I really wish you'd quit mending your words around the Irish and telling us what you really think about them.

Agree with all but one thing...

We don't WANT them in the Big East. No desire to add such a mediocre team, and I'd like to kick their basketball team out of the BE while we're at it.

They had their chance. Let them join the MAC or CUSA and fight for their BCS bid, and maybe in a few years they can work their way up to a BCS conference, just like Louisville did.

-A WVU fan...

I am so glad someone finally saw the light and addressed the obvious. It has been a joke around the office where I work, regardless of games won or loss how the BCS would find someway to get ND in a BCS bowl game. Other Major teams could lose a high profiled contest and drop 4 to 6 spots in the standings, but ND no more than 1 to 3 spots. Even in the loss I heard ESPN radio announcers try to uphold ND status by saying what a great win it was for LSU. ND had status at one time as did Alabama, Miami Dolphins,Oakland Raiders, but no more, wake up, let it go.

Excellent article. The arguments are cogent and cannot be attacked. Notre Dame is officially a shell of its former self. Like Alabama, they and their nostalgic fans find comfort only in reveling in past accomplishments. Well, the dust on those trophies are thicker than the B.S. doled out continually to falsely prop up Notre Dame by the national media.

Super article.
I hope the talking pinheads at ESPN read it and pass it on.

"Let them join the MAC"

Deal.

put them in the Big 10, they are all about the same caliber teams with ND, and then the big 10 would play a conference championship game, so Michigan would have never been playing USC either.... just goes to prove, please put in a playoff system of some sort, please!!!

It is impossible not to agree with Sal's assessment of ND present. I am not convinced, however, that ND is not taking the right steps to fix this in the future in terms of upgrading the talent level on the team. Does the schedule make the team? It is an interesting point to consider. I can see that level of competition can play a part but I would suggest that it shouldn't. What I mean is, great teams play great football every week, regardless of who gets set in front of them. ND is not a great football team at present. I think Charlie Weis might be the guy who can upgrade the talent and demand execution from the players. LSU is not better than ND because they play in the SEC, they are better because they have better players.

As to the Alabama references, as a Crimson Tide fan let me say to all of you: Nick Saban was not a nostalgia hire. I don't like the guy very much, but he is a hell of a coach and a great recruiter. Ask Charlie Weis and Les Miles what kind of recruiter Saban is. A lot of those LSU kids were recruited by Saban. I feel quite confident the Tide will be rolling again, sooner rather than later. It won't be this upcoming season, but it won't be long after that.

I never understood why BCS always give ND all that attention when they never play a real winning team, beating crappy teams always get them the BCS bid and they show how good they are when they play real team in the Bowl. I recall Charlie weiss comments on how ND gets treated when they dont go up in the ratings, this is for you Charlie, 14-41 from a team that was 4th in SEC, what would have happened if you had played in SEC, your record would have been 3-8 if that .

Wake up and stop the hysteria. ND is a great school on its way back to respectability in football, and also cruising in basketball in a year they were forecast to finish 11th or worse in the Big East.

- Even with the Academies, ND had the 20th ranked schedule in Div 1 according to Sagarin. Also check when ND played their patsies...not to start the year like most other schools in conferences, but at the end of the year.

- Weis has only had one true recruiting class since he was preparing for the Superbowl in 2004 when he was hired and could not work full time on that class.

- ND gets its share of hypercriticism as well. If Reggie Bush had been with the Irish and received a free house for his family, think many would be screaming long and loud for probation, but since is USC there are small cries.

Wake up and back away from the bong my friend.

Go Irish!

10 years of mediocrity and terrible bowl performances have removed the irish from consideration when discussing the national championship.

the ND fans have become self-parodies with their tired "wait til next year" and "we get the best recruits" and "we're better than everybody else" attitude.

regardless of the recruits they get, they don't play anyone good on a consistant basis and as a result they can't compete with the big boys...9 straight bowl losses confirm this.

and the strength of schedule argument is lacking as ND got blown out by the only decent teams that they played, and struggled mightily to beat some lousy/below average teams.

and i can't wait until next year when they face of against Duke instead of Army...i guess Army with their 2 wins this season posed to much of a threat to the Irish.

Is it time to stop saying that Charlie Weiss is a genius? Maybe he is compared to Lloyd Carr, but not Tressel, Carroll, Bowden, Meyer and plenty of others.

I think Weis was a fine hire for ND but it was still annoying hearing the announcers constantly lauding him for making "in-game" adjustments when in truth, all good coaches do that. Miles made some critical adjustments after ND's last touchdown but no one in the booth seemed to notice.

The other annoyance was the match up in the first place. I don't blame Notre Dame, they didn't make the decision to get a BCS bid and why should they turn it down? But everyone outside of South Bend and ESPN knew that LSU was supposed to blow out the Irish, it wasn't going to raise many eyebrows like whipping Miami 40-3 did last year. I'm glad to see them do it, but frankly, it would have been a higher quality win to beat Michagan or USC by three in the Rose Bowl.

Geaux Tigers!

Anyone else find it amusing that a comment saying ND will be great again was penned by the username "Irish r OK"?

I think Sal is saying that Notre Dame is OK. So we're all in agreement!

Being a graduate of LSU and a tiger fan and supporter, I do think Sal should review our schedule before casting blame on ND's. Our tough schedule, which he referred to, shows ULL, Arizona, Tulane, Miss. St., Fresno State, Old Miss. We actually played three teams and lost to two of them (Auburn and Florida). Had we taken care of business, we would be in the championship game Monday against Ohio State. I do believe we have the best talent of perhaps anyone on the college level.

I'm not sure what your point is.

LSU plays an SEC schedule and are entitled to hook up with some patsies. And it's not the Tigers fault that Miss. St. has decided to stick with a head coach that is clearly out of his depth and that Ole Miss is down.

Besides that LSU played and beat bowl bound and ranked teams Arkansas and Tennessee, lost a close early game to Auburn 7-3 and hung tough with a Florida team. They throughly outclassed some decent teams and beat some good teams. Kentucky wasn't their usual terrible self this year, either.

It's unreasonable - and unfair for national championship reasons - to expect an SEC team to finish the year undefeated. When you play in this kind of league you're going to lose at least one game, if not two, and should still be considered a great team.

On the other hand Notre Dame got hammered by the few good teams that they played and struggled against the handpicked refuse from the good conferences.

1. Sal... Great blog... keep it up.

2. It's appalling how biased the media acted during the Sugar Bowl. From spending 45 minutes spewing useless and irrelevant ND or Quinn stats (such as team GPA of 3.0+) to cutting away in the middle of a LSU running play to show the leprechaun-ish guy doing push ups... it was so pathetic that I muted the TV.

3. Of the two QBs in the Sugar Bowl, JaMarcus Russell was the one with the numbers that counted and Fox should have spent much more time talking about Russell than the last 10 - 15 minutes of the game.

4. Brady Quinn numbers are inflated... the NFL will show you what his capabilites are. He better have a good O line to protect him or he's going to have a David Carr like career.

5. The reason ND gets all the press is simple... money... it's all about the money. Same thing for USC, Oklahoma, Miami, and those massive programs. ND has a much larger fan base than LSU does and the media catered to that.

6. Money and the BCS... I think it's the same thing for the BCS championship game last year (USC has a bigger fan base than UT and got the press), the year before (Auburn should have been in the title game), and the year before that (the AP crying and giving their paper championship to USC, while LSU,the REAL champions, won the BCS title). And what about Boise State this year? I could go on, but let's just hope for a playoff system so the "best" teams will face each other.

6. And finally... ND could move into any of the other conferences that historically have weak schedules such as the ACC, PAC-10, or Conference USA... but that's my opinion... I could be wrong.

I'd love to have ND in the Big East! I follow Syracuse and Rutgers, and I loved the butt kicking that SU put on ND three years ago. Plus its unfair that they get condsideration for one of the BE bowls if they don't make the BCS, but yet don't play more than 1 or 2 BE teams a year. I bet the next time contracts are reviewed, ND is going to be forced to join a conference (BE) or the bar will be raised on them. Like requiring them to have a RPI in the top 15 and be ranked higher than 2 BCS conference champions. The ACC is always going to clock-in a ranking around 17-20 for its champ so that's why I say two. Its a travesty that they are allowed to have their own football network too. They are given all the benefits but with none of the risk.

And as far as Weis turning it around, that's the hope and sentiment for every new coach! Syracuse has a new coach, and just went through a 3-8 season, but we same the same thing about him. So just becasue they have a new coach is no reason to give them a pass and excuse a poor schedule or blowout loses. Get to the back of the line and take your lumps in waiting for your team to get better and then a legit shot at a title. But wait...

...The reason ND fans are so pathetic and unrealistic is that every other team team in America (except Temple and Navy) belongs to a conference and has multiple goals to shoot for (finishing in top half of conference, winning conference, making a bowl game, national title) while all the ND fan have out there is the national title (becasue they will always make someone's bowl game) and trying to beat USC. Thus the unrealistic talk about title hopes every year.

Look if they were the 9th team in the BE they would probably beat Uconn, Cinci, USF, SU, maybe Pitt, and then have 4 no conf games say against, USC, michigan or BC, navy and army. Thats 7 wins a year for guaranteed bowl eligability and they can still play UM and USC, and swap in and out army for teams like Stanford or Duke. They just nead to share that bowl money.

Do me a favor Notre Dame haters.....shut the $#%@ up!!!! Must be jealousy is all I can say. Let Weis get HIS recruits in and we'll see.

yep, nothing like owning the all-time longest bowl game losing streak to generate jealousy...the fans of SEC teams or teams from one of the major conferences really have a lot to be jealous of.

It was foolish of Weis to go for it on 4th down inside his own 40-yard line in the 1st Qtr. On the other end of the field, sure, but not on your own.

The announcers talked about the speed of ND, and we're still waiting to see it. Quinn is mediocre at best, but they did have 1-running back that looked good.

LSU will be back next year with a vengeance opening against VT (who chickened out in 2003). Even without Russell, Flynn (who picked apart a 4th-ranked pass defense at Miami) will be the starter, with a very capable Perrilloux as 2nd string QB.

Geaux Tigers!!!

These anti-ND articles are a dime a dozen. Heres a fact for everybody - nobody plays anybody. Conferences have this little trick where they play a neat little preseason schedule to get a shiney new 4-0 record.

This is why you have the Minnesotas and Purdues in bowl games and then you wonder "gee, I dont remember seeing them win a game since October"

Yes, Notre dame "played nobody" - Georgia Tech, Penn State, Michigan, UCLA, USC, LSU - a virtual whos who of bottom feeders.

The muscle head dope who wrote this toes the typical anti-ND line with his conference/BCS/service academy line of sh*t.

Its much cuter to rip service academies than have to remember Cincinatti, Youngstown State, and Bowling Green - isnt it?

To hell with relationships and 70 years of history, dump 8-4 Navy to bring on the more respectable 8-4 South Florida - that will garner respect.

Dont forget, it is NDs fault that the BCS made a rule allowing only 2 teams from 1 conference into the BCS - making ND the next available in line for the bid - jumping absolutely nobody to get the bid.

Thank God for Wake Forest though, surely they wouldve given LSU a game.....

yes let's give notre dame credit for keeping the tradition alive with navy so that they can beat them for the 45th straight year. how honorable!

notre dame is deserving of kudos for dropping army this year so that they can start a new, great tradition with DUKE - the worst team in D1 college football. appparently temple isn't available.

the boys of south bend do schedule tough teams, and this year they were blasted by both of them.

nobody held georgia tech in high regard going into the season when the top-5 ranked irish squeaked out a win.

and at least when the good teams from real conferences play powderpuff teams, they beat them. unlike ND who was the beneficiary of gifts bestowed upon them by the inept spartans and bruins.

somehow irish apologists don't realize that when teams from the real conferences schedule easy games it's NOT the norm. when ND schedules easy teams it's the norm.

the irish are the proud owners of the longest bowl game losing streak - 9 straight - which is surely the fault of the BCS for making the irish play teams that are actually good.

yessir, losing 8 bowl games in a row by an average of 16 points before being throughly exposed this year is surely not notre dame's fault, but the fault of muscle headed critics of ND.

notre dame's new battle cry should be "wait 'til next year!"

Hate to admit it because I am a Notre Dame fan. But the points made here are straight on correct. As good as the Big East has become immagine adding ND and Penn State. They really shouldn't be in the Big 10... it really hasn't worked for them either.

sound like a broken record sally,

Knowing that youre a ND hater and Im an ND fan, (thanks by the way, youre part of the reason for NDs brand recogntion)care to explain the double standard in college football?

For example, after Michigan beat the pathetic Irish, they solidified themsleves all season long, without question, as a top 3 team.

Though they looked mediocre in the preseason tuneups versus directional Michigans and Vanderbilt - then again after the ND game vs Iowa, Ball State, and others.

People were pissed that Michigan didnt make the BCS title game. Remember they were #2 and got "jumped"

Then they looked worse against USC than Notre dame did. So basically, according to your logic, Notre Dame is a big nothing, so Michigans best appearance this season was a cosmetically close loss to Ohio state?

True or not?

Michigan basically did exactly what ND did against the elite teams they played and I see nothing written about them at all.

Just admit what it is, youre jealous of Notre Dame because up or down, they have a national following.

Why would you even bring up TV contracts? this isnt 1986 anymore - every team in major conferences have every game televised these days.

Oh, to clear up more ignorance on your part. Notre Dame plays Navy every year because Navy helped ND stay afloat during WWII. Navy sent over cadets to ND, spawning what is still the largest ROTC program in America at ND.

To repay Navy, they scheduled them in football so they would get a nice revenue day. The horror but like I said, its easier to mock military personnel than to remember Ball State, Central Michigan, and Vanderbilt.

i do sound like a broken record because all the ND sycophants keep talking about is the nonsense with regard to tradition, repaying navy and their national following.

on the field all of that means nothing. what does mean something is that every time ND plays a good team they get outclassed.

it's very nice that ND throws navy a bone every year, but let's talk about the 9 bowl game losing streak during which they have been totally non-competitive.

funny that ND is compared to Michigan - a notorious under-acheiver in big rivalry games - when they were totally blown out by the Wolverines at home this year.

it must be tough to swallow another failed ND season, but the bottom line is on the field the Irish can't stack up against the best programs in the nation no matter the national following or their riches.

Im pretty sure I know what youre doing as a ND hater. Youre emptying the chamber as fast and furious as you can before you have to just swallow hard, grin, and bear it in the near future.

ND just went to 2 BCS bowl games with the 32nd and 40th ranked recruiting classes for upper classmen currently enrolled.

According to Tom Lemming, last night on his show generation Next, ND is currently his 3rd ranked class for this year. Last year was a talent laden class as well.

So Im sure you see the way things are moving so I understand striking while the irons hot.

As far as losing 9 bowls in a row - yeah, it hasnt been too good. ND is coming out of a down period - you know like USC had from the early 80's through 2002. Like Alabama has been in for years....like Miami during the 90's, like Nebraska since Osborne retired....like Oklahoma in the 90's....Ohio St under Cooper.....

Should I keep going?

Anyway, keep up the good work. Without the haters we wouldnt be the NY Yankees of college football. 13 national Titles - most ever in college football.

it's interesting that anyone who brings up the fact that ND hasn't lived up to the hype and isn't as good as the best teams in the nation is labled as an ND hater by the die hards. but that's to be expected.

and as usual rather than address the points that have been set out to make the case that ND doesn't belong with the big boys, ND fans ignore these points in the present, invoke the glories of the past AND maybe's of the future.

Last I checked they played the 33rd hardest schedule in the nation... far of "ridculously sub par"... but as we all know Wake Forest, Bosie, OU and Louis would have smoked LSU... and tOSU losing to the same exact score to a team from the same exact conference shows me ND wasn't the only thing getting "exposed" during the BCS... but logic and reason have long been void in the ND haters thinking...

ND fans can call upon these alleged toughness of schedule stats as much as they want, but the bottom line is that they LOSE to those teams that are most responsible for making the Irish's schedule "tough."

and by the way, i have no problem with ranking ND #33 based on their strength of schedule. the issue is that people think that they should be in the top 20. how can that be when 32 other teams have better schedules - and beat better teams - and ND loses to the best teams that they play?

and the big 10 HAS been exposed as being overrated, and yet ND got hammered by michigan with touchdown jesus watching. ND also struggled against the spartans and didn't look all that great against purdue either.

so what's your point? that with the 33rd best schedule, and losing to the good teams that they played and struggling against some sub-par teams that ND should be given credit or are worthy of the hype?

No Notre Dame in the Big East, they had their chance. Fatso can keep his new recruits and prop them up against Army, Navy & Air Force...and whatever other fluff they can throw in...too bad the Coast Guard Academy doesn't field a team.

Go 'eers! Go Big East! The U sucks!