bike, or sail my little sunfish to the grocery store to do errands for my mom. At my grandmother's, in rural NH, I would walk every day down to the center of town & back - only a couple of miles both ways, total, through woods & past farms, but the traffic was light & times were different. The last time I was up there, now I'd have to have a car to get to the nearest grocery store, etc. because it's just a tad too far to walk comfortably unless one is used to distance walking & in good condition; and the traffic is a lot worse, so even if I were inclined to walk, it would be too dangerous - not to mention (if I were a kid) the danger from 2-legged predators. From what I can tell, the developers planned & built it that way, catering to nothing but Mall Culture & areas filled with McMansions, all requiring vast parcels of space. I suspect even the predator problem is a function of the increased impersonality of the bulk of current US building practices, in that people aren't living close enough to connect with each other any more, which in turn makes it easier for those so inclined to unleash their nastier natures & indulge in antisocial behavior they wouldn't if they were under more constant & closer scrutiny.

Which brings me to a non-sequitur question that crops up when I consider walking these days: my neighborhood has sidewalks. So how come the damned joggers never use them, but insist on jogging in the streets, even when they have the sidewalks to themselves?

The second half of this is that in the US, restaurants compete with each other as to which can serve the biggest portions, so that Americans are not only used to gigantic amounts of food to be consumed at one meal, but are now conditioned to think this is the norm.

Check out any nutrition book: a "normal" serving of something like, say, spaghetti is 1/2 cup. 99% of the population in the US, I'd guess, have no concept of what 1/2 cup of anything looks like. Well, I gotta tell ya, it ain't much. A "normal" 3-oz serving of meat should only be about the size of a pack of playing cards - not the size of a baseball diamond. A scoop of ice cream is only the size of a golf ball - NOT a softball or larger. A small potato is the size of a large egg - NOT a brick. A "normal" serving of pasta with sauce is about as much as you can hold in your hand without it slopping over the sides - NOT as much as will fill a 10" plate in a heap without slopping over the sides. A salad is about the same size - fills your hand w/out slopping over - NOT enough to fill a gallon bowl. French fries ... 6-10 are a 'serving' - NOT a bag containing a pound or more.

Actually, the so-called "kids' meals" that the fast food places serve are what the "average/normal" adult serving should actually be, & I've heard that even those are getting bigger because people think they should get their moneys' worth.

Especially you two, the septic and the convict!

Who are you calling septic? I've hardly had to drain any pus today!

So long as you're not draining The Cat from Red Dwarf, you weirdo! :-p

Being a weirdo I can live with. Just as long as I'm not septic, necrotic or a Tory.

Can we not just all get along and fuck ourselves you bastards. Put some soap in your mouth Mr. Rose. We all look up to you as our moral example. Think I will remove my Christ Rose posters off my bathroom wall.

Tourettes, anyone?

Nancy, I think you have just hit on the correct diagnosis for what ails our friend sr.

"We all look up to you as our moral example"

OMG! We are in deep doodoo (or is that doo doo?) :>)

Alas - ! Myself included from time to time. Oh well....

My wife Bertha who weights over 400lbs, no falt of her own. She just likes to eat. Just got her one of those Go Go's so she can drive around the market. The only reason I stay with her is because she is sweet. Her ass is so wide when she sits in my car I cant close the door. I have to use a bunge cord to close it. Last week the bunge cord broke and she fell out onto the road. She was hit by a car behind us however Bertha is ok. I am now being sued because the damage to the car which hit her is a total loss.

Jason's Deli serves a baked potato that is - I'm not exaggerating here - the size of an NFL football. It's also covered in butter, cheese, and sour cream. For under six dollars. Delivered. And delicious.

And ya'll wonder why we Americans are so farking fat! :-/

Rosey: on septics ... Geez, I wonder how many Americans have been absolutely mortified when they find that seppo, the Aussie nickname for them, is actually rhyming slang for Yank and relates to a tank full of you know what.

You should see the hurt look in their eyes when they finally work it out, and how they perk up magnificently when you explain that in Australia, if you're not being insulted, no one likes you (you bastards).

Then it's on for young and old ... they seem to embrace the philosophy quite nicely, just like your own countrymen :)

RJ. My sweet little honey Bertha and Rosie eat at Jason's every day and have one or two of those giant potatoes with a low cal salad and diet soda. Of course they always order extra butter, sour cream and cheese. Maybe the low cal salad help's their figure. After they eat it's shopping around town while the two cute whales sing. Im riding on my Go Go.

Nancy

Those serving sizes make me feel guilty and "hungry". I've got to work my way down... sigh.

Its too hot to walk everywhere in Dallas and everything is spread out. I guess its back to working out once I get back recouperated. Which will be very soon. No more Madre for me. NO MATTER WHAT!!!!

Found this on the AP today. In California a 400LB+ women slams into shoppers at a local market rideing on her electric cart. 2 people died and many injured. She is being held in the country jail however they are still searching for a large bed for her to sleep on and installing a bigger toilet.

Can we start a petition to get her to be Parasite Hilton's cellmate?

She could quote Jack Palance for truth: "I crap bigger than you."

RJ. Sure cant argue with those comments.

What do fat people and pit bulls have in common?