Uh anti-semitic? Which semites are you talking about ? The arabs or the jews? The arabs are the largest semitic group in existence.

I agree, US should give back all the land to the Indians and the Israles give back the land to palastineans

how about this: US stops all aid to everyone, lets them kill each other WWII was the beginning of our charity and WWIII will be the end :)

Excellent article on the crisis and good defense of Israel. I am reading "Islam Unveiled" and it argues that Judaism and Christianity foster religious freedom while Islam does not.

If I were a Mexican who bought land in Texas on the border. Could I claim that this land now belongs to Mexico? Similarly if Palestinians built all of the above in Ramallah, got their money back from Arafat's wife, prospered and got rich and bought some land from Israil. Would Israil be willing to consider that land as part of Palestine? Would Palestinians have sold their lands had they known that Israil would be built on it? You get my point.

This article sums it up about right. The past is over and gone: if you or your family gave up a position to (what turned out to be) unfavorable terms, get over it and go on. Every one of us has made a bad deal and suffered greatly, but as adults we know that we don't get a "do over". Only the most spoiled and deluded person can believe otherwise.

Jews have longed for Israil for 2000 years (I respect that). Those who came back are now enjoying a "do over". But by the same account (not my account) they must have been of the most "spoiled" and "deluded" of people.

About why US supports Israel so much -- I don't agree with the author's point that it is about Israel's democracy alone. If US is so much of "champion of democracy all over the place", why don't they recognize Hamas government in Palestine, which was democratically elected? Or why don't they accept the fact that Hezbollah's representation in Lebanese government is through democratic route? The point is, US only believes in its own brand of democracy, which we all know doesn't work everywhere (case in point: Iraq!).

Even though Jews make up less than 4% of US population, the fact is, they are very powerful in the sense that they get to shape the middle-east policy of United States. They occupy important positions in US politics, business, and media. To me, that is the real reason why US sucks up so much to the Israelis. It's not just about Israeli democracy (which, I must agree, is way better than what all these Arab countries have!) .

"Maybe we Americans should all give up our houses to the Native Americans. Aren't we all occupiers in a sense? They lived here first and this was their land"

There's one big difference: The Palestinians were actually forced out of their lands and have not been allowed to return. Read, people, READ about the history of this. The Israelis have done everything to isolate the Arabs (withholding water, for example). It's a not-so-subtle form of racism, in my opinion.

If someone gives you something that wasn't theirs to begin with, does that make it yours? Of course not. When the British gave the lands to the Jews, it was from the basis of colonialism, and thus was not theirs to give. Now, Israel is a money laundering machine that gives U.S. taxpayer dollars to Israel and in return they line the pockets of American arms manufacturers who profit from the never-ending destruction of a people.

I'm not at all saying that I agree with the hard liners who are saying that all Jews should leave or that Israel should be anything other than a polyglot society, but Israeli politicians have a LOT to answer for, and there is a lot they could do much differently.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab
population." -- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten
with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." -- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister

"Uh anti-semitic? Which semites are you talking about ? The arabs or the jews? The arabs are the largest semitic group in existence."

The term, anti-semitism, refers to the Jews only, not the Semitic linguistic family, which includes Arabs. Why confuse the issue?

"and the new owners have improved it"

Classic argument for colonialism. No one denigrates the people, culture, and landscape of the middle east more than the ones who would forcefully occupy it. Also, none of these arguments make the murder of innocent Lebanese people okay (no, not even the argument about innocent Israelis dying in lesser numbers, not even a persecution complex that makes these attacks seem proportionate).

Nowhere in my blog does it say the anyones murder is acceptable or condonable, least of all innocent lebanese, israelis or palestinians. It does say however, that the government in any country should be accountable. Ie; If our current regime is doing things in Iraq or the rest of the world and we sit idly by and do nothing, we have no one to blame but ourselves for the ultimate outcome. Our country is being held hostage by right wing, corporate minded, Bible thumpers the same way the beautiful people of Lebanon are being held hostage by Hezbollah. The Palestinian people are also being held hostage to Hamas and their campaign of misinformation and IMO, the entire islamic world is being held hostage to an idealogy that condones murder and suicide. Subsequently, the rest of the world is also held hostage to fear and worst of all, indifference.

I am proposing a SOLUTION in my blog which is that the palestinian people could become a viable economy and a formidable opponont if they would only reject the ideology of suicide and put that energy into their own community survival.

WHAT SOLUTIONS ARE YOU SUGGESTING?

Apart from the comments written by Ashok and Kal, there are some other things which the author has not mentioned.

Israel has many Palestinian women and children in their jails(their release was a demand by the militant outfit which kidnapped the 2 Israeli soldiers), who do not have access to the fair proceeds of law. Besides, Israel has time and again openly said(and showed) that it does not care for any foreign civilians, when it is defending itself. The latest is the prime minister Ehud Olmert saying(shown on BBC World) that all he cares is about Jewish people and wouldn't care to distinguish between militants and Lebanese civilians. This is policy and cannot be condoned as a mistake that Israel makes.

As far as the grandfather-owned building comparison is concerned, Palestinians do not have access to the Israeli resources(unlike native Americans in the US) and do not even get the rights which Israel gives to its citizens(justice for Israel's destruction of homes, loss of life). The comparison is incorrect.

i like this article - but we are not looking at the big picture - there seems to be a certain hidden agenda and it clearly seems like its coming from muslim extremists - the palestinians and others are just used to gain from this - why the sudden atacks on Israel just before the G8 - we need to focus on the big seen for sure.

Candye,

It is not enough to visit here to comprehend the issues here. You are a good woman with her heart in the right place, but you are terribly misinformed about reality here.

The reality is very simple. It is the aim of the Arabs to extirpate us from our homes entirely. Many, particularly the ones under the influence of Hamas or other groups that have their roots in the Wahhabi rebels who have seized Islam, HizbAllah and the Shia have as their goal, the extermination of the Jewish people - all of us. Their attitude is simple - if you are not a Moslem, you are not.

Once you comprehend who the human actors are, and what their roots are, you suddenly realize that "Palestine" is nothing but a fiction to sell a lie, like Santa Claus is a fiction to sell toys.

Martin Schlaf, an Austrian millionaire, has the right to build ca$inos in the areas controlled by the "Palestinian" Authority. The last time there was a ca$ino - in Jericho - the profits were divided by a bunch of Israeli politicians and the then Raïs, Yassir Arafat.

Do you want to make these kind of scum rich with a ca$ino?

Candye,

When you have time, look up Martin Schlaf and discover what evil people I'm telling you about.

If Palestinians do not have access to Israeli resources, blowing up tourists at Sbarro pizza restaurants and college kids in the Frank Sinatra cafeteria at the Hebrew University will certainly NOT gain them access. Furthermore, in 1948, Jews came home to Israel where they had lived for centuries prior, with little more than steely determination. They used guts, brains and ingenuity to irrigate the land, plant produce, and build a nation. They built and created their own resources. They didnt force anyone off any land. They purchased land from willing participants.

The palestinians have been used and exploited by their own government and terrorist organizations, that much is clear. What isnt clear is why palestinians, the arab nations and people like AR and Kal, are content to blame others for their problems instead of doing something about it? Again, my blog was just one provocative solution to a huge problem.

As far as palestinian children and women being jailed, this is a separate issue. There are people unjustly jailed here in the usa and worldwide. Again, if Palestine were a viable economic force to be reckoned with, they could use economic means and diplomacy to gain access to their prisoners. However, if these people have commited crimes, which is likely if they are still in jail, maybe they belong there. If I break a law in a foreign country, I might end up in jail, unable to get access to lawyers from my country. Thats a chance I take if I break the law anywhere. Innocent people are killed in suicide bombings all over the place in what unfortunately seems to becoming an epidemic. They are not given due process either. I would rather be sitting in an israeli jail than blown up at a bus stop. Thats just my personal preference. Clearly, many militants are willing to blow themselves up for all kinds of causes. These people belong in jails or mental hospitals where they cant hurt themselves or others.

Kidnapping soldiers and trying to use them as barter to negotiate prisoners out of jails is like taking the local market hostage until they give you free groceries for life. Its not going to work. EVER.

And one quick answer to ashok, Israel and the USA wont recognize Hamas because Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations who vow to kill all Jews period. I guess you can also describe George Bush as "democratically elected" but there are those who disagree with that assessment. Hamas, however, can hardly be described as "democratically elected," when the people who voted live in tent cities and are given no real empowerment or education. Their former leader Arafat, did nothing for them and now Hamas will do nothing for them. Hamas doesnt want to educate the palestinian people or better their status or lot in life. They want to continue a cycle of violence until all Jews are driven into the sea. Nothing democratic about that.

I fully support and endorse israel's offensive against hezbollah(lebanon).Arab countries still live in the dark middle ages.They are only interested in jihad(not in the welfare of their people).If not for oil they would have been worse than africa.Hezbollah and hamas are terrorist outfits they target iinocent civilians so it is neccessary to put an end to these outfits.Muslims are not saints they happily kill people of other religions but when their own die they cry foul.As you sow you shall reap.

The Arab nation is to blame for all the killings and destructions in Lebanon and Palestine by the nation of Israel. As long as they refuse to recognise Israel sovereignty, the end of this problem may not be at sight at the moment. Israel is a nation and she deserves that respect. The present situation in the middle east is created by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran to divert attention from his nuclear weapon activity,I believe it is not going to escalate into a world war 111 as generally feared. Iran and Syria would not want to make the grave mistake of attacking Israel because they know that will be very regretable on their part.

It's innaccurate to say it's the 'arab nation', because Iran is not an arab nation at all. What would be correct is to say that it's the work of radical Islam, since that's the one thing they all have in common.

Dave

Sons and daughters of Abraham, your Patriarch wails in the wilderness, mourning the blood spilled upon the Holy Lands. This is not how it should have come to pass. A handful of fanatical despots over the years from temples to mosques and the Christian churches in between, have held dominion over the masses. Has this been done to serve God or Allah? Hells, no! Wake up, Lemmings. Scripture is not being fulfilled at God's hand. Quite the contrary.

big picture remain - not just the jews but all the non muslims - is a must go.
maybe nostradamus was right - 3rd world war is here

In a gallows-humor way, I think it's highly amusing that, having started the war by kidnapping Israeli soldiers, Syria is now in the forefront of whining about needing outsiders to come to the rescue to save the "innocent" Lebanese from Israeli brutality & over-reaction. 'Scuse me? Who started it? If Lebanon (read: Syria) really wants a cease-fire so bad, where are those soldiers? Part of the blame lies squarely with all those "innocent" Lebanese, most of whom support Hezbollah, which in turn is just an attack dog for Syria & (thru Syria) for Iran, the ultimate puppetmaster here. I'm quite sure if Hezbollah were getting the better of the beating, there would be no crying or demanding of cease-fires, by anyone except perhaps the US. Hmph. They started it, but they can't take their own BS. Tough. As for the "innocent" population, when they stop supporting terrorist groups openly sponsored by alien states like Syria & Iran, then I'll maybe cry for their losses.

Meanwhile, I continue to marvel at the persistant stupidity of the arab/muslim groups who carry out kidnappings. 70+ years of kidnappings, they KNOW no western nation will negotiate with kidnappers because in all that time, none have, yet they still continue with this very non-productive activity, apparently in hopes that this time they'll get a hearing? I admire stubbornness, but not when it gets into an inability to learn anything from past experience, especially 70 years' worth. I can only conclude therefore, that arabs/muslims are incredibly resistant to learning anything involving common sense. Personally, I doubt Hezbollah CAN give those soldiers back. I don't think they're alive anymore, and haven't been for some time. In the meantime, it would be nice if someone would dump something in the water so none of them could breed anymore in the future. That would definitely engender peace in a generation or so.

I like this article. there is good thinking here around issues although with an american/jewish tilt and perspective.

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other comments

occupied territories = indian reservations = bantustans (south africa)

historically there have always been churches and synagogies in muslim lands. It is only after the creation of israel and the following atrocities that life for jews in muslim countries, esp after the inftifada became difficult, because of the bad publicity and complicity of the british - the colonial occupiers. hence the continuation of "occupation" by arab regimes and especially the israeli one to top all the rest - a decracy to oppress dictatorships! and minorities within.

Churches have always been there in muslim lands.

in fact some of the most tolerant societies for jews and christians have been under muslim governance such as in jerusalem, whereas the crusaders are notorious for massscreing all the jews of jerusalem, or isabella an ferdinand in spain. no doubt there have also been bad examples. The record of jews and christians comparatively is terrible.

people blow up things only when there are genuine problems. one should look at underlying reasons to defuse the violence exploding on the surface.

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Candye, I'm no big fan of either Hezbollah or Hamas killing/kidnapping civilians in Israel. And by that, I also mean I am no big fan of Israel killing arab civilians in Palestine or Lebanaon. The life of an innocent person is equally precious, no matter which side of the border they are on, period.

Now, you said Israel or US will never recognize these two organzations. You chose the word "terrorist" to describe them, but there are lot of people out there who see them as legit resistance movements (just like there are people who see/do not see George W. as a democratically elected leader in US).

The point I am trying to make here is, once these organizations are elected by the people in Palestine or Lebabon in a democratic process, US and Israel should have engaged them in a dialogue, if they had even a scant respect for democratic wishes of people that don't necessarily agree with them. People chose those organizations to represent their government because the existing leaders failed them, and Hamand/Hezbollah have used it for their advantage. Instead, what US and Israel did was to squeeze their governments to near bankruptcy, and in that process, just played into the hands of the hardliners in Hamas and Hezbollah.

US and Israel should start dealing with this menace as more of a socio-economic problem, if they are really serious about solving this. Help the Palestines and Lebanese people build a real economy, help them channel their energies in that, rather than blasting themselves up. Whether US and Israel like it or not, that's what they have to do to solve this problem once for all.

At the moment, they are doing exactly the opposite of it. If you continue to treat this as just a military problem, there WILL BE NO END to what we are seeing right now. Hundreds of thousands of Lebanese people are now pissed off with what happened to their lives in the past 2,3 weeks -- I'm sure Hezbollah will be able to recruit at least a thousand of those to be prospective suicide bombers or whatever! And do you think that leaves Israel any safer than they are right now??

Fifty or hundread years down the line, you would still be looking at the same problem, perhaps with different actors on both sides. The basic problem will still remain, unless there is a fundamental change of attitude from US and Israel. These two being the most powerful and influencial players in the conflict, it is in their best interest to take the initiative.

Why only call on Israel and the U.S. to help economically develop the Palestinians? Why absolve the oil-wealthy Arab states and oil-wealthy Iran from all responsibility?

Poverty among the Palestinians would not be nearly so grinding if all the oil money spent on rockets and suicide bombs for Hezbollah and Hamas had instead been spent on developing a thriving Palestinian economy.

Why continue pretending the only people who could possibly help the Palestinians are the Israelis and the Americans?

historically there have always been churches and synagogies in muslim lands. It is only after the creation of israel and the following atrocities that life for jews in muslim countries, esp after the inftifada became difficult, because of the bad publicity and complicity of the british - the colonial occupiers. hence the continuation of "occupation" by arab regimes and especially the israeli one to top all the rest - a decracy to oppress dictatorships! and minorities within.

Churches have always been there in muslim lands.

in fact some of the most tolerant societies for jews and christians have been under muslim governance such as in jerusalem, whereas the crusaders are notorious for massscreing all the jews of jerusalem, or isabella an ferdinand in spain. no doubt there have also been bad examples. The record of jews and christians comparatively is terrible.

people blow up things only when there are genuine problems. one should look at underlying reasons to defuse the violence exploding on the surface.


Gazelle,
where did you get such tremendous misinformation? I suggest reading "Anti-semitism; A History Portrayed" published by the Anne Frank Foundation.
Since the Roman age, and as early as the year 70, there was anti semitism against Jews and their monotheist beliefs. One of the antisemitic themes heard repeatedly was that Jews worshipped donkeys and murdered children to use their blood to make matzah. The first recorded pogrom of anti Jewish violence took place in Alexandria in 38 A.D. The arrival of Herod Agrippa was the provocation. The Jews were declared to be foreigners and intruders. They were forced to leave their homes and shops and were driven together in one section where they were beaten to death and thrown into bonfires.

You are right that with the spread of christianity, things got worse for the Jews. By 313 AD, the Romans adopted all sorts of mandates to repress, censure and destroy Jews and Jewish communities who were accused of having murdered GOd and being children of the devil.

In the seventh century, Mohammed developed his own arabian version of monotheism. When Jews rejected his version, he declared Jihad against them. During the Islamic conquest of Arabia, North Africa, Asia Minor and Spain, Christians and Jews were subjected to the rules of dhimma; in return for large sumes of money for protection and special taxes , they were allowed to live in the world of islam in degradation and insecurity.

Mohammad attributed the Jews refusal to accept him as the true prophet of God to their "vicious obstinancy." In 720, Umar b. al-Khatab gave provincial instructions that the dhimmi's (jews and christians) would be "required to shave off their hair, wear lead or iron seals around their necks, disembark from their mules or horses when a muslim was present, look only at the feet of the muslim as he passed and to bind distinctive girdles around their waists so they could be distinguished from the moslems."

In 807, Caliph Haroen al-Rashid intoduced separate living quarters, mellah, and the wearing of a yellow badge. In 850, Caliph Al-Mutawkkil ordered the destruction of all the houses of worship built after the coming of Islam and the confiscation of one tenth of the houses. All the large buildings were rebuilt into mosques.

Al Jahiz, an early Arab author, observed in the ninth century that the Moslems looked down on the Jews more than Christians and therefore Jews deserved more punsihment. According to Al-Jahiz, this attitude was determined by the low economic and social status of the Jews; "The Jews heresy is the greatest of all since they are the filthiest of nations."

This anti semtism and blatant hatred of Jews worsened of course, during the years of the Crusades in 1096 and through out the middle ages.

As for your final comment that "people only blow things up when there are genuine problems" how do you explain Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi and their non-violent approach to oppressive circumstances? How do you explain the hundreds of other revolutions and protests that are performed throughout history without using the suicide bomb?

PLEASE DO SOME MORE READING ON THIS SUBJECT BEFORE YOU SPREAD ANYMORE MISONFORMATION.

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I agree with Victor. It is the responsibility of every party involved (directly or otherwise) to help Pqlestineans and Lebanese build a viable economy. But when I said US and Israel take the initiative, that was because these two are the countries that end up suffering the most if the problem is not solved. It is in their best interest to show willingness to do something different. I mean, Israel (and by extension, US) must have been spending billions of dollars of tax payers' money in the current war -- at least part of that money could have been used to build a proper economy in Palestine or Lebanon over the next few years, don't you think? It's the same argument that you used against Hezbollah and Hamas.

I am not really trying to take sides here. I am neither a Jew nor an Arab muslim. But, as an outsider, it baffles me that none of the parties are willing to do something different to resolve the crisis, especially when the current policies, pursued over the last 60 years or so, haven't been that much successful.

I also agree with victor and ashok that new thinking needs to be utilized to solve this problem, if there really is such a solution. I dont agree that Israel or the USA should be spending money to build proper economies in palestine and lebanon. It is these countries responsibilities to elect officials who will spend the money on their respective countries and not line their own pockets with riches while blaming others for their misfortune. My whole blog was about how the palestinian authority was given millions and arafat became rich while his people starved.
As long as suicide bombing is part of the protest idealogy, this problem can never be solved.

if Condi Rice is half the Women everyone says she is she should start negotiations by asking that everyone give back any hostages that they have taken ( so the three soldiers go back to their homes in the plush suburbs of occupied palestine...sorry i forgot we are now all calling it Isreal and the thousands of men, women and children held by the Isreali's can go back to their families.)

Please condi make things happen, dont go over there at tax payers expence and talk the same bu**sh*t that so often comes out ure mouth.

give more money to these groups or so called ellected groups. its been done so many times its a joke. everytime there is some peace plane the poor palestinians and others ask for money to rebuild and what do they do - they re arm and the leaders become well travelled media jokers. come on - this time it must be stamped out at the root - Syria and Iran - we all know it.

CK :

you quote but without source extremely biased info, which needs serious correction.

I suggest you expose yourself to somewhat neutral rather than incriminating history.

just try wikipedia articles for starters...

~ Islam & Judaism

~ Islam & other religions

~ History of the Jews in Muslim Lands
....[eg see spain, ottomans ... ]


PS: The jews were not persecuted by all, always, as the succession roman, christian, muslim in your quote implies. in this regard, the anne frank foundation is not a reliable historical source for this subject.

Also in #16 you do not mention that palestinians were dispossessed of land by the incoming jews, and many of whom are still in refugee camps after 50 years.

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