"There are more minorities collectively than whites but as an individual demographic, whites outnumber all other races."

I'm not sure this is true.

Blacks make up about 12% of the population. Hispanics (some of whom consider themselves to be "white") make up about 14%. East Asians are another 6%. Native Americans are another 2%. Pacific Islanders are maybe 1%. Asians from central Asia/the Middle East/North Africa make up another 3%. Jews (if you consider them to be a "race") make up another 3%.

So. You're still left with at least 59% Whites in the US. Which is not a minority any way you look at it.

"I am now, more than ever before, convinced that people should have to pass a test before they can vote."

If only! :-/

B D

Not sure if I understand what your article is saying.

Black is not just a race, White is. Black is an ethnicity. White ethnic groups are Italian, Polish, Irish, etc.

If you lived in a predominantly Irish city, it wouldn't be weird if the Irish community rallied around an Irish candidate, at all. No one would cry fowl. Well that is what happened in this area.

Black is also an interest group.

All of these things that Black represents is not just something that people choose for it to represent, it is because of our history.

It is ridiculous to constantly compare "blacks get to do this and whites don't get to do this". We have a very recent history which says things are NOT the same. We don't have the same history and therefore we don't have the same solutions. Just don't sorry.

When I said that whites are outnumbered collectively, that was taking into account a percentage of the population that always considers themselves as others or by another class (not strictly "white")

As for the idea that black is an ethnicity or that it should not be unusual if an Irish community wanted an Irish person, granted this is on the face of it true. However, if a person in the Irish community said "we need to rally behind one Irish candidate or some black guy is going to win" there would be an uproar.

The fact is, we are all Americans and from all I can see, regardless of color, families want the same things. We all want to be safe, have good jobs and good schools. There should be no pandering to any particular group for the things that all groups want.

As for how a black guy could run it better, it was proven that this is not necessarily so when the lasy Mayor was in there (the one before O'malley).

The point of the article is not to race bait or pull races apart. It is to show that in our society we are willing to accept these things in the name of political correctness. Jesse jackson gets away with saying racist things because he is black. A white guy gets skewered.

To blame this on our past is childish and illogical. Just because blacks were wronged a long time ago (and no one who was involved is alive) does not mean they get a free pass or that it is OK to discriminate against any other group. Racist statements like this polarize communities and serve no good purpose.

I hear all the time how we still have institutional racism and racism is alive and well in America. I know it is there, on both sides. There are black and white who hate people based solely on the color of skin. But the fact that slaves (who were sold by other blacks) were owned is not a reason to have a Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, the United Negro College Fund, Miss Black USA, BET or to have different standards for non-blacks for admission to college. Rallying around a candidate by the community is one thing. Leaders saying that they need to rally to keep a person of another color out is entirely different.

In the year 2007 one would hope that people could look at the person and not the color of the person.

I also think that the fact that people trumped up O'Malley for the Governor's race and are now saying he did a bad job shows a lot about the intelligence of the electorate.

Very sad indeed.

BTW, according to my thesaurus Race and Ethnicity are the same. You proved that when you said that white is just a race and then described white ethnicity. Black and White are races that are comprised of different ethnic groups and the terms are used interchangably.

How about running someone who's half black & half white; that way s/he can be counted on to look out for all interests?

What malarkey! As if race matters when looking out for the general interests of all citizens. Here in Montgomery County we've got Isaiah Leggett (black) as County Exec, and I for one am delighted, 'cause he's proven during his time on the county council that he's a damned fine, hard-working, smart person. For once the citizens of the county used their heads & picked the best for the job, & he's it by a mile. I'm white, but I have no doubt he'll do his best for me as well as everybody else. If by chance he knows of special needs of the black community, then that's fine with me, too. I trust him to address those needs without abusing or neglecting the rest of us. Jsut because he's black doesn't mean blacks are the only ones going to be getting attention or support in the county anymore, & frankly to think that way is really psychotic. I feel the same way about any other public office, from Governor to President. I don't care if they're black, white, asian, First Nations, or hispanic; if they can demonstrate via their previous office tenures that they were responsible, intelligent leaders, I'm for them. A good mother/father is capable of looking after all her/his kids without favoritism, yet addressing the needs of each; so it is with a good leader.

Frankly, I've had it with white, Yalie Skull & Bones, old-boy-power network males. That group has more than demonstrated in the past several decades that thay have no interest in the general welfare of the people, because they don't identify with or come from the people. We're just offal to them, the hoi polloi they don't even consider human & don't hesitate to send to Iraq to die just to gratify their egos or greed. The only groups they care about as they have proved over & over again, are their fellow uber-rich & corporations. I include those like Kerry & Kennedy as well as those like Frist & Bush. NO MORE RICH WHITE YALIE MALES! Let's let some other group fuck up, for a change. They can't possibly be any worse than those that have gone before.

So called liberal, tolerant, progressives love to rant and rave about how racist conservatives and republicans are but it is actually the liberals who have kept blacks and other minorities on the plantation by keeping them dependent upon bullshit social welfare programs. Minorities have been voting for Democrats and their promises to solve all of the ills that effect the minority community and what has it got them? Liberals play to the the weakness in people. They seek to gain support by absolving their supporters of all personal . Nothing is ever the individuals fault. It is always the fault of others in society that you have not succeeded. It's racism, it's sexism, it's the old rich white guy patriarchy...... it's everything but your own personal decisions that have kept you from succeeding and we........the progressives understand it's not your fault and will come galloping in on our white horse with all kinds of government programs to save you.


It's bullshit and hell hath no fury like a progressive scorned when dealing with a minority who escaped the plantation and passed up on all that promise of a better life through big government. Take for example Condaleeza Rice and Colin Powell. Two very successful black people who have been called the worst racial slurs by the tolerant, progressive guardians of the left because they happen to be black and republican and didn't wean themselves on the liberal teat on their way to their success. It would seem that most liberals believe that being a certain race means that you have to possess a certain set of sociopolitical beliefs and that if you don't adhere to this preconceived notion then you should
be ridiculed and scorned with racial slurs justifiably because it is you who are the ignorant one. If that's not the epitome of racism I don't know what is.

Nancy,
I assume from your rant you agree with me?

I did say what you said in that it should not matter. The point about whites only for President was to show the absurdity of the argument (notice the question mark in the title).

I just hope that was clear, I don't care what color the candidate is (or what sex for that matter) so long as that person does a good job. I do take issue with those who think that the color of a candidate is important to the issue as does the lawyer in the article.

I think that is what I got out of what you wrote but wanted to make sure it was clear.

BD

It wasn't at first, but after a closer read & your last statement it was, & I do. Sorry.

BTW, that wasn't a rant; you haven't seen my rants if you think THAT was a rant-! ;)

I do have to say I think people SHOULD have to pass some kind of basic intelligence test showing that they at least have a modicum of common sense & aren't total fools or ignoramuses - but not necessarily educated. I know quite a few PhDs who are the stupidest people in creation that I wouldn't trust with a burnt-out match, & certainly not to vote. I admit however, I have no idea what criteria I'd use or who I'd trust to administer it fairly.

Thanks Nancy, I was worried there for a minute that we might disagree! LOL

True, education does not equal common sense. Common sense is not that common and there are many really smart people who couldn't pour water out of a vase if the directions were written on the bottom.

You hit the key part when you said who would be trusted to administer it and what criteria they would use. It would be rife with corruption and attempts to mold the electorate (by all sides).

I'm waiting to judge O'Malley. I had my reasons for not voting for Erlich that had nothing to do with his party. Frankly, I hope O'Malley has enough smarts to invite Steele into his government: that's another tres smart, hard-working guy I'd like to see stay around in public service, regardless of party affiliation.

I find that, altho I'm of an older generation, I seldom consider anyone's race. It wasn't an issue where I grew up so it never came up in grownups' conversations and/or evaluations & it always causes mild surprise even now when I do hear it, because really it's such a non-sequitur: what does anyone's color have to do with anything? I know whites who love chitlins & blacks who wouldn't touch 'em. There are NO parameters of race that define who someone is. The most red-necky looking person I know loves classical music & is incredibly sophisticated (he used to be a banker & then an art dealer), but everyone talks to him as if he just came out of the mountains (to his vast amusement, since he was born & edumacated in Boston) because he's got long hair & beard, drives an old pickup complete w/gun rack & fish stickers (no confederate flag, tho) and dresses like his last name might be "Yokum". My asian neighbor was born in London, grew up in Athens & Italy, & speaks fluent French, Italian, English (plummy accent & all) & only some broken Mandarin, altho his name & face are very Chinese. By preference he's more Italian than anything else, despite his looks or heritage.

You'd have thought by now we'd all have learned not to judge by looks or that stereotypes would have died. I know some dumb, lazy asians & jews, I know lots of hard-working, sharp-minded rednecks, quite a few First Nations people who don't drink, Hispanics who aren't illegals, women who aren't emotional, & men who aren't sexist pigs. I know fat people who aren't greedy slobs & thin, beautiful people who aren't self-absorbed assholes. Everyone should have a chance to prove themselves before we pass judgement.

Of course, once they've done enough to have left a record, THEN we can judge, & will.

I think Obama would be a good Prez, as I said, BECAUSE he's not part of the old-boy upper-class very rich white male cohort - which HAVE individually & together left some pretty sorry concrete records of their performance & mindsets. I'm ready to let someone else from another group take a turn at messing up - nor not.

It's reckless to throw around voter qualification tests as some sort of real-world, practical solution - to a non-existent problem. Who would write those tests, what would be on them, and how do you reconcile this idea with democracy?

Since this proposal is made in an article that comes at least within a hair's width of race-baiting, despite your denials, and since the Jim Crow South had voter tests specifically designed to keep blacks from voting, it's a pretty ugly, thoughtless way to conclude your argument.

If you read the above comments, you'd see that we admitted as much & also that we wouldn't trust even ourselves to be deciders.

I find your "he's not part of the good ole white boy network" argument to be unconvincing Nancy.

First of all we're not allowed to profile Muslims and lump them all together as having the same motivations and goals but we can do this for rich white males? Why not take aech candidate as an individual and evaluate their potential and merit Nancy?

Second.......Obama's great vision is a liberal vision. I have researched his short tenure in the Senate and his votes do not represent my values.

Here are just a few items on Obama's record:


He voted yes to provide social security benefits to ILLEGAL ALIENS

He voted against Alito and Roberts nominations to the supreme court

He is pro union and has been quoted as saying tax cuts are only for the rich

Voted against bannning lawsuits against gun manufacturers

Voted yes to ban drilling in anwar

He is pro-abortion

Has made comments that could be considered as hostile to people of faith

Voted no against reducing federal spending by 40billion the bill number is S1932

Obama seems like a typical run of the mill liberal to me. This is the man with the great vision I am supposed to get so excited about?

Give me a friggin break.

Well, if he doesn't represent your values, then don't vote for him; but he's certainly got a right to run, and for some of us, he has the same values, more or less. And again, I like that he's an outsider, which is what most people drawn to him seem to feel as well. He's NOT part of the born-with-a-silver-spoon, overprivileged, prep school set.

wow. obama for president! i had no idea... he's got quite a record.

big dog... remember, every president HAS been white. and in predominately white areas, white people get chosen as representatives. it's not like white people don't do the same thing, ("a black/white person could better represent the interests of this black/white community,") they just don't say it. they don't talk about it, they just know that they are doing it.

and if black people in baltimore are trained to vote (D), then white people in the south are trained to vote (R).

it's all the same. you haven't really made much of a point, other than to point out that some black guy said, "let's vote for another black guy." not much there.

Zing,
I think you miss the point. The overt racism in the statement. A statement that would not be tolerated if a white guy had said it. you can say people all think this or that but until it is said...

The guy made a statement that is racist and people will not call him on it because he is a black guy. Ross Perot got beat up for saying you people and there are many other examples of the same thing happening to other white guys because they are insensitive. Fact is, I don't care who runs or who is supported by whom but this statement is wrong and highlights the double standard. Hell, the Jim Crow reference in #12 shows (in addition to the writer lacks comprehension skills) that because I am a white guy saying this someone believes I am racist (far from it) and all I did was point out someone else's racism.

I could tell the south was trained to vote R. Perhaps that is because the South is in the Bible belt and Southerners think the Republican party better espouses the Christian values they hold (not that they necessarily do but they do so more than Democrats).

I'm stunned that no one has pointed out how incredibly racist this article is.

And I don't follow baltimore politics much, but I do know that curtis schmoke was black and enormously successful as a reforming mayor. Without him baltimore would be evem more of an urban warzone than it is now.

The common sense part of me agrees with Big Dog and Nancy.

On the other hand you cannot imagine how much I would love to see Obama, Condoleeza Rice, or Colin Powell go further in national politics.

I don't have high hopes for Obama but it would be great to have an articulate president for a change.

Baltimore did great under Kurt Schmoke, if you consider high crime and failing schools to be success. The highest number of murders recorded in the City were on his watch.

It was not his fault. No one person can fix the problems there (regardless of that person's color). It will take a concerted effort of all the leaders in order to change the culture.

Thank you, Maurice! chalk up yet another reason to vote for Obama - besides that he's cute as well as smart & personable & NOT part of the rich yalies junta

Count me in - the "voter test" is a great idea. We need to remove those voters who lean towards the feel-good liberal creeping socialism that sells these days.
Oh, and voting for Obama because he's cute and personable? You're out.

Dog, you should pay a visit to Chicago some time. Candidates run on their ethnicity all the time. It reinforces the underlying corruption. It's not just a coincidence that the allocation of political power among the Chicago ethnicities parallels the historic splits in Chicago organized crime.

Big Dog

What you don't understand is that Whites don't say WHITE. Even in the news, when they mean a WHITE man, they say a man. That's how people of color know that they are referring to a WHITE man.

The chances of a white man making such a statement is nearly impossible. Why would he?? We KNOW that the candidate is WHITE already. Race would be mentioned if they wanted to introduce diversity, THEN a memo about a Black or Hispanic or "diversity" would go out.

You are making an issue that is sort of backwards. The problem in this country is that WHITENESS is assumed.

Wake up and understand your world and stop whinning about NOTHING!!!

Zedd,
nice of you to crawl in. No whining involved. The fact is the lawyer did not say or a man might get elected he said A WHITE might get elected. If it is understood why did he say it? Then why did he say it might not be necessarily bad for a WHITE to get elected instead of a man because we all know that.

The police do not describe suspects as a man or a black man they call them a white men or a black men.

It is obvious some folks don't have the ability to see what fairness is or that a double standard exists. Too many years of liberal indoctrination.

Tell me that if it were reversed there would not be an outcry. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be protesting all over the place demanding reparations.

Big Dog sed: I think you miss the point. The overt racism in the statement. A statement that would not be tolerated if a white guy had said it. you can say people all think this or that but until it is said

I dont think you understand what RACISM is.

Blacks are an ethic group. White is not an ethnic group. If a Republican Irish person sent out that same memo saying that the Irish community should rally to get an Irish person into office, no one would care. Actually everyone would understand.

Well that is what the memo said. The issue was not about race it was about culture. Its clear that the writer was refering to an insight that a Black would have. Insight has nothing to do with biology ("race"). It has to do with culture.

Your argument reveals a lack of understanding of what race means in the US.

You basically want to dump everyone in the same pile and do a tit for tat. ITS NOT THE SAME. The rules are not the same, because of history. Sorry.

Maurice:

I am curious what it is that you agree with Big Dog and Nancy about.

Just curious.

"I imagine a bunch of non-human primates could be trained to vote in a similar fashion"

.....and who exactly are your referring to with this comment?

"The reality of the situation is that people in Baltimore City have been trained to vote for the person with the D next to his name."

Do you mean vote for da' brover?

You are so racist you don't even recognize racism when you see it. Even your name "Big Dog" implies a racist overtone.

There are no white republicans running for mayor because there are no white republicans living in Baltimore.

Ever think of that?

Whoof whoof!

Maurice,

I would LOVE to see Condoleeza Rice as president!

Obama's got a few too many lefty ideas for me, but I think Rice is great. I wish she'd run.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see a Rice-Obama race?

That would present two very distinct points of view to the voters.

Big Dog

The memo was written to Blacks by a Black. We do use the word WHITE to describe a White person. Its White society that doesn't.

As for the police, I don't listen to police reports or communications. You do??? You are missing the point. In public discourse, Whiteness by Whites is assumed. A person's race is discussed only if they are not White.

When addressing the general public, WHITE is assumed. Your article highlights a deficiency on your part. You don't notice that this happens because you also assume WHITENESS. :o) It naive.

I know you wish that there was a double standard but there really is NONE.

The problem is that Whites are disproportionately represented in the political system.

You REALLY are whining over nothing. Perhaps you are wishing for something discriminatory to happen so that the cloud that hangs over this country because of our racist tradition would go away.

I imagine if the Irish guy said let us support the Irish candidate or the black guy or some Asian, or some Hispanic would win there would be a problem.

Look up ethnicity and race (use a thesaurus if necessary) they are the same.

Black is a race, white is a race and there are ethnic divisions among them. The history of the country is not an excuse for what takes place.

I guess you might be one of those who believes that a black person (or any minority) can not be racist. You would be wrong. Racism is racial prejudice or discrimination.

Clavos

I agree with you!!!

Oh my goodness I am so thrilled!!

I think you would see an intelligent debate for a change. Put Bill Richardson in the mix and the country wins.

Above them all Powell (my secret crush shhhh!) would be most ideal. But he wont run for reasons that he only knows.

Big Dog

The area that you are attempting to educate me in is my field of study.

White is not an ethnicity. There are a variety of White ethnic groups. Jews are an ethnic group. The Irish are an ethnic group......

The Irish guy wouldn't say that. He would say "or else a non Irish would win".

The reason the Black man said that is because White men win (Irish, Jewish, Polish, WASPS, Slavic, Scottish, German, Italian, French, and a mixture of all of them).

Because of our VERY REAL history, Whites have not been sensitive to Black's issues. Not the converse. It's a fact.

You claiming a double standard is ridiculous. You want everyone to pretend that we don't exist in our reality that we live in a completely different world with a different history where everything is the same. It's not goober.

You don't solve a problem in your home by applying the solutions that work for your neighbor. That is foolish right. You look at your REAL situation and formulate solutions based on the challenges that face you.

I am not impressed by your claim to a field of study. Even a goober knows that the field is less important than what they actually teach you in it. You can even teach kids revisionist history if you try hard enough.

The fact is it should not be said by anyone. Excusing behavior and allowing a double standard causes resentment and fosters an environment of us against them, one I prefer not to live in.

I will not debate the definitions of race vs. ethnicity, I can read a dictionary and have a rudimentary knowledge, even as a goober. You have to have at least that to have a degree in medicine.

Whether I use the same solutions as my neighbor depends upon whether his worked or not. One thing is for sure, you do not keep trying things that have failed and reverse racism and inflammatory remarks do not work.

Goooolllllyyyyeeeeee Andy, you spose Aint Bee has some cherry pie for us?

Hey Marty,
As is usual, you left out part of the facts. Which part of any animal with opposable digits did you miss.

[Edited]

Zedd, wow, that's some of the craziest stuff I've ever read. OK, maybe Martin is nuttier, but still.

I would never assume whiteness. It wouldn't occur to me to do so. It sure wouldn't occur to a Baltimore pol. I know for a fact that police label whites "caucasian". I also know that whites have been sensitive to "black issues". They died by the thousands in the Civil War, and fought to integrate society ever since.

And the odd thing is, you don't seem to understand ethnicity. There's a whole wave of different black ethnicities hitting the US, and the color-obsessed aren't going to know what hit them. The descendent of Virginia slaves is from a very different culture than the Kenyan immigrant or the Cuban refugee.

Oh, how is "big dog" racist?

I've been convinced for years that you own property and pay taxes before you can vote. As the number of voters who live off government largess grows, those of us who actually make this country work will grow less and less able to keep it going.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years."

- Attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler, Lord Woodhouselee

"I've been convinced for years that you own property and pay taxes before you can vote. As the number of voters who live off government largess grows, those of us who actually make this country work will grow less and less able to keep it going."

I think you have the right idea. I do believe we will, or must, find a balance. Europe is going through some of these issues ahead of us so we should be paying attention to how they fare. Countries lurch too far left, if they don't have a hoard of natural resources to sell off and pay for the imbalance, they lurch back to the right where the less capable start complaining and take us back left and the cycle repeats. Technology and productivity improvements allow more stuff with less effort The more productive and efficient the system, the more unproductive people can be supported through wealth redistribution hence the continual slow drift towards socialism.

Baronius

If you are interested in having a REAL dialogue, we will do that. If you want to parse and pick really silly points just to have something to say, you may want to engage someone else.

As a Black person who not an African American, I am well aware of the various subgroups within the Black umbrella, however, because the overwhelming majority of Black people in Baltimore MA are AA lets not be silly and parse.

Try to focus on the big picture and the point of the contribution.

Sociology is my discipline, don't bother to instruct me on what "ethnicity" means. I will render you impotent.

I wont argue with you about the assumption of race. Look at the news from now on. See if McCains Whiteness is ever discussed or anyone else' who is White. Don't fain ignorance to win a point. In the long run you actually loose more. Your credibility, intellect and respectability is put to question. Its not worth it. Unless you really are really daft, then in that case, I offer compassion to you.

Also, if you have not heard what I have stated before, you are not engaging that many people of color. I've said nothing unique or controversial. You have basically admitted to not knowing very much about race matters. I am not sure why you think that that is honorable or something to announce over the world wide web. Ignorance is ignorance. You don't know about this matter. Your not knowing about it doesn't make it garbage. It just makes you ignorant. Nothing to be proud of Bud.

Next time, instead of jumping into attack mode, ask questions.

The Socratic method is a tried and true method.

Big Dog sed:The fact is it should not be said by anyone

NOPE. Sorry. Blacks can discuss Black issues among themselves any time they want to. Like Irish can and Jews can.

Also, UNDERSTAND, just because Whites have enslaved and discriminated against, well every race in this country, doesn't mean that EVERYONE needs to walk on tip toes; that everyone should feel guilty.

SORRY, no bud. This isn't a Black issue nor is it a Black problem. Stop trying to include everyone into it.

Its like telling all fathers not to hug their daughters and put them to bed, because child molesters cant do it. RIDICULOUS. Blacks don't have the SICK history. We don't have the guilt and we don't interact with the malice that is historical like Whites. Sorry. WE DON'T. I know you want us to SHARE in the guilt and sin. But we can't. No apologies needed or caution needed. We don't have to, just like the father who hugs his daughter. That molester can complain all day but that is HIS problem.

Well, that is YOUR problem.

Zedd, I've heard such statements before, but that doesn't make them right. If I wanted to nitpick, I'd be asking you about Baltimore, Massachusetts.

As for my ignorance, I must quote Homer Simpson: just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. Your color doesn't interest me, nor does McCain's. What interests me is that you seem willing to judge people based on their race/ethnicity.

"Jesse Jackson gets away with saying racist things because he is black. A white guy gets skewered."

So true.

Zedd #27

I agree with Big Dog on this point:

"The fact is, we are all Americans and from all I can see, regardless of color, families want the same things. We all want to be safe, have good jobs and good schools. There should be no pandering to any particular group for the things that all groups want."

I agree with Nancy on this point:
What malarkey! As if race matters when looking out for the general interests of all citizens. Here in Montgomery County we've got Isaiah Leggett (black) as County Exec, and I for one am delighted, 'cause he's proven during his time on the county council that he's a damned fine, hard-working, smart person. For once the citizens of the county used their heads & picked the best for the job..."

In the words of gonzo - quoted for truth.

Ron Goodwyne: I've been convinced for years that you own property and pay taxes before you can vote. As the number of voters who live off government largess grows, those of us who actually make this country work will grow less and less able to keep it going.

Did you really think about this?

Are your saying that those who choose to own property automatically attain the intellecutal capacity to chose the best leaders for our nation?

or

Are you saying that ones economic status should be the qualifier for them to paticipate in a democracy. For instance if you go bankrupt, and loose your property, you loose your right to vote? If you retire to a retirement home, you loose your right to vote? If your spouce dies and you have to move and lease a home, you loose the right to vote?

Maurice:

Thanks for indulging me. I agree as well.

"I'm stunned that no one has pointed out how incredibly racist this article is."

Maybe no one has pointed it out because it clearly isn't?

This is an article OPPOSING racism, for Gawd's sake! Only a 1984-style leftist (WAR IS PEACE! SLAVERY IS FREEDOM!) could claim anti-racism is racism...

RJ Elliott:

I am not a Jesse Jackson at all.....

I am curious though, what racist statements did Jesse Jackson make, and not get any flack for???

I can't wait for your response. :o)

"Blacks are an ethic group. White is not an ethnic group."

No. Blacks are a race. Whites are a race. Irish (a "tribe" in Europe) is a sub-group of Whites. Zulu (a "tribe" in Africa) is a sub-group of Blacks.

If some Blacks demand that a Black person become Mayor of a mostly-Black city, that is RACISM. If some Whites demand that a White person become President of a mostly-White country, that is RACISM.

And THAT is equality.

Zedd,
I have no guilt I did not own anyone and a lot of good white people died to end slavery, though the civil war was not about slavery itself.

Blacks should have guilt, they sold other blacks in Africa. I do not have guilt and I do not give a shit whether you or anyone else likes it I am going to tell it like it is.

This bastard made a racist remark and the fact he is black does not excuse it.

You really should stop living in the past and asking everyone to pay for something they had nothing to do with. I do not owe you or any other minority any damned thing and it will be a cold day in hell before I give anything as a reparation for something I did not do.

You earn your way just like I did with no special favors. You want to be a man and be treated like one then act like one and quit whimpering like a hurt puppy.

"and who exactly are your referring to with this comment?"

Lemurs?

"Even your name "Big Dog" implies a racist overtone."

How so? Are large canines racial supremacists or something?

"There are no white republicans running for mayor because there are no white republicans living in Baltimore."

That's factually untrue.

Well now, it seems to me that Jesse referred to a New York town as Hymie town. Now that is a knock on the Jews. Or is it OK because black folk do not have a history and have no guilt?

Just want to know.

RJ: Are large canines racial supremacists or something?

I'm pretty sure that the Redbone Coonhound and the Whippet are both racial supremacists. That's what I heard, anyway.

Big Dog

It looks like you've put a lot of thought into this.

However, the point is, IN THIS COUNTRY Whites have the history of discrimination. Your whiny tantrum is misplaced. Your article has no teeth and is baseless. You see the world Black and go nuts.

These were Black men talking to Black men about an issue which concerns Black Americans. Like Irish talking to Irish or Jews talk to Jews. How you get all bent out of shape about this is confusing to me.

But know from now until eternity, Blacks don't have to walk on tip toes. They don't have the history.

You so desperately want to belittle the claims of racism that you want everyone to be called a racist so that the weight of the evil that it is, is weakened.

You didn't know that that is what you were doing but that really is your motive. SORRY we cant escape who we are as Americans, we can only improve and understand each other better.

I just realized why Zedd is so upset by the "racism" and "ignorance" of this article. It appears that Zedd is a racist, and so s/he's projecting...

Big Dog is in reference to a military thing you probably know nothing about.

I guess Big Dog could be racist since race baiting poverty pimps can find racism in everything. Not in a statement by a black guy but in a name like Big Dog, dolt.

Zedd:
See if McCains Whiteness is ever discussed or anyone else' who is White.

Stop complaining that it is because you are black every time something happens to you and maybe no one will make a big deal out of a person's blackness.

You see, it is a society of liberals that keeps blacks downtrodden so that they are actually amazed when they make something of themselves.

I, on the other hand, am never amazed when a black makes it. I am happy for them because everyone who applies themselves will succeed.

"if you go bankrupt, and loose your property, you loose your right to vote? If you retire to a retirement home, you loose your right to vote? If your spouce dies and you have to move and lease a home, you loose the right to vote?"

What about people who claim to be educated experts in sociology, but cannot spell "lose" correctly? Should they be allowed to vote?

"what racist statements did Jesse Jackson make"

Hymietown, anyone?

Or how about his support for "affirmative action" which is nothing more than government-mandated racial discrimination that benefits Black people at the expense of White people?

Zedd,
why don't you read before you spout off. This was discussed in a radio interview. The letter was sent but the issue was discussed on the public's airwaves.

I told you once and I will tell you again, I do not have any history and I do not owe any one anything. I never owned anyone and my family never owned anyone and neither did anyone who is alive today.

You will never convince me of any kind of guilt or other mindless prattle because I will not submit to this PC BS.

Big Dog sed: You really should stop living in the past and asking everyone to pay for something they had nothing to do with. I do not owe you or any other minority any damned thing and it will be a cold day in hell before I give anything as a reparation for something I did not do.

You earn your way just like I did with no special favors. You want to be a man and be treated like one then act like one and quit whimpering like a hurt puppy.

What on earth are you on about? Are you confusing the conversation that we've had with another one? Oh you are having one of those talk radio conversations. Sorry.... You are actually discussing with a person not making comments to people who think like you and agreeing on silly "points".

No, you don't owe me anything. Were we talking about that??? I thought we were talking about some Black attorneys having a dialogue about how to get a Black person into office.

Who do you think you are posting to a complete stranger, lecturing them on how to make it in their life. Pull yourself together. What part of your life's experience renders you qualified to impose yourself in such a way? You need to be thoroughly embarrassed. Not only are you emotional and way off topic, you were terribly presumptuous. My life's story would shame you.

The assumptions that you have, which you have revealed in just a short time say that you don't understand race matters at all.

Ask questions when you don't understand. You haven't, its clear.

I'm wrong, and I'll admit it. The truth is, the color of McCain's skin does trouble me. Isn't there supposed to be a lot of sun in Arizona?

Big Dog

You revealed your complex. Sorry. Again. Ask questions next time.

You have created an entire philosophy about Black people without actually talking to them or asking them questions. That is silly.

Are you ashamed??

Until the end of time racism is alive and well on planet earth. As long as we have the jesse jackass jacksons and al not so sharp sharptons vomiting out bullshit it's an endless program. Dr. Martin Luther King gave his life for a wonderful dream and look where were at now. Moving backwards. A test for voting. Not sure about that. Just keep it simple. Republicans vote on election day and democraps vote the day after. RJ#47. Right on dude. You always speak with wisdom. sr

Zedd,
you are a piece of work. It is you who was spouting off about sin and guilt and all the things that are wrong with whites.

Read some of your comments including #55 and tell me that you did not go off on a tangent. All this tripe about guilt and sin blah blah. You are the one who went off on a tangent and then tried to center it back on me as if I am delusional.

Zedd,
You silly silly man. I do not have to ask black people for my opinions and to recognize what is happening in the world. I am able to speak for myself.

I also have worked and spent my leisure time with many who do not espouse the views of this lawyer.

"Also, UNDERSTAND, just because Whites have enslaved and discriminated against, well every race in this country, doesn't mean that EVERYONE needs to walk on tip toes;"

And blacks have enslaved and discriminated against each other and continue to until this day. Your lame little racist tirades show how angry and empty your life must be. You have to come cry about you persecution at the hands of evil whitey all day long. Focus that energy on something productive and the world might not seem so bad. You remind me alot of an old poster named Mac Diva. Same bitter obsession with race and angry confronational posts. Interesting.

RedTard wrote: "Countries lurch too far left, if they don't have a hoard of natural resources to sell off and pay for the imbalance, they lurch back to the right where the less capable start complaining and take us back left and the cycle repeats."

It's called democracy Red, and to paraphrase, while I hardly ever agree with a word you say, I'd give my life for your right to express it.

Isn't that what we're all about? BTW, why would owning property give a person more right to vote than any other?

That isn't democracy. It's on the way back to the old feudal style of governance Merrie Olde England dispensed with in about 500 years ago.

Do we really want to go back there

BD:

zedd's a chick.

Sorry, Like I could recognize that on the web

Just an FYI.

RedTard

If you want to be affective, don't call a Black person "angry". (snicker) It's one of our inside jokes. It makes you seem really crazy, out of control and at a loss of what to say. We live with this stuff. No body is angry :o)

What you are REALLY saying is, if what you are asserting is true, you should be angry. NOPE, not. It's life.

The rest of your post, is just weird and too passionate. I think you are really bothered. I don't understand what energy you think it takes to post on a blog site but I am assuming it takes the same amount of energy it takes you to post. I am confused about your recommendation that I use the energy that I am expanding on this discussion on something else...... weird. I think you need to calm down.

However as strange as your words are, it is actually the most coherent that you have been.

Now pull yourself together and start thinking about what you are saying.

Thanks Clavos

I was going to reveal that but I thought I would ride on the fact that most people like the guys that are ranting on are scared of Black men. Chuckle..he he... They are probably feeling really powerful engaging a real Black guy like that :oD... Glorious!!

It was fun while it lasted.

Now may I offer a hug to all of you that are shaking with anger or fear.... comm'on HHHHHHUUUUUG! Better.

Hey .... What about me Zedd, I'm not even partly frightened. So, what? .. I miss out on the hug, do I?

BD I also have worked and spent my leisure time with many who do not espouse the views of this lawyer

Chuckle.....Thats what YOU think...

RJ Elliote Hymietown, anyone?

Did you say he didn't receive any flack for that??? How is it that YOU know about it? It was plastered everywhere and he had to apologise and explain that he didn't know that it was offensive. Its been 20 years and you still go on about it... He got flack for it. Sorry bad example.

Is uhmmm that uhhh all???... OKAY RJ... Well move on. We are sharing an embarrassing moment aren't we. Lets sing and pretend that its not happening... la la la... whewww awkward.

STM

You get a perpetual one.

Thanks Zedd :)

Thanks Zedd,

It was all good.

BD It is you who was spouting off about sin and guilt and all the things that are wrong with whites.

No I haven't. I am responding to your lame (sorry to say, I am embarrassed to admit this) article.

There are so many misconceptions about race and what the real issues are out there. Your submission highlighted some of those misconceptions.

The contributors to this thread added other misconceptions. I responded to those also.

I mean you knew with your title that you would get a response. You just thought that the response would be radical and accusatory. It wasn't. You are just applying the retort that you expected to make to something totally different.

The point was, Blacks can talk to Blacks about Black issues, strategies how to be best and reference Whites whenever they want to. That has nothing to do with racism at all. Like Jews can discuss how to get more Jews into office as opposed to more gentiles. No biggy. They should imo. Any ethnicity or interest group should and does that.

You are naive if you don't think that Republicans are not looking for Black candidates because they are Black. You really don't understand politics.

Zedd the question mark in the title should have helped.

Also, when a person is on the radio and in the newspaper he is talking to everyone. How do you think I heard about it? I certainly did not get one of the letters.

And it was you my friend who talked about white sin and guilt, but why quibble. I have no guilt (with regard to this issue) I suspect you feel the same.

Have a nice life.

Sorry guys, I'm relentless. I am walking away.

Unless someone wants to say something really dumb and nasty????...... Oh come on.....

Okay, its over....... darn it :o(

BD

It was fun. Catch you next time. We may be on the same side next time.

Sounds good Zedd,
I look forward to it.

"most people like the guys that are ranting on are scared of Black men."

Not so much. I order my Black subordinates around just like anyone else.

{snicker} It's one of our inside jokes. ;-)

Say something really dumb. Lord what a blessing. Just so happens I speak dumb. Just ask me a ? or 2.

"Did you say he didn't receive any flack for that???"

Well, he's still a "civil rights leader" right? I guess he didn't take ENOUGH flack for that...

"Jews can discuss how to get more Jews into office as opposed to more gentiles. No biggy."

Uh huh. Bigotry is no biggy...to you.

RJ Elliot

You over did it on the dumb thing. Its too dumb.

Sorry kid. Talk among yourself....

"Jews can discuss how to get more Jews into office as opposed to more gentiles. No biggy."

Once again, Zedd, the question of the day is:

What planet are you from? And what century?

OK, seriously now:

I'd say a rough analogy to race is sex right now. Will all women vote for Hilary Clinton, and will all who vote for Hilary be female? I think not. I don't see any "League of Women Voters" calling all women to vote for Hillary as a manner of solidarity with their sex.

This despite the fact that women lacked basic civil rights in this country til what--the turn of the 20th century? Women could be indentured servants to men then. Shouldn't we still be resentful and demand special dispensation? No.

We: have come far enough that most would consider Clinton a serious contender.

So yes, I'm a woman, and men may never fully understand what it is to be female. And I'll never know what it is to be male. But I can know enough to be able to interact and coexist. Same with any ethnic group. We can all learn from others and appreciate and respect their diversity, without clinging so closely to our own "tribe." In other words, vive la difference!

I think the greater national divide has to do with literacy and education levels, but that's another story.

Elvira,

That was well put! The best part is you stated it without interjecting tons of freshman level pop psychology 101, or a major dose of a persecution complex.

P.S. Don't vote for Hitlery. One Chavez is one too many.

I want an Indian to take the President's office. It will be fair as they represent indigenous population of America

Elvira

I think you took liberties last time you engaged me. Because I ignored your post, you thought that we have this thing. I was just rolling my eyes at your little comments. Listen I ignored your posts because I find your contributions really base. I don't want to be rude, but its like when your grandma is going on and on about something that has been solved technologically by 30 yrs but you don't have the heart to tell her so you let her.... I am sure in real life you are a pistol but when you post to me you come across as dense . We don't have a back and forth thing going on.

What planet are you from? And what century

While that comment is unffitingly rude, especially since we don't dialogue... You display naivety. Groups do this all of the time. It REALLY IS no biggy. All interest groups strategies. This matter has nothing to with the calendar or space travel. You are just unaware of what goes on. Perhaps if you expanded the breath of information that you are exposed to, you wouldn't be so vocal about simple things.

Arrived late to this thread, as usual.

Interesting thought, Zedd, that whites always assume the word "man" or "woman" always refers to a white. Subconsciously I suppose this is so. I remember when I first heard about Deval Patrick; when I found out he was black I was mildly surprised, because with a last name like "Patrick" I assumed he was Irish - & therefore white - he being from Boston & all, but it wasn't that big a deal (except he's got an even cuter smile than Obama does) what color he is, except for the usual positive thing about him being the first black gov. of Mass, etc. I was surprised to find out a few days ago that Gov. Richardson is Hispanic; I never bothered to think about it because it isn't important to me but I do suppose it proves your point about whites assuming everyone is white. I think it will be nice, however, when it doesn't matter what color anyone is.

I would certainly support a First Nations candidate for Prez if there were someone I felt was qualified. It rather surprises me there are literally almost none that I can name aside from former Sen Ben Campbell. It seems to me that's an even more burning lack than the paucity of blacks or women. Asians, too. What gives with this? I wonder why? Now I cast my mind on it, despite a large & thriving asian Indian population, in the last local elections no one of that group ran for any positions in county government: no asians, one hispanic, and one black. The rest were mainly middle-aged or elderly white males, with a couple of women thrown in for school board, but not for any of the other offices. This isn't right, but what to do about it? I'm not inclined to run myself just to give everyone else a woman to vote for (or against). I imagine if anyone feels strongly enough about it, they'll run, but it would be nice to see a more representative mix.

Ref: Elvira's posit of women voting for the woman because she is a woman, that's a real issue. I admit to being VERY partial to Obama, mainly because of what he's NOT; but I confess I do seriously think that I should support a fellow woman, even if I'm not enamored of her particularly, simply because she is a woman, and therefore will have to work 10 times as hard to get half as far as any man - including Obama.

As for those having conniptions about the notion of a voting test - the suggestion was NOT serious, IMO, so chill & get a grip.

Zedd:

You are the one who has been rude and insulting with anyone who disagrees with you. Roll your eyes all you want. Take liberties? WTF?

Ignoring me proves that you have nothing valid to say to counter my comments. Just as well, since interacting with you is a fruitless endeavor.

"If you want to be affective, don't call a Black person 'angry'. (snicker) It's one of our inside jokes."

Nice one. Gangs, violence, and murder must leave you rolling as well. I'm starting to get it now.

what a thread...thousands of words and racist statement after racist statement leading to the punch line -

*All interest groups strategies.*

it's like a bad joke

loboinok: Thanks!

Nancy:
I like to think I would vote for anyone I considered to be the best candidate, regardless of race or sex. I'm not at all sure about Hillary, for example. Obama seems cool, but from what I understand has relatively less political experience. In any case, the position of President is a little too important to be an affirmative action appointment. But you're right--I think the Old White Guys network has gotten mighty...well..old.

I'd love to see Guiliani run.

JFK seemed like a breath of fresh air and broke some barriers--young, Catholic (which was groundbreaking at the time), charming, and dynamic. He and RFK seemed to represent the younger more hopeful and idealistic generation of voters--but with the balls and decision making skills to do what had to be done. I'm kind of hoping for someone like that, and I have to say that Obama does have that kind of charisma. At this point, my cat would make a more popular and suitable prez than Bush any day. So really, whre can we go but up?

It would be hard to go lower, that's for sure. With Bush we've pretty much scraped the bottom of the barrel. I feel sorry for all the poor slobs who voted for him - some of them twice; he swindled them & made fools of them.

Nancy #101 Oh how true.

I agree with you as well on the Hillary comment. I will be elated when she wins because it means a lot of things... for my daughters, for our perception in the work place, for America internationally (we tout democracy and equality but our leadership says otherwise). I would feel proud as a woman, I would feel proud as an American.

I thought about this thread while driving my kids to school and thought, what this dialogue and article highlights is our discomfort and lack of understanding regarding this matter. Any comment could render the comment "racist" or "bigot". We fear this topic... I don't get it, thus the horrible misconceptions.

I think it is good to bring up our concerns like the author did so that our fears can be alleviated and our misconceptions can be cleared up.

I appreciate your relaxed approach towards this topic. So many people are really tense and forget to put themselves in the same position.
You've been a breath of fresh air. I haven't encountered such self assuredness in ages. Thank you.

Elvira
I'd say a rough analogy to race is sex right now. Will all women vote for Hilary Clinton, and will all who vote for Hilary be female? I think not. I don't see any "League of Women Voters" calling all women to vote for Hillary as a manner of solidarity with their sex.

The point of the article wasn't about all blacks voting for a black candidate. It was potential black candidates not running so that they don't divide the black vote. That is just basic strategy.

If Pelosi, Clinton, and Hutchison all ran, the female vote would be more divided. Again I know that this is shocking to you but that is how things REALLY work. Yes gender is not the only reason that people would vote for these candidates, no one said it would be, but it would be a factor. If all things being equal, many people would vote for the person that they had something in common with. Women will understand child care issues better for example....

Well its the same with race or whatever element. No one votes for a person based on just one characteristic, but that one element can tip the scale.

RedTard

You are really good. I am in awe of you. You are really deep into character. I am pretty imaginative but wow!!

I hope you are a writer because I am sure that the stuff that would come out of that brain would be amazing.

Thanks for the challenge and enlightenment.

I loved how Pelosi had all of her grans present when she was sworn in. That was HUGE to me. It said a lot about how she sees her role. It said the position wasn't just about her and a personal coup or milestone, it was about what it gives her grand children, what it means for our future. I think that said something about gender differences. These elements of difference matter and they are good for us. We grow and expand from being exposed to a different world view. Lets not fear it. Take it in, learn from the variety and make your stint on this planet worthwhile.

Elvira writes:

I think the greater national divide has to do with literacy and education levels...

Quoted for Truth. (With thanx to gonzo marx)

Interestingly, this article came out today. Notice the title and then tell me again how this is any different than a whites only lunch counter or bathroom.

No Whites Allowed

I just tried to make a comment after reading the article referenced & it keeps telling me "banned word" - but won't say which one, which puzzles me because I didn't have any of the usual suspects in my statement.

Anyway, the MSM should certainly be making an issue of this, as should every other congressperson with or without minority constituents.

I did not ask them to ban the word "Nancy"! :)

The thought police are after you.

Wow, over 100 comments on this. People must be bored.....

*snort* If so, they won't find much, lol ....

Zedd:

You said: The point of the article wasn't about all blacks voting for a black candidate. It was potential black candidates not running so that they don't divide the black vote. That is just basic strategy.

Was it? I'll have to reread it, but other discussions are certainly permissible.

You said:
If Pelosi, Clinton, and Hutchison all ran, the female vote would be more divided. Again I know that this is shocking to you but that is how things REALLY work.

If you lost the sarcasm and condescension it might help. I majored in psych and soc in undergrad school and I don't think that makes me some sort of almighty expert.

Nancy: when you get a banned word message there's normally a number and if you email me and tell me what that number is, I can tell you what word it represents.

Oh. I didn't notice; I was too busy trying to figure out how to get it to quit.

elvira, sarcasm or not, zedd's got you on this one. in the context of the article, this is a total non-issue. it's just some whitey getting all p.c.ed up on some bullshit and shootin his damn mouth off.

ahem. i hate white people.

nah. not really. i just don't like people.

some are okay.

I'm with you Zing: individuals are great; it's the species as a whole that sucks, most of the time.

Zedd,

Big Dog is called that because he likes to toss digital, raw, red meat into a roomful of hungry animals.

It's called "bait" -- and you took it.

Oh, and yer pissin' in the wind with your "debate" -- that's why my only response is to mock these people.

PS: You remind me of "bob a. booey" -- who used to have didactic, intellectual bouts with the motards hereabouts. His IQ was about twice that of those he "debated" -- but he was worn down like a soft fontanelle relentlessly pounded by the Colorado River.

Stop it.

That is all.

: /

BTW: just my opinion, but the threads around here are starting to suck much more than usual.

And I notice that of all the IRAQ apologists, (Nalle, RJ Elliot, Retard, Barger, Arch Conservative) et al -- NOT ONE FUCKING WORD HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT IT RECENTLY.

Wonder why that is?

Zedd - "I was going to reveal that but I thought I would ride on the fact that most people like the guys that are ranting on are scared of Black men. Chuckle..he he... They are probably feeling really powerful engaging a real Black guy like that."

That's pathetic. In saying that, you project your uninformed biases on a group of people based on their skin color.

Seriously, why would I or anyone be afraid of black men, and get off on a posting board exchange with one? How empty must you think I am? How empty must you be to think of people in that way?

The point is, I don't care that you're a woman. I don't care that you're black. I care that you're a racist. It doesn't matter what color the skin is, if there's a Klan robe over it.

What makes you say I'm an Iraq apologist Shark? is it the fact that I don't compare Bush to Hitler and rave and rant about the "imperialist occupying American government" in my posts?

Why don't you go back in the BC archives and pull some quotes to post to show what an Iraq apologist I am. Without the evidence you sound like nothing more than an arrogant left wing moonbat.

Arch, please stick to the subject. This is not about Bush.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

re: "arrogant left wing moonbat" ---

Oh my! Dots on a screen in the form of a personal insult! Where's Schannon and Chris Rose when ya need a word-nanny, um... I mean "CENSOR".

#114
it's just some whitey getting all p.c.ed up on some bullshit and shootin his damn mouth off

Only thing worse than that is some darkie acting like the world owes him something. I guess the way i said it makes it appear racist?

I don't know about anyone else but I am not afraid of anyone black, white or otherwise.

I apologize for the fact that George Bush is sending 21,500 troops to Iraq. He should be sending 215,000 instead.

woo, man. i can get away with saying whitey. it's a funny little word coming out of my mouth.

i didn't say you were racist... did i? nope. not until the "darkie" comment of yours did i ever think you really were. not sure if you are now. but, it certainly has become a possibility.

"I guess the way i said it makes it appear racist?"

mmm.

anyway, you really are over-reacting here. there's no reason to get all uppity about people looking after their own interests. if black people in baltimore want to field a strong black candidate, it's probably best to field only one.

it's like what nader does to the dems every time. he goes out there and gets 2 or 3 percent of the vote, a majority of which would go to the dems. of course the dems don't want him to run, he's splitting the vote.

that is ALL that is going on here. so calm down.

and don't make "darkie" comments if you don't want to be seen as a racist. that's fucking nasty.

as for your 215,000 troops idea, why don't you go? they'll need every REAL man they can get... so go sign up if you're a REAL man. really.

Coupla points:

1) there is a type of right-wing propagandist who spends their time trying to find examples of [gasp!] blacks who are racist; they LOVE to bring this up -- as if it somehow balances the racism picture, ie. slavery, the history of oppression of minorities, and discrimination of all kinds -- or negates the huge amount of racist discrimination most American blacks have to face. It's a whiney, pathetic act of misdirection. (on Blogcritics, see The King: Al Barger, Big Dog, "Dan" ET AL)

2) In any discussion of race, some yahoo will inevitably bring up "Hymie-Town" and Jesse Jackson as some humongous "gotcha!" (see #1, sophistic sleight-of-hand, or RJ Elliot, etc.)

3) We're all racists. It's a matter of controlling and/or overcoming it.

4) I'm bored out of my mind.

Big Dog says "darkie" ???!

Whoa.

End of debate!

===

Gotta run! I have to bathe!

yeah, ain't it great? jeez, big dog... if you're going to do that kind of thing, you had better be an editor so you can delete and deny.

Zing, the point of the post is completely summed up in your comment.

You can get away with saying whitey (get away with indicates something that is wrong but over looked. No one gets away with stuff that is OK to do)

I said darkie in response to your use of the word whitey just to see what the response was and as expected, it is deemed as wrong but not one person shared the same comments about it as they did the darkie remark.

What is the difference between the two? None, but the whole issue only strengthens the point of the post.

One last thing Zing, I served for 24 years and am retired from the Army. I have never missed going where they sent me and I would go to Iraq or anywhere else they wanted me to go if they called me out of retirement. So that should answer your real man question and put an end to your condescending tone. You will not find a chickenhawk or a coward in my family (or a moonbat either).

Shark,
I expect that if people are holding me to a standard then all others will be held to that standard. There is racism all over but it is never recognized or castigated when it is a non-white.

I point out the items that are going on and are wrong. The history of this country does not justify reverse discrimination. Like I said before, I don't owe anybody anything. I never owned anyone and have no desire to.

If you want to keep bringing up the history of slavery and racism in America trace it to the roots and realize that, while slavery was disgusting, it was blacks in Africa who sold those slaves and descendants of the people there STILL own slaves. Yep, blacks owning blacks. It was a bunch of white guys who fought in a war that ended up freeing slaves so if we are going to look at history and blame today's people for slavery let's also give them credit for freeing them.

BD has a point; it's no more acceptable for someone to say "whitey" or "honkey" than it is to say "darkie" ... altho the last time I heard that one was Gone With The Wind.

I had said earlier that exclusionary groups were inappropriate no matter who the excluder is, but then I got to thinking about the Amerinds & native Hawaiians, and there is much to be said for special-interest groups in & out of government to look after the interests of such parties (altho god knows the Dept of the Interior hasn't done a decent job, ever). If there weren't special committees for them, they would get lost in the shuffle & general melee of everyone grabbing for limited resources; as it is, they've been even more screwed than blacks have been, IMO.

So, I don't know. It still seems wrong to have a group in congress that excludes anybody on the basis of race, be they darkies or whiteys.

Or chickenhawks or left-wing moonbats

the point of your post is obvious, but it is weak. it is well within their rights to field a strong black candidate in an election. it is right to strategize about it, if that is what they want to do. the advice given was good advice.

yes, it would seem strange if it came from a white person. it would. that's the truth. would you assume it to be racist in intent? maybe you would. maybe black people would. it's very possible. still, that wouldn't make it racist. if the area was predominantly, say, good ol boys (let's set the scene in alabama), then good ol boys would want good ol boys representing them. if 100 good ol boys wanted to run for office, then that one lone liberal would win. so the good ol boys would talk up southern values, trucker hats and chiggers. yeah?

do you see my point?

everybody does it. you just got pissed because it was a black person. the chinese do it. the mexicans do it. the irish do it. the catholics do it. the homosexuals. the heterosexuals. the gun clubs. the parkinsons crowd. every special interest, be it racial, sexual or social, does it.

so get over it.

also, you and i both know that me saying whitey in no way allows you to counter with "darkie." that's just ignorant. if i wasn't white, and i was spitting "whitey" in your face, i guess you would have some claim. but here, nuh-uh.

so if you aren't racist, you should make that point very, very clear.

Zing,
you might have a point. I thought it was stated that you were black. If that is not the case than what i said makes no sense, though it is no reason to use derogatory terms. If this is the case then i apologize for the error and retract the point.

As for the group thing. Everyone keeps saying a group of whites get together and say let's run and that is what was done. If the group of good ole boys in Alabama got together and said let's run this guy so a black does not win, then it would be the same issue. it would also be just as wrong.

you can dismiss it, but you are missing the point entirely by leaving out that one caveat.

Wrong Big Dog.....

As was pointed out earlier......a group of good ol boys wouldn't have to say anything....they are already a majority, so they wouldn't even have to stratergize to this level. All thez gots to do is show up, spit a little tabackey and thez gets the vote.

big dog--show me a link to this lawyer's original wording. did he say "so a white person won't win," or did he say "so a black person WILL win?"

if he said the former, there is certainly a negative, anti-white slant to his wording. still, i wonder why he would worry about the white man exclusively, when there are plenty of other groups out there as well.

also... while i accept your apology (in that you are sorry for using the word), the fact that i'm NOT black shouldn't be your reason for issuing said apology. you brush it off as retaliation... which might explain things on some level, but it doesn't make it any better.

The term majority community is used and then white in the interview. it is ridiculous because the whites in Baltimore are the minority community.

As for the remark, you make a mistake, I do not aplogize for saying it, only to saying it after making a mistake bout your color. While i do not care about color, the item was used to show the absurdity of the argument. I have nothing to be ashamed of for using the word, free speech goes both ways whether it is insensitive or not.

I merely apologize because my point is not made if the first part of the situation is changed.

he purposefully does not use the word "white" in reference to any individual. but it is strange that he uses the word "majority" when that is not the case. maybe that's why it is in quotes. who knows. he uses the term "white establishment," but he really couldn't say it any other way and still make his point, could he?

as for your apology/non-apology... make up your mind. either you are sorry you used a derogatory term maliciously, or you are not. and you did use it maliciously, even if it was serving to make a point.

Baronius


FOCUS

I said people are afraid. I didn't say they should be afraid.

Why are you addressing me with the question and accusing me of anything. I was making fun of the notion which exists. Don't get mad at me..

SHARK

I had to respond to this. This is the real stuff that is said and is believed. It needed to be addressed because these beliefs are held by millions and they are based on nothing. Just a lack of thinking or understanding.

I am not bothered by the use of the N word. That is not real, it means nothing.... It has no real definition and it doesn't stop me from progressing. Its just stupid.

However, it is views like this that really fuel the real racism against Blacks. The fantasy that we are getting a free ride, when nothing in society shows that, economically or otherwise, is one of the real things that impede our progress. If we feel like a group of people get off scott free when everyone was working hard, would we hire them, all things being equal....? Would we even give them a break or forgive them easily. In the legal system, would we be compassionate, NO you wouldn't. You would want them to get what they deserve.... ha ha.... That is our reality. Who cares about the N word compared to that.

Shark

By the way, I am not getting worn out. Perhaps if there were three of you apposing my views I would be spent, but REALLY SHARK..... I haven't encountered a real argument yet, just talk radio fantasies.

I'm enjoying illuminating the ignorance. Its like a hobby. I am on my bed working and peeking in for a chuckle. I've got this devious smile on my face and rubbing my feet together in glee. Its glorious!!

If I had to manage you, because you are so smart and quite clever, I would indeed be worn out. However I would have to see your point and I would end up enjoying your contribution either way.

Love is in the air...is it Valentine's Day already?

"I merely apologize because my point is not made if the first part of the situation is changed."

Big Slog:

You are the worst kind of racist there is....one that doesn't even know he is.

I do not apologize for calling you a nigga I apologize for calling you when you aren't one.

You suck man

Elvira

Do you mean between Baronious and I???.....Maybe

Zedd - Focus. I didn't say "should be afraid" either. So let me say this again: why do you think that a non-black person would be afraid of a black man?

Try this: put a scrawny, 44-year-old black accountant on a city bus. Then, the equivalent white. Put a tattooed 22-year-old wearing the standard urban uniform on a bus. Repeat with equivalent white. There's no way the first two will intimidate anyone.

Do you believe that the black kid will scare some people that the white kid doesn't? I think the truth would surprise you. Whites just never think about race.

Zedd:

I was thinking Shark, but I guess it's ladies' choice...

Baronius

Tatoos? Is this 1960? Why not a leather jacket and jeans like The Fonz....

Look, that is just a lie.

Remember we live here too. You'd be surprised what people say to you because they think you are a "GOOD" Black.

You just lied and you lost your credibility. Don't bother to answer. You lie. So its pointless to discuss this issue with you.

Elvira

I know you were. I was being silly, as usual.

Martin,
Don't pretend you know me. The idea of a pseudointellectual trying to figure me out or pretending that he knows me is an exercise in futility.

The fact is my point was lost once the facts were known. It was to make a point and perhaps if your parents did not use LSD you might realize that. I did not apologize for calling someone a name he wasn't I apologized for the error that led to it. Nancy said it earlier, neither term is acceptable and the exercise was to display that idea. Sorry you were not paying attention.

That is the problem with folks like you, failure to comprehend. Nice way to make an argument as well with the witty "you suck."

The attempts at mental masturbation are fruitless.

Is Big Dog a racist for this from an interview:
...there was an occasion when he was walking down the street alone after dark in Chicago and saw two young men walking up behind him. He admitted feeling relieved and safer because they were white.

Big Dog

Are you baiting??????????

Fun, is it not?

Biggie,

I don't pretend to know you and wouldn't actually want to as I've seen enough of what you've written to judge that I