Then, someone rational can take over the leadership of the nation, serving to provide a better future for all Americans instead of providing only for oil company executives.

Out of curiosity do you actually read the links you include in your articles? Even witht he propagandistic nature of the site you link to on the oil plan, it's quite clear that what's going on with the Iraqi oil is a much more equitable system than existed prior to the war. Under Saddam two companies had monopolies on the oil fields in violation of international sanctions, profiteering off of Iraq's vulnerable condition. Under the new PSAs the oil goes into an open market where lots of companies can participate and profits will be distributed to the people of Iraq.

That aside, nice job compiling all those articles on the national guard deployments. Deploying the national guard outside the US should be illegal. The governors of the individual states ought to take the initiative and refuse to let their guard units be deployed. The national guard was never intended to be used as if it were part of the regular military. They are militia and should be purely for the defense and security needs of their individual states.

Dave

I'm all for the PSAs - get them signed into existence so that the Companies can (further) privatize security for oil production (500,000 Swiss mercenaries written off as a cost of production not to mention payment to the US for those bases)

that done the US could send its Guard - the new stormtroopers - off on some other misadventure

when in doubt - outsource

"Then, someone rational can take over the leadership of the nation..."

ha ha ha, ho ho ho, hee hee hee.

Sorry, that was just so much wide eyed polyanna bullshit.

Ho ho ho

...crap I still

...hee hee

...can't stop laughing.

"Deploying the national guard outside the US should be illegal. The governors of the individual states ought to take the initiative and refuse to let their guard units be deployed. The national guard was never intended to be used as if it were part of the regular military. They are militia and should be purely for the defense and security needs of their individual states."
- Dave Nalle

That's what happens when you can't get enough people to fight in a war in which 99% of the so-called "supporters" refuse to enlist and expect someone else to risk life and limb over there.

I say reinstate the draft. And for those who "support" the invasion/occupation, go all the way up to 55 and no deferments.

The governors should flat-out refuse to allow their guard units to go, demand those overseas now be returned home immediately, & issue blanket pardons for all those who refuse to go. Is Bush going to put all 50 governors in jail? It would be an interesting spectacle.

Bush isn't out of his mind; he & Cheney are just plain power-mad. Bush is already going down in history as one of the greatest enemies to the US constitution, & one of if not THE worst president in US history, but I wouldn't be surprised if, at the end of his term, he declared that due to a "state of emergency" (of his own creation) he intends to remain President until further notice & attempts a coup a la Hitler.

Not sure if everyone has seen these videos of the US military in Iraq or not, but they are pretty amazing: Hopefully our 'surge' will not include too many of these types...

I say reinstate the draft. And for those who "support" the invasion/occupation, go all the way up to 55 and no deferments.

So that makes you what, about 56, MCH?

How about we not deploy the guard AND don't have a draft and find more intelligent ways to pursue foreign policy.

Dave

Um, 54 actually, Nalle...but I:
1) don't support the war;
and 2) already served.

So...guess that leaves you, nit.

So you should (2) be a priority call-up for your experience and (1) realize that a draft doesn't give a rat's ass how you feel about this or any other war.

But it's okay, at 54 by the time the legislation was implemented you'd be over the cutoff - but I'm sure you were aware of that when you suggested the age cutoff.

Dave

MCH: In the US, we let non-veterans vote. We even let them become President. It may offend your sensibilities, but there it is.

I'm 42, I never enlisted, and I've never been called upon to serve my country's military. I believe that the Iraq War was the right thing to do. You have more experience on which to base your assessment of the war, but you have no more right to an opinion than I do.

Baronius,

MCH tends to lose sight of the fact that service in the military is at least in part to protect and defend the rights of ALL US citizens, as well as their and the nation's freedom...

Thanks for the link to the videos Minor Ripper. They should be aired on national television. Daily.

"But it's okay, at 54 by the time the legislation was implemented you'd be over the cutoff - but I'm sure you were aware of that when you suggested the age cutoff."
- Dave Nalle

Actually I suggested the age of 55 because of the chickenhawks who promote and support the war, but defer service to someone else, since they're supposedly "too old."

In fact, one of BC's more prolific war-wimps, RJ Elliott, even suggested that at 29 he was "relatively old."

"MCH: In the US, we let non-veterans vote. We even let them become President. It may offend your sensibilities, but there it is."

Baronius:
I'm not opposed to non-veterans voting or becoming president...only to those who expect someone else to do something they themselves have avoided.

There's plently of dogs to shoot in Iraq too NALLE. I'm sure your skills as a big game hunter from Texas would be most welcome.

Martin;
Except the Iraqis might shoot back...

I'm 42, I never enlisted, and I've never been called upon to serve my country's military. I believe that the Iraq War was the right thing to do. You have more experience on which to base your assessment of the war, but you have no more right to an opinion than I do.

Actually, by his own standards he has less of a right to an opinion because he's far less likely to be called up if there were a draft than you are.

You know what I'd like to see out of MCH just once, is an explanation in terms others can understand of why, specifically, he opposes the Iraq War. But I won't set my hopes too high, as the most rational answer I expect out of him is something idiotic like not supporting a war undertaken by a government whose members (like most of their constituents) are mostly not combat veterans.

Dave

I'm not opposed to non-veterans voting or becoming president...only to those who expect someone else to do something they themselves have avoided.

I've avoided giving my truck a tune-up, and I expect the guys at jiffy-lube to do it for $49.95. I'm such a hypocrite.

Dave

From what I've gathered, his objections are the same as mine: an illegal war, based on falsified/carefully selected "intelligence", all of which has proven to be lies, ranging from non-existant WMDs & chemical/bioweapons to "bringing Freedom to the Iraqis" to overthrowing Saddam Hussein or whatever other Bush-shit is the Lie du Jour, for the actual reasons of establishing a US oil cartel hegemony solely for the benefits of private corporations (not national US interests) to which Dubya owed political debts, Halliburton - a business in which most of the WH administration has substantial assets - WHAT a coincidence - Bechtel, & other Bush-related megacorporations, not to mention Junior's burning desire for a legacy as a victorious War Prez, probably to cover for his sorry-ass record as a deserter 35 years ago, & which he is currently so busy denying it's pathetic; ON TOP of W's spending like a drunken Soviet sailor, running up national debts into the trillions, when he started out with surpluses, pouring money down that fucking rathole Iraq & on those fucking worthless Iraqis "rebuilding" it when there are more than a few US cities & citizens who could ALSO & more legitimately use the tax money for their own improvement here in the US; ADDED to BushCo's ongoing deconstruction of the US constitution & citizens rights, probably towards a coup in 2008 in which he proclaims a state of national emergency due to terrorist activities & suspends the elections indefinitely.

MCH, did I leave anything out?

After this, don't say you weren't told what the reasons were.

"I've avoided giving my truck a tune-up, and I expect the guys at jiffy-lube to do it for $49.95. I'm such a hypocrite."
- Dave Nalle

It is interesting to note that Nalle is so far removed from the realities of actual sacrifice, that he compares a vehicle tune-up to being killed in combat.

But what else should we expect of a guy who pontificates military strategy from his fortified compound, 10,000 miles away from the action...?

re #20;
Yep, that pretty well covers it.
Thanx Nancy.

Oh - and I forgot Bush's willingness to sacrifice American lives - all the while none of HIS or anybody connected with the WH admin (like anyone in the Cheney clan) are serving or even enlisted, let alone in combat. For him to send people to die or be mutilated for the sake of his fucking ego/legacy & political payoffs is unconscionable, & IMO he's as big a monster as Hussein or Hitler, and just as deserving of death.

So, MCH.

Too lazy to do your own thinking and posting?

Or not smart enough?

He didn't ask me, I volunteered, because the rest of you obviously didn't remember reading his previous postings, which happen to coincide with my own thoughts on the matter. I take up for you, too, on occasion, Clavos ol' bean, remember.

let me guess...MCH's ISP is in China right - ?

(just kidding)

No, mine is (goddamned cheap-o carrier I got, probably). Ning-hao?

"So, MCH.
Too lazy to do your own thinking and posting?
Or not smart enough?"
- by Dave Nalle's parrott

Clavos, why don't you fly up to the compound and give Dave's truck a tune-up?

DAVE:

ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD PONDER THIS:
"understand of why, specifically, he opposes the Iraq War"

Thanks for finally removing all doubt.

As if anyone did.

'Cept Clavos that is....

Nancy, you miss the point. I was trying to see if MCH is actually capable of articulating any kind of original thought on this or any other subject. You kind of ruined the experiment.

Oh, and BTW MCH, did you know that twice as many people die in the US per year from pharmacists being unable to read doctor's handwriting as have died in 3 years of the war. Just something to think about.

Dave

The Iraq war is like:

• A shower curtain

• Scent-free deodorant

• TV's Bonnie Hunt

• A warm cinnamon roll

• People dying from eating too many supreme nachos

Clavos, why don't you fly up to the compound and give Dave's truck a tune-up?

Sorry, martin. I don't even do my own.

I much prefer to work on the diesels in my boat; the cars and truck get farmed out.

MCH, you're not opposed to non-veterans being President, just Commander-in-Chief. That's interesting.

If you want to be associated with post #20, that's even worse. Maybe you should answer the question, what are your reasonable reasons for opposing the war?

"what are your reasonable reasons for opposing the war?"

FUCK YOU!

There's over 3000 reasonable reasons A-HOLE.
Why don't you and NALLE and the rest of the hungry assed war-mongers on this site, go fight your stupid war and STOP giving your pathetic computer generated reasons over and over again on why it's so legitimate.

Hell even your precious Commander in Fleece is struggling to find reasons on why he did this, while he's struggling to find his way out.
Fight em there, so we don't have to fight em here......blah blah blah.....

It's tired and NO ONE believes it anymore.

Go fight in Iraq!
But not in my name.

Amen to that. Of course, ideally we should send W & Uncle Dickie over there to taste in person what they make others do (without all their secret service protection), but of course there's a snowball's chance of that happening.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we should impeach em, bring em up on charges and then have them "govern" the Iraqi's for 10 years until they can get democracy established. This is a win win win I think.
Bush can finally fulfill his legacy of being on a par with another Democracy establishing GEORGE W.

Heh - OR he can spend the time dodging Iraqi death squads, if he can.

Heh - OR he can spend the time dodging Iraqi death squads, if he can. That WOULD be amusing.

Martin, I was too heavy-handed in my comment, so I'll excuse your outburst. I think you've got to admit that comment #20 was rambling. So far, you, MCH, and Nancy have failed to present an articulate objection to the war. I know that there are arguments against the war that have persuaded a lot of people. But trust me on this, public opinion can turn in a heartbeat. Keep your powder dry and your arguments clear, because you may need them.

I can't speak for #20 or anyone else.....all I can say is I know shit when I see it, I know shit when I smell it and I know anyone with shit for brains knows this war in Iraq was and is a mistake.
If you don't, then you don't know shit.

Sweet. Hone your arguments that well and we'll be back in charge in no time.

Baronius,

martin's an old man who, judging from the caliber of his comments, is probably in the early stages of Alzheimer's.

Don't be too hard on him.

Since I am at the end of the line I haven't much time to respond to your requests specifically.
Since 3000 plus dead soldiers isn't enough to convince you, then I'd say you are a lost cause.

However, since there were no WMD's, no ties to Al Queda and the regime has been changed.....I'd say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

So why are we still there?

Things don't appear to be getting better do they?

Well do they?

So, I send the question back to you SHIT FOR BRAINS......what have we accomplished?

Martin seems to have forgotten that this is a war with Iran, not a war with Iraq.

Dave

I thought it was a War between good and evil Dave?

Aw, Clavos, you're no fun. And you clearly didn't see last night's episode of The Office. Jim and Pam tormented Andy into a breakdown. The trick is to find a target with anger issues, and just keep pushing.

the Tao of D'oh

Wow, D'oh. Didn't realize there was a video for that. Just listening to it inspires me to carry on with my work here the same way it did back in '78 when punk music helped bring me to my current political beliefs.

Dave

Dave has forgotten that this is a war with Islamo-Fascism. It's the ideological battle of our lifetimes.