I assume this is in reference to purely physiological health of the human body?

I ask only because my yoga teacher (don't mock, at least not yet) told us in class that performing what is called the 'vibrating breath' or chanting stimulates endorphins or something similar (which apparently accounts for why some mentally unstable people chronically wail).

I've also heard the same thing about singing (like in a choir, or as a social activity on regular basis), the vibrations felt through the body again increases endorphins and even strengthens the immune system.

I don't have any academic references to back this up so I'm not claiming that it's 100% foolproof but I do think it has merit, particularly the latter point (from personal experience as a chronic depressive).

Hmm, so what do you think? Total baloney or time to join the people of Hy Brasil (from film Erik the Viking) singing their peaceful, happy lungs out?

Great analysis, Sal, very information-rich and timely, I'm sure, to exercise-types

snarky:
i have more faith in an intuitive/traditional theory/philosophy such as the one forwarded by your yoga instructor than i do in a theory that calls upon shoddy science for support.

add in the fact that the WBV platforms cost upwards of $5000 versus the costless nature of the yoga instructor's advice and it's a no brainer.

sing your ass off....perhaps literally....

sal m
I just came across your blogs last night and am amazed at the amount of hype surrounding this whole WBV thing. I am tending to lean in the direction that it is just that; hype!
In your first blog attracted the attention of some supposed GURU'S on WBV training such as Artur, D Leigha and a guy who supposedly was the formerproduct manager of Power Plate; Lloyd Shaw, who magically appeared after D Leigha seemed to be growing tired of the debate and made mention of him. But hey this is hyperspace, who knows who you are really talking to.
Anyway my debate is this: sal m has never used WBV and is relying on his epierience as a personal trainer and reasearch that does not completely add up to debunk the whole WBV theory. I think his argument would be more compelling if he were to actually test WBV for himself and report on the results. In a court of law you cannot prove something based soley on theory, you need credible witnesses.
Of all the posts made in previos blogs there has only been one negative expierience reported by OldGirl 518. Is there anyone else out there who has had a bad expierience with WBV therapy or has not seen any results??
Please! Let your stories be heard!

REITERATING:



I've watched Sal's Healthy Skeptic blog with much amusement as he attacks the concept of Whole Body Vibration and any researcher who has conducted a study that is not up to Sal's standards. (When did he become the great arbiter of such things anyway?) As Hypergravity's sales manager, I feel I have to speak up, since he has come out of nowhere and started attacking our company.

Sal, may I ask, what did we ever do to you?

First of all, repeatedly ridiculing spelling mistakes on our old website is in such poor taste. The gentleman who wrote the text on the old site is over 70 years old and speaks 7 languages, of which, English is his fifth. Call me when you've mastered even 2 languages, and then we'll discuss spelling errors.

It is true that we had put together a page that contained links to many studies that were performed with Whole Body Vibration platforms, but nowhere did we state an opinion on them. We merely have tried to show the public what studies are out there, warts and all. Yes there are good studies. Yes there are bad studies. Some of the studies, such as those performed by Galileo/Vibraflex are conducted on pivotal vibration devices which affect the body differently than the linear vibration units we make. They are not better or worse, they're only different. In fact, we only made reference to a couple studies on our Benefits page. I remember seeing one of them mentioned by a doctor on your previous page but I don't think you ever answered him/her and I don't have time to sift through the 100+ responses to check, so here it is again:

Effect of vibratory stimulation training on maximal force and flexibility.

Journal of Sports Science 1994 Dec;12(6):561-6.

Issurin VB, Liebermann DG, Tenenbaum G.

Ribstein Centre for Research and Sport Medicine Sciences, Wingate Institute, Wingate Post, Israel.

In this study, we investigated a new method of training for maximal strength and flexibility, which included exertion with superimposed vibration (vibratory stimulation, VS) on target muscles. Twenty-eight male athletes were divided into three groups, and trained three times a week for 3 weeks in one of the following conditions: (A) conventional exercises for strength of the arms and VS stretching exercises for the legs; (B) VS strength exercises for the arms and conventional stretching exercises for the legs; (C) irrelevant training (control group). The vibration was applied at 44 Hz while its amplitude was 3 mm. The effect of training was evaluated by means of isotonic maximal force, heel-to-heel length in the two-leg split across, and flex-and-reach test for body flexion. The VS strength training yielded an average increase in isotonic maximal strength of 49.8%, compared with an average gain of 16% with conventional training, while no gain was observed for the control group. The VS flexibility training resulted in an average gain in the legs split of 14.5 cm compared with 4.1 cm for the conventional training and 2 cm for the control groups, respectively. The ANOVA revealed significant pre-post training effects and an interaction between pre-post training and 'treatment' effects (P < 0.001) for the isotonic maximal force and both flexibility tests. It was concluded that superimposed vibrations applied for short periods allow for increased gains in maximal strength and flexibility.




This is a well designed study conducted not on the elderly but on 28 young, healthy, males. They even used a control group. (I'm sure it was because they didn't want to incur the wrath of Sal the great research design guru) Anyway, let's compare:

GROUP. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .ISOTONIC MAXIMAL STRENGTH
Vibration Training . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 49.8%
Conventional Training. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 16%
Control Group . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 0%

GROUP . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LEG SPLIT FLEXIBILITY
Vibration Training . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 14.5 cm
Conventional Training . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 4.1 cm
Control Group. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 2 cm

Now, let me make a big disclaimer. Although this research may strongly support the great potential that WBV has as a form of exercise, we are not trying to say (and never will say) that this should replace conventional exercise. Far from it! The more active people are, the better. The absolute fact that nobody can argue with is that WBV training makes your muscles do work. Period. And, if WBV is something that can motivate someone to get off the couch and get active again, GREAT!

Like I said, I have been following this blog for a while and I have come to admire Lloyd's candor from afar. He seems to be an honorable guy with a genuine interest in advancing public knowledge about WBV, while exposing the paranoid speculation (and often outright lies) of some in this industry who are less than scrupulous. He understands, as I do, that there is a need for much more research into the various applications of WBV, but let's make no mistake: there ARE documented health benefits to using WBV.

I know because I hear about them first-hand. Yes, my job is to sell a product, but I love what I do because it's a product I can believe in and I can honestly say I go to sleep at night knowing I helped people. Regardless of what any skeptics can say against a handful of Whole Body Vibration studies, I continue to get calls from people who love to tell me how their Hypergravity is helping them lose weight, or tone up, or relieve their fibromyalgia, or lower their blood pressure, or eliminate their plantar fasciitis, or just simply regain enough energy to play a full 18 holes of golf, and I could go on for hours! These people were SICK AND TIRED of being SICK AND TIRED because all their doctors knew to do was prescribe another pill to mask their symptoms instead of solve their problems! You have no idea how incredibly grateful they are. We become like part of their family. They send cards at Christmas or Hanukkah, and invite us to their kid's birthday parties. And we go!

And, Sal, no matter how much you try to dismantle other people's research, you can never--and I mean NEVER--take away what we have given to these people. Just because it is anecdotal, doesn't make it less real, and I DARE you to tell these mothers, fathers and grandparents that their stories--their struggles and their triumphs--are worthless and have no meaning! I dare you.

Christopher

P.S. Let's remember you STILL have never even tried one of these machines yourself.

In a court of law you cannot prove something based soley on theory, you need credible witnesses.

Scott, that's not even close to true. Those who are making extraordinary claims (the manufacturers of WBV devices) are the ones who need to prove their case. The research doesn't add up all right -- it doesn't add up in any way that that supports the manufacturers, that is!

On the one hand we have the science that everybody accepts, all of which says that WBV is useless. On the other hand we have claims made by people who either stand to profit from their claims (and are therefore heavily biased), or lack the knowledge or ability to perform controlled studies (to demonstrate, for example, that lunges while on a WBV are more effective than lunges alone). In the courtroom, which do you think is more compelling -- the big stack of science textbooks, or the sales manager?

Most varieties of snake oil are ones I've never tried, but I'm confident they're worthless.

Whole body vibration has thus far been proven valuable to only one small group of people: people who work for the manufacturers of whole body vibration equipment. Its value to this group of people has been established beyond all reasonable doubt.

The specious arguments such people use to support their claims strongly indicate they are the only ones who will ever profit from whole body vibration machines.

(Here's a hint: don't just brag about the number of languages your researcher knows. Hire somebody who is fluent in English to proofread your English-language research papers and other publications. Otherwise a neutral observer has no reason to believe you give a damn about the quality of your research.)

it is quite amusing that someone from the hypergravity site is so "bold" to come to this site to respond to my valid criticisms of their gadget without clearly identifying themself.

the other efforts of this "HYPERGRAVITY" person are just plain laughable.

for starters i have not set myself up as the arbiter of anything. what i have done is review the materials that these WBV manufacturers have provided as proof and have expressed the opinion that there is no proof offered in any of these studies.

as a professional in the field of fitness i am part of the target market to which these people are trying to sell, and as such i am of the opinion that there is no proof that WBV can do anything for anyone. therefore i am qualified to reach such an opinion.

the HYPERGRAVITY person attempts to refute my opinion by offering up yet another abstract of a shoddy study that provides no details. particularly interesting in this abstract is the description of the "irrelevant training" engaged in by the control group. there are no other details provided with regard to the type of exercises performed by these "28 male athletes" or details of any kind that allow anyone to make any kind of conclusion about the efficacy of WBV training.

and how is it poor taste to point out that your web site is riddled with spelling errors, and overt misattention to details and overall general sloppiness? the hypergravity folks are asking people to shell out thousands of dollars for their equipment and yet cannot produce an error-free web site. a company cannot be taken seriously if they cannot even produce a decent web site.

and while we're on the subject, on the "Applications" page of the web site the hypergravity people make more outlandish claims about WBV, saying among other things that the hypergravity platform can reverse the aging process, reduce cellulite and fat, reduce wrinkles, improve restoration of hair color (!) and more, all without a shred of proof to back up these claims.

anecdotal evidence is great for marketing departments and salesmen, but the story about you guys feeling good about all the struggles and triumphs that you have helped people overcome is pure myth, just like WBV training.

If anyone doubts my motives or identity. You are more than welcome to call me [Personal contact info removed] at my development centre in N.Z. ( Vibra-Train ) And i will confirm to you personally i wrote this.

And for the those of you in " fitness industry " . The ones who dare to judge what the developers ( not the marketers ) are trying to do. You are more than welcome to visit me at my mortuary business to see the results of YOUR best efforts.

The FACT remains that obesity is a massive problem you have no real answer for , or we wouldnt be talking about it.

lloyd:
the answer to obesity is lies in the concept of individual choice, and not in a vibrating platform. given the absolute dearth of any kind of legit data dealing with the efficacy of WBV as it pertains to any member of the population, making the statement that WBV is somehow the answer to the obesity problem is pure folly.

the people who suffer from a metabolic disorder that results in obesity is a small fraction of the total population of the obese. it may be politically incorrect to say it, but the vast majority of obese people have chosen to be obese.

and you can't put your phone number in a comment, as it violates the comment policy.

and one more thing, blaming the fitness industry for people dying from obesity is laughable and reduces your credibility to the level of the crediblity of the data that WBV is an effective solution to anything.

in case you didn't get the message, fat people are fat because they choose to be fat. they buy and eat - overeat - the foods, they ignore the advice of society and the medical community and they are the ones who are responsible for their sedentary and unhealthy lifestyles.

again, the percentage of people with legit metabolic/medical obesity are not considered in this light, but the vast majority of the obese have chosen their path.

Your comments SAL M as usual are correct. It is their choice to be obese. But you and i confiring on that in no way helps the situation. We are not obese.

What i am saying is these people need a stepping stone to simple movement. Not a size 8 bikini. They are beyond our advice. Which is what the " fitness industry " has refused to acknowledge. It instead CHOOSES to apply a simplistic approch of " just eat less and exercise more " . To justify there own lack of the understanding of how far gone the problem is.

Let me ask you a question , how often have you seen a clinically obese individual actually reverse their condition ?

I bet you could count them on one hand.

But despite this dismal failure the industry is so arrogant as to not even want to try another approch. I have seen it with my own two eyes. Personal Trainers telling people Vibration Training CANT work. No reason givin. Just a ploint blank denial of even the possability it may help someone .

And they DARE pretend to care, i know what a caring attitude looks like , and its not that. Its as fake as the plastic machines coming out of China.

That is why i count them as part of the problem , not the solution.

lloyd:
i think the people in the "fitness business" that can be blamed for the "tower of babel" situation that exisits with regard to diet and exercise are not true professionals, but are marketers and celebrities that have an agenda and want to trade off on their name recognition to make a buck off of the gullible, star-struck masses.

over my 20 years in the biz, i have seen how the majority of trainers who train "everyday people" have to struggle to get clients to overcome the nonsense that they have heard in the mainstream media.

i guess there are people in the WBV business who are making it tough for legit WBV'ers to get their message out. the hucksters who are pushing WBV as applicable for everyone are making it hard for legit guys like yourself to get your message out.

Who will do rigorous objective science? Not me. We -believe- or not , according to our limited knowledge and understanding of research findings, of experts and their opinions. We get in trouble when we pretend to understand what we don't understand. We choose what 'sounds senseable'. In the end, the best we can do is try and master our personal paradox: Objectively judge our subjective results. I submit my subjective results from a short session, (three minutes), on a 40MHz vibration platform: 1/Holding a semi-squat position (thighs about half-way down toward parallel), felt as if had a 150lb weight vest on , (I own an 84lb vest to compare). 2/ Flexibility of my hamstrings and tension in my achilles tendon was greatly improved immediately after a forward bend on the machine. The effect lasted for at least few hours, (an hour longer than any previous therapy or exercise's effect has lasted). 3/ Although no specific work was done for this, stress in my neck was relieved for a few hours, (an effect equal to chiropractic treatments that have never lasted more than an hour). 4/ The next day my thighs had a delayed onset muscular soreness. I am active, regularly walk up and down multiple flights of stairs, and do sets of leg presses with 400 lbs without soreness. so I must regard this effect with interest. Sal, why not just try it? You've given us a good analysis of the lax research and misleading promotion, now give us your opinion, of the machine itself.

There's a sucker born every minute -- or more often.

Trying and buying are two different things, unless you don't trust your own sales resistance. One can be also be a sucker by losing a real advantage due to stubborness masquerading as skeptism. I'm more than happy to hear from anyone who's tried one of Hypergravity's machines and was not impressed. I'm not disputing that the research is unconvincing, so let's lay off the paperwork and compare experiences. Hey, Sal loves kettlebells, and most if not all of Pavel's Russian anecdotes are made up. Why doesn't Sal scrupulously research Pavel's story-telling?: Because Sal TRIED the kettlebells, and he LIKED them. Fair enough...Try the machine.

mark:
you are just another anonymous internet random masquerading as a fitness expert.

i tried and use kettlebells and have read pavel's books because they are rooted not only in the rich history of training but because pavel takes a no-nonsense, common sense approach to his philosophy. also, the kettlebells are accessible.

WBV training on the other hand is based in fake science that tries to dress up flawed studies so that these studies can be used as proof that WBV works. when i've called these studies out as flawed and inaccurate, those in the wbv industry tell me to forget the science and just try it for myself.

what a joke.

and if you had any knowledge of training you would be aware of basic flexibility techniques that can improve a person's level of flexibility without the need for equipment that costs anything. when you consider the ridiculous expense of the ridiculous WBV gadgets, your position becomes even more ludicrous.

I -am- Mark, I'd be anonymous no matter how much more I told you about myself, it would simply mean nothing anyone on the forum. What do you want to know? I am -not- a fitness expert, and never said I was. I'm only speaking my mind and explaining my experience. I was born in 1948. I have no financial interest in vibration, and no friends or family in the industry. I've tried many stretching techniques. I have Pavel's books, on stretching and strength, and many others. I've dabbled in many martial arts, but have studied tai chi since 1978, and strength training since 1965. I have kettlebells, (made for me, much cheaper). I find the effect of the vibration machine on the tension in my left achilles tendon and neck to be something other than any stetching, massage, chiropractic, or acupunture has caused,(much more complete, quicker, easier, and longer lasting).. I don't own a vibration machine, and I do a rigorous stretching routine every day, by necessity, just to get a fraction of the effect. Yes, the machines are too expensive,(i'm not buying one), and no, they're not readily available, (but I found one to try, and so can you.)....... Most, if not all, of Pavels 'rich history' is made up by Pavel. (I don't have the sites for you to check, but if you're interested, the 'other side' of the kettlebell myth is easy to track down.) His training may be no-nonsense,(some experts dispute this), but his promotion is full of it. I don't care, and you don't care. We like results.That's fine. But why don't you write about how much paper he wastes with empty space and huge print, so he can turn a pamphlet into a thirty-dollar book, only to rewrite it the next year and sell it to us all over again? I'd appreciate your criticisms much more if you dealt them out a little more fairly.

Regarding my not purchasing a machine: To be fair, I'd probably get the 'home' Hypergravity,($3,499+$280=$4279), but I weigh 235lbs, and would want to use fairly heavy dumbells while on the platform, which puts me at the limits of the commercial unit, ($7,449+$450=$7889). Power Plate is even more, ($9,259+600+$9,850!). Too high, no doubt on that count. (At least Hypergravity will extend the warranty year by year.) When a reasonably priced club near me gets one, I'll be there.

I thought if it was from a negative perspective, that the product info would be acceptable, but as I look at it , I can see that it may not be. My apologies, and I understand if you wish to delete this. By the way, Are personal attacks allowed if it's your blog?

there is nothing to delete here...you've expressed your opinion with which i have disagreed.

Great comments here. As for me I've been researching WBV for a little over a year now and recently had the opportunity to utilize a demo vibraflex unit in my office (I'm a chiropractor) for a week. My patients love it, especially the ones with restless-leg-syndrome (able to sleep finally) as nothing else has helped them at all.

glad i found your blog. was thinking of buying a soloflex unit. couldn't find studies that satisfied me. after finding your blog i will continue to wait.

$5-10k? You're kidding me!

Gee whiz, I paid a few hundred dollars for a home elliptical machine, which is wonderful, and another few hundred for one of those gadgety weight sets that uses pins to set the weight. It all takes up very little room in my house, and I need nothing more. Total cost: around $1000, not all at once.

Gee whiz. There are suckers, and then there are suckers!

I know I am new to this discussion. I have been following about WBV and have interest in buying the soloflex unit. Interesting Blog. Forgetting the research for or against from a logical perspective, shouldn't any device that causes motion/stimulation to muscles have some positive effect. I don't believe WBV would be a as good as Resistance training but somehow for the more sedentary people out there, (myself being a physician who has been trying to lose weight after 2 children with cardio but not doing much strength training thus far), logically it would seem that this device might help.

I would love to see better research too but just because all the right research has not been done doesn't mean the premise is wrong.

For those who are interested I have absolutely no association with anyone or anything in the fitness industry except that I personally want to be more fit but do not have a huge time to train working full time and having 2 young children.

Not all vibration training devices are the same... Like in every field there are things that smell... and some others that just do the job right!

[spam link removed]

Hi everyone,

I'm announcing my resignation from Hypergravity.

I'm not going to discuss the circumstances surrounding my decision to leave, but suffice it to say I left of my own free will for reasons of conscience.

From now on when I post on this board it will be under my own name.

Best regards,

Christopher

As an owner and user of the Soloflex WBV Platform and an obese woman, I have a some thoughts I'd like to add to this discussion.

For the first 30 years of my life, I always weighed between 110 and 125 lbs. After I gave birth to my first child 8 years ago, I developed hypothyroidism and quickly gained a lot of weight. I have always been very active and eat moderate amounts of healthy food. Despite my healthy diet and vigorous exercising/weight training, I continued to steadily gain weight for the last 8 years, reaching a high weight of 228 lbs. I did not CHOOSE to be obese, nor do I sit like a couch potato - I work hard trying to get back to my normal size.

I began seeing an endocrinologist 8 months ago, had many tests run, changed my medications a few times and still had no weight loss - although I hadn't gained any more.

I purchased the Soloflex WBV platform 2 months ago and have used it 5 - 6 times a week for 10 to 30 minutes a day. I weight train, do yoga and stretching on the platform. In the last 2 months, I have lost 18 lbs. of fat and gained 4 lbs. of muscle (I have a body fat measuring scale). The only change I have made is doing my exercise on the platform instead of the floor. My flexibility has improved a lot and my measurements have improved as well. I'll continue to use the platform as long as I am seeing results.

I am not encouraging anyone to run out and buy a platform. This is just my personal experience that I thought I would share. Not all obese people are lazy and eat tons of junk food and if you have never tried using a WBV machine, maybe give it a try.

- Rachel

Do you know anything about Juvent?
It looks more serious with better research. What do you think?

Kim

I have been using the Soloflex platform for about 20 min a day for three weeks. I already had the Soloflex station and added the WBV attachment. I can't tell any difference thus far. I'm not pro or con, but willing to try it.

Lloyd Shaw
January 25th, 2007
Discrimination against the overweight with some weight loss machines ?

Are companies producing low quality Vibration Training units discriminating against obese people by having low " dynamic load " specs ?

This is the point where the machine loses speed and amplitude due to a load threshold being exceeded.

I will be looking at this closer in the future. With tests on popular brands being released. One brand already coming up short at only 80kg.

In the mean time a discussion around the ethics of this would be valuable

Another dedicated Vibration Training link

[overly-commercial spam link removed]

The writing is on the wall... Hate to say I told you so but...

Dear Sal,

I am from Hong Kong and dealer for FITVIBE brand vibration training devices. Recently, I founded a studio, named VIBRATION THERAPY INSTITUTE (VTI) to promote and study the proper use of Controlled Whole Body Vibration (I prefer to refer this modality as Hyper-Gravity Stimulation Training "HGST").

I respect your professional background in Fitness & Physical Training and your time in studying the literatures about this training method.

As you can tell from my background, we are in opposite positions. There have been a number of people responded to your criticism. For me, I just want to ask a simple question:

"Have you ever tried to train with a decent vibration device for several consecutive weeks?"

As a respectful personal trainer in the field, I believe it would be easy for you to obtain a demonstration unit from one of the suppliers for a free trial period. If you refuse to try it but sit there to pick flaws in others' studies or statement, forgive me to say, you have bias against this new or any new training method.

I do not agree Controlled Whole Body Vibration or Hyper-Gravity Stimulation Training is hype. I am a untrained person. I tried our first FTIVBE demo unit for several weeks and I could feel muscles building up. Once it also helped to ease my back pain. I have now a Sports Physiotherapist working for me because she believes in it. If it is just a commercial gimmick, I would not invest in opening VTI but use the budget (VTI is installed with 7 units of FITVIBE) to launch a large scale of advertising campaign and sell a lot of machines for good profit. I decided to make the commitment because I have seen result through my own eyes and therefore I solidly believe in this modality.

It may be true that we do not yet know the maximum potential of HGST or if it may cause harmful effect in long run. However, the difference between us is that you choose to criticize this new training modality by picking flaws from studies, I choose to understand it through practice and study.

Criticizing without first person's experience is quite unfair and those enterprises who try to take advantage on the popularity of Whole Body Vibration to launch their cheap vibration devices for fast money are unethical and they are doing harm to the development of ths new training method.

TC

I've decided that the key to fitness is exercising with your body at a 13.1 degree angle to horizontal. But not just any 13-degree platform will do. No, you need my high-quality 13.1-degree platform to ensure that you get the best results.

I know you're thinking that this makes no sense. Why 13 degrees? Why 13.1 specifically? How on earth can that make any difference whatsoever. For all you doubters, I have just one question:

"Have you ever tried to train with a decent 13-1 degree tilting device for several consecutive weeks?"

Once you've done that, all skepticism will melt, i just know it. Don't let the science or reason or actual thought get in the way, order your 13.1 tilting platform today for only $295!

Hello Phillip,

I think we all should keep a open-mind.

Like to learn more about your 13.1 degree tilting device. Where can I obtain the information of your device.

TC

I purchased the Soloflex platform and have used it for about 20 minutes every day for about a month. I have increased my flexibility considerably, feel much better, and have lost a few pounds. No other changes in my routine, other than I do my excercises on the platform. Not scientific and not trying to sell anything

I think this is an argument that will go on forever. I work in the fitness industry and have done so for 30years. Sports and fitness training has been around since the beginning of time. What I cant understand is why something that was originally designed for astronauts to increase their bone density is being advertised as something for everyone?? What is said and done in this forum is not true to what is being said within our society on a daily basis and what is being advertised and portrayed. I have read the past comments including individuals who have had weight issues, health issues or other. Society is renown for making excuses as to why we cant loose weight, be stronger or we are the quickest to find faults in things that benefit others. Bottom line, WVB is ANOTHER marketing object to make money... People may say that Gyms and fitness centres are the same.... true, you give a service and you expect to be paid, however, walking, running, swimming or any kind of sport will also be beneficial to your health.. WVB is not.. Do we encourage our kids to go "jump on the wvp for 20min?" or do we encourage them to go ride their bikes or go play ball?? COme on!!! THink about it... No wonder society is going to the pack when another 1 hit wonder crosses our paths and the focus of why we do this becomes foggy??? With all the physiotherapists I work with on a daily basis, NOT 1 HAS approached me and said this is the way to go.... theory.... if its not broken, dont try to fix it.. Thankyou!!

I don't know where you live Sofia. But we have a problem , so we are trying to fix it.

And if you are going to make bold statements like " I am a professional , WBV is not good for your health "

The least you can do is be ethical/professional and put your proper name to your statement. So at a later date you can stand by it.

I have.

And I can take from your statement Sofia you have and never will use new methods for exercise.

So that rules out

(a) Swiss Ball
(b) Weight Machine
(c) Cycle
(d) Wobble Board
(e) Treadmill
(f) Rowing machine
(g) Pilates Rack

Even just plain weight training wasn't introduced until the 40's , and warned against by most Doctors until recent years.

Dont you find your " no new technology rule " a bit limiting for your clients ?

Hello Sofia,

I see two groups of people involved in vibration training. One group are typical marketers, vibration training device means another product to make money; they don't care if it works or not. The other group truly believe vibration training and devoted to promote the use of vibration training. Lloyd SHAW and me are belonged to the later group. (I just know Lloyd from forums concerning vibration training)

Eventhough we say we can achieve the same effect of conventional physical training by doing vibration training. For me, I never suggest everyone should give up conventional training and switch to vibration training. For those people who have strong self-motivated mind to do conventional training, I applaud them.

However, you cannot deny there are people who do not do any exercise eventhough they know regular exercise is important to good health. And perhaps these people mean the majority of population. Frankly, I was one of them and you can call these people lazy or whatever. No matter how you label them or how much our health authority spend to promote the importance of physical exercises, you can never change these people's bad habit. Conventional training is just too painful to them.

If the advantages of Short Exercise Time and Less Exertion of Vibration Training can pull some of these people out from their sofa to start doing exercise, why can't you keep an open-mind to it?

You said none of the physiotherapists that you worked with, has recommended on vibration training. Don't you know vibration training was not taught when they studied physiotherapy? Most physiotherapists are lack of knowledge on vibration training. If they don't know it, how can they recommend or use it.

I am having a sports physiotherapist working for my vibration training studio. Before she came aboard, she had no knowledge about vibration training. She agreed to take the job because she was convinced that this technique worked when she tried it at her interview. In fact, I interviewed about 5 physiotherapists during recruitment, all had no knowledge on vibration training but they all agreed it was another form of resistance exercise after their trial.

We had a highly respectful sports orthopaedic doctor visited my studio to evaluate our facility and program; he was impressed and invited us to give a presentation on vibration training in coming sports medicine convention.

We have a member who is a medical doctor and an amateur athlete. He started his vibration training program two months ago as part of his preparation for a marathon run that took place early this month. He finished the run, came back to tell us that vibration training did help him to complete the run easier.

We are also helping a number of people with osteo-arthritic knee, osteoporosis and obesity.

The concept of vibration training plus a decent vibration training device certainly is another form of physical training.

TC

PowerPlate founder has propery confiscated...

You all can argue about WBV until the end of time. Meanwhile, I'll be on my Soloflex platform almost every night!

I am a 55 year old woman. I bought the Soloflex platform in September and since then it is the only non-cardio exercise I do (prior to that I'd used weight machines at the local YMCA three times a week for 2 1/2 years; I still do cardio machines 3-5 times each week). I do a combination of stretches, lunges, squats and upper body work with 8-lb weights on the platform.

Since September, I have seen very real change in my body, in particular a lean muscularity in my arms and legs that I haven't had since my teens. Even my KNEES look toned, a result which I wouldn't have even dared to dream!

It was never my goal to be body-builder muscular, all I want is muscle TONE, and for me it has worked beyond my wildest expectations.
This summer I will be wearing shorts and bare arms and my 20 year old daughter will envy my muscle tone!

I've also noticed two additional benefits:

(1)I sleep better at night.

(2) I'm feeling far less of the stiffness that creeps up on you in middle age; I pretty much bounce out of bed in the morning - instead of that slow, stiff straightening-up I remember doing not so long ago.

I've got no interest in Soloflex...but I love my WBV platform and am so glad to have found it. It was an absolute bargain.

Yesterday I won a judgement by the Ministry of Justice against Power-Plate by a District Court Judge.

The ruling was to help me clarify I was indeed Power-Plates Product Manager ( 2003-2004 ).

Power-Plate had recently tried to defend itself from my exposure of their unethical behaviour by claiming I never worked for them.

That was found untruthfull by the courts.

The good that can come from this , is people around the world who have a legal case against Power-Plate can now call on me as an expert witness.

Dear All,

I have spent the last hour or so reading all your comments with great interest.. the only thing that I would like to add, is that my wife says there is also another dimension that has not been discussed which is the vibro machine is far better than any of the Ann Summers toys that can be purchased and is wonderful for that "oh my god" experience!!

Bob -- at least, a useful purpose for these machines! Seems like "toys" would be cheaper, though.

My name is David Bazett-Jones. I hold a master's degree in Biomechanics, am a Certified Athletic Trainer, am a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist, and will be pursuing my PhD in the fall of 2007. I have sat and read all of the whole-body vibration (WBV) articles and comments with much interest. As a researcher and scientist, I enjoy a healthy debate. However, I will say that this has not been the healthiest debate.

Disclaimer: The abstract from my thesis (article is being reviewed for publication) is #7 on the Power Plate's web site. However, I will not endorse their product (or any one's product) because I feel that would preclude bias on my part. No product-comparison research can be found in the literature. I have no financial connections to Power Plate.

A few topics seems to have been contorted due to the author's bias against vibration. We must look at the two topics that are most mixed; the actual research done on WBV and the way vibration companies use that research. These are very separate topics and I will try to explain why. First of all, most of the WBV studies (that ALL the vibration companies cite) are good scientifically. They are not great, but that doesn't make them worthless. You must remember that research (and science) is a fluent beast that is always adapting. There ARE a few very good studies that have been done but the research on WBV is absolutely in its infancy. No matter what is stated on a manufacturer's web site or in this blog, we don't know everything about WBV. But, that can be said about almost every device, fad, diet, training aid, etc that is on the market right now. Even some of the surgical procedures that might safe your life have not been absolutely perfected by research. That being said, I don't believe that Sal M has given vibration a fair shake (pun intended).

Now on the second part is the way in which manufactures use this research to "prove" that their device works. Of the research that I have read (and I have read over 200 articles), I have found only 4 plates to have been really researched. These are Power Plate, Galileo, NEMES, and Juvent. When I first started vibration research, there were only a couple companies and now there are TONS, jumping on the fad wagon. They promote other's research as their own (except I do know that Power Plate separates theirs from others). However, this is only the result of the uninformed consumer. Look at any advertising and you will see practices that portray products in a better light than they really are (e.g. fast food commercials!). Just remember that the way manufactures use the research doesn't mean the research is bad.

Closing thoughts:
1. Is buying a vibration machine worth it? Pretty much no. Even the Soloflex version (which I have never tried but don't think much of it from looking at the web site) isn't worth the $400. If the gym you go to gets one, try it out.
2. Does it work? It does seem to work and be safe (if you don't stand on it for 6 hours a day 7 days a week). It does seem to be more effective in less healthy populations but this is something that hasn't really been looked at.
3. Is it better than traditional resistance training? Absolutely not. Are kettlebells better than resistance training? Absolutely not. Are swiss balls better? No, because nothing will ever beat good old-fashioned hard work. But if you hit a plateau and can't break it, will vibration be the extra little thing that gets you over it? Maybe but the same can be said about kettlebells and swiss balls.
4. WBV will never replace cardiovascular training.
5. No one knows if one manufacture is better than the other.
6. Keep an open mind but don't be naive!

I hope this entry helps with the healthy debate and with those looking to buy a WBV platform.

David


"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." -George Bernard Shaw

Good comment David but one small thing you may want to look at while doing your thesis. When looking at studies on "brand" machines demand matching engineering reports first. So you know where your start point is for a results based program. Do not rely on the photos supplied as they may have been doctored by a marketer.

The machine you use or study may not be running to it's stated specs.
Example
example 2

Note: Both results where published in mid 2004 when Power-Plate released its new plastic model. But the actual tests where done in 2002 at the University of Leuven , Belguim using a stainless steel model.

I personally have photos of the original test machine.

They just swapped photos to suit their marketing. Making any studies on their studies useless to the academic community and consumers.

The new plastic units have failed subsequent engineering tests ( 20% + error rating )

But besides all that, good luck.

Acceleration Training and Vibration Training/Therapy is the same thing in case anyone hears the term from a marketing company and is confused.

Lloyd,

I understand your concerns regarding the claims by Power Plate regarding their fiberglass model. I also have those concerns with that model and many of the others on the market. That is why I tested it and reported the accelerations in my thesis (it is in review with the British Journal of Sports Medicine). Here are my results (with no one on it):

30 Hz, Low Amp - 2.16g
35 Hz, Low Amp - 2.49g
40 Hz, Low Amp - 2.79g
50 Hz, Low Amp - 3.08g
30 Hz, High Amp - 4.15g
35 Hz, High Amp - 4.87g
40 Hz, High Amp - 5.18g
50 Hz, High Amp - 5.84g

These accelerations are lower than reported by Power Plate. Since this was done with no weight on the machine, much concern arises regarding its use (plastic/fiberglass vibration models) in an obese population or a population with heavy, muscular athletes (e.g. American football, rugby, etc). I am aware that Power Plate has changed their model (the original design is now the Vibrogym) so some of their claims may not be as valid as we would all like. However, there has not been an independent research study on how different materials and weights on those materials effects its effectiveness. This is just another unknown (among many) of vibration.

Similarly, the different effects of vertical vibration (PP, etc) vs rocker-board vibration has not been studied, which may offer additional insight into the mechanisms of WBV. Just an additional thought.

Yes my concern is from a trainers point of view when designing a program ( I design machines and matching programs ) you need a stable starting point. Without this the program is essentially random and hence unsafe.

No better than a trainer at a gym asking you to pick up a weight without knowing it's true Kg value and asking you to swing it around.

Just not done.

Note. With a drop in G-Force comes a drop in Speed ( Hz ). So matching resonance Fq of bodyparts is hard to counter.

VibraSlim a U.S./Canadian based company has been involved with Plagiarising an entire website for marketing purposes.

Absolute proof that this company is dishonest in nature and should not be trusted..

Power Plate in trouble again. This time being caught using a world leading researchers name on their so called Medical Advisory Board.

This person has publically denied being involved or supporting the company.

Result ? They have been forced to take down every name from the list.

The academic community will not be happy with this and the backlash should come as a timely kick in the guts for a company that seems to know no ethical boundaries.

David,
You say, "it's not worth buying a machine". In most cases I agree as a Good Studio provides an Instructor and program for the user in an encouraging environment; in my country at a very low cost, when compared to buying a top quality machine.

You said
"It does seem to be more effective in less healthy populations but this is something that hasn't really been looked at"... Again, it's something that is being promoted where I live and some Studios give reduced prices to those who have need and would benefit most. But, it isn't only effective with the overweight or those with specific health problems. Vibration Training is hugely sucessful as a training method for Sports people and also for those who think exercise is watching the Ball game on TV.

I know because I am a user of a Vibration Training and I have achieved amazing results and seen others in the studio also very happy with their program.

Hi, I am 53, and I have recently been diagnosed with osteoporosis. I am refusing to take the drugs that everyone is prescribing, and I have started an exercise program. I alternate rebounding and walking for aeroobic exercise, and every other day I lift weights. I attended a lecture given for osteoporosis at Emory University in Atlanta a few weeks ago and the Dr. cited a 6 month study on hip density in postmenopausal women using a WBV. I found the study published by the "American Society for bone and Mineral Research", on the Powerplate website.

I have not found any doctors that are able to help me find effective exercises for rebuilding bone. I have read that the weight lifting can rebuild bone in my spine, but not the hip.

If I purchased a WBV machine, I would just add it to my program and not use it as a substitute for exercise. My only problem is the price of the machines, and the fact that the technology is new and will probably change dramatically over the next few years.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good moderately priced machine that I could buy and test this theory?

Sandra,

I would say that the most researched (and therefore, theoretically safest and most effective) and best priced device ($2500 US) for osteoporosis is the Juvent (www.juvent.com). I have not financial interest in this device, so I feel I can give an unbiased recommendation. This device probably will not help with muscle mass and requires daily use (~10-20 minutes/day); however, it has been PROVEN to work. The other vibration devices have only gotten limited positive results (including a study that I did for 6 months). That is my suggestion.

David

Yes David is correct. Do not purchase a random unit built with no expertise. With manufacturors changing designs and moving factories soley based on cost of production , who knows what you would actually get.

Juvent was built with purpose and expertise so would be my choice.

Just had a quick browse on JUVENT website.

JUVENT emphasize their device is very safe because it generates only 0.3G stimulus. It is of course safe but isn't it too gentle to trigger any therapeutic effect???

I like to describe this traing technique as Hyper-gravity Stimulation Training (HGST) instead of vibration training because the concept is to utilize hyper-gravity load to stimulate the entire neuro-musculo-skeletal structure to counter the stimulation. In other word, we need a sufficient hyper-gravity load.

JUVENT quote a long list of scientific studies on this training technique; however, most of these studies were done with gravity acceleration devices that JVENT call them dangerous.

I do notice JUVENT also quote a list of testimonials. I do not want to query these testimonials. However, if a device generating only 0.3G can work, perhaps we should reconsider our previous criticism on the cheap Asian replicas and gave them applause because these cheap replicas may also work and their prices are much much cheaper than JUVENT.

JUVENT describe other gravity acceleration devices violent because these devices can generate several to tenth of G-force. Readers should know there are so-called "violent vibration devices" from Europe being classified as Class 2A medical device and carrying "MDD" (Medical Device Directive) label.

TC

Yes I do not agree with their putting down of other units that fit outside their programs.

But as for theirs , the energy is transfered very effectively through hard tissue like bone when standing locked legged on the units as in Juvents programs.
Something that cannot and should never be done on a workout unit.

They rely soly on the "shock" effect on the nerve cells in the bone to set off their bio-kenetic feedback effect. Not load bearing due to g-force acceleration as our units do.

My own "Required Force 1" series applies the same principles. As not everyone can afford to lose weight , especially when elderly.

And TC you may be correct in assuming a cheaper Asian model may surfice ,the only reason I would not recommend that myself is you simply have no idea what actual setting you are on when using something that cheap.

I appreciate all the comments, and now I would like to know what you think about the difference in the "Piston" vibration compared to the "Triangle Oscillation System". I have seen articles questioning the dangers of G force, and that is the very thing that is supposed to be good for you in rebounding. There's just too much information out there, and I need some clarificaton. Thanks

From the very extensive research on vibration in the workplace, it has been shown that the most important vibration variable is frequency. Research has shown that frequencies between 0 and about 25Hz can cause many health problems. Many of these studies have been done with hours of vibration exposure, compared to a much less exposure (at least time wise) with vibration training. While it is hard to apply some of this research to vibration training (due to time exposure differences), care must be taken since the long-term safety of vibration training is unknown. Many of the vibration devices DO exceed vibration exposure standards for the workplace. It is for this reason that the Juvent (developed by Clint Rubin, a bone expert) has been developed.

The Juvent is the most researched vibration device available. It has shown the most promise and will (my prediction, again I have not connection to Juvent) be the first such device approved by the FDA for the treatment of osteoporosis. All other devices are considered in the same class as your typical treadmill (exercise device, not necessary for medical treatment). As far as bone goes, it seems that vibration of very small magnitude (gs, where on g is the acceleration due to gravity - i.e. the reason we don't bounce around) can be just as or more effective than vibration machines that induce greater magnitudes. Keep in mind that this is for bones. It has NOT been shown that the Juvent increases muscle functioning or balance, two risks factors for falling. The Juvent's web site claims that it maintains muscle mass and balance, however only one of their studies looked at muscle mass (not enough to show efficacy; I guess all manufactures have their not-so-accurate claims).

As far as quality products go, this is still unknown also. I have used the Power Plate (both old steel and new fiberglass models), Galileo, WAVE, Juvent, and others that I can't remember the name off the top of my head. All of them (except the Juvent) feel pretty much the same when you are exposed to the same frequency. No one knows (I repeat, no one) if it matters whether you make it out of stainless steel or plastic. We can guess, but it is not known. I would love to seem Consumer Reports look into this. I will also say, give it 10 years; those machines still on the market are the quality ones. Only time will tell.

Lastly, to answer Sandra's questions regarding the vibration mechanics. Most vibration machines use motor- or piston-driven vibrators and most of these machines produce vertical vibrations. As far as the "Triangle Oscillation System", I would guess that the site that you are referring to is for the K-1 WBV machine. This is kind of similar to the rocker board design of the Galileo machine, however, the vibration produced by the K1 seems like it might have a very large horizontal component (vertical is what causes the loading on your bones and body, no research on horizontal). I would not put much faith in the K1 but then again, I would not trust 90% of the machines out there (I am a skeptic). There are too many unknowns out there to go drop even $500 (like for the Soloflex unit).

At this point in the marketplace, my suggestion is that you are going to get what you pay for (to an extent of course). Juvent is the best for osteoporosis, bottom line, as far as a researched device. Insurance companies may even pay for it, but that is not known. You may also be able to write it off for a tax break (at least in some states in the US) as exercise equipment. There are many unknowns right now. Anything you buy, you will be taking at least a bit of a risk. The key is minimizing that risk.

"I am a skeptic" ?

Thanks for the laugh!

i am truly shocked at the level of discussion that this subject has created.

For the vast majority of people - all but the most infirm - nothing will ever replace exericise. as one of the comments above mention, WBV does nothing to improve muscle tone and balance, two of the most important factors in producing movement.

all the scientific jargon in the world and arguments over the minutia with regard to frequency of vibration and the mechanical specs of the machines just obscure the fact that people need to move and in order to enjoy the true benefits of exercise.

sometime in the future there may be some valid use for WBV in some narrow segment of the population, but for everyone else nothing will replace exercise that involves weight bearing and ground-based full body movements.

I have been folloing this blog for a while now and would like to offer some insights.
I own a company called PowerVibe and we manufacture a unit called PowerVibe Pro. I preface this, so readers are informed of my financial position concerning WBV. I became interested approx. 20 years ago when working with US Olympic athletes, who were in contact with russian athletes.
Sal is making a good point: There is nothing better than exercise! But the reality is that the vast majority of people are not exercising, for various reasons: lazyness, time constrains, inexperience, injuries, pain, you name it.
WBV can offer an excellent starting point for all those who are currently not exercising.
Compared with other modalities, better units (above $2000) can offer a safe, fast, effective and uncomplicated way to get started! Will it be as good as spending the time driving to the gym, then spend an hour in the gym under the supervision and support of a trainer-no!
But how many people will actully go for that 3xWeek for 6-7 months?period of time? Very few.
On the other hand, 4-5xWeek 15-20 minutes WBV in the comfort of your home sounds like a sensible alternative at a reasonable cost.
More about the physiology of bone stimulation in my next session.

To Lloyd,

Thanks for the information. My comment on the Asian replicas was a joke.

To Dr. Reichardt,

You spoke what I want to say to respond to Sal.

To Sal,

It's like doing circle in the discussion with you. However, I still thank you for hosting this blog, providing us a platform for discussion on WBV.

No one in WBV industry, is trying to promote WBV as a SUBSTITUTE to conventional physical training. We are saying that it is a complimentary exercise for exercisers to achieve good result faster; we are saying that it is an alternative choice for the majority of population who do not like doing conventional exercises.

You refuse to accept studies and testimonials proving the effect of WBV, showing you are NOT skeptic but STUBBORN.

We have a client received ACL reconstruction two years ago. He has been following rehabilitation programs and going to gym under supervision of physiotherapists and personal trainers during the last two years, trying to regain muscle mass and strength on his operated leg but progress was not satisfied. He started WBV about a month ago, coming 2 or 3 times a week. He said his progress with WBV in a month time is better than what he has done in last two years.

TC

Dr. Christian Reichardt...

Your company manufactors the machines yourself. Who designed it ?

The reason for my question is I do design units and its quality of production does change the results. This misconception has hurt our industries reputation.

As product manager of PowerPlate I saw this with my own eyes when they moved the factory to China .

Sal M...

No one to date has suggested replacing exercise with Vibration Training. My goal is to get people who are not moving a stepping stone back into a way , and mindset of health and fitness.

When someone like yourself makes a definitive remark like "WBV does nothing to improve muscle tone and balance"

You could be stopping someone from even trying it.

What will you do if this does work and we are telling the truth.

Say sorry ?

Sal & Others,

I want to clarify that my comment was not that "WBV does nothing to improve muscle tone and balance" but that specifically, the JUVENT machine has not shown this. However, there are quite a few studies, in both the healthy and "infirm", that show WBV improves muscle "tone" (the worst word in fitness history) and balance. To unequivocally deny any benefit before the evidence is conclusive one way or another is bordering on unethical, not to mention "stubborn." If this was the correct way to look at new treatments/interventions, medical research would be non-existent and we would never find cures.

Real Health Concerns Regarding Vibration Training


Note: Vibration Therapy/Training has been used successfully and safely for almost 100yrs. With no problems recorded. It is only of recent concern that marketers have jumped into this technology with no back knowledge and only sales in mind. Trust me I worked for them and their concern for your health is ZERO. Anything that may divert a sale will not be approached let alone researched. The programs I originally developed for PowerPlate where rejected due to complaints from their marketing department. Follow these and you will get all the benefits with none of the safety concerns.

Please read below for further details.
The unrestricted/unsupervised use of Vibration Training equipment has been a concern of mine since I first started writing original material in 2003. As Product Manager of Power-Plate I saw the potential for abuse of the units in several ways. With there refusal to acknowledge my concerns one of the reasons for my departure. Some of them being.
(1) Overuse
(2) Incorrect poses
(3) Incorrect Fq
I will list the reasons for these concerns and why I believe the sooner the "real" industry starts talking to each other and laying down some restrictions , the better.
Overuse
Symptoms....
(1) Chronic Fatigue....
This can cause everything from just plain tiredness to a massive drop in your immune system. Which can lead to other health disorders. This one is simple , you ask you body to do too much and it can't keep up. Think about this , in an average Vibration Training session you may do approx 30,000 separate movements. This is like running a marathon for most people, and because it is actually do-able for most people, it is primed for abuse. But your body simply can't expend that amount of energy and keep going for long. You will get sick eventually.
(2) Hyperthyroidism....
This is a state where your regulatory glands are over activated causing a large fluctuation in your hormone levels. This can lead to fluid retention , problems with hormone sensitive organs such as the ovaries (for woman). To its extreme this condition can cause multi organ failure.
Note: I have had one case reported to me so far from South Africa where a lady was using a plate for over 40mins a day. And she was following her instructors advice !! So this theory was not a fancy-full idea as was put to me when I first aired my concerns.
Unfortunatly I expect to hear about more such cases before anything concrete is done.
Tissue breakdown....
This is when the healing cycle is not allowed to complete itself. And your body breaks down more cells than it can rebuild before you re-damage the area. Long distance runners have always had this problem with their knees.
Incorrect poses.....
This one sounds self explanatory but it is obviously not, from what I have seen on many a Vibration Training poster sold with machines and on the net.
Your joints are only designed to work at high use at precise angles , moving away from these angles can cause unnecessary wear and tear. It can also cause neck injuries. That is where a good instructor is very important , they will re-correct you during your time on the units so no problems occur.
Incorrect Fq....
This is a tricky one as so may of the units available go to the lower Fq , hence people believe it must be safe. The fact is lower Fq should only be used for limited Physio programs due to the unsafe nature of what they call resonance Fq. This is where waves bounce off each other causing a disturbance in an area. In this case in your internal organs give off their own resonance and matching these is not a good idea. They range from 5Hz-20Hz. Again mis-use could cause disturbance to the organs function. Keeping away from these Fq by a factor of 10Hz should allow safe use of units over a lifetime.
Note: Some cheaply built units are NOT doing the Hz setting showed on the display. Some are slowing down with only a load of 20-80kg. One major brand was tested unloaded at it was still slower by 13hz than its advertised specs. And that was with no-one on it. !!!
Now this article was not written to scare anyone off Vibration Training , just to show how serious we are about putting up this type of training for scrutiny . We will never create a safe industry by burying potential problems as is the normal procedure for marketers and corporates .


Kind regards..... Lloyd Shaw........ Founder of Vibra-Train ________________________________________

After two years studying a subject called vibrational medicine at the graduate level, I have definite concerns about the promiscuous use of mechanically-induced vibration for health.
There are studies that indicate that over-exposure to certain types of vibration can cause anything from detached retina to cancer. (Look up Vibroacoustic Disease).
I have no doubts that vibration may prove helpful, especially in the short term, but until the long-term effects are known, it seems to me sheer folly for gyms and trainers to expose their clients to the health risks and themselves to the insurance risks of this as-yet unexplored field.
It's like saying "aspirin is good for you" and then just randomly stuffing people full of aspirin. Caveat emptor.

The long term health risks are known for exposure to Vibrations. They are fully covered in ISO 2631 studies.

Thats what responable companies use to develop safety programs.

What your concern should be is Gyms and Personal Trainers being allowed to run units without this knowledge.

To Deborah,

Misuse can always cause damage.

If someone raise a barbell wrongly, one might injure some muscle or even cause joint dislocation. Over-use on treadmill or static bike could also harm the knees. Should we consider to ban all these gymnastic equipments? Of course not!

Don't treat Vibration Training a monster. It has very good value in rehabilitation program for various neuro-musculo-skeletal pathologies; as well as in fitness conditioning.

Good education and good knowledge will help to eliminate the risk of injury in Vibration Training.

TC

FULL DISCLOSURE: - I AM A SALESMAN OF WBV PRODUCTS.

Okay now that we are clear on that you can choose to believe what I am about to tell you or not. When I sell my products I will not lie to my customers. I tell them that Fitness = Diet + Exercise and that this product is only one of many steps that can be used to get in shape. The choice to be fit is a lifestyle change commitment and is not for everyone.

My WBV machines range in price from $3,000 to $9,000-- not cheap. The first thing I tell my customers is "I do not want to sell you this product if you think you can use it and then go enjoy a nice big cheeseburger". If you plan on sitting on your behind watching television while this machine sits in your living room watching TV with you... I don't want to sell you this product.

I may be the last of a dying breed of honest salesmen but that is the truth. I started my business because I truly believe that some of these WBV products do live up to most of their claims. Before I sold any of these products, I spent 6 months training on a WBV product 3 times a week for 10 minutes each session. I maintained a high protein, low calorie diet and stopped lifting heavy.

I DID NOT QUIT WORKING OUT all together though. I used WBV in addition to my resistance training regimen. The results were incredible. I leaned out faster than I ever had before and my abs were more defined than ever. Can I contribute my results to this to the machine alone?... NO. But it was a part of it.

So many manufacturers are trying to make the claim that WBV is the miraculous answer to everyone's fitness problems. It doesn't work that way. Like any traditional workout machine or regimen out there, the effectiveness of the activity is only as good as the commitment from its user. Too many of these manufacturers are capitalizing on the lack of their customer's education about fitness. My message is simple-- WBV is effective as part of a work out regimen not the whole thing. There is no easy way to get fit.

I have chosen to sell now mostly to personal trainers, chiropractors and physical therapists because they can educate their customers/patients about the PROPER use of WBV. If and when I sell a WBV machine to a general consumer, I offer free training on the product, education about how to diet and suggest a combined resistance training regimen. Additionally, I follow up with my customers to monitor their results.

The problem is that some customers do not want to add additional exercise to their lives. They are looking for that magic wand which will make them look like the airbrushed celebrities that they read about in gossip magazines. I tell these people no such thing exists. Yet for some reason they proceed to spend thousands of dollars on a machine because they believe it will be the driving force that motivates them to get in shape. If anything using the WBV is a step in the right direction but its only one of many steps that need to be taken.

Regarding the research for WBV. I agree that there has not been enough empirical data proving it effects. I have done some research and found that a Graduate student ant Oregon State University is doing some research on the effects of WBV on rats. I have tried to contact this person to see if I can offer any assistance yet I have received no reply. Here is the URL to her page with contact info. Please try and get a hold of her so that we can see what her results look like.
[Personal contact info deleted]

Contact me from the address on my website. The industry needs people like yourself.

Lloyd Shaw I would love to talk with you about your business. I will contact you soon.

I recently founded a company called Medvibe. Currently I have samples of tilt and vertical vibration platforms being sent to me. I will test them out and let you know what I think is effective.

I used to work for Aesthetic MD, distributors of the K1 ( now called the K2). I left the company due to several disagreements with the owners. For the money the product is alright but is too intense to be used unguided by the general public. I have had chiropractors return the product due to complaints of upper extremity injury. I definetly support the TOS system ( basically trademarked name for a teeter platform) for the lower extremeties. When they recruited me I was working for an orthopedic rehabilitation company renting durable medical equipment to insurance companies for thier injured customers. I am currently working on getting WBV products approved with medicare. The problem is discerning which machines are capable of producing therapuedic effects.

I am seeking out the participation of an Orthopedic surgeon, a physical therapist and a chirpractor to get this device approved for medical use. It may take a while but my customers and professioanl customers have seen great results and will stand by me. I have an Orthopedic surgeon here in Arizona who is interested in using WBV to rehabilitate his spine patients. I have several physical therapists using the my product and billing under various CPT codes. The fact is some of these WBV machines do live up to their claims. How do we figure out how to separate the good from the bad.

My suggestion is that we band together and form an advisory board that offers unbiased reviews of WBV products on the market. It would be great if each manufacturer could supply 1 demo machine for testing and sort of like road and track does cars we reveiw WBV machines .

Any opinions on that?

Hello Jon,

I founded VIBRATION THERAPY INSTITUTE to promote vibration training (we prefer to name it "Hyper-Gravity Stimulation Training") through practice and education in Hong Kong.

I have brought a sports physiotheapist aboard as our operation manager. We have treated patients with OA Knee, Low Back Pain and post ACL reconstruction .... with good progress.

Last Sunday, we were invited to give a presentation on this training technique at SMART Convention 2007 (Sports Medicine And Rehabilitation Treatment). Attendances were all orthopaedic doctors and allied health professionals.

Allow me to join you and Lloyd and those who are serious in promoting this training technique.

However, I want to make a comment on the so-called TOS (Triangular Oscillation System). As you said, it is a teeter platform that we normally refer it as pivotal or see-saw mechanism. There is big limitation in positioning on a pivotal platform. The most renown device of pivotal system should be GALILEO. I tried it before, I did not like the way it "shaked" me. At SMART, GALILEO was displayed next to us. I tried to keep an open mind and tried it again. Our physiotherapist tried it for her first time. This open-minded 2nd test did not change my negative impression on it. Our physiotherapist felt the same way. We both feel a pivotal platform may cause back muscle injury and it may torture pelvic joints too much.

TC

TC....

A pivotal system can be used effectively and safely but the education coming from the marketers of that type of training is so limited it is shocking.

Deliberate mixing up of reports and no solid programs based on actual primate rebalancing responses is the main problem.

I believe the companies marketing Pivotal units are operating purely on fear of loss of sales , hence they try to compair their system directly to Lineal platforms. This is not only bad science but a dangerous game to play. If they continue down this path, they will lose everything they have worked for.

Hi Lloyd,

Let me explain my 2nd evaluation on GALILEO in more detail.

I stood on the device and the salesman gave me 12.4 Hz which made me quite uncomfortable in lower back muscle. I remember learning from the other forum about vibration training that the optimal frequency for pivotal plate is around 18 Hz so I turned it up to 18 Hz. I felt much better at this frequency which gave me a sensation like 30 Hz on a lineal platform. I tried to feel how it feels at higher frequency so I turned it up to 30~40 Hz. The sensation was like having 50~60 Hz on lineal platform. I then tried to squat but as you know, GALILEO has a metal platform with smooth surface, my feet slipped away from the pivotal platform and actually stopped the device.

The salesman told me that GALILEO does not require the exerciser to place different positions such as squat as we would do on lineal platform. I doubt if they really do not require certain training positions or their device just could not accommodate certain positions.

I asked the salesman how could I train upper limbs. He said GALILEO has a small handheld training device for upper limb training. In other word, the GALILEO pivotal platform cannot train upper limbs.

My conclusion and personal opinion are:

1) GALILEO is a well-built pivotal platform.
2) Pivotal platform allows only few training possibilities.
3) Poor designed pivotal platform could cause motion sickness.
4) Good quality pivotal platform under proper supervision can be good for balance and proprioception training but not as effective as lineal platform in strengthening and stretching especially when we speak of "Whole Body" Vibration.
5) In comparing the total scores between pivotal and lineal platforms, I personally would choose lineal.

TC

I think the design errors come from non heavy use of the product during development. A number of platforms I know of have been designed by people who have never used them.

Strange to say the least.

I would like to chime in here. I propose setting up a blog away from the blog critic site for real constructive discussions on WBV. All the reps and manufacturers that are participating in this blog in a constructive non attack manner would be invited.

It seems we all have the same purpose in mind and that is to make sure that WBV is manufactured and promoted in a proper manner as to not injure our clients and to keep the bad marketers at bay.

Our company has been commisioned to provide a custom unit for certain large corporations and medical facilities. We are also testing many different types of units as well. Our initial findings are that some of our focus group users prefer pivitol and some prefer lineal. We are attempting to find the common thread on preference.

I personally have been using a pivitol machine for 1 1/2 years and enjoy this method of the vibration. I did not enjoy the lineal vibration as it made me nasuous. I find it interesting to read that many here do not like the pivitol movement. Possibly it is because we become used to one type of movement?

I have created a group on Yahoo that will allow for discussion in a better forum. If you search the groups section for Whole_Body_Vibration, you will find an group open to the public. I think open discussion among manufacturers, scientists and users is a great idea and will aid in both the development of better devices and programs; and in progressing the research of WBV. All interested are welcome and I hope we can have some constructive discussions.

David

RB

There is an independent (not run by someone in the industry) information and blog site. Just search for Vibration Training and you'll find it. You'd be welcomed there.

David,

I found one on yahoo called WBVtraining. Is that it?

The Yahoo group is titled "Whole_Body_Vibration" (you can use the URL link next to my name). There is one titled WBVtraining, but I believe that is it "owned" by a vibration employee (the profile indicates "Marketing executive". While I am a WBV researcher, I consider myself independent since I am not affiliation with any vibration companies. The vibrationtrainingdotnet site seems to be geared towards users but is definitely a good forum.

I would also be interested in which companies would be interested in having an independent lab test their devices. I have close relationships with labs in Wisconsin (my lab) and Indiana in the US. Obviously, we would probably need to charge a nominal fee for equipment (accelerometers, etc) and provide a unit but I think it would be an exceptional way to see which units are different or if they are all the same. We would want to publish the information and the manufactures would not have rights to the information (until after publication). Thoughts?

David

The V.T.A. ( Vibration Training Association ) has been set up to do tasks like that.

Laoded and unloaded tests will be done , with the results will being made public on the V.T.A. website as a consumers guide.

TC

The Galileo only goes upto 30hz so your comments about going upto 40hz confuse me. Also you mentioned your feet slipping, this is not a design fault. If you moved your feet closer together you would have been fine. The intensity increases as you widen your stance and you will need to build upto this or reduce the frequency. I'd be interested to know what model you tried?

I'm surprised you had a negative experience on the system, but I'd suggest everyone to go try for themselves. With reference to your physios comments the company who manufactures Galileo ensure 'ALL' their machines are medically certified and are built in a factory meeting strict ISO requirements. I could not say the same for most other vibration systems out there.

If your physio has any reservations I'm sure the company would be happy to speak to him or put him in touch with Dr's and physios who haven been using the Galileo for their patients. This way you can make a more informed decision.

Lloyd,

I searched for the VTA and see that the vibrationtrainingassociation.com web site is registered to Madd Dogg Athletics in Venice, CA. While I think this is a great idea to help consumers out, I believe that this testing is better performed in an independent research laboratory. This is my bias as a researcher. I personally have been wondering if one device is better than the other for a few years now and would like to even look at muscle activity (EMG), head accelerations, and user preferences (to name a few). I cannot do this unless the companies are willing to lend me their devices to investigate this (way too much money to purchase each unit). I, like you, would love to see the proper citation of both device capabilities and research (I think research done on another device should not be presented as their own but could be categorized by vertical, pivotal, etc).

David

Kas,
I believe that medical certification only ensures that the machines are built according to certain standard for medical devices, quality control, materials etc. This in my opinion has nothing to do with vibration protocols that are deemed safe or other prescriptions.

The research on WBV has revealed only the tip of the iceberg, and there is still a lot of ground to be covered. There are many prescriptive findings in the field, and many practitioners who are trying to spread the good news, and convince detractors. However, medical certification totally ignores the guidelines that Lloyd and others are recommending. Medical certification will lag several years before they adopt any of the guidelines proposed in this or other blogs, or medical research.

Hello Jon H, I am a distributor of Vertical and (future) Tilting platforms. I'm interested in corresponding directly with you. [Personal contact info deleted]

Giovanni,

In Europe - I am under the impression that once a product becomes medically certified the notified body has a duty to ensure safety. This means if anyone has any complaints about the machine, side effects etc the notified body has a duty to investigate. At least this is some type of policing, however the more guidelines proposed the better for everyone.

If certification was that easy to get I can assure you many more vibration training manufacturers would have it.

David....

The kind of test you are talking about are not likely to happen soon. With over 140 units on the market of such varying standards , the expense and time could not be justified untill we clarify who the real players in the market are first. I believe basic field tests that draw on the relationship between load and loss of Fq is our best option.

Once we have guidelines as to the acceptable levels of drop in performance we can then do indepth tests involving stable theoreticals.

NOTE. We have not finalized our name yet. The VTA is just a banner for us to collect under at the moment.

Is anyone aware of a medical body in the US that will be able to do this type of certification called for? This would be a good start to reign in the marketers with no intention of making this product safe.

So far the communication I have had with people in the medical field would indicate they do not know what to look for in a unit. Let alone give it a standard to pass by.

If they guess they could actually make matters worse.

To Kas at #89,

The model I tried was GALILEO 900 or 2000.

I can tell most people I know (mainly allied health professionals) who have tried pivotal platform, did not like it. However, I admit there are people who like lineal and others like pivotal. People who have not experienced vibration training before, should try both by themselves to determine which mechanism they prefer to train with.

Concerning medical device certification, it will be the "Medical Device Directive" in European Community. Equipments need to meet certain criteria and standards in order to obtain the accreditation. Equipments which meet the standard, are allowed to show a "MDD" label. Any one who is interested to learn more about this certification, can click into this link.

I do not see this MDD label on the GALILEO's demo unit that I tried or mentioning MDD compliance in GALILEO's specification.

As far as I know there are just a few European brand names of vibration training device are MDD certified, like FITVIBE and GLOBUS.

TC

Who are the real players in the whole body vibration equipment market?

Which company offers the best bang for the buck?

Best commercial grade unit?
Best home unit?

Who can provide some answers?

Hello Scott,

Some months ago, Fitness Management Magazine conducted an evaluation on a number of popular brands/models of WBV device.

You may take a look of their review.

Hope this information helps.

TC

Important to note that the machines in that study where not tested to any engineering standard. The specs where given by the manufacturor and should be treated as marketing.

Tc,

I can guarantee you every Galileo is medically certified. I suggest you contact the manufacturers novotec medical if you require more information.

The other systems that you mention only have one model which meets MDD and none are these are pivotal.

I do find your comments subjective and you should not dismiss pivotal vibrations machines. There is a market for this area and the sooner you let go of your prejudices the sooner you can have an objective view on the different type of vibration systems. Your comments do not help people who visit this site and know nothing about vibration training. Your comments imply this is a competition between vertical and pivotal which it is not.
It's about people researching and finding the appropriate model for their needs.

Yes you are correct Kas ,

But the Pivotal salespeople do themselves n