where's moonraven when we need her to reassure us that this is not tragic - ?

Well written article, yet I wonder what the answer is for the people in Venezuela? Non violent activities or radical resistance ? Even a blind man can see that Chevez is taking the country down the slippery slope to a cuban style dictatorship. Of course it is pretty easy for me ,comfortable in the USA , to suggest what the poor and middle class in Venezuela should do!
Viva Freedom!

Well written, Dave.

I agree with troll; it WOULD be interesting to see moonraven try to justify this latest in a long list of Chavez' calculated moves to mold himself into a twenty first century Fidel Castro clone; and Venezuela into another Cuban-style totalitarian dictatorship.

"Bolivarian Republic" indeed...

troll and Clavos: Bite your tongue. Be careful what you wish for because.... I don't even want to finish that sentence.

Well written article, yet I wonder what the answer is for the people in Venezuela? Non violent activities or radical resistance ?

Based on what happened Sunday, the outcome for those who choose resistence is pretty clear, since the police attacked non-violent protestors.

I would imagine that the next step for Chavez would be to expell foreign journalists from the country. He's already silenced their local stringers and affiliates, but if reports keep appearing in international papers as critical as the ones coming out right now about the TV shut-down, he's going to realize he needs to limit the access of the foreign press.

Dave

All this fretting about Chavez when the Bush gang of murdering warmongers are still loose in the White House. My oh my!

Good article Dave,

IMO, For Chavez to be right, all the following have to be wrong.

Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only - no matter how big its membership may be - is no freedom at all. Freedom is always freedom for the man who thinks differently. ROSA LUXEMBURG (1880-1919).

The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits. No beast is more savage than man when possessed with power answerable to his rage. Plutarch [Mestrius Plutarchus] (45-125 A.D.)

Censors are people with secret attractions to various temptations... They are defending themselves under the pretext of defending others, because at heart they fear their own weaknesses. ERNEST JONES (1879-1958).

Thought that is silenced is always rebellious. Majorities, of course, are often mistaken. This is why the silencing of minorities is necessarily dangerous. Criticism and dissent are the indispensable antidote to major delusions. ALAN BARTH, The Loyalty of Free Men, 1951.

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. NOAH CHOMSKY, Guardian, 23 November 1992.

Laws alone cannot secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of tolerance in the entire population. ALBERT EINSTEIN (1879-1955), Out Of My Later Years, 1950.

Whenever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. HEINRICH HEINE (1797-1856)

The tyranny of the many would be when one body takes over the rights of others, and then exercises its power to change the laws in its favor. VOLTAIRE (1694-1778)

Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. DANIEL WEBSTER (1782-1852).

Honest difference of views and honest debate are not disunity. They are the vital process of policy among free men. HERBERT CLARK HOOVER (1874-1964), U. S. President, Speech, 1950.

A knowledge of different literatures is the best way to free one's self from the tyranny of any of them. Oscar Wilde (1882)

Since the general civilization mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people, by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations. JAMES MADISON (1751-1836), Virginia Convention, 16 June 1788.

Clavos, can't live with her or without her?

For the opposition, boycotting that last election must be seeming like a worse idea every day. Venezuela has been duly left with a parliament that rubber-stamps anything Chavez wants. You sow what you reap, I guess.

Dr, D,

It really doesn't matter that they boycotted (though I'm sure they ARE regretting it); Hugo Chavez would have found a way to consolidate his power anyway.

Franco,

Ironic, isn't it?

Props to you for finding words of Noam Chomsky's to use against Chavez. While reading the quote, I kept seeing Chavez bizarrely waving Chomsky's book in the air during his drama performance at the UN a few months ago.

How delicious! Hoist with his own petard!

the bottom-feeder venezuelans are getting the left-wing dictator they deserve.

Man, news from Venezuela is rolling in today. Heard a live radio report with screams and shooting in the background. Apparently tens of thousands of people have taken to the streets in protest. Initially it was students so they shut down the universities, and now everyone has taken to the street protesting against Chavez' shutting down RCTV.

Dave

It's sad to see how the Venezuelan people allowed this dictator into power. Just by the fact that he "compensated" the president of the National Electoral Counsil with the position of vice president shows what really happened in these elections. The closing of RCTV is his tactic to hide the precarious situation this country is living.

According to this BBC report, filed just an hour ago, Chavez is already threatening to close another station, this time the Globovision TV station.

Interestingly, the article says that Globovision is the only Venezuelan TV station that is reporting on and showing footage of the riots against the closing of Radio Caracas.

Coincidence?

Dave and Clav: Naughty boys. You two are just trying to draw moonraven out of the ether. I knew Chavez would go the way of all latin american dictators. It's a given, and whatever he and his supporters say, that's what he is.

To avoid further upheavals mainstream Venezuelan media should follow the US example of self censorship. When they get a Bill Maher type occasionally saying the "wrong" thing, pull the show off the air. Venezuelan right wing versions of Chomsky should be given the Chomsky treatment: Allowed to appear on television ......in some other country.

Interestingly, the article says that Globovision is the only Venezuelan TV station that is reporting on and showing footage of the riots against the closing of Radio Caracas.

Interesting. Up until Sunday Reporters Without Borders was saying that Globovision was safe because they were cooperating with the Chavez government. I guess seeing what happened to RCTV gave them a sudden infusion of spine. Probably not a good plan if they want to survive - or maybe they're trying to provoke some sort of international intervention.

Dave

To avoid further upheavals mainstream Venezuelan media should follow the US example of self censorship.

That's what most of them are doing. Sadly Venezuela doesn't have the diversity of media outlets we do here in the US. We've got too many to silence. In Venezuela a littel intimidation goes a long way.

Doesn When they get a Bill Maher type occasionally saying the "wrong" thing, pull the show off the air.

Odd, I watched Bill Maher on TV two days ago criticizing the administration and flogging Ron Paul. He didn't look particularly off the air to me.

Venezuelan right wing versions of Chomsky should be given the Chomsky treatment: Allowed to appear on television ......in some other country.

The only thing keeping Chomsky off the air is that most people realize he's a lunatic.

Dave

"The only thing keeping Chomsky off the air is that most people realize he's a lunatic".

Gnome Chompsky?

I watched Bill Maher on TV two days ago criticizing the administration and flogging Ron Paul. He didn't look particularly off the air to me.

Yes, but he's on HBO. You have to pay much moolah to watch him.

You can always get the highlights off YouTube for free, Dr. D.

Dave

Meanwhile, the Kossacks are (naturally) defending Chavez, while mocking the independent media there...

RJ,

You mean you don't recognize Jamie Stein-Werner (or is it Stern Weiner?)?? The great defender of justice and the Islamic way? Noam Chomsky Lite? THE HEATHLANDER? How could you not recognize that bloke? He writes here (every now and again)!

Calling Jamie a "Kossack" is rather a knout of a title; Noam Chomsky Lite seems more appropriate. He was born in Israel after all, and never misses an opportunity to trash the country of his birth. B'emét, hu yarád - truly he has "gone down" from Israel to the depths of "political correctness".

When all journalism is like what he writes, you'll know that all press freedom has been truly lost in the western world.

Wow, RJ. Interesting link. I can see why Heathlander feels more at home on DailyKos where his lunacy won't be subjected to much examination or criticism.

Dave

Chavez has been in power for almost a decade...has he been able to revolutionize Venezuelan society and significantly reduce class privilege or eliminate ignorance poverty and hunger there - ?

I'd like to see a 'no bullshit' assessment of the missions...I gather that they are not keeping up with timetables

Today's Miami Herald notes in this article that journalists, anchors and other staff of Venevisión, a Caracas TV station that has been knuckling under to the Chavez bullying, have joined the demonstrators and were openly protesting the closing of RCTV at one of the rallies yesterday.

According to the article, political analyst Enrique ter Horst, said,

Chávez ''clearly over-estimated his strength in this instance,'' said lawyer and political analyst Enrique ter Horst, a former U.N. deputy high commissioner for human rights. The RCTV closure, ter Horst told The Miami Herald, ``has awakened sectors of society, such as the students, which had remained largely on the sidelines.''

do the demonstrators have any constitutional protections - ?

troll notes,

I'd like to see a 'no bullshit' assessment of the missions...I gather that they are not keeping up with timetables

Most of what I've been able to find over the past several months has been decidedly partisan, pro and con.

However, some international and presumably reportedly neutral organizations such as the Reporters Without Borders group Dave mentions, as well as the occasional UN official, have been critical of some of the policies of the Chavista government.

As to progress on social programs: there has been, with the help of Cuba, progress in providing medical care to the poor. Some housing projects have been launched, but few, if any, are actually ready for occupancy, according to eyewitnesses I know personally here in Miami (who are anti Chavez, but who I believe have credibility).

Aside from seizing a lot of property "in the name of the people", not much has been done so far to re-distribute same.

I've found the European MSM (BBC, Reuters, et al) to be the most impartial.

...and I've read that 3 billions have been invested in social programs - that there is a food distribution program reaching some of the hungry and a literacy program reaching some of the uneducated...but it strikes me that a decade is a long time and 3 billion a paltry sum for such a rich country with so many poor folk

"but it strikes me that a decade is a long time and 3 billion a paltry sum for such a rich country with so many poor folk"

...especially when you consider the amount of money that Chavez has given to other countries:

"U.S. government aid to Latin America was about $1.7 billion this year, of which $1 billion was military-related aid for anti-narcotics programs.

While precise figures are not available,Venezuela's foreign aid appears to be several times greater than the U.S. total for the region, according to a Chronicle survey of publicly released data.

Chavez has single-handedly rescued Cuba's economy, providing an estimated $1.8 billion annually in oil and other investments.

In Argentina, Chavez bought $3.1 billion in government bonds in the past year, allowing the government to pay off its debts to the International Monetary Fund and World Bank; in Bolivia, he is giving about $200 million in aid programs, ranging from military supplies to computers for schools; and in Nicaragua and El Salvador, he has discounted oil and gasoline to leftist municipal governments controlled by the Sandinista Front and Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front, respectively.

In the Caribbean, under a pact known as Petrocaribe, 14 countries pay only part of the bill for Venezuelan fuel up front and can finance the rest over 25 years at low interest. In Jamaica, Chavez has given a $274 million loan for a highway and sports complex and $65 million for a refinery."

San Francisco Chronicle article dated 9/21/06.

to be fair - here are some figures on social spending

revolutionary redistribution - ?

do the demonstrators have any constitutional protections - ?

Since the constitution is still basically suspended I think whatever protections it had left after Chavez got to rewrite it don't apply anyway.

Dave

Hey editors, what happened to my spurned comment??

I didn't get a "banned word" message.

It just disappeared into akismet's bottomless maw?

No idea, Clavvy, there's nothing in holding.

I've read the Venezuelan Constitution and it's an inspiring piece of work, as admirable in its way as its American counterpart.

Unfortunately, its noble ideals and fine words mean diddly squat if the checks and balances aren't there to protect it.

Well, thanks for looking, Chris. Dunno what happened.

troll, I was trying to address your comment #31 to say that the numbers presented in your citation are interesting in that, while there has been an increase in overall social spending relative to GDP when SS is included (in the first table), in the second table, with SS excluded, the relative percentage of social spending to total public spending hasn't moved almost at all.

Given that his GDP has been going up strongly since 2003, thanks to rapidly rising oil revenues, it's not surprising that spending relative to GDP has gone up, but those figures would seem to indicate that he's spending a lot more on other items (such as AK-47s from Russia?).

Hope this one posts!

I've read the Venezuelan Constitution and it's an inspiring piece of work, as admirable in its way as its American counterpart.

I assume you read the original draft, not the revised version as of last year with most of the provisions for due process and the rule of law removed.

Dave

What is going to get real interesting is when Chavez gets those Russian AK103 factories pumping out assalt weapons with night scopes by the hundereds of thousands if not by the millions.

Chavez knows he needs to make sure these weapons go into the hands of those who will blindly follow him to the death. I guess after this weekend that leaves out the univercity students.

How he makes that decision or brings it about is going to be something to watch, if we still have any credible information coming out of their.

Additionally, he will be supplying other countries all they want in these weapons as well. Venezules is gate way into the jungles of South America and Chavez has his eyes on several countires he wants under his stinking arm pit. Once these weapons are out and about in the jungle there is no getting them back. They will pass from hand to hand and most will start out in the hands of the uneducated poor individuals and the well paid for Chavez leader loyalist all eager to to pull all those triggers.

A lot of people are going to get shot. But I know it will all be Bush's fault anyway.

I want to thank you, Dave, for posting that link about the successful court-packing scheme of Hugo Chavez Frias. I did not previously know the details about this.

Whenever and wherever the legislative branch of a government becomes nothing but a sycophantic rubber-stamp to a radical, autocratic executive, the only hope the people have is a strong and independent judicial branch. But Hugo Chavez Frias was smart enough to pack the judicial branch with mindless drone supporters.

He is in complete and total control of the Venezuelan government. He is literally ruling by decree (the legislative branch recently ceded essentially all government authority to him). He has nationalized entire industries, and fired employees from government-run companies who do not support him.

The only thing left standing between Hugo Chavez Frias and Castro-like control of Venezuela is the independent media. Once that is gone, it's game over. Plain and simple.

And we will see, in the coming days, if the PEOPLE of Venezuela have the HUEVOS to stand up to and overthrow this totalitarian leftist dictator.

I like this quote, via Reuters:

"Enemies of the homeland, particularly those behind the scenes, I will give you a name: Globovision. Greetings gentlemen of Globovision, you should watch where you are going," Chavez said in a broadcast all channels had to show.

"I recommend you take a tranquilizer and get into gear, because if not, I am going to do what is necessary."

I was watching Fox News yesterday and they noted that the Times had only written a small blurb on this story, and I don't think it was on the front page either. Checked the online "front page" of the Times today and didn't see anything on it, unless I'm losing it. Though I do like the Times, that is shameful indeed.

From today's Miami Herald (front page, Elvira. Down here, for obvious reasons, it counts!):

Chavez has already begun to move on Globovision, ordering Venezuelan Communications Minister Willian Lara to initiate legal action against the station for having broadcast images of the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II in 1981 with the soundtrack playing a popular song titled This Does Not Stop Here. The charge is that the broadcast was an incitement to assassinate him.

Chavez is being denounced worldwide for his closing of the RCTV radio station.

According to the Miami Herald,

''The Venezuelan government's politically motivated decision not to renew a television broadcasting license is a serious setback for freedom of expression in Venezuela,'' Human Rights Watch said in a statement.

As the world is finally beginning to realize, Chavez' threats are not idle. In his broadcast speech yesterday, he said:

''I'm ready to die for my country. Are you ready?'' he asked. ``They've decided to come for us with everything. We're waiting for them. In the hills, in the neighborhoods. People: Be alert.''

Talk about inciting!

The opposition is growing. In addition to the students and others who have been protesting in the streets for several days now, the Herald notes:

...he has encountered resistance from middle- and upper-class Venezuelans, media owners, senior military officials and state company employees who accuse him of undermining democracy and imposing an authoritarian system.

Meanwhile, Chavez' mentor and teacher, Fidel Castro, continues to carefully groom him to take up the battle to spread Marxism throughout Latin America.

Whenever and wherever the legislative branch of a government becomes nothing but a sycophantic rubber-stamp to a radical, autocratic executive, the only hope the people have is a strong and independent judicial branch. But Hugo Chavez Frias was smart enough to pack the judicial branch with mindless drone supporters.

I wish that those on the left who compare Bush with Hitler or call him a dictator could look at Venezuela with an open mind and see how far off the mark they are with Bush. But since they're in denial about Chavez that lets them indulge themselves in the delusion that Bush's tiny excesses are the stuff of nightmares.

What would they do if Bush shut down CNN? What would they do if Bush suspended or rewrote the Constitution? What would they do if Bush supporters broke in and burnt the presses of the New York Times? And why don't they hold Chavez to the same standards?

Dave

#38 -- Franco

"Chavez knows he needs to make sure these weapons go into the hands of those who will blindly follow him to the death."

#41 -- Clavos quoting Chavez

"I'm ready to die for my country. Are you ready?'' he asked. ``They've decided to come for us with everything. We're waiting for them. In the hills, in the neighborhoods. People: Be alert."

Twangs of Jim Jones crossed with Castor. He is preping the hearts and minds that he intends to issue new AK103's.

Every time Chavez makes these radical statements of invasion coming to Venezuela it always precedes, and or follows, something he set in motion that he knows will be extremely controversial to the free world when it is realized.

With his RCTV axing job he knew that he was going to draw international condemnation, but where it apeares he over played his hand was with the Venezuelan people.

In order to fill up this void in among the Venezula people supporting him and his singular power rule he will need still more power and more control over more of the people and beat harder on both the drums of "fear" of the invasion and "fear" of him. Those he can not scare into submission will probable go that way of Cubas Revolution resisters. What and who will stop him?

I believe if he stays in power for several years we will all look back on these days as the genital and more rational times.

Franco says,

"I believe if he stays in power for several years we will all look back on these days as the genital and more rational times."

I think you really mean "gentle," although he IS a prick.

The latest news out of Caracas has Chavez threatening to shut down the local ofices of CNN as well as globovision, because they reported on the massive antigovernment protests which have been ongoing since Sunday with 10s of thousands of people in the streets going head to head with riot police.

Dave

Well, moonraven is in CARACAS at this moment, and has to say that Nalle has given us an ignorant piece of propaganda direct from Globovision via CNN.

As usual, of course, he doesn't bother to tell us that everything he thinks he knows is at best past through 4 or 5 anti-Chavez filters and only the excrement is left to put on these pages.

What I can say is the following:

1. This is not a free speech issue. Governments control media licensing here--just as they do in the US with the FCC and in every other country I have spent time in. This is a question of renewing a license for open operation (this does not affect cable or internet RCTV operations at all) on channel 2 for a channel that has incited sedition, incited magnicide and promoted racism and criollo privilege--the last two for the entire 53 years of its operation.

The surprise here should be that RCTV was able to broadcast until midnight on Sunday! If a station incited the overthrowing of a legal government anywhere else on the planet, at the very least they would have been jerked off the air immediately--and in the US Marcel Granier would be cooling his criollo heels in Guantanamo. Let's not kid ourselves. The issue here is privilege, and a medium that feels it doesn't have to comply with laws or even common decency because the owner is rich and WHITE.

2. Because the opposition here has had no pretext to raise hell for quite some time, they are milking the RCTV NON-RENEWAL (this is not a CLOSURE)
for what they can squeeze out of it. And they are now using students from the private universties as cannon fodder for their interests. Those protesting students are let out of class by their professors and PROMISED EXTRA POINTS for protesting, while chavistas are threatened with failing the courses. (NO, I did not hear the professors say that, but I have heard this from a number of different students--and considering I have nearly 15 years of experience as an educator in Latin America, I know how the system of "education" in private schools works--so I would bet a fair amount of bolivares that it's true.)

3. What I am seeing--especially yesterday--was that there are more police than protestors in the streets. And the banging on the pans down where I am staying lasted all of 15 minutes last night--as opposed to maybe 45 minutes the night before. It's boring, there's no real issue, and that's why no one who isn't getting paid one way or another to protest can be bothered doing so.

4. This is all very silly--who cares, really, whether a tv station goes off the air or doesn't? It's just a pathetic chance to propagandize against a non-white progressive leader who just happens to control the planet's largest petroleum reserves--because there are no other issues to propagandize about.

And because folks like Dave Nalle have nothing better to do with their lives and their time, they spew out the predigested pap from the right wing media.

5. Free speech--who are you kidding? Does free speech mean that I or Nalle or anybody else has the RIGHT to own and operate a t.v. channel? This is about MONEY and (white) PRIVILEGE guys--just like everything else on this rapidly disappearing planet.

For other info that I have posted or will post from Caracas, those interested can check the Commondreams site.

Free speech??????Concern about that from all you bigots who demanded they I be banned from blogcritics?

Do not make me laugh. Again.

just one point of fact: the Constitution of Venezuela has not been suspended.

Nalle has absolutely no shame plopping out lies like big fat turds figuring you folks are too stupid not to believe them.

That's it for this bird. Over and out. From Caracas--in the reality.

good to read you again moonraven - !

I see that a vacation has not made moonraven any more truthful or any less biased.

On the suspension of the constitition I refer her to the BBC which seems to think that Chavez has been granted the power to rule by decree, which by its very nature is extra-constitutional and amounts to the constitution being suspended in fact if not in name. Are they lying?

As for your pathetic attempt to defend what''s going on there in #46, we get it. Free speech is meaningless to you. It's not to the rest of us.

Dave

Thanks, troll.

In a certain sense, maybe it is healthier that some young people in what, in my opinion, is a very loud and fairly conflictive society are out in the street getting a little exercise instead of sitting in front of RCTV soap operas.

But then, I haven't watched any t.v. since 1990....

And some specific responses:

with the FCC and in every other country I have spent time in. This is a question of renewing a license for open operation (this does not affect cable or internet RCTV operations at all)

Except that those operations are not commercially viable and cannot support the staff of the station to do any actual reporting.

on channel 2 for a channel that has incited sedition, incited magnicide and promoted racism and criollo privilege--the last two for the entire 53 years of its operation.

For those not familiar with moonraven's perspective, her use of 'criollo privelege' is a negative code word for property rights in this case. Magnicide isn't a word. I think she made it up as a variant of regicide.

The surprise here should be that RCTV was able to broadcast until midnight on Sunday! If a station incited the overthrowing of a legal government anywhere else on the planet, at the very least they would have been jerked off the air immediately--and in the US Marcel Granier would be cooling his criollo heels in Guantanamo.

I listen to broadcast radio at least once a week which advocates the overthrow of the US government, and rather than being yanked off the air, the show was recently picked up for nationwide syndication.

Let's not kid ourselves. The issue here is privilege, and a medium that feels it doesn't have to comply with laws or even common decency because the owner is rich and WHITE.

Yes, let's not kid ourselves. For MR the issue here is that the owner is rich and white and she's a classist and an anti-white racist.

2. Because the opposition here has had no pretext to raise hell for quite some time,

Well, it's hard to raise hell when you get beaten or murdered or have your property destroyed when you try to speak out.

they are milking the RCTV NON-RENEWAL (this is not a CLOSURE)

An involuntary non-renewal IS a closeure. Don't try to bullshit us with semantics.

3. What I am seeing--especially yesterday--was that there are more police than protestors in the streets.

Which would suggest that after 4 days of rubber bullets and teargas the protestors have been successfully intimidated.

4. This is all very silly--who cares, really, whether a tv station goes off the air or doesn't?

People who'd like to have more than just one official presentation of the news care, I imagine. International human rights groups certainly seem to think it's worth making an issue of.

Free speech??????Concern about that from all you bigots who demanded they I be banned from blogcritics?

Hey, don't look at me. I didn't demand it. And you weren't banned as I understand it, but asked nicely to take a break.

Dave

Nalle,

Do NOT post opinions as factual links. That is just as journalistically unethical now as it was when I first called you on it last September.

The right to rule by decree preceded Chavez' presidency and has been used by at least 3 previous presidents here. It is also included in the constitution, so doing so cannot be unconsitutional.

And if the consitution had been suspended, RCTV would not have been able to put a claim before the Supreme Court here about the UNCONSTITUIONALITY of having it's concession renewal denied.

Simple logic, really. And simple turth-telling instead of propagandizing.

You always respond by calling me a liar because you have no information and spend your life in front of the t.v. and the computer screen.

Yet I make the effort to get on a plane and see what is REALLY happening. That's the difference between you and me, Nalle--I live in reality, not in a dream of gameworld, and reality is where the truth lives--not in a trailer in Texas unless you are writing a piece about the lifestyle of folks who live in trailers in Texas.

Here, the issue is what's happening in Caracas--and WHY. You don't have to be here like I am--there are a fair number of good pieces by REAL writers available on Commondreams and Venezuelanalysis--but it sure doesn't hurt any to be en media res instead of deep in the heart of Texas.

You bet I am biased! Everybody is biased, and at least I am biased on the side of positive action--not biased towards sitting on my ass and armchair-quarterbacking planetary genocide.

Get a life.

"I see that a vacation has not made moonraven any more truthful or any less biased."

If that's what a vacation is supposed to accomplish, you should think about taking one.

Nalle would have us believe that cable operations are not commercially viable!!!!!!

Pull the other one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There would be a lot of stations that are in bankruptcy in the US alone if what Nalle said had a grain of truth in it.

And just for the record, the Venezuelan government offered the RCTV employees the resources to start their own businesses if they wanted to. Garnier threatened to can their butts if they accepted the government's offer.

Just the facts, Nalle. Just the facts.

Joe Friday, Dragnet Caracas

My final comment on this, as I have to get out in the street now, is to comment that no opposition folks have been murdered or had their property destroyed--that's Nalle lying again. They were soundly trounced in the ballot box--63% in fact--numbers any US candidate WOULD kill for.

As for involuntary rebewal meaning closure--it's Nalle trying to shit us again. Nowhere in the world ExCEPT FOR lA LEY TELEVISA IN MEXICO--CURRENTLY BEING DEBATED IN THE SUPREME COURT--is it law that concessions ARE AUTOMATICALLY RENEWED.

Give us a break from the pieces of excrement--even the usual blogcritics brownnoses are having trouble swallowing them.

Much less a bird with a brain and good vision in Caracas!

Nalle would have us believe that cable operations are not commercially viable!!!!!!

Pull the other one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And once again, facts prove to be MR's downfall. Only 4% of the population of Venezuela has access to cable TV. So what you'd like is for RCTV to be limited solely to a tiny number of wealthy viewers with an audience base which wouldn't be large enough to attract advertisers and pay the bills.

There would be a lot of stations that are in bankruptcy in the US alone if what Nalle said had a grain of truth in it.

Except that the US has 15 times the rate of cable/satellite subscription that venezuela does, providing a decent audience for a cable station.

And just for the record, the Venezuelan government offered the RCTV employees the resources to start their own businesses if they wanted to. Garnier threatened to can their butts if they accepted the government's offer.

Well now, that's nice. Perhaps they could all start fruit stands. Or did he offer them enough money to start their own TV or radio broadcast stations and guarantee them a license? These are journalists, after all, not fruit vendors.

Do NOT post opinions as factual links. That is just as journalistically unethical now as it was when I first called you on it last September.

And you're just as wrong now as then. As always, my links are to news articles in the media or legitimate NGOs.

The right to rule by decree preceded Chavez' presidency and has been used by at least 3 previous presidents here. It is also included in the constitution, so doing so cannot be unconsitutional.

True, he rewrote the constitution, so I guess whatever he wants is constitutional now.

And then, as usual, MR melts down into a series of personal insults, having no foundation of fact or logic to support her attacks.

there are a fair number of good pieces by REAL writers available on Commondreams and Venezuelanalysis

Let's see, you think that sites sponsored by the International Socialists and by the Venezuelan government are impartial sources. Do I have that right?

Dave

I don't remember anybody "demanding" it.

This is another of mr's fantasies.

She got a timeout, just like any other naughty child.

"4. This is all very silly--who cares, really, whether a tv station goes off the air or doesn't?

People who'd like to have more than just one official presentation of the news care, I imagine. International human rights groups certainly seem to think it's worth making an issue of."

Among them:

Interamerican Press Association
OAS
Reporters Without Borders
Human Rights Watch

ALL of these organizations are protesting not only the closing of RCTV, but also the general ongoing intimidation of the Venezuelan opposition press.

Actually what happened was that Moonraven lost her temper and wrote to Eric Olsen demanding I be sacked or suspended or something. At the same time, there was a lot of discussion going on about increasing the level of civility in both the politics section and across the site in general.

As a result of all that, EO wrote to her suggesting that she take a break from the site. Upon her return, the only guidance I have received is

please emphasize that we expect a level of civility and respect in the way she voices her disagreement.

Leopards rarely change their spots, Chris.

Thanks for the update, BTW.

If I'd known she was demanding you be sacked, I'd have rallied some support!

Just kidding, old chap. I disagree with you from time to time, but as commenter, not as editor.

Upon further reflection, make that usually not as editor...

Chris,

Lots of luck indicating where I have been uncivil. despite the fact that most posters here wouldn't know civility if it bit them in the ass--and that definitely includes you. Just the facts--not uncivil at all.

I only peeked into this site because I knew Nalle would be copying CNN/Fox News and other folks' news pieces--as usual--and passing them off as his own.

Then I happened to see that someone had requested my take on the situation. And since I happen to be right on the scene, not in a trailer in Texas, I responded.

Nalle calls editorials/opinion pieces legitimate sources and plagiarism is just fine for him. Probably one of the reasons he was sacked from academia.

I don't have time to post on blogcritics, but why not just BAN ME--you defenders of free expression--and then you wonj't have to worry about my stopping by and posting INFORMATION AND FACTS from an EYEWITNESS perspective.

If Nalle were here he would see that cable t.v. is EVERYWHERE in Venezuela. A conservative estimate places cable subscriptions at 40 percent--not the FOUR percent Nalle said there were here. Anyone starting a cable operation with 40% would do just fine--most of the cable operations in the US started with considerably less.

The government offered money to the RCTV folks to start media cooperatives, not fruit stands. The government did not have to do that. If one of the channels in the US went off the air the US government would even whine about giving journalists (if there are any left in the US) unemployment compensation!

Be that as it may, Nalle would have you folks believe that a progressive site or a progressive newspaper is defacto illegitimate--not true Nalle. But I CAN say that anythying Nalle is involved with is tainted by his lack of ethics and lack of journalistic credentials. Writing for this dippy site and for game mags just ain't being a journalist, sorry.

But of course Nalle's calling ME a liar is just fine. Because he's on the right.

Give me a break.

Nalle also lied when he said I made up the word MAGNICIDE.

Don't be lazy--google it.

I am afraid this will have to be my only comment to Clavos.

The Organization of American States has NOT made a motion to call Venezuela's attention about the RCTV NON-RENEWAL--despite the US asking for it.

Reporters without Borders has no credibility because they are largely funded by the US and European governments, so reflect the politics of their funders.

SIP is made up of commericial media owners-hardly impartial.

Human Rights Watch has also managed to lose most of its credibility because the folks working for it in Latin America only listen to folks on the right--sad, but true.

What about the International Organization of Internet Shills and Plagiarists?

Or the National Organization of Ignorant Gringos?

Governments all over the world have come out in favor of Venezuela's position on this--no government wants to see that its decisions can be made the distraction/talking point to pull attention away from failed US government foreign policy.

Except, of course, for Alan Garcia, in Peru--who said media closures couldn't happen there, when Peru has done a bang-up job of closing media--including TWO in April of this very year.

"Governments all over the world have come out in favor of Venezuela's position on this..."

List 'em.

List them with sources, mr.

And don't bother listing Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, or Bolivia (though its Senate did issue a statement condemning Chavez), we all know where they stand and I'll stipulate to their supporting Chavez.

Got others? Don't forget the sources...

I only peeked into this site because I knew Nalle would be copying CNN/Fox News and other folks' news pieces--as usual--and passing them off as his own.

Except, of course, that I didn't use either of those sources and linked only to NGOs with the exception of one link to ABC news. Keep lying. It makes discrediting you so easy.

Nalle calls editorials/opinion pieces legitimate sources and plagiarism is just fine for him.

Perhaps you could point out which of my sources was an editorial or opinion piece, because I couldn't find one.

If one of the channels in the US went off the air the US government would even whine about giving journalists (if there are any left in the US) unemployment compensation!

In the US we have established rules for handling unemployment compensation and if they qualified they would get it. We wouldn't need to make a one-time guilt payment because we wouldn't shut down a media source arbitrarily for political reasons.

Writing for this dippy site and for game mags just ain't being a journalist, sorry.

Just for reference, I haven't written regularly for game magazines in over a decade, but they did pay better than blogging.

But of course Nalle's calling ME a liar is just fine. Because he's on the right.

You wouldn't know a real right winger if one bit you on the ass, apparently.

The Organization of American States has NOT made a motion to call Venezuela's attention about the RCTV NON-RENEWAL--despite the US asking for it.

You make this so easy it's almost embarassing. See this article in the IHT about the OAS' statement condemning the shut down of RCTV before it even happened.

Reporters without Borders has no credibility because they are largely funded by the US and European governments, so reflect the politics of their funders.

Those politics in this case being to favor a free press. Those evil colonial bastards! How can they oppress the third world by wanting them to have free speech?

Human Rights Watch has also managed to lose most of its credibility because the folks working for it in Latin America only listen to folks on the right--sad, but true.

Yeah, human rights aren't human rights if conservatives are supporting them.

Dave

I warned you Dave ... I knew you'd get a boot up the bum from moonraven. Tee hee

"List 'em."

Burkina-Faso?

Marthe,

It's going to be fun watching you defend the policies of a man "doing a Mussolini," turning Venezuela into a dictatorship as we watch (from the computer screen in the mountains of Samaria - don't got no TV).

At least I call Israel's leaders the corrupt mafiosi they are.

Have fun in the streets of Caracas, Marthe. And don't get run over by any cops. We'll be waiting for a report from the joyous working class of the emerging People's Republic of Venezuela.

Just be careful not to go to the USA if you can help it. Bush (or the men behind Bush) is also "doing a Mussolini" there...

Clavos challenges mr:

"List 'em"

And Stan replies:

"Burkina-Faso?"

Damn, you're right Stan; I forgot them. Also, Zimbabwe.

Clavos, I will CONSIDER taking time out from lliving a REAL LIFE to post REAL SOURCES when I see you and Nalle post REAL sources--not opinions from the BBC and the Miami Herald or other such non-sources.

Since you have never posted ANY secondary news sources--much less PRIMARY ones. I, for example, am a PRIMARY source--because I am in Caracas commenting as an eyewitness and an earwitness.

Folks here can choose the comfortable belief that anything south of the Rio Grande is evil and dirty and scary and corrupt by reading the pap pushed by FOX news and CNN and YOU if they want to. They can continue to kid themselves that they live in a democracy and that destroying the planet is the best thing since sliced pretend bread if they want to.

Believing anything else would mean getting off their ass and doing something. And that's too much for you guys to think about, I guess.

I really do not care. I don't have time for delusions and collusions.

[Gratuitous vulgarity deleted by Comments Editor. Strike One.]

You accepted that same gratuitous vulgarity some time back from the hysteric who demanded that I be banned...

What's sauce for the gander apparently does not apply to the goose?

Just in from various news websites: THE SUPREME COURT OF MEXICO DECLARED AUTOMATIC RENEWAL OF MEDIA CONCESSIONS TO BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Sources: start with La Jornada if you read spanish--being a progressive newspaper doesn't mean that the supreme court did NOT declare automatical renewals unconstitutional.

That's it for me. Keep on...jerkin'.

Chris,

Now please give me strikes two and three, you pinche little priss.

I want to see you free speech advocates ban myfeathers from this foolish forum forever.

Go for it!

If you DO get banned from BC, mr, it won't be the first time a site has banned you.

Do you see a trend?

Think about it calmly enough to realize it's not your opinions that will get you banned, it's the way in which you present them.

Just think about it.

moonraven, yet again you deceive yourself. I'm not a free speech advocate nor do I wish to ban you.

The site has its own guidelines with regard to the conduct of people towards each other. As you have been told many times, you are welcome to debate ideas as passionately as you wish. On the other hand, pointless namecalling is simply childish, irritating and tedious.

You can continue to contribute your own views as much as you like, and I hope you do. However, if you continue with the pottymouth behaviour, you will most assuredly be banned. The choice is yours.

Clavos, I will CONSIDER taking time out from lliving a REAL LIFE to post REAL SOURCES when I see you and Nalle post REAL sources--not opinions from the BBC and the Miami Herald or other such non-sources.

The major news services including AP and CNN have people on the ground in Venezuela and they are primary sources. Unlike local media they have not yet been kicked out, shut down or intimidated into silence. Most of the news stories Clavos or I would link to are based on sources like that, so they are certainly as much derived from primary sources as anything you would provide, and probably better researched and more competently presented.

Now, in the original article I did not link to news sources. I linked to NGOs. Those NGOs operate on direct contact from concerned citizens in the countries involved. In the case of RSF they get their information directly from editors and reporters in Venezuela who are willing to complain to them about problems which they cannot safely talk about publicly within the country.

Your attempt to raise the issue of 'primary sources' is obviously a ploy to attempt to silence the truth, but it's as transparent and self-serving as most of your attempts to prop up tyrrany and promote oppression.

Dave

Yep, Moonraven is the New Native American Teddy Roosevelt--running around Latin America with a big stick.

Hah! At least this bird has SOMETHING that is big....

Nalle, you have never referenced real sources in any piece you have published here, and you have also never done so in your comments.

And there is a reason for it: You are only here to promote propaganda--not INFORMATION.

And don't bother to tell me about the pristine sanctity and professionalism of CNN. It is a joke being told by an idiot, signifying nothing.

A pretty comon activity in the US, actually.

Which is just one of the reasons that my former country is sitting in the toilet, waiting to be flushed.

A hawk IS different from a handsaw--and it doesn't matter from which direction the wind is blowing, Hamlet.

Clavos, the medium IS the message, baby.

I ain't changing a feather for the likes of you.

Could not possibly care less if I am banned.

It would, in fact, prove the point that this site is not about free speech, but intolerance.

I am just having some fun with you.

Moonraven, how is it you keep assuring everybody this is absolutely positively definitively the very last ever comment you're going to make on something ... and then you're back again with yet another comment? And another ... and another. Face it: you're just another blog junkie like the rest of us. However it does make you look very silly when you do that.

That's what ideological trolls like moonraven DO--post the good stuff on the sites that they care about and feel sympathy with--and bait the folks on the other side of the political fence in their little dens and virtual caves.

Of course we receive a lot of batshit in those caves from you hysterics--but in my case I have plenty of insulating feathers--and all you can do is point up your hypocrisy by banning me.

You got very little firepower to work with.

I have to laugh picturing Nalle abusing his editorial privilege checking to find out to his consternation that YES, moonraven is in Caracas. Just like she said.

Meanwhile, life goes on. Somewhere else. HERE in CARACAS, for example.

Nancy, It is all part of the game of trolling.

You look silly when you take the bait.

I thought you were dead.

moonraven - do the people that you interact with seem content with the pace of reform - ?

a 9% reduction in the household poverty rate still leaves 34% of families living in poverty

is Chavez getting any pressure from the left - ?

MR, I thought I was, too. Should'a been, probably, except for the air bags & seat belt. As it is, I'm working on getting a new leg. As I told Clavos, then maybe I can appear on Dancing With The Stars. It helps to have a sense of humor about it, I guess. I keep telling myself at least if I stub my 'toe' it will hurt the furniture more than it will me.

Troll, one of the most important things to consider anywhere in Latin America is whether things are getting better, first. If they aren't, then it's pointless to ask them many questions.

In Mexico, for example, there has been a negative growth plotting itself on the graph since 2001--despite the fact that the past 3 years have brought as much money into Mexico's coffers in windfall petroleum profits as it has in Venezuela's. Yet poverty increases every year--now the most conservative government figures put it at just over 50%--and considering the numbers of immigrants still pouring over the US border it is pointless for folks on this forum or any other to try to fabricate arguments that the rightwing governments of Fox and Calderon have made thigs better--as despite the oil money, conditions worsen in all sectors daily. That's because Mexico's coffers are in reality the pockets of the wealthy--who pay no taxes and actually receive bogus sales tax refunds in the billions.

In Venezuela, by contrast, during the past 3 and a half years, growth has been above 10%, and poverty has been reduced to the 34% figure most folks are managing. Considering that realistic figures of Venezuelan poverty when Chavez took the power in 1999 were close to 80%, that's a pretty dramatic betterment of the standard of living for the folks here.

Indices of financial wellbeing--the traditional ones--show the economy continuing to boom and folks are out there buying new cars like mad and beating the doors down at the shopping malls. Chavez gets himself around when he's on his own in a used VW Beetle, so there are some values issues here--but in a certain sense you can't blame folks for consuming like mad when for years they really couldn't do that.

So some of the progress issues here are bound to focus on values--and when folks are having a consuming boom along with a big growth in the economy, there is inflation.

I can see it's an issue--things cost more than they did 3 years ago. Some things like hotel rooms are probably double in some extreme cases--although more expensive ones like the government-owned Hilton are relatively cheaper. For someone like myself, who is not that much of a consumer, I see that prices for stuff I am paying for are till lower than they are in Mexico--yet the minimum wage in Venezuela is about 40% more than it is in Mexico.

In this part of the world, troll, it's important to folks to see positive economic trends. And Venezuela is where one sees more dramatic positive changes in the quality of life indicators (free medical care for everybody, free meals if you want them, discounted basic food items, free schooling at all levels, etc.).

No, this is not Norway--but the indicators are going up every year, and considering the similarities in social philosophy and economic base, the comparison is not all wet to consider.

Folks where I live in Mexico--and I don't live in an area where poverty is considered extreme--would be dancing in the street to have anywhere near the economic and social conditions that are the norm in Venezuela.

Are people frustrated, think progress happens too slowly, consider bailing out on democracy--not for a minute. All one has to do is look at the results of the Latinobarometro periodic surveys to see that Venezuelans have a high level of confidence in their democracy and are happy with the conditions in their country--in more than double the percentage of Mexicans, for example, or of the average of all Latin American countries.

The only folks who are bitching are the folks who, like their counterparts in Mexico, used to put the petroleum revenues into their pockets. And those folks are still doing just fine. Maybe they aren't shopping every weekend at the Chanel boutique in Miami--but I don't think that is a hardship.

Is Chavez getting any pressure from the left? Depends on what you call the left, troll. There are folks here like Ted Petkoff who roams around Latin America and worms his way into almost every issue of Gatopardo magazine (Latin America's answer to Vanity Fair, maybe) talking about how he used to be a guerrillero back in the day and therefore is a leftist and commenting from a leftist perspective. The previous president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, called himself a leftist, too--which was a big surprise to his fellow PAN party members--the party furthest to the right in Latin America--and damn proud of it. Petkoff's newspaper, Tal Cual, is definitely a rightwing publication--and Petkoff--like other Latin Americans who were leftists back in the day--writer Mario Vargas Llosa and former Mexican foreign minister Jorge Castaneda come to mind--has hardened his political arteries as he has aged and would now probably support Pinochet.

In short, folks on the left or right are definied by their actions--not by what they claim to be. And here, although there is always infighting among the chavistas thatI have personally witnessed--this is a conflictive culture, after all--if anything Chavez receives pressure from definable leftists to be more radical.

Chavez is--if one looks at what he DOES--a pragmatic centrist--what used to be called a social democrat in this part of the world. He is not about to take foolish risks--he knows exactly how far he can go--politically, economically and socially--and he's been extremely successful.

But because global politics have moved so far to the right that now Barry Goldwater would be called a radical leftist, things are relative.

Hope that fleshes things out a little.

Nancy, glad you are keeping a sense of humor. I recommend Radical Forgiveness for seeing the perfection in those blasts the universe occasionally gives us. Google the website if you are interested.

Petkoff's newspaper, Tal Cual, is definitely a rightwing publication--and Petkoff--like other Latin Americans who were leftists back in the day--writer Mario Vargas Llosa and former Mexican foreign minister Jorge Castaneda come to mind--has hardened his political arteries as he has aged and would now probably support Pinochet.

What MR misses here is the irony of how apt a comparison between Chavez and Pinochet might be. Putting aside their opposing political philosophies, if she's right about the economic improvements Chavez is bringing the Venezuela, then he might be fitting into the same mold of benevolent, beloved and yet basically dictatorial leader which Pinochet and some others have tried to live up to.

It seems quite common in Latin America and throughout much of the third world, that the population is more than willing to give up the basic trappings of liberty if they can get some improvement in the economy as a result. The problem, as demonstrated in North Korea and Cuba, is that under a socialist system the economic benefits are inherently short-lived. After the initial redistribution of land and wealth, the centrally-controlled economic system cannot sustain prosperity or generate authentic growth, and the economy goes into a hard decline.

But maybe Chavez is perceptive enough to realize that long term prosperity requires economic opportunity, entrepreneurship and encouragement of new industry, not juet 5-year plans.

Hell, I've always been a fan of benevolent dictators. If Chavez shows the vision and self control to steward his country through reforms and back into some semblance of a free society my hat will be off to him. But there have been damned few leaders with the integrity to pull something like that off.

Dave

Nalle,

Just a couple of quick comments.

1. Pinochet was put in place by Nixon and Kissinger and the US held his hand all the way to opening his hundreds of bank accounts in Miami. Chile still has one of the most unequal distributions of income in the hemisphere--second only to the inequality of income in Brazil. I do not consider that Pinochet made any social progress--his regime cancelled the agrarian reform and other reform programs and put the increased copper revenues in the pockets of the wealthy--as well as in his above-referenced bank accounts. A little progress has been made in the past 17 years since he left power, but until his minions are pushing up daisies it's going to be more than an uphill battle.

2. WITHOUT USING DICTATORIAL POWERS, Chavez has managed to pull his country out of the toilet. Oil was at 7 bucks a barrel when he took office in 1999, and the coffers were empty. Where is oil now--thanks to Chavez' revival of OPEC? Just about 10 times the price, I believe. He also has managed to thwart the US government's schemes to destroy Venezuela's economy and take over its resources, and despite the lockout in 2002-2003 that damaged the economy to the tune of 10 billion dollars, he has managed from 2004 to the present to create a booming economy (higher growth that China's is NOT to be sneezed at in my book), renationalize much of the country's resources, create a free health care scheme, free schooling for all (meals included while on campus), free and discounted food, eliminate illiteracy, dramtically reduce the poverty level, and a long list of etceteras.

3. He has done all of the above and more WITHOUT killing thousands of folks opposed to him like Pinochet did with the approval of the US government and the active participation of the CIA. Some of his supporters have been murdered, true--most notoriously the prosecutor Danilo Anderson--but he has not returned the favor. And Marcel Granier may be no longer on Channel 2, but he is not in jail (where he probably should be and would be in just about any other country) but is going about his business and the case he put before the Supreme Court will proceed to be heard.

I think it's time that you put your money where your mouth is, Nalle, and take off that cowboy hat. It's still not to late to repudiate the demented Texan DICTATOR in the Oval Office and join the rest of humanity that is pushing for a better world being possible.

#85...

"Hell, I've always been a fan of benevolent dictators."

Which ones do you like best?

BTW, did you mean to say "In Hell"?

George Bush can't be on Nalle's list of benevolent dictators, as he is malevolent.

Just shows you that retarded people are not all cherubs like we thought they were....

Apparently, not even oil revenues are a bottomless barrel.

Bloomberg News, in an article published today, reports that the Central Bank of Venezuela announced that the Chavez government's budget deficit for the first Quarter of 2007 was more than double the that of the same period in 2006, bringing Venezuela's deficit to its highest level in the eight years Chavez has been in power.

Attributing the gap between revenue and spending to greatly increased social spending and government workers' salaries, the Central Bank also noted that the spending is fueling inflation to the tune of 19.5% through May; the highest in the hemisphere.

According to the Bloomberg report,

"Chavez, using government largesse to consolidate political support, has handed out subsidies to millions of poor families. Spending has outstripped revenue pushed higher by rising crude oil prices."

Apparently, Chavez doesn't have any decent economists working for him. Or perhaps he does, and is simply ignoring them.

Here's Mary Anastasia O'Grady, Americas Editor of the Wall Street Journal, on the ongoing food shortages in Venezuela.

Video was taped May 23, 2007.

Sorry, above link won't work.

Video also available here.

Scroll down to video.

Nonsense--I have observed no food shortages here. I can buy anything I want for much less than it would cost me in Mexico.

Inflation comes with a economic boom. Theproblem is when itcomes with a recession--like it has in Mexico, where prices rise monthly.


Clavos should get over his fear of flying and hop on a cheap flight from Miami. Then even HE would see what a crock is being peddled by the anti-Chavezmedia. yesterday El Nacional was FULL of woeand gloom and breast-beating and tearing ofclothes becayse the Venezuela petroleum was only at a little over 60 dollars a barrel. To read the story, the country was bankrupt.

It wasmy laugh of the day--wellmy laugh of the day besides reading this thread on blogcritics.

Ignorant experts like Clavos and Nalle are getting paid what they are worth to write articles here: nothing.

Hundreds of thousands of folks marched in support of the government yesterday--just a few blocks from here. In a real democracy, the majority prevails. Really good to see.

"Ignorant experts like...Nalle are getting paid what they are worth to write articles here: nothing."

Yeah, but he designs a mean font...

That doesn't cut it. Thirty years ago I was manager of the typesetting department of a large printing companyin Jurassic Park

Even thirty years ago there was no need to DESIGN any fonts.

There are hundreds of them, and some have been around since the time of Gutenberg.

There's nothing new under the sun--not even in Texas.

There's no absolute NEED to have more than one brand of microwave or more than one different style of shirt, yet there are many and new variations are produced all the time, because there is a desire and a use for them.

That you don't understand the marketing aspect of type explains why you aren't working in a typesetting department anymore. Even when I was working as a typesetter at that same time, I realized that products needed a unique identity and one way to establish that was through the use of fonts which had not been seen time and time again and are distinguishable from other popular fonts.

And there aren't hundreds of fonts - though back in the 70s we only had a few hundred available on a Compugraphics system. There are actually tens of thousands of fonts, but there is still demand for new variations, and that creates a market for what I do.

And BTW, that period 30 years ago was the era of some of the most successful and highly regarded modern type designers. As usual your ignorance knows no bounds. Have you ever heard of Hermann Zapf or Eric Gill or Rene Chalet? They all had their peak of original type design in the 1970s. But I guess they were just wasting their time. No one today uses Palatino, right?

Dave

1. Pinochet was put in place by Nixon and Kissinger and the US held his hand all the way to opening his hundreds of bank accounts in Miami. Chile still has one of the most unequal distributions of income in the hemisphere--second only to the inequality of income in Brazil.

But yet it still has one of the most prosperous economies in the region with a per capita GDP almost double that of Venezuela, an unemployment rate less than half that in Venezuela, less than 1/5th the inflation rate of Venezuela, etc. Sure, it's GINI rate is slightly higher (8pts), but that's more than made up for by the overall level of higher pay and employment in every level of the society.

I do not consider that Pinochet made any social progress--his regime cancelled the agrarian reform and other reform programs and put the increased copper revenues in the pockets of the wealthy--as well as in his above-referenced bank accounts. A little progress has been made in the past 17 years since he left power, but until his minions are pushing up daisies it's going to be more than an uphill battle.

Yes, but your standards of social progress are based on how much the business class is harmed, not on how much the population in general is benefitted.

2. WITHOUT USING DICTATORIAL POWERS,

Everyone here knows that's a lie, except you.

Chavez has managed to pull his country out of the toilet. Oil was at 7 bucks a barrel when he took office in 1999, and the coffers were empty. Where is oil now--thanks to Chavez' revival of OPEC? Just about 10 times the price, I believe.

Again, your ignorance shows. Stick to the price of bread in Caracas. You clearly know nothing about the oil industry. The current price increase has nothing to do with OPEC. They're trying to stop it from happening. It's mostly the result of limited refinery capacity, which some are claiming is an artificial crisis created by the oil companies.

He also has managed to thwart the US government's schemes to destroy Venezuela's economy and take over its resources,

You don't seem to grasp that the US and its government pays virtually no attention to anything that goes on in Venezuela. It's trivial.

and despite the lockout in 2002-2003 that damaged the economy to the tune of 10 billion dollars, he has managed from 2004 to the present to create a booming economy (higher growth that China's is NOT to be sneezed at in my book),

An 8.8% growth rate looks nice on paper, but remember where he's starting from. 8.8% growth on a GDP per capita of only about $6000 isn't enough to bring incomes in Venezuela up even to the level of Mexico any time soon.

renationalize much of the country's resources, create a free health care scheme, free schooling for all (meals included while on campus), free and discounted food, eliminate illiteracy, dramtically reduce the poverty level, and a long list of etceteras.

And all you have to pay for that is your right to a free press, to join a political party, to assemble in public or to acquire wealth and property.

3. He has done all of the above and more WITHOUT killing thousands of folks opposed to him like Pinochet did with the approval of the US government and the active participation of the CIA.

Pinochet killed remarkably few people during his time in power. Sure, more than anyone would like to see, but what makes him a benevolent dictator is that on the whole he did a lot more good than harm.

Some of his supporters have been murdered, true--most notoriously the prosecutor Danilo Anderson--but he has not returned the favor.

You might want to tell that to the families of those murdered by his police and his supporters since 1999. You might want to start by looking into the assassinations of journalists like Joaquin Tovar and Jorge Aguirre - but maybe there's no informaton on those crimes available there in Caracas.

And Marcel Granier may be no longer on Channel 2, but he is not in jail (where he probably should be and would be in just about any other country) but is going about his business and the case he put before the Supreme Court will proceed to be heard.

By a court packed by Chavez which rubberstamps his edicts.

join the rest of humanity that is pushing for a better world being possible.

Oh, I'm all for a better world. I just don't think we get there by confiscating property and taking away peoples rights.

Dave

Put the cowboy hat back on, Nalle! I can't read your articles, blinded by the gleam from the chrome dome. You can get one just like the old one for about $2.99 at the truckstop down the road.

Nallecon says...

"Oh, I'm all for a better world. I just don't think we get there by confiscating property and taking away peoples rights."

But that is exactly what we encourage Israel to do.

Without US Taxpayers footing the bill, it couldn't happen.

You want a better world?

Start there.

I hope I've never given you the impression that I support Israel or their rather barbarous behavior, MBD.

Dave

"I hope I've never given you the impression that I support Israel or their rather barbarous behavior"

Do you have a link where you display your lack of support of their rather barbarous behavior?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

The burden of proof is on you, MBD. Show me where I've ever written anything particularly positive about Israel.

I'm not sure I've ever even written an article about Israel at all.

And BTW, objecting to Hamas or Hezbollah is not the same as supporting Israel.

Dave

LOL!

Your response is too evasive for any other comment.

MBD, that's not an answer. Just accept that I'm not a big fan of Israel. Unless you can prove otherwise you kind of have to take my word for it.

Dave

Just as a dime wouldn't buy a cup of coffee, your word wouldn't buy it either.

Nalle supports Pinochet (mercifully dead now), yet is against folks who take away people's rights?

??????????????????????

The right to live, apparently, is not a right that Nalle is concerned about. Folks tortured, imprisoned, thrown into common graves that are still being found all over Chile, folks being thrown out of airplanes over the Pacific--just collateral damage for folks like Nalle who think about nothing but money--but, oddly, never have any.

Nalle, Call me when you get off the plane--I'll taxi down to the airport on the coast and pick you up. You'll need a translator while you're here...

MR, if I ever have so much time on my hands that I decide to do a tour of socialist hellholes (having already done my time in far too many of them), I'll bring along a translator of my own choosing, to make sure the translations are accurate. Maybe Clavos will come with me - or wait, I live i Texas, so half my friends and neighbors speak Spanish. Hell, I'm even developing some facility myself. How far will I get saying "Recuerde de utilizar suficiente mortero, Paco."

Dave

Interesting, Nalle. I have always considered Texas to be a hellhole.

Different strokes for different folks. On this site--the circle jerk. Out here in the real world, life STILL goes on.

To me, just living in a fortified compound would be hell-hole. I can't imagine being so paranoid. (Howard Hughes comes to mind...)

Oh well--what do you expect from Nalle, who tries to write ONE sentence in Spanish--after telling us he has some facility in the language--and it comes out making absolutely no sense--not grammatically, nor in meaning....

My chuckle of the day.

MR, if you think Texas is a hellhole I suspect you've never been to Austin. You'd fit right in. Everyone here has NPD.

As for my excellent Spanish sentence, I think you prove that I'm on the right track with my ongoing efforts to communicate with illegals.

Dave

Sorry, Nalle:

Been to Austin, San Antonio, Dallas and Houston. A couple would probably be okay places except for the people....

Well, now, you managed to write a sentence in English that made absolutely no sense.

Keep up the good work.

"MR, if you think Texas is a hellhole I suspect you've never been to Austin. You'd fit right in."
- Dave Nalle

What's your point, Vox? So if Austin isn't a hellhole, then it's an OK town; and if moonraven fits right in, than she's OK, too...?

Back to the topic of this thread:

Just to show readers how much the opposition here in Venezuela is on its knees before the US: Tonight, in the Plaza Afredo Sadel in Caracas, RCTV will be showing--on a giant screen--¿Quien quiere ser milionario?

The station owners know that when something is out of sight, it is out of mind, so they have decided to take their programs--no longer on Channel 2--to the streets. Only in middle or upper middle class areas, of course.

But their choice of programing is a giant Fruedian slip!

MR, that idiotic show is not even on the air here in the US anymore.

Dave

Is that "Who Wants to be a Millionaire"? In Austin, it's on KEYE at 12pm and they are preparing to tape the '07 season late summer. It was surprisingly easy to Google.

Here's an excellent (and on topic) NYT op-ed piece by former President of Peru Alejandro Toledo.

Chávez's actions are clearly beginning to worry some of his Latin American neighbors. As President Toledo notes:

" This is about more than one TV station. President Chávez has become a destabilizing figure throughout the hemisphere because he feels he can silence anyone with opposing thoughts. He wishes to hear only his own voice, to see his own face replicated a thousand times on the television channels that he controls. He ignores the fact that the true revolution of our era consists of listening to others rather than silencing them through repression or government decrees.

The rest of Latin America's leaders cannot remain indifferent to the closing of RCTV or to Mr. Chávez's threats to close other media outlets that give time to opposing opinions. Those of us who confronted authoritarianism in the past must again stand up for continent-wide solidarity."

Mr. Toledo gets right to the heart of what is, despite Chávez's avowals to improve the lot of Venezuela's poor, the fatal flaw in his leadership and administration:

"Latin America's common enemies are poverty, inequality and exclusion -- not dissident thought. Hunger is not fought by silencing critics. Unemployment does not disappear by exiling those who think differently. We cannot have bread without liberty. We cannot have nations without democracy."

¡Hazle caso, Hugo. Escuchale!

Found a fascinating video on YouTube which shows armed chavistas firing on protestors during the shutting down of RCTV.

dave

Since the RCTV clossure for many venezuelans, like me, internet has become the only source of information, although we suspect its sometimes banned by the government. Many things that happens here don't reach even Globovision, the last remaining oposition channel. That's why, among other reasons, I started a blog. Although It's not exactly a news blog (and I don't intend it to be), I tell there how is my life under Chavez regime. Others have been doing the same for years. I encourage who ever is reading this to use those blogs as a source no matter if you are agree with Chavez policies or not, you should hear venezuelan voices, since we are losing the regular channels to inform. I'm sorry about the commenters who thinks this is only a rich people issue, everyone no matter how rich or poor is, should have equal rights. But in Venezuela if the government thinks you are rich, and you are not agree with the revolution, you dont have those rights. I guess for many some people are just more equal than others. For me anyone is a human been and deserves to live with dignity. A list of venezuelan blogs among other links can be found at www.venezuelatoday.net, I also provide a few links.
PS: Excuses about the grammar and spelling mistakes you might find on the lines above. As Celia Cruz used to say "my english is not very good looking"

Re #117:

You tube now has about a dozen videos from Caracas with footage of chavistas firing on demonstrators.

Thanks for the link, Julia. Access to Venezuelan blogs from the grassroots ought to be very helpful in getting a real ground-level view of what's really going on there.

Dave