Blogcritics Comments on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Comment by Zedd on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Fri, 19 Jan 2007 19:17:12 EST

Nancy I hear you and I agree that we shouldn't be there. However, the problem is that a year before the war, a variety of generals said that it would cost trillions of dollars and take about 20yrs to accomplish anything if at all. We the American public were busy watching American Idol and waving flags. We didn't listen. We are now paying for OUR mistake, WE THE PEOPLE. We went ahead and re-elected The Decider. We cant act like spoiled kids. We have ruined a nation. Hundreds of thousands of their people are dead, not because of Saddam, but because of us, WE THE PEOPLE. We screwed up royally and we have got to pay the price. Its only fair. If we don't stick with this, we will pay a heavy price. A greater price than if we leave. What we need to do is wait for another administration; One that is going to apologies internationally for the fiasco and begin to get real help from the international community to support this country to stabilize. If we go commando again and then withdraw, we will face irreparable consequences. We are at a pivotal time in history. The world is changing quickly. Major alliances are being formed as we speak. The information gap is closing. We can not blow it.

Comment by Nancy on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:55:55 EST

Sooner or later, like it or not, the action & decisions have got to lie with the Iraqis whether they continue killing each other, allowing foreign insurgents in, giving them aid & cover, etc. Not us the US voters, not the US military, and not George W. Fucking Bush, whose arrogance, greed, lies, & criminal ignorance are what got us there to begin with. We have already poured how many trillions into Iraq trying to "rebuild" a good deal of what never existed in the first place, except in the immediate vicinity of Saddam's palaces. We owe NOTHING more in either money or blood to these people. What we DO owe them is to hand over W. Bush & Cheney for the Iraqis to deal with as they see fit. I think that would encompass justice pretty well. Even more so if it should involve popped-off heads during hangings.

Comment by Clavos on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:22:07 EST

Adam #46: Yup. It's STILL a good idea. From your keyboard to the WH and Pentagon...

Comment by Adam Ash on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:08:02 EST

What we can do, is stop fighting and withdraw our troops to our fouir biggest bases in Iraq and stay out of the sectarian violence. We just stay holed up, drinking Coke and playing pool. We do nothing, But our presence therre will stop Iran, Turkey, Saudi-Arabia or Egypt from turning the Iraq Civil War into a regional conflict. That's the obvious solution to all our ills in Iraq. Adam Ash

Comment by Zedd on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:43:11 EST

Adam I agree that the manner in which we are there is incorrect. Our strategy is basically to send more and more kids to their death. However, this is our fight. America will NEVER recover any amount of dignity if we leave right now. That entire region would erupt. The fighting would bleed into neighboring countries; terrorism would spread like wild fire. All this during a time when Chavez is doing his thing in South America and developing relations with Iraq. Global stability would crumble. We would be the laughing stock of the world but I don't think that anyone would be laughing. If we don't develop a strategy to contain this conflict within Iraq, we will experience the beginning of our downfall. Our chance passed Adam. When you and I were shaking our heads when CNN had banners which said things like "countdown to freedom" or "operation liberty" in reference to the war, that is when Americans had a say. Everyone was busy waving flags when it was clear to everyone around the world that Iraq had nothing to do with 911. Hans Blix and ElBaradei as Madiba :o) so eloquently stated prior to the war, did not find weapons. We were just caught up in a stupid fervor, as we often are. Perhaps this event will mature America. The malaise of living in a perpetual movie will fall and reality will set in. No amount of money, charm or patriotism can fix this mess. But we can't walk away either. Perhaps we the people will develop a better relationship with "cause and affect". We have got to stay to contain the mess that we made into Iraq, besides it is the JUST thing to do.

Comment by Adam Ash on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:07:10 EST

Zedd: Problem is, we can't fix the mess we made. We can help Iraq businesses rebuild with our money, but we can't stop the Shiites and Sunnis from killing each other. The best thing we can do is leave. Then maybe the insurgency will insurge less, although the killing of Sunnis by Shiites and vice versa will continue. The poor Iraqis will just have to live through the mess we made. Already more than a million of them have left -- the professionals who can afford it -- and the rest will go through their killing phase until they run out of gas (who knows when). Let's hope we'll never have the hubris to think we can install a puppet government in a country we know nothing about again, or worse, think we can force a US-type democracy via the barrels of our guns on a non-US type culture.

Comment by Zedd on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:07:52 EST

Adam, interesting approach. Such an approach towards managing a state was appropriate during ElizabethI's reign per say. I suppose since many Middle Eastern countries have not evolved in the same way as the societies that we are familiar with, your assertion would have some validity. However to add to your practical picture, there were Iraqis who wished him gone. They manipulated the willing American government to accomplish that task, in the same way that shrewd action was employed in the days of QE-I such as when she went to the extent of imprisoning her cousin Mary Queen of Scotts, then had her killed, for the sake of the state (or retaining power). Those that wanted the over throw could then say (if we follow your logic), we cleverly employed the aid of the most powerful force on our planet to remove our enemy. The cost is worth the end result. The death, destruction and mayhem are an investment into democracy. Its a means to an end. In the same way that Saddam's murders were a means to a stable society. If your reasoning is employed, killing and enslaving people would always be rationalized; seen as being for the greater good... Every dictator becomes righteous under that code. At some point, there have to be a people who stand for fairness. Call it what you want (the word democracy has somehow lost its cache) but in the end, we have to stand up for what is JUST. Now what Bush did in sending our troops to Iraq was not JUST. However, leaving the Iraqis with the mess that we've created is also not JUST. The question then become what is most RIGHTEOUS or VIRTUOUS? The answer: We must fix the mess that we created. WE indeed made this war. The polls were in favor of this war, meaning that Americans wanted to go into Iraq. We cant just change our minds because "we" were too ignorant about geography or world dynamics at the time. WE caused the mess and WE must clean it up. It is the RIGHT thing to do. WE waited for Cindy Sheehan to stand up and by then, it was too late.

Comment by Martin Lav on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:24:15 EST

Scumbag. Happy now?

Comment by Adam Ash on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sun, 14 Jan 2007 05:50:52 EST

I thought I might get some comments calling me a scumbag for "defending" Saddam, but nothing happened. Odd, that. Adam Ash

Comment by The village idiot on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:04:29 EST

SHARK. Must admit your comments are always interesting. Please continue sir. sr

Comment by MCH on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:19:54 EST

"They all know that line, don't they?" And here I thought it just belonged to the Navy 1st class PO's and Chiefs...(?)

Comment by Zedd on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:29:08 EST

Lee Please get it right Its called a Baby Mama. To restate your comment: A 14 year old Baby Mama can discuss Bush's 'war on terror', but the Secretary of State can't. The sexual act that she had which resulted in an egg being fertilized, makes her capable of dialoguing and resolving important national and international security issues. Everyone knows that.

Comment by Lee Richards on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:43:03 EST

Let's all be logical here, like Dave. Parents ONLY have the right to express an opinion on education; only those who procreate can possibly have anything worthwhile to say about the environment; and a 14-year old with a baby can discuss Bush's 'war on terror', but the Secretary of State can't. Understand?

Comment by Clavos on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:35:46 EST

They all know that line, don't they?

Comment by D'oh on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:29:49 EST

"I'm no sir, I work for a living and my parents were married." - Nameless NCO.

Comment by Clavos on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:26:40 EST

Dead on, Sir.

Comment by D'oh on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:22:48 EST

Heh...fair enough. But that is what conversation and debate is about. Reasonable people should be able to discuss things rationally, think about them and agree/disagree or whatever. Sometimes, on rare occasions, a revelation can be had, and a mind is changed or opened to another way of thinking about something. Those rare moments make all the bullshit worthwhile. At least that's what I tell myself in the dark times when the truth begins to bite.

Comment by Clavos on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:17:20 EST

Oh, and I still don't always agree with you...

Comment by Clavos on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:16:09 EST

29 wasn't addressed at you, D'oh. My bad. Should have made that clear, but I like to have SOME subtlety. Remember when I told you I read everything you post? I still do, and with as much care as you write 'em.

Comment by D'oh on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:07:50 EST

I chose my words with care, Clavos.

Comment by Clavos on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:55:39 EST

That being said, people who have vested interest (vets...) DO have a distinct viewpoint due to their involvement. Distinctive, yes. More cogent or valid in any way: No. And I are one...

Comment by D'oh on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:50:29 EST

Arch, I completely agree. troll, I'll be saving this one to throw out anytime Dave gives MCH shit for using the argument. That being said, people who have vested interest (vets and parents) DO have a distinct viewpoint due to their involvement. But that doesn't invalidate others from holding and expressing their views.

Comment by Arch Conservative on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:46:33 EST

The last paragraph was supposed to read "it's par for the course to see MCH tell someone they aren't allowed to have a view on the war because they didn't serve....let's face it....he's an idiot...but it's surprising to see Nalle tell someone they're not allowed to have an opinion

Comment by Arch Conservative on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:44:28 EST

I'd just like to remind everyone, especially Major Cerebral Hemmorhage and Dave Nalle that every American, from the right wing bible thumpers telling all non-believers that hell is a'waitin to the scumbag left wing heathens that hate this nation and want to turn it into some kind of idealized theoretical commie utopian paradise, have the right to formulate and express their own opinion on any issue that affects this nation. We are all have this right regardless of whether or not we have served in the military, regardless of whether or not we have children, regardless of our age, sex, income, political affiliation, social views etc..... It's par for the course for MCH to say someone can't have an opinion on the war because to see Nalle saying something like he did in this thread.

Comment by troll on Saddam Sets an Example - Are the Democrats Man Enough to Defund the War?

Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:35:25 EST

best to write that one off as one of Dave's - occasional - 'brain farts'