"Several types of beer" - you are kidding right? There is so much to the beer world beyond the mass produced lagers of America and Europe. To say that beer and wine are not on equal footing variety and taste-wise is simply ignorant.

Check out Belgium sometime, heck check out Colorado where more than 100 breweries and pubs make a range of beers that you would be hard-pressed to qualify as beer given your obviously uninformed and narrow view.

You have so much to learn:

I love wine, I probably have 50 bottles in my cave at the house, and I have probably 10 varieties. In my beer room though, I have about 40 varieties of store-bought beer from around the US and the world, and 8 different homebrews on tap. Each of these beers has a truly uniques taste, texture and alcohol level. When you say there are just a few varieties of beer, you're referring to macro swill(Bud, Millers,Coors-BMC) Those beers bear no relation to real beer. Try a Trappist from Belgium-Chimay, Westmalle, Oval or Rochefort. All Trappists, but all very different. Try a German hefeweizen or dopplebock. Educate yourself about the vast craft beer industry that is taking over America.

You are so uninformed and stereotypical. Pls keep your babble to yourself and stop un-educating people. You don't know beer, so don't talk about it...thank you

You have so much to learn about beer.

Dear Jennifer,

You're perfectly entitled not to like beer, and I'll praise your honesty to say so. However, you're way off base when you start making value judgments about beer and the (lack of) sophistication possessed by people who drink it.

As the previous, (more vitriolic) poster managed to point out, within a tiny country like Belgium alone there is a vast variety of beer being brewed, with many venerable brands going back hunderds of years. Many ales have been brewed by Trappist monks for centuries and have a complexity to them that rivals any wine. Have you tried any of them?

I'm not going to commit the same sin you did by judging your particular pasttimes, but let me say I find it hilarious that someone who indulges in cigars will turn around and slam beer's allegedly unhealthy qualities and supposed lack of sophistication. Tell us, how is inhaling smoke and then polluting the air around you sophisticated? And it *certainly* isn't healthy, no matter what one thinks of it.

I drink beer daily -- sometimes more than one. And guess what? I'm 5' 10", weigh 145 pounds and am a dedicated distance runner. I run at least one marathon a year and can do a 10K race in 40 minutes. A "sophisticated" cigar-smoking oenophile would be hard-pressed to match that.

Oh, and I'm also a reporter at a large metropolitan daily. I mention this because as a writer, one of the lessons I've learned is to restrict my opinions to things I know, or at least make sure I research topics I have a shaky knowledge of. I have no doubt your knowledge of wine is vast, but I'd humbly suggest doing some more homework (have a few beers!) before writing about beer again.

BTW, I was pointed here by a link posted by a member of one of my favourite websites, Beer Advocate. Why don't you check it out? My user name's "vanrassel" and I've got 141 reviews under my belt if you want to take a virtual trip around the beer world.

Cheers.

Ah, another fine comment from the uninformed. All beer is not Budweiser and Miller, as the monks of Belgium will be happy to tell you. They have been brewing fine beers for almost a thousand years, and none of them resemble the yellow water that you purport to be beer. Do you know that many beers brewed today are meant to be aged like wine? There are beers that are aged in sherry and bourbon casks just like wines are. Have you ever had something moderately tasty, like a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale? Or even a Sam Adams. Please, visit a website like Ratebeer.com for a little education prior to making completely uninformed blanket statements.

Judging by your article, you are very ignorant about beer. I would advise doing more research.

It is a shame that such absurd ignorance towards beer still exists. That type of backward thinking is precisely why some reatuarants still don't "get it," and only offer such mass-produced watered-down beers as Budweiser and Coors Light as their "selection." I do not frequent such places, by the way, and imagine that you would not frequent an establishment that served only Boone's Farms or Mad Dog 20/20 wine.

The fact is that there are many etremely different beer styles, and there are hundreds of examples within each style which taste very different. And the fact that beer can range from 3% to above 20% in ABV (alcohol by volume) speaks loudly to the vast differences in taste and style that are available.

Your analysis on beer is simply laughable. I invite you to stop by my place sometime where I would be glad to provide you with an educational journey into the true nature of beer, with samples of most styles to enhance the journey.

I hope to god this article is as tongue in cheek as I think it is. Otherwise it just serves to show us what you don't know. I'm a wine consultant by trade, and a beer lover at heart. If there is one thing I don't need to see, It's another ignorant article that touts the wonders of wine by crapping all over beer. Wine has enough merits to stand all on its own. As a matter of fact beer in all of its facets, has those same merits, but you obviously couldn't be bothered to find out what they are. Check out Garret Oliver's Brewmasters Table to find out about the wonderful history of beer and how fabulous it can be with food. Or go to Beeradvocate.com or ratebeer.com to find out about the many wonderful and complex beer types the world has to offer, and meet a number of beers absolutely rabid fans. ( there's a good chance you'll get some comments and/or emails from some of these rabid fans as wll ;) )

I know, I know, if I don't like it, don't read it. Well, we'll call it even as you've deprived me of several minutes of my life I'll never get back.

JonW

You guys..relax. Have a beer, have some wine, have some Jack and Coke. Notice that this piece is Opinion. That's the great thing about an opinion piece: it's an opinion. You don't have to agree with me. I think wine is better than beer, you don't. Who cares?

As far as accusations of me not being an experienced beer drinking. Trust me, I majored in beer in college and I'm not talking about the Natural Lights and Miller Lights. I went to college in a Beer town, with a micro brew on every corner. I've tasted all kinds and I think it tastes similar (again, this is my opinion. One I am entitled to as you are to yours). As far as "Checking out Colorado." Hello. I live in Colorado. I have my whole life. I've drank from bars all over this place and there are several varieties (as I stated in my article) but to me, wine is still better and two types of wine taste more different than two types of beer ever will. This is MY opinion. Again, relax.

Carry on.

Allow me to respond to some of your points. As others have pointed out, your love of wine is indeed justified, however, in your zeal to express such, you have promoted an image of beer that the most ignorant people hold.

Beer, like wine, should not be chugged. It should be enjoyed and the flavor profiles noted. Beers encompass a wide range of flavors, aromas, textures, etc. From the hoppy, piney, citrusy punch of an West Coast IPA to the dark fruit, candy sugar, phenolic Belgian dark ales, beer's flavors profile is quite vast.

Beer, like wine, should be consumed from a glass. Further, the correct glass for the style. From curved tulips to accentuate head retention and aroma, to straig sided pilsner glasses to showcase color and carbonation. Many European brewers design a glass specifically for each of their beers.

Beer, like wine, has a rich history and rebirth history of craft beer. Look iinto the Trappist monks of Belgium, and people like Fritz Maytag, Garrett Oliver, Adam Avery, etc... and you'll see the rich history beer has.

Finally, I would reccomend reading the Brewmasters Table by Garrett Oliver in which he delivers exceptional beer and food pairings and even intimates that beer has a greater ability to be paired with food than does wine. In addition, you will also find Beeradvocate.com an excellent resource for the appreciation of quality beer.

I hope you will take these comments to heart and perhaps revise you above comments.

Oh, also, this article was written to be cheeky. While I do prefer wine to beer, a lot of what I said is done for humor. If you've ever read any of my articles, you'd know I'm sattirical by nature.

Hopslam.

find it.

drink it.

Okay...seeing how this seemed to offend every Beer Drinker in the world (which again was not my intention)I just spoke to my boss and our wine company has a proposition for you all. Every Friday we have a wine tasting, where we sample different types of wine. But, we have agreed to use next Friday for a beer tasting. If we find that you guys are right, I will write an article the following week refuting this one. But, I will need you guys to tell me what to drink to prove your point. So, can you guys send me a list of five or so beers that you recommend I try. Someone said Hopslam, which I've never heard of. It would be beneficial if these beers were easy to get a hold of in Colorado (where we are located). Thanks. JJ

Yes it is your opinion, And of course you are entitled to it. Just as the little comment box at the bottom of the screen allows us to disagree, pehaps a little vehemently. Wine is NOT the next rung up the ladder from beer. Better beer is the next rung up the ladder. You just jumped ladders thats all. I defend your right to not like beer, and if you've really tried better beer and didn't like it, thats fine. But your statement about "more expensive wheat beers served with an orange" just tells us you were probably drinking Blue Moon, which is made by Coors and is NOT expensive or better beer.

In fact there are a number of things in your article that just frustrate the hell out of me, from your intimations that wine has history while beer doesn't, beer is a drink for barbarians who swill and belch, and generally behave poorly. There are only several varieties of beer???? This is not your opinion, this is just incorrect, by a wide margin. Beer should be chugged? All this time I've been savoring my beer, how did I get it sooo wrong!

I'm just getting frustrated now. Try not te be so ignorant, you've got good things to say, just learn a little bit first.

I'm certain you're enjoying all the extra traffic. So, You're welcome.

Hopslam is brewed by Bell's Breweing Co in Kalamazoo, MI. If you can't find it, try another double IPA (Hop Wallup by Victory Brewing in PA, for instance). For a standard IPA, you could use Hazed and Infused by Colorado Brewing Co.

I would also include Orval Trappist (a Belgian which is relatively easy to find)

And Paulaner Hefeweiss, also easy to find.

I would also suggest that you pick a nice stout, how about Rogue's Shakespeare Stout (Oregon)

Those are some ideas to provide some contrasting styles and tastes. I'll let others chime in with more suggestions.

Just for personal justification, which breweries in CO have you visited and what types of beers have you consumed? I find it impossible that anyone on this earth can find that "most" beers taste alike. So, to save your reputation, possibly enlighten us as to what beers you drank in the past.
And where is this college where you "majored in beer"? Does that mean you actually took classes on the brewing of beer or that you drank lots of beer. I assume it is the latter. Like most college students who are broke, you probably chose to drink cheaper beers for the psychological and physiological effects, rahter than taste. I majored in wine my first semester, when I consumed Mad Dog Orange Jubilee and Boones Farm Strawberry Fields wine. Toss in some Franzia and Julio Gallo and you can call me an "expert", right?. Thanks for clearing things up for us. X

Satire is one thing, incorrect is another.
There are a ton of microbreweries in Colorado, Avery and New Belgium are two of the bigger ones.

Stone Russian Imperial Stout from San Diego, should be available is chock full of flavor and complexity. Saison Dupont is a generally available saison from Belgium and a great choice.

That should get you started

JonW

Ill give it a quick off the top of my head try:

Chimay Grand Reserve (Belgium)
Bell's 2 hearted ale (Kalamazoo)
Fuller's ESB (England)
Goose Island Nut Brown Ale (Chicago)
Franziskaner Hefeweizen (Germany)

Only doing 5 is hard, Im missing at leat 40-50 good styles. Not sure if Goose Island or Bell's distribute to Colorado, but you can find an IPA/Brown ale replacement for both locally. None of those 5 taste anything like each other.

If you want 5 beers to showcase the range of flavors and taste, try the following:

1. St. Bernardous ABT 12
2. Russian River Beatification
3. Avery Maharaja
4. Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout
5. Victory Prima Pils

Propper Glassware will help as well.

(Although I cannot vouge for the availability of all in the said area)

I am a member of The Wine Society and of the Campaign for Real Ale , which puts me firmly into both camps.
Both drinks give me great joy and I have tried over the years to extend my knowledge of them.What I have found is that one is not superior to the other,they are different and let us rejoice in the availability of both.Nobody can say that lobster is better than fillet steak , certainly they may prefer one or the other , but to go further than this is absurd.
Perhaps you have based your opinions on the dreadful mass produced so called beers on the market.If these were the only beers available your comments would be valid but you cannot fairly compare wine with only the worst beers in the world.

Also, before serving the beers for the tasting, make sure you research the PROPER temperature for them. None of the ones I suggested should be served ice cold, like is usually done with macro american beers.

If I had to pick 5 beers that would demonstrate the range of beer, I would choose:

1)Cantillon Broucsella (1900) Grand Cru (though Cantillon Geuze would work if you can't find the Grand Cru). You can substitute this with La Folie from New Belgium, a colorado brewery

2) Avery 13, from Avery another colorado brewery.

3) Rauchator Doppelbock from Ft. Collins (yet another brewery in Colorado)

4) Yeti Imperial Stout, from Great Divide Brewery in Colorado

5) Titan IPA, from Great Divide.

Now, these brews tend to emphasize the malt aspect of beer more than the hop aspect, but I still think that this will cover a nice range of tastes and styles, and if you use the La Folie for #1, it is all beers that are readily available in your state. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the range and complexity of these drinks.

I have to agree with most of the comments written about your opinion. you are certainly entitled to it, but much of what you said is uneducated on the topic. There is a whole bunch of history about beer. Check out what indian pale ales are, as well as russian imperial stouts, or baltic porters. btw, i would feel sorry for any person who tried to chug a russian imperial stout, i think the intensity of the flavor and alc. would make it nearly impossible (i had a bottle last night and it took about an hour to finish). Check out Dogfish head brewery from Delaware to see some interesting beers full of history (Midas touch, Chateau Jiahu, etc).Weihenstephan brewery in Germany has been brewing since the year 1040...i bet you can find history there. After you research, you will also find what a vast variety beer has to offer, and after trying those craft beers, you will be see the large spectrum of flavors so many beers offer. I enjoy wine very much, but beer provides a much bigger variety. You dont have to like it, but please respect it.

Oh, and beer does have health benifets (in moderation). Just like beer, wine will lose the nutritional value if you drink too much, so dont think wine is superior in that aspect either. So go out and get you a nice quadrupel and check out it's compexities...but remember to drink this at cellar temp like you wines, it's meant to be savored.

shbobdb suggested some Cantillon products. I was going to suggest their Gueuze, just because it is physically impossible to drink it and then say all beers taste the same. I have never heard anyone describe Bud Light as "horseblankety".

What town are you located in so we can also point you to a store likely to carry the suggested beers?

As a start, 1) Rochefort 10 for a Belgian Trappist Ale, 2) Great Divide's Old Ruffian for barleywine style, 3) Great Divide's Old Yeti or Rogue's Imperial Stout for a Russian Imperial Stout, 4)Breckinridge's 471 Small Batch IPA for the hop experience.

That should begin to showcase the variety offered in beer today.

Working just from beers that should be easily available and local to Colorado

Avery out of bounds stout
New Belgium 2degrees below winter ale
New Belgium 1554 black beer
Great Divide Titan Ipa
Flying Dog Old Scratch Amber Lager
Left Hand deep cover brown ale
Avery the Reverend Belgian Style Quadrupel

make it 7 and you're in business

JonW

Okay..seven will work.

How about these five from Great Divide which is brewed in CO and should be easily accesible to you:

Old Ruffian Barleywine
Oak aged Yeti Imperial Stout
Hercules Double IPA
Hibernation ale
Ridgeline Amber ale

The first four of these are strong and close to wine as far as abv%. These should be accesible to you and are all great beers and completely different from one another. For other ideas, hit up beeradvocate.com and click on beer styles or follow this link http://beeradvocate.com/beer/style
Thanks for keeping an open mind!

I'm in Denver, close to downtown..but I'm saying this with the confidence that you guys won't find me and murder me with a broken wine bottle. I'm kind of a bleeder.

No promises on that. Not if I catch you chugging a beer (or even drinking from a bottle).

JJ - 5 beers available in Colorado for your tasting:

De Dolle Brouwers Dulle Teve

Rochefort 10

Great Divide Yeti Imperial Stout (Denver)

Sierra Nevada Bigfoot (Chico California - seasonal out now)

Schlenkerla Urbock

The above beers represent a huge range in flavor and texture. Four of them are ales and the last one, the Schlenkerla, is a lager made by kilning the malt over a beachwood fire and the beer picks up the smoke flavor. No added colorings or flavorings.

Possibly visit a brewery near you and learn the ins and outs of making and sampling beer. These tours are generally quite informative and are usually pretty informal so questions and comments are encouraged.


Great Divide Brewing Company
2201 Arapahoe Street, Denver

Twisted Pine Brewing Company
3280 Valmont Rd, Boulder

Avery Brewing Company
5763 Arapahoe Avenue Unit E, Boulder

Redstone Meadery
4700 Pearl St., Unit 2-A, Boulder

Boulder Beer / Wilderness Pub
2880 Wilderness Place, Boulder

Flying Dog Brewery
2401 Blake Street, Denver

Breckenridge BBQ & Brew Pub
471 Kalamath Street, Denver

Coors Brewing Company
13th and Ford Street, Golden

As long as you evaluate the beers like you would a wine, Colour, aroma, body, flavour, finish, etc... you should do fine, and hopefully be pleasantly surprised. Dont chill the hell out of the beer either. Beer will typically show it's best face at cellar temperature, much as wine does.

Good luck, I look forward to reading the results, wether yay or nay.

JonW

Here is a list of stores in the area. They should be able to help you put together your tasting options.

Total Beverage
770 East 104th Avenue, Thornton

Liquor Mart
1750 15th St., Boulder

RoundUp Liquors
12165 Sheridan Bouldevard, Broomfield

Chambers Wine & Liquor
15260 E. Iliff Ave (Iliff & Chambers), Aurora

Colorado Liquor Mart
865 South Colorado Boulevard, Denver

The Wine Company
5910 South University Boulevard, D4, Greenwood Village

one more thing to add on to what Errrrrrr said. DO NOT SPIT. Beer tasters never spit.

I'm glad to see you're open-minded enough to try a beer tasting and test your theory. A word of caution, though: you're testing for diversity, not enjoyment. Many of the beers that have been suggested are pretty potent, and while many of us advocates enjoy them, many may be an acquired taste, as is the case with wine.

If you come out liking even one or two of these beers, I'd consider that a big win. Just remember to consume it the same way you would wine...swirl it, sniff it, sip it, etc. No beer bongs, please!

Beers can be intensely sour, intensely bitter, intensely sweet, chocolatey, phenolic, grassy, yeasty...the list goes on and on. I could drink a Manischevitz and a Retsina side by side and think they're both horrendous, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't recognize the vast array of possible experiences wine can provide to my senses.

And here's a little bit of your legwork done. These seem to be some of the better to buy beer in the Denver area.

Merchant Of Vino/Whole Foods
7400 East Hampden Avenue
Denver, Colorado, 80231

Colorado Liquor Mart
865 South Colorado Boulevard
Denver, Colorado, 80246-8006

Grapes and Grains
2780 S. Colorado Blvd. 304
Denver, Colorado, 80222

Morgan Liquors
1200 East Evans Ave
Denver, Colorado, 80112

Okay cool. I've got a lot of suggestions. Some I have tried before at various beer festivals, but some of them I've never even heard of. I think I will go with seven, since someone said that five wasn't enough. I will see what I think. If I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. I can eat, or rather drink, crow. I will taste these next Friday so an article about it will appear the following week (the 19th). Stay turned. Thanks for the suggestions.

Cheers to an open mind!

Wow, I must be even sophisticateder than you, I drink whiskey.

Let's point this.

If you drink whiskey too fast, you wind up dead, not just sick: point to me.

Whiskey is so strong, it takes months of sipping experience to be able to get past the alcohol "wall" and actually taste the nuances: point to me.

Whiskey comes from different countries and states, different ages and vintages, and different grains and yeasts: we'll call that one even.

History? Ever heard of the Whiskey Rebellion, a seminal moment in American history when Washington led more troops than he did in the Revolutionary War? And when his Continental Army troops were freezing at Valley Forge, Washington didn't send out for wine, he sent "Teufel Pete" Muehlenburg to Lancaster and Reading for whiskey. Distillation was an important technology transfer from the Middle East to Europe. Ulysses S. Grant's career was soaked in whiskey. Scottish history, Irish history, Canadian and American history: everywhere you turn, there's whiskey: we'll call that one even, although I'm betting there wasn't a Wine Rebellion at any point.

And behavior, decorum? Ahem. The Windsors drink whisky. Scots clad in full kilted fig drink whisky. Harry Truman drank whiskey. Whiskey comes with a regalia and armamentarium of ritual and accessories equal to wine, a dignity equal to wine. It's a sacrifice, but we'll call this one equal.

Looks like 2-null, my favor. Which all comes down to nothing, really: it's silly.

Wine is a drink of the proletariat in Europe. It WAS the drink of the street bum in America until about 40 years ago, when some savvy Californians decided to make some money and changed wine's character and image in this country. Any advantage wine has over beer is wholly in the eye of the beholder...which at this blog, you are.

Good luck at the tasting next Friday. Don't forget to have some cheese: it goes better with beer, you know.

Westmalle Dubbel-sublime,
Orval for the contrast,
Old Rasputin Imperial stout
Hoegaarden
Dupont Saison
I chose these not only because they are great beers, but there's a lot of variety here and they should be easy to get. Serve them properly-you wouldn't judge a red wine served from a bucket of ice and poured into a styrofoam cup.

Wow, your level of ignorance is truly shocking. Not only are there dozens of types of beers, each unique in identity, but 99.9% of these beers are not intended for drinking games or chugging.

Bud Light and "wheat beers served with an orange" are not good examples of beer. Bud light is quite terrible, created to be bland (do a google patent search). Wheat beers aren't supposed to be served with any fruit.

Beer has historically been significantly stronger than the swill produced in America today by the 3 big brewers, in the 8% + range. Numerous beers today are stronger than typical wines.

Complexity and flavor in real beer rivals that of wine. Try any number of belgian beers, or some strong stouts, barleywines, etc.

True beer is made to be enjoyed in the company of friends, not chugged or drunk in mass quantities. Get your head out of Budweiser's ass and see what real beer is like before you pollute the internet with more of this pointless, uninformed, incorrect drivel.

I wanted to suggest some things that you may actually enjoy as well as taste the differences. There are many extremely good beers above, however the non-beer fan, may not appreciate some of them for their greatness. Here are a couple to add that you may enjoy and they are also extremely well made.

Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout
Dogfish Head Raison D'Etra (be sure it's the D'Etra not the D'Extra, huge difference on ABV)

The DFH should have some slight wine similarities as it's made with white raisons and is still very potent at 8% ABV. The Sammy Smith is going to be slightly sweet and many non-beer drinkers like it as well as the beer advocates of the world. Cheers to you for accepting the challenge!

And the BeerAdvocates prevail!
Thank you for having an open-mind about trying some of the ultra-fine brews mentioned above. I say try:
Rochford 10 or 12
Chimay Red or Blue
Bell's HopSlam
Sierra Nevada Bigfoot BarleyWine (drink at about 50-55 degrees)
Ommegang Farmhouse Saison
Brooklyn's Black Chocolate Stout
New Glarus' Wisconsin Belgian Red (nice, deep cherry flavor)

Good luck with your tastings, and I look forward to your reviews. Good Day!

try

Sam Smith's Imperial Stout

Avery's Mephistopheles

Dogfish Head's 120 Minute I.P.A.

Newport Storm's Coastal Extreme 2006 (aka the "06")

if someone with a palate able to pick up the complexities in wine is not able to decipher the massive differences between each of these brews, this individual would probably either be stoned, or lying to themselves.

p.s.
beers have no fat content, and most well crafted brews have the same carb count as your average wine.

also dark beers are known to have all the health benefits of red wine (and more).

do a little research on that one when ya get some time.

Cheers for the open mind...In fact you could benefit from this by offering some open minded beer geek a chance to learn more about wine and they can in turn aid in your beer education.

I am sure you have a bunch of recommendations, and so I will add some more. A lot of my wine drinking friends enjoy Rodenbach or Duchesse du Burgoine. I will also second the Saison DuPont.

Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe you guys will change my mind..I'm stubborn, but no unyielding.

I will have to figure out what 7 (from your lists) I will try. I don't care much about price as I will totally use this as a tax write-off. It's work, right?

Try :

Duchesse de Bourgogne (A Flanders Red aged in oak and blended at the ages of 8 and 18 months)

Lagunitas Maximus Imperial IPA - or - Left Hand Twin Sisters IPA

Cantillon Geueze

Alaskan Smoked Porter or Left Hand Smoke Jumper or Aecht Schlenkerla Urbock Rauchbier (save these for last and light up a stogie with them)

Anderson Valley Boont Amber

Rochefort 8 or 10

St. Bernardus Abt 12

Kulmbacher Eisbock or Schneider Aventinus

Gouden Carolus Grand Cru of the Emperor (any vintage you can find will do, but for some real fun, search out three or four and do a vertical tasting - you'll be amazed at the way the character of the beer develops over time, just like fine wines)

Also, keep your eyes peeled for a bottle or two of Thomas Hardy's, again any vintage.

Above all, as variety is what you're looking for, check with the staff at the store you make your purchases at to make sure that you're not cherry picking a suggestion or two from all of us and ending up with 7 beers of the same style. They'll taste different, but perhaps not enough for your purposes here.

Yeah..that's a good point. The Cherry picking you pointed out. I thought about that too if I just pick and choose from the list, I might end up with a lot of beer that is similar.

What I will do is, over the weekend, I will compose a list of the seven beers I'm going to try (generated from all the suggestions) and I will post it to this comment box on Monday. You guys can then tell me if I need to swap a certain beer out for another.

I scanned through and saw no mention of New Belgium's La Folie. That is a MUST for your tasting and it is Colorado made.

As someone who loves both wine and beer I feel comfortable saying beer has a slightly greater flavor range as far as extremes. An Imperial Stout to a Pale Lager or a Berliner Weisse is a huge departure of flavor points.

Also, go to one of the beer websites and get familiar with the proper glassware and how to pour. As a beer columnist it is very frustrating to read comments like yours. You describe beer only in the context of drinking games and college.

Would it be fair for me to describe wine only in the context of sipping Mad Dog 20/20 in the alley behind the liquor store?

It's one thing to be humorous, but your humor was based on a very narrow understanding of beer, beer history and beer styles. A point you beautifully illustrate when you claim several styles for beer. There are many more than several and new styles continue to gain a foothold in the market.

Lastly.....seven different beers may not change your mind at all. But you do like beer. You just have to find the beer you like:

Hey, at least you're trying. If you can't find some of the sour beers those guys mentioned (Duchesse de Bourgogne, Cantillon Geuze, etc.), you can always try here: Russian River Brewing

Go to the gift shop and check out their bottled beers. Right now they have Temptation available in 375ml bottles. If you're looking for something different, it definitely is.

I ordered some bottles Monday, and got it today (in Boise), so you'll probably get it in time.

Lastly, think about this: how many variable ingredients are there in wine? In beer? If anything, beer is *more* complex.

You really should not be allowed to own a computer, let alone have access to the internet. Your article is so rife with one sided garbage it was like reading a book written by Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

Nothing like building an article with skewed facts for bricks and a little bullshit for mortar.

Go for diversity, don't let the five beers be all the same choose from significantly different Styles of beer. and try a Rauchbier like" Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Urbock " its a smoked beer I think its available to you. I was very hesitant to try it. I had it in my fridge for a couple months. When I gave it a try I couldn't believe how good it was. It was like a vacation in a bottle. I was taken away in my mind to childhood camping trips, and nights by the campfire cooking steak tips on sticks we would sharpen.

I drank beer like you and never liked it. Then I pretty much stopped drinking. My friends were into wine so I Was going to tasting and always trying some glass of something note worthy, But I really wasn't into it. Then a couple years ago I was in a liquor store buying a bottle of something to drink on Christmas eve. Christmas was the only time I myself would go into a liquor store to buy something for myself, and I would also grab a bottle of whatever mid range bottle of Champaign the store was running a special on. that would be for new years a week later. I was looking around and saw a bottle of beer with a Christmas tree on it. The Beer was In a big bottle 750 ml. for $8. The beer was Cisco brewing co. special Holiday release called celebration libation. I thought it looked right for the occasion and Bought it. I couldn't believe how good it was. I didn't realize how far the craft beer scene had evolved. I didn't just like it I loved it, it tasted so wonderful. I started learning and trying more styles of beer. My friends thought I was nuts and didn't even want to try it. Since that time I have pulled two of my friends over to beer and one of them wants me to join him in getting into brewing our own beer. I keep telling him just keeping up with all the different beers to try is more than I want to drink. I don't want to brew a few gallons of beer as I feel I will be drinking to much.

Good luck on your beer tasting

Wow, it's great to see the support for good beer. Sadly this article reveals a nasty and ignorant trend in the some European countries. Take Ireland for example. Guinness is actually at the point where they are considering selling off the Guinness label in Ireland, the home of this iconic beverage. While doing very well in almost all other international markets, where Guinness is seen as a high end, classy product, in Ireland (with their new found money comes snobbery) still associates it as a working mans drink and so have turned to wine (it seems climbing the ladder in their pathetic mind). How sad. There is still much work for us beer lovers to do as we educate people and restore beer to it's rightful place in Canada and the US. We have seen a fine beer revolution in last three decades that is now maturing and we see more educated and refined drinkers instead of 'brand' drinkers and 'fickle' 'trendy' drinkers which is also bad for the craft brewing industry. When I go to a restaurant, I like to pull a Michael Jackson (the beer critic, not the other) and ask to see the beer list (he maintains that beer goes better with food then wine, and I agree), when they plead ignorance, he asks for jug of cheap wine which of course they do not have, and so he asks them why they serve the equivalent in beer. Long live IPAs and Belgium Ales!

Beer is a superior beverage in every way.
Good wine is simply luck.You're at the mercy of nature.Good beer is skill.

Baybrewer, that says it all.

I write about beer and work for a brewery also judge both beer and wine and can attest to the fact that beer can be far more complex than wine, while I do love both.

If you give me an address I will send you a good cross section of beers from a Brandy barrel aged barleywine to Gouden Carolus Grand Cru of the Emperor a rich complex belgian strong ale that is excellent paired with a dark chocolate torte. [Personal contact info deleted]

My loyal fans...or whatever..
okay, here are the seven beers I have chosen to try this Friday at the beer tasting:

Natural Light (relax, I'm kidding). I chose
Saison DuPont, Orval Trappist, Goose Island Nut Brown Ale, Titan IPA, Hoegaarden, Ridgeline Amber ale, HopSlam

First question, are any of these two closely related that I should swap one out? Also, how would you suggest these be drank? What temp, kind of glass, etc?

Thanks, JJ

Oh..I also wanted to try the New Belgium's La Folie so I might make it 8.

Personally, I really think you should get either St. Bernardus 12 or Rochefort 10 in there, preferably the St. Bernardus. It's a classic example of Belgian brewing, that I've found many people new to the world of beer enjoy. Orval is more hit and miss with people, as the funkiness of it will turn many off. You will still get a bit of the earthy flavors from the Saison DuPont, so I'd say replace Orval with St. Bernardus.

One other possibility is to replace the regular Saison DuPont with their winter saison, named Avec Les Bons Voeux. Their regular saison is a great benchmark saison, the winter one is just incredible - creamy, rich, spicy - a true treat.

Also, be prepared with the IPAs to possibly not like them. The bitterness of the hops take some time to get accustomed to. So, even if you don't personally like it, those are good beers to see how American brewers use hops.

Good luck!

Also, for temperature, don't go colder than about 45 degrees. For the stronger beers, 50-55 is about right. You can look up the beers you end up with on beeradvocate to get some good serving temperatures, and glass recommendations. If you go with the St. Bernardus, an oversized wine glass would serve you just fine.

"First question, are any of these two closely related that I should swap one out? Also, how would you suggest these be drank? What temp, kind of glass, etc?"

You can start around 50 degrees, but if you do so make note of how the flavor changes as it warms. It will change.

Bitterness is highlighted when a beer is cold while other flavors are muted. The inexpensive mass produced lagers don't use much in the way of bittering hops so when ice cold they taste ok (by their standards) but when a more flavorful and more heavily hopped ale or lager are served at that same ice cold temperature they often taste too bitter and their good range of flavors is undetectable to your numbed tongue.

I suspect this is one of the main reasons people try and dislkike craft beers. They get them too cold. That is a big problem here in Florida where frozen glasses are the norm.

So start around 50F as a general rule. Darker beers like Porter and Stout I prefer in around 60F but if you start at 50 F it's a good catch all temp and gives the beer time to warm and offer different flavors. I belive the wine term is "open up" and beer will open up as it warms.

These 8 beers may not change your mind, but hopefully they will open your eyes and you will give beer another chance. You do like beer...you just have to keep trying till you find the ones you like. www.ratebeer.com is another great site to check out for beer info and a knowledgeable beer community.

Seriously, why do beer drinkers even entertain the naive and conceited that seem to think a Stout, Belgian beer, and Budweiser all taste the same?
Let them live their drab anti-depressant soaked lives in cluelessness, we don't need em.

okay..I will replace the Orval with the St. Bernardus

Please make sure to treat your beer tasting exactly as you would any wine tasting. I have URL'd BeerAdvocate's guide for reviewing beer (next to my name), just in case there may be different guidelines to look/prepare for between wine and beer. Just make sure to cleanse between beers: nothing ruins a beer tasting more than a tainted palate.

Bravo! well chosen, diverse selection of beers. I'll echo everyone else with the 50-55 degree serving temp. And just add that for me, a nice red burgundy glass works great for evaluating beer, I rarely ever use a pint glass. I think we're all looking forward to the results next week.

JonW

I would suggest replacing the Hoegaarden, there is some controversy surrounding this beer. The brand is from a multinational, InBev, which is in the process of closing the brewery that produces it. I would suggest Schneider Aventinus in its place, probably one of the best beers currently produced in Germany.

I would also swap the Orval with Rochefort 10, a very strong, dark beer that should be left until the end.

The Titan IPA/Hopslam Double IPA may be too similar, although I can't say for certain as I have personally only had the Titan.

Rob

Yes, you really are ignorant about beer, but I don't feel the need to beat you up about it. You can visit countless websites right now (including my humble blog) to learn more, then you can try some great beers, then you can write another article explaining why you were wrong. Cheers!

Rob, don't ever tell anyone to swap the Orval! ;-)

In reply to RobBeer, the Orval has been replaced by the St. Bernardus 12. This is the list right now:

Saison DuPont
St. Bernardus 12
Goose Island Nut Brown Ale
Titan IPA
Hoegaarden
Ridgeline Amber Ale
HopSlam

kudos to your openmindedness. you are entitled to like wine, but you did come across heavy handed in a bias against beer.

i drank beer from 13 to 18, and then, i decided "hey, i don't like beer!", and stopped.

a few years ago (i'm in my late 30s now), i decided to make bratwurst in beer, despite not liking beer. lo and behold, i tried the beer, and liked it.

i've since realized that the beers i drank in my teenage years were awful, awful beers, and i had never had good beer.

in the past couple of years, i've tried numerous beers in a quest to quench my new beerlust. and it is a wonderful experience. i've learned what i don't like (not to fond of super hoppy beers) and what i love (mmmm, porters)..

i do urge you to hit up the beeradvocate.com website. it's opened my eyes to proper temperatures, the right types of glasses, and different styles of beers.

again, kudos for your willingness to give a new breed of beer a try.

Since Im not a conisoir of fine wine I stock my styrofoam cooler with Bud and MD20. The folks at my trailer park like it. If you drink enough MD you get a sophisticated feeling. That's when we head over to big Bertha's single wide for the fried chicken, Elvis sightings, watermelon and watch for alien abductions. Thanks Jennifer for an excellent blog. Gave up MD20 years ago. Of course should I ever find myself homeless and live on the streets MD would be my kind of wine.

JJ-

I like the list, especially getting the GI Nut Brown in there, since that was one of my suggestions :).

No problems with anything other than noting you have 3 Belgians and nothing from England or Germany. I wouldnt worry about the Inbev/Hoegaarden thing but if you wanted a german, replacing a wit with a hefe wouldnt be a bad thing.

Not sure there is an easy replacement to get a UK beer in, but amber ales bore me, so I would replace it. But thats just me.

It looks like other than the Titan/Hopslam you shouldnt have any 2 beers that remotely taste alike.

True, she does have 3 Belgians. But that's not a bad thing, as some of the Belgian beers are going to be the most complex, which hopefully she can appreciate coming from wine. I'd agree that Hoegaarden could be replaced by a good hefe. And the amber could be replaced too - it's not that highly rated anyway.

I would personally not use the Goose Island, Titan, Hoegaarden, Ridgeline or Hopslam. The Goose Island is a very mediocre brew with a lot of caramel astringency. The titan is just a plain mess. The Hoegaarden is but a shadow of its former self and is quite a pathetic Wit. The ridgeline is full of crystal malt and tastes like a glass of bad iced tea and the Hopslam is a very ragged overly astringent pile of crap of a beer. The Orval you had is a much beeter beer.

JJ,

Please better research your opinions prior to publishing in the future. By passing off ignorance as fact, you can clearly cause a lot of discord, evidenced by the many posts responding to your original article. While I'm thrilled that (as I read this thread) it appears that the outrage your original screed prompted is causing you to become more educated about beer, this process hardly seems the most efficient way to educate yourself about beer.

Blog responsibily!

BS

BS
Relax..this is an opinion piece with intended controversy (it's controversy that gets traffic). How can an "opinion piece" be passed off as "Fact". Those words are atonymous. Never take an opinion piece as fact. You would have an argument if I had passed this off as "news" but I didn't. It's opinion. Why is it okay for Mike L to say Hopslam is a "crap of beer" but I can't say I like wine more than beer?

Despite what you likely think, this was not based merely on drinking Coors and Keystone light. As previously stated, I live in Colorado and have gone to more beer festivals than I can count. I've sampled a ton (in fairness to beer, this was usually done when I was under the influence as it only takes a few beers to get me drunk).

I can see why you guys may think that I was trying to insinuate that beer lacks the history of wine. Of course it has history. Everything has history or it wouldn't exist. I was merely saying that wine drinkers should embrace the history of wine.

However, I have agreed to try to change my opinion on wine being more sophisticated than beer. That is the point of the beer tasting. I admit that the article was harsh on beer and one sided, but most opinion pieces are. I am willing to try to give beer a fair chance. But, don't say I passed this off as fact. You know that's not fair to me.

Plus, I have enough on my plate...being that I'm pretty sure I'm the father of Anna Nicole's baby and all.

Anyway, moving on...is Hopslam in or out. I have some people saying it's crap and some people saying it's great. Of course both opinions are in the eye of the beholder and I'm really going more for diversity than great taste. So, what's the verdict on Hopslam..yay or nay.

Sorry..I meant the words are antonymous, not atonymous..I can't spell today.

You should keep the Hopslam, it is a fantastic Double IPA. Right now Bells Brewing Co simply cannot keep it on the shelves. Hopefully you have found some, as it isn't easy and they are finished brewing it for this year, I believe.

Good luck!
and Cheers~
SC

There appears to be a few liquor stores in the Denver/Boulder area that carry Hopslam. I think I will keep it..just to see what all the fuss is about.

JJ,

Im the father of Anna Nicole's baby, so you are mistaken. But thats just my opinion.

Also, just because it was an opinion piece doesnt mean it doesnt contain facts within in. I dont have a problem with your opinions of beer (not matter how silly they are) but with the wrong factual statements within the article.

Wow. Your ignorance of beer and it's complexities is astonishing. An good opinion is based off of research and understanding what you're making an opinion about. You've demonstrated total ignorance, and so your opinion becomes utterly worthless.

Okay...is this the final list

Saison DuPont
St. Bernardus 12
Goose Island Nut Brown Ale
Titan IPA
Hoegaarden
Ridgeline Amber Ale
HopSlam
New Belgium's La Folie

I'm going to try to get these all tomorrow (before it snows, AGAIN) so if anyone has any changes, speak now or forever hold your yeast. If I can't find something, I will let you know and we can swap accordingly.

Again I would replace the Hopslam, Goose Island, Titan and Ridgeline. They are all extremely mediocre beers at best. I write for a beer magazine and run many judging events thru the year including wine judging. Orval would be a much better choice, Deus would also be good it is doen Methode de Champenois and is very complex yet very delicate at the same time. Old Rsputin from North Coast would give you a different dimension altogether. As for the Hopslam many people do like it unfotunately they do not have a clue what a good double IPA should taste like.

Maybe I will replace two of the ones with two of your suggestions. I will see what is the easiest to find at the liquor stores of your suggested items.

JJ -

i wouldnt replace anything. The Titan and HopSlam may not be the best IPAs and DIPAs (although hopslam is the #5 rated DIPA on beeradvocate.com) but they should represent those styles well, and those styles need to be included. I havent specifically had either, so I cant say as to their quality. I personally would recommend Bell's 2 hearted as an IPA, but since Bell's makes Hopslam that wouldnt make sense to have it and Hopslam.

Despite what MikeL says, GI's nut brown is a wonderful beer, and since their arent any UK beers, you might as well have one in an English style.

Thanks for setting up your beer tasting.

In post #80 you point out that
"this was not based merely on drinking Coors and Keystone light. As previously stated, I live in Colorado and have gone to more beer festivals than I can count. I've sampled a ton"

Respectfully, would you mind listing some of the beers you sampled *before* you wrote the original opinion piece? And some of the festivals you attended?

TIA

Three things that haven't been mentioned.

1. Wine, at its upper end, is a much more expensive indulgence than is beer.

2. Beer is nowhere near a subtle as wine. The taste of a good beer hits you right away. Wine requires a more conscious effort. Swirl it in the glass to check the color. Sniff it. Drink, aerate and chew on it.

3. Beer and wine react differently. All beers are good drunk fresh. Most beers don't age well, but some change character in dramatic and interesting ways as they age. Wines typically have a sweet spot in the age spectrum when they are at their best.

Wow, It's seems that MikeL knows exactly what is good for all of us. The object of this exercise ( I think ), is not to make ms. JJ become an overnight beer-lover, rather it's to demonstrate that beer can be a complex, refined, enlightened drink, with all subtlety and complexity of wine. On this I hope she comes to agree, if not actually enjoy one or two of the beers.

I think you've got a lovely lineup. and even if one beer is similiar to another in style, it will only serve to highlight the complexities, subtleties and differences that beer can have.

JonW

I routinely attend both the Great American Beer Festival in Denver and the Bluegrass/Beer Festival in Keystone. You may wonder why someone who doesn't like beer goes, but I don't dislike it enough to pass up the opportunity to drink for cheap (20 bucks gets you all you can drink). I can't give you specific names of beers as I don't keep track, I'm bad with names of beers and, admittingly names of wines, but I assure you that I sample a ton and Bud Light / Coors Light are not present. A lot of vendors are from Fort Collins or Boulder as those are big beer towns in Colorado but they have people from everywhere. I prefer the Keystone one as its outside. The GABF is crammed inside the convention center. Far too many people and don't even get me started on the line for the ladie's room.

A few years ago I tried to do the Beer Tour at Old Chicago's. You have to drink a certain amount of beers and you get prizes along the way. Once the tour is complete, you get your name on the wall or something like that. I bowed out because the beers there are too expensive and it would have cost me hundreds of dollars in beer to get my name on the wall... plus,I can get my name on the wall at the bus station for free. ; )

Jon W..I agree with you and am sticking to the original list. It's just easier.

Beerfests are fun and, agreed, a great way to drink a ton of varied beers on the cheap. As a way to judge the quality between brews, however, they fall short. So many beers in succession both taints the characteristics of the beers and gets you buzzed really fast. It would surprise me if anyone would regularly come away from such functions with anything to write home about.

I've been to dozens of beer fests and tasted probably around a thousand beers in total, and only two beers--Dogfish Head World Wide Stout and Dale's Pale Ale--ever truly "wowed" me. (For Dales it was the simple fact that someone put THAT flavorful of a beer in a can.) Be it coincidence or not, they were also the first beers I drank at those particular events.

Any idea on your timeline for the tasting and your subsequent story?

Yeah I agree about Beer Tasting..not the best way to really get a good taste for it.

I am thinking the article will be done Wed or Thurs. I intended to do the tasting on Friday but something came up at work so now it looks like tomorrow or Tues.

THis article will be posted tomorrow afternoon guys. FYI

Wow. Ma'am, you have no clue what the heck you are talking about. It seems that you just hung out with beer chugging morons in college. I enjoy beer. I sip beer. I enjoy beer. I Never chug beer. You, on the other hand, seem to not like wine, rather you like the swanky image you feel wine has. Get over yourself lady.

Uh..Jeff..you're about two weeks too late on your comments. Why don't you try reading my follow up article and then take your own "get over yourself" advice.