absolute garbage. America's illegal and unjust warmongering will eventially bring it down as the history of previous dorminant powers demonstrate. How can any human with any feeling see what is happening in Iraq and wish to create the same utter maddness in Iran.

I am absolutely certain that the writer or writers of this piece or any their love ones will not involved in the fighting they so clamour. They want to con other people again to die for their greed and insecurity.

Yeah you're right Ed.......

Iraqis were much better off under Hussein and every Iranian loves their current leadership and hates everything about the West...

Fucking idiot!

Arch Conservative,

The US definitely doesn't love its leadership and it would be nice to see a Bush hanging right next to Saddam.

And so the ramping rhetoric up for yet another ill-advised and poorly thought out military adventure we both do not need and cannot afford.

Just for a moment, try and remember what the state of world affairs was the day before the "axis of evil" speech, and what it has become.

And if you are going to try and claim a "clear and present danger" made up from whole cloth....again, you had best have real proof, and not the kind of bullshit that was used last time.

Iran's killing of Americans and Israelis is smart. They know America and it's allies don't have the stomach to fight anymore. Our population is old, spoiled, and weak, theirs is young and hungry. History is indeed a lesson, when Romans became too decandent and unwilling to fight their own battles they were destroyed. So it will be with the west.

Did I miss where Iranians are killing Americans? I am guessing Red means in Iraq, and he is talking about the Iranians that are part of the Shi'ia militias/insurgency.

Interesting thing there is that there's not much need for anyone to help the Shi'ia, they are the majority of the population and effectively control the government, all they have to do is wait for the US to leave and they can finish their killing off of the Sunni population.

Iran itself is a whole different story, some there still harbor a grudge against the US for ousting their duly elected president and putting the Shah back on the throne, not to mention the US training and equipping SAVAK for all those years. Oh yes, don't forget we gave Saddam arms and WMD's (chemical) during the 8 year war between the two countries.

Simplistic, jingoistic bullshit is what has gotten the U.S. into the mess it's in over there right now, and what has lead up to that mess, perhaps we had best start to really think things through and work from there, rather than go backwards to some kind of bumper sticker foreign policy.

D'oh

I agree with you but you are sharing a history lesson that most have never learned or just don't care. I say all that believe in American domination get your weapons and head to Iraq now. Why let others die in place of you to support your strong beliefs.

"Did I miss where Iranians are killing Americans?"

Apparently so. Try reading the article before commenting.

I like to know if you are a zionist jew or not,
1000000-1 that you are.

Red, you must be talking about the IED's? Has ti slipped your mind that the majority of the Sunni insurgents would NOT work with Iranian Shi'ia for anything? Or perhaps that , since the Sunni insurgents have a huge percentage of former Republican Guard and Iraqi military people in it, they already know how to make explosives?

From the perspective of actual Intelligence gathered rather than bullshit political spin, you might want to learn the difference between Sunni and Shi'ia, who hates who, and who is doing the fighting.

This will only help you in accurately assessing who is doing what, and why rather than conflating and confusing the various factions and players involved in this hideous conflict of a civil war.

You see, I did read the piece, I just don't agree with most of the things it has said, because they are either ill informed, or demonstrably false.

I agree, the U.S. now needs to fix Iraq, since we have fucked it up much worse than when we got there... women used to drive their cars with heads uncovered...they cannot do so now, over 100 Iraqis being killed every day, infrastructure problems which billions have been thrown at yet seem to never be fixed.

So much more, so much to be done and worked on. Yet this Administration, and the rank and file which follow them are doing the same thing they did with Afghanistan, leaving the task unfinished as the ADD driven policies go and start more shit before they finish cleaning up the mess they have already made.

Try thinking.

"I like to know if you are a Zionist Jew or not,
1000000-1 that you are."

And who are you asking, Zadeh? If you are asking the author, I'll let him answer for himself.

Now you and the rest of you can hear some views from a Jew, not a Zionist, but a believer in G-d, one who lives in Israel, and who wants to see

1) the Wahhabi cancer infecting the Arab world and the Moslem Umma destroyed;
2) peace between an INDEPENDENT Jewish entity in the Land of Israel and an INDEPENDENT Arab entity controlling Arabia, Syria and the land east to Iran;
3) the Iranian imperialists driven back to their own gates in Teheran, and their nuclear appetites curbed by force.

In short, I want to see everyone in my region free to live in peace, sitting under his own fig tree without fear.

Sanctions are garbage. They were tried in Mesopotamia and only reduced the population there to poverty while giving an imperialist coalition of America and Britain the excuse to invade. At this point, sanctions will do nothing at all to the elite ruling in Teheran.

The only solution here is a military one. This solution has to be executed not by some interfering outside power like America, or its present puppet regime in Jerusalem.

The successor to the IDF in a free and liberated Israel, must attack Iran and destroy Teheran if necessary, using its nuclear weapons. We have them, we might as well use them to promote good in the world, instead of evil as has the USA, and the USSR and its successor state, the Russian Federation.

But we must go further. The oil wells that sustain Shia terror must be destroyed, the oil wells that sustain Wahhabi terror must also be destroyed. If this means that Riyadh goes up in nuclear smoke and turns into glass in the desert, so be it. Thus, we will know that the financial underpinning of the Saudi regime will disappear, and the financial underpinning of the murderer in Teheran, Ahmadinejad will also disappear.

At that point, it will be possible for Moslems who honestly want peace and not war to step forward without fear, for the warmongers in Islam will no longer have a paymaster. At that point, real solutions for peace may have a chance.

Ed, You who are so "absolutely sure" are "absolutely wrong." I have at least 30 personal friends who either have served or are currently serving (on your behalf) in Iraq or Afghanistan. Some of them have picked up body parts of their friends. One counted 25 mortars and RPGs sail over his head while on guard duty one day (back in 2004). Others have put bodies back together in the Green Zone hospital. Others, in intelligence units, have met with and shared meals (often in homes) with hundreds of Iraqis. Every one of them felt that we were doing the right thing in being there and every one of them who finished their deployment returned with a deep empathy and varying degrees of respect for the Iraqi people. I also know these soldiers' wives, husbands and children. I correspond with them while they are deployed and meet with them when they are home on leave (my next-door neighbor just returned home for two-weeks leave from Iraq on December 23. His wife and 4 children had Thanksgiving Dinner with me and my family).

I write with intimate knowledge of the situation and the situations of those who are most intimately involved "on the ground."

You might also be interested to know that I am a Christian pastor who registered as a 1-AO during the Vietnam draft (that means I was a conscientious objector willing to serve in the military but not bear arms). I have also taught on Islam, have had my curriculum vetted and approved by the Principal of the local Muslim school and have had a Pakistani Pashtun Muslim lead my adult Sunday School class on the subject of Islam on two ocassions.

Unlike yourself I do not blow hot air or make ignorant accusations against those who hold opinions different from my own.

If you can provide even the smallest shred of evidence that refutes the information given in my article then please share it with us. Otherwise . . . well . . . I think I've said enough.

D'oh, You say that I am "ramping rhetoric up for yet another ill-advised and poorly thought out military adventure." How odd since my post title and content refer to "SANCTIONS."

Iran has repeatedly and consistantly committed acts of war against the United States for nearly 30 years. To my knowledge, with the exceptions of the accidental shooting down of an Iranian passenger jet (which we apologized for) and the take-over of an Iranian oil platform in the Persian Gulf (I believe this was in 1993) we have not responded militarily in any way whatsoever . . . except with rhetoric, modest sanctions and international diplomacy.

We have even shown them the "courtesy" of taking out their primary competetor and rival in the region. (Who we once supported in their war against Iran in the same way that we supported the Soviet Union in their fight against our common enemy, Nazi Germany, in WW II).

It is the United States that has shown remarkable and inexplicable patience and long-suffering with the revolutionary, terrorist-sponsoring, theocratic Shi'ite Islamist Ayatollahs and their spokesmen (such as Ahmadinajad).

These folks have promised to rid the world of both Israel and the United States. All we have sought for is "regime change." This is not even a "Bush doctrine" but one that has been our national policy since the early 1980s (once Carter left the White House . . . I'm not sure he ever formulated a "policy" on Iran . . . he mostly seemed to "wring his hands" in indecisive angst over the matter).

But I've said enough.

Tough sanctions are what I have asked for.

What do you suggest?

Bird,

I'm sorry if I sound cold. All those people who you know in Iraq were meant to lose by an administration serving its masters in Riyadh and bowing to the money they pay. There may have been some level of success by Americans attempting to rebuild the infrastructure in Mesopotamia. We have writers at Blog Critics who can answer to this subject, soldiers in Iraq.

But a better solution to Wahhabi terror could have been implemented in 2001 and wasn't because of the dependence of the Bush family on Saudi (Wahhabi) money. You know this as well as I do.

To back you up, no, you do not vent steam, nor blow hot air through your hat. But the American effort was executed to be a failure in many ways, and it in many ways, it is.

Zadeh, You lose your bet (read my response to Ed). I am neither a Zionist nor a Jew. My Christian faith does not compel me to either support or oppose the existance of Israel as an independent nation.

I have friends who are Jewish (including the local Rabbi) and friends who are Muslim (most of whom oppose the existance of Israel).

It seems that you need to rethink your own prejudice and stereotyping in the area of religion and politics. Including people like me whose thoughts and ideas and facts you so easily dismiss with a bigoted prejudgment.

Please, if you wish to disagree with me give me something of substance to chew on intead of simply demonstrating your lack of having any.

Don't worry Ruvy, you don't sound cold - you sound incompetent.

You think that attacking these countries with nuclear weapons and taking out the main source of income for these countries will solve your problem? Ha.

Iran has not forgiven the US for all it has done in the past 50+ years and you think the people of the region will forgive Israel for nuking their country and taking out their oil wells? Instead of peace they will *all* seek the annhialation of Israel. On top of that Israel will be condemned by every other country in the world that for better or worse, relies on Oil imports from the middle east (which effectively is all of them given the pricing power middle eastern oil has).

First time on this blog, and I must say, some of you people crack me up - especially the Israelis who think dropping some bombs is going to solve your problem.

Bird, I am with you on sanctions, and if what you are stating is NOT indeed an attempt to ramp up for war in the exact same manner as we saw a few years ago in Iraq, then I would apologize. However, I will wait to do so for a bit, since appearances and circumstance in combination with the Administration's rhetoric share eerie similarities.

I would say that the Iranians, as a people not the political entity of their government, have some bones to pick with the U.S., since we deposed their duly elected president to install the Shah as well as helped Saddam and sold him chemical weapons during their 8 year war.

How about we sit down with them first? Start from there and then apply sanctions or treaties as it works out?

As for regime change, we have fucked up Iraq quite a bit trying that shit. Perhaps we should walk away with the Lesson learned that the ONLY real regime change occurs when the people involved do it themselves.

You know, like the American regime change we did in the 1700's.

Just a thought.

Ruvy, my friend, You do not sound cold . . . but, perhaps, a bit cynical! I do not personally believe that the Bushs' desire for money is the be-all end-all of this conflict. Access to oil? Certainty. The coinciding of national and personal interests in removing Saddam from power? Certainly. The removal of a long-term destablizing presence in the Middle East? Certainly. The strategic geographic and political isolation of Iran from the rest of the Muslim world? Certainly. The potential establishment of a free, moderate and nominally democratic government in the midst of a region monopolized by despotic, tyrannical, backwards, scheming, deceiptful, violent, corrupt and disfunctional Muslim nations that have created nothing but poverty, conflict, bitterness, hopelessness, hatred and radical Islamist movements desisgned to destablize the region and threaten the existance and prosperity of the "Western world?" Certainly.

The United States has many in our government who are just a petty and short-sighted as the ones you have in Israel.

But to suggest that this is all about Saudi oil money and the Bush family? I think you are getting close to tinfoil hat territory with that theory!

As for Israel, it is in the United States' interests to find a successful and peaceful resolution of the conflict that includes a free and independent Israel remaining more or less where it is.

This is not viewed by any of the surrounding countries as being in their best interests.

That, in a nutshell, is the issue and the conflict. The United States has to work WITH countries who are in conflict with the United States' interests on Israel in order to naintain our access to oil supplies (which is also in our national intersts). This is a juggling act that costs me a great deal of tax dollars each year.

Israel gets the biggest financial benefit from this. Egypt, second.

economic sanctions serve little purpose other than to punish the poor and feed anti-american sentiment

Excellent point, troll.

Hence my admonition to actually sit down and talk first. Any approach must be comprehensive and far reaching.

It was the Persians who invented chess, and in the political arena, are "playing" it now. Unfortunately, the WH is still "playing" checkers.

Eaken,

You write like a fool.

All the Wahhabi influenced Arabs have ever sought is the murder of Jews, and the annihilation of Israel. This goes back to the massacres of the Jewish community in Hebron in 1929 and the various Arab riots that took place that year. So taking out their money source is of no worry to me; they hate us already. I don't give a damn if they hate us some more. It's nothing new. If they hate us, they can eat our bullets, and burn into ash by our nukes. It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.

As for gratitude, the Arabs will get peace when they learn to love their children more than they love death. And we Jews will have peace when we stop worrying about the gratitude of goyim. It is what WE do that matters, not what they think. That is why the leadership of this country has to swing on the noose, just as did Saddam Hussein today, for treason.

The Wahhabi have been singing the same song for 250 years in terms of "my way or the highway" for Moslems, and their prescription for non-Moslems since they wrested control of the Moslem Brotherhood is no different. The Union Bank (via Prescott Bush) and the British imperialists who gave power to the ibn Saud family in the early 1920's made a huge mistake backing these heartless bastards, and now American soldiers and civilians (remember all those thousands who died when the WTC came toppling down?) are paying the price.

There is no negotiating with these bastards. Either you convert or you die. That is the position of the Wahhabi funded madrassas that they teach Moslems throughout the world. The only solution that you have is their death. This means murdering off the Wahhabi princes. YOUR country and the elites who run it haven't got the balls to do this.

So, the elites who run America are not paying the price, the common man is. But that is your problem.

OUR problem is to wean ourselves of the American aid tit, and to wean the Arabs of the oil tit. That is what my solutions are aimed at, something I could not expect you to comprehend at all.

D'oh,

The Indians invented chess. The Persians only gave the game the name. And nukes burn both Persians and chess boards.

not to mention all other living things

Ruvy, it would depend on what you call "chess"..I am not speaking of "go" or other early forms, but chess as we know it today.

As for your own psychotic expostulations about nuking innocent human beings along with the guilty, I chalk it up to too much pressure coupled with messianic politics and leave it as an example that neither "side" in the Arab/Israeli conflict of fundamentalists has anything resembling a "moral high ground".

D'oh,

I don't give a shit about "the moral high ground". That's what fools go after. Also, I don't give a shit about killing my enemies. I can't afford to. I follow the Talmudic injunction, "He who raises his hand to bless you, bless first. He who raises his hand to kill you, kill first.

Ruvy, my personal apologies, and my best wishes to you and yours. However your diatribe on this thread, and other places, about nuking people out of hand demonstrates that there just is no difference between extremist fundamentalists on either side of this conflict.

"an eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth will eventually leave everyone blind and gumming their matzoh"

BOP: wanta invade Iran? You and whose army?

you know ed, you are wrong as hell, somesay you are daydreaming, i suggest you listen to news more often i have more reliable sources that you can ever dream of having and there is no way and by that i say NO WAY that u.s. can invade iran so just shu t up. sanctions will do nothing to that strong country as it never did before. or have you forgotten the strong resistance of iranians in iraq war and not to mention that at that time they didn't have no government and the shah had just left and the world was supporting iraq with money and weapons and millitia. and who the hell says that iran doesn't have the right to build electricity? when they say it PEACEFUL then its peaceful and no one asked your opinion. got that kiddo? and by the way you ain't have no friends back at afghan or iraq.

you know what ruvy, FUCK YOU ruvy. go back to jerusalem.

Although the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988 was a war over dominance of the Persian Gulf region, the roots of the war go back many centuries. There has been rivalry between kingdoms of Mesopotamia (the Tigris-Euphrates valley, modern Iraq) and the rugged highlands to the East (modern Persia or Iran) since the beginning of recorded history in Sumer.

More precisely, the origins of the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988 go back to the question of sovereignty over the resource-rich province of Khuzestan. Khuzestan was home to the Elamite Empire, an independent, non-Semitic, and non-Indo-European-speaking kingdom, whose capital was Susa and the territory of which spanned almost exclusively in what is now Iran. Khuzestan has been attacked and occupied by various kingdoms of Mesopotamia (and vice versa) many times. Indeed, the dawn of recorded history opens with the earliest historical ruler who can be archaeologically attested, Enmebaragesi of Kish, subduing Elam (ca. 2650 BC), first of several Sumerian potentates to do so. Elam was finally able to return the favor in 2004 BC when they sacked the city of Ur for the first time, bringing the predominant 3rd dynasty of Ur to an end.

Before the Ottoman empire, Iraq was part of Persia ruled under the Aq Qoyunlu dynasty. The rising power of the Ottomans put an end to this when Murad IV annexed what is today Iraq from the weakening Safavids of Persia in 1638 via the Treaty of Zuhab. The border disputes between Persia and the Ottomans never ended, however. Between 1555 and 1918, Persia and the Ottoman empire signed no fewer than 18 treaties delineating their disputed borders. Modern Iraq was created with British involvement in the region and the final collapse of the Ottoman empire, thereby inheriting all the disputes with Persia.

On 18 December 1959, `Abd al-Karīm Qāsim, who had just taken control of Iraq by coup d'état, openly declared: "We do not wish to refer to the history of Arab tribes residing in Al-Ahwaz and Mohammareh [Khorramshahr]. The Ottomans handed over Mohammareh, which was part of Iraqi territory, to Iran." The Iraqi regime's dissatisfaction with Iran's possession of the oil-rich Khuzestan province was not limited to rhetorical statements; Iraq began supporting secessionist movements in Khuzestan, and even raised the issue of its territorial claims at the next meeting of the Arab League, without success. Iraq showed reluctance in fulfilling existing agreements with Iran -- especially after the death of Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser and the rise of the Ba`ath Party, when Iraq decided to take on the role of "leader of the Arab world".

In 1969, the deputy prime minister of Iraq openly declared: "Iraq's dispute with Iran is in connection with Arabistan (Khuzestan) which is part of Iraq's soil and was annexed to Iran during foreign rule." Soon Iraqi radio stations began exclusively broadcasting into "Arabistan", encouraging Arabs living in Iran and even Balūchīs to revolt against the Shah of Iran's government. Basra TV stations even began showing Iran's Khuzestan province as part of Iraq's new province called Nasiriyyah, renaming all Iranian cities with Arabic names.

In 1971, Iraq broke diplomatic relations with Iran after claiming sovereignty rights over the islands of Abu Musa, Greater Tunb and Lesser Tunb in the Persian Gulf, following the withdrawal of the British. Iraq then expropriated the properties of 70,000 Iranians and expelled them from its territory, after complaining to the Arab League and the UN without success.

One of the factors contributing to hostility between the two powers was a dispute over full control of the Arvandrud/Shatt al-Arab waterway at the head of the Persian Gulf, an important channel for the oil exports of both countries. In 1975, United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger had sanctioned Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi to attack Iraq over the waterway, then under Iraqi control; soon afterward, both nations signed the Algiers Accord, where Iraq made territorial concessions -- including the waterway -- in exchange for normalized relations.

Iraq had staged a battle against Iranian forces a year earlier in 1974, resulting in heavy casualties on both sides. Iran attempted to destabilize Iraq, and encouraged Kurdish nationalists to break up the country, in response to Iraq's similar activities in Iran's Khuzestan province.

However, the relationship between Iranian and Iraqi governments briefly improved in 1978, when Iranian agents in Iraq discovered a pro-Soviet coup d'etat against the Iraqi government. When informed of this plot, Saddam Hussein, who was Vice President at the time, ordered the execution of dozens of his army officers, and to return the favor, expelled Ruhollah Khomeini, an exiled leader of clerical opposition to the Shah, from Iraq.

Iran's embassy in London was subsequently attacked by Iraqi-sponsored terrorist forces a few months prior to the war in 1980, in what came to be known as the Iranian Embassy Siege.

Saddam Hussein was keenly interested in elevating Iraq to a strong regional power. A successful invasion of Iran would make Iraq the dominant power in the Persian Gulf region, and would strengthen its lucrative oil trade. Such lofty ambitions were not that far-fetched. Severe officer purges (including several executions ordered by Sadegh Khalkhali, the post-revolution sharia ruler), and spare parts shortages for Iran's American-made equipment, had crippled Iran's once mighty military. The bulk of the Iranian military was made up of poorly armed, though committed, militias. Iran had minimal defenses in the Arvand/Shatt al-`Arab river.

Saddam on numerous occasions alluded to the Islamic conquest of Iran in propagating his position against Iran. For example, on 2 April 1980, half a year before the outbreak of the war, in a visit by Saddam to al-Mustansiriyyah University in Baghdad, drawing parallels with the 7th century defeat of Persia in the Battle of al-Qādisiyyah, he announced:

"In your name, brothers, and on behalf of the Iraqis and Arabs everywhere we tell those [Persian] cowards and dwarfs who try to avenge Al-Qadisiyah that the spirit of Al-Qadisiyah as well as the blood and honor of the people of Al-Qadisiyah who carried the message on their spearheads are greater than their attempts."[3]
The aftermath of the Iranian Revolution of 1979 was central to the conflict. The Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini was threatening to export Islamic revolution to the rest of the Middle East -- even though Iran was hardly in any position to do so militarily, for most of the Shah's army had already been disbanded. The Khomeinist camp despised Iraq's Ba`athist secularism in particular, and believed that the oppressed Shias in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait could follow the Iranian example and turn against their governments. At the same time, the revolution in Iran, the destabilization of the country, and its alienation from the West made it a tempting target to the expansionist Saddam Hussein. In particular he felt that Iranian Sunni citizens would rather join a powerful Sunni-led Iraq than remain in the Shia-dominated Iran.

Thus, Iraq started the war believing that Sunnis of Iran would join the opposing forces. It seems that Saddam had not fully appreciated the power of nationalism over historically clan-centered differences, nor the power of the central state apparatus that controlled the press. Although some of the ethnic Arabs of Khuzestan collaborated with Iraqis, most of the Sunnis of Iran turned against the Iraqi forces.

The UN Secretary General report dated 9 December 1991 (S/23273) explicitly cites "Iraq's aggression against Iran" in starting the war and breaching International security and peace.[4]

you know what ruvy , iran is the one of the strong countries ever and they will fuck you and your israel up .

In the meantime, Defender, Israeli units operate in Iraq and in Iran. The suicidal fools running the show on government hill can embrace a suicidal foreign policy, hitching their wagon to America. But they will fall.

A more intelligent solution will be to nuke Teheran and Riyadh, and to destroy the oil wealth with which the rich in both countries (as well as the super-rich in the States) oppress us all. I'll take the trouble to read and absorb the history you have laid out in your comment #31 and use it to advantage. Thank you.

I leave you with a statement to consider well:

Those who bless Israel will be blessed; those who curse her will be cursed. Read and remember.

Defender, Why does Iran have such a hate for Israel? And why do you have such a hatred for Ruvy?

defender, by the way, your history lesson was very interesting and helpful. It appears to be consistant with what I have read and experienced of this history myself. The f**k you comments, however, disqualify you as a tasteful or reputable commentor on this thread.

Or shall i say people of christian faith.Pray,yes does change thing's. But WE have sinned a great sin in the lords eye's. and we will be punnished.for those that think war will resolve the problem ,well it wont...,hate is a strong word but not used by 'GOD' love thy enimies,turn the cheeck.there are lots of way to deal with evil.I say it's too late.the book of revalation is upon us and no one want's to beleive it's happening,for along time we have been getting punished for the wrong that we do,and still are,Pray and keep Praying. Just maybe god would forgive us and lead use to the path of rightousness. are were all going too eternail ebomonation.politaly can'tchange Laws of the land but in my heart i can!!!!!!

tbone:

You are right in saying that a Christian should love the things that God loves. But a Christian should also hate the things that God helps.

Here is a sampler from scripture:

"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel." Malachi 2:16

"I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty." Malachi 2:16

" . . .they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates." Deuteronomy 12:31

" . . . do not erect a sacred stone, for these the LORD your God hates." Deuteronomy 16:22

"The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates." Psalm 11:5

"Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked." Psalm 97:10

"There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers." Proverbs6:15-19

"To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech." Proverbs 8:13

"For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery and iniquity." Isaiah 61:8

" . . . therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I will give you over to bloodshed and it will pursue you. Since you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you." Ezekiel 35:6

"Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts. Perhaps the LORD God Almighty will have mercy . . ." Amos 5:15

"These are the things you are to do: Speak the truth to each other, and render true and sound judgment in your courts; do not plot evil against your neighbor, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the LORD." Zechariah 8:16-17

Reading Defender's history of Iraq-Iran relationships I don't reach quite the same conclusion he does. It seems to me that while he concludes that Iraq has been the aggreessor, it's more the case that Iran and Iraq have both had it in for each other, locked in a mindless death dance for decades.

Dave

bird of paradise, the reason that iranians or i better say , muslims have hatred for isrealys is because long time ago, when they bought the lands and made up their own country,during the world war II they collected weapons and attacked the defenseless innocent unarmed people of the region to take the lands from them. that angers iran. i don't have problems with all jews, neither does iran, the conflict is about the government and the soldiers. so i don't really like isareal.

Jews living in the Diaspora have sought to emigrate into Israel throughout the centuries. For example, in 1141 Yehuda Halevi issued a call to the Jews to emigrate to Eretz Israel and eventually died in Jerusalem. In 1267, Nahmanides settled in Jerusalem and since then a continual Jewish presence in Jerusalem has been maintained. Yosef Karo immigrated to the large Jewish community in Safed in 1535. Waves of immigration also occurred, for example in the years 1209-1211, the "aliyah of the Rabbis of France and England" to Acre became famous as in 1258 and 1266. In 1260, Yechiel of Paris emigrated to Acre along with his son and a large group of followers. Small waves of immigration occurred during the 18th century out of religious motives, famously Menachem Mendel of Vitebsk and 300 of his followers, Judah he-Hasid and over 1000 disciples, and over five hundred disciples (and their families) of the Vilna Gaon known as Perushim. Waves of rabbinical students immigrated in 1808-1809, settling in Tiberias, Safed and then in Jerusalem.[9]

In 1860, the old Jewish community in Jerusalem started building neighborhoods outside the walls of the Old City (the first one being Mishkenot Sha'ananim). In 1878, the first modern agricultural settlement was founded in the form of Petah Tikva.

The first big wave of modern immigration to Israel, or Aliyah (עלייה) started in 1881 as Jews fled growing persecution, or followed the Socialist Zionist ideas of Moses Hess and others of "redemption of the soil." Jews bought land from Ottoman and individual Arab landholders. After Jews established agricultural settlements, tensions erupted[citation needed] between the Jews and Arabs.

Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), an Austro-Hungarian Jew, founded the Zionist movement. In 1896, he published Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State), in which he called for the establishment of a national Jewish state. The following year he helped convene the first World Zionist Congress.

The establishment of Zionism led to the Second Aliyah (1904-1914) with the influx of around forty thousand Jews. In 1917, the British Foreign Secretary Arthur J. Balfour issued the Balfour Declaration that "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people." In 1920, Palestine became a League of Nations mandate administered by Britain.

Jewish immigration resumed in third (1919-1923) and fourth (1924-1929) waves after World War I. In a massacre of Jews by Arabs in 1929 133 Jews, including 67 in Hebron were killed. In total, 133 Jews and 116 Arabs were killed in the riots.

dear dave, i advise you to seek and find and then read the story of the war of iran and iraq and then judge.(from a trustworthy source)
iraq attacked iran becuase they wanted the biggest oil refinery of iran in the city of khuzestan, they attacked with no reason or excuse. but this is not what we're discussing, what i'm trying to say is that isaraely's don't have respect for other people rights and they do not understand human beings and their legal rights,they just break into someone's homeland and .... i still didn't have MUCH against israely,s untill last summer, and by not much i mean not so much that it tempts me to do something serious about it although i heard the killing of poor palestinians everyday. but when they attacked the leobnan, well they crossed the line a long time ago but that is something else. hey ruvy tell me something. what was the reason to kill 168 unarmed and innocent women and children of palestine 1 month ago? what was the reason to attack the mosques, the holy place of the many millions of muslims around the world and killing the people praying in it?if thats the path that the jews and the israel made then iran knows how to deal with it and he will make sure that israel either chooses it's path or destroys it and wipe israel off the map. (refer to the ali larijani, the defense spokes man of iran's reply about destroying israel.)

The rise of Nazism in 1933 led to a fifth wave of Aliyah. The Jews in the region increased from 11% of the population in 1922 to 30% by 1940.[citation needed] 28% of the land was already bought and owned by Zionist organizations plus additional private land owned by Jews.[citation needed] The southern half of the country is the barren and mostly empty Negev desert. The subsequent Holocaust in Europe led to additional immigration from other parts of Europe. By the end of World War II, the number of Jews in Palestine was approximately 600,000.

In 1939, the British introduced a White Paper of 1939, which limited Jewish immigration over the course of the war to 75,000 and restricted purchase of land by Jews, perhaps in response to the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. The White Paper was seen as a betrayal by the Jewish community and Zionists, who perceived it as being in conflict with the Balfour Declaration. The Arabs were not entirely satisfied either, as they wanted Jewish immigration halted completely. However, the White Paper guided British policy until the end of the term of their Mandate. As a result, many Jews fleeing to Palestine to avoid Nazi persecution and the Holocaust were intercepted and returned to Europe. Two specific examples of this policy involved the ships Struma and Exodus (carrying Holocaust survivors in 1947).[10]

Attempts by Jews to circumvent the blockade and flee Europe became known as Aliya Beth.

See also: Jewish refugees and 1922 Text: League of Nations Palestine Mandate

Jewish Underground groups
Main article: British Mandate of Palestine
As tensions grew between the Jewish and Arab populations and Arab attacks on Jews increased, and with little apparent support from the British mandate authorities, the Jewish community began to rely on itself for defense.

Many Arabs, opposed to the Balfour Declaration, the mandate, and the Jewish National Home, instigated riots and pogroms against Jews in Jerusalem, Hebron, Jaffa, and Haifa. As a result of the 1921 Arab attacks, the Haganah was formed to protect Jewish settlements. The Haganah was mostly defensive in nature, which among other things caused several members to split off and form the militant group Irgun (initially known as Hagana Bet) in 1931. The Irgun adhered to a much more active approach, which included attacks and initiation of armed actions against the British, such as attacking British military headquarters, the King David Hotel, which killed 91 people. Haganah, on the other hand, often preferred restraint. A further split occurred when Avraham Stern left the Irgun to form Lehi, (also known as the Stern Gang) which was much more extreme in its methods. Unlike the Irgun, they refused any co-operation with the British during World War II and even attempted to work with the Nazis to secure European Jewry's emigration to Palestine.

These groups had an enormous impact on events and procedures in the period preceding the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, such as Aliya Beth (the clandestine immigration from Europe), the forming of the Israel Defense Forces, and the withdrawal of the British, as well as to a great degree forming the foundation of the political parties which exist in Israel today.

Main article: Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence from groups such as Irgun and Lehi in response to Arab attacks, uncontrollable immigration from Europe and general war-weariness, the British government decided to withdraw from the Palestine Mandate.[11] The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, with the Jewish area consisting of roughly 55% of the land, and the Arab area roughly 45%. Jerusalem was planned to be an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.

Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the UN General Assembly on November 29, 1947, David Ben-Gurion tentatively accepted the partition, while the Arab League rejected it. The Arab Higher Committee immediately ordered a violent three-day strike on Jewish civilians, attacking buildings, shops, and neighborhoods, and prompting counter-attacks organized by underground Jewish militias like the Lehi and Irgun. These attacks soon turned into widespread fighting between Arabs and Jews, this civil war being the first "phase" of the 1948 War of Independence.[12]

The State of Israel was proclaimed on May 14, 1948, one day before the expiry of the Palestine Mandate. Israel was admitted as a member of the United Nations on May 11, 1949.

Main article: 1948 Arab-Israeli War
See also: Jewish exodus from Arab lands, Palestinian exodus, and Arab-Israeli conflict
Following the State of Israel's establishment, the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq declared war on Israel and began the second phase of the 1948 Arab - Israeli War. From the north, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq were all but stopped relatively close to the borders. Jordanian forces, invading from the east, captured East Jerusalem and laid siege on the city's west. However, forces of the Haganah successfully stopped most invading forces, and Irgun forces halted Egyptian encroachment from the south. At the beginning of June, the UN declared a one-month ceasefire during which the Israel Defense Forces were officially formed. After numerous months of war, a ceasefire was declared in 1949 and temporary borders, known as the Green Line, were instituted. Israel had gained an additional 26% of the Mandate territory west of the Jordan River. Jordan, for its part, held the large mountainous areas of Judea and Samaria, which became known as the West Bank. Egypt took control of a small strip of land along the coast, which became known as the Gaza Strip.

During and after the war, then Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion set about establishing order by dismantling the Palmach and underground organizations like the Irgun and Lehi. Those two groups were classified as terror organizations after the murder of Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat.

Large numbers of the Arab population fled the newly-created Jewish State during the Palestinian exodus, which is referred to by many Palestinian groups and individuals as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة), meaning "disaster" or "cataclysm". Some Israeli historians suggest that the Palestinians fled because of orders from Arab generals. Many Palestinians left under the belief that the Arab armies would prevail and they would return.[13] Moreover, "Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel" were offered "full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions" in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel; many, however, refused.

Estimates of the final refugee count range from 400,000 to 900,000 with the official United Nations count at 711,000.[14] The continuing conflict between Israel and the Arab world resulted in a lasting displacement that persists to this day, due to the fact that no Arab country absorbed the refugees nor did Israel wish to allow back into itself a potentially hostile population.

Immigration of Holocaust survivors and Jewish refugees from Arab lands doubled Israel's population within a year of independence. Over the following years approximately 850,000 Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews fled or were expelled from surrounding Arab countries and Iran. Of these, about 600,000 settled in Israel; the remainder went to Europe and the Americas (see Jewish exodus from Arab lands).


1950s and 1960s

(defender - did you cite the source from which you are cutting and pasting somewhere - ? it's pretty concise and I'd like to read more)

Those who bless Israel will be blessed; those who curse her will be cursed

Yea. Ruvy, how is Israel different than any other country? Give me a break. What you mean is: "Anyone who blesses anyone else will be blessed; those who curse anyone else will be cursed".

Uh, Ruvy: "A more intelligent solution will be to nuke Teheran and Riyadh, ..." doesn't seem to fit my notion of 'intelligent'. Sorry.

ruvy know that a violent response might work in the short term, but in the long term makes the situation even worse than before, as a violent response is all too likely to draw a reaction that is also violent.

You all speak about islam like it's a religion.

Guess what? It's another damn cult!

excuse me richard??? islam is aculture and not a religion?? what's the next thing you gonna tell me ? wait don't let me guess ..... oh perhaps moon is blue and the scientists were proved wrong.. a culture!! you know what you said it doesn't even make me angry it makes me laugh, name one thing that iranians have in common with arabs? and what about those indians who are muslim?? oh and they must've changed their culture and CHOOSE another one. so why do all those muslims jump up and down 5 times a day?, for thier cultures? so the indians, persians, chinese , americans , arabs and other nation muslims are only doing their CULTURAL DUTIES and .... oh for jesus christ THINK BEFORE YOU TALK richard , for god's sake. don't just make an absolute fool of yourself with your first comment. it ain't woth it.

I agree with Richard, Islam is another culture and not a religion. I wonder why a so-called religion would instruct its folowers to kill all non muslims at whatever costs. I don't have much knowledge of the book (holy book as it is said) Iran thinks it has arrived but i want to let it know that it still has a long way to go competing or warring with america. If it dares, utter destruction will be the end result. More sactions are coming and its fuel (crude oil) will be nothing but a mess which no one is willing to buy. Take it or leave it, Israel cannot be destroyed by any means. Forget about nuclear weapons or any WMDs, the destruction of Israel is not on this planet earth. Have u ever reasoned why America suppports israel? Why did England in those days? What was the end result of England when it rejected Israel? The truth is Israel will always find refuge or solace in any place at any time. When this is no more possible, then JESUS will give them solace. I am not being sentimental or being religion biased, but that is the whole truth.

Long live Israel! Long live America! Long Live England! Long Live Germany! Short Live Iran and its allied torrorists.

Based on the format, I believe that Defender is just cutting and pasting from Wikipedia and I wish he'd stop. On the other hand his original writing is completely incomprehensible, so it's a lose-lose kind of deal.

Dave

islam does not instruct followers to kill non muslims at all costs, if you don't know anything about islam or not sure of it then just shut your ass up and sit back, you know you are a sick man with a bunch of sick blieves and arguing and trying to aknowleddge will not do any good unless you go and do some raserch before opening your big ol ass mouth and commenting about it, i'll just leave you with a note or i beter say a bet, as long as china, syra, and russia are cooperating with iran israel can suck my dick and fuck her mother, and i let you know the day that israel get's wiped off the map and iran will win the war that is going to start soon and u don't know about it but i do. and to you dave i did not copy paste those articles from winkipedia, I AM THE AUTHOR WHO SENT TTHE REPORT TO THE WINKIPEDIA AT the first place you idiot, you shoud have looked carefully and you see the article and the author.

and by the way i meant wikipedia * by winki[pedia ( i got really mad at holistic from under the equator, comment # 52 and i just typed too fast.)

i didn't know how stupid you could be dave, i did the reaserch and i sent it over to wikipedia, i have numeros rewards for that reaserch. i am a 41 year old man and i know alot more than your age and i'm way ahead of you kids, i get the credit for the reasearch and i have the right to use it whereever i want and whenever i wish while you kids just learn a word "wikipedia" and you think your god and kbnow everything. i'm outta here. this is just a waste of time.i have no respect for you guys.

Defender, I'm older than you are - my age being one of many things you don't know about me - and it seems unlikely to me that the same person who wrote comment #56 wrote those Wikipedia entries. You may have provided some of the research - that's certainly possible - but you sure didn't put it in its final form. I'm sure that whatever you provided got pretty massively edited since I doubt your version would have met wikipedia's standards on neutrality, what with you being a virulent anti-semite and all.

Dave

How can you people fabricate lies like this? Don't you think this information is readily available on the internet? These people were invited by Iraq and Iraq's president has been complaining about the Americans detaining them! Keep lying, you only show your true colour, people are not stupid.

Persia Rules,
i am persian and it is sad to read what goes on here,
first we need to differenciate between zionist and jews,
the persians have been the strongest protectors of the jewish culture,
in the jewish holy book its been said many times that the iranians protected and sheltered the jewish people,
the very fact that the president of ISRAEL is a iranian jew should be the proof,
jews culture has taken lots of its tradition from the persians and the great persian kings like DARYUSH and KOROSH have protected the jewish ppl many times,
all one needs to do is to read the history to see who were the real killers of innocent jewish ppl.
isnt that amazing that every european country has killed jewish ppl,the only european country that has not massacare the jewish is denmark,
unfortunatly the zionist media that has taken full control of media in the west along with the jewish lobbys are trying very hard to creat more destruction and more wars in the middle east and so the new propoganda of war,
persians have always protected the jewish culture and a short 10 minutes study in the history of the jewish ppl will prove that,
as i said before the fact that the president of israel is a iranian does say the fact,
ahmadinejad does not speak for iran or for the persians,
no true persian would want to see any harm done or brought upon anyone just cos they are from diff religion,
we say NO to the idiot ahmadinejad but also no to the zionist criminals that want to see more blood in the middle east
scott ritters book on zionist manipulation of the facts to start another war is very interesting to read,
lets hope of the day when we all dance and drink together away from dirty politics,war and misery,

NO strong ISRAEL can exist without a strong IRAN and no strong IRAN can exist without a stong ISRAEL.
in the time of shah iran and israel had the best relation in the area,
ARABS have always considered persian and jews there biggest enemy,
the fact the thousands of iranians were killed bombed tortured and rapped by the arabs and the fact that they have always decleard war against the persians must unite the persian and jews to stand together against ARAB agression.
shame and more shame that the freak called ahmadinejad is runing our beautiful persia,
persia will be back in the hands of persian again and will stand united with israel against arab agression.

to arabs and jews why do you have to fight.you are all descended from abraham. and believe in the same GOD.

Well, it may be true that no strong Iran can exist without a strong Israel, but all that's needed for a strong Israel to exist is for G^d to so desire. And THAT is primarily dependent on how well we -- 'Am Israel, the Jewish People -- live up to our obligations to Him.

And Dave, I agree with you: I seriously doubt that the author of comments #29, 32, 39, and 56 is also the final-draft author of the WINKIPEDIA cut-and-pastes. (BTW, notice how the long-winded cut-and-pastes cut the legs out from under his assertions in #39? Could there be 2 different posters here, both going by the monicker "defender"?)

I have a question here that has nothing to do with the topic. I see that in comment #45, "defender" was able to get the comment medium to pick up and display Arabic (النكب- naqba). Is it possible to get this comment medium to display Hebrew or Greek text as well?

Chris, any ideas or thoughts. Defender, what method did you use to get this comment medium to display Arabic?

Defender, and others.

Islam is a religion, just as is Judaism. But there is a Moslem culture, or rather several Moslem cultures, just as there is are Jewish, Christian and Hindu cultures that go beyond the boundaries of the religious precepts espoused.

Like many other religions, Islam has a number of streams. I know a little about the Shia stream, but a little more about the Sunni stream. What I do know best is that the Wahhabi "stream" was kicked out by the Khalifs centuries ago, and it has attempted to conquer Islam for over two centuries. The other thing I know well is that the western imperialists made their alliance with the Wahhabis - and it was the biggest mistake they could have made, aside from sending Lenin to the Finland station in 1917. Both acts have cost millions and millions of lives, and if the Wahhabi stream is not destroyed soon, millions more will die in war.

As for Zionism, it is largely a secular movement within Judaism that is rapidly running out of steam. It has accomplished almost all it set out to do (bringing millions of Jews home to Israel and making Israel the central place in Judaism, instead of New York) and now it is destroying itself. But the Jewish entity here will not be destroyed, only transformed.

Concerned Citizen: Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. That is what I said, and that is what I meant. PERIOD.

Finally, I do not like the idea of recommending the destruction of Teheran. But the bottom line is that at this point, the regime ruling there is devoted to the erasure and the destruction of this country and the people living in it. The positives of the Persian empire in the behavior of Khoresh and Daryush are ancient history.

Two solutions present themselves: one is lying down and allowing our enemies to kill us - and the Iranian Islamic Republic is one of our enemies that has already tried to kill us via its puppets in Lebanon, HizbAllah. The other is to destroy our enemy in Teheran and make sure that never again does Persia present a threat to the Semitic peoples of west Asia, Jews and Arabs.

BTW, just for everybody reading, I have asserted before that it does not matter w3hich regime rules in Iran; it will want nuclear weapons as a matter of national pride. You've seen in the comments above a measure of that national pride asserting itself, regardless of the particular orientations of the Iranians writing...

I thought I would give this a try, since everybody is jumping to answer me...

עברית קלה

It works! The comment medium carries Hebrew!

i agree with arash and kiumars # 58 and 59.Edmund Roche #1,Arch Conservative #2,RedTard #5,Eaken # 16, Bliffle # 27 and 48.A Concerned Citizen # 47 amd 48. and some other comments that provide and suggest peace instead of a non-solution endless war, if you agree with me let me know.and BTW dave ,trust me i know my report hasn't been changed abit. it's the same draft that i published.

Ruvy,

You are the fool up until and only until the point where you invent a nuclear bomb that can target only Arabs who were educated in Wahabi Madrassas.

You are no better than those you want to Nuke. Good Riddance to your thoughts and decayed soul.

Defender, that article has been edited thousands of times. Let me guess - your Wikipedia login is 'PalestineRemembered' - an active participant in the 'Israel' entry who was banned from editing it any further because of bias.

Dave

Ruvy it is not a matter of national pride. But, it is a matter of national survival. Comments of people like you, prove it more than ever that Iran needs nuclear detrrance.

By the way Ruvy, are you sure a few of those Shahab-3, Shahab-3s or long range X-55 cruise missiles are not tipped with nuclear war heads? Iran has a sattelite in the orbit, using it as early warning system. With the first evidence of a massive Israeli attack,then you know what. I advice you to look at debka web site and read about Iran's last military exercise and what Uzi Rubin said.

Putting more sanctions on Iran is like taking a Homeless person's home away? It makes no sense, Iran has been under United States sanctions for 28 years, Now OK the ones you talk about are world sanctions, Bullshit, they cen get everything through the Black Market, plus their neighbors don't want to lose their business with Iran either, Take UAE for example, It's the re-export destination for Billons of dollars worth of goods to Iran. At a time when America needs all the help it can get to get out of this Iraq shit, sanctionning Iran will only cause more trouble, I mean they are already beggining to cause enough trouble in Iraq just imagine what they'll do when the sanctions get serious! Patriotic Idiots.

Bird of Paradise, there is a war in the middle east. But, nobody is innocent. American/Israeli interference in Iran's Kurdestan province has been started since 1979. Even before Iran start meddling in southern Lebonon.
More than 45 Radio and TV channels are broadcasting toward Arab minority in Iran's Khuzestan province. Stimuulating them for riots and independence. Almost, all of them are coming from Canada, England, USA and Iraq.
American/Israeli stimulating Sistan-Baluchestan province in southern Iran. Also, stimulating Azerbijan in north.
They try brainwash all these ethnic minorities against Persians (called Fars by Iranians).
Passing oil pipelines through Iran by the former soviet republics were blocked. Gas pipeling to India was blocked. You named it against Iran, they did it.
They threaten Iran with military invasion, sometimes daily. Maniacs like Ruvy in Israel even threaten nuclear attack.
You don't understand these are all what Iranian regime wants to hear. It is like getting energy from these. We, the Iranian people, are and will suffering from these sanctions, interferences and possible military invasions AND we will not forget.

Ruvy, as far as I know, what characters a computer will display is dependent on the fonts installed. Pleased as I am for you, please do remember that this is an English language site...

Cyrus "the Great,"

"By the way Ruvy, are you sure a few of those Shahab-3, Shahab-3s or long range X-55 cruise missiles are not tipped with nuclear war heads?"

I didn't suddenly discover the Iranian missile threat to my country from BoP's article. Try reading this article on the Iranian Missile threat that I wrote last year here at Blog Critics Magazine.

I'm fully aware of the Iranian satellite in orbit. I fully expect an Iranian attack on this nation to be equal or worse than HizbAllah's "itty bitty rocket assault" last July that crippled the northern third of this country. I expect this attack to come whether the United States or Israel attempts to defang the nuclear claws that Iran insists on growing. The reasons are explained in this article on Ahmadinejad's messianic politics, which I also authored here at Blog Critics Magazine. This item came into my e-mail box from WorldNet Daily on the possible appearance of the Mahdi in the spring.

I can see Tel Aviv on a clear day from the trampiada at the entrance to town. I fully expect to see fires of war arising from there in the not too distant future. I do not recommend destruction of Teheran out of maniacal hatred. But I can see only a future of war and death coming from the east...

Ruvy,
Iran has equipped the Hizbollah with Z2 missiles which carry about 1360 Ibs war head and Tel Aviv in range. But, they did not give permission to fire them despite Hizbollah insisting on using them. This should show you and others of Iran's responsibitily. Iran's armed forces are positioned defensively. Nuclear weapon will be deterrant and the trigger of program was use of chemical weapon by Iraq in 1980s war.

Ruvy,
As far as I know, most Iranians beleive Ahmadinejad is delusional. He has a big mouth which works against Iranian's national interest. But, plicy of sanctions and military threat only consolidate his position. His regime thrive with foreign threat especially from big powers. But, Iran's power system does not let him to do whatever he wants. Iran has the ability to hit Israel hard right now. But, basic concept in Iran's regime is that we are the chosen nation for return of Mahdi. So, country should survive and progress until then. This is the reason Iran's technological progress is 2nd to Israel in the region. Iran will not start any war for above reason. But, will respond harshly to any invasion.

"....most Iranians believe Ahmadinejad is delusional. He has a big mouth which works against Iranian's national interest."

Cyrus "the great",

It is easy to maintain a belief in a messiah or redeemer if his coming is in the distant future, at an unknown and/or unspecified date.

The author of this article, Bird of Paradise, when not wearing his fathered nom de plume, is a Christian pastor. He honestly believes in the eventual return of Jesus as his messiah. But if someone in his congregation told him he had dreamt of seeing Jesus walking down Mauna Loa and added that in the dream he had seen a newspaper on the stands dated 5 February 2007, that probably would be a bit too much for even him.

There is a very strong tradition that says that all the work of the Jewish messiah will be done by the year 5790 on the rabbinic calendar. Five hundred years ago, this was an easy thing to maintain. But the rabbinic year 5790 is just 23 years away. So now we can see the believers on the one side, and those who mumble "I believe in full faith in the coming of the messiah" without really meaning it on the other, and in addition, we see the secular Jews who laugh altogether at all this as just so much stupid nonsense.

I suspect that the Shia in Iran break down in much the same way. After all, Ahmadinejad is talking about not 23 years in the future, but a few months. I'm sure many of the high placed mullahs there laugh in their sleeves at Ahmadinejad.

I work under the assumption that Ahmadinejad is not just a big-mouthed clown but someone who honestly believes in what he is saying, and in addition, has solid reason to have such beliefs.

This is because I too, believe in the imminent coming of the messiah, and believe that the Almighty is working things so that destiny and the world's attention will more and more focus on Jerusalem. But such beliefs require a recognition that the universe as we know it and as we are used to it may change in radical ways that most of us are unprepared for, much less willing to understand. Hence, your line quoted above.

You cannot afford to rule out the possibility that Ahmadinejad may be onto something real, even if what he forecasts is not necessarily the messianic redemption the rest of us who do believe expect...

it's true - we're not prepared for the subjugation of the earth by the grays (which anyone with properly trained reason must see is imminent)

evidence is everywhere

Ahmadinejad has said many other things which cause us to beleive he is delusional. I was not reffering to his beleives about Messiah or Mahdi. I beleive in God, but do not share same about world's destiny as you. I wish peace, health and success for every one. It is cleare fundementalism is the same no matter which side you are.

"Ahmadinejad has said many other things which cause us to believe he is delusional.

Aside from denying the murder of millions of Jews, could you give some examples?

[Entire comment deleted]

An attack on Iran would create absolute hell in Iran and the world.

If you think that just because Iranians don't like their government they wouldn't retaliate to their country being bombed than your as naive as those who thought Saddam had WMD and bringing democracy to Iraq would be easy.

Also, Iran is not an imminent threat to anyone. It supports the Shia government in Iraq and has recently given it a $1 Billion loan. It has given it hundreds of millions of dollars in aid because it is not in Iran's interest to have a failed state next door.

A democratic Iraq is in Iran's interests because Iraq is a Shia nation and democracy means peace between the two Shia nations.

This "Iran is funding the insurgency" is garbage peddled by the pro-war propagandists. Sunnis in US allied countries like Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia are funding the insurgency.

When will the warmongers give up lying?

to ruvy and bird of paradise:
no offense guys but i really admire what defender said on his comments and specially on comment # 49.that was a sharp thing to say. i really want to know who is behind the mask of the defender, and cyrus the great , how do you know that defender is an iranian?( according to comment # 83)

i agree with defender, he is a true defender. and i want to let you all know that an attack on iran will do no good, it'll just worsen the situation more than it already is .

and who the hell is defender anyway? and what does it matter? he is a loser.

i'm with defender to the end and i'm an american citizen and i couragely tell ruvy to go to hell. way to go defender. nice comments, and bythe way i know defender he is the reall author of the article for your records.

defender, go defender, boy how much do i want to know who he is and what's his reall name.

oh defender is my hero altough i haven't seen his body yet but i'm sure i will one day. lol. so he is like a hero but under a mask and unknown but the only thing about him is that he is a high temper guy. he should be awarded for his comments. [Personal contact info deleted]
i love to know you.
love.
britney.

I find all this amusing. When my adversaries sink to the level of screeching baboons (comment #88 - the fellow who "couragely" tells me to go to hell) it all gets laughable.

Defender, it appears that you are emerging as the "Daredevil" of this particular comment thread, complete with a mosh pit of admirers (comments #83, #85, #86, #88, #89 & #90). Will you remove your mask for your adoring public?

Cyrus "the great" - I'm still waiting for an answer to my question at comment #82.

Ruvy,
Him being delusional is not my message. I'm trying to inform you that he is not in position of making important decision. But, since u r very curious, he felt that he was surrounded by some kind of light when he was giving speech in UN. Denial of Holacast is another one which you already mentioned. His defeat in local election should be a prove of his falling papularity.

comment #83 is not from original Cyrus the Great. Please, stop using my code name!!

Cyrus, I have deleted the content of comment #83 and the forging of your name.

Christopher Rose
Blogcritics Comments Editor

"I work under the assumption that Ahmadinejad is not just a big-mouthed clown but someone who honestly believes in what he is saying, and in addition, has solid reason to have such beliefs.
This is because I too, believe in the imminent coming of the messiah."
This is definition of delusion: false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence.

Ruvy,
I beleive in Mahdi or Messiah too. But, there is a high suspicion that Ahmadinejad belongs to Hojjatieh cult. Contrary to traditional beleive of shiete to passively wait for return of Mahdi, they beleive with provoking war and chaos, we can expedite it! They were banned to get to power in government in Khomeini era. Even, today Ahmadinejad hesitates to reveal his connection to this cult. Now, threats to Iran, sanctions and even invasion, only will strengthen position of this people. Please, tell your government in Tel Aviv, leave us alone. LEAVE IRAN ALONE. We will take care of this regime if you leave us alone. If you invade, we have to defend our land and people.

Thanks Chris.

Cyrus,

You are going to have to make up your mind here. Either belief in the arrival of the messiah is the sign of delusional belief or it isn't.

But to your more interesting observation about Ahmadinejad belonging to an extreme cult in the Shia religion. This is something I was only vaguely aware of. Thank you. Presumably, the Mahdi whom Ahmadinejad was supposedly in contact with according to Ameri's analysis is a member of this cult too.

Unfortunately the criminal regime in Jerusalem listens to its masters in Washington and Brussels, not to us Israelis. There is nothing I can say to them at all. They do not give a damn. And your regime keeps issuing its death threats. I hate to say this, because in all truth, I think Iranians and Israelis should be friends, not enemies, but until someone restrains this man Ahmadinejad's mouth, every Israeli will be looking for the air force here to do you folks in. I'm speaking as a friend who prefers to concentrate on destroying the Wahhabi.

I should add that Jewish prophecy for centuries has warned that the "king of the south" mentioned in the book of Daniel would be an alliance headed by Persia, and that is exactly what appears to be shaping up.

It does not look good at all.

Let me clear my position about Messiah. I think the way Ahmadinejad is beleiving in it is delusional. Otherwise, as I said before, I'm a beleiver. My prediction is that Iran will emerge as secular power. An strategic friend for Israel. But, I hope the west will not be successful to use Israel as an excuse to take over Iran's energy resources. Just tell your people be patient.

hey guys it'd been a long time since the last comment of defender, what happend to him, why is he not commenting anymore? defener if u still read these comments tell me are you scared ? then why you don't comment anymore? ruvy of the jerusalem what about you? do u have any news from the defender? i'm curious to know who he is.
he is so mysterious and secret.

Re defender: If nobody knows who "defender" is, then why do so many of you know that defender is a "he?" Just wondering.

to bird of paradise:
of course defender is a he, read his comments again, you'll know and understand why.

ruvy of the jerusalem:
why didn't you answer marton's comment # 100? we are all waiting.

For those in "the defender's" little mosh pit. I have no clue who the dude is or where he is. I stopped changing other people's diapers when my sons outgrew them...

Now, will the real guy faking the name Cyrus the Great please stand up? The real Cyrus the Great can't. He died over two millennia ago.

Ruvy,
I used this code name to remind you and other jews of how much Iranians(Persians) play positive role in your hx. Now, most possibly on of your friends (he called himself David, once) is trying hard to undermind my comments with sending fake comments under my code name. This is silly. By the way, blood of Cyrus the Great is running in the body of millions of Iranians. Persia is rising again. Like a phenix. NOBODY can stop us.

Ruvys right about Wahabbism and Saudi Arabia. I worked in the American prison system for 25 yrs. and saw the influence first hand. Also check and see what influence they tried to perpetuate in the Serb/Croat war.Also to the defender: you would be more credible if you controlled your mouth.Question:If the U.S. left Iraq today,right now, would they leave us alone? I think not.They(or whatever you want to call them)have a very serious agenda people. Anyone willing to strap bombs on them should be taken quite serious.Don't you think? Peace.

To the real Cyrus:

Not to worry, Chris (or any editor) can tell which one of you is the real one by the IP number of your computer.

Thanks Clavus.

hey cyrus, why can't you take a hard joke? you got all angry for no reason it was just a little joke and it was funny. :)) defender in peace.
or whatever, later dudes.

[Please confine yourself to using just one name or your IP address will be banned. Thanks. Comments Editor]

i'm back due to the faithful people who noticed my empty seat.to bird of paradise:
the government of iran either good or bad,is up to the decision that the citizen's of that nation will make,it does not include you and or anywhom else. the peaceful use of nuclear energy is willing to be used in positive purposes and will not be satatused for any inapropriate matters. iran is fourth oil-trading country in the world and cutting ties with other countries and urging them to stop trading with iran will not block iran from it's nuclear enrichment program. syra has strong both political and economical ties with iran to the point that president ahmadinejad said that even if united states tried, couldn't cut the relationship between syra and iran. and from some reliable sources iran is expecting an attack from quatar, where the united states largest and strongest millitary camp is based. there has been rough disagreements between united states and quatar recently and they may remove the millitary base off the quatar soon. and russia has recently sold 29 Tor-M1 missile systems to iran for 1.4 million dollars( 1.06 billion euros) and the air defence systems are being stationed around iran's civilian nuclear sites which are high ranges and will automaticaly lock any air craft and destroy it according to ITAR-TASS.and the head of the weapons maker engineering design bureau of china has made a recent contract to iran for it's oil exchanged by mass-destructive weapons and high performanced arms. with all that i cleared, you should know by now that iran's power is not a threat to any regional country and it's power is at service of region's peace. by imposin insecurity and ethnic clashes in iraq, united states just wants to strenthen their presence in the region. the U.N. resolution against iran's atomic work has no validity for iranians.it is illegal and politicaly motivated. it is up to the government to decide whether it wants to pull out of the NPT.i, defender am officialy inviting you to cooperate and let iran makes it's own decisions because it is not up to us to decide either iran has the right to produce fuel cycles. supreme leader ayatollah khameney has the final say in nuclear and other matters. iran is a free country and will not let any OUTSIDER force to solve the coflicts for them. iranian nation is wise and will stick to it's nuclear work and is ready to defend it completely.
best regards, defender

Defender,
The way you talk, look like that you are one of regime elements. Do you notice, you are contradicting yourself?!
Look at this:
"is up to the decision that the citizen's of that nation will make"
VS
"supreme leader ayatollah khameney has the final say in nuclear and other matters"
Are u defender of the regime or Iranian nation?

David,
Peace. I'm happy you came out of your shell. I was not angry, but got annoyed!

Defender, Welcome back. Your comments and arguments are welcome but please, keep your comments clean and civil . . . otherwise you undermine any respect your commments might otherwise receive. Thank you.

In your most recent commnet you make some rather bold claims. You have not, however, responded to any of the points I made in my original post, namely:

That Iran is funding, supplying and coordinating at least some significant amount of the Shi'ite violence in Iraq;

That Iranian government and military officers (some with diplomatic passports...one of which was alleged to have been issued with a false identity) were captured in two separate raids in the company of Iraqi Shi'ites known to be active in commiting acts of terrorism against other Iraqis (as well as US troops)?

Also, that funds and weapons are being channeled by Iran to Hizbullah in both southern Lebanon and Gaza . . . and that in Gaza, those who are able to fire rockets into Israel receive cash rewards?

Also, released just two days ago, that documents found with the captured Iranian officials in Iraq included funding and support strategies for Sunni and al-Qaeda terrorist/insurgent groups as well as Shia?

I suppose you will dismiss these matters as lies concocted by Israel and the US. But, the Gaza information came from inside Gaza itself, from the Palestinians who are being supplied by Iran!

I would also beg to suggest that there was little or not serious thought of an attack or invasion against Iran until it began to advertise its nuclear program and violate the international treaties it had signed that subjected their nuclear program to international scrutiny.

The reason Iran feels threatened (and it truly is being threatened) is because it has been messing around in neighboring countries blowing people up, shooting rockets into their towns and ensuring that as many Iraqis and Americans are killed with their weapons and surrogate troops as possible.

In light of Syria's occupation and control of a supposedly sovereign nation and its alliance with Iran in supporting Hizbullah, etc., I should think that an Iran/Syrai alliance would be even one more reason for the United States to isolate Iran from the world of civilized nations with a strict embargo.

Thanks for adding that one to my list.

Bird of Paradise,
I'm not a supporter of regime. But, suppose your claims are true.
How about US/Israeli support of Kurds in Western Iran. This has resulted hundreds dead and injured because of bombings and other terrorist acts.
How about support for Arab minorities in Khuzestan in southerns Iran. They planted bombs several times in civilan areas. They did multiple assacinations.
How about support for Baloochies in eastern Iran. Those who smuggle drugs and shut down Iranian army helicopters with stingers. Kidnapping passengers. Raping women.
Who gave Saddam chemical weapons?
Well, maybe they have learned that the best defence is offense.

to dear cyrus the great: i am truly a defender of the people and nation and not the government, but if people really show any disloyalty to the current government or the regime they have enough will to change it for better like they did before, but cutting iran's ties with other countries will just take people's peace and make it worse and harder for them to live, due to the history we have a good example pf this about thirty years ago. when iran and dr. mosadegh were trying to nationalize the oil and russians refused to buy the oil so did the rest of the countries, russians even refused to pay for their old debts and the government of iran was miserable at that time, that angered the nation and they knew they couldn't live like that so they stood up and a revolution took place.
and to dear bird of paradise:
we still don't know for sure that i it was the government of iran who supplid palestinians with weapons ar shooted rockets in iraq. I have a question for you, how is it possible for president bush to take out the government and change it for better without killing at least hundreds of unarmed or armed civilians and without firing missles? there can be easier ways, islamic republic of iran can oath not to make any nuclear weapons or take advantage of the right of having nuclear thechnology against any country or nation at all, only then if government of iran violate those terms and laws united states and u.n. and the security council is determind to act. and cyrus the great, well of course people make the decision and the supreme leader is a messenger of the people and he will tell the world what decision has the heir of cyrus has made. at some points I agree with you that ayatolah khamenei is (i'm sorry to say this guys) an asshole but he has never led iran down. and president ahmadinejad is a little dramatic, yes i agree but let's not forget that he is one of the most efficient presidents in iran's history and he has made a lot of positive improvements unill now. tell me cyrus have you or any of you ever lived in iran for long? well i have live in iran for 5 years and in summers there hasn't been a single week that the lights go off and electricity goes out for hours inside of the great capital city, tehran. and this happend every single year. you say that iran is too dangerous to have nuclear energy use due to it's violent actions, then perhaps you should find a resolution for the electricity conflict too. if u.n. and united states decide what's best for iran then maybe they should find a solution for each and everyone of the conflicts that are going on in iran such as : the daily heavy traffic, unemployment, drug addiction, proustituion, smuggling and alot more problems that iran and its people are facing right now. what security council and IAEA are saying in a simple say is: iran can't have nuclear powers but they have the right to do something about their electrical power but what ahmadinejad is doing is telling and explaining to them that in order to get to the electrical powers they need fuel cycles and nuclear system.it's like saying for example you are stuck in a cold place and you could die of cold and someguy just tells you OH NO YOU ARE DANGEROUS YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY WOOD BECAUSE YOU CAN HIT ME WITH THAT STICK BUT YOU NEED FIRE AND YOU CAN HAVE FIRE JUST NOT THE WOOD!!

Gentlemen,

It is clear that those who seek to defend Iran/Persia on this comment thread are not of the mindset of the crazed mullahs who scream "satan" at America and Israel.

In an article I wrote for Blog Critics Magazine last March about the difficulties of the Iranian government that it was facing in controlling the country, I quoted the website of Daniel Dana, who heads an opposition organization to the Islamic Republic.

In a presentation he made to the Root & Branch Association two or three years ago, he presented his own personal vision of a renewed Persia reclaiming its own heritage. In his eyes, since the Sunni Moslems claim that Shia Islam is false, Persians should walk away from Islam altogether, returning to Zoroastrianism, or converting to Christianity or Judaism or whatever, just so long as they left the chains of Islam. I want to emphasize that this is his vision of a Persia reclaiming its ancient greatness. It is not for nothing that I think that any regime ruling Persia would want nuclear weapons. Dana pointed out, as does Cyrus above, that a secular Iran armed with nuclear weapons could well be a strategic ally of a Jewish entity here.

These are not likely views you'll find on his website, as it has the job of rallying students who may be satisfied to be "secular" Shia, or who may be satisfied with a low level of observance of Islam. I wish to emphasize that what I've explained above is his own personal long range vision, ands not that of the organization he represents.

BoP,

I must re-iterate that sanctions against Iran would only be a joke. It is not the job of the Americans to contain Iran. The more they try to involve their military in the affairs of this region, the more they bring themselves closer to being brought down by the other powers on the planet, who yap like wolves at America's heels and seek for every opportunity to bring her down. Russia and China are presently using the Ahmadinejad regime as its proxy. Ahmadinejad, entranced with the role of bringing the Shia messiah to the Temple Mount to be presented to the world at the forefront of a renewed Persian empire, is lapping up the Russian and Chinese help like a cat lapping up milk.

He is being set up to fall, as was the Pharaoh of Egypt 3,300 years ago...

It would be preferable that he and the Islamic regime fell together, but he will fall and he will not succeed.

Defender,
You asked me: "tell me cyrus have you or any of you ever lived in iran for long? well i have live in iran for 5 years"
Yes, sir. I have lived in Iran. I'm the voice of millions of Iranians. I have served in parts of Iran that you can't even imagine. I spend years in military zone of Iran/Iraq border. I know things about war that has never been written or said in public.
Ahmadinejad is a liability for Iran. He will be named in history books as the one of the worst leaders Iran has ever have. About electricitt. Things have been changed and Iran is progressing rapidly. Not because of people like Ahmadinejad who spend his time to held stupid conferences like the Holocost denial. But, because of highly educated and hard worker true Iranians. Now, we are exporting electricity to neighboring countries like Iraq, Turkey, Afghanestan, Armenia and....
Khamenei has let us down in not making Ahmadinejad quit. If Khomeini was alive, I'm sure he would crush Ahmadinejad mouth multiple times by now. People are praying to make Ahmadinejad mouth shot.
By the way, we want the bomb as the deterrant. If you have ever seen one of the victims of chemical weapon attach by Iraqis, you would understand how badly we need deterrance. So, nobody ever think of using WMD against our army and civilians.

iran like all other countries have the irreversible and national right to use all the peace full technology as they need.Iran has the fuel cycle and very soon will push the button to produce nuclear fuel production for industrial uses. the iranian people have taken their decision and will in no way pay attention to empty cries of the materialists and the bullying of the decadent powers. i'm still not informed why avigdor liberman,israeli minister of strategic affairs keep calling on u.n. and the security council for a millitary action against iran and he highly recommends and the letter that he recently sent to u.n. to impose harshest and the most extensivest sanctions against iran the world has ever seen