They're just preying on the fact that many people will do anything to avoid REAL exercise and are forever looking for that magic bullet shortcut.

Not that it's an excuse for trying to rip people off...

Vic

Finally! Sal that is some good honest to goodness deconstruction of B.S

WBV has one clear cut winner in all of this. The Galilleo/Vibraflex system. The research is solid, peer reviewed, and independent.
This device seems to be the research reason why WBV is picking up speed and the others are just "jumping on the bandwagon". I bought one for my studio and have had good results with clients over the past 4 months.

oh yeah here is their link www.vibraflex.com

derek:
it doesn't matter what company makes this type of machine, as they are all junk.

as a matter of fact, the flawed study that i mention above in which 50 post-menopausal who were taking Fosomax used WBV, involved the Gallileo contraption.

what possible good result could you have acheived in a 4 month period?

Sal: I hear ya but dont throw the baby out with the bath water. i agree it is not the "be all end all" but there is substantial research besides what you mentioned. I followed nearly the same path you did but found a researcher at the NSCA conference who was more of a skeptic than I was and he turned me on to the differences. Trust me I am with you on the BS side of research methods but do a little re-digging on this one and you may be pleasantly surprised. Check the site biblio....it is either www.vibraflex.com or Galileo, I cant spell it.

trust me b4 I dropped 10k I read every one of those studies and got on myself.

I found this blog by total accident...I am glad. nice work

I tried one of these machines and it vibrated my wallet right out of my pocket and then vibrated hundreds of dollars out of the wallet!

Some stupid people will do anything to avoid getting off the fucking couch and putting down the Doritos. Here's a bestselling, surefire fitness plan: Move more, eat less. That'll be $5000.

Don't except bull but don't be closed minded either.

Here is what I came up with during an exhaustive review of WBV.
There are two schools of thought:
1. Straight up and Down motion at speeds(htz) above 30 (power plate, hypergravity, Vibrogym)
2. teeter tooter (balance board) movement at speeds 1-30 htz. (Vibraflex, GAllieo)

The theory behind the two are distinct.
1. PP, etc... it seems tried to elicit a tetonic response
2. Vibraflex, Gallileo, tried to elicit the involuntary stretch reflex (think patella tap) which has been verifed to fire maximally on average at about 20-27 htz (EMG verified).
The planes of motions are also important. I could not figure it out why they just did not choose a motion and apply the different htz but I found out it boils down to a patent. The balance board motion was patented and so no one could copy the Vibraflex/galielo group. OK so my next challenge was seperating all of the research into garbage and decent stuff. Once you seperate the two motions and speeds it becomes lopsided. The Galileo/Vibraflex kills,except for a couple of research docs which I thought were not set up very well(the bone density one Sal mentions was one of three) the rest stood up well. Good researchers, good programs, decent methods for this Galilleo group. The PP was also putting their competitors research on their site and hoping/praying that no one would see that they were espousing the benefits of the research on a device that was not theirs....not a good way to get me to trust them. They have taken it off since and the list is way smaller but still I wanted to see for myself.
Then I got on each one. I liked the PP except the eye pressure made me nervous and they kept making me bend way down into a 90 degree squat, it was weird, why could I not just slightly bend without pain? next was the Vibraflex, it was intense but still somehow felt good, it was a strange feeling. I could not find any detailed commentary in the research on how the subjects described the feeling, not hard enough science I suppose. Anyways, I asked the Vibraflex rep and he had absolutely no good answer as to why it felt different. This is where the researcher at the NSCA last yr got me interested. The teeter tooter (balance board motion) is the natural ambulatory motion, one hip hiking one dropping, etc... The combination of the reflex firing and the natural motion makes the Vibraflex work. It made sense now. I consider it a motor recruitment and circulation tool and so it will be an important PART of my program for my athletes and clients. Not the only part but I have to say I like it way more than I thought I would. The way I see it is that the motor recruitment/neural component is the least understood, most difficult to measure, and so it does require more research as to the mechanism and truly may be awhile before we understand it fully or we may never understand it fully...but it is here to stay. i sent my athletes into pre season with vastly improved reaction times and they were setting personal bests all summer. I also tried it with the "civilians" and they had both positive acute responses and have maintained improvements throughout....hey you all have the benefit of a lot of soul searching because I really wanted to buy a new power rack and a woodway treadmill...

all the techno-jargon does is purposely confuse/intimidate people to cover for the fact that there is not a shred of research to justify the use of the extremely costly WBV gadgets in place of traditional and proven methods of exercise.

feel free to provide links to any research data that you feel proves that WBV is effective.

Sal: the "techno jargon" you mention is basic physiology, you seem to have formed an opinion upon the understanding of that same basic science so you at least owe it to yourself and the blog to counter the argument with some more facts...that is the definition of debate. As I said I think you have good points about the Powerplate being garbage and a few of the studies being weak but this technology has potential and if you disagree by saying there is not a "shred of research" and there is, well then you become the BS. I will try to find the link and send it to you. I only have the hard copies that i printed.

it is on the Vibraflex site www.vibraflex.com

I will try to find the exact link for research on the page and outline which studies impressed me

in an effort to clarify, i think wbv is garbage. the different machines are just different brands of garbage.

the techno-jargon used in the marketing materials is not basic physiology, but irrelevant science that is being severely misapplied misrepresented.

and it is more than just a few bad studies; all of the studies that have been provided by proponents of wbv are demonstrably flawed.

Sal: Regardless of your opinion of WBV, I did my due deligence and if you challenge my understanding of the science you had better bring your textbooks to the blog for the next week. Your blanket statements and summaries make you sound like a "bad talk radio" caller.

Significant results in a study done by Univ of Miami School of medicine: Researcher was the former Strength Coach of the University of Miami and went on to be the Director of the Miami Project for paralysis (christopher Reeve Project for Paralysis) I would guess he would not buy garbage...

I have some patients which I thought would benefit from the pelvic wall strength improvements. Here is a study which showed significant improvement. This German has extremely forward health care philosophy's so I thought this was a very good study.

Although this was a postmenoposal research study it confirmed my thoughts on the neural mechanism being the key to the WBV Vibraflex due to summary notes stating that it had a concurrent increase in power and velocity but a neutral effect on force. I realized the neural component was also where I could improve movement patterns for my pro athletes with past injuries which inhibited their movements vis a vis, apprehension, etc..

This study was interesting because I wondered about the long range benefits. I was convinced of the acute benefits and this study sealed the deal on my long term considerations. I still cannot understand why in the short term strength decreased and after 6 months bone density increased but nevertheless the results were significant and i dont pretend to know everything.

Sal: digest all of those studies and perhaps we can continue a science based discussion on how all WBV is not the same and that although the powerplate and some of the other BS platforms are garbage the one I spent my "hard earned" money on, Vibraflex, has enough research to convince the people who actually know what the hell we are doing to buy it....or just tell everyone the world is flat and fire comes from a firegod....

derek:
the study that you provide the link to on the orthometrix site doesn't involve a control group, but looks at one group of 20 people all standing on the vibration gadget, and then some measurements were taken.

i don't care who the authors are, a flawed study is a flawed study.

this is just another case of another flawed study conducted by people that have an agenda, just like in the study involving hamstring flexibility that was provided by the hypergravity people.

if this study that you provide for us was legit there would have been other groups involved. since you obviously didn't read the entire critque above i suggest that you familiarize yourself with the concept of control groups.

and since you seem to think that this study proves the efficacy of WBV why don't you explain for us why the increased knee torque experienced by subjects in this study is so earthshattering.

furthermore, you haven't told us what kind of success that you've acheived in 4 months with equipment that costs many thousands of dollars, and why this "success" is better than anything that could be accomplished with other, proven, non-equipment based, less-expensive options.

and the study on WBV and it's affect on stress incontinence is flawed in that in all three groups, wbv training was used in conjunction with other modes of treatment. given this feature of the study there is no way to make the assumption, as the researchers do in this case, that WBV had any role in improving a person's continence.

Sal: You are way off base on assumptions

First off this is INDEPENDENT research!!! Researchers must disclose if they are sponsored. Think GATORADE studies sponsored by GATORADE. You better not have ever had a a gatorade if you are serious about that philosophy of yours. THE GROUP I CHOOSE, VIBRAFLEX, ARE NOT SPONSORING ANYTHING. No plot to take over the world one platform at a time, just a bunch of four eyed researchers trying to stay employed by their respective universities.

Second assumption: These are research subjects, they fill out questionaires. To qualify for any Stress incontinence study you have to have been diagnosed and treated with P.T. And so the study was done in conjunction with P.T. READ THE STUDY

THird Assumption: No one is saying that ALL YOU NEED IS WBV. JUst like no one says ALL YOU NEED ARE PLYO's or ALL YOU NEED IS TO STRETCH. I began this blog agreeing with you on this important point but you are going overboard. Research studies must eliminate certain outside variables and include others. Would a person with stress incontinence be told all they need is WBV? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Should they be told to use it in conjunction with a carefully constructed P.T program, YES, IF THEY HAVE RESEARCH. SEE ABOVE....AGAIN

Fourth Assumption:

Four months are not enough time to get improvement. THis is just nuts. First off most of the research studies that have changed the entire Strength and CONditioning field and PT field are 8-12 week studies. Quick math...12 weeks=3months<4 months= there goes another one of your increasingly wild assumptions.The seminole periodization studies were 12 weeks so where the strength studies, creatine studies. Entire collegiate programs and Pro programs with brilliant coaches who have dedicated their careers to understanding human performance are shaped by studies which are 3 months long. OF COURSE 4 MONTHS IS AN ACCEPTABLE TIME FRAME FOR THE MEASUREMENT OF EFFICACY. I will post some results if I need to but I can say anything, why not read what the research says....and I have 6 other studies to still send you.

Fifth assumption= Percent increases dont matter.You obviously do not train athletes where half a step is = to millions of dollars. Do you care if your running back runs a 4.9 instead of a 4.5? Why do you care? that is only a .4 difference? The entire field of study of strength and conditioning examines how to get incremental consistent improvement so that is why increased knee torque results are important.

Again just listen to what I am saying. All WBV is not the same. There is a superior device, the Vibraflex. you were exposed to the shit side of WBV and now you are being exposed to the up side.

I hope for a better response....

Research study done by the NYU school of medicine and the Rusk institute,arguably one of the top 10 research facilities (Spinal cord) in the U.S

Small group due to limitations on spinal cord injury subjects but results promising enough to be published.

http://www.orthometrix.net/downloads/article-10.pdf

Bosco was considered one of the best researchers in Human performance. He CLEARLY supports the Vibraflex in this study (26htz) and then goes on to conservatively say it is not a "substitute" but an promising "addition". He shows significant results.

once again, a study that focuses on the infirm...the results of this study in no way translate to any member of the general population that does not have a spinal cord injury.

the results of this study in no way justify the use of WBV with members of the general population and does not show that WBV can deliver any of the benefits provided by traditional modes of exercise. when you consider that these gadgets can cost upwards of $10,000, WBV training is a loser for 99.99% of the population.

it's great if WBV provides some benefits for those people who are unfortunate enough to have severely compromised nervous systems and are paralyzed as a result of a spinal cord injury. but the reality is that WBV is useless otherwise, but this data does not pertain to the general population.

and rather than parrot the line of the WBV industry why haven't you shared your success stories with us?

Bosco uses your control group exactly as you want in this study. NO STRENGTH TRAINING vs. JUST VIBRAFLEX WBV and the group is active as they were a italian univ team.

Also, I hope you are reading these studies correctly. When u see a .07 that does not mean .07 inches that is the statistical variance from standard deviation.

i don't care who bosco is, the study referenced in the above link compares vertical jump performance between two groups; one group that was subjected to WBV and the control group that did nothing. in the study the author writes that it was expected that the control group would show no improvement in jump performance because itis understood that inactivity cannot improve performance. this is axiomatic.

the data from this study is comparing apples and oranges.

given that all of your studies come from the same web site - the site of a WBV huckster - it is not surprising that all of these studies are so spectacularly flawed that their conclusions are rendered irrelevant.

furthermore, all of these studies are short term and involve people who have never been exposed to WBV training before. these studies do not expose subjects to chronic WBVs because A)it's unsafe and B) there is no long-term, continual benefit from WBV. and there is never a control group that engages in dynamic exercise in these studies because this group would show more improvement - at less cost - than the WBV group.

and again, please share with us your WBV success stories.

I have a feeling short of "jesus" himself multiplying you into 20 people and dividing you into a control group and a subject group you are not going to carefully examine the differences in this technology. That is great! Hopefully many people follow your lead and people like myself who actually read and research will continue to succeed.

That's enough for me. I laid out my case pretty thoroughly for everyone to read.

GOOD LUCK

P.S I train/trained 14 pro athletes this year and sent them to their respective camps with personal best in Power Cleans, and a battery of flexibility tests. I also trained 8 mom's, 16 dad's, and 2 grandmom's each one has had steady improvement in strength and flexibility and subjectively reported to feel great. I added Vibraflex WBV to their programs at the beggining of each.

See ya

no you misread the Bosco study again. It clearly says they participated in sport as they were in season.

WOW

chronic WBV in the studies you elude to are 6-8 hrs long in a workplace setting. again you are wrong and making wild assumptions.

Also the studies on the site AGAIN are indpendent. SO what that they post them on the site. see below the difference between independent ans sponsored

Also, most studies are short term in nature 8-16 weeks. Again you are wrong in your assumption

You are starting to look like the "huckster" as you dig in to not make yourself look goofy

you are on "tilt" and just pulling things out of no where, next you are going to link the Tobacco companies to these poor bastards at Vibraflex trying to market a product that could help many people. i didnt mind and agreed when you went after the BS at Powerplate and Hypergravity but you never gave an inch that these products could be different from one that has a different speed and motion and that meant i didnt know what I am doing when I bought it and the results I have seen were random...I cant take that sitting down, my man.

If this were a game, i would be sending in the 4th quarter subs at this point so let me just say GOOD GAME COACH

derek:
keep talking and i'll keep correcting you...you really have no idea what you are talking about.

the bosco study is fatally flawed because in the study itself the control group did nothing immediately preceeding their jump test while the other group was active immediately preceeding their jump test. this is a flawed study, and a study that was designed to illicit positive results.

and these studies are NOT chronic as bosco himself concludes that studies need to be performed in order to study the chronic effects of WBV. 8-16 weeks is not long term.

you could at least read the entire study before you comment on it.

and please provide your success stories for us. what results?

1. You are very far from correcting me in anything my friend

2. All subjects in the Cardinale/Bosco were given "25 minute ergometer warm up"

2.5 - What motivation does Bosco have to try to illicit postive results? he has no stake in the success or failure of any of his research as he is INDEPENDENT.
3. Most research ends with comments such as "more research needs to be performed" etc...it allows for expansion on their research. Instead focus on the significant statistical improivements which he clearly outlines. You see they MATHEMATICALLY prove things instead of just trying to sound really confident like certain Blog Hosts.
4. I have read allof them and you should too instead of the goofy ones on the Powerplate site.

Listen, dont decide something and then try to find facts for your decision. First Find facts and then decide. I am offering lots of info that you are only responding to with minor points, take that into consideration and soften your stance on this particular group. As I said you were right abou the others.

bosco warm up was actually 25 watts for 5 minutes ALL subjects. not 25 mins

Sal,

I just have two questions. What is your educational background? Where did you earn your degrees and in what area of study?

Thanks for your time?

My main problem is that companies like Vibra-Flex etc do not disclose before their research, that Pivitol and Lineal machines are opposites of each other. They do NOT do the same thing , and it reeks of bad marketing to not even mention that important point.
Or why wouldnt they ?

They just forgot ?

And all the researh today says we know bugger all about Myotatic reflexes , involuntary reflexes and fight or flight responses in humans.

And we arent going to learn much from testing 19yr old uni students over a 6 week period looking at vertical jump hight ?.

The machines built today are only the beginning tools to understand how this could effect real peoples lives and a large scale population.

I have said it before , there is no place for "marketers" in such a new industry with so much research to do before we can even take ourselves seriously.
Let alone the public.

I will make a promise to Sal M right here and now. I only created my company to solve a problem. Not to rip people off in any manor. Or i would still be Power-Plates Product Manager and being paid lots to keep my mouth shut.

I want a chance to significantly drop the rate of Type 2 Dia / septic ulsers and amputations as a direct result of obesity. Over 25% of my customers are sponsored and do not pay for their treatment. You can check on that if you want.

And i dont sell machines to the public. Ever.

Vibration training has promise , but it can never be explored or developed while we have companys that are so caught up on sales as to say anything to get one.

I hope one day Sal M can blog here , saying he was wrong about some of us. And that we did help.

I've watched Sal's Healthy Skeptic blog with much amusement as he attacks the concept of Whole Body Vibration and any researcher who has conducted a study that is not up to Sal's standards. (When did he become the great arbiter of such things anyway? When he signed on as a coach in a New Jersey high school?) As Hypergravity's sales manager, I feel I have to speak up, since he has come out of nowhere and started attacking our company.

Sal, may I ask, what did we ever do to you?

First of all, repeatedly ridiculing spelling mistakes on our old website is in such poor taste. The gentleman who wrote the text on the old site is over 70 years old and speaks 7 languages, of which, English is his fifth. Call me when you've mastered even 2 languages, and then we'll discuss spelling errors.

It is true that we had put together a page that contained links to many studies that were performed with Whole Body Vibration platforms, but nowhere did we state an opinion on them. We merely have tried to show the public what studies are out there, warts and all. Yes there are good studies. Yes there are bad studies. Some of the studies, such as those performed by Galileo/Vibraflex are conducted on pivotal vibration devices which affect the body differently than the linear vibration units we make. They are not better or worse, they're only different. In fact, we only made reference to a couple studies on our Benefits page. I remember seeing one of them mentioned by a doctor on your previous page but I don't think you ever answered him/her and I don't have time to sift through the 100+ responses to check, so here it is again:

Effect of vibratory stimulation training on maximal force and flexibility.

Journal of Sports Science 1994 Dec;12(6):561-6.

Issurin VB, Liebermann DG, Tenenbaum G.

Ribstein Centre for Research and Sport Medicine Sciences, Wingate Institute, Wingate Post, Israel.

In this study, we investigated a new method of training for maximal strength and flexibility, which included exertion with superimposed vibration (vibratory stimulation, VS) on target muscles. Twenty-eight male athletes were divided into three groups, and trained three times a week for 3 weeks in one of the following conditions: (A) conventional exercises for strength of the arms and VS stretching exercises for the legs; (B) VS strength exercises for the arms and conventional stretching exercises for the legs; (C) irrelevant training (control group). The vibration was applied at 44 Hz while its amplitude was 3 mm. The effect of training was evaluated by means of isotonic maximal force, heel-to-heel length in the two-leg split across, and flex-and-reach test for body flexion. The VS strength training yielded an average increase in isotonic maximal strength of 49.8%, compared with an average gain of 16% with conventional training, while no gain was observed for the control group. The VS flexibility training resulted in an average gain in the legs split of 14.5 cm compared with 4.1 cm for the conventional training and 2 cm for the control groups, respectively. The ANOVA revealed significant pre-post training effects and an interaction between pre-post training and 'treatment' effects (P < 0.001) for the isotonic maximal force and both flexibility tests. It was concluded that superimposed vibrations applied for short periods allow for increased gains in maximal strength and flexibility.

This is a well designed study conducted not on the elderly but on 28 young, healthy, males. They even used a control group. (I'm sure it was because they didn't want to incur the wrath of Sal the great research design guru) Anyway, let's compare:

GROUP. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .ISOTONIC MAXIMAL STRENGTH
Vibration Training . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 49.8%
Conventional Training. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 16%
Control Group . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 0%

GROUP . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LEG SPLIT FLEXIBILITY
Vibration Training . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 14.5 cm
Conventional Training . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 4.1 cm
Control Group. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 2 cm

Now, let me make a big disclaimer. Although this research may strongly support the great potential that WBV has as a form of exercise, we are not trying to say (and never will say) that this should replace conventional exercise. Far from it! The more active people are, the better. The absolute fact that nobody can argue with is that WBV training makes your muscles do work. Period. And, if WBV is something that can motivate someone to get off the couch and get active again, GREAT!

Like I said, I have been following this blog for a while and I have come to admire Lloyd's candor from afar. He seems to be an honorable guy with a genuine interest in advancing public knowledge about WBV, while exposing the paranoid speculation (and often outright lies) of some in this industry who are less than scrupulous. He understands, as I do, that there is a need for much more research into the various applications of WBV, but let's make no mistake: there ARE documented health benefits to using WBV.

I know because I hear about them first-hand. Yes, my job is to sell a product, but I love what I do because it's a product I can believe in and I can honestly say I go to sleep at night knowing I helped people. Regardless of what any skeptics can say against a handful of Whole Body Vibration studies, I continue to get calls from people who love to tell me how their Hypergravity is helping them lose weight, or tone up, or relieve their fibromyalgia, or lower their blood pressure, or eliminate their plantar fasciitis, or just simply regain enough energy to play a full 18 holes of golf, and I could go on for hours! These people were SICK AND TIRED of being SICK AND TIRED because all their doctors knew to do was prescribe another pill to mask their symptoms instead of solve their problems! You have no idea how incredibly grateful they are. We become like part of their family. They send cards at Christmas or Hanukkah, and invite us to their kid's birthday parties. And we go!

And, Sal, no matter how much you try to dismantle other people's research, you can never--and I mean NEVER--take away what we have given to these people. Just because it is anecdotal, doesn't make it less real, and I DARE you to tell these mothers, fathers and grandparents that their stories--their struggles and their triumphs--are worthless and have no meaning! I dare you.

Christopher

P.S. Let's remember you STILL have never even tried one of these machines yourself.

well said Mr or Mrs. Hypergravity...except that the weight loss claim is a streeeetttttccccchhhh for WBV...watch out for making claims that are unsubstantiated, that is what gets you all in trouble but if people like your product and it helps them, god bless them and good luck.
I am deleting this from my Blog list. I will look for others which are more helpful in assessing and evaluatiing these claims and more important for me discussing techniques on how to use.

I just wanted to see if the blog host had a final response to any of what I posted.

Also, The pivotal and straight up down motion was compared and evaluated in a BYU study posted on the Powerplate site and showed an advantage in favor of the pivotal (more quad, ham, and gluteal activation) so I have no idea why it is on the PP site and not on the Vibraflex/Galileo site.

Derek

I should remind everyone that these are not my claims, these are simply people's testimonials to me. I don't have any control or influence over what they say. I'm just telling you what I was told.

For instance, here's a weight loss claim by Judy Caspe, a lady who runs a medspa and has her own radio program called Spa Talk LA. She failed to cut any calories and lost 6 pounds using nothing but Hypergravity for 12-15 minutes every other day. Sher also had this to say: "The machine is great, it does provide the missing exercise in my life! My body wants to use the machine now. I do not dread exercising now, I look forward to it." Read for yourself...

This is exactly what I'm talking about--we are finally starting to take the drudgery out of fitness!

Christopher

I am still waiting on the expert to respond to post #34.

Hi,

I hope you are well and healthy.

I have attached some studies that may interest you: these where done on the VibroGym when it was called the Powerplate (please note the Powerplate is now a completely different machine). The studies are on an ACL injury repair and Fibromyalgia.

These studies show that Vibration Therapy/Training is valid way of exercising and has many benefits.

Some more studies are available on this site.

The research on this page also shows that the VibroGym is gaining credibility and is very superior to its many copies and imitations. I am keen to read about your thoughts about these studies.

The VibroGym is now available in over 70 locations in Australia and NZ!

Our certified trainers at these locations are helping clients define goals and are creating programs that will help them achieve those goals. The VibroGym is available at Gyms, Personal Training Studios, Physio's, Chiropractors, Beauty Salons, Day Spa's and Weight Loss Centres.

A VibroGym session takes just 15 minutes, three times a week to strengthen, tone and revitalize your body. And at only $10-20 per session, VibroGym is affordable and it works. Some of these centres are seeing over 30 people a day on their machine!

The VibroGym is helping people lose weight, tone up, increasing their flexibility, lose cellulite, recover from an injury, decreasing back pain, increasing balance and stability and gain strength. Users include people who are over 100kg, MS sufferers, wheelchair users, Cystic Fibrosis sufferers, athletes, celebs, sports teams, Parkinsons sufferers, diabetics, fibromyalgia sufferers, the elderly and overweight children.

The VibroGym has appeared in UltraFit Magazine, Womens Health and Fitness, Inside Sport, Alpha Magazine, The Age, The Sun Herald and will feature in Womens Weekly, Cleo and Cosmo soon.

Some new exciting studies will be coming from Universities in Australia and NZ in the future, they have just started and we expect the results to be very promising.

I have some new testimonials that you may like to read and I hope you enjoy reading them and I look forward to your comments.

Kind regards

Dan Fivey
[Personal contact info deleted]

Has any-one out there had a negative expierience using WBV therapy?

Vibration training is not the ultimate training tool, as some people or companies want us to believe. It is just a new training methodology that has a partial beneficial influence in enhancing performance. To combine training methods will always have the best results and certainly vibration training could have a small contribution to this. View a scientific approach which is different than the majority out there here

If I may broaden this conversation to some general truths: 1/Scientific studies are almost always flawed. Sometimes they're fraudulent, sometimes not. Sometimes the flaws are immediately apparent, sometimes it takes years to discover them. Acting on scientific studies only will rarely get you the desired results. 2/Anecdotal evidence is merely someone else's story. If you trust the party, one story may be convincing, if the parties are unknown to you, no number of stories is satisfactory. 3/ subjective evidence is your own story. If scientific and/or anecdotal evidence conflicts with your own experience, you -might- be wrong,(kidding yourself), but just as likely, the science just hasn't caught up with the reality...My subjective reality your anecdote. Science takes money, cooperation, ethics, expertise. Accurate subjectivity requires me paying attention to myself; personal science, if you will. If I lie, I lie to myself. Sal, you may have every traditionally scientific reason in the world to never try a vibration machine, but it isn't -your- science until you're the subject and the researcher. Trust noone. Do it yourself. Is everything in your life according to research you've read? You say you know enough about it, and don't need to find out for yourself. That in itself is a subjective decision, not scientific. There's nothing more satisfying than hearing a thousand opinions on a subject while knowing that your are the only one who was actually -there-. Be that person.

This is a second day of my inquiry after information on WBV platform, because it was after the third week of rehab on the platform, when I finally realised that the unnatural biting pain (diffrent one from normal sore muscels after harder workouts, or let say three days of skiing on the beginning of the season) in neck muscles, back muscles pain (especially trapesius), arms muscles and the elbow joint comes from exercises on such a platform. I think, it can not be from other exercices that I do within my rehab, or from what I do by myself at home, because the problems emmerged when I started to use the platform after it was installed in rehab center (in Bremen/Germany) just a month ago or so. I did several exercises on platform, but I think that the biggest culprit is particularly one exercise. The squat on one leg, with tighten and stretched arms, with the center of gravity almost out of the platform. The squat (with other platform exercises) I did 2 times per week in 3 series, each 2 minutes, 30 seconds pause in between, at 27Hz. As I already mentioned, I found the pain unnatural. The recovery also took unnaturaly long time, two weeks. It never happend to me before, and I am used to physical training and before the accident I did several sports regularly. My physiotherapist said that I had weeker back muscles, OK, could be, however, I am suspicious now, though I started with enthusiasm. My mind says to me, that it can not be good to vibrate the stretched and tighten muscles, relaxed OK, it's like a massage, but tighten ones. Now, when I start to be more critical, I must say, the vibrations of my whole body, seems to me not pleasant at all. I feel rather tired of those vibrations, and shaken. I decided not to continue to use the platform. First, I would like to understand the physiological process of muscles, tendons... under the impact of vibrations, so I have lot to do to find it out. I will start with papers from 1st American Conference on Human Vibration, in library. Some themes sounds interesting to me.
If someone will have some useful information to my case, I'll be thankfull.
K.

Yes...I have some useful information.

NEVER DO ONE LEGGED SQUATS ON A VIBRATION PLATFORM.
I banned them over 2 years ago.

The rebalancing responses caused during this pose creates un-natural/shearing pressure on the knee/hip flexor/lower back regions ( shearing is an inherent risk where vibrations and bio-machinaics are involved ).

It will eventually seperate the joints .

The one legged squat is recommended for elite athletes only , for short term ( 3 weeks ) during build up to an event .
Not physio.

For those of you who doubt this, watch the pose being held from behind. With 10 secs the standing leg will turn inwards . And the hip flexor will twist the opposite direction to counter the weight shift.

Unfortunatly your physio will be following a generic chart sold with the machine.

Thanks a lot for the fast response Lloyd.
I am very glad to have this information.

Katarina

Hi everyone,

I'm announcing my resignation from Hypergravity.

I'm not going to discuss the circumstances surrounding my decision to leave, but suffice it to say I left of my own free will for reasons of conscience.

From now on when I post on this board it will be under my own name.

Best regards,

Christopher

Bosco had a PhD in Sports Medicine and did 30 years of studies on many different strength-development techniques. He worked with olympic athletes and teams etc.

I have read in detail many of the studies mentioned. Some of these were not well performed, but Sols critics of the osteoporosis paper is not justified. The control group was also taking a recognised anti-osteoporotic drug so bone mineral density might under these cicunmstances not be enhanced with WBV, A recognised (albeit subjective) method was used to asses pain. There are many instances where patients subjective assessment is the only way to indicate imprvement or not. I think that many of Sols comments are in fact very misleading. What is cler however that WBV cannot replace training as the cardio vascular system is not trained. So the WBV does not replace other forms of training at all.

It is only designed for resistance type training. Movement and pressure. Thats all , if anyone has mislead you into thinking it's cardio , they where wrong to do so.

I have read this blog and have to unfortunately admit that it has generated more questions than answers that I had hoped for.

It turns out that PowerPlate head office is just couple of miles from my apartment. I actually went there and tried it out for 15 - 20 minutes and it did feel good. This is not a conclusion though. One thing for sure that I got out of this discussion is that it is not worth taking a risk of $ 2k - $9k for these machines. I know those vibration AB Belts don't work but if I were to try it out, I was risking only $45, what the heck, let's try it. But not with the money that the WBV machines are charging. I really don't know if they cost that much, but if they really want to market them to the masses then the prices have to come down.

My wife had a good suggestion - she said that join a fitness center that has one of these. Unfortunately the couple of them that I called up don't have it. One that has is about an 1 hour's drive from my place :(

I am in Buffalo Grove, IL - anyone knows any fitness centers / studios around who have the WBV's?

To add to all this confusion there seem to be so many of the WBV's out there, each claiming that the other's are clones or substandard! I guess only time will tell if the WBV's really work and I hope they do 'coz the next time such a new product is advertised I certainly will start with being an atheist rather than hoping that it works.

Anyway given the fact that I don't intend to shelve out (even though I can afford) the $4k for these machines, I found some cheaper ones that cost about $400. Are these ok? I know that they won't be what a $9k machine gives, but then if it is ok for personal use, then I don't mind risking that amount.

The two that I have seen close to the $400 tag are:

1. HealthMark VibraFit &
2. Power Fitness Deluxe Vibration Plate (Crazy Fit Massager)
3. Soloflex

Any comments on any of these three or additions to the above lsit?

Thanks in advance.

Suharsh, spend your money on a gym membership at the gym you're most likely to go to at least three times a week. Don't worry about the vibrating nonsense.

Just read HyperGravity's post:

'I'm announcing my resignation from Hypergravity.

I'm not going to discuss the circumstances surrounding my decision to leave, but suffice it to say I left of my own free will for reasons of conscience.'

God!!! After the propagonda, you are saying that you are leaving HG because of 'conscience'. What do we read out of this? That you were aware that it is not helpful and yet you are selling it!

Am I mis-interpreting this? I hope Christopher you come out and clarify this.

Ofcourse given the given technical limitation, I might even sign up as HyperGravity and say that I have joined them again!!!

You are all wise to ask the hard questions before buying or using these machines.

The major brand you talk of , had a production cost of less than E700. And that was for the large proffesional unit (RRP 9k ).

Go to www. vibrationtraining . net to see the court documents.

The smallest units I developed for my studios ( The Bullet ) cost me 12k just to build.

The very cheap units you talk of are Therapy machines. Nothing more. If that is what you are looking for then go for it.
If you want a workout. Leave them alone.

Interesting to read how people tend to react on subjects. I started in 1999 and after my athletes (T&F, 47 secs on 400m) improved 20% in 4 months, where we already used to do a lot of powertraining, and some guests (olympic level) improved up to 100% in 3 months (also due to bad training programs) I was convinced that - if used correctly - the gains of WBV were tremendous. As we work a lot in medical centres it became obvious that the effects on low taxable and injured people were even more impressive. Now over 80 publications coming from over 50 different universities support the effect of the Galileo only. Other (vertical) systems have also some positive effects, but much less and with much less possibilities.
Sal, I wonder what your experiences are with this type of stimulation, as also all scientists I spoke with did not expect the sensation and clinical effects before they tried out themselves.

Short addition to previous mail: it was 20% improvement in squats. The improvement of sprint times are of course the result of many training forms together.
I can remember one Olympic discus thrower (66+ m) telling me that he could do the double in training. Not very wise, as he should have used the improvement in gaining better recovery.

You say that " only " the Galileo had positive effects. Which implies other units where also tested alongside the Galileo.

What where the names of the other machines used in the studies ?

Not supplying this information puts you at risk of looking like a salesman. Even though your attempt to compare Pivital with Lineal already puts you in the " marketers only " category.

Lloyd Shaw
January 24th, 2007
POWER-PLATE CAUGHT RED HANDED

Mr Chris Bantin
75 Manoor Park Drive
Yateley
Hants
GU46 6JZ

27/02/06

To whom it may concern,

This is a letter with reference to the articals thet Power Plate have been placing in magazines.

The artical seeks to imply that I have been helped by PowerPlate in the past and I am endorsing them for othered disabled people. Both of these implications are false.

Everything about my experiences and the benifits I felt are true but it all relates to the machine now know as the Vibro-Gym and Kevin Barkclay web.

I do believe Vibration training is of tremendous benefit to bisabled people but I do not want them to be misled by unscrupulous marketing.

Yours Truly
Chris Bantin

The artical advert printed in D&CS FITNESS ( Disabled and supportive care mag )

It does imply all the way through the artical that Chris Bantin has been helped by Power-Plate and endorses it for everbody.

Now also remeber this was the new Chinese built unit that had massive problems from day one. So why would Power-Plate even let a disabled person near an uncalibrated unit.

Power-Plate once again shows us what they stand for.

Lloyd Shaw

Check the above URL from NIH, gov website.

Lloyd Shaw
January 25th, 2007
Discrimination against the overweight with some weight loss machines ?

Are companies producing low quality Vibration Training units discriminating against obese people by having low " dynamic load " specs ?

This is the point where the machine loses speed and amplitude due to a load threshold being exceeded.

I will be looking at this closer in the future. With tests on popular brands being released. One brand already coming up short at only 80kg.

In the mean time a discussion around the ethics of this would be valuable

Lloyd. I totally agree, we should expose unethical companies. However i do wonder if you are trying to discredit certain views & research to promote your own product?

No , my company is doing well as a RESULT of having strict guidelines surrounding these issues to begin with.

I personally find it incomprehensable as a designer to manufacturer a weight loss unit with such low specs.

My main concern are for those individuals who do everything right , for once they take action after being told none would cost them their life or a leg at least. ( I see this daily at my mortuary ) They buy a home unit , or use a cheaply constucted unit at a studio used by some unethical company , complete the program and still fail.

Not to sound too dramatic , but what are you going to say , sorry we were to cheap to build a unit that worked for someone your size. And forgot to tell you.

Better luck next time ?

I did not create the Laws of Physics , but it seems I will have to help police them.
As no-one else seems to be interested in anything other than lining their pockets. No matter what the cost.

And your concern for my motives are irrelevant.

I am either Right or Wrong . No gray area on this one.

I am glad you are doing well, you seem to have good intentions. But I had to ask you that question. You are very skeptical of any system on this site that has been talked about postively.

I did a lot or research and trials of vibration equipment before I purchased the Galileo Sport and I'm pretty confident I bought the right machine. However I have just read Dereks comments on Boscos research and your reply was "My main problem is that companies like Vibra-Flex etc do not disclose before their research, that Pivitol and Lineal machines are opposites of each other. They do NOT do the same thing , and it reeks of bad marketing to not even mention that important point". I would like to challenge that point -Galileo/Vibraflex always mention that they are different to Lineal machines. It is the Lineal companies who use the research based on Galileo pivotal systems who are quite happy to misinform their customers.

You also mentioned that you would like to see the research comparing Galileo to vertical plates. I'm sure I came across this when I was searching, but dont ask me to go through all those papers again!.

My point , that I will stick to is the Pivitol companies have never to my knowledge been any better than those companies like Power-Plate , and do not point out the " pros and cons " of both systems.

They just say " its better because...

you never hear " buts its not designed to....

A different point I would like to add. The first was about disclosing which machines the research was completed on. The 2nd point you mentioned is about companies pointing out the pros and cons of the two different systems.

Surely it is more unethical to promote your vibration system on research compiled using a totally different plate. I have looked at the WAVE site and see they are using the bed rest study (compiled using a pivitol system) to back up claims on their system. I was told this research paper intrigued the German Space research centre, who have been testing the pivitol system for suitability in space.

Every company will tell you the pros of their product, just like you do. Not all are going to tell you to go and buy a competitors because it has a better warranty etc. Of course if the system works in a certain way that is bad for your health then of course this should be stated. You make your choice on the system thats right for you and thats why its great to have these blogs, so people can make a informed decision.

The main thing here is for manufacturers to be honest with their marketing, however if their system is better than someone elses in certain areas what is wrong in promoting that fact.

You state
"what I will stick to is the Pivitol companies have never to my knowledge been any better than those companies like Power-Plate , and do not point out the " pros and cons " of both systems".

I do not know how you can make such a comment that pivotal companies are no better than powerplate. At least they use relevant research to back their systems, surely it is worse to have lineal companies using research which was compiled on a totally different system.

Pure science would dictate that only the " exact " machine used in the study ( as medical ethics require not even a bolt to be changed ) could only be used in the promotion of its effects.

The correct method is to put in a disclaimer stateing that those exact units are no longer built. But similar or better models will be supplied.
And supply the reasons for the changes. Better construction etc..

The simple lack of doing so has let people to believe the action , speed and amplitude of the device is all they have to look for.

And it also hasnt helped their cause hiring salesman who compare Pivital and Lineal systems. When in fact they should have been seperated for their differences.

I for one will not be taking them seriously until I hear that happening.

The first thing I asked before I bought my system was what is the difference between Pivotal and Lineal. I'd imagine everyone asks this same question and it is important for people to know the difference.

I thought I'd go on your website Lloyd and see what you had to say. I found the pros clearly advertised, but not the cons!. However after a good search I did find a comparison to the 2 systems in one of your forums. I was surprised to see no mention of excess head vibrations or the lack of balance control on your machine.(I have not tried your machines so please tell me if im wrong)

I agree with you the industry does need a governing body to stop unscrupulous companies selling systems based on false claims, but that needs to be a independent unbias organisation. Yes, you have gained big brownie points with your informative views and exposure on bad practice, but if anyone tries to challenge your opinions you are very dismissive. Please try and be a bit more objective in your views. I'd like to think I made a well informed choice when I purchased my system, but your words imply I was probably duped into my purchase by a slick sales person, which was certainly not the case.

The reason I dont mention the lack of specific rebalancing exercises when mentioning Lineal units is, When someone places one foot on a Lineal unit and another on a solid surface ( step reebok etc.. ) the action becomes pivital.

So any lineal unit is dual use. Pivital is not.

Any trainer or salesman who cant work that out , should never be allowed near a machine or person.

As this is one of the most basic bio-machinical principles for the use of WBV.

Just a comment.
The first unit I ever built was Pitvol and Lineal.

The reason I didnt release it is I believe the world is only ready for one change at a time.

This is a big job , and we may not get a second chance to articulate this idea to the world.

Technology has been lost before by some VERY smart people , when this was not understood.

A very basic analogy I'm afraid and one a lineal/vertical sales person would probably use(your words). I guess you could use your example as a pivatol movement, but is it really as effective? I used to go to a lineal studio and from my experience I can tell you the intensity is not the same. Also, you never answered my question on head vibrations on lineal systems?

You state every good studio/gym should have both systems. Then on the other hand you state lineal systems are for dual use. I agree on a lot of your points but on this one we will have to disagree.

Ideally it would be good for an independent study to be carried out comparing all the different WBV systems.

I'd been interested to know if your systems have been part of any independent research study?

No independent team of researches exist in N.Z. at the moment , educated enough to carry out such a task.
Trust me I wish there was. Every meeting I have had with Universities have been with people that lack the basic knowledge in this field. That would make the tests safe.

I continually hear they want to test Calorie burn rates with CO2 emsn tests ?

Or they want to make people jump up and down on the units ?

There is no way I am giving a 180kg machine to anyone with such limited education.

The comment I made earlier about having both types of units , was in regards to "Therapy" studios.
As properly built Pivital units have better gait correction abilities than Lineal. And I believe mucking around with step-reeboks is unproffesional.

To recap..

I will put my reputation on the line in both statements.

Lineal, Pros...
higher body-composition change , body- fat% , muscle development upper and lower body , performance gains .

Cons... head vibration levels may irritate , but properly built units and positions should almost elliminate this.

Safest at higher Fq.. 38hz +

Pivitol, Pros... better for re-balancing issues , incontinence , gait correction , lower back and abdominal workout whilst standing.

Cons.... Limited in its design and motion for weight loss , upper body development .

Safest at -30Hz

Both systems are good for increasing bone density.

Lloyd Shaw
February 3rd, 2007
Just to let everyone know. We have an issues here in N.Z.

A certain so called "non-profit" organization ( Fitness N.Z. ) has given a retailer of fitness products the following.

(1) The CEO made a supposedly independent statement in a high profile fitness mag. " this company is the only one that employs qualified staff " Knowing no qualification exists in this field.

(2) A " Preffered Suppliers " award.

(3) A place on their board.

This particular person has been on our banned list for unethical business practices for some time , and was turned down for a purchase of a studio because of my concerns, which includes.

(1) Selling cheap Therapy units under the guise of Vibration Training.

(2) Although being a landlord , saw fit to go into direct competition with a Tenant. ( highly unethical )

(3) Knowingly useing other companies trademarked names to shift products.

(4) Using results from well known Training units to sell cheap asain Therapy machines to both Gyms and home users.

As having high business ethics could not have been the reason for these moves by Fitness N.Z. As one would expect with a " non-profit org" . I will leave it up to the readers to guess its motives.

But I think it would be fair to say , that Fitness N.Z. is not moving in a good direction.

An update on this soon.

Another dedicated Vibration Training link

The writing is on the wall...

ya ya ya.. my sentiments exactly...but i went and did it on a fluke ...and love it..
its not replacing my regular workout but very good .. dont knock it till you tried it

and my friend has had extremely good results with an arthritic knee.. under the care of her physio.. who monitors her vibration sessions..

I am pro-vibration training.

Just not pro marketers.

PowerPlate founder has propery confiscated...

Yesterday I won a judgement by the Ministry of Justice against Power-Plate by a District Court Judge.

The ruling was to help me clarify I was indeed Power-Plates Product Manager ( 2003-2004 ).

Power-Plate had recently tried to defend itself from my exposure of their unethical behaviour by claiming I never worked for them.

That was found untruthfull by the courts.

The good that can come from this , is people around the world who have a legal case against Power-Plate can now call on me as an expert witness.

Check out this list of celebrities and athletes who regularly use WBV as a part of their personal training routines. Wow there sure are a lot of suckers out there...according to Sal....

I think I'll take the following lists opinion over yours.......

Madonna (Musician), Jane Fonda (Actor), Lance Armstrong (Cyclist), Ivana Trump (Socialite), Shaquille O'Neal (LA Lakers), Julie Andrews (Actor), P. Diddy (musician), Clint Eastwood (Actor), Claudia Schiffer (model), Sir Anthony Hopkins (Actor), Prince Albert of Monaco, David Cone (NY Mets), Nick Nolte (Actor), Donatella Versace (designer) Eric Karros (Chicago Cubs), J.D. Drew (St. Louis Cardinals), Daren Holmes (Atlanta Braves), Larry Nelson (PGA Golfer), Doria Cook (Actress & Tai Chi Master), Craig T. Nelson (Actor), Heidi Klum (model), Don Johnson (Actor), King of Saudi Arabia, Anni Friesinger (2002 Olympic Gold Speed Skater)

Check out this list of sports teams that regularly use WBV as a part of their training routines
APC Ajax (National Soccer Champions, Holland), Boston Red Sox, Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Denver Nuggets, Dallas Mavericks, Detroit Lions, Germany National Bobsled Team, Glasgow Rangers Soccer Club, Green Bay Packers, Indiana Pacers, Kansas City Chiefs, Los Angeles Avengers (Arena Football), Memphis Grizzlies, Miami Dolphins, Nashville Predators, New York Giants, New York Mets, Oakland A's, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Pirates, Sacramento Kings, San Antonio Spurs, San Diego Chargers, San Diego Padres, St. Louis Cardinals, Tennessee Titans, Toronto Blue Jays

And check out these health and fitness centers that trust WBV as a routine part of their health and fitness regimens
Cal State Fullerton Fullerton, CA, Northwestern University Evanston, IL, Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN, Ohio State University Columbus, OH, Rutgers University New Jersey, NJ, UCLA Los Angeles, CA, University of Colorado Boulder, CO, University of Houston Houston, TX, University of Louisville Louisville, KY, University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE, University of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM, University of North Carolina North Carolina, NC, University of Oklahoma Norman, OK, University of Texas at Austin, TX, USC Los Angeles, CA, University of Washington Seattle, WA, United States Olympic Training Center

"I think I'll take the following lists opinion over yours..."

When someone says something like this, it is clear that nonsense is bound to follow. "fred," do you have any idea what led to the endorsements you list? Do you know whether the endorsees were paid? Whether the equipment was provided to them for free? Do you know whether the celebrity in question still uses the item? Do you know what results the celebrity saw from the itme? I can guarantee you that Heidi Klum hasn't been out of shape at any point in her adult life, so unless you're a supermodel to begin with, her experiences aren't even relevant to you (or me)!

It doesn't matter. You've already stated that reason and logic and science and facts and research and truth don't matter to you. Only what famous people say matters to you.

Apparently because famous people are smart. Um, yeah.

Amazing.

Celebrity endorsements are bought and paid for. I do not agree with them.

But Phillip if you are speaking of smarts...

Why have over 30 Medical Supply Companies worldwide invested R&D into Vibration Training/Therapy machines to date ?

I would love to hear your opinion on this.

That's easy -- medical supply companies sell medical supplies. Medical supplies are defined as "things which doctors, physical therapists, or hospitals will buy." They don't have to work well or at all. They just have to be sold. Doctors are suckers just like everybody else. If you personally know doctors, you'll know that they believe all sorts of silly things that aren't true, just like the rest of us.

It doesn't take "smarts" to see this. Just skepticism, and a willingness to go against the flow or marketing dollars.

Sad attempt at an answer Phillip.

So now you are smarter than ALL the Doctors as well ?

Talk about ego-maniac.

Lloyd, you're all over the map here, and making little sense. I've never claimed to be smarter than all doctors, and nobody who read my comment would believe that for even a second. I'm simply pointing out that doctors don't have time to read all the research any more than anybody else does. Smarter? Um, "just like the rest of us" doesn't seem like a statement of superiority to me.

You accuse me of being an egomaniac because I choose to rely on the research of doctors who've specifically studied these wiggle-plates rather than the opinion of random people with medical degrees who've never looked into the research? I would suggest that the real problem here is someone who ignores *all* research, proclaiming himself to know better than people who've dedication serious time, effort, and money to proving whether or not these things work.

They don't.

I have personally dealt with multiple universties on this subject. They are flying blind and only fake understanding to get grants.

Unethical and pathetic.

To prove my point. Look for one study with an engineers report attached to it. They dont even know what the machines is doing before they start. They totally trust the manufacturors specs.

So any results cannot be duplicated.

This is not science. And the results will appair random at best.

Example....

Chris Donaldson and Angus Ross did an independent study on the PowerPlate here at Otago University in N.Z. and commented on the following...

" vibration frq may be less than what some manufacturers claim "

Their experience with PowerPlate was so bad they even stated at the end of the study..

" WBV salesman will tell you anything "

An engineering test done by Vibration Consultants Ltd report reads...

" the PowerPlate...had an error of -35% and -41% in both settings "

The tests done to date have not been done by
" people who've dedication serious time, effort, and money to proving whether or not these things work." as you state. But by marketers disguised as academics.

So I understand your mistrust Phillip , but I still think you don't understand the real problem.

Acceleration Training and Vibration Training/Therapy is the same thing in case anyone hears the term from a marketing company and is confused.

VibraSlim a U.S./Canadian based company has been involved with Plagiarising an entire website for marketing purposes.

Absolute proof that this company is dishonest in nature and should not be trusted or traded with.

Hi: I have to share this with you. I review products. I reviewed the Soloflex WBV Platform. I didn't bash it at all. I did say (and at the time I wrote it I found information that it was classified as a Class A medical device. I got the following letter from the president of Soloflex,

"Dear Jo,

In your review of the Soloflex WBV Platform you cautioned that it may be harmful and that the FDA considers our product to be a Medical Device. Actually, the FDA considers our product to be an exercise device.

WBV is definitely injurious at high amplitudes/exposures (hence the established world-wide standards for allowable workplace exposure) but not at the low amplitudes and recommended exposures with our product. We now have tens of thousands of our platforms in use, many for over two years. Many of our customers are frail & elderly. Many have disabilities like MS, MD, CP, Parkinson's, stroks, etc. As these people can't exercise, WBV offers them the only possible way to get the vital benefits of exercise. These are the same people who would be detered from trying it if they thought it might injure them. Undoubtedly the commercial WBV platforms exceed the established limits for human exposure. Ours and the Juvent device clearly do not: www.juvent.com. After extensive testing at Georgia Tech Research Institute, we just received the Arthritis Foundation's Ease of Use Commendation.

Please consider revising your review with this new information in mind.

Jerry Wilson, pres.
Soloflex, Inc.

In my review I noted that Arthritis Today advertises this machine. I noted that Fitness Matters (I'm a certified personal trainer) said the verdict was out and was looking at the Power Plate. In any case I can't for the life of me find the info on the WBV being considered a class A medical device. Perhaps it has changed. The Soloflex site looks different than I remember it. In any case the jury is out. I'm confident of that and I liked Soloflex's products. I now have a really bad taste about them! jo

Note:
The ISO 2631 regulations for vibration exposure was not even mentioned or considered when designing the machines and programs , and I personally have letters from most of these companies argueing it didnt apply to this industry. After I released a warning to manufacturors in 2003.

I to am uncomfortable with people claiming these machines are medical devices yet and companies misleading consumers by failing to mention the true intended purpose of a unit.

Therapy or Training ?

No exercise is an island and neither is a machine.

I also would like to point out that SoloFlex uses other companies research to sell their own product.

Then claim those same units are unsafe.

Power Plate in trouble again. This time being caught using a world leading researchers name on their so called Medical Advisory Board.

This person has publically denied being involved or supporting the company.

Result ? They have been forced to take down every name from the list.

The academic community will not be happy with this and the backlash should come as a timely kick in the guts for a company that seems to know no ethical boundaries.

Lloyd Shaw tries to discredit everyone but himself and his associates. DO NOT believe a word he says!!! Do a search of his name on Google!! Lloyd Shaw

Lloyd Shaw, Self promoter and the source of so much misimformation it is ridiculous!!

Jason

Jason,

Your comment on Lloyd Shaw is not fair.

I do not know Lloyd in person because he is in New Zealand and I am in Hong Kong. I only know him by reading his threads and comments in different forums regarding Vibration Training.

Yes, he sounds very straight forward. Some people may find him nearly rude. It is also funny to see him pursuing after Power Plate. However, if he is saying what he believes, I would say his mentality is bearable. Furthermore, Lloyd does not discredit everyone as you said. I read some posts that he recommended some brands of vibration device which are his competitors in business.

Lloyd may also sound like a self-promoter in his threads or comments. i think it is because he really has good knowledge in vibration training from building a device to practice; and his knowledge make him full of self-confidence. Some of his comments maybe controversy, we can discuss on these area and wait for time to prove who is right.

If you find any of Lloyd's comment misleading, list them out for discussion.

Let's focus on seeking truth in vibration training.

TC

Yes Jason , please list one comment I have posted that is not true.

And I will supply hard evidence to back up every statement.

Man or mouse Mr Jason King ?

And it's good to see I am rattling a few cages out there.

Im up for it. Lets go.

Didn"t take much for Jason to run away. Pity.

Real Health Concerns Regarding Vibration Training


Note: Vibration Therapy/Training has been used successfully and safely for almost 100yrs. With no problems recorded. It is only of recent concern that marketers have jumped into this technology with no back knowledge and only sales in mind. Trust me I worked for them and their concern for your health is ZERO. Anything that may divert a sale will not be approached let alone researched. The programs I originally developed for PowerPlate where rejected due to complaints from their marketing department. Follow these and you will get all the benefits with none of the safety concerns.

Please read below for further details.
The unrestricted/unsupervised use of Vibration Training equipment has been a concern of mine since I first started writing original material in 2003. As Product Manager of Power-Plate I saw the potential for abuse of the units in several ways. With there refusal to acknowledge my concerns one of the reasons for my departure. Some of them being.
(1) Overuse
(2) Incorrect poses
(3) Incorrect Fq
I will list the reasons for these concerns and why I believe the sooner the "real" industry starts talking to each other and laying down some restrictions , the better.
Overuse
Symptoms....
(1) Chronic Fatigue....
This can cause everything from just plain tiredness to a massive drop in your immune system. Which can lead to other health disorders. This one is simple , you ask you body to do too much and it can't keep up. Think about this , in an average Vibration Training session you may do approx 30,000 separate movements. This is like running a marathon for most people, and because it is actually do-able for most people, it is primed for abuse. But your body simply can't expend that amount of energy and keep going for long. You will get sick eventually.
(2) Hyperthyroidism....
This is a state where your regulatory glands are over activated causing a large fluctuation in your hormone levels. This can lead to fluid retention , problems with hormone sensitive organs such as the ovaries (for woman). To its extreme this condition can cause multi organ failure.
Note: I have had one case reported to me so far from South Africa where a lady was using a plate for over 40mins a day. And she was following her instructors advice !! So this theory was not a fancy-full idea as was put to me when I first aired my concerns.
Unfortunatly I expect to hear about more such cases before anything concrete is done.
Tissue breakdown....
This is when the healing cycle is not allowed to complete itself. And your body breaks down more cells than it can rebuild before you re-damage the area. Long distance runners have always had this problem with their knees.
Incorrect poses.....
This one sounds self explanatory but it is obviously not, from what I have seen on many a Vibration Training poster sold with machines and on the net.
Your joints are only designed to work at high use at precise angles , moving away from these angles can cause unnecessary wear and tear. It can also cause neck injuries. That is where a good instructor is very important , they will re-correct you during your time on the units so no problems occur.
Incorrect Fq....
This is a tricky one as so may of the units available go to the lower Fq , hence people believe it must be safe. The fact is lower Fq should only be used for limited Physio programs due to the unsafe nature of what they call resonance Fq. This is where waves bounce off each other causing a disturbance in an area. In this case in your internal organs give off their own resonance and matching these is not a good idea. They range from 5Hz-20Hz. Again mis-use could cause disturbance to the organs function. Keeping away from these Fq by a factor of 10Hz should allow safe use of units over a lifetime.
Note: Some cheaply built units are NOT doing the Hz setting showed on the display. Some are slowing down with only a load of 20-80kg. One major brand was tested unloaded at it was still slower by 13hz than its advertised specs. And that was with no-one on it. !!!
Now this article was not written to scare anyone off Vibration Training , just to show how serious we are about putting up this type of training for scrutiny . We will never create a safe industry by burying potential problems as is the normal procedure for marketers and corporates .


Kind regards..... Lloyd Shaw........ Founder of Vibra-Train

It's very interesting to see all the opinions about WBV technique. Basically and grossly, there are two principles of the WBV machines, the "side alternating see-saw" and the "vertical" platforms.

I've personally tried both of the equipments (regardless of brands) and my honest feelings are that the Galileo (Vibraflex) feel definitely better and by reviewing the researhces posted by these two types of equipment that it seems that Galileo can do what the vertical equipment can do but NOT otherwise (assuming that NOT all researches are phoney).

Science is NOT based on arguing but rather you can produce "scentific proofs" or not. So, please enlighten me whether there are any quality researches or studies that can prove that there are areas where the vertical vibration can outperform the Galileo system.

Thanks for your advice..........

Destiny,

I have also tried both pivotal and lineal Whole Body Vibration platforms and I much prefer Lineal (Vertical). I've found that a quality platform elicits a rebalancing response equal to or better than that of pivotal machines without the strain caused to the pelvis by the large displacement range.

Are you a salesperson for Vibraflex? If not, why are you asking for proof scientific reports that might support other products performance against Galileo?
Can you please provide a study that supports your claim.

The first platform I ever designed was Pivotal. So I fully understand the differences inherent in each system.

The main point is all Lineal units can be used as Pivotal to a degree by simply only placing one foot on the Lineal plate and another on a stable platform .

A Pivotal unit can not do Lineal.


Saying that , I would recommend a purpose built Pivotal unit for most Physio practices.

Comparing systems is not good science.

Hello Destiny,

If you like GALILEO or any other pivotal / see-saw / tilting / toppling devices, it is your free choice.

In a open forum like this, it is your right to express your opinion. Let me give mine which is very different to yours.

Last Sunday, I tried GALILEO together with my colleague who is a sports physiotherapist. Our conclusion are, firstly & subjectively, we did not like the way it "shaked" us; secondly, we felt it has a potential to cause back muscle and pelvic joints injuries.

You claimed GALILEO could do what vertical vibration platform could do. This is not very true. For example, if I train in lunge position on a vertical vibration platform, I can train with different difficulty level by adjusting the amplitude. On a pivotal platform, you cannot play with amplitude UNLESS you change your position as well because on a pivotal platform, the wider to the sides the higher amplitude, the closer to the centre the smaller amplitude.

Also, I do not agree with your interpretation on "Science". Science is only a systematic format to quantifing experience. If someone has accumulated a lot of experience in a certain skill, someone's opinions on this particular field are already gospel. Human learnt Sun rises from the East by experience long before science told us about solar system and Earth orbits Sun. On the other hand, science and research can be twisted. Result of so-called scientific study can be designed "in favor of" or "against" something by playing with criteria. Argument is healthy and will lead us to the truth!

I agree GALILEO is probably the best of its kind (pivotal system). However, for total score, I would say a good quality lineal platform is better than pivotal type.

Readers do not need to believe by reading Destiny's or my comments. If any of you are interested in using this training technique or to buy a device, go out to try as many devices as you can and let your own body to tell you which is the best system for yourself.

At last but not least, for those home users, vibration training looks like a simple and easy way of exercises. A vibration training device no matter pivotal or lineal types, it can produce very strong load beyond your imagination. This form of physical exercise can do a lot good but it can also do harm. You need to understand how it works in order to achieve maximum effects and to minimize risk of injury. NEVER buy one home before receiving a proper education and training on it.

TC

Wow........three replies. Thanks to all of your opinions.

First, for Di, I'm not a salesperson from Vibraflex and are you a salesperson from non Vibraflex products? Anyway, the reasons that I'm asking for "proof scientific reports that might support other products performance against Vibraflex" is because I want to know "geniuely" the goods and bads of both sides from a scientific points of view. Isn't it the reasons for this forum to have reasonable "scientific" discussions rather than feelings?

My claims that it seems that "Vibraflex can do what the vertical equipment can do but NOT otherwise (assuming that NOT all researches are phoney)" is because when you compare the literatures posted on the vibraflex webpage and other vertical products webpages and you will see. I advice you to have checked out the websites first and all the researches first.

Next, for Lloyd, I agree that to certain extent comparing systems are not good science but if it shows that the pivotal system can do what the vertical system can do but not otherwise, does it mean that we should improve the vertical system into areas that so they can excel each others in their own areas? (Just a suggestion, only)

For TC, I'm not going to argue about the subjective feelings of "what" feels better or not because I've realized that the vertical system is NOT recommended to be trained with the two feet on because of the "shaking head" impact (this is my understanding.....)And interpretation of science can be hugely "subjective" as the schools of Philosophy would have agreed. But nevertheless, for the sake of argument, most people would have agreed that the grounds of "sound" scientific evidence is the key of winning the arguments, at least on this planet, so for the purpose of "total score", I will be so engligthen to see if any one of you can produce "any quality researches or studies that can prove that there are areas where the vertical vibration can outperform the Galileo system....."

Thanks everyone.

Cheers,

Destiny

Hi Destiny,

Yes, evidence speak all!

Evidence is the progress of our clients that we have seen through our own eyes. And we are using lineal platform in our centre.

Cheers!

TC

TC - I see you have a link to Fitvibe on another website. Are you a marketer?

Hi Destiny, No I'm not a salesperson for any Whole Body Vibration brand. I simply train on a vibration machine 3 times a week. I needed to be sure that what I would be using was a quality machine and that it was safe and would perform to specs. I went to 3 different brand studios and also looked at pivotal home use machines before deciding which one to use. I've spent many hours online investigating and visiting studios. The name of the studio I train at is Vibra-Train and it works so well for me that, yes, I am biased toward that brand and maybe some similar solid platform lineal machines. I have been able to talk to the designer of the machines who also designs the program to be used with them. I've been able to ask many questions.

I'm sure you can find the information you want online. You seem to have started with a premise that pivotal is better and now you want others to debate this. I have no desire to do this. I've looked into it and tried both types of platform and both have a use. But just as you prefer pivotal, I prefer Lineal. They are very different. It's not really a matter of which is best.They can have different uses. I use a Sports Training Machine. For Therapy some people might prefer a pivotal platform (although I would still the machines I use now).

Pivotal and Lineal machines.
When to use one , when to use the other. And why.

Now before I start I would like to point out these two systems should not ever be in competition with each other. It is purely a marketing war to do so. Not a science driven arguement.

I would also like to add I do not write the rules. I just report on them. If you do not like these rules I suggest you take up religion and make a complaint to someone slightly higher up the ladder than myself.

I am also about to try and compile a few million years of evolutionary theory into a small artical so for those of you more educated folk please forgive my generalised comments. With only the subject of " Workout " VS " Therapy " in relation to muscle movement patterns being discussed in this artical.

Lineal Design...

"Fight or Flight"

To understand this theory look at yourself in the mirror. Front and side on. Ask yourself a couple of questions.

Yes they may appear unrelated at first but bear with me , I will explain.

(a) Where are my eyes situated ?
(b) Where is my muscle mass on my body ?

You will of course find your eyes situated at the front of your skull. This will tell you we have binocular vision. AKA.. we have depth perception ( we can tell how far away something is ). This allows us to project an attack at an object with very good accuracy , suggesting we have evolved as a PREDATOR species.
This is very different than some animals like horses that can not. This is why they will jump over a puddle only an inch deep . They are not nervous about water , they just can not tell how deep the puddle is. They are PRAY animals where peripheral vision comes in very handy when something is trying to catch you from behind , and eat you . Unlike grass that does not run away .

General rule of evolution.

Eyes front of the head.... PREDATOR
Eyes side of the head ....... PRAY

So our body is a well developed for seeing an object , judging its distance running towards and catching it with enough force to kill it.

This would also come in handy if we had to " fight " for our lives. Which is why we automatically turn to face an attacker if surprised.

Running quickly at something by definition also gives us the ability to run away from something. That's where the " flight " part comes in.

Now for a quick experiment.

Get someone to push you from the front while you push back. Then get them to push you from the side while you try to again push back. You will notice the marked difference in the amount of energy it takes to push you around. From the front you have good all round ability to not only balance but also fight back. As opposed to the side where all your energy will be used just to keep balance.

This clearly shows us that the human body is well developed to absosb and produce large amounts of Lineal pressure. But a much lower degree of Pivotal can be handled.
When in contact with a Vibration Platform the body not only gets pushed , but it also pushes back. So a direct powerfull response will always be favoured for a " workout " type movement. As these larger muscles use up far more calories than any other exercise program in an involuntary reflex due to their shear size and cell mass.

Now to muscle placement....

The actual placement and size of muscles on our body also backs up this equation. As our muscles are placed in a Lineal fashion.
Take the legs for example , the Quad and Hamstring ( our "drive" muscles )being much larger by far than our Adductor muscles. Essentially meaning we can never run sideways as fast or as powerfull as we can forwards.

The moment we vary from the Lineal path before us , we expodentially lose power.

Pivotal Design....

The above theory in no way though displaces the importance on Pivotal movement , as this is the primary rebalancing response and without this our Lineal design would have a major flaw. Quite simply we would keep falling over.

Our " support " muscles must be kept in balance with our " drive " muscles or injury would be inevitable. As every time you tried to turn you would fall sideways. In fact all the smaller groups of muscles that make up our rebalancing responses are also responsable for holding our body together.
This is very apparent when athletes are clearly strong but a " minor " injury brings them down.

This type of weakness can also be responable for such things as incontinence or the more serious fall of an older person cased by pelvic instability. Which in some cases can lead to an early death due to blood clots in bone fractures.

The sideways action of a Pivotal machine is the most effective way of targ