While I can not answer this question to any degree of certainty, It is safe to say Obama's cultural experience is probably somewhat different than most African-Americans, being the son of of an African immigrant, having a white mother, spending a chunk of his childhood in Indonesia, etc. Is he culturally black enough? Who knows.

No.

He's not.

And that's not the only thing wrong with him.

He's capuccini mix out of the jar--a molded plastic media toy. No ideas, no vision (except of himself in the Oval Office)--and the bitterly logical conclusion of media as entertainment and star spotting rather than information.

I don't know if he's Fluffy or Puffy.

And I don't even care.

Wow, MR I actually agree with you. When I hear BO (no pun intended) speak, it seems like streams of well spoken platitudes with no substance.

How will Hilary play the race card? A Black running is her nightmare. She will not the only minority in the race.
Can Barak Win?
Poor Hillary! What is she going to do with Bill?
You want cutting edge commentary with a Seriously Warped perspective?
Then visit the newest blog to hit the Internet

She won't have to do anything with Bill.

Supposedly he has a new (Canadian) girlfriend....

MR

I don't know what you consider Fluff (which is what I think you mean by fluffy/puffy, however I am convinced that you haven't listen to Obama.
You may have heard an interview that was full of Fluff because of the questions that were being asked but he is a very insightful person.

Now a person who is moved by grand and emotional notions like revolution and overthrow will most likely not find "substance" in him. If you seek an emotional jolt, you wont like him. However, what you will find is a deliberate and wisen gentlemen in a way that is uncharacteristic of an American man of his generation.

Also, I think it is Blacks that need to decide if he is Black enough.

Heloise

I think that Barak has chosen to be black. Not only did he marry a black woman, but he married a dark sister. His work in the AA community was also by choice.

He was not just any Harvard school grad but he was the President of the Harvard Law Review (first Black..). He was highly sought after by the top firms but he made alternative choices which benefited the Black community (in other words he was affective).

As you well know, within the Black middle class there is a distancing from the inner city. Most people that I know, don't go to the "hood" and actually don't even know what "the hood" is like any more. There is a complete disconnect. The question would be, are THEY "Black enough"? Whatever that means in today's world.

What will be important is his face. My children will see him in that position and their vision of potential will change. White children who will be in HR or hold decision making positions will see Black people differently. A part of this sick legacy will be erased.

...but he is a very insightful person.

So's my Grandma but I don't want her to be president either. Neither of them have enough history in office. Barack needs another decade or so of public service, be it honorable or full of hookers and blow, and then he can take his shot.

Yes, he does have a checklist of things that black people do. If that were the criterion that would make me really black too! I mean I am black, and love black people, and work in the inner city. But the rest of my life is really, well, white. That is all by choice. But not completely. I am working in the inner city because I could not get a job in corporate America.

If you look at his photo, I will post it with a comparison, you will see that he had a really big nose. He looked really more black than he does now. Did he not get offers?

Guess what? If he graduated in the early 1990s like I did then it was the WORSE year for college grads. What you don't know is how many opportunities HE did not have.

It was slim picking in those Reagan years and just before Clinton became president. I've known black lawyers who didn't get jobs for years after graduation.

Heloise

Did you read his book? He had a long love affair with a white woman. He might have married her. But he took her somewhere a play or something that was black. She was horrified and said she couldn't be black. They broke up. He decided to be black after that point.

Yes, he married a black woman, good start. It was just before then that I figure he had his nose fixed. I was also married to a black man, lived in Hyde Park, involved in Chicago politics. Our paths probably did cross, but he would have already been married and so was not hanging out on what we called "the set." Which was made up of all the cool and beautiful people who followed the hip jazz musicians from AACM.

He is black but just not the real thing.

I am going to find a political group in my area to energize.

Heloise

Interesting article. I do not believe that Obama has to choose to be anything. The whole point of his campaign is about the ability to be who you are despite society's desire to categorize you.

You may want to revisit the video of Obama's speech. He spoke before a pretty diverse audience. Don't allow the camera's limitations to deceive you into believing that only white people were there.

If Obama's "blackness" becomes an issue, it will be because we, black folks, turned it into one. I watched "The State of the Black Union" and I was upset at the contention that Obama should have announced his candidacy there. Such crabs in a barrell. I mean, NAACP's Bruce Gordon made a strong point about the need for leadership being more than just about personalities, but Cornell West, among others, voice criticism about Obama's absence. Why should have been there? To validate their egos? But I digress.

Smiley's "Union" isn't really reflective of Black America. What it is is a "intra-class" war waiting to happen.

Can you tell from the outside how committed a man is or will be?

One thing I really like seeing is Obama's committment to his family. I hope he keeps Michele close to him in whatever office he holds. She will keep him humble and sensitive to the pulse of black and other oppressed people.

From the AP: Hours after U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) announced plans to seek his party's nomination for President, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley endorsed the freshman senator's campaign for the White House.

"I am excited," Daley said. "Of course, I'm endorsing Sen. Obama. He has made that decision and I think this is an exciting time for the country. It brings a new voice in regards to what is taking place far too long in Washington D.C., the lack of moving the agenda forward in regard to the quality of life for the people of America."

"You may have heard an interview that was full of Fluff because of the questions that were being asked but he is a very insightful person."

I remember one speech he gave on religion when he said something like "Religious people need to realize that people do not agree with them." Yes very insightful, if by insightful you mean one who states self evident truths. BO deals in platitudes. His mantle of wisdom comes from packaging these platitudes in ways new or interesting to the listener. Thus, his substance is not very different from any politician, but his delivery is A+.

But I could be wrong, cite for me something he has said that you think is insightful, because I have not heard anything like that from him.

Oh, we have a turn around in the Daley camp. Why then did Barack NOT announce in Chicago? THere are lots of black folks in CHicago who could have come to his rally?

THis is BRAND new. So will they be endorsing their friend Hillary too? Guess what Hillary messed up. She left her Chicago roots and moved to New York. That may be a reason that Daley will dump Hillary.

If you are from Chicago, you know that it has now become a sanctuary city for illegal immigrants. I am so digusted with what Daley has done to Chicago I can barely stand to visit.

Daley got boxed into a corner...hah...good for him he did the right thing. The first word out on this was that HE WOULD NOT back Barack.

Heloise

I've not heard anything of substance from Barack. And his not announcing in Chicago makes me think that he is somewhat afraid of seeing a sea of black faces in front of him.

Listen, don't underestimate the black vote. We could frickin put the man in office if we have the political will to do it and if the Florida republicans don't steal the democratic black vote like they did before.

Sure whites will vote for him. But to allow him to be one-dimensional and not answer the tough questions is only doing a disservice to him.

JFK had to answer the "Catholic question." He did put it to rest. He won by the skin of his big teeth, but he won. Many say thanks to Richard Daley and the mob. But regardless, he won. He remained a Catholic and it was really never brought up again, except in political cartoons.

Politics is my religion. But the politicians are not gods.

Heloise

Did you see what that ugly Gwen Ifil said this morning on George's show? She said that his blackness should not be brought up. Huh? She is barely American. Her parents were not born here either. She is mostly African too, like most black west indies people. I wish she would take a slow leaky boat back there. But no chance of that. The white media has made her a media spokesperson. Does this woman speak for black people? Hell no....

I wish the media would not put so-called blacks like her in top shows. It makes me sick.

She should know about not wanting to be identified as being black...ha.

Heloise

Richard I disagree, Smiley is representative of more blacks than you might think. Especially those who were activists. And those activists are the silent ones who helped to get the vote and get blacks into office in the first place.

He should think about and thank all the blacks who went before him. Halle Berry (biracial also) did this. Remember white folks love those damn biracials. Look how they stole props from India Arie when Alicia Keys came along?

My kids happen to look like biracials and people ask the all the time if they are biracial or which of your parents is white? It is mostly white people who seem fascinated by it. Blacks never ask them such dumb questions.

SO The question of RACE is for WHITE people, not black people. We are testing the waters. Is that okay with you....just kidding.

Thanks

Heloise

Ifil isn't actually ugly, and Washington Week in Review is hardly a 'top show' even among sunday morning talk shows - it's like 5th out of 6. It beats out that one that's all women, and that's about it.

What surprises me about the Obama candidacy is the bizarrely negative, even racist reaction from black Americans. All of a sudden they're bending over backwards to make sure no one calls them 'african americans' to differentiate themselves from americans whose parents or grandparents came from Africa.

Dave

Heloise,

Lots of Whites have really big noses. Whats with you and the nose thing. That is so out dated.

I am black and I don't have a big nose. My nose is small compared to most Whites.

People have augmentations to make themselves look better. Not to look like a certain race. He has narrow features. IF he had a wide nose, I'm sure it didn't fit his face. Whites have nose jobs all of the time. Are they trying to look more White?? Thats just silly.

Also, I don't really understand what you mean about living White. That is just bizarre. If you identify the inner city with Blackness then you are confused. You do realise that most Blacks just arrived in the city only one or two generations ago.

I also do work in the inner city (by choice). I have VERY LITTLE in common with those people. There is an essence that I totally get there is also an understanding and respect that I have for those people that others who are not Black may not have because of a lack of understanding of the nuance, but realistically, have most things in common with the thousands of middle class and affluent Blacks in my church, and in my neighborhood.

I live in a predominently White neigborhood. We are lucky to have a lot of Asians and a variety of other nationalities too. I love the diversity. I don't look at my life as having a race. Its just my life and my experiences.

I don't think that Whites look at trailer parks as the REAL White life.

I don't understand your comments.

Aku:

You do realise that in this climate, at least for the past 20yrs, religious people have been pandered to. Politicians rarely tell them to step aside and mind their own business. Obama's statement was brave and necessary in order for us to move on and get to the business of running a country. It takes guts and insight to say what is not popular so that the work of the country can be carried out. It sounded to me like he was removing the FLUFF and paving the way for real governance. Insight doesn't have to be profound it only has to be directed and progressive.

It doesn't matter, really, what color he is.

He still has no substance. I don't trust folks who are trying to please everybody--whether to get elected to a public office, or for some other agenda.

Another question that has to be raised is whether folks will really hop on his bandwagon after having been burnt by an Aunt Jemima (the vicious "Condolences" Rice) and an Uncle Tom (the deceptive Colin Powell).

May not be the right moment for an African American.

Nose augmentation is not a crime. Yes, whites and blacks do do it all the time. And no they are not trying to be black or white. I just like facts that's all.

I guess you don't have any black relatives who live as white then? There is a difference and would take too long to explain now. Not saying they do it completely out of choice, some were forced into living so.

Heloise

I was about to say that I can't believe that pure inaneness of some ofthe comments, but I really can.

Maybe, if it was summer, then you would have been able to see more of the black people in the crowd in Springfield. And speaking of that, you really should listen to his speech and he says plain as day why he choose there.

It's not a slight to Chicago, and Obama is hardly afraid to speak to his people. But the really telling thing about this whole president experience will be -- it will be just how crabby black folks can be with no real reason at all.

Who are "Those people"? You refer to? You sound racist whether or not you realize it.

What I mean by inner city lifestyle is a situation where they have never LEFT the inner city, not gone one block out of it. That is the difference really between living black and white. There are others to be sure.

Listen, I have been close to whites all my life and their lives, and their accumulation of wealth and resources so vastly outstrips that of blacks, due to slavery yes, that one hardly recognizes that we are living in the same country...

You need to get out more. How is that you live in a predominantly white neighborhood, as do I, and don't see it?

Who are "Those people" do tell.

Heloise

Moonraven, blacks will have to hide in shame after Rice retires. I mean the lies that woman told to the people are crimes. She will NEVER be elected or appointed to anything again. I guess she will go off and teach Russian in some university that likes oreos like her with milk like Colin Powell. Another one whose parents were not born in the US of A.

Where do they get blacks (skin) like them.

Yes, Ifil's show is not top rated, but it is a TV show. I mean Tavis is on at one in the morning. And it is a show. How many blacks are out there politically? Brazile, I hate her too after what she said. She defended that stupid Biden and his comments. But I would rather see her with that show than Ifil.

Heloise

Especially since while folks were drowning in New Orleans she was shopping at the Ferragamo flagship store in Manhattan--spending thousands of taxpayers' dollars.

Plus she always looks ready to bite somebody--and has the teeth to do it.

"You do realise that in this climate, at least for the past 20yrs, religious people have been pandered to. Politicians rarely tell them to step aside and mind their own business. . . "

First of all he said they need to realize people don't agree with them. Like they don't know. Its really a laugh considering abortion is still legal, Gay rights keeps growing and growing, and, according to David Kuo, the evangelicals get no respect in the very administration that was suppose to represent them. How could they not know?

And plus, Tedd, you should actually look up the speech from which BO made this statement. He was not calling them to "get out of the way" as you put it. They are citizens after all and have as much right to speech and activism as any group in this country including progessives, homosexuals, labor unions, and buisness. No, BO was calling for dialogue with the faithful. I guess he is a panderer too. As I said, same substance as any politician, different packaging.

Heloise
I guess you don't have any black relatives who live as white then? There is a difference and would take too long to explain now. Not saying they do it completely out of choice, some were forced into living so.

You've said that you have traveled to other parts of the globe. From your comments you seem to be a older than I am so I'm guessing late 40's. How is it that a person who would seem to have had a wide scope, one who would understand the complexities and simplicities of life.

There is no such thing as living White. One experiences life in whatever way they chose to. There are no set parameters (especially by race, whatever that is) to live your life.

You do realise that all Whites don't live the same way. There are poor Whites, wealthy Whites, crude Whites, polished Whites, artistic Whites, boring Whites, wild Whites, pious Whites, nutty Whites.... There is not such thing as living White. They are just like everyone else, maybe a little bit weirder or freakier but for the most part they are the same (snicker...just joking ;)

You making such statements implies that Black people lack variety in manner, meaning we are dim witted, dull, lack creativity, and parrot one another like monkeys. That is simply not true. There is a great deal of variety, in the AA community including in the "hood". Perhaps your backwards views support your allegiance to the Republican party.

Heloise, I was raised in a unique way. I traveled the world and had many special experiences. My home life would rival and exceed the elements of any 50's TV show. I had a family that was special, for anyone, Black or White. I didn't live White, it was my parents intention for us to LIVE. I still do and I raise my children in the same way.

What you may be speaking of is a self conscious attempt to not be viewed as many Whites view Blacks. What is sad is that the way we are viewed is a misconception, so not trying to seem like us is bizarre. It just lessons ones world and limits ones experience with THIER world. All to please people who don't even know you exist; and people who you more than likely live better then, who will make those silly assumptions about you ANYWAY.

Pitiful. I say let that type of thinking go. Its stifling.

Aku

First let me say, I'm the same as Tedd. Okay, I think you missed the significance of a politician actually making that statement to the religious right. Perhaps that is why you don't get why he is such a breath of fresh air. Perhaps your following the political scene in the US is a new thing? I don't know. However, as I stated before, making that statement was revolutionary in a way. The religious have been coddled and a "don't touch" group by politicians.

For you to say that they know how ineffective their stance has been (by sighting abortion and gay rights) sort of gives away your lack of understanding of the political/religious climate.... but we digress.

Heloise

I was referring to those people in the hood. You know, when you refer to a group of people, like you did, one uses the words "they" "them" "those". You don't just use a geographic local to define them. In the inner city there are people. I was referring to those people. How about us focusing on real issues as opposed to battling 1960's issues and over sensitising about irrelevant matters. When I typed that phrase, I figured that you would get a jolt.

We do digress. Now what about Obama?

"I just like facts that's all."

This coming from a woman who thinks she's JFK.

Cringe. I was too embarrassed to bring that up.....

Awkward.... (((((I hear crickets.))))))

Heloise

Sorry if I seem to be harping. Do forgive. I forgot to comment on this...

You said that I need to get out more. Actually my views are based on the fact that I grew up near a very poor White neighborhood. The Whites in my school were the poor kids. On the other hand, most of my parents friends were White and they ranged from middle class to quite well-to-do. Many were like family. I saw them as just people. Some were smart and others not; some goofy and others wise. Although there were some inherent differences because we have different world views because of culture, they were just people who were trying to make sense out of their own lives and trying get a grasp of what their destiny is like everyone else.

I am more than aware of the economic divide between the races, YES because of history even past slavery (even the present actually). You have not read most of my commentary on these threads otherwise you would not have made that comment. However, I also don't see Whiteness as synonymous with wealth. I am sure that most White bloggers on this site if not all, don't know what being wealthy is from personal experience.

But again it depends on what you think wealthy is.

I am certain that it is your perspective that needs to be updated. I hear a lot of Black comedians that have that same frightening fundamental idea. That Whites are rich and pay all of their bills on time and speak properly and don't fight and blah blah blah... That is all so silly and self deprecating. That also comes from history. Makes a person almost weep. Let it go.

Zedd,

Because I do not agree with you, I must be a novice? Nice debating technique, and you remarks are both presumptive and pedantic.

It is revolutionary to tell someone the obvious? Would me telling you that people don't agree with you be revolutionary? I think not. Plus Obama's point in that speech was dialogue with the religious not telling them to "move out of the way" as Tedd put it. What is revolutionary about politicians wanting to open a dialogue? It is what they do for a living! Democrats have been trying to open a "dialogue" of sorts with the religious for many years now. If this was the point, why is it new or revolutionary? Instead of actually answering the question you just insult people.

If it was what Tedd said, that Obama was asking the religious to "move out of the way," what is new about that? What is brave about that? Do you think Christan assassins lay in wait for him? Various people on the left, politicians and others, have criticised the religious right for quite some time now. It happened in the Clinton administration and it has has happened since. How many criticism of Pat Robertson, Jerry Fauldwel, et. al. have you heard since you have been paying attention? If it is not many perhaps you are the new one to this game.

As to your last misunderstanding. I wrote it that way because I did not want to write a treatise on the subject. Suffice it to say, I have found political boogie men, communists, the religious right, the "gay rights agenda," etc. are not, for the most part, as powerful as people make them out to be. I think politicians and interest groups, left and right, use the specter of such groups to drum up support for themselves. That was the point in case you missed it.

The only way Obama is a breath of fresh air, is that in a room of stale air, any current seems fresh (look how some republicans long for Newt, eeegh). Yes, compared to Hilary, Al Gore as a presidential candidate, and John Kerry, he is a breath of fresh air, but then again, look who you are comparing him against.

Back to my main point. Most of OB's statements are platitudes. I find nothing of substance about them, just the same old ideas, delivered in a better way. OB is packaging, not substance. And I really do want to be inspired. That is why I have listened to many of his speeches. But in the end there is really not much there, and it truly sad for me. I want to be challenged and inspired but there is no one out there that does that to me.

And one more thing, if BO is so inspiring, tell me how? I really want to know. It should be easy concidering he is treated as the Messiah with a better wardrobe.

And one more thing, if BO is so inspiring, tell me how?

You ever heard of deodorant?


*....he ducks...he runs...*

Booo.

I did say no pun intended when I first used his initials.

Easy, Ace...

Aku---Aw, cut me some slack . . . I saw your comment in the sidebar, first, and how could one resist such a grand opening? ;)

Clavos---Too easy, ace.---EA.

Touché, O Facile One...

Okay Aku

Yes, that's a fact. I was JFK. Keep talking like that and I will send a tornado to your door.

Heloise

I hardly call being ignored as crabby.

Did you watch 60 Minutes last night? He asked the same questions I have asked. He could have been reading his script right from here. So, once again stupid people like Ifil and Brazile get it wrong. If 60 minutes think it important enough to make nearly the whole thing about race, then it is.

White folks are good at one thing when you live with them: ignoring your black ass. That is what the do best. We may be there but we are simply invisible. Barack is visible, but why?

Heloise

Zedd,

the difference between white net worth and black net worth is staggering. I have lived among poor blacks and poor whites, middle class blacks and middle class whites. Know a few in the upper classes of both races as well, especially since moving to Texas.

My point is that poverty is dogging black people at a higher rate. Class is just that class. People of the same class--guess what? Act much the same. I work among a bunch of snobby white teachers. What's wrong with that picture? Well, there are here to teach poor blacks, and mexicans that's what wrong. They turn their noses up at it but collect checks. They ignore me because I am black and new here, but not to teaching.

I am 54, been around a bunch of blocks.

Heloise

Heloise, speaking as someone who has lived in nominally black communities for over 20 years, please believe me that they, or at least some members of such a broad and diverse group, can also ignore white people. Did JFK ever make such silly remarks? If not, maybe you're really channeling somebody else..?

Blacks are the minority in this country in case you have not heard. Who cares if they ignore anyone?

It is a defense mechanism pure and simple. But do blacks prefer blacks as company, probably. In cafeterias students segregate themselves according to groups.

Heloise

Heloise, but there are areas where black people are in the majority. And I care.

Are you saying it's a defense mechanism when black people ignore whites but it's something else if white people ignore blacks?

Personally, I tend to ignore idiots and assholes regardless of the qualities of their skin...

Oh, I forgot to say I'm not in your country. But, assuming you mean the USA, I have spent time in Harlem, Liberty City and Compton. And I lived in Brixton for over twenty-five years.

Christopher,

Out of curiosity (if you don't mind my asking): what were you doing in Liberty City? When were you there? For how long?

Clavos: Working with 2 Live Crew, early 90s, several times for days at a time.

Were you a roadie? Cool!

LOL! No, man, I wasn't a roadie, I was running the UK subsidiary of their label, including doing all their European PR during the "Luke Skywalker" law case by the then unlikely seeming partnership of Tipper Gore and George Lucas. Happy days!

My first ever job in the music business was actually as that lowest of the low on the rock'n'roll food chain, a roadie's assistant, but that's another story for another day.

Blacks are the minority in this country in case you have not heard.

They are not THE minority, they are one of many minorities. This nation is made up of minorities. Whites (a pretty meaningless term) are a minority.

The whole point of the kind of government we have established in this nation - why it's a republic instead of a pure democracy - is to protect the rights of minority groups against the will of the majority.

Dave

On Yahoo News they are running a video of the 60 Minutes program with the head, Barack: "Black Enough"? Just because it's on 60 Minutes doesn't necessarily make it the Question of the Hour, but those folks have a relatively good track record for having their ear to the ground.

I think it's legitimate, in a race that's shaping up to feature minorities and women (the majority), to speculate as to what role race will play in deciding the nomination.

Given that Dave Nalle put a piece on Bill Richardson on this site, maybe we should be looking at whether he is "latino" (very troublesome term) enough? Nalle claims that Richardson is only 25% Mexican. I thought his mother was Mexican, which would make him 50%.

I have contended that he has no chance because he's from New Mexico (5 piddling electoral college votes)--which millions of people do not realize is a US state.

Maybe he is not "latino" enough to represent that voting block--regardless of his state?

Hey this is turning into a real conversation. My "Black Enough" piece was original but it is not the only place asking this question.

Bottom line: If we ask the question then it IS legit.

As for Richardson his mom is Mexican. That makes him Mexican or half Mexican. They can be tough on their own kind. He is from both worlds.

Heloise

Unfortunately, THEY are NOT tough enough on Albert Gonzalez--the Weasel General of the Justice Department.

And here where I live in Mexico it's only once they get into office with a license to steal from the public trough that they get tough on their own.

I think Heloise's question is legitimate considering our political history.

Moonraven

You yourself chided Powell (my crush) and Condi for being sell outs, meaning that they don't represent the interests of Blacks. You were saying in essence that they weren't Black enough.

That is always the issue when a person of a specific group acquire power. Will the promote the interests of that group. Its a legit question.

Heloise

I fully understand and acknowledge the economic inequities because of race. I have said that that reality is a phenomenon of our entire planet.

I see our entire international policy to be peppered with a racist agenda which disrespects and actually cheats and steals from non Europeans. It is who America is. It will take several generations to heal from our White Supremacist core values. Having an Obama as President (it most likely will not happen) would catapult our growth in this area.

Dave

Did anyone say that Blacks were THE minority in this country?

Why did you have to add that? Changing the inflection so as to belittle the rest of her comment.

Blacks ARE however among the founding inhabitants of this nation and have a serious stake considering they have been hear longer than most other people and have paid the greatest price. They've inhabited this land perhaps even longer than many of your ancestors. They deserve some respect and gratitude. I find it odd that we never get that pronouncement, just a quick put down, jab, chiding and condescending remark from you. Why is that??

Christopher

I figured that you weren't an American. Americans tend to have a predictability about them, not all but most. Americans tend to take sides and don't venture to far away from an ideal. Its because of the heavy media (movie, tv and advert influence). Americans tend to play a roll even as they engage in their daily lives. Its as if they do life. I don't know if you spotted that when you were here.

I find that that tendency is starting to spread internationally but you can still spot a non American or an immigrant/child of immigrants.

Your comments seem unencumbered, fresh and you tend to be focused. Sort of like Obama (caught the clever segwaying into the discussion at hand? :o) Now watch the attacks... sigh.

Zedd,

I assume your question to Dave is rhetorical?

He puts down everyone on this site who is not either his shill or one of his multiple identities.

It is of course not fair, as all folks are supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law and the eyes of the civic public, but it is the case that when minorities enter public office or are appointed to posts in government there is a certain amount of pressure on them to be good examples.

Thurgood Marshall set the bar pretty high.

But that is not an excuse for the spectacular failure of Rice and Powell as stewards of the public trust and as human beings!

And their stench of failure on both counts is going to be around for awhile--even in the Land of Fast Food and Short Attention Spans.

As to your point about promoting a group's interest, I can't see that Big Oil is really their group--even if petroleum is referred to as "Black Gold".

MR

I have to differ with you on both Rice and Powell. I think that within that administration, they were the voices of reason. They tried to pull back on the Iraq thing. They were battling forces that had planned this war years before the onset of this administration. They have provided elegance to a rag tag bunch and have been quite articulate in presenting their ideals of the administration.

Powell was a soldier. His MO is to carry out orders. While he protested the bypassing of the UN and was successful, he in the end HAD to do what his Commander requested.

Condi has been more than articulate in representing this country to the world, especially for a person who gets her orders from GWB. Come on. She has a job to do. She is not an activist, she is an employee. Much like many of us who smile and carry out orders that we think are foolish, every day between 8 - 6 pm.

In order for African Americans to fully engage in society, we have to acknowledge our diversity. Not everyone is a civil rights leader. Some people are great managers other consensus builders, etc. I think both of these individuals are fine Americans and have represented the country well. They are the only bright stars in this debacle of an administration. I say that not because of their race but because of their delivery and eloquence under ridiculous circumstances.

Really how frustrating and embarrassing it must be to have GWB as a boss. You have to be past diplomat status to keep from telling him to shut up and sit down every day.

Sorry, Zedd, but folks with integrity do NOT have GWB as their boss. It's that simple.

Powell finally quit, but he has plenty of blood on his hands for the results of that silly PowerPoint show at the UN with the icecream trucks he was passing off as mobile weapons units.

Eichmann said he was just carrying out orders, too. The Nuremberg Trials blew that pile of pap out of the water more than 50 years ago.

And "Condolences" has NOT represented the US well abroad. In regard to Latin America, where I live, she has done nothing but shoot off her mouth and make enemies. Chavez said she was "politically illiterate", and he was right on target. She's just a shill for Big Oil--every bit as much so as Dick Cheney.

And she is really despised in the Middle East--for her midwife posture.

Zedd,

I think both of these individuals are fine Americans and have represented the country well.

Couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I would like to see Rice run for the presidency.

With clavos' support, of course she'll be a shoe (Ferragamo) in.

OMG!!

She wears Ferragamos???

Oh, well obviously that disqualifies her to be prez!!

Maybe if she wore huaraches...

Personally, I would prefer to see her run out of town on a rail.

Nope, another one you didn't get.

Rice and I BOTH wear Ferragamos. (I buy mine on eBay for a fraction of what she pays in the flagship store in Manhattan--but then I do have other, more productive things to do with my money--like feed people in the house where I live in Mexico.)

I also did not shop for mine at that flagship store while folks were drowning in New Orleans, either. Looks kind of bad for a senior government figure to do that--especially with her boss on vacation watching cartoons on t.v. in Texas at the same time.

Zedd: "It will take several generations to heal from our White Supremacist core values. Having an Obama as President (it most likely will not happen) would catapult our growth in this area."

Well said. I just wrote an quick article, I was mad, about why we should question. And no one should question our questions. One thing I point out is that we will grow politically and spiritually from this venture. It will bring people together if nothing else.

Power to the people!!!

Heloise

"But that is not an excuse for the spectacular failure of Rice and Powell as stewards of the public trust and as human beings!"


Minorities should be grateful that the Democrats have given them better role models like William Jefferson and Al Sharpton.

Arch

Why do we think minorities need role models? You think that my 70+ old mother needs a role model or my 40+ old siblings. What about me? You think I need role model?

Children need role models dude. Fix your way of thinking its embarrassing and ridiculous. Get civilized!

As for Richardson:

His Dad is half Mexican and his mom is full. Which makes him 3/4 hispanic. I think only his grand father on his father's side was Anglo, hence the name.

Bill Richardson's father was an Anglo born in Boston. His grandfather was an Anglo born in Nicaragua.

Only his mother was Mexican.

Zedd you pinhead. I was responding to Ms. Moonraven who said blacks in elected office are expected to be role models than criticized Rice and Powell.

Sorry Richardson is 3/4 Hispanic not Mexican. My apologies.

Arch

I like being called a "pinhead". I am so feminine that in my real life no one ever calls me names like that. I am like a young Diane Caroll type, in carmel. People think I am polished (Im really goofy and a closet nerd). I get a kick out of people calling me boyish names. It makes me feel really cool.

" I get a kick out of people calling me boyish names. It makes me feel really cool."

Bob

"His grandfather was an Anglo born in Nicaragua.

(Not a Nicaraguan by descent, though he may have had Nicaraguan citizenship)

Only his mother was Mexican.

He's half Latino.

Clavos

Look him up again. He is 75% hispanic.

Obama Osama is his name. At least that is what the great and wonderful fat man kennedy calls him. Remember Kennedy the famous Chappaquiddick dare devil with a young lady jumping over the pond with his oldsmobile. Obama reminds me of the great song by the late great Richie Vallie, La Bamba. La La Obama La La Obama. Just think of the songs of Harry Belafonte. Day-O she,s a Day-O we send Obama home.

Aku

Funny! My girls and I use the name Bob a lot in place of Buddy or Bucko. Even when we act out a scenario, the guys name is always BOB. Its our silly inside joke.

Its also funny because if you saw me, Bob just doesn't fit. I am so unmistakably female, some MAJOR girlhood going on from head to toe.

moonraven #66

Who would have EVER thought that GWB would turn out to be what he is??

Also, Powell is a patriot. He loves his country. Had he quit in the middle of the first term things would have gone far worse for this country. We would have jumped into Iraq much sooner having never addressed the UN. That would have cost us tremendously.

Condi is simply kissing frogs right now. Do you realise that she holds the highest position that any African American woman has EVER held in the history of this country? This is huge. Black women are always portrayed as loud mouthed hot heads. The image that she has portrayed is crucial. She has done more for Black women by just holding the post than a lot of activists. We need everyone with all of their gifts. I like her and I get her.

Joe

Barack needs another decade or so of public service, be it honorable or full of hookers and blow, and then he can take his shot.

Why?

I see her only as DR. RICE. Would love to shake her hand. What a remarkable person. Not to sound like a C-Pig she is also beautiful to behold.

Clavos

Richardson was born in Pasadena, California. His mother, Maria Luisa Lopez-Collada, is Mexican. His father is William Blaney/Blaine Richardson, the son of Boston-born naturalist William Blaney Richardson and his Hispanic wife Rosaura Ojeda, who was born in Nicaragua.

QED

Apologize to Zedd... come on....

Source?

Clavos

Quit stalling. Say you are sorry.

Look it up.

Nah nah nah nah nah!

Obama needs to join, and then Desert from, the Guards.

Hey, it worked for GW!

Heloise

I am going to find a political group in my area to energize.

Any luck in DFW?

Yes, actually I found a meetup group. The most organized one so far is actually an Obama group. The other ones are farther away. Will check it out anyway.

Heloise

I should never have brought up Bill Richardson on this thread.

It doesn't really matter whether he is 50% or 75% hispanic/latino/whatever you want to call it. Can you tell the difference between those percentages by looking?

I don't know what percentage Mohawk I am, as we don't know whether my was 50% or 75%. Nobody on this site--or any other--would be able to tell my what percentage I am by looking.

US elections are mostly about how one looks on t.v. (the Kennedy/Nixon debates showed that in 1960).

Richardson DOES look Hispanic/Latino/Mexican/Whatever you want to call it.

Obama does look African American--roughly 50%, like one of my nephews.

Rice looks African American.

Powell looks African American--about the same as Obama.

None of this makes ANY difference at all because Richardson will not be nominated for president.

He can only bring--MAYBE--5 electoral votes to the table. I say maybe because I believe Al Gore lost his home state in 2000.

Speaking of Al, I believe it was Dave who wanted to indicate that assholes were only appointed, not elected, to office.

I'll nominate Dave right now. It'll be a first.