What utter rubbish! You fail to point out that in the world of consoles all revisions are either in colour, shape, size or internal components due to say a supplier change. When a new technology is included in a new revision for example the built in ethernet port in a PS2 the early adaptors can still have access to the same technology via an ADD ON.

There will not be a HDMI add on for core or premium owners. This is why we are all moaning. You don't shaft your userbase!

Um, no? You can't just "add" a brighter, sharper screen to your original DS. You need to buy a DS Lite. You can't "add" Windows Vista to a PC bought in 1996. You need to buy a new PC. You can't add HD quality video to a TV bought in 1990. You need to buy a new TV. I couldn't add 1080p support to my old HD set, so I upgraded. That's how the world works.

Also, size and shape can be pretty major changes. Just because it's not a truly technical change in many regards doesn't make it any different. The PS One was far easier to store and allowed for a screen to be attached to it to make it perfectly portable. Hey, I could have waited six years to get one, but I preferred to play and enjoy the games for that time.

Guess what? You paid for a 360 and got to enjoy its games just fine, all the while never even thinking about HDMI was going to change the way you play those same games. Know why? It doesn't change them at all.

Oddly enough, you can still use the 360 and those other products perfectly fine without upgrading. You don't need HDMI. You can add the hard drive. If HDMI is that critical to your set up, just sell the console you currently own and put it towards the Elite. It's really not that complicated. You haven't been shafted at all.

just to throw out to all you xbox fan boys hows your old 360 man it is going to cost you 400 if you bought the old one then another 480 for one with specs that the ps3 have, but then add a hdd drive and it is a total of 1080 not counting tax. wow that sucks. And you can ad a 160gb hard drive to your ps3 for less then 100 dollars i found one on newegg

People complain way too much! First the Playstation fanboys make the argument that the PS2 is better than the Xbox because of games, the fact that it has superior hardware doesn't matter. THEN, they change their views when the PSP comes out and say that hardware is everything and the DS is outdated. THEN the 360 comes out and Xbox fanboys are pleased they have the best system to date with the best games. THEN the PS3 comes out and the Sony fanboys argue that they now have the best gaming console despite not having any games. The 360 fanboys counter by making the argument that it's not about the hardware but about the games and not enough people even have tv's that support HDMI/1080p. NOW Xbox is releasing a HDMI compatible 360 and NOW the 360 fanboys are complaining they have to pay more for a new system to play on their, imagine this, HDMI/1080p TV's!!

In the world of computers and consoles, constant updates are to be expected. You have to constantly update you PC's memory/OS/GPU to play the newest games. When it comes to consoles, pretty much everyone of them go through 2-4 revisions in their lifetime:

NES, SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, Turbo Grafx, TBCD, Turbo Duo, Neo Geo, Neo Geo CD, Sega Saturn, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Playstation, PS3, GBA, DS, Xbox, Xbox 360, and soon to be the Wii as well!

The 360 gamers complained that they didn't have HDMI support and a bigger HDD. Now they have that with the Elite, a new color, black system. Remember when Gamecube sales where down? They released a black then a Silver system to increase sales, and it worked! It only makes sense when 360 sales are starting to decline they release a new color.

Microsoft has delivered to their consumers and what do they do? They complain, start looking for free handouts, and threaten the company!

I agree, Matt. If anything, it's an excuse to buy a new one and put the old one up in the bedroom while I dance around in my diamond shoes and blow my nose with $100 bills.

People are overreacting to this when they should be happy that sites like Major Nelson's allow the consumers to speak directlty to the manufacturer and see results like this.

Bob:

Way to play with numbers. Just because someone paid $400 doesn't mean they can't get quite a bit of that back if they choose to get the Elite. If you don't have a HDTV, than HD-DVD is just as useless as Blu-Ray, so knock the cost of the drive off too. Why pay for a feature if you can't use it? Also, you don't need the HDMI port.

Utterly ridiculous argument.

duuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh i want a xbox i love xbox they make me feel all warm inside, every body thats crying needs to get over it.

To be honest I thought $400 in 2005 was a lot to pay, and am quite happy with that price tag right now. I really like the $400 price tag now in 2007 too. No thanks on the $480 one. Am I pissed off? Nope. The world upgrades, this is no different than Sony putting an Ethernet port on the Slim PS2.

If I had a 1080p set and was into watching HD-DVD movies, I would likely buy an Elite, but I still would not be bitching about it.

I didn't bitch when the DS Lite came out. I don't think many did. So why all the complaints now?

Microsoft is just as evil as Sony, Nintendo. Its all the same, they all upgrade their hardware, even within a generation.

Hey Bob,

The Xbox 360 takes USB hard drives. And as Matt said, you can get something out of your old 360 if you wanted to go out and buy a Elite.

Wait until Sony has redesigned hardware for the PS3, I can't wait to hear all the bitching then.

Matt,

I see the points that you are making, and in many ways I somewhat agree with you.

However, I must say that as a current Xbox 360 owner, I do feel at least somewhat ripped off.

Yes, revisions do happen. However, this is really the first time that something of this calibur has happened to a home console video game system.

You listed a bunch of systems that have gotten revisions earlier. However, most of those revisions were mostly cosmetic to the consumer, and didn't really effect functionality.

When they released the later, top-loading version of NES, it played all of the same games and had the same control ports as the original version. It was just smaller and at that point cheaper to produce. There was no benefit in terms of getting a better picture on your TV as a result of having the newer system.

The same pretty much goes when the SNES got redesigned.

The same also can be said for the Genesis and Sega CD revisions. The 2nd versions of each of those did all of the same stuff, the systems were just designed differently. When Genesis got it's 3rd revision, it was a lot cheaper but could no longer work with Sega CD or 32X. So in that case, the new version actually did less than the older one, so early adopters didn't really feel ripped off.

The PSOne really didn't have any major advantage over the original Playstation other than the option of that add on portable screen, if you wanted to use it. Aside from that, it was the same system, did the same stuff, and just happened to be smaller. And, if I recall, it only cost $50 for the system, so if someone who already had the other version of the system for years REALLY wanted to use that add-on screen, then $50 wasn't a huge amount to pay out. I for one couldn't have cared less about that.

The Saturn got redesigned, but again, that was just cosmetic, there was nothing new there.

You say the Dreamcast changed. Now, I assume you must be refering to the compenents inside of the system, because I don't recall there ever being any physical changes to the exterior of the system. The same goes for Gamecube (except for color options) and Xbox.

The PS2 came out with the slimer model. But again, it really didn't offer anything new in terms of what you could do with it. This one was an improvement because it had less of a tendency to have disc read errors (which is one reason why I personally feel SOny should have given them out to previous customers with malfuntioning systems for free... but that's besides the point). But as far as waht the system was technically capable of and the output display on the TV, there was no difference. In fact, the New version was not compatible with the HD drive that came out and only worked with a few games, so that was a feature taken away from the newer version, and therefore not added after the fact, screwing over older fans.

Sure computers/PCs upgrade all of the time, but they are hardly in the same category as gaming systems.

So, in most of the above cases that I've mentioned, there really wasn't too much of an advantage of having one version of a system versus another other than maybe the later ones being smaller and easier to store. But in terms of the gaming experience that the systems output, it was the same.

The only systems at all that I can think of that have had changes that really effected how the games looks, etc, is the upgrades to the Gameboy Advance and Nintendo DS systems. And even those I wasn't thrilled about, but those systems are at least in more of a reasonable price range.


However, with this new Xbox 360 Elite system, it the first time that a change of this nature has happened in an expensive, home gaming console system to the extent of it having a feature (in this case HDMI) that wasn't present in the previous model and that you can't buy a separate component to add to your existing system.

Your advice about selling the current systems on ebay has it's merrits, but it also has it's flaws. Odds are a lot of people will be doing this to upgrade to the Elite system, so there will be a sudden flood of the older models on sites like ebay, thus making the demand for them much less and having the sales that ultimately result go for less money for each machine.

Also, there is a pardox of sorts that would effect most people from doing this, myself included. Most people probably wouldn't want to go out and get the Elite until they've sold off their older version and gotten that money so they know what to work with before actually going out and making the purchase. However, at the same time, those same people will likely want to migrate their data from the older HD over to the new one. And they can't do that if they've already sold the old system and it's HD. So, there's a lot of risk involved here of either not getting decent money for your system in advance or of losing the memory from your system.

The reality is that no matter how many comparisons that you want to make to other products, this is the first time that something of this nature and calibur has happened to a major system in the video game industry, and naturally it is going to cause contraversy, and rightfully so.

If some people, like yourself, are cool with this, then good for you. But the complainers have their right to complain.

You make the point of saying how there were arguements before about how Xbox fans were saying that HDMI wasn't needed when the PS3 came out, only to now be mad about this change. However, while in both cases these are loud complaints coming from a lot of fans, odds are most of them are different fans and not necessarily the exact same ones.

Granted, a few of them might be the same, but they may have reasons for it.

Frankly, a few months back I really knew very little about HDMI, the quality it offers, the advantages of it, and what it was all about. And I wouldn't have given it a second thought as being of concern.

However, since then, I have gotten my first HDTV, which has 2 HDMI ports on the back, and an upconverting DVD player with HDMI connection. So, I now see what I didn't then. And I would love to get an HDMI connection for my 360 if I could. Granted, the component cables still offer very good quality, but if I can make that better, than that is preferable.

I might eventually settle on just getting the newer separate HD and forget about the HDMI. But even then, $180 for the HD is a pretty big rip off. They should just stop selling the separate 20 gig version and just replace it with the 120 gig at the same price of $100. I know it's not costing them much more to produce the larger version than it was the smaller one, and they would still profit from it.

I do feel on some level that a bait and switch has been pulled on the Xbox 360 fan base to a certain extent. I understand where you are coming from, but people have plenty of reason to be upset.

"When they released the later, top-loading version of NES, it played all of the same games and had the same control ports as the original version."

I also played games perfectly without fighting with them for hours to stop blinking. Also, RF was the only available video option. You paying a little less, but lost the composite jack. Kinda like the original 360 and the Elite, but replace the blinking games with blinking red lights. =;)

"The same pretty much goes when the SNES got redesigned."

It eliminated the ability to output s-video.

"And, if I recall, it only cost $50 for the system, so if someone who already had the other version of the system for years REALLY wanted to use that add-on screen, then $50 wasn't a huge amount to pay out."

It was $99, the screen running for the same price. $200 for a PS One, though some stores did offer discounts rather quickly post launch.

"You say the Dreamcast changed."

I didn't say that. It never did change at all aside from special edition consoles in different shells.

"But in terms of the gaming experience that the systems output, it was the same."

So HDMI is going to radically alter your gaming experience on the 360 over component and VGA? Does Gears of War become a brand new game with all new mechanics and levels?

"so there will be a sudden flood of the older models on sites like ebay,"

Patience. Wait a month or two. If you lived with your 360 this long and didn't have a problem, why the hell do you need to rush in and get the new hardware?

"this is the first time that something of this nature and calibur has happened to a major system in the video game industry"

IT'S. AN. AUDIO/VIDEO. PORT. This isn't the second coming. It's not changing the games. The console can output in its highest resolution as we speak via both component and VGA. The only advantage HDMI brings is a slight video quality increase and higher end audio if you own one of the few recievers on the market that accepts it (and the new formats).

"But the complainers have their right to complain."

No, they don't. I have a HDMI enabled TV. I would like to have the new 360, but I see no reason to rush out and buy it. Again, if you have a 360, what's the problem with the old one? If you don't have a 360, get the Elite.

"which has 2 HDMI ports on the back, and an upconverting DVD player with HDMI connection."

The 360 upconverts as well without HDMI, all the way to 1080p, which many upconverting stand alone players don't do. You only need VGA. No need for HDMI... again.

"I do feel on some level that a bait and switch has been pulled on the Xbox 360"

It's not like this is new news. It's been rumored for months, and the console has been out for quite a while. I'm sure you've played tons of games to justify the cost of the hardware.

It is really sad to read these comments. Its not like this same thing hasn't happened before.

HDMI is not going to make the 360 games you have look all 4D or something. I ran my PS3 with HDMI and component and saw the differences. They were not enough for me to continue using HDMI.

For games, which is what I use my PS3 for, Component and 720p is just fine with me.

There is simply no reason to go barking up a tree because a hardware manufacturer adds a port onto a console.

It is only good for one thing, anyways. Its so Microsoft can match Sony bullet point for bullet point when it comes to HDMI output.

"I also played games perfectly without fighting with them for hours to stop blinking. Also, RF was the only available video option. You paying a little less, but lost the composite jack. Kinda like the original 360 and the Elite, but replace the blinking games with blinking red lights. =;)"

Actually, the issue of blinking/getting games to work right also effected those top loading NES units. I know, because I've had exerience with them in addition to the original version.
Maybe the later one was a little more reliable, but not by much. Sure, the top loading version worked just fine when you first got a brand new one right out of the box, but so did the original version of NES. The same problem eventually effected both systems. I've used top loading NES's that had been around and used for a while, and I still had to shift the cartridge around and find that 'sweet spot' to make the game work correctly.

And actually, I find that when using the original NES, one of the best ways to get the games to work right is to use Game Genie. Even if you don't want to use any codes, it just seems easier to get the games to simply work from the get go.

And the Xbox 360/360 Elite is actually the opposite of the Nintendo situation. In the NES scenario, the later model was cheaper and lost the composite feature of the original (but, if you really wanted that, you could still hunt down the original system).
In the case of 360, the price has gone up and something new has been added that wasn't originally available and cannot be purchased separately now. So, a true option was never given to those who want to jump on board early.
And taking a que from the NES scenario in which those revised systems still had similar problems to the originals, I will wait and see if this red lights of death thing is truely eliminated from the newer 360.



On the Dreamcast note: I said- "You say the Dreamcast changed."

You said: "I didn't say that. It never did change at all aside from special edition consoles in different shells."

But if you look at the list of systems that have gone through revisions that you typed out earlier, Dreamcast was listed there. So unless you were simply refering to those different shells, then clearly there's been some miscommunication.


"No, they don't. I have a HDMI enabled TV. I would like to have the new 360, but I see no reason to rush out and buy it. Again, if you have a 360, what's the problem with the old one? If you don't have a 360, get the Elite."

Just because the HDMI capability isn't a big deal to you and isn't something that you want to complain about doesn't suddenly mean that other to whom it is a big deal don't have a right to complain. With all due respect, it's not like your point of view is the end all/be all determining factor of what everyone else's feelings should be and what their rights are.


At the end of the day, I am torn. Part of me agrees with you in the sense that it is just HDMI, and it's not a night and day difference between component, which I am currently using. But, part of me would still like to have that higher quality connection.

At the same time, when putting HDMI off to the side and ignoring it, I would still eventually like to have the bigger HD. And that will cost $180. Considering that I already paid $400 for my 360, putting another $180 into it brings me just $20 shy of the price of PS3, which really upsets me quite a bit. I've felt that the PS3 price was and still is extremely ridiculous, and the fact that 360 is cheaper has been one of the things that I've liked about it (amongst other things).

Now, not only are they coming out with a unit that costs $80 more than the previously existing top-tier unit, but for those who already have it, to either upgrade to the entire new unit or to just upgrade the HD on their existing one (even if the can sell their old system and/or old HD and get at least some cash back) will ultimately put the total spent on the system close to if not more than the high-end PS3 in most cases. It's pretty ridiculous.

There's really no reason at all that the new HD can't be cheaper. And I know you can get an external generic HD and hook it to 360 via USB, but from what I've heard, you still can't take full advantage of using it to store XBLA games, game data, etc. It's basically only good for music and video. I know those are things that will take up a lot of space on the HD, but still, it's nice to just have one intigrated HD.

All in all it causes a lot of frustration for a lot of people. You can disagree all you want, but they have every right to be disapointed and upset.

Just because it's not a big deal to people like yourself and Ken (and by the way, I respect both of you and often enjoy many of your reviews), it doesn't mean that everyone should jump on the same bandwagon as you guys.

"Actually, the issue of blinking/getting games to work right also effected those top loading NES units"

Then you had a bad unit. The entire problem with the NES was that the carts had to be pushed down, putting pressure on the contacts and bending them. That's not an issue on the smaller unit. Not to say it's a 100% reliable, but when I still had my small unit around, I'd say 90% success.

"one of the best ways to get the games to work right is to use Game Genie."

Exactly. It bypasses the need to push the carts in.

"that you typed out earlier, Dreamcast was listed there"

That's not my list. That was CptBoomstick, comment 4.

"it's not like your point of view is the end all/be all determining factor of what everyone else's feelings should be and what their rights are."

It's not that they're complaining. A little "Aw man, that sucks" is one thing. I'm referring to those people who apparently think an apocalypse is coming and they want some of the money back of their original console because of a HDMI port. Or, worse yet, think that their current system won't work anymore.

The world doesn't work this way, and when the gaming community acts like this, it reflects on all of us.

I could care less if HDMI is the most critical aspect of your set up and you may need to crunch a bit to get the new console. It's all in the actions.

"There's really no reason at all that the new HD can't be cheaper."

Profit margin. Keep in mind these aren't standard hard drives either. They're the smaller types used for laptops, and they truly are more expensive. In the range of what MS is charging. No, but certainly not a gargantuan increase over what you'd pay at a big box retailer.

"And the Xbox 360/360 Elite is actually the opposite of the Nintendo situation"

Not in the sense of a new hardware release though. The people who wait always win out. In this case, it's just not in the price. Should all new model cars be cheaper and come with more features? Half the country would be out of work if that model went into play.

The only real difference is how early the Elite is coming out in the consoles life. I think the DS Lite or GBA SP would be close, but the 360 likely wins out without hard release dates in front of me.

Wow, everyone seems to have a lot to say about this. All I can say is I just hope the Elite doesn't stop Microsoft from doing a price drop in May. I'd really like to see a $100 price drop so that the 360 can go head to head with the Wii. That would be exciting, but with the Elite not coming out until late April, that could very well spoil the price drop. Grr....

Warning, long rant ahead.


Me: "And the Xbox 360/360 Elite is actually the opposite of the Nintendo situation"

Matt: "Not in the sense of a new hardware release though. The people who wait always win out. In this case, it's just not in the price. Should all new model cars be cheaper and come with more features? Half the country would be out of work if that model went into play.

The only real difference is how early the Elite is coming out in the consoles life. I think the DS Lite or GBA SP would be close, but the 360 likely wins out without hard release dates in front of me."


It is the opposite situation in the sense that other than being smaller and probably going down in price to some degree (and maybe the blinking lite issue), there was no real advantage in getting the later version of the NES as opposed to the earlier one. In fact, as you (if I recall correctly) pointed out earlier, the composite cable option was REMOVED from the LATER version of NES. So, it was a cheaper, more basic model aimed more at people who are not die hard gamers, giving them to most basic and common TV hook up at the time, and letting them play these older games for less.

This is what was typcial of the remodels of most systems in the past. They may fix a bug or two (again, the NES cart reading issue, the tendency of PS2 to have disc read errors, etc), but other than that, it was the same experience, or even a reduced one but at a lower price. These new models couldn't suddenly do something (including outputing a better quality signal to the TV) that the previous versions could not. So, there was no real disadvantage to the early adopters in that sense.

You are not the first person that I've heard made the car model comparison.

On another message board that I was reading through, someone pointed out how there are new model cars every year.

But, this is still a very different beast. In these cases you are not comparing 'apples' to 'apples'. Sure, TV's upgraded from black & white to color, and then eventually to HDTV that we have now, and sure, new models of cars come out each year.

But in the video game industry, the closest equivelant to those events in those other industries would be the trasition from NES to SNES, from PS1 to PS2, from Xbox to Xbox 360, etc. Since each industry is different from the others, the time intervals between these upgrades differ (cars are yearly, system generations are roughly every 5 years, and the major leaps in TV technology are even more spread out than that), but the basic concept remains the same.

What Microsoft is now doing is more the equivelant of a car company coming out with the 2007 model of their car, then 3 to 6 months later, coming out with a new 2007 version of that same car model. And that pretty much hasn't happened before on any significant level like this within the video game industry.


And it is cause for a great deal of concern. Because will this now become the norm? Will the early adopters always get screwed? How long should we wait? Who's to say that further upgrades won't happen to the 360, or that in future system situations, a change of this nature won't happen at a different point in a system's life cycle? It's too much of a guessing game.



Though, honestly, I think part of the problem is something else entirely that I haven't seen brought up within this 360 Elite issue. And that problem was that this entire generation of systems came out rather prematurely.

Sure, it was the typical 5 to 6 year time span between generations. But, I think that all 3 companies should have waited a little longer before releasing their new systems.

The reality is that HDTV is still releatively new technology. And while it is certainly on the rise and will soon become the standard (some may argue that it already is the standard as some stores don't even carrey non-HD TV's anymore, but there are still a lot of people with older working sets in their home who won't be rushing out to replace them anytime soon unless they break).

However, the HD technology is still so new that it results in problems with making Game systems that are compatible with them. Nintendo still gets all kinds of criticism for the lack of better, HD graphics (even though people should have grasped and become used to this concept by now). And if it wasn't for their new control style that has caught on like gang-busters, they certainly would be in a tight spot right now.

But on the polar opposite of that is PS3. They chose to go the route of empracing HD to the fullest. But, the result was an absurdly price system that many won't buy because of the amount and is now in 3rd place as a result, despite being the grand champion company during the last two generations. The problem here is that people who don't have HDTV's can't take full advantage of the graphics, and many of those who do have HDTVs have likely bought them recently, may be paying them off via some kind of payment plan, and therefore can't afford to then spend $600 for the system.

Then there's Xbox 360. They launched first to get a jump start, and went more middle of the road than the other two, but now they feel the need to catch up to the higher end of things with PS3 while still offering lower end options. They are upsetting much of their fan base, and they have reason to be upset. Many of the die-hard fans who jumped on early on wanted the top of the line system, only to have a more top of the line version come out after the fact. And that sucks.

Frankly, if these companies had waited a few more years to release their systems, they could have been more optimal for HD technology and much more affordable. But, of course there's that pesky competition issue. Each one wants to beat the others, so no one is going to decide not to make a new system.

See, TV's progress more naturally. It's not like there are TV's and then some other similar viewing device under another name for them to compete with.

Home video technology has been a gray area. Obviously there was the former VHS vs. Beta war, and now something similar is happening with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. But, when looking at VHS (after Beta died out) it was more of a standard, and there was more of a natural flow and transition into DVD, as it should be.

I think if the gaming industry were more like that, with one primary system for each generation, but with the software companies competing against each other to make better games, it would be better off for the consumer. System progression wouldn't be rushed and would happen more naturally, and there would be better, more original games coming out due to true competition. As it stands now, each of the 3 systems will simply remake and rehash their most popular exclusives (sometimes they are good, other times not) to beat the others rather than coming up with something truely new.


But instead, we get rushed systems, rushed games, etc because everyone is too impatient to do things properly. We have systems that are being sold at a loss as well, which really doesn't help thing on the customer service end of things (if they are already losing money on the systems as it is, then they are certainly not going to want to be cooperative and pay out money to fix/replace one that becomes defective).


The overall direction that the gaming industry is going in doesn't seem to be good, in my opinion. Things just seem to get worse and worse in many respects, and this new Xbox 360 issue is just one more example of that.

Microsoft is so unfair!!!!!!!!!
Jeez, now i have to spend 200 more bucks just to buy that bigger harddrive, when people that just buy the "elite" get the whole package plus HDMI for only $479. Microsoft, you're so unfair. I'm buying a PS3 instead.

For a year now many have been asking offical sources if a new and improved versions were to be released. One with features not found, but wanted in the original.

Microsoft told them that there was no new version coming out. Period.

While a console has a 5 year lifespan, a second edition coming out a year later is unfair to those who wanted the PREMIUM setup.

It is even more unfair to those who wanted t he PREMIUM setup and purchased it a month before this secret ELITE edition came out.

And because it will cost us $200 to get the hard drive to make our one year old $400 "Premium" equal to the elite, the bitching and moaning is somewhat justified.

"For a year now many have been asking offical sources if a new and improved versions were to be released. One with features not found, but wanted in the original.

Microsoft told them that there was no new version coming out. Period.

While a console has a 5 year lifespan, a second edition coming out a year later is unfair to those who wanted the PREMIUM setup.

It is even more unfair to those who wanted t he PREMIUM setup and purchased it a month before this secret ELITE edition came out.

And because it will cost us $200 to get the hard drive to make our one year old $400 "Premium" equal to the elite, the bitching and moaning is somewhat justified."

Amen to that. And, even when spending that extra $200, you still don't have the HDMI connection, so you are spending more money and getting less in the long run.

And I've heard people say that 'rumors have been circulating for some time..." and stuff like that, and that may be the case, but the point is that they were just RUMORS!

I've heard many, many, many rumors in regards to the video game industry, gaming consoles, etc. over the years, many of which never amounted to anything.

Does this mean that anytime we here a rumor, no matter how silly or unlikely it may seem, we should just hold off on buying the current product to see if the rumor will hold any water sometime in the future?

Again (as I asked earlier) when is that 'magic' moment when people should jump on board?

I also hate arguements where people say "It's your own fault for buying the system right away" because if it wasn't for the early adopters, then the system wouldn't have enough success to continue on and even warrant any reversions, upgrades, etc. Buying a system early in the game shouldn't be a curse, a punishment, or something for others to scoff at as being a matter of another person's 'fault'.

SO, when malfunctions happen like what did with some of the early 360's, Microsoft should pull out all of the stops to take care of those customers, and people who scoff at those people and tell them that it's their own fault for buying the system right away (but who plan to eventually buy the system, themselves) should instead be THANKING those early adopters for making the system successful enough for them to buy later on down the road.

The same goes for anyone who hasn't bought a 360 yet, plans to get this Elite system, and is posting on message boards telling the current system owners that they should have waited, that it's their own fault, that they have nothing to complain about, etc. Again, instead, they should allow the early adopter's room to complain, and should still THANK them for adopting the system early on, making it a success that is now resulting in this newer version. I mean, honestly, some of these people really need to pull their heads out of their butts.

I agree MS should take care of its early adopter base.

New woners should look at this and think, MS could do this to us, too.

I big mistake by MS was not incorporating 60mm tech and HD-DVD into the Elite. What a waste. The former should be on all 360's, no matter what.

I have thoroughly enjoyed using my Premium XBox 360 system... it has served me well.

Will I upgrade for HDMI? NO - not at this point. Component is good enough...

Will I upgrade for a 120 GB drive? NO - I still can't 'map' to that drive. What good is it? You are better off spending $500 on a networked based storage system...you can get 500 GB or more for that money. I have over 50 GB of music right now...so to call it an entertainment console is a joke. It will NEVER be anything more than a gaming console...albeit the best gaming console out there.

Know whay Apple TV is just 40 GB? Cause you can map ANY HDD (laptop, desktop, or storage) to it...it is just an intermediary...

Lucky for me, I haven't had any problems with my current system...so until they do something great..like 'unlock' this thing to work with everything else...no upgrade for me...

MS need to quit calling this thing a media center...IT IS NOT A MEDIA CENTER!

My two cents..

This pisses me off more than any article i have seen. Obviously i paid the extra money for the premium...because i expected i was getting the best... with no mention of a newer unit coming out 1.5 years later. Game consoles are nothing like other electronic... at least not in the past. playstation sega saturn and n64...one gen. playstation2 xbox...one gen. 360 core/premium Playstation3 ...one gen. Don't bitch slap the 360 users who expected to be buying the top of the line 1.5 years ago. If i had known that the 360 was going to be coming out with a Elite edition then in would have waited. You don't present your original item and then turn on all your loyal customers.

360 user:

Wait, since when does a HDMI port suddenly make a new console generation?

are you people that are talking smack about people complaining even educated?

honestly, i bought the HD-DVD add-on drive with the promise of it's 1080p capability. it's a failure on the designers apparently they weren't smart enough to allow HDMI output on the original box.

Since the majority of HDTV's when the xbox was released did not have VGA. Yes, I'll complain, as should everyone who got shafted by this. The rest of you should seriously contemplate understanding everything about a topic before blasting feces from your keyboards.

"honestly, i bought the HD-DVD add-on drive with the promise of it's 1080p capability."

It can do 1080p, right out of the box.

"it's a failure on the designers apparently they weren't smart enough to allow HDMI output on the original box."

No, they could have put it in just fine. MS lost loads of cash on the Xbox 1 and were finding means to be profitable this gen. HDMI was obviously a way to do that, like any smart business.

"Since the majority of HDTV's when the xbox was released did not have VGA."

1080p wasn't an option on TVs when the system released, and if there were, they certainly would have been out of the normal consumers price range. The 360 didn't even support 1080p at launch.

"Yes, I'll complain, as should everyone who got shafted by this."

You didn't get shafted. You bought a TV without a VGA port and console without a HDMI port. If HDMI was that critical to you, then you obviously wouldn't have purchased the console in the first place. That's your fault.

Fuck you microsoft im goin back to SNES

The thing I find funny is the folks that think complaining about other complaints is a valid argument and stance. Come on people, at least many of them have actual reasons that are explained, your argument is that your tired of hearing what they have to say...in such your intolerance for others opinions really robs your position of validity. How about this, skip what they have to say...don't read their blogs, threads and the like. If you don't like what they have to say, avoid it. But don't spend your time reading something you know your not or wont enjoy, and then march in whining that your tired of reading, hearing or seeing complaints about the subject. Your waste of time was your own doing, either that or your one of two types of people:
argumentative...or intolerant. Lastly, the point(s) made about technology advancing....and that people just need to come to grips with its pace and the effects it makes. You need to swallow a bit of your own medicine : welcome to the ever expanding and progressing Internet, where each and every day people are presented with new ways and more options that allow them to share their opinions, stances and arguments w/the rest of the world.

Ok,im not here to argue with anyones opinions or complaints merely to speak my own mind so here goes nothing.

Ive been reading some of the things people have said and im not going to argue about what they've said because its what they think..you cant stop a person from complaining unless they have a rule in the comment policy that says NO COMPLAINING then clearly they can complain till the cows come home..and people who seem to want to attack others over their views and saying they should stop their complaining well your complaining aswell..not about the same thing but about what they have said so maybe you should think before you type.

Onto the topic at hand then yeah?

I can understand why some feel annoyed by the sudden upgrade the new system and all..and to be honest over here in west australia we dont have the 360 elites yet and to be honest im not even going to bother purchasing one..why?? because the current 360 ive got its just fine..the only thing i'd like to change is the 20 gig hard drive and put on the 120 gig hard drive..as i heard certain sources stating that you couldnt put the 120 gig hard drive on the current existing 360 systems and that they were only compatible with the elite systems.which is probably complete b.s i dont really need 120 gig of space but it would be nice to be able to store abit more extra things on my existing system..im happy with the system..i got the wireless controller the system and 3 games for a pretty much reasonable price..if and when the 120 gig hard drives come out i will more then likely switch my 20 gig and place in the 120 gig but apart from that..in my honest opinion i dont really see the need for the elite system unless your someone guy who HAS to be up to date with all the latest technology and gaming parts and doo dads etc someone who blows more money then he needed to..i dont even see the point in bringing out a newer console..if anything they should of just brought out the bigger hard drive and maybe abit more variety of games..but dont get me wrong im sure that some of the games they have got out are great and the ones that are coming out soon could be good..i dont know that for sure.all im saying i dont see the point in paying for something that just has a few little differences..WOW its HDMI big fucking deal..i am someone who is not particuarly fussy when it comes to gaming i want something that can play games and maybe store abit of music thats all..and having the dvd thing thats great too..not that i needed but ok cool..but unless the current 360 unit that ive got breaks im not upgrading because the one ive got is good enough.

Ok thats all.

People say stop whinning, changes happen, I bought an xbox 360 before the elite came out and yes I was happy with it I still am. But answer me this I went out and bought the bigger harddrive 120GB for 179.00 a litte ridiculas dont you think since there still selling the 20GB For 100.00 come on people dont you think thats a little much for 20GB piece of crap! I transferred all my data from the 20GB to the 120GB Harddrive and I got to thinking well I'll just trade in this 20GB Harddrive thinking since it cost $100.00 new that maybe I could get at least $60.00 for it, you know what gamestop said they give me for it......$25.00 bullshit!!! and then they turn around and are selling the used 20GB drives for $80.00. Some very stupid ripping customers off bullshit going on if you ask me, so don't tell people to stop whinning dumbass!

I agree 100% with the original article. I'm pretty sure the problem stems from the spoiled young age group of users who really don't understand how the world works. Most of whom, unfortunately have access to the internet as they shouldn't, think that they have some kind of special contrived privileges that the rest of the population don't. When I hear statements like "we're being ripped off" and "MS is turning against us", it blows my mind that any adult could ACTUALLY think this way. It's completely illogical.

"People say stop whinning, changes happen, I bought an xbox 360 before the elite came out and yes I was happy with it I still am. But answer me this I went out and bought the bigger harddrive 120GB for 179.00 a litte ridiculas dont you think since there still selling the 20GB For 100.00 come on people dont you think thats a little much for 20GB piece of crap!"


Ahh, but the real point here is that you had a CHOICE to pay an exorbitant amount of money for more HD space and you made the DECISION to do it. If it pisses you off that it cost that much, you might try re-evaluating your financial priorities.

Stop bitching little kids, its called patience. You saw revisions on all systems, and btw the ps2 revision had a network port that the ps2 1st generation didnt have.

We KNOW that systems do revisions for the same price, guess what this is a revision. How many of you bitching actually have a 1080p tv? how many of you have an HDMI connection? If no, are you going bitch and cry cause the 07 has 1080p for the same price and the 06 doesnt? I didnt think so, for people who actually have a 1080p tv, guess what? you dont need hdmi to get 1080p, component WORKS!, i have one myself with both component and hdmi, THEY LOOK THE SAME.

The only advantage is uniting the video and audio signals in one port <----HOLY CRAP THATS NEWS!!!

revolutionary huh*sarcasm*