Adam Ash on how picking a president is like picking out a new pair of shoes...

Try and think of anyone who can outsmile Barack Obama. Just try.

Took me about 1 secod - Jack Nicholson. Plus he's slightly more qualified to be president.

Dave

Apparently Mr. Ash has a very low opinion of the intelligence and reasoning ability of African Americans:

By the time the primaries come, Barack will have 100% of the black vote, which is 100% of the Democratic base. He will not only have 100% of the black Dems, he'll have 100% of the black Republicans, and 100% of the blacks who don't vote but will vote because he's their guy. Black kids of 18 who never thought about politics or voting before, will come out to vote for him. Black voters will get up from their deathbeds to vote for Obama.

And his opinion of women (despite his claim in his bio of being a feminist) is even lower:

Those women won't be voting for Hillary because she's a woman, they will be voting for Obama because they're women -- and he's the sexiest male candidate ever. A dream date. They will be CREAMING for Barack...The fact of the matter is, America is going to take her panties off for Obama.

So let's see; in just two paragraphs he's managed to condescend to and insult more than half of the population.

Way to go, Mr. Ash.

I hope your right... Im from Australia and usually dont follow American politics all that much but I am smitten with this man.. his charisma just draws you in. I think the world would hate America a little less if you vote for Obama heheehe

That his victory might please the villains around the world who dislike America is a good reason to vote AGAINST Obama.

Dave

i love the writeup, its so true. However each day it seems just too good to be true. I just feels I will one day read some article where he does a Howard Dean or something just happens to derail what appears to be the best thing yet in a long time for politics, its about time because after Cheney/Bush OMG....

"The fact of the matter is, America is going to take her panties off for Obama."

Lets just hope his morals are as good as his smile.

I agree with everything you wrote, except "nobody can out-write him", could be true, but I like Mario Cuomo for that point.

Absolutely spot on Adam, in your deliciously irreverent way. Barack's the man!

Great article Adam..At this point I don't know who I will vote for between Hillary and Obama but I will vote for one of them...Your assessment of Hillary"s vote on the war is right on ...how come I knew everything everything Bush was saying was total BS on going to war...how come I knew that everything that is happening today i predicted...so if I knew all that how come Hillary and the rest voted to give the worst president in history the power to invade another country...so at least Obama was not stupid on this issue..
It bothers me that he lacks experience but Bush has been in there for 6 years and he still does not know what the hell is going on..
One thing is for sure Adam ...If Obama does not make it another Democrat will because Repubicans have bankruped this country both financially and moraly..

Ashamed as I am to admit it, Adam's description is exactly the way I feel/felt about Obama, especially after I got to meet him in the flesh, & hear him speak: all melty & giggly, rejuvenated & energetic - me, not him. I desperately, deeply want him to be able to escape the clutches of the 'old pols' & their backroom conspiracies to promulgate & perpetuate their stranglehold on the US economy & political power irrespective of which party is ruling. I don't want any more dynasties; indeed, we should have a new law that no one in any family can enter politics until the 4th generation after an officeholder. This country was not supposed to be founded on dynastic powers, remember? And he IS intellectual, & smart, & outside the box. His sheer humanity is what is so appealing. He doesn't pretend to be God - or to have God's ear, or to be the recipient of God's personal coaching (unlike some people I could name currently holding office). And he's CLEAN. Until proven otherwise, he has no skeletons in his closet, no hidden draft dodging, etc. So far the worst that can be said of him is that his middle name is "Hussein", he attended a school in the Phillipines (that was proven to NOT be an Islamic militant madrissah), & he doesn't have a whole lot of experience. This last point makes me laugh, because it indicates how far out of touch the professional pols & pundits areto try to make that a detracting reason against him: for THIS member of the public, at least, that's a PLUS, that he isn't mired up to his eyebrows in whoring for the party or the existing Old Boy Network of ex-Yalies & Preppies currently in power. Finally, his color is (for me at least) truly irrelevant, since I don't think of him as black first, probably because he himself doesn't present himself as black every time he steps into a room or opens his mouth - but that he IS black is the frosting on the cake. As another commenter here at BC said on another thread, I want a good President who happens to be black, not a Black who happens to be President. I don't want him to be a credit to his race, I want him to be a credit to America, race be damned. That's what the old pols, the pundits, & the MSM can't understand & never will, because they can't get their heads out of the canyons of tradition & habit they're in. I hope, like Bugs Bunny eluding his pursuers, he can run, jump, & wisecrack his way out of their corrupting & corrupted clutches.

I knew there was a reason for not voting for Hillary, but couldn't put my finger on it. Adam's article has clarified my thinking & feelings on this matter. She must have known the WMDs were just BushCo BS - she's not stupid. She DID know - and voted for giving the keys to the kingdom to Dubya & his neocon puppetmasters, because like most other professional pol Dems, she was/is too craven to speak out, stand up, & be counted. I don't want someone who thinks & acts in terms of political expediency. Fuck them. I've had it up to here with that kind of pol. They've done their best to rape & ruin this country & the working people therein. They represent their own best interests & that of their corporate owners, not the people they swore to represent. I'm sick of liars, connivers, cheats, thieves, & all the rest of the Pecksniffian panorama of professional politicians. Thank you, Adam. I knew there was a reason not to vote for Hillary; now it's crystallized, & it's the same reason I'll never vote for McCain, Giuliani, or any of the rest of them.

The $6 billion-dollar-question will be, Can he get the Dem party nomination? Will they be willing to pick him as a winner over one of their own of the Old School - or will they be unwilling to nominate an Outsider who isn't willing to join in their happy plundering, double-dealing, double-talk, & inertia? We'll see, I guess. Meanwhile, I do hope many, many more wake up & jump on the bandwagon of Barak Hussein Obama, because as far as I'm concerned, he's about the best thing to come along since the sad, unfulfilled promise of Ross Perot.

This is about as well reasoned as anything Adam Ash writes, meaning not very. Adam's reasoning puts style over substance, I mean please! He will make a good president because he smiles well and people like him? Sorry but that won't be enough to sustain him in this long, long campaign.

Proof of the racists views of the lefty loons...Adam and Nancy are raciss due to the fact they really believe that the following words are actually spoken in the black community.

"Das right...all of us po dumb black folk are gonna shuffle down to the votin boots and vote for da black man...cause da democratic boss man say we gotta vote dat way."

They are wrong! In fact once Obama comes out of hiding and the press finally shines a light on him..he will wither away to the little insigifcant punk that he is!

JOM

I'm still thinking Obama has only two possible chances...

1. gets picked for a VP spot - here he will do great, his speaking abilities and the fact he really can fire up a crowd, and bring some votes to the table would make him valuable, and 8 years as VP would solve the "experience" thing for any detractor

2. he gets an older, wiser head picked as his VP VERY early in the process...someone with foreign policy/military experience...this would solve the "experience" problem in the same way it was done for Bush by putting Cheney in the #2 seat

anything else would be a tough row to hoe... but something like a Richardson/Obama or Obama/Wes Clark ticket could possible wipe the field

just a Thought

I suppose I could even go for an Obama/Clinton ticket. She's tough, cunning, experienced, & a battle-toughened political snake as well as a survivor. Plus this would give us a black/woman ticket - hard to beat in terms of PC for those that think that way, to be sure, & sure death for any opponents to try to attack without looking either racist or misogynist. If the Dems are smart, they'll go for that.

JOM...what a stupid statement you just made...here's a newsflash for you...the press has already put the light om him and now the blacks who where for Hillary are now flocking to Obama..trust me ...I am from Illinois and he has no skeletons in the closet..he also attacked the veterans administration 2 years ago for just the shit that is going on right now ...excellent post Nancy !

he isn't mired up to his eyebrows in whoring for the party or the existing Old Boy Network of ex-Yalies & Preppies currently in power.

Yeah we will be going back to the Harvard boys with Obama, Quite a switch isn't it?

He doesn't pretend to be God . . .

Ah, but his followers tend to treat him like a promised Messiah. Truthfully, Nancy, your post really makes me laugh. The feelings you described in your opening, describing hearing Obama speak, would probably be the same as a religious person attending one of those mega-churches.

he attended a school in the Phillipines . . .
It was Indonesia, not the Philippines, If I remember correctly. I am sure all those countries over there blend together for you.

What is interesting to me is that most people talking about Obama cite just the things that Ash and Nancy talk about, feelings, with only the Iraq war thrown in as a token policy position.

The truth is, Obama says the same thing that other Democrats do, for the most part. The difference is the packaging, and only the packaging. after listening to his speeches, I have always asked myself, where is the beef? It is all fluff and marketing. Obama is a cotton candy candidate, sweet but not filling.

Nancy...no fucking way would Hilary take the second spot...i'm betting her people are trying to get Obama to commit to her VP spot every day

just don't see Hilary taking it in the General...too much baggage, and i know a lot of Independents such as myself that would never vote for her

.no fucking way would Hilary take the second spot.

Quoted for truth (copyright 2007 by jaz)

@#15:

.he also attacked the veterans administration 2 years ago for just the shit that is going on right now

There's NOTHING untoward going on at the VA right now; Walter Reed is an ARMY HOSPITAL, NOT VA...

understood Clavos...

but some of the problems are with the aftercare stuff, as has been pointed out other places

and it appears much of that fall sunder the Va, who contracted quite a bit out under Rumsfeld... it's some of this where problems arise

still too early in the investigations to tell, and a proper distinction to make between WR and the VA

still too early in the investigations to tell, and a proper distinction to make between WR and the VA

All I'm trying to do: keep the distinction until proven otherwise.

My comment wasn't for you and others who know the diff...

If this guy, who is capuccino OUT OF THE JAR, gets the nod as president it will become clear that US voters have learned absolutely NOTHING from the disaster of the Bush administration of terror.

I hope you get exactly what you deserve.

so much for reason, or the milk of human kindness for that matter...

jaz:

Nooooooooo!

Pandora's Box again...

lol..i know, Clavos

but it bloggles my mind to read Obama being equated to Bush in any fashion

from all indications, it appears as if a good sized portion of our Nation is beginning to not see color, or gender...gaining ground on the sexual preference bit too

far from perfect, but there are plenty of indications that progress is being made

example: in November, Harold Ford got the numbers he was polling at in his race...he lost, but the brand new thing which escapes most folks is this...

prior to that election, many times people would tell a pollster they would vote for a candidate of color, and then not do so on election day...leaving a huge disparity between the polls and the vote...not in this case, almost spot on

which means folks did what they said and did not "hide" in the anonymity of the voting booth

add to that all the women that got elected in places that one would not normally consider conducive to a female candidate....same principles as the Ford race applied

a very Hopeful trend, don't you think?

still too early in the investigations to tell, and a proper distinction to make between WR and the VA

All I'm trying to do: keep the distinction until proven otherwise

It has been proven and was and still is a hugh scandal in Illinois that veterans with missing limbs etc etc where not getting paid for thier disability in proportion to what other states where paying for the same injuries ..Obama stepped up to the plate and fought the VA...also it is a known fact the bush administration plans more cuts in funds to the VA which will only make things worst for veterans..

Of course I do.

It's a win-win...as long as the majority sitteth (or standeth) on the right...:>)

It has been proven and was and still is a hugh scandal in Illinois that veterans with missing limbs etc etc where not getting paid for thier disability in proportion to what other states where paying for the same injuries

This is true, and in other areas of the country as well. But, it's not due to lack of funding or to outsourcing; it's due to unequal application of VA guidelines by regional centers, and is (being or has been) corrected. Also, it is not a health care issue; it's a compensation issue.

The Walter Reed issue is about outpatient aftercare, and the VA is being unfairly tarred with the same broad brush.


also it is a known fact the bush administration, plans more cuts in funds to the VA which will only make things worst for veterans..

Those cuts are to the budget requests, not the budget itself, and they happen every year, to every Federal department.

In point of fact, during the Bush administration, the VA budget has grown from $50B a year to more than $80B for FY 2007.

Totally agreed, jaz - her ego wouldn't let her take a 2nd to Obama, at least, I don't think so. Meanwhile, yes - it IS very heartening that very few people I have read or talked to even consider the fact that he's black to be a factor. About the only ones who seem to do so are the professionals: the pols, the pundits, & the MSM, who all squawk & make a big deal about it.

MR, the problem is, in order to get a 'clean' candidate, the voters have got to have someone who hasn't been in politics for a loooong time, who hasn't given the professionals too much chance to get to him/her to sink their claws in to drag him/her down into the mire with them - or the corporations, for that matter. Bush was a tool of the oligarchy/corporations from the inception; he was corrupt from the get-go; his track record, his character map, if you will, was evident from the beginning & all the crap he pulled while in school & he went downhill from there. You can't expect someone who starts out as a spoiled, stupid, arrogant cheat, coward, & liar to get any better, & he has continued in the way he started. Another glaring indicator that something was wrong w/Dubya was the company he keeps: Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz, Rove ... if nothing else, that alone should have been a red flag for voters with any brains. Most certainly it should have set off the MSM, but it didn't, tho whether from stupidity, vapidity, or sheer negligence could be debated. I'm certain it wasn't ignorance - on the part of the MSM, at least. On the other hand, Obama keeps no such company. I've been looking at those he surrounds himself with, & I see no equivilents of the pack of sleazebags surrounding Bush. AND as Georgio points out, if nothing else, Obama has spoken his convictions & voted them in public from Day One, willing to go on record with them, which shows he's got a spine. How much we'll find out. But I suspect if there really were any dirt on him, it would have come out in prior political campaigns. As it were, the only thing anyone has come up with so far has been that manufactured Swift Boater lie about him going to a madrissah. If that's the worst, then he practically walks on water, IMO. In any event, I'd rather have cappocino out of the jar or anywhere else, than muck from the ranks of professional pols.

The US voters have not elected anyone even marginally not a sleazeball since 1976.

They believed that they got burnt with Carter because he wasn't tough enough.

You folks prefer bullies, every time.

Go for it, again.

You folks prefer bullies, every time.

That is why we love you here.

Even your attempted insults do not make sense.

They make sense to everyone but you, Moon.

dave

Is it just me or is comment #22 just pure, undiluted racism?

Dave

Back to the topic -

I find it interesting that the Democrat desire to run a 'dark horse' is still active after all these years and so many disasters with unqualified candidates. The party's vulnerability to populist demagoguery has been its undoing int he past and likely will be again.

To Obama's credit he's better qualified for the Presidency than Woodrow Wilson, but on the other hand he's less well qualified than a series of disastrous candidates like Jimmy Carter and William Jennings Bryan.

Come to think of it, Obama reminds me a lot of Bryan. He's charming, a great speech maker, appealing to the plebes and utterly hollow.

Dave

Clavos sez - "It's a win-win...as long as the majority sitteth (or standeth) on the right...:>)"

ummm...we just had a few years of that, and it turned out to be a complete fiasco, didn't it?

divided government, with no single party controlling it all...better for our Nation, imo

Dave: You are one person--at MOST.

Saying you represent everyone else on this site, or the cause of freedom of speech, or anything else is just pure ole Texas cowshit.

I like REAL capuccino--not pretend cap from a jar.

That ain't racist.

Your "dark horse" comment is far more racist.

And you don't seem to even have the sense to get that we agree that the guy is complete fluff--just a media concoction.

You are so confused I expect you to vote for him.

It's so ironic to see the racism "SeePing" from people who hate or disagree with the article written by Mr. Ash who has a right to his opinion.

He is correct in his assumption. It's like Hillary knows she not going to win, she's scared, so scared you see it any time OBAMA is around, even though she's trying to hide it. BILL IS RUNNING WITH HER ON FEAR, EXCEPT TALKING TO FRIENDS IN SC, AND FROM THE LOOKS OF THE ALABAMA VISIT, IT'S BACKFIRING. SHE NEEDS TO DUMP BUBBA IF ANYONE IS TO TAKE HER SERIOUSLY, THE WAY IT LOOKS BUBBA IS TRYING TO GET BACK IN.

HAD HE NOT BEEN PARADING AROUND THE WORLD HOLDING BUSH SR.'S HAND SHE MAY HAVE HAD A CHANCE, BUT HE IS SPOILING IT FOR HER!!!

More people are racist than care to admit. The blacks writing he's not black have that ingrained self-hate going on that the slave owner instilled in them. Get over it all self-haters, OBAMA WILL BE ELECTED PREZ IN 2008! WHAT'S ESPECIALLY DAUNTING TO MANY, WHITE WOMEN CAN IDENTIFY -- HE COULD BE THEIR SON!!! I LOVE IT!!! FOR THOSE SAYING HE'S NOT BLACK ENOUGH, IGNORANCE IS BLISS AND THE JOURNALISTS WHETHER BLACK OR WHITE ARE PULLING OUT THE TRUTH SERUM WITH THEIR HATE RHETORIC.

What is the truth serum broadcasting? Many MSM Black journalists are jealous, filled with self hate, and can't stand Obama, the junior senator is a true American, living the American dream as MLK put it! They write negative articles with division in their hearts! They have no journalistic proof to their hatred causing them to shed their wolfs clothing. It's good on both the black as well as white side of American rhetoric of self-hate and ignorance as it relates to race, bigotry, and downright evil. MSM White journalists writing negative articles are seeping racism that they would never think of permeating on a JFK, JR. had he lived.

BARACK OBAMA is the JFK that we would have elected had JFK lived!! Get over the racism, self-hatred and know most Americans want a refreshing look at the country without the BS Democratic or Republican rhetoric!!!

Where do you fruitcakes come from?

Most folks in the US couldn't care less who is president.

They want to be left alone to watch t.v., eat junk food, become obese and beat off in XXX internet sites.

That's it.

Where do you fruitcakes come from?

To quote someone else. "Pot, meet kettle."

Aku:

Fuck off with the silly cliches. Even you should be above such complete foolishness.

Having a great smile does not mean his qualified to lead the country, he would have a better chance in the modeling industry.
Being sexy don't mean he will get mojority of the womens votes. We're not talking about the Grammy's, we don't vote for him just because you think he's sexy.
All you've been mentioning is how great his smile, how sexy and charming Obama is, but obviously that's all he has. I don't know who I'll be voting for yet, but your statement isn't helping Obama, just making look useless.

Besides that, he's hawkish on Iran.

He's just going with the flow--trying not to make any real waves.

And modelling DOES sound like a much better option.

I'm not racist, but having an African American as president worries me.
Today, majority of the people on the street harassing, and robbing homes are African Americans. I've been stoped by them on the streets telling me to give them my money. I've been to restaurants where the little kids just walk up to the glass window spit and puch the glass and run away laughing. What's going to happen when they have a BROTHER in the HOUSE?
It's not going to make them proud and change. All they say is: "Hey yall, we have a brother in the house, we are that much more powerful"

So you are afraid?

Bush did his job well.

booooo, just get a Glock and shoot the little bastards. Im serious dude. Moonraven, notice this time I called you Moonraven and not moonbat. Your comment #41 is 100% correct. We have an ignoramis society of lard ass, t.v., watching, and junk food dumb asses. Our men dont beat off looking at our women/whales at the local Wal-Mart. Thats why they spend so much time on the xxx internet. Americans believe this happy shit is a right and will be here forever.

I'm not sure what you mean by I'm afraid?
And Bush did his job well?

I just think someone who can lead and have more controll should be elected, not someone that might bring more problems.

I have nothing agains Obama, just against the posible problems.

Like so many say, Bush had the experience and did nothing good, but without experience can be worst.

moonraven, do you know what "dark horse" means?

sr: "Our men dont beat off looking at our women/whales at the local Wal-Mart. Thats why they spend so much time on the xxx internet."

...a glimpse into sr's world.

fantastic.

THANK YOU ZINGZING.

Ash you sound like the Hollywood crowd.

You have completely lost your objectivity however.

Have you seen videos and pics of JFK when he was young? No one is sexier, not even Mr. Obama. My son is law looks just like him too.

If he is JFK and MLK rolled into one...then you know what white America could do to him if he should win.

You left that unsaid. It 's the fI^**^n end of the world anyway according to scientists. Not even Gore can save us if the poles shift or the black hole gets hungry.

So the women (and apparently men like you) should just lay back and enjoy the Obama-Drama.

Heloise

Clav wrote: "It's a win-win...as long as the majority sitteth (or standeth) on the right."

Nah, time for a change Clav ... time America moved back to the centre.

Stan the Man from Ozzie land sez - "Nah, time for a change Clav ... time America moved back to the centre."

Quoted for Truth

in Honor of the Thought, a special....

Tao of D'oh.

Who? What? .. thanks GM, mighty fine song that.

Favourite line: "Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss."

Hope in this case, for America, the new boss might be a tad different. Not looking like there's a lot to choose from at the moment though. Glad I'm not over there scratching my head about who'll get the nod. Hope someone bobs up soon who's really going to be a leader.

Mates,

You both either missed, or worse, ignored, the emoticon at the end of my line...

Here it is again:

:>)

Dave came up with: "That his victory might please the villains around the world who dislike America is a good reason to vote AGAINST Obama."

Wow. That you would let the so-called villains around the world influence your vote, and by extension, the presidential election, speaks volumes.

Sisy, there's no chance I'd have voted for Obama regardless. The only Democrat I see as a viable candidate is Bill Richardson.

Dave

Ah, yes, the old missed/ignored emoticon trick. Yes, we are a couple of naughty boys aren't we :) I did notice it old boy ... but thought you were simply being mischievous.

I must say though, Clav, from an outsider's point of view, the problem here is, the Democrats' race isn't all that exciting. IMO, they are risking a boredom backlash. Perhaps Al Gore will come back from his global planet-saving mission and bring some interest back to the field. Otherwise, they will be able to market it as an alternative to mogadon.

oh Clavos...here's yer leg, it seems it came off when we were pulling on it...

geez, even STM is still using my olde moniker...you folks trying ta tell me something?

feels like the lull before the shit Storm

geez, even STM is still using my olde moniker...you folks trying ta tell me something?

Must be the new one's not jazzy enough...

(snatches leg back; hops off to corner to sulk)

D'oh!

Pathetic people posting nonsense not because Obama is the best candidate its because he is the best Black candidate..pure liberal bullshit..

Hey morons think about your fucked up liberal logic...if you needed brain surgery - which by your posts many of you do...would say please send me the "most qualified black doctor" or send me the MOST qualified doctor?

Fools, Idiots and Morons...

JOM

g,D,j:

Grrreat piece of music!

Great literature, too...

funny, i read me, Clavos ans STM posting nonsense...but funny nonsense that dances around the topic and sheds the illumination of Levity into the dank gaping maw of Absurdity...

and in the midst of it all, along comes someone stumbling to pour his own piss out of his boot

you couldn't write this shit as fiction, folks...

Just One More...Reminder.

Heh.

Irony abounds wherever you turn.

Even in Oz...

Both of 'em.

"Fools, Idiots and Morons...
- JOM"

He said, without even a HINT of irony ...

Fuck off with the silly cliches. Even you should be above such complete foolishness.

I respond to you don't I?

This is probably better than average thinking from Mr Ash, which is to say that it has a little bit of thinking.

But he's still stubbornly insisting on thinking that basically most everybody really agrees with him. They don't. Brother Ash would favor Obama, because he's never supported the military (and because it would feel good to vote for a {liberal} black) - but that's exactly why he's definitely not even vaguely electable. That lefty anti-war stuff might sound good to some Democrat primary voters - but not all of them.

Moreover, even a lot of the ones who would be inclined to support his position won't end up supporting him, on grounds that he's unelectable. Maybe a few years down the line, or maybe for a veep spot, but he's in no way even vaguely qualified to be commander in chief.

Bad as I hate to say it, in this Democrat crop, empty suit Obama and nancy boy trial lawyer John Edwards start to make Hillary look almost like a credible commander in chief by contrast.

Are these two wusses on her payroll?

Adam, looking closer, do you know how utterly ridiculous you sound describing Obama as an "intellectual." Writing a fluffy autobiography does not constitute being intellectual. You sound like Warren Beatty going crazy with his ridiculous magic-Negro stuff in Bulworth, where every two bit dope dealer turns out to be Malcolm X and every homeless dude is an oracle.

I don't particularly have anything against Obama, but the guy's a big nothing. All this excitement and women coming down their legs is their own doing, not based on anything substantive about another two-bit political hack with a couple of terms in the state legislature under his belt.

I'm just about as hard-core a Democrat as you'll find between the Atlantic and the Pacific-- major donor and fundraiser, and a consistent voter of course for many years. I'd rather walk on hot coals than vote for a Republican.

But I won't vote for Hillary Clinton if she's nominated by the Democratic Party in 2008. I WON'T VOTE FOR HILLARY AT ALL.

Her boosterism for the Iraq War for 5 years now, makes me very mad. Her vitriol against Iran and Syria makes me madder still.

But if anything, I'm even angrier at Hillary over her domestic economic stands than about Iraq. She supports outsourcing of software jobs to India with tax breaks and other goodies for companies that do it, when this offshoring is already killing our working and professional classes alike. And she's a bootlicker of big companies working to bust unions and weaken the power of US workers even further.

She won't get my vote. Even if that means hailing President Giuliani in 2009.

And as to the irritating comments from many of my fellow Democrats about how letting Giuliani waltz into the Oval Office in 2008 would undercut our goals as Democrats-- IMHO, allowing in a poser like Hillary would do far more harm. We'd probably then be followed by a conservative Republican after a "liberal" like Hillary anyway, aka no progressivism at all.

If the Dems go stupid and nominate Hillary Clinton in 2008, better to just give it up and work for 2012, when no doubt the country would be sick of 12 years of Republican failures. Besides, we'll still control Congress after 2008, that would check the extremes of any Republican leader.

From Drudge - OBAMA $$ HIT SET FOR NYT
Tue Mar 2007 06 21:52:30 ET

Less than two months after ascending to the U.S. Senate, Barack Obama bought more than $50,000 worth of stock in two speculative companies whose major investors included some of his biggest political donors, the NYT will splash on Wednesday Page Ones.

The paper claims, according to newsroom sources: One of the companies was a biotech concern that was starting to develop a drug to treat avian flu. In March 2005, two weeks after buying about $5,000 of its shares, Obama took the lead in a legislative push for more federal spending to battle the disease.

The paper's Mike McIntire and Chris Drew get front placement [side by side with Libby Coverage] for details of Obama's most recent financial disclosure:

It shows that he bought more than $50,000 in stock in a satellite communications business whose principal backers include four friends and donors who had raised more than $150,000 for his political committees.

A spokesman for Obama says the senator did not know that he had invested in either company.


Oh no!!! The Right Wing New York Times is "shining a light" on another corrupt politician...oh no!!!


JOM

Obama...an inconvenient truth for Liberals..Just another selazy democrat saying one thing and doing another...

So now we know when Obama says he is for "change"..he is talking about puuting change in his pocket...


JOM

JOM - the Ann Coulter of BlogCritics. Gawd help us, we always have to settle for Kmart knockoffs here.

Nancy,

Pretty funny stuff Nancy. How can you look yourself in the mirror knowing that you are ripping off your employer and tax payers by wasting time with your inane posts?

[Edited]

JOM

[Edited]

Why does Obama distance himself from being white? His black father abondoned him and he was lucky to be raised by rich white folk....he is a pathetic human being!

JOM

This is really boring, guys.

Zing--Of course I know what dark horse means--it's the horse of long odds at the track who is not expected to win--but Dave's use of it as a pun was bad news. (Dark implying black.)

Aku--I would prefer that you do not respond. I certainly have never asked you any questions.

moonraven, i didn't see any pun in dave's use of the term. as he was referring to almost a century worth of democratic candidates, very few of which have been black, most of which have been white, i think that if he HAD used that pun, he would have been using it very poorly... that's something we would more likely see from jom or something. i think you're just seeing things.

I stand by my rights as a reader, zing.

Nothing more meaningful to comment?

Coming back to this thread I am tempted to take a page out of clavos' book and start snoring.

i don't have much to say on barak or hillary or anyone yet becuase it's far too early, the skeletons are mostly in their closets, and i think the field will change drastically by this time next year. it's kind of pointless right now.

as for your "rights" as a reader, you get pissed at dave for misinterpretting your comment about capuccino, which was MUCH more of a racial pun, and you want to get away with taking "dark horse," a very well-defined phrase in politics, and turning it into something racist... when he just got done pointing out the racism within your comment?

you know it wasn't a racist comment, but you're just bringing down the level of discourse to that level because he did. it's childish (on both your parts), and totally unnecessary.

your "rights" as a reader just make this whole discussion suffer when it need not.

Do not tell me what I know.

The term capuccino for the candidate in question had already been used--including in the title--of at least two articles on the political forum of blogcritics--so don't try pinning your bullshit racist label on me again.

If you don't have anything to say, why not consider getting a job?

IMO cappucino is better than either coffee or milk. Good stuff. So I wouldn't take it as a slur. Besides - it's expensive.

"Do not tell me what I know."

no.

"The term capuccino for the candidate in question had already been used--including in the title--of at least two articles on the political forum of blogcritics--so don't try pinning your bullshit racist label on me again."

i said it had racial overtones. which it does. "dark horse," on the other hand, most certainly does not. (and you know it!) and you have proven your racism before. you admit to it... why try and deny it?

"If you don't have anything to say, why not consider getting a job?"

haha! i do have a job. i'm just not doing it right now, same as you.

The stuff out of the jar--of which is the candidate in question--is cheap and filled with chemicals that are hazardous to one's health.

Yah, but the GOOD stuff - made from scratch - is not, & it costs, as you know from your forays to Seattle & points north.

ok, ok. so you want to say it has no racial overtones.

if that's true, and i'll give you the benefit of the doubt if you want it, then how is "dark horse" automatically racist?

you can't have it both ways.

Uh, zing: I don't have to have a job.

I disagree: dark horse, in the context in which it was used by Dave, clearlu DOES have racial overtones.

At no point on this site have I admitted to being a racist.

I have, however, indicated a preference for living in non-white environments. There are lots of reasons for that: for example, here in Mexico folks are more fun (they even have a sense of humor), the food is much better, there are always people in the street doing something interesting (even if it's only eating tacos de suadero), folks can dance, the language is much richer, and a whole host of etceteras.

I don't think it does, personally, except that some people tend to see communists under every bed, so to speak, & racism in every comment having to do with 'dark', 'black', 'chocolate', 'vanilla', etc.

I don't particularly have anything against Obama, but the guy's a big nothing. All this excitement and women coming down their legs is their own doing, not based on anything substantive about another two-bit political hack with a couple of terms in the state legislature under his belt.

Spoken like a true statesman, Senator Barger. How many sugars did you say you wanted in your cappuccino again, sir? My memory ain't what it used to be...

Man, what a comment thread...

MR - what are tacos de suadero?

Nancy,

My original comment on this thread was that the candidate in question was capuccino out of the jar.

Before you bore me to death with your ankle nipping, read the threads.

FYI, here in Central Mexico capuccino (the real stuff) is widely available at every little cake shop. I do not have to trade with Starbucks (also becoming much more numerous).

In most respects, this place is MUCH more civilized than Seattle--or any other spot in the States.

I don't make "forays" to Seattle and points north--I go there twice a year to see my daughter and some friends and take care of some financial stuff. It happens that I was born in Washington state.

Tacos de suadero are made from pieces of beef.

Did the word 'forays' offend you for some reason? It wasn't meant to.

i said it had racial overtones. which it does.

Coming from a proven racist that coffee is awfully rich.

Zing--Of course I know what dark horse means--it's the horse of long odds at the track who is not expected to win--but Dave's use of it as a pun was bad news. (Dark implying black.)

So, in fact, you don't know what it means. Your definition is for the term 'longshot'. 'Dark Horse' is specifically a political term and refers solely to political candidates who are little known prior to their campaign for office.

What's more, the Democrats from the beginning of their existence have had a reputation for running Dark Horse presidential candidates. It's a populist strategy which has worked well for them in the past. The term itself was coined specifically in reference to Democrat presidential candidates.

"Yellow Dog" is another specifically political term applied only to Democrats, but if I used that you'd probably think it was racist too.

Dave

From the phrase finder site:

A dark horse

Meaning

Someone who emerges to prominence; being previously little known.

Origin

This was originally horse racing parlance. A dark horse was one that wasn't known to the punters and was difficult to place odds on. The figurative use later spread to other fields and has come to apply to anyone who comes under scrutiny but is previously little known.

Eat your words, assholes.

Or drink them with capuccino out of the jar like the other rednecks do.

What do I care....

You attempted to substitute the derivation for the meaning, as you yourself demonstrated. The term is not used in racing, in fact it's considered bad luck.

And rednecks don't drink cappucino at all.

Dave

Dave,

You are just WRONG, as usual.

My family raced thoroughbreds for many years, so I sure as hell ought to know what the term means--and where it came from.

As for capuccino--sorry I know so little about the habits of you rednecks. Red Bull, is it?

Dave has learned nothing from being caught in lies.

Not suprising--since he has learned nothing from anything else, either.

either way, racing term or political term, (and it certainly wasn't used as a racing term, unless barak hussein obama is a horse's name, which is possible in the great, silly world of horse racing,) WHERE'S THE RACISM?!

and moonie, redbull is too expensive in the caffienated beverage world. mountain dew makes a version with a shiner can. i think one of them has a monster truck on the can. redbull is relatively high class.

but if a hick is to drink coffee, they drink the sugary stuff. like a mocha. or a white mocha! oh yeah. or they just drink diner coffee.

it's a stupid argument anyway.

and you must be going to bellevue (choose your meaning) or something if you think you are forced to do business with starbucks in seattle. the starbucks near my house seems to do more business with the street bums than with anyone else, who can go to the 3 or 4 independant coffee shops within a three block radius of the place.

Zing,

I am beginning to think you are just incredibly DENSE.

Your comment about horseracing made absolutely NO sense.

Red Bull is what the campesinos in my village drink for a quick pickmeup. I am glad someone on this board finally is aware that Mexican campesinos are of a higher class than rednecks.

The Starbucks I was referring to--although a Seattle-based company specializing in ripping off Third World coffee producers--are in Mexico City and Cuernavaca, but have not yet made their way to my village. Or to Cuautla, the large town next to it where I am at the moment.

Bellevue is where my daughter is at this moment--in her office at the Bellevue Arts Museum. Not close to here....

"Your comment about horseracing made absolutely NO sense."

let me explain it to you. dave used the term "dark horse" in reference to a political candidate named barak obama. you posite that "dark horse" is a racing term. i say that whether or not "dark horse" is a racing term or a political term, it doesn't matter to the discussion at hand. i further point out that dave wasn't referring to a horse when talking about obama, so he must have been using the term in its political sense. the political sense of the term is well-defined, and has no racial overtones.

get it now? seems to make perfect sense.

oh my. your daughter is about 3 blocks from where i work. and about 3 blocks away from 2 starbucks that stand within 150 feet of each other. but there is an independant coffee shop inbetween her and the starbucksesssss.

on the horseracing bit, i was also pointing out that racing horses have silly names.

I fully agree with your comments on Hillary Clinton. Just as George W. Bush became the leading candidate for president based on his being son of a previous White House occupant(and definately NOT on his substance) so with Hillary it is her being wife of Bill Clinton, and no other reason, that has propelled her into the Democratic front-runner. Tragic, isn't it?

Your name looks pretty silly, too. But I suppose it's a matter of taste whther it looks sillier than the silly horse name that was all the rage when I was in grade school, Beetlebomb. (And around the clubhouse turn it's Toothpaste squeezed off on the rail, and HERE COMES BEETLEBOMB--great stuff when you are 6 years old....)

The problem in regard to Nalle's comment is that I simply gave him too much credit. I assumed that he was using the term dark horse in its multiple senses and that since Obama is apparently African American, that he was also using it to refer to his skin color in one of those senses.

If he was too stupid to do that, he let the intentional fallacy down (again), I gave him credit for being smarter than he is, and then you decided because you had nothing to say anyway that you would try to revive your ridiculous claim that I am a racist.

My daughter doesn't frequent Starbucks. She's too busy running the museum.

The background color of this website is white, which means they usurped space from the previous inhabitants, which were of red descent.

The text on this site, however, is successful and attractive and could be a long-shot to win the presidency.

Right.

No Native American has red skin that I have ever seen. I certainly don't.

Get a life.

You've never seen the Washington Redskins logo?

Entirely factual, lady. Part of our country's history. Look it up.

I am not in the habit of defending Hillary, but I think the truth is that she had to establish (because men are questioning her ability to lead this country since she is a "weak female") a strong position on the matter of war. It was a calculated risk, but now she is caught in a bind.

To be against Hillary because she is a woman is just as bad as to be against Obama because he is black. Why not just focus on the issues and not her gender (and even though they are hideous, her pantsuits)?

My family raced thoroughbreds for many years, so I sure as hell ought to know what the term means--and where it came from.

So much for your claims to be one with the people - another limousine leftist revealed. As for horse knowledge, my wife works in the racing industry, so I'm not exactly talking from ignorance here.

As for capuccino--sorry I know so little about the habits of you rednecks. Red Bull, is it?

I wouldn't know from rednecks. I grew up in Europe, the Middle East and Washington DC.

Dave

Hillary's complicated. There's some part of the appeal that is about electing a woman president, but she's actually to a substantial extent legitimately risen above that. Not that I'd vote for her, but her position is based on her specific personality, and not primarily on her plumbing.

But Victor, being black is pretty much the ONLY reason that Obama is a contender. If you edited out the appeal of him being black, nobody would give a rat's ass about the dude.

Re: comment 90: Brother Ruvy, I'll note that I was running for US Senate, not applying for a job as a diplomat.

Moonraven: "The Starbucks I was referring to--although a Seattle-based company specializing in ripping off Third World coffee producers--are in Mexico City and Cuernavaca, but have not yet made their way to my village. Or to Cuautla, the large town next to it where I am at the moment."

You should count yourself lucky Moonraven.

Apart from the fact the producers they deal with pay really poor wages (you'd think with the kind of money on offer from global corporate profits they'd be able to up the ante even slightly to the producers so it flows to the workers), the biggest problem with Starbucks is that the poor buggers couldn't make a decent cup of coffee to save themselves.

That's a real problem when it's your core business, especially in a place like Sydney where good coffee is now a trademark courtesy of our widespread Italian migrant community ...

And if you're working on a coffee plantation somewhere in South America, Africa or Indonesia, Starbucks probably equates to few bucks for the average punter harvesting and processing the stuff.

Al wrote: "Hillary's complicated. There's some part of the appeal that is about electing a woman president, but she's actually to a substantial extent legitimately risen above that."

That's what they said about Maggie Thatcher, Britain's Iron Lady and her leadership of the Conservative Party.

Having spent some time there during her reign, I can tell you she was one of the toughest (and most divisive) Prime Ministers Britain's ever had.

Her main claim to fame - apart from her policies and massive job cuts being the catalyst for a coal miner's strike that almost brought the country to its knees - was the declaration of war on Argentina after their invasion of the Falkland Islands, and the subsequent Falklands War. Which was, indeed, a really nasty little war that caused great loss of life on both sides over a very short period.

Let's hope there's not another Maggie waiting in the wings somewhere, or we'll all be in for a really good spanking.

Al, Obama's attractions aren't based on his color at all; that's the big deal: MOST people on the street (as opposed to professional politicians, pundits, & the MSM which like to analyze these things to death) are for him because he's NOT part of the political establishment - yet - of ANY side. He's not a corporate puppet or a political whore intent on a lifetime incumbency, like most of them - yet. He isn't afraid to vote against the war & go on record as taking a stand - yet. Given time, I'm sure the vultures & maggots of Political Washington will get their hooks into him just like they have all the rest. Even Jesus Christ would probably be unable to escape their clutches. But for the nonce, he's clean. THAT is what excites everyone about him. It's been a long, long, looooooooooonnng time since we had a 'clean' candidate to think about, someone who might be willing to blow off the establishment oligarchs because he still actually believes in "public service" in its truest sense, i.e. putting the good of the people before the good of the corporations, the megarich, & his own interests. It might be everyone is wrong, but so far, even his detractors haven't been able to dig up any dirt on him, and I'm sure they've been striving mightily to do so, but already someone has had to resort to cheap shots a la the Swiftboaters in the form of lies & innuendo about his middle name & attending a madrissah, etc. If they've already had to stoop to doing that instead of flinging REAL dirt - then he MUST be clean! Otherwise, they'd proclaim it, loud & fast. And there's nothing.

nancy--you're stretching the truth a bit... race is important to obama's campaign. it shouldn't be, but it is. it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. he seems to be clean, but you're the last person i would expect to believe that he really IS clean. he's a politician, remember? it'll all come out, and we will see.

it's early yet. march 2007 is a long time from nov 2008.

True enough on the 'clean' thing. As for the race aspect, all I know is when he's discussed by private people all around me, race isn't mentioned & doesn't seem to occur to anyone. The only time I hear it nittered & nattered on is by the self-anointed pomps.

well, how many political discussions do you think the average voter will have between now and next november? where do you think they will hear most of what they are going to hear about the candidates? they are going to hear it from the media, which has pointed out his race endlessly. just like jfk was a catholic, lincoln had a beard, or didn't have a beard, i can't remember... whatever makes a candidate different is what makes the news.

i mean, shit, fox news really asked "does america want a SMOKER in the white house?" maybe i'm just biased, being a smoker, but that's just silly.

The various people I hang with, the political conversational speculation & arguing is about as nonstop as is sports talk, i.e. almost continuous. The opinions of various "experts" on TV, etc. are normally greeted with scorn & derision, doesn't matter if its CNN or Fox.

ahem--again, do you think you and yours have more political discussion than the average american? by about how much?

now. what do you think the average american will think about, even in nov 2008, when they see obama's name? will it be his accomplishments? (...) or will it be his race? what will it be? just being realistic here.

his race is important here. it just is. just like hillary being a woman. it's important. not all-consuming, but important.

Nalle is being ingenuous, deliberately, again.

HE is the redneck I referred to. Who else?

Matthew, as a Native American, I find you to be very offensive. You should be scalped. I have just the tomahawk to do it--only here we use machetes for that, of course.

Speaking of native Americans, did anyone see the news (which was big here) that the Seminoles have parlayed their one hard Rock property here into buying the entire Hard Rock chain of Hotels, restaurants, and c a s i n o s worldwide?

Within my memory, there was a time when all they had going for them was wrestling alligators for the tourists in a fake "Indian village."

Smart bunch of folks: that's a hell of a big operation!

Correction to my #124:

Prior to this purchase, the Seminoles actually owned to hard Rock c a s i n o s in Florida, as well as five others under other brands, according to this article.

The 3,300 member Seminole Tribe of Florida paid nearly a billion dollars for the Hard Rock acquisition, which last year had net revenues of $502 million, or about $152K for each man, woman and child.

"You should be scalped. I have just the tomahawk to do it--only here we use machetes for that, of course."

Okay, but we gotta plan this ahead of time. Would you like a reservation?

ROTFL, Suss!

"You should be scalped. I have just the tomahawk to do it."

Is hair a prerequisite, so you can hang the scalp for display??

I am phobic about bald. Hair is definitely a requirement if you want ME to scalp you.

If you just want to get scalped, I am sure there are probably folks out there who will scalp bald folks. Ask around.

Obama/Edwards or Edwards/Obama

That would be a HUNK FEST!!!! Oh and they are both clear minded, solutions oriented, understand the working class yet are not sold to dogma, did I say CUTE!!!

I guess Edwards is attractive in a Alex Hyde-White kind of way, but Obama? I don't see it. He looks like the black version of Screech from Saved by the Bell.

Dave

While I would be happy for Hillary to win, as I have said before, she is to political.

Adam

You make a great point about women and Obama. To add to that, women are much more leary about women who play games or are too political. The last thing you want to be among women is a conniver. That archetype least preferred even less than the slut.

Yeah his got a long chin but there is something about him. grrrrrrrr! Now Edwards is just plain sinful!!

Nalle has the nerve--ugly as he is--to comment on the attractiveness of another man!!!!!!!

This man deserves a rubber room. Now.

Not sure if this is the time to have a colored man as President.

Well, If we can't have an intelligent "colored" man for president, then why dont' we just kiss our freedom good bye and elect someone else who's not capable to lead this nation. Face it, that will turn this country behind by centuries compared to the developed world out there.

Cosmos

Please post more stuff. That was so funny. It's unreal like a cartoon or something.

Its not time for his skin to do what???

What does Bush's skin do?

Yeah I've heard some good things about Barack Obama. I heard he had an Iraq de-escalation act. Even people who supported the Iraq war when it began, would probably now agree that it resulted badly, with civil unrest and violence still occurring in Iraq: so probably Obama's policy is favourable, there. I heard he also wanted to improve the schools, and increase literacy rates, and all of that. I guess I'll have to read what some of his detractors have to say, to learn the negative side. I'm trying to decide whom it would be best to vote for!

Clinton is gonna squish Obama like a roach under a high heel. Whoever wrote this piece does not know a damn thing about politics. Obama is peaking right now. Which is a bit too soon
Clinton is unbeatable at this point. The Left wing echo chamber has repeated "she can't win" so much they have stopped noticing that SHE KEEPS WINNING. The core of the DEM party could care less how she voted on te war. Why does the LEFT go blind every four years? Howard Dean, Gary Hart, Jerry Brown, Barack Obama Look really close - there is no one who can beat Clinton. NO ONE. Rudy is a gnat to be swatted away. McCain won't make it across a debate stage at 74. Romney - well - do the math - not gonna happen. Obama is all style and no substance. Hillary will spank him. WATCH. Bill is gonna knee cap Obama. And the press will turn on him in the fall. WATCH.
The "hollywood " candidate NEVER gets the nomination. One shot of him sucking down a cig. and he loses half the lib. vote. Everyone needs to get over the Obama fantasy now. It just is not gonna happen.

Clinton and Obama are both good.

"Not sure if this is the time to have a colored man as President."

He surely couldn't be worse than the idiot liar who's in there now.