Blogcritics Comments on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Comment by Christopher Rose on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:52:48 EST

Harry: To debunk religion is not to strip any individual of any of their rights nor does it mean that people who don't believe in god lack spirituality...

Comment by Harry on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:39:29 EST

Richard Dawkins talks about De-religionalizing the world. This guy is stupid or what! Religions are viruses... WTF!?! Where does this guy get his balls to endorse the means of stripping an individuals right to freedom of religion and faith... this so reminds me of the purpose of concentration camps. Just because he is not intune with spirituality, doesn't make it right for him or any other atheist to preach their hate filled words against others who believe in a deity. Dawkins is a mis-informed and very prejudiced.

Comment by Harry on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:30:27 EST

Sam Harris is a retarted hate monger. He endorses "good war" and "good torture". Sick F**K! Why do you people read this junk and skim over his hate filled propaganda. WTF peopele?!?!

Comment by Natalie Bennett on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Wed, 1 Nov 2006 18:22:57 EST

This article has been selected for syndication to Advance.net, which is affiliated with newspapers around the United States. Nice work!

Comment by V.M.R. on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:56:46 EST

Leslie, I've been doing that for many years...and from every angle. Thanks.

Comment by Paul Roy on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:52:07 EST

Nice review Tim. I just started reading the book last night. "End Of Faith" was one of the best books I have read on the subject, and this one is a great follow up, although extemely short. Sam Harris has made several radio and TV appearences lately, and he is as good of a speaker as he is a writer. I am amazed at how well he is able to articulate his positions and challenges when dealing with theists without getting frustrated beyond belief. He has several links to some recent radio and TV appearances on his website that I recommend checking out.

Comment by Leslie Bohn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:35:09 EST

OK. Perhaps you'll spend some time thinking about my questions, and answering them for yourself.

Comment by V.M.R. on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:25:40 EST

Gentlemen, all thought, word, and deed regarding Jehovah, the Almighty God, and His Son Jesus Christ, hinge on faith. You have either been called by the Holy Spirit and have faith in Christ, or you have not, and have none. Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. That does not mean that believers should not explain Christ to non-believers, far from it! But it does mean that it is the province of the Holy Spirit to actually convince a non-believer to believe. So, Christians, don't despair and don't curse the darkness. You've done your part here. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old gained approval. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26 considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.

Comment by Nigel on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:59:40 EST

Well actually God didn't leave us to our own devices he gave us written instuction recorded by various inspired people througout the ages. In relation to the Second Law comment - that's why I put the question mark. I could not recall exactly if that was the correct point, for sake of clarity I will review my notes and re-post the correct/full explanation. To Leslie - I don't see any point continuing - you have your view and it is clear nothing I can say will change it or have you re-consider your position. I feel I have presented my case, perhaps not as eloquently as some, but never the less presented. We make our own choices. Thanks again.

Comment by Leslie Bohn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:46:19 EST

Nigel: We're done?

Comment by Christopher Rose on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:40:28 EST

Nigel, the most baffling part of your mostly, to me at least, incomprehensible comment above is where you bring in the Second Law of Thermodynamics as a reason against evolution. As that law says "The second law of thermodynamics is an axiom of nature regarding the directional flow of heat in relation to work and which accounts for the phenomenon of irreversibility in thermodynamic systems. The most common enunciation of the second law of thermodynamics, as stated originally by Rudolf Clausius, is: Heat cannot of itself pass from a colder to a hotter body. Clausius also stated this law in the following form: The entropy of an isolated system not at equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value. The second law is most applicable to macroscopic systems. For example, when one part of an isolated system interacts with another part, energy will tend to distribute equally among the accessible energy states of the system. As a result, given time, the system will reach a state of thermodynamic equilibrium, at which point the entropy will have a maximum value and the deviation of free energy will be greater than or equal to zero." From Wikipedia. I can't actually relate that to evolution so please fill in the blanks for me. As I said above in #15, I've a simple approach to the issue. You believe a god created all this and then left us to our own devices or you believe amazing stuff can evolve given enough time. I find the former answer unsatisfying on emotional, spiritual and practical grounds whereas the latter more accurately helps me understand the awe inspiring universe I find myself in.

Comment by Nigel on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:39:50 EST

Thanks for the discussion, neither of us have managed to convince the other but is it not great that we have been created with free will to decide for ourselves, just like those that will come across these pages in their own search for truth. I wish you all the best with your continuing search/discovery as I am sure you do me with mine.

Comment by Leslie Bohn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:35:12 EST

I agree that the universe is amazingly complex, and beauitful, but why is this attributable only to a personal god? Evidence? there is a beginning to the universe that supports an external creator. What is it? I'm not sure I understand your explanations about evolution, but I assure you that evolution does not suggest that species adapt in a "random" fashion. This is central to the concept. They adapt by, instead, the process of evolution. Also, the big bang theory doesn't attempt to explain the origins of the universe. As to your last statement: To not believe in god requires no faith at all. Faith is belief without evidence, and the world has no need for that.

Comment by Nigel on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:18:55 EST

There are absolutes that the universe operates under, it is not random - logical laws of operation have no basis, no matter how reasonable they may be, except from a personal God. There is a definate beginning, you may call it the big bang, but there is a beginning to the universe that supports an external creator. The complexity of creations in nature do not attest to "macro evolution", take for example Humans, the ability to fly by birds. Thousands, upon thousands of "random" and "beneficial" mutations is what is required to not believe in a creator - yet science fails to display beneficial mutations and the whole concept of things evolving from simple life forms to more complex life forms goes against the second law of Thermodynamics right? I openly admit I can not do this topic justice and argue to intellectually dizzy heights, but for me there is more than enough evidence arounds us that testifies an awesome creator exists and to believe otherwise (in random chance, and macro evolution) takes a lot more faith to believe in that not believe in.

Comment by Leslie Bohn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:28:26 EST

The mere nature of the universe testifies to an awesome God How?

Comment by Nigel on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:13:21 EST

Being a Christian, requires more than an intellectual knowledge,that is only 50% of the game, the other is a personal relationship with Christ. An Atheist can not appreciate (as posted above by V.M.R) this personal relationship. Denying Christianity purely on the basis of intellect is misguided, just as accepting Christianity purely on feeling and emotions is also. It is a complete deal and like any relationship requires growth with both the head and the heart through communication, understanding, learning and an ever deepening love for the one we are in a relationship with. The mere nature of the universe testifies to an awesome God and the recording of the scriptures, in particular Genesis 1 - 11 provide an incredible insight as to where Man fits in the cosmic setting, why we are here and how a once perfect creation groans until Christ returns.

Comment by Christopher Rose on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 06:23:13 EST

Surely it's much simpler than that? Either there is a god that created everything and requires faith and worship or there isn't. It seems pretty simple to my way of thinking.

Comment by Leslie Bohn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:58:15 EST

Mr. Winn: I'm really not sure why you're upset. I said I studied and read and know religious people because you told me I don't understand the religious side of things. This was evidence that I do. You feel this implies that I think "all theists are irrational animals who've never actually researched the subject or read Dawkins or Harris." Um, that's not there, and I don't believe it. My uncle is a PhD and deacon in the Catholic Church (he's like, you know, smart). Do you think that if I don't specifically mention that not all people agree with my views, then I am being arrogant? Do you need more "IMHOs?" Many people automatically brand as "arrogant" anyone who disagrees with them. I'm not arrogant; this is a forum to express my views. Fact is, I have spent a lot of my life searching and learning about this stuff, like many people, and I'm open to any and all explanations about the world. I've been to ashrams and listened to priests and rabbis. I find science and reason to be the best direction for my life, and the best basis for trying to navigate its mysteries and miseries. I have no idea what happens after you die. If someone out there does purport to know, that, to me, is pretty arrogant. Especially whe their answer invariably includes my being cast into everlasting torment involving fire.

Comment by V.M.R. on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:37:44 EST

Dave wrote, "...we should hate the christian bigot, not the basic tenets of the faith." If you hate the sin and not the sinner, as do Christians who try their best to be Christ-like, you would love the bigot regardless of their faith or lack of it. Leslie, please note that I did not debunk the book.

Comment by Phillip Winn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:36:08 EST

Sigh. I said I wouldn't continue this, but you've managed to woo me. :-/ See, it's interesting to me that you say I'm hostile. In comment #4, in the paragraph that beings by saying that you "raise an excellent point," I mentioned that organized religion and humanism both have lists of millions of dead people to answer for, and suggested that this simple fact seems like it ought to lead to greater humility. You responded by labeling the beliefs of billions as "awful, completely untrue, inherently ruinous" and contrasted yourself as "rational" with those who hold such views, implying then that they are all "irrational." Is this not seen as hostile by you? I don't think it's just a rhetorical trick to say that most people are blindly loyal and don't realize how completely and totally they've bought into their own views! I am quite surprised by your apparently inability to understand what is really a very simple and easy point I was trying to make back in comment #4. Yes, I think you've finally hit it -- sort of -- in that what I mean is that people who agree with Dawkins agree with Dawkins. People who don't, don't. People who agree with Dawkins find his statement compelling and people who don't, don't. Yes, indeed, this is all very basic and simple -- except that you suggested that his arguments are "difficult to argue against" which seems to sugest that you weren't thinking of this point we both agree is so very simple I wasted my time making it! You disagree with religion in general. I understand that. You've read books. I get that, too. You believe that you're smart and rational. Again, I comprehend this. Here's the thing: Many theists disagree with humanism. Many of them have also read books. Many of them are smart and rational. Your friends and family may or may not fall into this category, but many people surely do. These people reject atheism as wronghead, and possibly ruinious to society, as well as obviously catastrophic (from their perspective) on a personal level. I believe you understand all this, but you can't seem to see how your statement practically reek of a sort of arrogance that implies you don't *really* understand this. That you believe all theists are irrational animals who've never actually researched the subject or read Dawkins or Harris. Whether you really believe these things or not I'm not completely certain, but that is certainly the impression you've left with me, and I suspect with many others. At least many others who don't disagree with you. Dawkins' label of "brights" is one of those things which makes perfect sense to people on one side of the label and is both repugnant and silly at the same time to people on the other. Is anything served by making lists of smart people on both sides of the issues at hand? Um, no. Of course, for standing up for reason and rationality and consistent treatment of people regardless of their views, I've been branded as hostile, though you were first to negatively characterize others. Isn't that interesting? I say it again -- and this is true in politics, in religion, and in most areas of life -- few of us are capable of objectively measuring ourselves according to the same rules we use for others. And now I really will resist any further urges to comment. Thanks for the conversation!

Comment by Leslie Bohn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:17:13 EST

Mr. Winn: Your statement about "difficult to argue with" says, essentially, that to those who agree with Dawkins, his arguments are solid. That is really saying not much at all, was my point. Yes, I do understand the opposing viewpoint. As I mentioned, many of my family and friends are very religious. I've also read extensively on the subject, and studied theology in school. Read the Vedas, the big Buddhist philosophers, the Bible, the Koran. It's easy to avoid supporting one's arguments by stressing that one side just doesn't understand the other. I do understand, and I reject. Like I understand the Greek system of gods and I understand scientology and I understand alchemy. I reject them as wrongheaded. And, finally, I surely have made and expressed no assumptions about you at all, as a simple reading of my comments will show. Here's one assumption, which I base on your posts: You're pretty hostile.

Comment by Dave Nalle on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:36:02 EST

ne of the things I find so off-putting about many Christians is their firm certainty that their ideas (no matter how irrelevant or obscure) are so blindingly obviously true that only a determined fool could persist in unbelief. In other words, Christianity is a religion. Beliefs reached by pure faith tend to be absolute and overbearing, whether they be those of a religion or a political philosophy like socialism. Anyway, sounds like a good book. But do most of us really need a book to know all we need to know about the excesses of Christianity and other religions, or to understand that just as we should 'hate the sinner, not the sin' we should hate the christian bigot, not the basic tenets of the faith. dave

Comment by Phillip Winn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:26:13 EST

Leslie (#5), this is my last comment -- you can have the last word. 1. I didn't say that one who agrees with Dawkins would attempt to argue with him. I said that only someone who agrees with Dawkins would consider him difficult for anyone to argue with. Most people consider their own views to be the only possible rational explanation for anything, and the inability to consider otherwise is what most people identify as arrogance -- and foolishness. 2. Your earlier statement that Dawkins was difficult to argue with has already revealed that you don't really understand the viewpoints of theists, and your continued empty denouncements only underscore the point. It remains -- your assertions to the contrary notwithstanding -- difficult for either side to truly understand the other, and as long as people ignorantly believe otherwise, the impasse remains. 3. This is a (well-written) review of a book by Harris which I've not yet read, not an open forum to debate the merits of Dawkins' views. Those who have spent a couple of comments addressing the issues that divide theists and atheists have earned only scorn from you for not having read the book. Since I have not read the book either, how can I respond? For that matter, you've made some pretty remarkable assumptions about me. Lest one thing I'm an ogre for picking and choosing what to respond to, note that you haven't addressed Nigel nor V.M.R, or for that matter my additional comments about theism and humanism as related to cultural trends. I don't expect you to; I only note it for consistency's sake. A bit of unasked-for advice for you: One of the things I find so off-putting about many Christians is their firm certainty that their ideas (no matter how irrelevant or obscure) are so blindingly obviously true that only a determined fool could persist in unbelief. So far your statements have been just as shrill, just as unappealing, and just as fruitless for atheism. That's all. Thanks.

Comment by Leslie Bohn on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:04:06 EST

The two posters above prove that it is much easier to debunk a book if you haven't actually read it. Thanks for your views on the book, Nigel and VMR.

Comment by V.M.R. on Book Review — The Atheist Manifestos I: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:33:50 EST

Admittedly, I have not read Mr. Harris' books, though I will if they are available in my public library. I take issue with the statement in this review, "Yet both cannot be right and Christians who would demand "proof" from Muslims refuse to demand the same of their own religion." First, not all persons who purport to be "Christian" or to speak for Chrisitianity are Christian in the way that Jesus Himself would have wanted us to use the word. Second, since we know that objective "proof" of one's spiritual beliefs is impossible, we would never ask for proof of Muslim beliefs and never have. Christians might debate with Muslims at logical, moral, and spiritual levels, but the idea of requesting or submitting scientific "proof" is absurd. Third, there is overwhelming archaeological and academic evidence to support the Bible as history and to support everything stated about Jesus Christ. Note that "evidence" is not the same as "proof." For example, we have infinitely more and better evidence for what Jesus said and did than for what Aristotle said and did, but we have no "proof" of either one. Last, and least satisfying to atheists, is that Christian faith is confirmed as valid by the spiritual changes and events in a person's life after they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. The proof, in other words, is 100% subjective. We Christians can say, "Jesus changed me and my life, so I KNOW He lives." Each person must make a decision on what to do with scientific evidence combined with the subjective statements of witnesses to Jesus' power and love. I wonder if Mr. Harris even knows what the scientific and academic evidence says about Jesus? Guess I'll read the book and find out.