By the way I didn't include his environmental movement, because I wanted to save that for another article...

Enjoy
Jet

There are no John Denver Fans out there?

dead prick. he sued new order. and over what?

WTF I can't even write a music review without someone spewing venom at me? New Order plagarized the guitar riff from "Leavin' on a Jet Plane" one of Denver's most successful hits.

Jeez

John Denver sucks entirely. There is more talent in the dust on the floor of a New Order rehearsal than Denver will EVER possess. That's not spewing venom at you, Jet, just a stone cold fact. You're being INCREDIBLY over-sensitive recently by the way. Get over yourself!!!

Come on Rosie ... he's like a slice of apple pie ... good, wholesome, and American.

And mate, check out the early haircut. Bloody spectacular. Must be the glasses. I believe Gatesy used him as a role model.

I don't know how to react to that without losing or alienating a friend, so I won't.

Suffice to say tens of millions of fans would disagree with you

Grammy Awards
Grammy Hall of Fame Award, 1998, "Take Me Home, Country Roads"

American Music Awards
Favorite Pop/Rock Male Artist, 1975, 1976
Favorite Country Male Artist, 1976
Favorite Country Album, 1976, "Back Home Again"

Country Music Association Awards
Song of the Year, 1975, "Back Home Again"
Entertainer of the Year, 1975

Academy of Country Music Awards
Album of the Year, 1974, "Back Home Again"

Emmy Awards
Outstanding Variety, Music Or Comedy Special, 1975, "An Evening with John Denver"

Other recognition
People's Choice Award, 1977
Poet Laureate of Colorado, 1977
Carl Sandburg's People's Poet Award, 1982
NASA Distinguished Public Service Medal, 1985
Albert Schweitzer Music Award, 1993
Inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame, 1996

Jet, mate, I really don't mind if the entire planet agreed with you, Denver's music is terminally boring and surely only worthy of receiving an award for complete failure of imagination. Talk about cheesy!

You appear to have me confused with someone who will believe statistics as opposed to their ears. Mind you, I was entertained to see that he won an Emmy for Outstanding Variety, Music or Comedy. I'm guessing it was for the third of those...

Chill out dude!

One exception - there's a song on his Christmas album called "Christmas for Cowboys." He didn't write it, but it was a good choice.

You know Chris, I can see comparing N'synk to Back Street Boys.
Dusty Springfield to Aretha Franklin
The Beatles to the Rolling Stones...


But to fight over comparing John Denver to New Order totally mystifies me.

I only said New Order Plagarized a Denver song (which they were found guilty of doing in court). Lot's of groups have UNINTENTIONALLY done it.

the Rolling Stones untentionally did it with K D Lang between "Has Anybody Seen My Baby" vs "Constant Craving"

the Beatle's George Harrison's greatest hit "My Sweet Lord" is a direct rip off of "He's So Fine, do lang do lang do lang"

The Steve Miller Band's "The Stake" (nobody loves you like the way I do)'s guitar riff is a direct steal from Joe Walsh.

It doesn't mean either is an less talented.

Just because New Order only charted once with a couple of dance hits back in 1986 more than twenty years ago is no reason to cast aspersions, and I wasn't... until now.

Chill out yourself with the hostility!
(:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

new order, new smorder...awards, no awards....environmentalism, unfettered capitalism.

none of it matters to me.

what does matter is that Denver's voice always made me want to shove an ice pick into my ear.

but the wife really liked him. oh well, big world out there.

My point :)

Personally I can't stand Polka music, but that doesn't make the greatest polka band on the face of the earth any less talented than anyone else.

Different strokes for different folks

hey, i've got an uncle in the polka hall of fame.

don't you be messin' with the polka! ;-)

Was he one of the Schmenge Brothers?

the who?

ancient sctv characters.

Jet, first of all we ain't fighting or exchanging hostilities, you're just being a tad over-excited, again!

It's not your fault if you have hideously mainstream musical tastes, as this tragic litany confirms: "James Taylor, Carly Simon, Willie Nelson, Justin Haywood, Bob Dylan, and of course Henry John Deutschendorf, Jr." Puh-lease! Next you'll be extolling the delights of Celeine Dion!!

I'd actually go further than the esteemed Mr Saleski; listening to John Denver makes me want to stick an ice pick into the ear of Denver and all his schlocky fans!

If you like the kind of schmaltzy, sentimental dreck that Denver produced, well, good for you. Just don't expect to get into a chat about music and expect to emerge with your dignity intact, it just ain't gonna happen! LOL

Mr. Rose, Fair enough, which begs the question, If I'm being so way overly sensitive about being put down for my musical tastes... what exactly is your purpose for posting your seemingly hostile (of course I'm reading them all wrong and you're just posting friendly banter) comments here??????????????

Oh and keep in mind that your favored band is just some glitzy dance band that hasn't posted a genuine hit since 1986 and are so under talented that they have to rip off the likes of John Denver in order to make a recording?

Jet, the fact that you consider New Order to be "just some glitzy dance band" is just further evidence that your musical education is sadly incomplete. You're not being put down, my young padawan, you're being contextualised! Try wading out of the shallow end sometime, the water's lovely...

Oh great, now I have this vision of you in a speedo playing lifeguard at the deep end of the pool

Whereas you would be in a lifeguard playing speedo in the shallow end? lol!

As Speedo is a bathing suit, you don't actually play it....

Sigh...

You're very literal minded sometimes Jet.

(:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i've never been able to hear the similarities between denver's song and new order's. also, the fact that denver (or maybe his management, publishers, whomever) sued over one version of the song (the single, "run 2,") and not the original version of the song ("run" from the album technique) has always bothered me. there is very little difference between "run" and "run 2." so why sue over one and not the other?

besides that, new order had a shit-ton of hits in the u.k. and were never really more than a cult band here. i don't really care about hits... and i'm just responding to what you have to say. also, they were the greatest band of the 80s.

and third, don't take it so personally. i just despise john denver (mostly for the soft poop that is his music) because it makes it difficult to get my hands on a copy of "run 2," which is a big gaping hole in my new order 12" collection... they are the only band i really geek out about.

Re: comment 3 ...uh Zing.. you started this!
(:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i did, i did. sorry bout that, chappie. you asked about there being no john denver fans, and i showed up with my anti-john denver junk. meh. i just don't like him very much. i'll like him better once i score a cheap copy of run 2... then, i'll have a record worth some money (that i will never sell) instead of this empty spot in my heart.

Ewww, Dylan and Willie Nelson are sooo bland and mainstream....mustn't listen to them or someone will think I'm not cool! Whatever shall I do?

I said it once and I'll say it again
(:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"As Speedo is a bathing suit, you don't actually play it...."

Well, some people do, but I digress. Speedos (and similar bathing apparel) are known Down Under as budgie smugglers.

Now I'm confused... I thought this article was about John Denver????????

Well maybe you guy don't like Denver's material, but in only a little over a week, this article has been listed on 190 websites according to a Yahoo search.

I have never been a John Denver fan... his music has always been way too boring and rhythmless, but that's cool, people can find folksy pablum interesting if they want to.

But to say that New Order plagiarized him is so off the mark, I'm surprised this even went to court. The two songs are clearly very different except for a three-note riff that could really have turned up in any other band's song. I can think of hundreds of 3-note phrases that I've heard in hundreds of songs but, understanding music as I do, it's never occurred to me that anyone was ripping off these rather common riffs and phrases... they pop up everywhere, or are bound to.

Also, New Order (and their previous incarnation, Joy Division) have been FAR more influential and experimental than John Denver could ever hope to be. Their sound has evolved drastically from Ceremony to Krafty, from gloomy post-punk to jaunty pop to dance classics and to tell you the truth, "Run" is far from one of their best songs. In fact, it's one of my least favorite. New Order never needed to rip anyone off, before or after 1988 (when "Run" was first released). New Order has proven themselves a driving musical force who rarely, if ever, resort to covers or sampling. The idea that they would actually go to any length to plagiarize anyone, let alone John Denver who is nowhere near as popular in England, is pretty ridiculous. I doubt any of these Manchester lads had ever listened to an entire John Denver record in their lives.

By the way, New Order weren't found to be guilty of plagiarism at all, but instead settled out of court. Make of that what you will, but if John Denver was going to make a stink about three notes in one of my least popular songs, I'd let the baby has his rattle too.

I've seen some loony remarks on this board before, but to claim that New Order had more influence on modern music than John Denver is
far beyond rediculous

Oh, Jet, c'm on.

If it weren't for the lawsuit we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Both artists were highly influential. It's as pointless as arguing over who had more influence over Christianity - St Thomas Aquinas or Martin Luther...

Denver played country and light pop and was largely responsible for bringing C&W into the mainstream. New Order played electronic-based indie rock and pretty much invented techno.

Apples and oranges.

BTW...

Public Service Announcement from Assistant Comments Editor:

In case you're all wondering why on Earth the Fresh Comments page is listing everyone's comments multiple times - it's gone insane.

The powers that be have been advised. Waiting to hear back from them.

There are multiple comments because after some people hit Publish... nothing happens, so they hit it agan and agan and again, until it finally gets around to it...

which would've taken the same abount of time if they'd just hit it once and had been patient...

As for JD vs NO it depends on when you grew up and who you were a fan of first...

As for one group swiping another's songs the most famous recent one was when The Rolling Stones did it with their "Has anybody seeeeeeen myyyyyyy Baaaaaabyyyyy" which is KD Lang's "ConnnnnnStaaaaaaat Craaaaaavinnnnnng" wor which Mick had to give her writer's credit before they could release it.

Probably the most famous is the Beatle's George Harrison doing "My sweet Lord" which is a rewrite almost note for not of the Sherelles' "He's so fine, do lang do lang do lang"

Everyone's done it, most fo the time with out realising it.

"There are multiple comments because after some people hit Publish..."

That's not what's happening this time, Jet. It's actually a problem with the Fresh Comment page, not the comments.

So I see E.B. that's on hell of an echo

Ask any modern rock band who their influences are, and Joy Division/New Order will come up over and over, while John Denver MIGHT come up once. It's true that in the US more people have probably HEARD of John Denver, but as far as impacting modern music, why, he's barely modern at all.

U2, the Cure, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Moby, Interpol, Bloc Party, Nine Inch Nails, Franz Ferdinand, Daft Punk, and Smashing Pumpkins are just some of the bands that have been influenced by Joy Division and New Order. The band has been the subject of countless documentaries and two critically acclaimed films, "24 Hour Party People" and "Control" have been released which trace the band and its influence.

While Denver's sound has always more or less been the same, New Order has evolved, which is why they can do a guitar song like "Run" and a electronic dance hit like "Round and Round" on the same album, and even combine the two styles within the same song. With their productions and with their former Manchester night club, the Hacienda, they paved the way for techno, rave and modern electronic music. How many musical movements is John Denver still nurturing?

If you put a John Denver CD and a New Order CD in front of me, I have to say it would be the New Order one that I'd be shoving into my player.

That said, I do owe John Denver a great debt of gratitude. It was at one of his concerts in 1975 that my father-in-law proposed to my mother-in-law, thereby creating a union that resulted in my wife!

Good Grief... I say tomaytoe you say tomahtoe. I grew with JD you guys grew up with NO. everything depends on who you grew up with as to who was your influence. The Beatles influenced more people than both put together.