There's no question about it. Never mind the statement they make and the world support you write about, if the Palestinians relinquish violence they will have peace and a state in a jiffy.

Liam,

You're asking these people to adopt Gandhian tactics! It would work wonders in the western press, this is true - but were they capable of this kind of discipline when they were better off - in the 1990's before the PLO robbed them blind - there would be some kind of "Palestinian" entity today. Lulling the Israelis to sleep with peace and quiet while arming to the teeth would have defeated the IDF in open combat.

But the Gandhian tactics you propose, while they might be effective, are just not in these people's blood. It's like asking Israelis to be drunks. Israelis do drink liquor and vodka to be sure, and wherever there is a Jew, good herring and schnapps is sure to be nearby.

But this is a coffee culture, not one sloshing in alcohol like so many Europeans do. Drinking is just not in our blood. Similarly, peaceful protest is not in the blood of the Arabs. Good try, but no cigar...

To add to the spirit of what someone else wrote:

If the Palestinians put their guns down today, there would be no more death; if the Israelis put their guns down today, there would be no more Israel.

Unfortunately in each Arab country, the minority rules with an iron fist and causes dispair to the every day people - Hizbullah come to mind? If the majority could rise up and take the guns away, there may be a chance for at least their own future if not for peace with Israel (hard to have peace with a country you are taught to dispise from birth (the Palestinian Mickey Mouse anyone?).

If Palestians love their children more than hate Israelis, then will peace.

They spend all the International help money in guns and rockets, to kill jews, instead to build their homeland. They asked for Gaza be free from Jews, they got it. Now , what are the new excuses they are looking for. More excuses for continue to kill jews. Most Palestinians don't want peace at all.

Look at the problem in perspective - if only Palestinians (P) would want Israelis (I) out of Gaza/W. Bank, that goal would be easily attainable. And peace would be there in no time. Yet the goal is different - it is to "push Is out to sea". From this point of view, it's fight to the death, until one party gets wiped out. Since Is hands are tied by the democratic principles, Is cannot wipe out Ps. On the other hand, Ps are allowed to do whatever by the international community, and they usually get away with killings of civilians, etc. Yes, Israel retaliates and kills both militants and civilians (collateral damage), but at least they don't kill Cs intentionally.

The root of the problem, IMHO, is Iran. They want dominance of the region, they have a lot at stake, and they will not stop until they either achieve their goals or get destroyed (to a degree). I believe that if the whole world stands up to them in a forceful manner (along with all possible types of sanctions), they will eventually collapse, just like Soviet Union did (I was born and raised there, BTW).

If Iranian extremist government collapses, they have a good chance to be a quite progressive country, as many of Iranians are well educated and progressive. Yet until their government drops Islamic extremism, nothing in the region will change.

Liam sez: Israel's repeated operations in the West Bank led to Hamas deciding to end the ceasefire with Israel. That's just a dumb thing to say, as if Hamas would just leave Israel alone if they'd play nicer. The entire history of the organization, and indeed of modern Israel, suggests that Hamas would end any ceasefire with Israel because they're Jews and must be driven into the sea.

Liam's non-violent intifada is just a pure delight of ignorant Western liberal candyland thinking. Like that's ever going to happen. Palestinians bring this misery 100% on themselves. If they actually WANTED peace and prosperity for themselves, it wouldn't be that hard to make some big strides - just can all the terrorist nonsense, and the Israelis would be the first ones eager to help them.

Overall, the Palestinians seem to like the current state of war. As downtrodden as they are, they're making the Israelis miserable with all their killings. Killing Jews is clearly a far higher cultural value there than having any kind of success for themselves or their children. Until that changes, there's nothing to do but to thin their ranks.

I can't get you guys to comment on the real war that is going on, can I? That is covered at my article here and a slightly different one at Desicritics. Anyway, enough of the self pity.

Brother Al,

Liam's no-violent fantasy intifada is the stuff of candy-land western media types - which is why they would eat it up like a kid gobbling down m&m's. Fault doesn't matter because in the eyes of the MSM, Israel is always at fault.

The problem is trying to get a cat to act like a mouse. It ain't gonna happen. But Liam is at least reaching for solutions, which is more than either the idiots on the Kirya, or their Arab opponents are doing.

Look for a heavy upsurge in violence in about two and a half weeks. I can smell it in the air - like romance...

Now it is time to contemplate the origins of the messiah and how those origins corrected evil sexual behavior from generations back - the story of Ruth and Boaz; and it is also time to contemplate the "matán toráh" at Sinai about 3,500 years ago. The holiday of Sh'vuót is almost here.

Oh for Rand's sake. I'm just looking at Liam's little bio blurb, where he's got a website promoting "poetry for a more peaceful world."

I'm sure Liam's a real swell fellow who would be a fine neighbor, but this is utterly delusional on a basic level. If we could just give voice to our poets, there'd be brotherhood and peace. If we could just get the Iranian mullahs to listen to some American college boys reciting their touching poems, they wouldn't just shoot them for a bunch of fags. No, they'd be moved in their heart to find that we all want the same things deep down. Then we'd all hold hands and sing "We Shall Overcome" and give each other handjobs.

Where have all the sane people gone?

First of all, not only extreme Arabs preach the death of Jews as the will of their god. According to Christopher Hitchens, Author of God is Not Great, many evangelical Christians believe in a final day of judgement in which the saved will enter heaven and all non-believers, including Jews will be slaughtered.
You are all (except Ruvy) basically saying that the Palestinians don't want peace. But anyone with half a brain knows that a just solution to this conflict will result in Israel returning East Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state. But Israel is happily Judaizing Jerusalem; Arabs are being driven from their homes, if not by forced demolitions then by the future of being trapped by a ten metre wall, not to mention a life as second class citizens.

Israel wants Jerusalem before it wants peace. And Al Barger, Hamas won't play nice with Israel because Israel's actions over the years have displayed nothing but creating an impression of only wanting peace and security, allowing them international support for their continuous land-grab/ethnic cleansing operation. Their operations in the West Bank that started as soon as the Gaza ceasefire came into effect was an example of them not giving peace a chance and not wanting peace.

Dima says: Ps. On the other hand, Ps are allowed to do whatever by the international community, and they usually get away with killings of civilians, etc. So, the Palestinians haven't been subjected to the most major sanctions on an occupied people in the history of the developed world then? For not recognizing Israel when Israel doesn't recognize Palestine, for not renouncing violence, when Israel hasn't and won't renounce violence, and adhering to past agreements, when Israel doesn't adhere to past agreements. Also, Israel has and is transgressing many more international laws than the poorly armed Palestinians have, and killed far more civilians, and never once have they been subjected t sanctions, because the U.S' unquestioning support protects them from the UNSC. You are right about one thing DIMA, this conflict is treated with bias by the international community, but towards Israel not the Palestinians.

IMG,

FYI, the Palestinians didn't ask for Gaza to be free of Jews, they have and will always ask for the same thing. An independent state on the land Israel took in 67, and a just solution for the refugees expelled in 48. The Gaza disengagement was Olmert's idea of a travesty disguised as a concession. It made life ten times worse for Gazans because Israel closed all the borders and tightened all restrictions on things entering and exiting Gaza. They turned it into an open-air prison.

You are all coming at me about Hamas not wanting peace this, and Hamas should stop the terrorism and everything would be fine that, when my article is not sticking up for Hamas one bit. I know that Hamas and Fatah and the other groups supposedly fighting to end this conflict are doing far more harm than good, in a spectrum of different ways. Fatah are too moderate, too corrupt, too far up the U.S. and Israel's rear, but HAMAS ARE ISLAMIC MILITANTS never going to achieve anything post 9/11. I am saying the Palestinian people; one and all need to take charge of their own destiny.

Al Barger,

My poetry site is not delusional, anymore than most of the world was post World War I and II, when they created the UN and NATO
to try and avoid future conflicts. If you like war it is obvious you have never lived in one. Neither have I but I have seen and heard enough to know that only one thing is certain in war, hundreds or thousands of people die, usually innocent civlians. PArdon me if I want world peace, but I gaurantee, if we ever see a war between two nuclear states and heaven forbid the weapons are used, then god help us all. The survivors will never want to see another war.

We could all just throw our hands up and say war is inevitable -- I for one am unwilling to accept that humanity cannot userp the imperialism, greed, corruption and power-hunger that starts wars some day.

If India populated Gaza Ghandian non-violence would be possible. But had India populated Gaza there would be no problem.

If the Palestinians of Gaza show your non-violence quickly, then surely Israel will work it out with them. If not they should be assimilated into the rest of the Arab world. The world that adores them so much that they use them as pawns and human shields for "errant bombs". Surely all those Muslim nations of the mid-East can provide an Exodus.

Otherwise their violence is unacceptable (if the mass murderer who kills your wife is poor will you be forgiving of his pain?).

Poverty is just not a good excuse for bombs and rockets. I doesn't even make a good excuse in the US for guns and gangs.

#9 -- Liam Bailey

"But anyone with half a brain knows that a just solution to this conflict will result in Israel returning East Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state.

Now you're finally gettin to the heart of the matter, which your opinion article did not. This is everything lock stock and barrel (no pun intended).

Liam, do you know why the Jews want Jerusalem and will not settle for less? It takes more the half of a brain to understand it. Let see if you have that much,

Israel wants Jerusalem before it wants peace.

Liam,

Franco writes, Israel wants Jerusalem before it wants peace.

He has a point. Let's put this this way, Liam. When the Arabs are willing to re-institute the land in Mecca the Jews owned that they stole, maybe we can consider giving Arabs some portion of OUR holy city.

Maybe.

You have no concept of the role Jerusalem plays in the mind of the Jew, particularly the believing Jew. Each day, three times a day, we pray for the rebuilding of Jerusalem. In every single grace after meals or series of blessings after eating, we pray for the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Jerusalem is the center of our spiritual world, even for those of us who do not live there. I used to live in Jerusalem. It was just to damned expensive to stay. But it really tore at me to move from there, and even now, I still spend two days a week there.

Judaizing Jerusalem? It's the best thing that could ever happen! May it continue daily with the help of the Almighty!