Blogcritics Comments on Are You Really a Liberal?

Comment by Methuselah on Are You Really a Liberal?

Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:25:19 EDT

Zedd sneers: "You know full well that we have had negative personal savings for two years now." It's not evident that low or negative savings rate is harmful to the economy. Theoretically, low savings rate increases the Economic Multiplier, money velocity, and expands the economy. Empirically, it seems to be true. Apparently, the only successful advocacy of high savings rate is moral: it builds character to save money and defer spending (the moral counter is that it builds character to pay installments on time and payoff ones debts). Politically? In this thread it seems that the rightist Scooter Nalle supports lower savings rate, usually the position of spendthrift socialists, while the leftist Zedd supports higher savings rate, a traditionally conservative desiderata. So much for stereotypes.

Comment by jaz on Are You Really a Liberal?

Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:23:41 EDT

Billy Bob...don't forget your velcro mittens and hip waders yer welcome

Comment by alessandro nicolo on Are You Really a Liberal?

Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:47:32 EDT

Zedd, on #66 perhaps. I just see conservative commentators dealing with contemporary issues with more panache. They definitely treat history (as a historian myself) with more care. Liberals deal wit global issues with the same arguments they used 40 years ago. It doesn't stick anymore. I have to read a truly enlightened liberal take on global issues. If you know some let me know I am always looking for it. Gore Vidal doesn't count. Heard it all before. I'm one of those purple hearts (I take from both cons., lib and libert.) but feel as though they are setting the standards on how to debate. It's funny, I don't see liberals doing all that. I see conservatives taking the lead. Each time I see a conservative (which is rare on television and I don't mean Coulter et al) I find myself interested in what they are saying. A liberal not so much. Especially the Al Franken or Maureen Dowd type. Yeah, things are slightly different in Canada in that ideological lines are more blurred. Harper is probably the most conservative leader we've had in years - if ever. Of course, the West has been influenced by what we call the Calgary school which is lead by an American conservative. Canada as a whole is pretty centrist. Quebec is the most interesting of the Provinces. Overtly liberal, it does possess strong pockets of conservatism. Of course, that comes at a price. We don't have many dynamic debates here. It's rare we have clashes on ideas here. By the way, in case you got confused, Nicolo is my family name. :<)

Comment by Zedd on Are You Really a Liberal?

Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:16:54 EDT

Nicolo Also, if you came of age in the 60's, you are right, the entire Westernized world was changing because of liberal ideas which were mainly forced by the civil rights movement in the US, the boomer population hitting that rebellious age. As for yourself.... when we come of age and encounter the world, it's ALL so fresh and stimulating. I struggle these days to find newness and intrigue. What makes us wiser with age is that we have heard and seen it all. My teenager's intrigue with "going out" is corny and boring to me. Each stage of her life as been soooooooo cool to her and all I see is a little girl. Perhaps your amazement was more due to your newness and not the newness of ideas.

Comment by Zedd on Are You Really a Liberal?

Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:02:43 EDT

Nicolo Sorry. Something weired happened and one of my paragraphs got cut off. As I was saying... I am curious, what shifts in conservatism to you deem to be progressive and responsive to today's needs? The only shift that has occurred in the US is how they sell themselves. Notice I said "themselves", meaning getting votes. The ideas have actually died down. There is no conservative agenda. There is a lot of name calling, and distortion (some would call it lying). That has been the shift in conservative politics. No innovative ideas. No shifts in addressing current issues. Actually what has happened is a vehement head in the sand approach towards just about EVERYTHING that needs to be addressed. If it doesn't fit my idea about the world, its to be ignored. That includes foreign policy, scientific realities and social warnings. Help me see the evolution in this. I am certain that you are reading propaganda or are reading ideas by people who are stagnant within the liberal camp.

Comment by Zedd on Are You Really a Liberal?

Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:54:23 EDT

Nicolo sez: "They define themselves more in relation to what the other guy is doing and less to what they should be doing" Inherent in the job description of one who works for the powerless is the occupation of responding to the actions of the powerful. I suppose that the political climate is somewhat different in Canada than in the US as are definitions of political terminology(?). Its quite funny that you see conservatives as progressive. The entire notion of conservatism suggests a willing stagnation of sorts. I am curious, what shifts in conservatism to you deem to be progressive and responsive to today's needs? The only shift that has occured in the US is how they sell themselves. Notice I said "themselves", meaning I see liberals as spearheading the use of today's multimedia to communicate their ideas. I see libs as focusing on global ideas. I see libs as focusing on social welfare issues but from the ground up (proper eduction, innovative incentive programs, etc).

Comment by alessandro Nicolo on Are You Really a Liberal?

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:26:07 EDT

Zedd, thanks for the take. I remain unconvinced. Liberals were once pretty cutting edge. I don't think Liberals are selling themselves well right now and nor are they evolving. They seem to cling to old notions and are applying them to modern context. Look at the Democrats: all shouting with little substance. Those Iraq resolutions are plain ridiculous. Same with the "Liberals" up here in Canada. It's recycled ideas. That's what I mean. I'll give a personal story; I read a lot; like an apolitical junkie. I have been subscribed to several publications since I was a teenager. I once found myself intrigued by liberal thought and explored it. 20 years later, they are still saying the same things. In the meantime, I have seen conservative thought evolve as well as libertarianism (if you want to call it a legitimate competitor of conservatism and liberalism). Ironically, it is conservatives who are carrying the tracks laid down by old liberals. In fact, even religious philosophy/theology has found new life. Liberals progress with little thought to classical knowledge and eshew a little too easily facts - and a strain of them are a little to vulnerable to conspiracy theories - that do not meet the preogressive outlook they have prescribed. I have said it before and will say it here: Liberals seem to have a hard time interpreting and grasping basic tenets of economics. I won't even touch socialists. That doesn't mean they are losers or are idiots: just caught in a vortex of confusion. They define themselves more in relation to what the other guy is doing and less to what they should be doing to create a concise and organized philosophical base that resonates with true moderates. Anyway, that's just my observation. I could be blatantly wrong.

Comment by Lumpy on Are You Really a Liberal?

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:08:51 EDT

Wow. Moonmaiden, mistress of the 4th grade level comeback.

Comment by Billy Bob on Are You Really a Liberal?

Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:27:09 EDT

Where are my pictures?

Comment by MCH on Are You Really a Liberal?

Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:56:50 EDT

"I'd love to compare the post-to-cite ratio of Mr. Nalle to "moonraven" ..." - RJ Elliott "Why not just do it, asshole?" - Moonraven Because in the world of phony rhetoric, words speak louder than actions.

Comment by Zedd on Are You Really a Liberal?

Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:27:02 EDT

Dave #42 - I missed this post. You've got to be kidding? This couldn't be just an error on your part. You know full well that we have had negative personal savings for two years now. What are you trying to do?? Can we up the integrity quotient just a tad please.

Comment by Billy Bob on Are You Really a Liberal?

Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:00:00 EDT

RJ#57. moonbat is the one with a larger talleywacker.

Comment by RJ on Are You Really a Liberal?

Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:16:34 EDT

I'd love to compare the post-to-cite ratio of Mr. Nalle to "moonraven" ...

Comment by RJ on Are You Really a Liberal?

Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:13:32 EDT

"He [Dave Nalle] has some fucking nerve--has never done anything on this site except INVENT statistics, sources and percentages." LOL!!!

Comment by STM on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:40:37 EDT

Dave wrote: "Rather than totalitarian (which is too extreme a term) vs. open society (which is a sort of vague term)), I like to say that it's a struggle between statists and individualists. I think that sums it up better." Given to us by societies that have decreed WE are the true arbiters of that choice, NOT our governments. Our elected governments exist only to do the will of the people. And as dreadfully kokey as that all sounds, it happens to be true. Despite the imperfections, it is why they have worked all these years and give us all a measure of stability that many others don't enjoy. As much as I hate the right-wing policies of John Howard, he was elected by a majority of Australians. That is the way it is - just part of the democratic process. Just as it will be that when enough people are pissed off, he'll get the punt.

Comment by zingzing on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:01:08 EDT

are we arguing about the semantics of arguing about the semantics of arguing about categories for political alleigences? state vs individual, eh? who wants an all-powerful state? who wants anarchy? so it's not that simple again.

Comment by Dave Nalle on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:45:52 EDT

I tend to see political tension as a totalitarian vs. open society fight. Open society advocates,(the good guys), can be found in both the liberal and conservation camps as can the promoters of totalitarianism. Very good point, Mojiho. Which is why sometimes those of us perceived as being on the right find that we have more in common with some perceived as being on the left than with others who claim right-ward allegiances. Rather than totalitarian (which is too extreme a term) vs. open society (which is a sort of vague term)), I like to say that it's a struggle between statists and individualists. I think that sums it up better. Dave

Comment by Arch conservative on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:21:59 EDT

And you Moonraven have done nothing but spread bullshit leftist proaganda.

Comment by moonraven on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:55:20 EST

Amazing that someone like Dave Nalle should ask for sources and facts!!!!!!! And then he browbeat the person who didn't give them!!!!!!!!! He has some fucking nerve--has never done anything on this site except INVENT statistics, sources and percentages.

Comment by Doug Hunter on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:42:12 EST

There is a symbiotic relationship that exists between left and right that can be understood if you realize the following truths. For those on the right. 1) The more socialism a society can handle the farther it has progressed. 2) If changing societies rules means you're not a winner, you never really were. For those on the left. 1) Wealth must be created before it can be redistributed. 2) Money is not a sign you should do something for someone, it is a sign that you already have.

Comment by Mohjho on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:25:00 EST

Nice try Selwyn, but trying to define conservative/liberal is as pointed out, contextual. What they say they are, is not always expressed in action. I tend to see political tension as a totalitarian vs. open society fight. Open society advocates,(the good guys), can be found in both the liberal and conservation camps as can the promoters of totalitarianism.

Comment by Zedd on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:19:02 EST

RJ Admittedly, I am not an expert on economics however, using per capita stats to reflect the economic condition of the population that we are speaking of (working class to lower middle class) does not serve us well. Also as you are fully aware, the swelling in the net worth of the middle class is due to the recent years of inflated real estate prices. We are all comfortable the notion that those prices are beginning to drop. Now concerning real estate prices and net worth, as you know, there have been predatory lending practices that have contributed to unusually high income to debt ratio loans allowing people the ability to purchase more expensive homes (less affordable), which ends up driving the housing market higher and produces the current prices and higher assets (on paper). I am certain that you are also aware of the risky lending practices which have enabled people with poor credit to participate in home ownership..... A challenge that we face are record foreclosures. The fear is that as interest rates climb and home devaluation continues, we will see more such cases...... Facts are fun when reasoned. Perhaps when I return from my vacation you would have drummed up more fun facts for us to discuss.

Comment by Arch Conservative on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sat, 10 Mar 2007 07:53:10 EST

"banning trans-fats- protect rights of the consumer from company" First of all....anyone who believes that the government should ban trans fat is a fucking moron. I suspect that these are the same people who would say it's ok for someone to sue Mcdonalds for making them obese. What people like this fail to realize is that the individual must be responsible for making responsible decisions about what they put in their body. If the restaraunt you choose to eat at does not provide nutritional information about their product then the individual can choose not to eat there. But please don't eat Mcdonalds or KFC every day, fail to exercise and then sue someone else for you're weight issues. if anything you should sue god for not giving you a working brain. Second.......... the separation of church and state issue that is so routinely misinterpreted by liberals/leftists. The entire first amendment reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" This means that the government cannot endorse one specific religion. "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" this means that the government cannot prohibit citizens from expressing their religion whether in public or private. This is the point that leftists/liberals like to ignore. The ACLU has many time sued schools for allowing indivdual students to mention Jesus in graduation at ceremonies. It is actually the ACLU that is acting contrary to the constitution and not the student or the school as that student has the right to the "free exercise" of their religious beliefs. A student mentioning their religious beliefs during high school graduation is in no way representative of the government endorsing one religion. The only people that believe it is are the far left secularist commandos who have a problem with Christianity and want to eradicate it from our society.

Comment by Zedd on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sat, 10 Mar 2007 03:13:09 EST

RJ: Hitler was quite a unifying force for Germans wouldn't you say? He tapped into the German work ethic and commitment to excellence and produced a powerful and formidable force in a relatively short time. He was an amazing leader, a charismatic spokesman and a patriot. He was goal oriented and an incredible strategist. He knew how to utilize people's best talents and to coordinate them to meet the corporate end. Would you agree?

Comment by RJ Elliott on Are You Really a Liberal?

Sat, 10 Mar 2007 02:33:21 EST

See: Facts are fun!