Selwyn

Your article is weak once more. If you want to gain credibility, do some research to make sure that what you state actually exists and can be verified by sources outside of a particular interest group. Anything less will only discredit you as either intellectually inferior, immature, bigoted or all or some combination of the above.

Your Muslim thing is so off. Do you know how afraid Muslims are to make a squeak these days? Using an example of few Muslims who like other groups make ridiculous requests is again a sign of a lack of consideration on YOUR part.

Also your romanticized images of the immigrants of yester years shows your ignorance. Many immigrants were on some form of welfare. Many immigrants of the past are still clustered in their own communities even after several generations. The Italians and the Irish in many cities are still very exclusive.

Many Muslims are considered to be White so are many Mexicans. I don't get the racial distinction in your article. Puny mindedness again.

Selwyn, You are way off base. Hispanics assimilate very quickly. You are buying in to the ANTI rhetoric. Why are you targetting Moslems and Hispanics in your blog? Are you trying to ride the ANTI Gravy Train? Are you trying to make a name for yourself? Do you want to go on the Pat Buchanan pundit tour? You are right. You have met the enemy and it is You ANTIs!

I recognize that Duke is trying for alliteration, but not all hispanic illegals are Mexican; in fact, I believe the majority are Salvadoran, altho I'm probably behind the times in the stats.

The Muslims represent another problem. They really do not assimilate readily, anywhere in the world they settle; their religion & iron-fist attitude towards converts (out of Islam) & non-Muslims ensures that. Western civ. family courts in Europe & the US have a huge problem with muslims, especially in enforcing anti-discrimination or anti-violence laws against women. Even the most 'liberated' & educated muslim women end up trapped in the male-dominated Sharia culture of the entire muslim community, often abandoned & castigated by their own families against them instead of their abusers, & the problem is far worse for those muslim women imported here as mail order brides who don't speak English and/or are not allowed to mix with non-muslims. They're held in virtual slavery. There have been a series of excellent articles on this problem in various area journals & papers recently, & it's just the tip of the iceberg. Muslims just do not feel they have any reason or responsibility to follow non-muslim laws, regardless of whether they're the intruders into the culture/country or not, & the imams enforce & encourage that attitude among muslim males. How this can be dealt with without violating the Freedom of Religion clause of the B of R is a real problem, because they simply can't be allowed to go on this way. Somehow it should be made crystal clear to anyone & everyone coming in to this country, as a visitor or otherwise, that they are here on OUR sufferance & NOT because they have any rights to do so, & that furthermore they will be expected & required to follow US laws over & above any others, religious or otherwise - or they can just turn around & go back where they came from if they're not willing.

This business of government (& businesses) facilitating matters by going multilingual is also bull. If I go anywhere else in the world, I'm expected to make do with coping with the native language, whether it be French, KiSwahili, or Mandarin. I'm also expected to obey the laws of that country - NOT those I choose to import along with me. No one in the US should be catering to those too stupid, too lazy, or too arrogant to make the basic effort to learn to get along in English, which like it or not IS our common language.

On the other hand, I will say that the US in general does a piss-poor job of providing classes for English instruction for incoming personnel. In this area (DC-MD-VA) classes are overloaded with those eager to learn, even if they have to start at 6 am before work, or continue late at night after work,& few or no classes are offered on weekends. Granted, few if any other countries offer linguistic/cultural instruction, but then again, few other countries have the kind of immigration rates we do.

Finally, our immigration policies, enforcement, & citizenship procedures are horrific if not outright some kind of bad joke. It is not uncommon for some poor slob to spend 20 YEARS applying for permanent status for self & family. That's obscene & totally, utterly unacceptable in a country with the capabilities for intelligence & computer data processing this one has, if we choose to use it as effectively for government as the damned advertisers use it to target people for marketing purposes. No excuses whatsoever. If Colgate or US Tobacco can use this incredible technology to try to peddle their garbage, the government can most certainly adapt it to streamline & track persons coming in (or going out). BushCo would do better, IMO, to put the NSA & FBI to working on weeding out potential criminal entrants rather than spying on political enemies. No wonder too many prefer to slide in under the door, as it were.

Zedd, the Italians and Irish have, I would argue, spread out. A long time ago to boot. Sure, there remain some clusters of Irish/Italian neighbourhoods but that's because the old generation are reluctant to move. The younger ones have moved on and integrated long ago.

Don't forget, that between them you have something like, what, 50, 60 million people? Never mind the number that have inter-married. The concept of the Little Italies is all but dead. What is left is nostalgia and some renewal in sense of neo-nationalist cultural attachments.

What I'm trying to say is that new housing developments and cultural migrations are not based on blood as a means to survive in an alien land anymore. Now, they are all North Americans and make decisions accordingly. I appreciate my heritage but it will not get in my way.

What I liked in this piece is that the Germans, Jews, Irish, Italians etc. did not need laws. It all got worked out and in fact I think there's a bona-fide respect between the communities now.

Alessandro


I acknowledge what you say about their spreading out off course. However it hasn't been as swift as the author would suggest. Its taken decades. The same will happen with Mexicans and Muslims. Why wouldn't it?

It our parts, Muslims cluster around collages and mosques but are spread out too quite well.

I don't appreciate the idea that there is something unique about these people which makes them different from the immigrants who created massive ghettos and were loathed even more, for their brightly colored clothes, loudness and cultures.

The Muslim community is educated, produces well educated children who are entrenched in the professional realm, speaks English and is crime free for the most part. How they are hurting the nation is just weird. They are probably the most educated, least ghettoised, immigrant population that we've ever had. There have been more Muslims than Jews for decades in this country and no one was aware. I don't get his point.

As for Mexicans. The problem is illegal immigration, not that Mexicans are immigrating to this country. The illegal immigrants bring an "outside of the law" element to their relationship to our society. That permeates to everything. Assimilation can't happen properly because they are not supposed to be here and they don't have as much at stake as a person who is committed to this nation.

Lastly, are you sure you want your e-mail posted?

Selwyn

Your paranoia about Muslims is distorted. You do realise the 911 occurred because hundreds of people were afraid of BOX CUTTERS from nine men. Pull yourself together.

We had a threat from the Soviets for decades and we established a system to keep them at bay without hating Russians or Eastern Europeans. It is irrational and rather immature for you to be weirded out by Muslims.

Zedd -

It is absurdly irrational for you to state that 911 occurred because "hundreds of people were afraid of BOX Cutters from nine men". Pull your head together.

You chastise Duke for losing his credibility as you sink into incredibility.

Selwyn

Many years ago, for instance, if a person insisted on dressing like an advertisement for the Middle Ages, didn't learn the language or sought to impose strange beliefs in the workplace, he would have been fired or not hired in the first place.

Yes we also didn't let Blacks vote then either. Many Catholics were not hired either because they were thought to be pagan. Rabbinical Jews are still ostracized.

Do you realise that Social Work started because of immigrant communities. The WASP communities wanted to help them to stop being so wild and women started going in to help tame them. The GOVERNMENT got in on the act because of the delinquency, child abandonment, truancy, unattended illnesses and was VERY involved in those communities. DO YOUR RESEARCH next time.

As for your third world immigration comments, look in your engineering and science departments, it is full of individuals from the "third world". Look at your top scores in high schools, it is the students from the "third world" and their children. Look at the emerging athletes.... There is a disproportionate representation of "third worlders". I don't know what we should be lamenting, a decrease in White skin???

We've been claiming to be representative of the world but haven't been really. Now that we are, you complain?

You sir are bigoted and simple minded in my opinion. We are simply evolved organisms. Your over excitement about Europeanness is dumb in my opinion and means nothing in the grand scheme of everything in the universe.

Perhaps it is you who has the wrong notion of what America is.

Jerry

Without those nine men (or whatever the SMALL number) and the box cutters, there would not have been a 911.

We wont even debate this point.

Do pull yourself together. I know its important for you to dramatize it because of the effect of it but that is the truth, sad as it is. BOX CUTTERS not weapons of mass distruction BOX CUTTERS.

Nancy

I would argue that Europeans have done a horrible job at assimilating to other cultures around the world. Actually they have been more disrespectful than any Madres have. We Americans are dreaded world over for our arrogance and disrespect for people's cultures and expecting people to speak English in their own countries to accommodate us.

So what happens with immigrants is natural to all humans. We are ethnocentric and believe the world to be as we know it. It is not done in malice.

However I think that the US needs to make English THE official language and it needs to be pronounced that in order to migrate you must be an English speaker. Most of the cultural misunderstanding will be much more quickly dissolved and assimilation will be more swift.

I didn't think our problem is with immigration, its with illegal immigration.

The business community has no desire to fix this problem. THAT is the real problem.

I agree with Kennedy's proposal that if illegals want to be considered for a work permit (to be decriminalized), they must pay a fine for breaking our laws, and take and English test and proof of income that is 150% over the poverty line. This will reduce a guarantee of an increase of a poor class.

What I like also is the doing away of familialy based immigration.

Zedd, you really want me to point out it out?

God forbid there is another 9/11 type event,but if so it will not be nine men with box cutters. It could be a small private plane carrying a dirty bomb, or a toxic or biological agent introduced into water and food supplies, or maybe a the Goodyear blimp will be hijacked and flown into the Rose Bowl with a nuke.

I suppose it could be blamed on the pilots with their flying "box cutters" or bad men who through a bottle of poison in the reservoir; maybe that evil nuke.

Won't you live up to your convictions as you expressed on the other recent immigration blogs.

Maybe you are feeling a little guilty for treading so hard on Clavos and are now committed to express a little more sensitivity?

Nancy has said it all much better than I.

Jerry

You said it on the other thread, I was simply against illegal immigration. I was not being racist or anything of that matter. Clavos kept wanting me to be racist in order to refocus the discussion. That topic WAS about illegal immigration.

This thread is NOT about illegal immigration. Its about non-White immigrants of which I am one. It would be silly for me to rally against myself and my entire family now wouldn't it.

Also there is no need to think that Whiteness assures goodness or a positive contribution to this country (eg the various ethic mafias from last century's immigrants). It assures better acceptance and therefore and easier time trying to assimilate.

Zedd -

You transformed the thread into a defense of Muslim immigrants, that's fine. What is whacked is your perception that 9/11 is about hundreds of a (cowardly ?) American's who would not fight against the box cutter wielding bastards; they did fight against them on the last plane headed for the White House when they perceived their fate.

Muslim terrorists, not box cutters, planes or bombs caused 9/11 Zedd; like criminals kill people, not guns (which also save people). It is not nativist, racist, ethnocentrist or anything else to look at facts. The 11th commandment should be "Thou shalt not be stupid"

Jerry

It seems that you are really hurt by the acknowledgement of what really happened on 911. That's what happened. Nine men with box cutters. Call them terrorists or ninjas or boogie men whatever floats your boat. They were nine men and they used box cutters, didn't they?

Your need to add emotion and warp my post about what happened including adding words like "cowardly" is just strange. Why the need for drama. It won't undo 911 and it wont fix what caused the 9 men with box cutters to be able to convince hundreds to their sad death.

You see if we focus on theatrics that are created by politicians and media for ratings, we will not understand what really happened and how we should prevent it next time. You will be looking for a dirty bomb when the next time comes and it may be simple baking flour.

Demonizing Muslims is certainly crazy and has nothing to do with solving the issue of global terrorism. Its just a silly vocation. There have been Muslims here for the longest, more Muslims than Jews. We've been fine and actually clueless about their existence. Now WE are all nuts because of this NINE men with box cutters. Rather irrational. You running around like a chicken with your neck cut off will not make America any safer. It will actually make things worse for us. We will make more enemies and also be out of focus; not focusing on the real terrain. So yes, pull yourself together.

As for defending Muslims, do they need defending? What have all or most or a third or fourth of Muslims done to need defending? I just don't agree with the authors post and voiced my disagreement and the reason why. I wasn't defending Muslims. The article was just dumb.

Zedd, your reasoning and rationale speak for themselves and need no rebuttal.

However, here is what a Pew Research study found out about a fourth of US Muslims under 30 support.

Jerry

What part of this report is notable.

If its the suicide bomber thing, you don't understand what it is like to not have a battery of conventional weapons so you innocently think that suicide bombs are an automatic sign of badness. In most guerilla wars, unconventional methods of combat are utilized because the revolutionaries don't have the weaponry of the governmental body that they are warring.

Your naivety is sort of cute but alarming.

That report didn't say that those young Muslims believe that suicide bombers should be used by terrorist against America, they were referring to the Israeli conflict. Are you surprised?

Is it any more sacred to kill hundreds of civilians with one large bomb than six people at a market?

Selwyn -- I agree with other posters that you are way off base here. The plain fact that up until about World War I, the US was fitfully inconsistent about any nudge in the direction of assimilation. For example, there were publically funded German language schools in Pennsylvania and other states (and Joseph Pulitzer early in his career worked for German-language newspapers), and Poles, Hungarians, Norwegians, Danes and others attempted to maintain their separate culture even as they and their children were pulled into "mainstream America."

Despite all the hysteria over Hispanic immigration, if you take even a cursory glance at Spanish language television, you will find numerous commercials for English language schools. Advertisers wouldn't waste their time if there were no market for this.

I'm just going to add my personal observations to those of others who've reacted to the implausibility of this article.

I come into contact with muslim and mexican immigrants on a daily basis. I do charity work with them, I do business with them and I meet them socially. Hell, I'm even related to some by marriage. Both groups make extraordinary efforts to assimilate with the dominant culture, in many cases making far less effort to hold onto their own cultural traditions.

They learn the language, because they know that is how to get ahead in our society. They eagerly participate in our popular culture. If they contribute some of their own back, that only makes life richer for the rest of us.

One of the things that troubles me enormously about a lot of the anti-immigrant proposals that have been floated is the plan to deny them access to the public school system. I don't even believe we should HAVE public schools, but since we do, keeping them available to the children of immigrants is essential. The schools are one of the primary methods by which they become assimilated. Overwhelmingly new immigrants learn English from their kids who learn it in school. Cut off the kids from school and you cut off the immigrants from the rest of us and encourage a dangerous isolation.

Dave

Dave

Great post.

In Dallas, in order to live in subsidized housing there are various stipulations that must be followed or else you are removed from your housing. Among others, your children MUST attend school. If they are reported as cutting school, you are out. Your children must not engage in any criminal activity.

Having expectations from people who benefit from the larger society is a wonderful idea.

There should be expectations from us to the immigrant community, including the illegal community if we are going to insure a better future for our country.

Alec writes:

Despite all the hysteria over Hispanic immigration, if you take even a cursory glance at Spanish language television, you will find numerous commercials for English language schools. Advertisers wouldn't waste their time if there were no market for this.

Excellent point, Alec. I missed that one in my article.
(and yes, this IS also a shameless attempt to generate readership!)

whoops. oh well.

oh yeah--the article... it's shit, as would be expected... take a look at this: "America is being erased. The stabilizing majority that forged her unique culture is being eroded through the importation of culturally imperialistic forces by treasonous politicians."

you know, white people were making this argument against other white people for a while, then they made it against freed black people, and now they are making it against brown people. xenophobic every time. it's a big world out there. if you want to live amongst white people, go to canada. oh yeah, they have a shitload of asians up there. you got a problem with asians? probably do... sigh...

white people were making this argument against other white people for a while, then they made it against freed black people, and now they are making it against brown people. xenophobic every time.

Some people just make a point of hating whoever it's still "OK" to hate. Hence the current hysteria over gay marriage/rights in general... "We can't be bigoted about neeegrahs any more, so let's see... who can we still be bigoted about?"

Sad.

And yes, the article is idiotic. I notice that once again, Duke has not been back to defend his opinion on the thread. He seems to be like one of those "drive-by" trolls who will come onto a blog, post one moronic comment and then disappear.

Except that this troll is an actual contributor.

Dr D: The French?

Oui, Oui

Alors, merde, j'ai ouvri une boite de vers...

"[Prior assimilations have] taken decades. The same will happen with Mexicans and Muslims. Why wouldn't it?"

I can think of three reasons it might not. One, the isolationism of the culture of origin. This applies to Muslims, not Mexicans. I might add that European Jews were equally isolationist, and while they've contributed a lot to our culture, haven't exactly assimilated. So there's precedent.

The second possible reason for non-assimilation has already been mentioned. English has always been our primary language. Usually the immigrant generation masters a heavily-accented version of English, and their kids are raised speaking English and a bit of the old tongue. These days, there is massive Spanish-speaking immigration into certain regions, and the locals are responding with bilingualism. That's different.

The final reason for concern is the role of government. Without getting all conservative here, aid used to come from the neighborhood and parish. The neighborhood matriarch would rule with an iron hand. A good boy would marry a good girl and get a house on the same block. The system didn't aid assimilation per se; in fact, it probably worked against assimilation initially. But it rewarded the hard worker and provided stability, which helped in the long run. Government programs can't do that. No government agency can remember your mistakes as efficiently as a mean old grandmother.