Blogcritics Comments on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Comment by Morte Cerebrale on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Mon, 13 Oct 2008 05:13:51 EDT

Amazingly succinct blog. I quote from my YT profile......"Before I get any shit about "who gives a fuck about Norway" and receive even more threats of invasion (I swear I'm not making that up) my adopted country's lost a few of its young people in US actions lately. Guys whose only crimes was to actually believe the lies offered by the politicians over here.. So.. Norway is where those kids families still live and try to adjust to the horror of losing them as some kind of involuntary blood sacrifice to The Knesset and US Congress." Thanks again for a to-the-point, point of view. I actually must profess ignorance about candle-lit vigils in Iraq... I now watch interviews of Sarah Palin with amazement and disgust. Are we heading into a new dark ages?

Comment by Clavos on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:08:52 EST

Too true, Stan. These days, the government in America IS the lobbyists; and not just the corporate ones, by a long shot.

Comment by STM on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:23:19 EST

Zedd wrote: "In America, the government IS the people." That's true in theory Zedd, but it's no longer really the case in practice. I no longer believe the US is a genuine democracy. With no caps on campaign funding (which really should be funded in equal measure by the government itself) for the two major parties, the party elected to power tends to be the one with the most backing from corporate/lobby group interests. That means it represents those interests, rather than those of the people, who in truth are now disenfranchised to a large extent from the process of true democracy as it was envisaged by the founders of the United States. Time for some absolutely vital reappraisal over there Zedd before it's too late.

Comment by Zedd on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:12:27 EST

Doug In America, the government IS the people. Something tells me that with all of your talk, you don't place giving and participating in charitable activities as a high priority. You just hope that everyone else will do so. May I ask how old you are??

Comment by Doug Hunter on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 09:17:16 EST

"Go live in Iraq. Now real law but plenty of risk." I support, and almost everyone does, the laws against assault, murder, and property crimes. Another weak argument from an individual who thinks way to highly of their own intellect. (I guess it does partly explain why you think you are qualified to use the government to control others)

Comment by Zedd on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:33:48 EST

Clavos It was funny. Admit it. STM But I made you chuckle.

Comment by Christopher Rose on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 05:49:05 EST

STM: Your words are a beacon of wisdom and sanity in the bizarre Alice-through-the-looking-glass world that people like BC's Politics Editor and his fellow travellers imagine they live in. Dave: Your comments in #209 simple serve to confirm what I've written in the previous paragraph. The fact that many unremarkable European political ideas and politicians "whose platforms would be completely untennable in the US" is wonderful evidence for the truth of that. "Libertarianism IS the US mainstream" HaHa ahahahahahahahah. Oh my, I need to sit down before I wet myself! What delightful insanity!!

Comment by Dave Nalle on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 04:22:24 EST

So, you agree with me on this point, but you feel it necessary to bash on me just for fun? Libertarians of one kind of another make up way more than 5% of the population. When questioned on issues rather than party allegiance close to half the population comes out as libertarian (the philosophy, not the party). Libertarianism IS the US mainstream. Dave

Comment by zingzing on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 02:59:24 EST

"What you consider mainstream we in America would consider extreme left." stop trying to talk for america. they certainly are left of mainstream america, but you're certainly right of it, and you do not speak for everyone in america, so stop trying, even in this little space. it's fucking ridiculous, and you've been pulling this shit for the past couple of days and it's really fucking pompous and annoying. you try and identify yourself as a "libertarian," that 1-5% of american political positions and next you want to speak for america? make up your mind.

Comment by Dave Nalle on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 01:01:00 EST

Here we go again! The extreme left is not part of mainstream European politics at all. If you knew anything at all about global politics, and as a politics "editor" surely you should, you simply wouldn't make such ridiculous remarks as you'd know how it was undermining your already shaky credibility... You're just wrong, Christopher. That's part of your inflexible eurocentric worldview. What you consider mainstream we in America would consider extreme left. That's the heart of the problem here. Voters in Europe will consider as potentially acceptable parties whose policies would put them in the lunatic fringe in America. You don't see this because you think of it as normal and for you the division between left and right is much farther left than it is in the US, but facts are facts. I can take almost any country in Europe and run down examples of mainstream parties whose platforms would be completely untennable in the US, and mainstream political leaders - even heads of state who hold beliefs which would make them unelectable in the US. Please do go on, enlighten us all as to just how you Americans really think and the struggles you perceive your adopted nation as facing... My adopted nation? Come again? I was born a US citizen because both of my parents are from the US, and I gave up my claim to Lebanese citizenship when I turned 18. Dave

Comment by STM on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 00:45:57 EST

Zedd: "Clavos is just in an another echoing phase. He'll regain his sanity soon." Lol ... the day Clav regains whatever sanity it is that he has lost is the day I leave blogcritics. Dave, meanwhile, is only half-insane so that doesn't count. Now, you, Zedd, dear madam ...

Comment by Zedd on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:29:53 EST

Should have been NO real law and plenty of risk. Hey how about Somalia? You two are sadly immature. At least Doug is. Clavos is just in an another echoing phase. He'll regain his sanity soon.

Comment by Clavos on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:27:18 EST

Now you're being a silly goober, Zedd. STOP IT! GROW UP!

Comment by Zedd on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:23:48 EST

Clavos and Doug Go live in Iraq. Now real law but plenty of risk.

Comment by STM on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:52:06 EST

Americans don't need to take their cues from Europe. Each society is fundamentally different. However, Europeans have embraced much of what is good about America, and rejected the bad, and Americans could probably look to Europe for the same kind of benefits by picking up what is good. BTW Clav, being a faded empire might not be a bad thing, since embracing such change is a recognition that imperialism isn't the way to go. I realise many Americans don't see themselves as imperialists, given that they aren't colonising in the true sense of the word. But neo-colonialism and US-style corporate imperialism are still colonialism and imperialism. The Poms colonised for trade, US corporations do the same, with the implicit backing of the US government, which facilitates situations - through trade deals, and promises of aid - where American companies can operate. The only difference was, the poms planted the Union Jack everywhere they went. US companies bring their corporate logos. There's little difference, and what is, is semantics. A rose by any other name ...

Comment by Doug Hunter on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:18:51 EST

"doug, you sound like an anarchist." It's all a spectrum, I'm no more an anarchist than every leftist is a communist. My core values place higher value on freedom than most therefore I'm lumped in with the right amongst the violent bigots and looney christoids. You can't truly understand the 'logic' that leads me to my position because we each have different underlying values and assumptions that change at a glacial pace if at all. I can scream 1+2=3 all day but if in your mind you see 3-6/7=41 it'll be about as productive as arguing politics. That being said, I really truly don't understand the mentality that drives some to want to use government to tell others how to live or what to do with their property or what causes to support or what to like and dislike (even if it is in their best interest). That inability to comprehend or really follow the logic and values of the left is what really unnerves me about being ruled by them.

Comment by zingzing on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:00:25 EST

"As sorry a collection of tattered, fading, has-been empires as the European countries (possibly excepting GB) are, they're the last we should be aspiring to emulate." you said this. so i snarkily said, "are we trying to be an empire" because you said europe is a bunch of has-beens as your reason for not following in their footsteps. you answered my question by saying that we shouldn't emulate europe because we don't want to be an empire. so... it logically follows from your first statement that europe is a bunch of has-been empires, and we shouldn't follow that. it logically follows from your second that they are empires, and that's not something we want to be. while i am playing with you a bit, i am only trying to point out that your first statement is very vague and doesn't contain any specific criticisms. it doesn't really say anything useful. so you should rephrase it.

Comment by Clavos on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:00:20 EST

It is nice to live in a place where people think it's OK to close the gap between the haves and the have nots, and can achieve it not by taking the haves down, but by bringing the have nots up. No argument from me there, Stan. Problem is, in this country, those who are the most vocal about closing that gap only talk about taking the haves down. Nancy's comments on the topic here on BC are perfect examples of that.

Comment by Clavos on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:53:06 EST

Re-read my 193. I think it was pretty clear. I don't see where I was trying to "have it both ways."

Comment by STM on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:50:36 EST

Chris wrote (to Dave): "Here we go again! The extreme left is not part of mainstream European politics at all." That's true Dave, in the UK (and Australia) it's known as the loony left and is the object of derision, much like the rabid right. People don't take it seriously. If you need any proof of this, just look at Tony Blair's New Labour. Labour were never a chance of gaining power in Britain while the number crunchers in the party had to bow down to the Left to achieve their aims. Blair reshaped the party - just as had been done with Labor in Australia after the fall of the radical Whitlam government in the mid '70s. The architects of these new Labour/Labor parties at both ends of the globe have been virtually identicakl and have recognised that you can have genuine social justice and change AND work in accord with private industry. A healthy dose of pragmatism brought Blair to power, just as it brought Neville Wran and Bob Hawke to power in Australia. These new ideals of pragmatic socialism don't don't bow to the left. They embrace capitalism. But they include workers and unions in the process of improving prifits and raising living standards. The benefits flow both ways - the simplistic explanation: companies get support from the government, the right tax breaks, and help in marketing and what have you for access for instance to new overseas markets, while workers aim for higher productivity and have their rights on wages and working conditions enshrined by law. And as I have said many times before, I believe such things as the right to universal, free quality health care (and a decent aged pension after all those years of paying taxes) is just that - a citizen's right. I know it works; I have lived under it. I have also this past decade lived under a right-wing government that subscribes to the user pays theory on just about everything and thinks it can do whatever it likes, and bugger the people, and I know which is best. If I ever hear the world mandate used by a politician again to justify broken promises ("sorry, but that wasn't a core promise") I think I'll scream. The fact that you haven't really experienced such things in the US doesn't mean that what goes on in the rest of the world couldn't also apply to the US. I describe many of these policies that you guys think are about socialism as citizens' rights. Government is there to help the people, not to run itself. It is about community, rather than rabid leftisim - and really is a mark of a society that has matured enough to be confident with itself. It is nice to live in a place where people think it's OK to close the gap between the haves and the have nots, and can achieve it not by taking the haves down, but by bringing the have nots up. One of the markers of this social justice is the lessening of polarity. You will find, generally, the grey areas between the major parties in developed nations outside the US are much smaller and a lot less grey. Those with a good system of proportional representation and caps on election funding from idustry/lobby groups fare even better, because to win government the parties don't have to manufacture issues to gain power or stay in power. By neccessity, they MUST bow down to the will of the people. For these reasons, but not these alone, I no longer believe the US is a genuine democracy. The voice of the people comes second to those with big money who can back a party into power. IMO, the last time Americans experienced true democracy was in the 1970s, when people got out into the streets to demand an end to the Vietnam war and to protest against corruption in high office. It is powerful stuff, though painful for America at that time, and the legislators listened. You seem to have deviated so far from the course, no one is even sure now what the course is.

Comment by zingzing on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:39:12 EST

well, which are they, "has-been empires" or empires? can't have it both ways. i don't think we have to emulate any one country or group specifically. that would be silly. but we can learn from the good and bad of each country. some parts of european society are worth emulating. some parts are not. same with the rest of the world. shit, we've got things to learn from south africa, of all places. (no offense, zedd, south africa...)

Comment by Clavos on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:36:11 EST

Mis phrased that last (#195). Should have been: I certainly hope not. It's one of the many reasons we shouldn't emulate the Europeans.

Comment by Clavos on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:32:53 EST

I certainly hope not, which is one reason we shouldn't emulate the Europeans.

Comment by zingzing on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:30:59 EST

so are we trying to be an empire then?

Comment by Clavos on If You're Proud to be an American, You've Got to be a Blithering Idiot

Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:22:57 EST

As sorry a collection of tattered, fading, has-been empires as the European countries (possibly excepting GB) are, they're the last we should be aspiring to emulate. Once, maybe. No longer.